TrueLife - Journey with the modern day Troubadours “Clowns Without Borders” El Salvador

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Modern day Troubadours Jed & Naomi take us on this modern day movement to spread warmth, love, & joy to migrants, displaced children, and everyone in need of a good laugh.http://www.jedlie.com/https://clownswithoutborders.org/http://linkedin.com/in/jed-doherty-70b3877 One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Fearist through ruins maze lights my war cry born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. It's Friday. The sun is shining. The birds are singing.

I hope the wind is at your back. I got a tremendous show for you today. An impressive show about modern-age troubadours, traveling the world, bringing laughter and sunshine to people who need it the most. Clowns Without Borders. Jed Lee and Naomi, I'm going to kick it out to you right now, Jed and Naomi, to maybe give us a little bit of background. Maybe we'll start with you, Jed. Maybe you can talk a little bit about who you are and what the mission is here today. Well, I, first of, I certainly am not an expert in Clowns Without Borders.

that is why I'm so happy that my boss clown, Naomi, is here with me today. I will tell you that I've been performing as a clown magician for over 35 years, and probably about 25 years ago, I was working at a fair up in Vermont, beautiful fair, and I was sharing the stage with another artist named Hoopo. And Hoopo and I had a great time that week. You know, I'd do my show, he'd do his show, we'd help each other on and off the stage, stage and his daughter was there, my kids were there. And it was just wonderful. A lot of times performers, you never meet someone before and then suddenly you're sharing a stage and you're like

your best buddies in five minutes. And that's, you know, kind of what happened. And he was telling me, he was part of Clowns Without Borders and he was, tell me a little bit about it. And it seemed like a fantastic mission and idea. But at that moment in my life with two young kids, a beautiful wife, that week, we were purchasing a home. I had to leave the fair, like immediately after my last show ended, I had to jump on my car and drive back to Boston, the signed papers to buy the beautiful home that we're living in right now. It wasn't something that I could pursue at that point in my life. Things are a lot different right now. My kids are grown. my beautiful wife retired a couple of years ago.

We've been very blessed. And I thought, maybe now is the time. So I reached out to Naomi and I said, hey, I think I'd like to be part of this neat little mission that you guys have. And I was very excited that she said, yeah. And I am about to leave on my first tour with Clowns Without Borders down to El Salvador. And I am beyond excited and grateful. And I'm learning a little bit about the organization. And it is just such an impressive organization.

And it is so impressive and important that I am not going to try to tell you that we have an expert here who can share that information with us. So I'm going to sit back and let my boss clown do her thing. Naomi, tell us all about it. Like, how was this idea conceived? Eve, what's going on over there? Oh, my gosh. So the story was conceived in, or the idea in 1993. And one of my favorite things about Clowns Without Borders is it's actually the idea of children,

like most good ideas. This started when kids at a school in Spain were pen pals with children in a refugee camp in Croatia during the or right after the Serbo-Croatian war. And, you know, the kids in Spain, you know, had sort of said like, hey, what's your life like? Are you okay? And these young refugees said, you know, we're safe now. We have food.

We, you know, we have shelter. But what we really miss is laughter. And these kids in Spain were like, oh, well, we have a great idea. we're going to send you a clown. And the kids in Spain were lucky enough to live in the same town as Tortel Poltrona, who's this incredible clown in Spain. He was, for a long time, a TV personality. Also, and circus, he's a circus performer.

And these kids said, Tortel, you have to go. You have to go to Croatia and perform. And he did. And so that's the beginning, the middle and the end of it, right? Is listen to kids. They have great ideas. Be invited. And, you know, as long as people keep asking and saying, yeah, you know what, we're in this hard situation.

But what we really want is to have that full part of our humanity of laughing and being in community together. then Clowns Without Borders keeps on going. So that's, yeah, our mission is to share laughter, a moment, a moment of joy, and also a moment of awe. I think about it as offering a moment to gather and to share an experience other than the displacement or the tragedy or the crisis that a community is in. I'm curious, do we have any idea as to how many people are experiencing this kind of life? How many people might be in refugee camps at this moment? Oh, no.

I just started with the hopeful piece. And now, so unfortunately, displacement, a lot of times when I say refugee camp or displacement, we think tents and we think short term. But unfortunately, while that may have been true 25 years ago or 30 years ago when clownsdale borders started, now unfortunately people become displaced and often stay displaced. So last year we crossed over to over 100 million forcibly displaced people in the world. And so that's people who are displaced because of war, because of socioeconomic reasons. They're increasingly, you know, an increasing population of people who are displaced because of environmental disaster and, and then also indigenous people who are displaced.

So, yes, unfortunately, I do, I do know that number. And I also know and believe that, you know, where so many resources are scarce, laughter, a sense of self, a sense of having one's own culture, those aren't, those aren't bound or limited by any physical goods. Those can exist regardless of how many visas there are or are not. This brings up a good point. I think I'm back here. You're back. Yes, I'm so stoked. Thank you for your patience. It's in some ways, it's both beautiful. and heartbreaking. And it seems to me that that is where the human spirit lies. Here's a question that maybe I can shoot off to you, name it only. And that is, when you think

about laughter, can laughter and wonder transcend language barriers and cultural differences? And how do you plan to connect with the children at the performances? So, yes, laughter and language. I mean, if you think about it, I don't know if you've ever spent time with a baby, but like babies. tease and they're really good clowns because they'll do something to get a laugh and then when they get a laugh, they'll do it again and they will do it again and again and again and again and again and and they'll do it until you stop laughing. And I think clowns are really similar to that like teasing baby, right? We're like, I will do this until you stop laughing and maybe even a little longer

after you have stopped laughing. But I think that in so many ways, humor and the core human experiences of joy and sadness and frustration, we can tell so many stories physically or vocally without language. You know, if I come on stage and get stuck in an imaginary, you know, pool of cement, it's very, clear what's happening that I'm stuck and, you know, and then I can go through my full range of emotions about it and the audience absolutely knows what's going on or Jed comes up behind me and takes my hat and I can't find my hat or him. Everyone in the audience will be shouting, he's over there, he's over there and we can have a long chase scene, you know, of me.

not knowing and the audience knowing best. And so it's wonderful to me. You know, when you talk about a skit about being stuck somewhere, does that play, like, does that go into the setup of it? Like on some level, you're going to a place where people may feel stuck. And then you come out and you do this skit and you make light of it. And in some way, you're communicating to them, not only through laughter, but through actions, like, hey, part of life is getting stuck,

but that you can find a way to find the beauty. beauty in it. Is that something that goes into the way you're thinking about setting up the skits? Yes. And often those pieces of, you know, the most basic stories is, I have something and you want it. And that can play in so many ways or to play with these power dynamics. And that's something that we that we talk about as a team because, of course, we as Clans Without Borders are arriving with with tickets to leave, you know, with a huge amount of privilege. And so it's, it's about finding ways to tell, to tell those stories, but also to sort of shift the dynamic, because it's really different. And I, if I just come in and kind of do a virtuoso juggling act,

that's not something I can do. You know, and it's, it's not about, hey, look at this cool thing I can do, but about finding that common humanity. And so, yeah, stories of travel, of being new to a place, stories of being stuck, of one person having something. There are places where we will truly play with putting a rope on the ground and doing sort of like a border crossing. You know, and it's all mostly without language, it's pretty metaphoric, but also, yeah, lets people tap in. And I think laughter is often the easiest way to tap in. But then we invite people to go through all the other emotions that the clown goes on, into the sense of sadness, the sense of frustration, the sense of, oh, okay, now I have to try this again.

You know, I'm often reminded there's that famous picture of like one clown crying and one cloud, like one clown laughing. And it seems to me sadness and humor are really connected in some way. Sometimes we cry so, we laugh so hard that we cry. Like what, what's going on with that dynamic there? And how do you use that? A big piece of it is cracking the door open for emotion, right? And when we think about trauma especially, kind of. trauma is about being, kind of being trapped in the past, right?

It's a shutting down, a feeling of closed off. And laughter is very much about being in the present. And in some ways, tears are also, right? Tears and laughter are both the kind of antithesis of that freeze motion. And so, and they're so big, right, that they kind of take over. You can't laugh without breathing. And also, you know, unless something is only a little funny, you can't really control it in the same way as when you're really crying. Yeah, I think that's the connection, right?

And those huge emotions that take over and aren't just in the emotional realm but have such a big physical counterpart. I love it. That's a wonderful answer. It's so amazing how, whether you call it the spirit or you call it emotions, but there's this thing bigger than all of us that we're part of and we can connect to it. And I can feel your sadness or I can feel your laughter. And like, it's so beautiful to think about the way we can move between and through emotions and actually feel what someone else is trying to convey to us in some ways. You know, Jedley, let me ask you this. I know I've seen some videos of some of the things you've do and I've listened to some podcasts.

What is one of the most profound or unexpected reactions you've ever received from a child during one of your shows? And how did it impact you? Well, the most amazing, unexpected thing, and I didn't know is unexpected at the time. I had a young girl up on stage when I invited her to come up on stage and her teachers saw who I invited on stage. The teachers kind of freaked out. and she came up on stage and I said, hey, what's your name? And she didn't answer me. And I said, this is a, there's a community with a large Hispanic population.

So I asked her her name in Spanish. She still didn't answer. And I said, oh, you must be nervous. Don't worry about a thing. All these kids here, they love you. Could you all please give my friend a nice round of applause and welcome her to the stage? And at that point, I heard, my nomads Maria. And so me and Maria did this magic trick.

We were talking, I was trying to speak to her in Spanish, speak to the audience in English. I didn't realize at the time until after the show, when her teacher came back into the auditorium with Maria and teachers, I didn't know that Maria was a girl with autism and had been mute, had been silent, that she had been in the school for two years and she hadn't set a word to anybody in any language. until she was on stage in front of 1,800 kids. And that was certainly unexpected. Yeah. But it was amazing and it was beautiful.

And I remember people there turning to me and said, how did you do that? And I said, I had no, I didn't do anything. This was just the kids made her feel welcome. You guys allowed her to come up on stage and try something. She wanted to try something. I was just there. You know, it was something that happened around me. And it was an amazing honor.

And it reminded me at a very early time in my career that what Naomi and I do on stage is a real privilege. It's a gift that we can have a tremendous impact on people's lives. Even if it's, I was going to say, even if it's just bringing a smile to their face. And a lot of moments, a lot of instances bringing us not to somebody's face is pretty huge. Yeah, that brings a tear to my eye. Sometimes the magic that can happen when we're just in a group or there's, it reminds me of like that pebble in the pond. Like bringing someone up on stage is like throwing that pebble. But then the waves that radiate from that impact, like the smile that their parents must have had or the way the other children felt or the teachers.

Are you telling me the story today and having rippling effect to all the people listening? It truly is a magic time out of him. Naomi, is there a special event that you can remember that kind of took your breath away? Well, in some ways, that story that Deadly just told is when he told me that story when we were talking about if he was a good fit,

and that was kind of my moment of being like, oh, yes, you really understand this. And so much of the work of CWB is having, you know, having those great childhood moments. And ideally, every child is having so many of those that they lose track, right? I think back to my childhood and I'm like, oh, there are a few. And I do remember one incredible clown show I saw as a kid. And I know, you know, my life was full of so many great moments that I've forgotten. But as performers, as educators, as people around kids, we never know which are going to be the ones

that stick for better or for worse. And so that's just a big piece of why we do what we do, hoping, you know, hoping we create that moment. One that really sticks out for me is arriving in a town in Haiti that I had been the year before and it was sort of following two different hurricanes and I got out of the car and was greeted by these two kids who came running over and recognized me from the year before. And then they performed my act from the year before. And it was this incredible moment of just seeing, oh, yeah, this is the impact.

It's not, you're like, okay, sure, we're there, we do a 45-minute show, we stay another 45 minutes playing and interacting. But the real learning, the real sort of development and healing happens after we leave and kids say, here's how I'm going to make this my own. And I think that's especially the magic of clowns is, right, like training for years to. to make something look easy and to give that impression so this six-year-old can see what I do and have this idea of, oh, I can do that. She's just a sort of dumb, clumsy adult. I can do it better. And that piece that they had spent this year replaying the scene, making it new and making it their own.

And that's the real goal of a Clowns Without Border show is to do all of this work, to get the performers there, to get the audience there, to do the show, and then to leave with this sense of the focus shifting back to the community so that then they're the ones who are sharing stories with each other, or then it's the kids who are becoming the stars. And so I put that one, I was very glad I had a new act for that year. Wow. It speaks to the idea of healing as contagious.

You know, in some ways, like you go down and you, the same way we catch colds from people, maybe we can catch laughter from people. It seems like it's something that continues to go forward. It's kind of an interesting idea. What do you two think about healing and laughter as contagious? Well, I think certainly being able to look at something in a positive way, you know, can, I just finished reading a book about that whole thing. Psychologists looked at the placebo effect and it's like, yeah, this really works.

If some things positively, they can take a sugar pill and then heal themselves. I think it makes total sense that if you're with a group of people and people are positive, in a certain situation, they're going to, they're more likely to find a way out of it and to find healing and, and, and, and fellowship. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a fantastic idea to think about. And I, it's wonderful to think about being able to spread joy to people who may not even speak the same language or what about, Naomi, do you feel that, or do you believe that comedy and magic have the power to inspire creativity and young minds facing adversity in countries

you've never been to? I do. And some of that isn't to be part of the healing. It's, you know, hope matters. I wish I had that. I'm not like, you know, tomorrow at 3 a.m. I'll be like, here's the name of that study I meant to cite. But for now, we'll put it in the show.

show notes, you know, these studies around the difference of outcomes for for surgical patients and sort of that hope matters, a sense of agency, a sense of safety, those pieces matter. And so often that comes, I think, from hope, from a sense of being seen and being heard. And we know that children across any, you know, demographic are often, often don't have that agency, right? Or often aren't heard. And especially in places where kids are in a challenging circumstance and know that, oh, I'm rambling.

I'll tell a story. Last year, I was in Iraqi Kurdistan and we were performing. for Iranian Kurds who had been displaced for generations. So at this point, it's children who've been born in these camps. And they are stateless, which means they don't have papers. So there's one of the big issues for the youth is this feeling of hopelessness, right? This feeling of, okay, I can do as well as I can do in school, but then there's no way to go because I don't have documents.

I don't have opportunities. And there had been a few examples of a girl who had been on a sports team at her high school. And the team did really well. They were invited to go to do a big championship. And she couldn't go because she couldn't do that. travel. And after the show, we heard from a few kids, oh, now I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to become a clown. And not that we're necessarily inspiring awesome economic opportunities for young people, but I think, again, that piece of seeing something and in a performance

in a clown show, you can see a direct impact, right? That moment of, of, whoa, this person is laughing. Oh my gosh, that person who I don't normally hear laugh or the person who I don't normally see play is now playing. And that can be really inspiring as both a performer and an audience member. Yeah, that's a beautiful answer. It seems that laughter is what generates the resilience in the face of adversity. Because some people walk right up to that door of adversity

and they're afraid to even touch the door handle and they may never even walk through it, but if you can have the courage to laugh and realize, what's the worst they can happen? You know, and you can find something beautiful about it or something comical about it, or you can just associate it with a smile.

Now you have the courage to at least grab the handle. And then you have the courage to open it up and then the courage to kind of walk through. But it's wonderful to think about the way in which laughter and humor can overcome adversity in places that we've never been before. Another question I was thinking about is, in what ways can the principles of comedy and magic be applied to life itself, offering lessons of adaptability and finding joy in unexpected places?

Wow. I didn't expect this is like this like PhD level conversation. You guys are travel in the world, though. Like you see both of you see things that no one has before. And I think these are important. I think that you're really finding ways. to connect with people and you're good at it. Well, I think one of the things, certainly that magic does and certainly that humor can do is just inspire the possibility. You know, when I, when kids, when there's a kid up on stage with me and I say that, you know, there's an invisible egg right over your head.

Can you see it? And you say, no, well, that's great. It's invisible. but take it down and feel it. And then that child is able to actually make that egg appear because of what they do. And the audience sees the egg appear. Boom.

It's funny. It's fun, but it's also inspiring. And even the kids, even the teachers, the people in the audience sitting back going, oh, that's just a trick. The clown did that. And there's a way, there's a secret. I don't know.

but I know that that's not real magic. But it's getting people to think. You know, I hear this all the time when I'm going to an inner city school and it's a middle school. And, you know, teachers like, oh, no, you got to watch out of these kids. And at the end of the show, they're like, I can't believe these kids. They were like, you know, kids again. It was great to see. It's like opening up that part of their mind.

Yeah. It gives them hope. that lets them kind of shed all the nonsense. They feel that they, all the armor they think that they have to have on to protect themselves in the world. I think the humor and magic kind of lets them kind of sit back and relax and say, yeah, I think you can make it better. It's a great point because it seems to me that a lot of the people, like if you're going to a place that may have a war-torn area, poverty, or it has all these crises,

on some level, that forces just to grow up. George, we've lost your audio again. Oh, no. Oh, now you're back. Okay. I'm looking at what I think you've said, which is when we're in places that have so often been defined by violence and conflict, what does it mean to go in and offer laughter?

Was that more or less? Yes. Okay. We'll give me a more versus, less. There's an expression in comedy of no comedy without conflict. And this idea that if we're just agreeing, we're just agreeing, we're just agreeing, there's no comedy. We need some sort of tension. And, you know, often we're going into places where conflict is high. Conflict is what's been experienced. And I think about, but then also that feeling of when

when a place or a community, a whole population or country gets defined by the conflict. And how do we balance that? When we were on the beaches of Lesvos Greece in 2016, we were performing right as refugees were arriving and the clowns are doing a show. And there's this man in a pink sweatshirt who's kind of talking on the side. And there's this moment where we can feel the energy turn because he's getting more and more attention with his commentary is getting more and more laughs.

And so the clowns invite him on stage and sort of, you know, and it's kind of that moment of like, wow, you have a lot of, you have a lot to say, you want to take the stage. And one of the things he said is, you know, he said, I almost died last night. I was in a boat last night. I almost, I almost drowned. And before that, I watched my father die.

I watched my home be destroyed. I deserve to laugh. And he's telling this story that I can only tell in this heavy weight. You know, but he's telling this story. And it keeps being punctuated with laughter. And these moments of the audience. recognizing themselves in the story and also this, you know, this cheering, this cheering him on. And that's the, our, our tagline is resilience through laughter.

And that piece of saying, okay, you know, in a time when news headlines around the world were only talking about the lack of humanity that had led to this crisis, or being faced, here's a moment of that real humanity of saying, you know what, I deserve to laugh. I have a story to tell. We also on that tour, we started playing with some of the kids on the rubber raft that were partially deflated and using them almost like a trampoline. And that we have a picture of it. I think it's my best example of what is resilience and what is resilient through laugh. and that place of bouncing back and using these objects, you know, this that are so representative

of the conflict of the trauma and then and then turning them saying, hey, is there, is there a way to use this for healing? And never in a way that's pretending, oh, this conflict didn't happen, right? We've all experienced how terrible it is when someone's just like, like positive vibes only, right? And I'm like, don't, don't tell me to write in a gratitude journal. Like, this terrible thing just happened. But in that moment where you can look at someone and have that moment of like, yeah, this, this is really terrible.

I see you. Do you want to play? And in so many ways, humor in moments of sadness. It's such a relief, but also that place of being so close to tears. You know, I remember a moment of laughing for the first time after a close friend died. And that moment of, oh, I'm going to be okay. And also, oh, I'm going to be okay. Wow.

That, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Does it get harder to do? I mean, is it something that you want to go back to it and do it, but do you find that like, do you find yourself craving to do it more or is it hard to do? Like, it's still, it's fascinating to me. I'm so thankful that you're doing it and you're bringing people to do it.

But what's it like after you have the event? Do you have that same feeling of like, I'm okay? I'm okay. For me, it got harder when I became a parent. and yep and and and it goes back and forth right I think it depends it depends what day you ask me on one hand you know we're always learning about communities by the human rights violations they're experiencing and also what's funny the past two weeks have definitely been really hard in these in these moments of, you know, we had to really shift the tour to Guatemala because of the

violence there. It's hard to look at, you know, right now all I can do is check in with our partners in Palestine and Israel and know that it's not a time we can go. And for me, it's truly believing that laughter is a right, play is a right, that keeps me going, because as soon as I let myself think, oh, does this really matter? That's when I go for a deep dive. And so really believing, yes, everyone has the right to experience and express their full emotional capacity. is what keeps me going. I love that, Naomi.

It does matter. It does matter. It matters to all the kids out there. It matters to the parents of those kids out there. And it matters to hopefully everybody listening that there's people that want to do that. I'm thankful to both you, Jed Lee, and Naomi. It's a wonderful thing in it. I think it expands on the spirit we all need

in order to be successful. It also sheds light on the problems that are happening. In some ways, you're bringing laughter to the people there, but you're also bringing attention to the problem areas. I do believe it, you know, when Naomi is posting on social media, the Clans Without Borders tour, the recent one to Turkey, and seeing the families that were just devastated by the disaster there. It does remind people past the headlines that, you know,

this tragedy is going on. And it just might be in the news for a day or two, but there are people that are suffering for a long time. I know in my own family, the people, Clans Without Borders, had a marvelous tour of Puerto Rico. And people are still suffering in Puerto Rico a couple years after the hurricanes. And that's part of the United States. And, you know, so, yes, I'm really happy that Clans Without Borders and Naomi and the other artists, are reminding people that our brothers and sisters are out there and they need our help. Yeah.

In some ways, I think laughter is therapy. You know, it does give us this sort of third-person perspective of the situation we're in. What is your take on humor as a form of therapy? It seems like it does pull people away from the, the incredible situation they're in. Do you think of laughter as therapy? Oh, ready. Now you're going to get a really diplomatic response for me.

So I think laughter can be therapeutic. Okay. And in that, you know, in the way that taking a walk or any of the kind of self-care pieces, I'm really clear that while laughter can have that benefit, our artists are professional clowns and not professional therapists. So I'm working on adding training for our artists for their own sort of mental health first aid, but that our job is to show up as clowns. And often we're working, we always work in partnership with other organizations and a lot of times

with the child health workers, you know, with the people who are social workers, who are therapists. But in this moment that we are offering really short-term and really short interactions. So we're not therapists. But again, that doesn't mean that laughter doesn't have a positive benefit. And we have seen and, you know, you know that there are so many different ways to connect with someone. And we've, you know, heard from field staff, wow, I haven't, I haven't heard that child speak in weeks or parents who say, I haven't heard my child laugh. And so we know that our work can have a really great impact of opening up, open up, up a door towards healing. But yeah, that's my very like, no, we're not therapist.

And I think part of that is also as, you know, being really clear of working with the artists and wanting to make sure that they stay safe and healthy emotionally is being really clear. You know, Chad, your job is to go and to be the best. performer you can be. And while you're in your red nose or your silly hat, your job is to be there looking for the game, looking for the moments of connection, and not there looking for, oh, is that kid hungry? Oh, what might be the long-term consequences of this? Because that's not what we're there for. And again, that's the true belief that laughter, a moment of connection, of emotional response is enough. Sorry, I'm going to know. No, it's beautiful. It's really well

said. And I think it paints a beautiful picture of what it is you're there to do. And it's walking that tightrope of culture and understanding and humor and beauty and the human spirit. You know, we talk about culture, humor seems to be something that, while it can transcend different cultures, some things are funny in a culture and some things are not funny in another culture. Are there certain jokes that work everywhere? I was going to say, when you're talking with kids, I haven't been in a culture. And again, I haven't traveled around the world. But here in the United States, you're performing for kids from all different cultures. I haven't been in front of a culture that where kids didn't laugh at a good butt wiggle.

I laugh at that. I was going to say fart jokes. Fart jokes are pretty funny. And there are some places where it's, you know, like, okay, we can't do this here. But in general, what's pretty funny is the person in charge being incompetent. Like that. It's true.

I like to make fun of the boss. And so a lot of times our shows will have, you know, like the person who's really high status and they just get things wrong. And that's always funny. You know, in competence, I think incompetence in a leader in a, like short, in a performance setting, is really funny. Oh, it's funny to know that that Ariadne, threat of truth runs through every culture. Like, that's just human nature. It's so hilarious. What about, do you, like, I'm willing to bet that both of you have so many incredible stories.

Have you thought about doing a book or do you do a documentary when you go? Do you film it so people can do it? Is there something like that in the works? Wow, those are great ideas. Those are definitely not new ideas. And we're a really small organization. That's my excuse. We do make sure to have a photographer with us for at least part of each tour.

So the best way to see those pictures is on our website or our social media. And we're really trying to make sure that we're always showing those photos. We've had a few short, short documentaries. The idea of a book is such a great idea. It's, wow, if you're someone who's listening and you're like, yes, I have, I have the funding to make this happen. Great, cool, give me an email. But it's, I think we're right now so much at the place of how do we use all of our energy to do the work. firsthand. Yeah, creating the story. Writing the story is something that comes after creating the story.

By just talking to you today, you know, I could see a series of like clowns without borders, Afghanistan, or, you know, it's wonderful. And I think that what you're doing is beautiful. And it's so contagious and something about laughter when the world, I don't know, do you think that the, here's an interesting question. Do you think that the world is always trying to, on some level, make us aware that there is beauty in the world. Like, I know when I go outside and I'll, I could be having a really rough day or maybe something bad happens to me, but I can see the sun shining or I can see this little bird that flies by and lands by the seat like he's trying to talk to me.

Do you think there's like a language that the world is speaking to us and you can tap into that? Well, I mean, George, I know myself, I find lots of beauty and, and, and, and, and, and, sunsets and sunrises and beautiful scenery, but to me, there's no, nothing more beautiful than the smile that I'll get on stage from a kid. Why? Why is that the most beautiful thing to you? It's hard to explain. When you're on stage, and if you have kids, you've experienced this where you're looking

at your kid and all of a sudden their eyes just kind of light up, and it's almost like life slows down and suddenly this expression is coming to the kid in the soul emotion. You can see everything, you know, the eyes start to light up and the nose and the smile gets there and, you know, something that takes an instant seems like it's taking forever and it's taking forever because it's just so beautiful. I think we all, at least me, I want kids to be happy. I don't want kids to suffer. I want them to understand that they're loved

and that they have the potential to do amazing things in their lives. And when I see a kid's smile and when they're smiling, it's something that we did together, then that to me, it's like kind of like, oh, wow, I'm, you know, we're kind of sharing that moment together. I had a pastor. I don't mean to get religious.

One of my priests is that really amazing guy. And he said to me, he said to me, says, gently, you know, I think heaven, anytime we do something out of love, and the person that we're with is also acting in love.

And that moment, we're experiencing what heaven's going to be like. And I guess for me, you know, being on stage with a kid and doing something together with the kid. And having that smile, that's kind of like heaven. Oh, I mean, you know, there's another passage that I like to cite sometimes when I find the world is bearing its weight on my shoulders or you feel like the world's against you and it's this. I forgot, I can't quote you what the numbers are, but it's something along the lines up.

I was born with a thorn in my side, a messenger from Satan to torment me. I prayed to the Lord to take it away. And in his infinite wisdom, I heard his voice say to me, my grace is sufficient for you. For in weakness, my power is made perfect. And it just gives me goosebumps because we all find ourselves in this moment of weakness. But if you can understand that the God's power or the power of the world, whatever divinity you believe in, is made perfect inside you when you're weak,

like wow, that's a beautiful thing to think about it. I really think that what you're doing is connecting on a level that most people may not get to feel in some levels and to be up there and to go out on a limb and travel the world and try to find the people that need to smile most. I don't know if there's a higher calling than that. Thank you. And I think my answer around, you know, the beauty of the world is, yes, and it's that question of being open to it. And I think one of the things that we see again and again,

especially from parents, is, you know, parents aren't watching the show as much as they're watching their kids watch the show. And that piece of wanting to know that our family members are okay. And a lot of times the biggest laughs, the biggest moments of joy, are not from us, but are from, you know, it's like there's a grandma who has a really funny laugh. And when she laughs, everyone turns and then laughs at that, you know, or the baby who kind of wanders on stage does anything or nothing and then wanders the moment. And it's those moments when we are in, in or experiencing crisis when we're in that toxic stress of being shut down, of being, you know, in survival mode, of feeling the weight, then it's really hard to see, you know, to see the good. It's really hard to see, wow, it's a beautiful day.

And that's not a, that's not a judgment. That's just, that's true. And one of the pieces, again, in Lesbos is a group of men asked, you know, hey, can you teach us some magic tricks? Because we, for them, what they said was really hard is kind of losing their status a bit within their family. You know, they were like, we used to kind of provide for our families. And now we're here in our camps.

And we just want to do something where we can make our camp. kids' eyes light up. And so that piece of, yes, there is beauty all around. There is so much, you know, like I think the biggest moments of joy I've witnessed have been in the most unlikely places. And it's about sometimes having a catalyst for that. And also being open to the idea that that that's okay, right? Because if we only think about humanitarian response as material goods, then we're always going to be denying those 100 million displaced people, all of the other experiences of life. If we are only thinking in terms of food, medicine, and shelter, we're really closing down opportunities. And so it's that place.

of remembering, yeah, everyone, everyone has the right to that sense of awe and beauty from the world. That is a phenomenal point. You know, if you just focus on these bare necessities in some ways you're underscoring that that's all that life is, but it's so much more. It's this must have, this, this must have changed you as a person, like going and traveling to all these places and getting this insight about what's important in life. and making huge sacrifices to do what you're doing. How has this changed you as a person? Oh, I feel like you should call one of my sisters for that to the inside suit. That's the after show, right?

Is that being like, well, yeah, but can you believe she didn't call me on my birthday? I think the biggest two. change and is is truly that I don't think about a hierarchy of need anymore, right, of truly believing that whatever someone's background, that they have a right to all of the emotional spiritual experiences of the world. And I think that's the biggest place, right? There isn't a ranking of suffering or joy and our emotional realities are our emotional realities. And so often I think we discount our own experiences by comparing it, right? This idea of like, oh, but how can I feel this way?

People are going through much worse. or or discount you know like does somebody really need laughter isn't don't they like how can that person be choosing to buy a gift for her kid shouldn't she be focusing on vegetables instead or whatever it is and that that sense of of judgment or hierarchy I think has really shifted in me and understanding that joy, joy matters. Those good experiences matter. And it doesn't, looking around to see, oh, does someone have it worse than me? It doesn't really matter unless it's, yeah, that's, you know, that's not a motivating force.

So that's, I think, how it's changed me. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. it's a wonderful insight. And I'm hopeful that people that listen to this and myself included can try to incorporate that more. This idea of judgment, it just seems like so toxic sometimes, right? Like we're constantly trying to judge things.

But maybe we should just realize how lucky we are and try to spread that love to other people. I'm all in favor of spreading love, George. I know you are. You're an amazing human being. Both of you are amazing human being. And I'm really thankful that what you're doing is spreading that joy and love around. We're going to have to – when is the trip? When is the trip coming up?

Well, I am looking forward to hopping on a plane this coming Thursday, so about six or seven days from now. And you were talking about spreading the joy and spreading the love. We actually need some help doing that. And there's a way for folks to kind of help us and not actually go on tour with us physically, but be with us spiritually. Because as I understand it, Naomi was telling me, we need some help filling up the clown bus to travel around El Salvador. It's a small country, but we're going to be going from one end to the other and back to the middle and back up and down. And so we would love for folks to help fill the gas tank while we're down there.

I've been told my AAA card's not going to work if we run into some trouble. So there's a website people can go to to help out. Am I right, Naomi? Yes. George, I can send that to you. But yeah, that's kind of the piece. One is follow along if you are on either Facebook or Instagram, like joining and seeing seeing what we do, one of the things we really work towards is sharing the stories of,

sharing the stories of our audiences. And it's a great way of if you only know about a place through kind of news headlines, it's really fun to get to learn about a place by the stories of what kids think is funny and important. Always, always a joy. And then as Jed mentioned, And, you know, we're working on filling up the clown card. Gas is our biggest expense.

And right now, you know, if you kind of need to quantify, yeah, but what difference do I make? Our shows are always free to our audience. But they cost about $11 per person for us. So for $11, you get a kid to a clown show. You know, and hopefully it's the show that becomes one of those lasting childhood memories. What's the name of the website? Oh, it's Clowns Without Borders.org. Clowns Without Borders.org.

Clowns Without Borders.org. Ladies and gentlemen, what are you waiting for? Make a kid smile. Make a long-lasting lifetime memory and get a kid into a show. It's tremendous. this. And so how long is the trip down there? You're going to be down there for a week, a month, five days, ten days? We'll be down there for about 18, 18, 19 days. Yeah, I'm, I'm real excited. My beautiful wife, not so much, but no, but I'm really excited. I've, you know,

taking a look at the itinerary and I have an amazing niece that I'm incredibly close to who is from El Salvador and we've been talking about it and yeah I'm just I'm so excited um don't know you know I just know we're going to run into lots of of smiles and um you know I'm excited to be working with the other artists that will be on tour with me And I can't wait to share with, you know, what happens with the folks who follow me on social media, with my family, my friends, and with you. Yeah, absolutely. Have you been brushing, you got a whole new routine plan? You got some new tricks you've been working on or what?

This old clown is working real hard. And I'm working on learning how to walk again. So that's, you know, that's been my current challenge. But I, you know, I met one of the artists I'll be working with. And we shared some ideas yesterday. And I can't wait to start rehearsing with her. And it's going to be amazing. Like I said, I'm just so, as we say here in Boston, George,

I am so wicked psyched. It's going to be a great time. Wicked sikes, man. That's so awesome. It's amazing. I'm grateful for it. And I would love to have you come back. And once you get back, maybe we could talk about some of the things that happened down there and try to keep the dream alive and talk about the next one coming up.

Always happy to talk. That's one of the things my beautiful wife complains about. I'm always willing to talk. Fantastic. Naomi, what do you what do you have coming up in the near future? this event plan for some people, but is there some other events that you have coming up? We do. So this isn't exciting. The next month is exciting. Right now we have a team in Guatemala. We had to really pivot that team. And so right now it's a team of all Guatemalan artists who are

performing. They start performing today. And then El Salvador. And then we have two tours coming up in Mexico. One in Puebla. And the other in Guadalajara and so those are also for for migrants and so that's an exciting um yeah now through uh i think today through november 24th we have we have a show pretty much every day where it's going to be continuous clowning and it's exciting sometimes you can see there you know there are moments that sort of have a lot of unity across shows and then and then also really different you know each tour each tour is different we create a new show for every tour and that's a really exciting exciting piece that is exciting and it's the gift that keeps on given you know it's a beautiful

thing and i'm excited to talk to you guys i'm really proud and thankful for both of you for doing what you're doing. I think it's amazing. And I know that the people and the hearts that you touch will be forever grateful. And so, well, before I let you go, is there anything else we should touch on? I can't think of anything. Um, you know, follow us on, on social media. There's a great Clons Without Border has a great Instagram page and, of course, the website. And yeah, I think that's, that's, just, just kind of reiterate that. Just, uh, can connect with Clans Without Border and, And it's a great organization to follow and to support. Is there a donate button on the Instagram page and the Clowns Without Borders?

Yes. Yeah. There is like, yeah, we try to make it pretty easy. And I think the other piece that I'm, wow, I so appreciate that you didn't ask, oh, but aren't people scared of clowns? And I'm guessing that if anyone feels like they are, they probably didn't listen this long. But for us, clowning is all about shared humanity. You know, I often say like, you know, this, this is my clown face. If you're watching, you know, like maybe I add a little pink to my

cheeks, but we're not about covering ourselves up in bright colors and wigs and makeup. It's about the playful spirit and that's something, you know, that we can all have and all bring. It's that moment of looking looking for the game looking for the moments of connection so thank you so much yeah i'm excited i i think that deep down we all have an inner clowns in us and we all love to laugh and it's what really bonds us and so well fantastic clowns without borders dot com is that right yeah oh org dot org clowns with borders dot org i heard if you say something three times people remember it clowns with borders.org. Clowns withborders.org.

Nope, nope. Clowns without borders. Okay, let's try this again. Ladies and gentlemen, it's clowns. Entirely different. I think that's Washington, D.C.

Clowns without borders.com. No, no, no, no, no, no. Dot org. Dot org. Naomi, I think George, Tell me, I think George is trying to be a clown here. This is really good. This is, tell me again.

One of the person who thought they were in power. This is, this is dumby. Proving my point of what's funny. I'll, uh. So it's, it's clowns without borders.org. One more time. I didn't get it. Tell me again.

It's clowns without borders. Dot org. Thank you. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. I've loved it right there. Ladies and gentlemen, check it out. Go down to the show notes. And I'll put, when I load up the podcast, I'll make sure that we have the links to both pages, the Instagram or where people can go. And this is fantastic. I really appreciate everything that you guys are doing. And hang on briefly afterwards. I'll talk to you afterwards, but I want to hang up with our friends right here. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for hanging out with us today.

Go down and check out the show notes. Reach out to both of them. Beautiful team and they have a beautiful mission. That's all we got for today. on.