TrueLife - Kasia Krzoska - Leaning into Authenticity

Episode Date: May 6, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Multi-hyphenate wellness entrepreneur and podcast host, Kasia’s journey is anything but linear. In her past life Kasia led product development and operations at companies like Microsoft, TEDx, and AI startups in Silicon Valley but after suffering crippling burn-out which resulted in full-body eczema & inflammation, Kasia found herself questioning her definition of “success”. Though her life seemed perfect on paper, her heart had been left behind. Fully embracing the Buddhist philosophy of “beginner's mind” she took the leap to leave her 11 year successful corporate career and start from scratch; redefining her own sense of self and launching an ever evolving journey to balance her hustle, Type-A, “Yang” energy with that of flowy, inner knowing “Yin” vibes. Today Kasia is the Host of the Nourish Podcast and is building a (still stealth) company in the space of spirituality exploration and community, intersecting the best of her love for spiritual exploration with technology. When not working on her passions, she can be found filling her cup hiking, doing yoga, or spending time with her family. https://www.sangha.ai https://www.linkedin.com/in/kkrzoska/https://nourish.buzzsprout.com/ Help support the TrueLife podcast 1.) NEVER wait on hold again. Promocode: TRUELIFE https://www.dayapp.net/2.) Under Lucky Starshttps://www.underluckystars.com/TRUELIFEPODCAST One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear, Fearers through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. It's Friday in the beautiful state of Hawaii. We have a fantastic guest for you here today. the lovely Akasha, who is a health and wellness entrepreneur,

the host of the nourish podcast and so much more. We're going to get into some of the things she's doing, some of the things she's done, and just have a really interesting conversation. So, Kasha, thank you very much for being here today. How are you? I am great, even better now that I'm talking to you. Well, thank you for that.

You know, there is this incredible young woman who I've been listening to her podcast, and I think it's really about to blow up. And she does this thing where she starts off. I don't think she'd mind me copying it this one time. And what she does, what she does is she asked the person, give me three words that describe you. Well, I do love this question being thrown back at me. And, you know, I have to say, I haven't thought about this answer, which is crazy because I've asked countless guests this question.

So I'm just going to roll with whatever comes up. And the first thing that's coming up for me is passionate. So I feel like that is just such a descriptor of me as a human being. Curious, which is why I love the podcast so much, just the level of conversation that can come up there. And then I think the last one would be mindful. And that's something that I'm really working to cultivate because I think I would have probably used the words ambitious or, you know, like, some sort of like extremely achievement oriented terms to describe myself. But I feel like not that those aren't true, but I don't want them to be the descriptor of who I am.

So I'm going to choose mindful. And I think that applies to not just the mindful practices that I participate in, but just the way I'm trying to live my life. So, yeah. I love that. I love it. It's fascinating to think about, do you think that the language we use, kind of dictates the path that we walk on? Oh my gosh, 100%.

100%. I think that the language we use is just a reflection. In some cases, it may be more or less accurate, but it's just a reflection of the way that we describe ourselves and the way that we identify. And that dictates a lot of how we show up and what we do. Yeah, I like that answer. I like that you said the words we use describe who we are.

you think about that, that's a pretty powerful statement. You can fundamentally change the way people see you and change the way you move through this world if you just change your language. That's pretty powerful, right? Oh, absolutely. But wait, before we even move on, I feel like it's only appropriate. Now that we're talking about it, for you to please share your three words with your audience here. Well, well played, very well played. You know, I would go with Curious as, as probably my second one. In the second one, I would go with punctilious, but not punctilious in that, like, a

stiff neck or really rigid, but punctilious in that I have a rare obsession with attention to form and connections. Like, I seem to look, I find it, I find it almost

like, umami. I find it like beautiful to, like, tear into this connection of things happening. And sometimes I blow past the initial person or I blow past the initial thing that I'm thinking about and I go right to this connection like why is that why is that there I get hung up on that and I guess for the third I would go with maybe like I think I'm a little delusional at times so I would go with curious punctilious and delusional oh my god I love that and then that that's like followed by your laugh which I adore I've you know

I have to say but this is why I think this question is so interesting because definitely the first one and the last one, those are words that I would have maybe described you, you know, to somebody that I had just met. But Pontchilius, never. Like, it just never even crossed my mind as a word that I would have used. And maybe if I had known you a bit better, that would have come up. But that's just so fascinating. So fascinating. Thank you. Thank you. I think it's these odd, peculiar things about us that sometimes we are embarrassed about, but really give us the true flavor of who we are. And I think people should embrace them.

I think when you do begin to embrace them, then you really begin to allow yourself to become the best version of yourself. Because these things that we're nervous about are these things that maybe we're embarrassed about are like our gifts sometimes. A hundred, a hundred percent. Like, cannot resonate with that more. And it's so funny that we're bringing this up right now because I'm part of a mindfulness program.

It's called Heart of Listening. with Deborah Eden Toll. She's a Dharma teacher from the East Coast now lives on, sorry, from the West Coast now lives on the East Coast. And that is actually the topic that we've been, we spent a lot of time talking about this week, which is how to really kind of own the things that we, in a way, hide about ourselves. Because what we don't, what we hide, if we don't, if we don't own it,

it owns us, so to speak, right? Like it kind of is hidden in the shadow. and when you bring it to the light, it doesn't have the same level of power, and it can show up completely differently when we're not hiding from it. And that's just such an important topic. Yeah, I like that. In some levels, you should steer into the crazy, I think. I've learned that while it can be dangerous, way better to steer into it

than try to whip the wheel the other way, and then you just reckon everything. I know it sounds kind of nutty, but maybe that's kind of like leaning into authenticity a little bit, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I'm curious, though, like a question that comes up for me when I think about that is, and I feel like a lot of people might be maybe reflecting on that themselves as well. Like these things that we are maybe ashamed of, the things that make us unique, that maybe we hide sometimes. Putting them out into the open is scary because you imagine being judged for that or kind of things going into disarray, like turning the the wheel too hard can actually end you, and, you know, can leave you crashing into a tree. And so I think it's really interesting to figure out, you know, is it that that is what's happening, that it's causing like a level of disarray when we show up as our authentic selves, even when it's not the most popular thing or the coolest thing or might be a bit weird? Or is it that we're just in the wrong environment?

And for this particular environment, that's just not resonating. And I'm curious to know because, you know, you use your eccentricity in a way as one of the words to describe yourself. So how have you seen this show up in your life? Like, have you leaned in more into that and then have that kind of, you know, had that show up in a positive way? Or do you feel like, you know, it's just always been that way so you don't really know a different way to be? Wow, it's a good question. I feel that it's almost like a skill. And I'll give you an example.

Like when I was a young kid, I would always say things and people wouldn't understand what I was saying. And so I just got this idea that like I wasn't right. I wasn't the same as everybody, you know? And I didn't get the best grades in like grammar school and stuff like that. And I just didn't see the world the same way everybody else did. But I was really fun to be around. All my friends loved me. And sometimes I would say things that would really piss people off.

Like I would be talking to my teachers and some of my friends. And I would just kind of the emperor has no clothes, just point out this obvious thing. And the people would get really mad at me. Like George, you don't say that kind of stuff. And I'm like, I don't, why? Like, I think that that person is getting beat up, mom. Like, why shouldn't I say that in front of people?

Or, you know, and like, we don't talk about that. And it was, in some ways, it was. was like a unique superpower because I could see things that were happening to people, but you weren't supposed to talk about them. And the more that I look at it, it's usually these gifts that we have or these things that we're leaning into are things that happened to us in our life. Like my father was bipolar. So I got to live in this world of two extremes where we were either, yeah, we're going to

Europe. We're going to Gibraltar for a ribbon-cutting ceremony or like the cops are knocking at my door. Like, you guys have 30 minutes to grab all your stuff and leave. And so, yeah, it's interesting. But it's, you know, maybe it's epigenetics or maybe it is learned behavior or innate behavior. I'm not exactly sure. But I think the answer to the question is that in the beginning, you don't know how to utilize the skill. You don't know how to utilize the behavior.

So you just try it out. And when trying out anything, you use it wrong and then you learn to use it right. And not until you get older, do you thoroughly understand who you are and the gifts that you have? have and how to use them in the right way. Does that enter the question? Yeah, 100%. So it sounds like it's kind of a blend of, you know, using it right, having, when you say using it right, it means probably having like the effect that feels in alignment with

you, the effect that has perhaps whatever outcome you are seeking like a, you know, I don't want to say good or bad outcome, but an outcome that seems to resonate well with your essence. That kind of happens when you're, you know, you're. you're saying when you get older and, you know, it's an element of environment, people, maybe like your path, all those things coming together. But so it does sound like, if I'm hearing you correctly, like there is an element of perhaps the environment or the people or the circumstances you were in just weren't willing and

able to receive what you had at the time versus the idea that there's something that's wrong with that, you know, kind of weird elements of self that you had to learn to how. hide. And I think that's just such a powerful message. Such a powerful message. What do you think? Do you think it's the environment or you think it were just in the wrong if I pose the question back to you? What's your opinion on it? So I have to say, and this is just such a relevant question for me, because I feel like I'm undoing about 15 years of conditioning, like in the past three weeks, frankly, and I can get into that. But I truly think that it's not it's not that. It's not that. the kind of quality or skill or way of being is wrong. I actually believe it's just about

finding the right environment and the right group of people. And, you know, we were right before we went live, we talked a bit about our mutual friend, Sebastian, shout out to him. And he was my first podcast guest on the Nourge podcast. And there was a line that he said that still sticks with me, which is if you're not going to be, if you're not being yourself, how will your people find you, right? And I just think that's such a powerful statement. And so it's my belief that the more we lean into authenticity, the good, the perceived bad, all of that, there may be an element of things shedding away as you're moving away from what's no longer right for you. But that doesn't mean that you're doing it wrong. Perhaps, you know, by the time you're at the other side,

you can actually reflect and see looking back that it meant you were doing it right because you're realigning with what's right for you in terms of people, environment, opportunities. That's, I think that's what resonates with me, frankly. Yeah. That's really well said. I got to give it up to Sebastian, too. His podcast, leadership, leader, leadership delics. Is that way?

Leadership medallics. I know it's so hard to say. It's me. That's part of it. It's so true, though, because he's all those things. He's psychedelic in nature. He's a leader. he's down in Peru, he's all over the West Coast.

The guy's doing all kinds of amazing things. He's got flute Fridays that people should be turning into. It's an amazing thing. And it's interesting, this idea of if you become your authentic self, that you do start attracting people into your life that are drawn to you for the right reasons. I don't know. Sometimes I think, sometimes I think, Kasha, that you have to go through all those trials and tribulations in order to become your authentic self.

If we just look back at mythology, whether it's the hero's journey or we look at Nietzsche's camel to the child, you know, it's just, it's in all the great stories. It's in all the great literature. It's in all the performance of the storytellers of this past is that you're constantly rebuilding yourself and trying to refine yourself, right? And hopefully, I heard a good quote one time that said, every night you have the opportunity to die and every morning you have the chance to be reborn. And it just seems that when you get to a certain stage of life, you get you're faced with. this choice. Do you continue to walk down this path that has been laid out for you that was the product of the people you admired most and their dreams and their visions? Or do you kind of go off the beaten path and be like, God, I just hear this call, this siren call. I got to walk down this way. I think we all have that choice. Do you see that too? Oh, my gosh. I feel like you're reading my mind, George. It's a little weird, actually. Yes, 100%. And I, I, I, I love that you brought up kind of this rebirth process and even kind of reference back to mythology because I think as a society we've in a way forgotten that it's okay to pivot.

It's okay to make changes. It's okay to experiment. And I think as we get older, there's kind of, you know, on one hand, you get more in touch with what's authentic and true to you. But on the other hand, there's also a lot of fear of change. And this just resonates so deeply with me because, and I don't know if we had, if you had talked to Sebastian about this before any, you know this or not, but I've spent, Sebastian and I, we met at Microsoft.

And prior to us meeting, I had spent, I mean, a total of about 11 years working in the tech industry in product management, operations, marketing, everything from building software from Microsoft, working for AI companies, organizing TEDx. events and I feel like I was always moving towards what I thought at that time was the dream, right? To end up building a very successful tech company and whatever that looked like. And, you know, I think that there's an element of struggle with that. And so I kind of accepted that as being true as I went on the path. I got the promotion. I got the next job. Then I started to explore entrepreneurship and what that would look like from like a very boxed view, which

is that it looks like this. You know, you have the idea, you follow the playbook of raising money and what that looks like. And it was actually very recently that it started to occur to me that perhaps that's not the only way of doing things. And perhaps this may not be the way that resonates with the way I want to show up in the world. And I struggled with that a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. And the idea of experimenting and deciding that, something's not right for you, especially when you've committed to it or taking a different path or turn, there's just so much insecurity around not having it figured out, being like, this is exactly what I'm doing, this is who I am. And changing that, it felt so uncomfortable. And it felt

so uncomfortable when I left Microsoft without a very solid plan figured out and started grad school studying Chinese medicine, it was so uncomfortable to then pivot into building a business and then recognizing that perhaps the way that I'm doing is wrong and wrong for me, not wrong for everybody. And so I think this idea of accepting life pivots and not just being okay with them in the context of a startup is pivoting to be more successful, but applying that to your own life is just so, so important, so important. And I just love. that there's that historical reference that you mentioned with that. It's so crucial. I love it. I'm curious. Fear seems to be a paralyzing emotion. And when you're going to leave,

like you're in this area. You're making good money. You have good connections. You're probably feeling pretty good about yourself, at least on the society's level of what success is defined as. But there's fear there to leave. And that's probably why a lot of people don't. But you're You did. How did you, was it a surrender to fear? Was it an overcoming a fear? What was your relationship to fear?

How did you manage making that jump? Oh my gosh. Yeah, George, it was, I don't know if I can curse on this podcast, but it was effing terrifying. Do it.

Terrifying. Fucking terrifying. Terrifying. And I just want to emphasize, like, it did not happen overnight. I mean, I felt so much misalignment for a while.

And it's not to say that there was anything wrong with the company or the people I was working with. I mean, and it's almost even harder, by the way, when you do like the people and you're thriving. Because that's the thing, right? When you're doing something that isn't the right fit and you're failing at it, maybe at one point you'll be like, okay, well, I feel like I failed enough and maybe this isn't the right thing for me. But it's almost harder when you're doing well and you're getting promoted and you're making great money and you're getting these incredible offers. And it was so scary to walk away from that. There was the fear of what, what other people think. And in fact, when I told people I was leaving, not only did everyone pretty much

try to convince me not to leave, but people thought I was going crazy. I remember one person, a very senior person actually, had told me, well, don't tell the senior leadership team what you're doing because they're going to think you've lost your mind. Like, don't tell them that you're leaving and you're starting to go to grad school to kind of explore, by the way, spirituality, the essence of Chinese medicine, which is what has interested me for so long. And I just, I remember feeling like, oh, my God, like there's like this shame associate. Not only is it scary, but it's like there's this judgment of shame. And that was truly one of the, that was probably the worst thing that somebody could have said to me at that time.

And now that I heard it, I was like, all right, well, that was the lowest. So it can only go up from there. But no, it actually got worse because you try to leave and they throw other opportunities at you. you're really second-guessing. But honestly, I think the most powerful antidote to fear, I really think are two things, and they're connected. One, it was this deep-rooted feeling. I had this moment of realizing that I only have one life.

And if I were to pass away tomorrow, how would I feel about my life? Like even knowing that I tried and failed would feel better to me, then feeling like I never tried it all. And so that thing of like really coming to terms with, in a way, your mortality and your authenticity, those two things, like getting a taste of what is really meaningful to you and how just not trying would not be giving my life and my identity and myself a chance. And that seemed in the moment to be more important.

But to say that I didn't have panic attacks, like clinically diagnosable, panic attacks, doubts, before and after the fact, uncertainty fears, all those things. I mean, I just have to admit, like, that was there. And yeah, I guess I surrendered to it. Just rolled with it. Wow. It's so, thank you for sharing that. I think it's something that people who are on the fence about finding a path in life can sink

their teeth into that. Did you find that sometimes, like I have found that there's this look. of despair that other people give you. It's like almost like they feel sorry for you. Like, oh, you're doing that. Like, so for me, I'm like, oh, that person thinks that about. You know what I mean? It's like, that's so hard for me sometimes.

So I want to ask you something. I want to ask you something. Did you actually get that kind of a comment from somebody? Or are you perceiving that that's what they're thinking when they look at you? It's the second one. It's the perception. It's the, And maybe the projection I'm seeing is just their projection on me.

I'm like, oh, my God, I can never do that. But maybe that speaks volumes of how I feel about myself in some ways. But yeah, that was a great observation on your part because I do see it that way sometimes. But it's interesting to be in that position where you're walking away from something that is working. And you're like, okay, I'm just going to do this other thing. Did you have people next to you that were like a rock for you that supported you? have people there that like you could turn to if you needed them. Yeah, 100%. And before I even, first of all, I do want to acknowledge that the question you'd ask me about feeling like people

were looking at me like that. I had my own version of that. So I just want to acknowledge that. Yeah. But the reason I ask that question is because I spent a lot of time kind of reprogramming in my mind, like, well, they didn't say it to me. So do I know that it's 100% true? And I couldn't say yes to that, except for that one person who had said it to me, but then what I did, and this is no shade on his life, by the way, I just looked at his life and I was like, well, is he living the life that I would want to live? And maybe he's very happy with it. So this is not a shade against that. But the answer was no. And so then the path was clear, right, or the direction I was going to make. But I just, I want to acknowledge that. Now, in terms of support system, yes, I absolutely

did. But I also want to acknowledge that it required a shedding, the stepping into your authentic path and making these choices for yourself that are so scary. It required me to also shed the people in my life that weren't supportive. So I will be very honest to say that, you know, my parents who are now my biggest cheerleaders and best support system were not supportive of the decision. They were supportive of me leaving Microsoft, but partially because my dad always envisioned me to be an entrepreneur, but he did not support me studying Chinese medicine. And just for context to this, you know, my parents have always said that, and this is just to frame, this is not that I agree with this, but they have always said, you know, that your college education is not

finished until you get a higher degree, but studying Chinese medicine did not count for that. And they made that so, so clear. They were like, we're not helping you with this. We don't support this decision. You're on your own here. And so, you know, there was like an element of feeling like I disappointed my parents. And, you know, it did require me for a period of time to, to create some space and set some boundaries. I literally had told them, I was like, look, if you're going to show up with a face that seems like you're not supportive of this, if you're going to tell me that you're not supportive of this decision. Like, I heard you, I'm digesting it. You don't have to repeat it. And if you want to, I'm just going to let you know that I'm going to cut that conversation short because

I'm scared enough as it is and I don't need this feedback from you. And by the way, my parents are my biggest supporters now. And so I think setting that boundary and showing them, you know, that this is what I need. This is what I don't need was so helpful. But so I did finagle. my own closest group of people. And frankly, and I tend to do this when I'm going through a large change, I hermit it as well, like kind of pulled away for a bit to figure out who were those people. Who did I feel comfortable sharing about my changes or my thoughts with? Who showed up and cheered me on even in times of uncertainty? And so I think that's really important, recognizing that just because you don't have the support around you at the moment does not mean that you're making a

wrong decision. You might just be surrounded by people who, you know, believed that the path you were on is the path. And so, of course, they're not going to be supportive. But having that tribe of people around you is so important for sure. Wow. You are a really great communicator. I love the way you're able to tell people like, I think I'm going to just cut this one short because I'm like, that's really well said. And sometimes it seems that people get caught up when they, maybe when words fail for some people, they turn to emotions like anger. Was anger ever something that happened? It kind of seems to me that, you know, when you look at the friend's life who was saying some things about you, that taking a moment to understand that that person may not be living their

full life is a great way to circumvent the anger instead of just taking it in a way that could make you. Was there any anger involved in the decision making or was it a byproduct or was that ever there? Oh, yeah. I mean, how can you? Of course. I mean, there was, there was anger, there was grief. I mean, I'll just use the example with my, my parents as an example, because I was so angry that I didn't receive my dad's support at the time, right? There was anger, there was grief, there was shame. I felt like, you know, maybe he was ashamed of what I was doing. He was ashamed. How would he introduce me? I'm not the daughter that works at Microsoft with ex-fancy title anymore. And, maybe I'm not choosing the same path he had wished for me. So, of course, there was anger. And but, you know, I think after a period of time when I really reflected on the emotions that were coming up, there's an element of I can't control his response to me. I can only control my own reaction to him and what I do with that, which in my case was to set boundaries. And they didn't

last forever. But at the time, I set very strong boundaries. And same with the friend. And I just, I want to emphasize that I, of course, now it sounds so graceful when I'm telling you. But in the moment, it was not graceful. I mean, I swear I would have these phone calls with like the head of my department and then, you know, like super composed and firm in my ground and my decision. And then I'd get off and I'd cry hysterically to my boyfriend, now husband at the time, right? Or call up one of my friends who was supportive. So just, it doesn't look this pretty. And I sound so firm in my decision because I know was the right one for me, but there's nothing scarier than going from what isn't right to uncertainty, even or especially if it's going from what isn't right to

some sort of uncertainty. If you're going from what isn't right to a clear next step that feels right, that feels so great but it is you know and this applies not just to work situations i think it applies to so many to relationships right like when you break up with somebody that isn't the right fit that is almost the perfect next perfect right fit you don't necessarily just jump right into a next relationship you know and so i think that just recognizing that those emotions are so normal and that they will pass um and that anger is okay grief is okay all those things are okay is just really validating. It was validating for me in the moment, although I didn't do such a great job of that when it was happening. I need to say that. That's so awesome. You're so honest. And I love the

fact that you're not afraid to be to explain exactly how it was because I think that helps a lot of people. You know, I often use this phrase as above so below. And when we start thinking about the situations where, you know, you are composed and then you're crying and then you're upset. And and then you're trying to find a way. And then you relate that to patterns. Like you said, okay, this happened in my job. And it also happens in your relationships. Is there something that we can learn by panning back and seeing that as a pattern?

Like, wow, I manifested this new part of me to create this new part of life. Is that something once you've gone through it that you can draw upon going forward to become a better person? Oh my gosh. I love that observation. That's so good, George. That is so good. And frankly, by the way, I think absolutely.

I think that trusting, I think an element of trust is so important here. Trusting in something bigger than you, like trusting these instincts. So, so, so crucial. And so I did spend actually a lot of time when I was making this career leap, reflecting on other times where taking this leap into uncertainty had served me well. Like leaving my past relationship, which was a very serious relationship, I thought it was going to be forever. This person was with me through such difficult health struggles.

He was almost everything that was perfect. And he truly was perfect. But there was just something within me that was telling me that he wasn't the one for me. And, you know, I could rationalize with my mind, but my heart just knew. and going through that breakup and, you know, moving out, going from having a family to having no one on the West Coast, I was alone again. But then later, a few years later, meeting my now partner, you know, I can kind of look at that path and be like, wow, like taking that leap and all those emotions and all those things, like they brought me to where I am now. And what if the same thing

could be true for this? And so I definitely think looking back at examples is so helpful. I also want call out. Maybe this is something that you were alluding to, but recognizing the patterns and becoming more aware and mindful of your own reactions to things as a means to kind of, I don't know if I want to say transcend them, but kind of integrate them into yourself can also be so valuable, right? Like, for example, this whole experience has brought up a lot within me. what are some of the patterns of, you know, where did this, this kind of lack of trust in myself and lack of authenticity or kind of trying to fit a mold? Like, where did this come from? And where does it show up in my life? You know, it showed up in a way in my past relationship because I'd

been in it for so long, even though I knew it wasn't right for me. And so I see it here again. What is that connection? So that can also be really helpful. Looking at past kind of life cycles of things and also recognizing the connection and investigating within yourself, like, what are some of these patterns and conditioning and the behaviors that can be very, very powerful? Wow. It's really well said. Do you think that maybe seeing these patterns and living the life that you did and are currently living, when you think about all those together, the patterns, the life you're living, the things you've been through. Can you see sort of like a magnetic pull from those things to Chinese medicine?

Like what is it about Chinese medicine that attract it? It seems like there's an eriotomy thread that runs through there. So I want to be very transparent for folks to share that I want to be clear that I'm actually communicating this all from still being on the journey, right? The journey of evolution. And I think I alluded to having that recent kind of transition in my life where I recognized, okay, I know entrepreneurship is for me, but the way that I was doing it, and actually I was in the midst of building a tech company in the spiritual plane and really recognizing, well, you know what? Like the traditional route of VC funding is not the route I want to take. That was kind of the recent revelation for me.

And that's like undoing 15 years of conditioning. So I want to really share that I'm still on the path and the journey. And, you know, in a way, I feel very grateful for that because I can speak to past experiences, but I can also speak to the very present things that come up in the midst of this. But the reason why I do want to share that as well is because Chinese medicine has enabled me to have this powerful shift in my perspective. So for those who don't know much about Chinese medicine philosophy without like explaining all of it because that would be a whole other podcast. But it's it's a philosophy that is rooted in thousands of years of knowledge. And really it's based on observation, observation of the human body as it relates to nature. And it's based on Taoist theory as well. And so it's really rooted in the principles of interconnection, that everything is connected, your mind. body, your spirit, that disease, of course, there are things like, you know, external disease factors like a virus of sorts, but actually the vast majority of disease originates from within,

and it stems from unprocessed emotions or lifestyle habits that are misaligned and cause basically a lack of ease, disease. I love it. I know, right? Who would have thought? And so it is just this principle of that interconnection is so, so, so valuable. And I think it just has brought this awareness into my life that, you know, we aren't, we kind of compartmentalize our lives so much.

Like, this is my work self and this is who I am at work. And work is this. And this is my home life. And this is my free time life. Yet all of this is your life. And actually, how can we bring more synergy? and more integration to all of that, it has really become my personal mission and journey. And so it's just really changed my philosophy on not just, you know, health and well-being,

which it's absolutely done that. And it's something that this is what I talk a lot about on the NERGE podcast, you know, how to become truly healthy in mind, body, and spirit, but also how to integrate your whole self into every aspect of your life. And so that's really been the primary influence, that sense of that perspective shift and that integration, which is just so powerful, so powerful. You have a degree in English. Is that correct? Yeah, I do. Okay, so I think this is, I brought that up because, you know, it seems that I've been

reading a lot of Ian McGilchrist, who wrote this book called The Master and his emissary, and he's written a two-volume series called The Matter with Things. And he talks a lot about the left hemisphere of the brain being this linguistic scalpel in which we continually find ways to specialize behaviors or specialized things. And he refers to the right hemisphere of the brain as like the master and the left is the emissary. And the master has like this grand plan and it sees these large mental images and is able to understand the symbolic nature and has the symbol. modeling of metaphor. And so he talks about the world we kind of live in today is much like you said. It's like this compartmentalized, closed off, boxed labels of different people.

And when we look at the Western societies, we see this idea of linguistics as a higher order of thinking. And when I listen to you speak about Chinese medicine, or I look at the characters in which they use as letters over there, that's probably not the right thing, but they use the characters. And it's like this symbol of a heart, like busy is a symbol of a heart and a heart dying. And like there's so much more symbolic nature in the way they communicate. And it sounds to me that you've found a way to bridge this gap between the analytical scalpel of linguistics. And now you're merging this big picture idea of the right hemisphere.

And you could think of east versus west or however you want to look at it. You know, it's, have you thought about. And then we take it to the world of integration. Like they're integrating together. And then we throw psychedelics into that mix. Like that's kind of a shot in that at the back door. But take that anywhere you want to. What do you think about that?

Well, so, okay, this was just such a beautiful reflection. I just want to pause there because I'm just, first of all, like, you're going to have to follow up with the author that you mentioned because I haven't read that book, but it sounds fascinating. So don't just link in the show notes. Give it to me, please. I will. I will.

Yeah, it'll blow your mind. It sounds fascinating. But, you know, first of all, I want to start by reflecting on the Taiji, which is that symbol of yin and yang. Okay. And I think that in thinking about symbolisms of sorts, understanding that symbol was just so profound to me because in Chinese medicine, you know, we see a picture of it. And so it's static. And you can see the dark side, the light side. and if you'll notice, there's a bit of darkness in the light.

There's a little dot and there's a bit of lightness in the dark. And so the notion is that within one, there's always the other. One cannot live without the other or exist without the other. And in Chinese medicine, when things are in flow, these two symbols are actually spinning and they're merged. So you can't even tell them apart, right? And that kind of constant changing the flow, that there isn't anything static.

Like that is in a way kind of health in Chinese medicine. Like stagnation in the body actually is reflected in pain where something isn't flowing, right? And I think that just so aptly describes also a diseased kind of perspective or way that we live our lives. Like the more division and separation that we create within our lives, between our identities, who we are, between ourselves and others, the more disconnected we feel, right? And at least that is something, and when I say all of this, I want to kind of echo, like I'm not speaking on behalf of any particular author. This is just something that I've observed in my own life and something that just really translates to how I want to live my life.

And so I think you so well described the way we in Western society are compartmental And there's this division of East and West and, like, how do you bring them together? And, yeah, I mean, I guess this is all to say that I definitely agree with you. Right? Like, step one, I agree with you. I'm curious in your eyes, like, you know, you live in Hawaii and you're kind of witnessing. You're actually in a way in the middle in between the east and the west. You're actually on an island there.

And I'm curious, like, how are you noticing perhaps, especially when you throw in kind of this whole psychedelic movement? Are you noticing a shift away from compartmentalization? Do you think that that's still on the fringe? Like, what are you noticing in the world around you and in your own life? Like, I'm just going to throw that right back at you. Yeah. Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity. And I love the way you describe that.

If I touch on that symbol, like the yin and yang symbol, I went in Hawaii, they have like the people that do the fire. And if you, if you see them in the beginning that they light the torch and it's like a just a torch, but then begins spinning it. And it's always in the dark. And all of a sudden, it's a circle. And the flame is in a circle. But when they stop, it's just a stick on fire. When you're twirling it, it's like this beautiful motion.

And like, you know, that seems to me to be similar to that. And being from like Caucasian acres in San Diego and coming to Hawaii was an incredible cultural journey for me. Like I learned a lot about all the things that I don't know. And I think that here in Hawaii, it is like this melting pot. You know, my, I'm married the love of my life. My wife, Kay, she's Laotian. And it's fascinating to get to be in a relationship where it is East Meets West. You know, there's this, I always, she always says, you come out with your guns blaze. And I'm like, yeah, you always hide your knives, you know. And so it's this weird way. You know, it's like this weird way we interact.

But I bring that up because it's kind of a metaphor for the way the West and the East communicate. Like people do kind of come out with like their guns blazing sometimes. And people over here are much more concerned about, you know, discipline. And on an interesting example, in my kids' school, we had a parent teacher meeting where the teachers were getting up. And it's a very diverse school. And there's a lot of different cultures that go there. And so you can imagine that the teachers and the principal are very cautious about the way they explain the, you know, the, the curriculum. And so in one of the beginning parts that we had, one of the teachers said, may I ask the parents here what it is they want to see their students become?

And this Japanese lady stood up and very kind and just beautiful woman. And you could tell that she was an educated woman and she was doing well. And she said, I want my child to be obedient. And for me, I was like, how dare you? That's the last thing I want for my kid. But it wasn't so much that we wanted different things is that we had a different definition of what we wanted. And I think that being in Hawaii, you get to see that. Like, if you're, if you're east and west, it's very easy to come to this idea of what the other people are.

When you sit down and you talk to them and you go, well, what do you mean by obedient? it. Well, I want them to be disciplined. Okay. Well, again, what does discipline mean? What discipline means, you know, doing what you're told. And I'm like, oh, and I'm like, well, I want my child to be disciplined, but I prefer that my child be disciplined in that what they say they're going to do, they do. But I see the bridge there. And I think that the, there's another great book on, oh gosh, I don't have it in front of me. I usually do. It's called storming. I do it's right here. It's called storming heaven. And I try to hold this up for people. watch it's called Storming Heaven and it's by Jay Stevens and he talks a lot about the psychedelic movement in the 60s and how what some of the people in the far east were saying is that the

psychedelic movement is sort of like a Trojan horse to bring the ideas of the east to the west and you can see that now in this explosion of psychedelics like people are talking about mindfulness people are figuring out ways to see spirituality in a way they never have before. And so I guess that's a long-winded answer of being in Hawaii. I do get to see the merging of east and west. And I think what you're seeing here is like a first outbreak of this new merging together of east and west. And I think it's moving. It's the same way that the storms move from here to there. So too are we seeing this merger of east and west beginning to move towards the mainland. So I see it happening here. And I think, I bet.

you can see it on the West Coast. If you look at some of our mutual friends that are going to Peru or whether they're starting their own retreats or they're starting to entertain the ideas of spirituality being more than connecting them. I've even seen churches that are starting to bring together the idea of all the gods. I see that as such a positive and beautiful thing. But mostly what I see to, Kasha, that I want to bring up is the idea of people having their personal transformation, like you, like you having this personal transformation and becoming the best version of yourself, I think that that is part of the East versus West kind of thing.

I know that that was a lot there, but do you see the idea of East and West coming together where you're at? Absolutely. Absolutely. And before I even jump into that response, I just want to say thank you for. sharing. I think it's so fascinating to hear what it's like on the island. My cousin grew up there. And so, yeah, it's so beautiful. And it's just so fascinating to also see, you know, how what it looks like to have a melting pot of different cultures all in this one place and how that shows up. And how beautifully you were all able to communicate, it sounds like, from what you're describing. And kind of find the bridge, which is just amazing.

amazing. There should be like, you should teach a class on that for folks, first of all. Yeah. Let's start there. Yeah. So absolutely here on the West Coast, I mean, I think it's showing up in so many different forms. I think there are a couple of trends that I'm noticing. There's obviously the psychedelic movement, which I think just opens people's minds and shifts perspectives. And I think that is just so important to recognize, I think, the interconnection. of all things and have a perspective shift and feel more of that kind of one, the feeling of oneness as opposed to separation, that individualism is, I think, very traditionally like a Western thing.

And there's also, I think, and you can call this east or west because I think the element of spirituality is kind of all permeating, but there's definitely a pull for a deeper sense of connection from a spiritual sense. And I find this to be pretty fascinating because statistically there's been a decline in organized religion. And I think if you read on the literature around and I can send you some stuff afterwards if you want hyperlink it. But it's something like 25 to 30 percent, according to Pew Research of U.S. adults identify as spiritual but not religious. and a huge chunk of that is kind of described as people feeling like they don't quite fit into the box of X organized religion. And so I think that there's this space of exploration of what is spirituality mean.

How do I connect to this that's deeper? And that can show up and then be reconnected through to a psychedelic journey or kind of a separate kind of spiritual journey. May it be the exploration of all sorts of things. but in a very kind of a, and this term might be weird, but like a fluid way, right? Where it's not any one thing, but like a kind of exploration of all sorts of things together to create a more deeper sense of self. Now, but in terms of the transformation, I will say, I think that there's like a rise of this, but I don't know if I would describe that as traditionally eastern or western.

I still think it's like fairly individualistic and in a way I have. to acknowledge, like, I feel so fortunate to even have been able to go through this because I think in order to be in that place to do it, certain things need to line up, right? Like, I don't know that I would have had that kind of awakening and change. Not, I may have had the awakening, but my actions would have been different if, for example, I was a single mom supporting several kids right now. Like, you know, I grew up from a place where I was not able to afford a lot of things and I grew up in a lot of lack, but I have, you know, earned a great salary at Microsoft that made that possible for me. So I just want to acknowledge that. But yeah, definitely this

trend of transformation on a deeper level is pulling through and I love it. Let me, I really think you brought up a really great point in that being fortunate enough to go through a transition that is not. easy, especially if you don't have the resources to do it. After going through this, how do you feel about your relationship to responsibility now? Do you feel like a greater responsibility to try to give back to people? Oh my gosh, 100%. Well, I think, I also think that's actually like front and center for me and especially

this recent transition of kind of intention that I had around how I want to build businesses in the world. That comes from a place of, you know, really because I was going on this path of, you know, the traditional, like going back into tech, but from an entrepreneurial side and integrating, you know, my experience of technology with my passion for mindfulness and spirituality to build some sort of a big tech business. And there's nothing wrong with that. By the way, I want to call that out. But I realized as I was going along the path, the way that I was doing it, I was becoming very disconnected from my original intention and purpose. And that is really to serve.

And I think that's really important to acknowledge because we talk a lot about burnout in our culture. And of course, a lot of that can be attributed to lifestyle choices and decisions that may or may not be within your control. When you have to work really long hours, you're not living a balanced life. You have kids to take care of like all these different things. However, I think a part of it as well is losing a sense of purpose. And there's pretty fascinating research around longevity and how much a sense of purpose has an impact on living a long, fulfilling life and purpose in the sense of giving back to people, creating something of value.

And if we're talking about how to harness energy that is clean energy from within, that is sustainable, it has to come from the heart. It doesn't just come up from here. It has to come from the heart. And so, yeah, that is, like, my utmost intention, and that is where my focus is going. Like, how can I maintain that and whatever it is that I do? The podcast, business, like, all of that. I love it.

In a way, I think you've defined spirituality, like what it means to you by talking about having the responsibility to give back to people and, you know, When I think about spirituality, I'm not, like I was never raised going to church on Sundays. And I've read quite a bit in different types of different religions. But I wouldn't say that I'm, you know, Eastern Orthodox or a Christian or a Catholic or anything. However, I do find myself looking at different scriptures now and really finding a lot of incredible meaning. What I looked at recently was without a vision, the people perish. And it seems so true in life.

Like if you have a vision of what you can be, like, for example, you've decided, you had a vision at some point in time. Like, this is not the right thing for me. I'm going to take a chance out here. You follow that vision. And in doing so, you light the path for other people to see that vision. While it may not be the same vision, like, you've handed like the torch back and like lit someone else's candle so that they can walk forward.

And I just, I think it's a beautiful, spiritual thing. When you think about different sort of scriptures, whether it's in, the Talmud or the Bible or, you know, any sort of the Quran. What do you think about spirituality and scripture and incorporating that in your life? Hmm. Oh, that's such a beautiful question. And I also just want to reflect that other people who choose the path less traveled to do that for me. So I just want to shout that out.

And I appreciate you mentioning that. Yeah. So right now I have a long laundry list of books that I'm reading that I want to read and that I'm reading now. I find myself really drawn to Buddhist text right now. Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Suzuki Roshi is definitely one. I'm reading right now it is luminous darkness by Deborah Eden Toll. who I mentioned earlier, and it's about how to lean into the dark uncertain nature or like limbo or uncertainty or even dark places, like when we're going through difficult times.

And I think that's just such a beautiful book. And it's based on Buddhist philosophies. And I think the reason why I feel so pulled to it is because I think it's so important to as much as possible for me personally to start to tap into, again, like heart-led leader intention that is not overwhelmed by ego. And it's so easy to go in the other direction, especially when we're talking about anything that is going to create a monetary kind of exchange or value in the world.

It's so easy to be overtaken by things that perpetuate financial success or power. Like, those are places where the ego thrives. And there's nothing wrong with that. I just want to call that out. But I think that it's so important to keep like an intention that is meaningful, kind of front and center. And the thing that powers you. And when I say you, I speak really of myself and my intention here. And so that is what I'm leaning into.

Like how can I really continue to cultivate that part of myself and not let the ambitious striving side, which is definitely like purely ego driven to overtake things. And that's kind of where I'm coming from with that. It's amazing to me. We're kind of coming up on an hour right here, Kasha. I just want to say, I know, I know. This is way too fast. Yeah.

This is really fun. And it has exceeded all my expectations. I'm really thankful for that. So we'll have to do it again, I think. I would really like that. But before I let you go, you are the podcast host of the nourish podcast. And I thought maybe you could share some things with the audience about like what you've learned so far from podcasting.

I think it's a pretty cool medium and you get to see yourself in a different light and you get to see other people and you learn about communication. What are some things that you've learned along this journey so far? Oh my gosh. Well, first of all, I love, love, love, love podcast. Yes. That is truly like, that is a heart-led venture. A hundred percent cannot emphasize that enough. I mean, I can definitely get into all sorts of things here, you know, from the technical stuff,

which I think is less interesting, the nuances of how much heart, love, and effort goes into this. So all you listening to the True Life podcast right now give George a lot of love for this. Thank you. Because it is definitely a lot of blood, sweat, and tears go into production. like this. But I think the thing that I have found that I'm so grateful for is just the guests that I've been able to have on the podcast. I've learned so much from them. Everybody from doctors of Chinese medicine who share perspectives on autoimmune conditions and the emotional connection to autoimmune diseases through to the co-director of the Stanford Sleep Clinic,

sharing about sleep and kind of the science behind it. And, you know, I was able to kind of connect the dots with that in Chinese medicine through to mindfulness and, like, how can you cultivate heart-led, heart-powered leadership principles and show up from your heart as opposed to just from your mind. I mean, these topics are just so, so, so important. And, you know, maybe it's selfish to say because I'm giving them as a gift to everybody because I know that I'm not the only one who feels some of these uncertainties or is trying to navigate the world in a more human way. But there is also this incredible selfish gift that I'm grateful for, which is I learned so much from the guests.

So I think that's the main takeaway, which is just the power of human conversations with people of different backgrounds, experiences and perspectives is just so life-affirming. and it can really shift your perspective on yourself and on life. And that is just so beautiful. And I'm so grateful for that. You're awesome. You're a great teacher and you have incredible topics. And the people you have on there, I think, are the conversation is really engaging. I really enjoy them.

And I love the idea of giving back to people that could maybe learn from it and maybe inspiring someone you'll never even meet in your life that could pick up the torch and keep walking with it and stuff. So where can people find you? I always ask this question at the end, this set of questions. And those questions are, where can people find you? What do you have coming up and what are you excited about? Well, first of all, George, I just want to say that everything you just mentioned that I do with the podcast, I have to throw right back at you because you're doing that with a true life podcast. So right back at you. And this was such a joy.

Thank you so much. So you can find me on the Nourish podcast, which is available on pretty much every podcasting platform out there. You can search for Nourish. And then I should be one of the top results. But if you don't find me, just type in my name, K-A-S-I-A. And you'll definitely find me there. And that's really my main platform. I do post on Instagram and on LinkedIn.

You can find me there. So on Instagram is just my full name. and then on, sorry, on Instagram, it's Nourish underscore podcast. And on LinkedIn, it's my full name. So you can connect with me there. I would just love to connect with the community. And then in terms of what I have going on, well, I have some incredible guests that are coming onto the podcast.

So definitely check that out. And the other thing I have going on is some entrepreneurial exploration. So I kind of shared a bit of the transition that's pretty recent here for me. and I'm going to be working through this limbo in a very graceful, leaning into it kind of a way. And I'm excited to see what that produces and how I shift, how I build some of the ventures that I'm building. And I'll definitely be posting about it. So, yeah. Fantastic. I can't wait to see the light that you shine on to the rest of the world.

So thank you for that. And hang on for one second. I'm going to close this down here, but I wanted to talk to you for one more moment. So ladies and gentlemen, check out the nourished podcast. The links will be in the show notes. I hope you all enjoyed the conversation as much as we did, and we will be back soon. Aloha.

Aloha. All right. And