TrueLife - Kat Novotna - Nature’s Classroom

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Kat NovotnaKat is the founder of Way Back Home and EcoNIDRA™, Mentor in Presence & Self-Care, ANFT certified Forest Therapy Guide and a Slow Family advocate. Kat's passion and mission are to help people reconnect with nature, with themselves and with others. Kat was trained by world experts and great mentors in Forest Therapy, Yoga Nidra, Council Facilitation, as a Teacher of Presence trained by Eckhart Tolle (formally) and her son (informally), Wellbeing Inspired by Nature Consultant, Holistic Nutrition, Psychology of Eating & Life Coach, in Wilderness First Aid, Cross-Cultural Communication and Linguistics. She has 20+ years of experience in training adults and community building for nature and human connection related projects. Please contact Kat at [e-mail] if you'd like to discuss the possibilities of mentoring in English, Dutch or Czech language.https://waybackhome.info/en/mentoring One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. Depending on where you are, maybe it's evening, maybe it's morning, maybe it's the afternoon. Wherever it is, I hope the sun is shining or the world is treating you in a way in which you deserve. I hope that you realize that you are a miracle and that the world is conspiring to help you if you know where to look at. I've got a great show for you today.

The one and only, I hope I'm going to pronounce your last time. I was just thinking I should have asked her before. Kat Novotna. Perfect. Yes, I did it. Thank you. Kat is a forest therapy guide, founder of Eco-Nidra and Way Back Home. She's a mentor in presence and self-care, Kinsugi artist, and mother of one little Viking.

14-month-old, I hear what on the street is. Her passion and mission are to help people reconnect with nature, with themselves, and with others. She has 20 plus years of experience and training in community building. And for those that are watching, there's a new book out right now, of which she wrote, writes multiple pieces in. And thank you, Randall Hanson. Randall, if you and Jenny are watching, thank you for this beautiful piece that we both have

and putting everything together. And Kat, I would love to hear about, even though I've read snippets of the book without giving too much away, what led you to this relationship with what you're doing? Maybe you can explain what you do in the relationship of how you got there. Thank you.

Thank you for this amazing. enthusiastic introduction. So what led me to what I'm doing, what I'm doing is basically helping people remember what it feels like to be really relaxed,

to be in your body, to be out of your overactive thinking mind and to feel connected to nature, to the rest of the planet and to yourself. And this can be done in different ways. You know, there are so many ways,

to do that and the two of them that I'm using are forest bathing and ikonidran which are both practices of nature connection and of course what led me to do it is my own experience of being disconnected and feeling a bit lost in this world and in the society so yeah that way I discovered both of them it's interesting you know before we started you and I were both speaking about Well, you were telling me a little bit about having what it's like to have a, you know, a younger child. And I know from having a younger child, they seem to come into this world with such a connection to spirit and nature. And, you know, on some level, that helps us, who's the parents, start to realize, like, wow, I've missed this. This part of knowing, this understanding I've missed.

And it's so wonderful to see this innate behavior in it. So reminiscent. Maybe you could touch on that. little bit. I thought you were explaining it wonderfully. Absolutely. So I have a one-year-old or a 14-month-old, and it's so fascinating for me to walk

with him in the forest, to have him on my chest in the carrier. And he wants to go to the trees. He wants to touch the trees. He wants to smell the trees. He wants to explore them with the... He wants to crawl in the mud on the ground, you know, what children

do. So what you see is he's 100% in the present moment. He's 100% in his body. He is joyful from that sensation, from that exploration, from that curiosity, from that heart connection with everything that lives. And he even has one word for everything. He calls everything dada. So a tree will be dada, a cat will be dada, but all living things like a table wouldn't be a dada. So he definitely, this pre-thought, pre-conceptional way of being pure presence, pure heart connection, recognizes the rest of life and that he's connected

and that he wants to get to know it with his body, with his senses. And then, of course, most of us have, all of us have this. We come with this connection, with this heart connection, with this embodiment into this world to explore, to be, to connect. And then we lose it somehow. in the process of schooling and education and your family and what people put into your head. And it seems like in the second half of our lives, we kind of throw the programs, the programming, those concepts away. And we, most of us are asked or forced sometimes by the body

to find again, to find our way to connect, reconnect again with ourselves, with our inner nature, with the rest of nature, with other human beings in a loving way. I love the concept of inner nature. You know, because so often we forget about that. Like we forget, you know, there's that wonderful story about the scorpion and the frog

and the scorpion and the frog are down by the water and scorpions says, we've got to get across there. And he tells the frog, hey man, can I ride on your back? Can you just get us across? And the frog's like, no way, you're a scorpion.

You'll sting me. And so the scorpion jumps on the frog. Finally, the scorpion convinced them, look, I'm not going to sting you. I want to get across there. So just let me, just give me a ride, man. It'll be fine. I'm not going to sting you.

They get halfway across the river, and the scorpion stings them. And the frog is like, what? Why would you do that? He said, it's in my nature. That's what we do. That's what I do. We lose ourselves halfway through this whole unit.

So when you say inner nature, it makes me think of that story, but it also makes me think of the language of nature. Maybe you could speak to the idea of the language of nature and how it speaks to us. Absolutely. Yeah, that's actually one of my biggest interests to explore and to find language for that. Because if you talk to people, most people feel good in nature, right?

They recognize that they feel better, they feel healthier, they feel more connected, They feel the problems of the life situation seem to be smaller. You kind of get a distance from that. So people recognize that feeling. And I'm interested in seeing what is indeed the language that we, what's happening there? And there seems to be quite a lot of research already about the heart, the human heart. And the electromagnetic field of the heart that is actually to be found several. meters,

yeah, quite a big distance from the body. And every living being, so another human being, an animal or a tree or all living organisms have the

electromagnetic field as well. So we actually, before we found our language, the human language, the words that we use, we already communicated with the rest of of nature through this language and that was billions of years before and it's the ancient way of language and if you look at all ancient civilizations and groups they all say that what they learned about

plants for example plant medicine that they learned it from the plants themselves they didn't check google they didn't check books they didn't even hear it sometimes they could hear it from you know elder in the group, but usually they claim and they insist that they learned that from the plants themselves, and they actually mention something as the heart of the world. They learned that knowledge from the heart of the world. So that's the information that the electromagnetic field of the heart or of the tree is communicating. So that's one aspect of the language that I love. Yeah. And I know that you have experienced this and I have experienced it and I'm hopeful that some of my listeners haven't but for those that that haven't like there's something wonderful that happens when you find

yourself in nature and it's it's almost as if the answers are revealed to you. Regardless of what your problem is on some level you could sit by a battered coastline and watch the way in which the waves roll up onto the shore or you could sit into a forest and watch the way the wind whistles through the trees and then you can begin to understand like why maybe your relationship that you're in is going in the wrong direction or being ruffled a certain way or eroding something you know this this this harmony that just is revealed to you it's it's nothing short of miraculous yeah yeah and And this is a universal human experience. It's just that in our mind-based, brain-based society, we kind of reduce that.

Like, oh, yeah, that's just your imagination or that's just something. But we all, almost all people at some point will have this experience that nature is actually talking to you and that you get this indeed, this revelation, this inspiration, this brilliant idea. Even Albert Einstein, when they interviewed him, he said, well, I was, I'm a thinker, but the most brilliant ideas, including the theory of relativity, came to me after being in nature, after slow walks in nature that he was doing. And it's just amazing. So, yeah, you can experience it.

And then you have kind of a base to get back to, you know, when you're in trouble, you always know that you can go to nature and ask nature for help. Rest your system because we can only receive those messages when we are rested enough. So that's a powerful combination. That's why first bathing and echinidra are working with really resting the human being, the nervous system, calming the heart, getting out of the brain, basically, out of the thinking mind. And then you are receptive. then you feel the reciprocity, then you can receive all those, yeah, all this inspiration.

Yeah. What is your, maybe you could speak to your philosophy. Do you believe that we come out of this world? Are we part of nature? Does the earth grow people like an apple tree grows apples? What is your idea of us in nature? That's a beautiful question. I see us as a species as being kin to the rest of the species.

So we are one big circle and we are not better or superior than any other species. We don't have any more rights to be here. And yeah, one interesting thing is also we, of course, we see what human beings are doing to the planet, right? So that's a very difficult thing to kind of be with and to see and to witness and to feel the emotion of that. But at the same time, I think the earth is such an intelligent organism, such an intelligent being that she knows what she is doing. It's not a mistake that we are here, right? So it's really part of her evolution. It's part of her learning and she knows what to do.

So, you know, we can trust that as well. Yeah, the Mother Earth has all the time in the world. Yeah, yeah. So I think she's playing. I see her actually as a very playful being. And if you look at the evolution of the earth, then in each period there were species that were kind of dominating or that were, you know, on the rise.

And then after sometimes there were different species. So it's just her way to learn and to experiment and to explore all the forms and shapes of life. Yeah, that's beautiful. It's interesting to think that maybe we are a process in helping transform this whole part of it. You know, like we're a necessary process. And then there'll be a new process. There was a previous process. That's cool to think.

about it. I never thought about that. That's a beautiful way to look at it. How did you come up with that? Somehow, I heard it from the heart of the world. Forest bathing, right? From forest bathing, yeah. We, of course, we don't know, but I like this idea, this approach, because it makes me feel more at peace. Because if you see it differently, if you really see as some, you know, some people call human beings the cancer of the earth or the parasites or, you know, that is not a nice feeling to live with. And what it creates in me is paralyzed. I feel paralyzed.

I feel depressed. And I don't feel a positive motivation to change things in the world. So seeing it in a different way, seeing us as a part of the big picture, as part of the play, basically. helps me to keep my mental health okay and feel this positive connection to the earth and actually use that energy to try to change something to help. Yeah, I like that. I'm not a huge fan of the pejorative or the negative reinforcement to try and scare you into being better.

You should see the earth yourself as part of the earth. And then to think about it's really a pretty poor idea to hurt yourself. So why would you hurt the earth? Why not co-create with it instead of trying to take away from it? I think maybe this speaks to what you were touching on earlier about this strange sort of conditioning we get from the age of five to like 40 or five, you know, somewhere around, five to 30 or whatever people's time frame is. We really get lost in this idea that we are separate then, right? a weird kind of conditioning that happens to us isn't it yeah separate and alone you're alone for all the problems you're alone in this world and people don't get you the

society doesn't get you people are judging you and all that that's simply how the system is working right now and it's it's really sad indeed it's heartbreaking literally so usually there comes a point where either the body or the mind doesn't want to go there that way anymore and somehow they push you to yeah to remember what you are and what you're part of yeah it's so obvious when you find yourself out in nature and you see the patterns whether it's you know whether it's a small flower growing up to the cracks of a sidewalk and you realize like oh this is just they just tried to

they just tried to concrete over this but they still can't stop that's my thoughts like there's something brewing in me that's bigger and stronger than all of these conditioning and they can't stop it you know like

but you see the pattern maybe maybe a fallen down tree of like all this makes a nice bridge for me to walk over right there's so much language out there to see so much and I am a witness of that as a guide

in each walk each session that people when they are relaxed enough they notice these kind of things. So again, you need to be in a relaxed state and able to receive that, to even notice that because otherwise this thing up here is still going on and still thinking about your work and your relationships and everything. But once you notice, once you notice that,

then I've seen so many people connecting exactly those cues, like sand, warm sand, lying on the, scent and then the inside comes, I'm not a cactus. I'm not a cactus. And I'm ready for a relationship because I'm a plant or a being that needs water. I'm not a freaking cactus that doesn't need anything to thrive, right? So a therapist could never create this connection, but nature and being in nature, being receptive to those messages can create that or somebody that would smell the dirt, smell the forest dirt. And then all of a sudden you get this association with your grandpa living in a totally different

country, totally different continent, but that you felt connected to the land there and that you do want to provide or enable the same connection to your children in this country with this land here. And from that moment, you take your children to the forest every day. So it's just amazing. and it's happening all the time with different indeed, like dead trees are, for example, and an amazing source of inspiration because you see like, well, they're not dead. They're hosting.

They're enabling so much life to continue and to take just different shape, different form. Yeah, it speaks to the idea of, you know, I would say death and rebirth, but I don't think that's an accurate description. It just shows a different form. Like a fallen tree becomes a new form for the fungal, our fungal friends to grow on and create new life. And it's absorbed. Maybe the wisdom of that trees being absorbed into the to the mycelium.

It's spread around to the other trees. And, you know, it's fascinating. I think our friend Ben Palmer, Ben, thanks for hanging out with us, man. For those that are watching, Ben Palmer has some amazing writings. I would recommend everyone go check, click on his icon right there and check out what he's writing. He's writing some amazing stuff. He says, amazing discussion.

Humanity are in the moments of remembering that everything is oneness, which is love everywhere present. We are all part of the biggest event of all creation, 19 billion years in the making to remember we are all loved. To transcend fear, pain and suffering and return to unity and co-create new earth where only love exists. I see so much. Thanks, Ben. I really appreciate that. But I love where he's taking that. And I do see whether it's Randall, whether it's Dr. Randall Hansen's new book, Heel,

or whether it's the conversation you and I are having. But I feel like this new world is emerging and nature's voice is stronger than ever. Is that just because of you and I are on the same vibe? Or do you think that the clarion call is getting louder? It is getting louder. It is getting louder. And you can see throughout the years that in the past, you are some kind of weirdo hugging trees.

And now, actually, big organizations and companies are realizing that their people need this type of connection and that they need to go out and that they need to take care of their well-being because otherwise they won't be productive, they won't be, feel part of the team. So even like the biggest corporations are actually embracing that. And that's big because they're usually just profit-oriented. But it's becoming more and more mainstream. And it's also from when I'm talking to people, it's also coming from kind of this spiritual community

is also becoming part of life. It's not necessarily, it is spiritual, but it's only spiritual when you call it spiritual, right? So it's just the experience of being a human on this planet. and finding a way to, yeah, to thrive here actually. And yeah, there's a quote that I love that is saying that we are human beings. We're always looking for the purpose of life, like finding the meaning of life, the purpose of life. But what we actually crave is the experience of being alive.

And that's why people do extreme, you know, extreme sports, for example, or that's why people do things that alter your levels of consciousness, your perception, because if you're in the body, if you're, if this is switched off, then you can actually experience what it is to be alive, what it is to feel connected, to be love and live from that point. Yeah, I think it speaks to this idea of scarcity in abundance. You know, when we're just switched on in the analytical mode and we're working from this perspective of, okay, I got to make money. I have this bill coming up.

I can't leave this thing happen to me. This person doesn't. I hate that. I hate talking to this person. You know, when you're in that mode, you're in this scarcity mindset where you don't have enough. And maybe you do have enough, but like you're just not able to comprehend the miracle that you are currently living in. But then when you step back, especially in. in nature or different states, be it breathwork or plant medicine or there's so many different

ways in which you can tap into higher states or altered states of consciousness. At that point in time, it's phenomenal to see the other side switch on and you realize, wait a minute, I have everything I need. In this moment, everything's perfect. In this moment, I feel in love with everything around me. In this moment, it's beautiful. If you can just stop for a minute, and pull yourself in there.

And it's hard sometimes. Like, it's really hard sometimes to step out of the conditioning. But it's, you know, here's a question. When we talk about forest bathing and something that you do as a guide going out, obviously you have some incredible moments with yourself in nature. But what is it like to see someone make that transition? Like you get to see it as a third person. So you're watching it happen.

What is that like? That's amazing. That's a way of living. And that's where I'm doing this. because it's not in forest bathing, we say the forest is a therapist. It's forest therapy, but the forest is the therapist. It's not me. And the role of the guide is actually to open the doors of perception,

open the doors of the senses so that people can have these experiences. And once it happens and you're witnessing it without you facilitating or trying to make this happen, but you are just there holding the container, helping people slow down and get into that mode so that they can experience this. It's incredible. It's magic and it's so accessible as well, because you don't have to do anything. You don't have to travel the world. You don't have to do anything special or expensive.

You can really literally get into your backyard and do the sequence to help you get into the senses and slow down. And then you don't even have to be in a big forest. You don't have to be in some beautiful outdoors. You can actually have amazing experiences like these and insights and inspiration in your backyard. Yeah, it's once you figure out, it's like putting on glasses. What you see through that lens, you can kind of always look back and see that lens. Oh, this is what they were talking about. You start to see those patterns everywhere.

And it really is like learning a language. It's like learning to speak. language of nature and then you can begin to see those patterns everywhere it's a wonderful it's a wonderful way right absolutely and i see it as we in forest bathing we work with different senses so not only the five senses but the broader uh palette of senses and one of the senses is the heartfelt sense of the present moment and that's exactly what you what you were mentioning this like when i'm right here right now in this moment there is no you know there is no problem there are no troubles there is no frustration

it's it's right here right now and it's the heartfelt sense of the present moment so it's actually one of our senses it's an organ of perception our heart and but we don't train it we don't usually use it that much we can feel something when we meet a new person then you get a feeling from there or a new place makes you feel something somehow about it. But we train this brain here and we use the eyesight and the other senses, but we don't use the heartfelt sense, the heart sense that much. But you can awaken it very easily because of course we have it. We have it.

Our bodies have it. And once you awaken it, then that's what you mentioned, that you can train yourself. and like each time that you, because life happens, of course, we all have these frustrations and situations in life, but then you know that there's a place that you can always get back to. And it can be daily. You don't have to take a whole forest bathing session with a guide,

which takes three hours usually, but you can use elements of this and reconnect instantly because the heart is always with you, the body is with you. And nature, there's always nature. Like in the COVID lockdowns, we learned we were guiding people who were locked up in, you know, on the 24th floor somewhere in a big city. And they were getting crazy. And they craved nature and connection and that. But you always have the skies.

You always can look at the clouds passing by. You can open the window and feel the air in your skin. You can feel the sunbeams. You can, maybe you can see some trees just moving in the wind. It's about that. It's about directing your attention to that, slowing down. And then you're there. Then you're in the heartfelt sense of the present moment.

I love it. I think on some level, I had this idea that it seemed to me in my life that I felt like my sense ratio was changing. And I just, I was only thinking about the five senses. But now that you bring this up, of course it would be different. Of course, when you experience something with your heart and your eyes and your ears, it's like you're finally taking in the whole picture and just being aware. Like, I wasn't even aware of the heart as a sense. But as soon as you said that, like all these bells and whistle started going off, like, of course you're experiencing it through your heart. What is, is, are there other senses too that, that maybe we could talk about? Maybe you could, maybe you could, maybe you could

share some of those. I've never I've never really I don't know any of this. Yeah, there are subtle senses and it depends a little bit. There are different people have different lists so I've seen also a list of 55 subtle senses so it depends how far you want to go. But I work with nine senses in each session and so these are the five of course that we know but also the heartfelt sense of the present moment. you have something called proper reception which is just the awareness if you close your eyes you still know about the position of your body you know how much space you're taking in so that's the awareness of the body size shape you know orientation in space perception and you have the

interception which is the inner states of the body like if i'm hungry if i need to go to the toilets, the bathroom, you know, all these, that is also a sense. You have something called Body Raider, which again, we are not really using in this urban jungle, mostly, but for example, the native cultures, they can orient themselves in the forest in an amazing way. They feel the direction and they can sense the direction that an animal went, for example, without seeing it, without hearing it, but they feel into it, into the direction. So that's also, like listening.

You can also call it listening with the whole body, that you're not listening with just the ears, but really being receptive with the whole body as a sense, basically. Yeah, so these are some of the subtle senses that we forgot and that we are not using that much, but that can be. and awakens again. I've been seeing this sort of pattern in my life and some of the things I'm reading and people

I'm talking to. And it's this idea of rewilding, like on some level we're beginning to rewild. And it seems like the human condition, too, is following that pattern. And maybe that's, we're tied to it. Like, as the world is rewilding and reclaiming some of these city areas as people are fleeing the cities and the trees are coming back. and sometimes the wolves or the animals. It seems that we as our condition is rewilding too.

Have you noticed this? Yeah. Yeah. And it's amazing to see that. That's connected to the other conversation that we just had about people, that it's not spirituality anymore. It's kind of part of the human experience. And in that way, you see more and more people bringing more and more nature

into the indoor spaces, into their surroundings, and taking like cold exposure and really, you know, bringing the body back how it originally was meant to fasting. It's another way to reconnect with the innate wisdom of the body and it's part of all the cultures, all the religions. Everyone was doing it in the past and people are embracing it again. And at the same time, there's, of course, this other wave of people embracing artificial intelligence and a lot of technology.

So to me it seems like it's almost two parallel worlds coexisting together. So it seems almost as we were as if we were taking both of them and you just choose which channel you want to be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating to think about the way in which we try. and describe the things we create based on how we were created. Like, we're going to create artificial intelligence. Like, I don't know.

I don't know. I mean, it just, just the language around it seems wrong to me. Not like in a negative or bad way, but it just doesn't feel right to call this tool intelligence. It kind of seems like it's demeaning us in a way. Like, we are the intel. The whole earth is the intelligence. And this thing is a tool.

You know, it's not us. Maybe it's a reflection of us. And that's what scares some people. Like, this is things us. It's an extension of the mind. So that type of intelligent that might be. But that is supposed to be a tool and not a boss, right? Right.

So the wisdom intelligence, the deeper intelligence is the one stored in the body, in the cells of the body, in the earth, in nature. and that one is not so loud maybe, but it is much deeper. It knows what to do and it knows how to do things without being harmful for the rest of the species and the rest of the world. So, yeah, yeah, we'll see how it develops.

Yeah, I think it follows that pattern of conditioning that we spoke of earlier. You know, I know for me, later in, at the stage I'm at now, a few years ago, due to life itself, you know, the voice of my heart began speaking to me. And maybe it always has. I just never listened to it. But it seems so odd to me. And I'm still working through this. And I've gotten so much better at it. Like following my heart and listening to that voice and, you know, being my, allowing myself to be pulled in the direction in which nature is calling to.

But it's difficult at first because it's scary to let go. It's scary to listen to that and be like, are you sure? You sure I should do that? Do you have any tips or tricks in how to be more aligned and balanced and listen to that voice? Yeah, yeah. Thank you for describing that because that's the process that most people know, I think. And it is a process and it's hard at the beginning because your mind is your ego is pulling you back from that. it's saying that you're being unreasonable and that you won't work and it's not possible and you're

going to die and but and also other people so there can be people in your family people in your surroundings that are just worried about you yeah and in their perspective you seem to be crazy by giving up that job and you know stopping the way of living that everybody else is living so they can also be again the extension of the voice in your head but it can happen it can it's a practice it's definitely a practice and at some point you cannot cannot not follow it you cannot yeah you know it's it would be a sole killer to to go with the mind-based advisor and not with your heart so so you just follow your heart because you cannot do different differently but the way in between is practice and this can start with really small

steps and really small moments of bringing more presence into your life so like what you mentioned like this moment and I'm focused on where I can see what I can hear what I can feel on the skin of my body I can feel my body literally like focusing on the tip of my thumb can bring me back to my body at this moment and And I'm kind of recognizing that what is going up here is a pattern. It's a story. It's a narrative that I'm told to myself. And I don't need to follow it.

And I don't need to let it create emotions. And that's so that practice. It can be a long journey. But there is also acceleration on the way. So that's also what I've been observing, that then sometimes some kind of like quantum leap happens. Yeah. And you're there.

Mm-hmm. So it's not that you have to be working hard. That's also, that's just another type of conditioning that we get. Like if you want to reach something, if you want to change, if you want to heal, you've got to work hard. Yeah. Work all the time to fix yourself. No, not always. It can also happen just in the moment that you relax and sit down and watch a fallen tree, for example.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a really good quote that I like this, something along the lines of, inspiration is there, but it has to find you working. You know, it wants to see you work out. Okay, this person's working out. Let's help him out. A little back, you know, a breeze at your back pushing you forward. Like, it's there.

And it's just sometimes taking a moment to do the work. And I think that there's a force bigger than we can possibly imagine. It is constantly on the lookout for people that are trying to create positive change in their life and others' life. And when it finds you, it tests you. And it's like, okay, you passed. Time to come over here now. You did it. Congratulations.

That force is always there for people. And it's just, it's waiting for you to have the courage to recognize it and it and it in yourself. And once you do that, then that, for me, that that's how that voice in my heart began to sing to me on a level that was so wonderful that it made. made me want to continue to follow it. And it does grow stronger. And it does become a point where, okay, I can't not follow it now. And sometimes the directions are even scarier, but it's like, well, it was right last time. It was right last time, you know.

And pretty soon you build this playful confidence with like, okay, are you sure? Okay, let's do it. It's a wonderful way to live your life. And it's inspiring, too. When I see other people that do it, it's like, oh, man, it's so wonderful. How do they do that? And you talk to them and they give you these cool, tips and trips, like the stuff that you're giving me now.

And it's a beautiful language. And you can see it actually in somebody's body language. You know, these eyes when people are really doing what their passion is. Right. A dancer that is the dance and that is, you know, all totally, the whole being is in the body movement. And so that can also, yeah, that these people are great teachers. and I call them frequency holders.

I love that. They kind of, yeah, that's what they do. And some of them are pretty loud, so they can inspire many people. And some of them are pretty silent. So like, for example, artists that are totally in the flow of the present moment when they are creating, but they do not feel the needs to kind of be public about it.

But they are also frequency holders because they are the ones that are alive. with the present moment and with the deeper wisdom. And there are some authors that are calling this the earth dreaming. The earth is dreaming and knows exactly what is needed at this point of time. And then some human beings, as we crack, as we crack open, then the light gets in and we hear the earth dreaming. And once we align with that and we follow that,

then the earth is actually helping you on the way. So then all kinds of synchronicities and all kinds of, like, you know, things that are helping that you could have never imagined are happening. It makes me think, especially after this book that Randall and everybody contributed to so much. Sometimes I think that that is the purpose of trauma is to break us open so that we can learn from this. And like there's something thinks you're strong enough. It's time. It's time to break so that you can grow.

What do you think about trauma and letting the light? I mean, you can speak more to that. Yeah, exactly what you're saying. I think it's that crack. You know, that's also a quote. There's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in. And that's the crack.

Yeah. And yeah, some people need just a little crack and then all the light gets in. and some people, some souls need a bigger crack and or even more cracks, a proper one. But in the suffering seems to be the healing and in the suffering there's the wisdom and it kind of breaks. Because if we are happy all the time and there are no challenges, there is no growth and you won't change anything because why would we? Why would we, you know, put energy into finding connections and changing things if we feel happy with everything? So, yeah. It's interesting.

I find myself and other people that I speak to sometimes talking about tragedies or trauma. Just holding the idea that this is necessary is sometimes enough for me to get through those times. It's like, ah, this is necessary. This is a catalyst to help get you to the point. Like, you know, you start looking at nature, whether it's the consumption of a caterpillar is necessary to change its form or the snake crawling into the rough patch of dirt in the open to shed its skin. You know, like all these crazy things that you have to go through.

It's the signs are all there. Exactly. Even fires, like forest fires, can help some tree species. to finally grow and are necessary for the transformation. So exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that's what we get in trouble sometimes too is,

is desperately fighting off the idea that it's not necessary. Like, we can save this. Yeah. Resistance. There's distance. Of the mind, which, yeah, I call this the radical acceptance of the present moment. And that's also a practice because, of course, If you don't like it, then you want to change it.

You don't want to know. But that's the art of life, is to accept that as what you said, as a necessary part of my path, as something that you can actually learn to embrace, even if it sounds crazy at first, like being sick, being miserable, you know, all these things are very difficult to embrace. But for example, for my personal story, I had Lyme disease. And I think really that one part of my healing was that I actually talked to the Lyme bacteria and I showed my respect to the bacteria because it's incredibly intelligent. So I really like told her like, wow, you're, you know, you're actually amazing in what you can do.

And let's be friends. Let's not, I'm not trying to kill you. I'm not trying to, you know, to, I'm not, it's not a war that I'm declaring. Let's co-exist together. Let's be friends. And that actually changes the whole chemistry of the body because then you change from that inner resistance and that into a very different cocktail of hormones and a chemistry in the body that is actually friendly, that is actually at peace.

what what built up to that like was there a period of dismay or was there a period of being scared and frightful that finally led to that conversation of course yeah of course so yeah i don't know anyone who embraces it with love in the first moment like oh great that you're in my body and that i'm suffering and that i have no energy at all to live my life. Now, of course, of course. It was exhaustion. It was resistance. It was despair.

It was even like thoughts like, I don't want to live this life and more in this body, in this condition. And, you know, so a lot of struggling at first. And then somehow accepting messages from nature in my case, from the dragonflies. And finding ways that resonate that. you know that resonate that can help that can heal and trying them out and in the end i don't know exactly what helped it could be uh the deep relaxation that i was saying it could be this conversation that i was having it could be some herbal supplements that i was or maybe the mix and uh but

but all of them resonated and and it helped in the end i think on some level you know i know i i've found myself in situations where i've said similar things and i know the people that have. And probably if we're being honest, everybody goes through the dark night of their soul. They get to a point where like, I don't, I don't know if I want to be here anymore. Maybe they say it. Maybe they don't mean it when they say it. Maybe some people do mean it when they say it.

But on some level, I think about how profound that is because it's teaching you, you know, I really, maybe what's really happening is I don't want to be this type of person anymore. I don't want to be this anymore. Not necessarily that you want to leave, but like, that's the ultimate, you know, that's, the ultimate admission that you're going to change, right? Like when you get to that point. Yeah, exactly. It's, I don't want, if this is, if this is the way that I should be here for the rest of

my life, I don't want that. That is kind of, so, so either we change or we leave, but, you know, the suffering, the resistance is so big that, that has to change something, that has, something has to happen at that point. So, yeah. It's weird to think that at your lowest is when you may be making the greatest change possible. I guess it makes sense. If you peel back the peel it back a little bit, of course. Like, you know, you've got to hit rock bottom before you can figure out what you're going to be. Or if you're going to change forms, you have to fully live that form. I don't know. It's kind of esoteric but I think that that's sort of the language of nature is esoteric. It's symbolic.

It's it's it's more it's comes to the heart and the eyes and yeah. Well you mentioned the caterpillar that's such a such a great example like I can totally imagine being a caterpillar and not wanting this anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Or a dragonfly is actually a being that spends years in the mud and so so literally in the mud like metaphorically speaking you're in the mud it's it's it's it's there is nothing beautiful about it and you're stuck there and but during that time laying and rolling in the mud the wings the beautiful wings are growing and the the the the the caterpillar of the dragonfly doesn't know about that yeah so one day it simply has the wings and can fly and it's beautiful and it has all the freedom and it all happened down there

the mud because it was a necessary process. And it doesn't know. It's not like someone will tell you, well, okay, you just need to lay down in the mud and grow your wings. And that will be amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I, the one that spoke to me over the last few years was there's a, I have a vine.

it's a it is a there's a I have a really cool I've got a small backyard but it's all these cool trees and plants and I have this vine that crawls up this tree and I remember sitting out there

and just thinking like how does it know to climb that far up that tree and then produce this flower at a 47 degree angle on August 4th at 321 p.m. It knows there's this inner intelligence And I'll never forget thinking about that and then going, that's what's happening to me right now.

That's happening to me. No wonder I feel like dry. Like I'm crawling up the tree. I'm producing the flower. I am that flower. And then when you realize that resonance of like, oh my God, it's talking to me, right? It's showing me. You know, you just, you feel like the earth is just giving you a big hug.

Like you figured it out, man. You figured it out. You know? It's like, oh, part of it. of this thing. There's all the secrets right there in front of me and it's being revealed to me. And all these things, it's so beautiful to think of. One of the things I want people to read Randall's book and go to your site way back home and listen to some of the things you're doing. Because I think that on some level you're opening the door for people to experience

that, right? Yeah. And the experience is what matters. It's not a theory that you. that you read and then you say, oh, okay. But then nothing changes. You have to have this lived experience of exactly what you're describing with this flower. And that's how the rest of nature, through the imaginal sense, through our heart sense, is talking to us. And you just get to be there at that moment and receive that message. What if people, like, if people go to your site way back home,

like, what, like, maybe you could give us the story. story behind that site like how did that come to be the site um well way back home is um a broad name enough for me to you know like puts all the aspects of coming back home to yourself and to your inner nature so so that is course bathing that is echinidra that is mentoring in presence and self care to come to this home here um so yeah i was kind of building um um building the pieces that because it's pretty complex and it's very simple at the same time it's coming back to the present moment back to your body back to nature but there are different techniques that can help you do that and that you can apply in your daily life and of course at first it's helpful to have a guide so to either join the forest bathing or a remotely guided forest bathing that you can join from your nature wherever you are or to lay down into a for an Ikadhaasana and let yourself be guided or to have a mentor that can help you in the beginning. But in the end, it's a daily practice.

And it doesn't have to cost you a lot of time. That's what people think sometimes, so that you have to be in meditation for three hours a day and have like a huge discipline to do this. No, it's really small moments throughout the day that you recover. connect and remind yourself. Maybe you can speak to this, this idea that did you, I don't know how to pronounce it. It's the nidra. Maybe you could speak to that.

Like, is that something that you came up with? Or is it something that maybe you can speak to that? Like, how did that come to be? Yeah. So econidra is indeed. I call myself the mother of econidra. Yeah. That's epic.

So it's a blend of yoga. NEDRA and Forest Baving. And it's a very powerful blend turns out to be because forest bathing, we talked about that, so it's about connecting with nature, relaxing, getting into your senses and receiving

the reminder, basically. And Yoga Nidra is part of yoga, so it's an ancient practice and it's with yoga, people usually understand the physical yoga with Asanas, but Yoga Nidra is actually that you're laying on your back in the Shavasana pose and you are being guided.

So it's more of a guided meditation than yoga as we mostly we understand it. And Iconidra has three journeys. So the Iconidra teacher will guide you through three journeys, a journey through your senses, a journey, a pilgrimage through the body, and an earth journey where you're just listening. when you're deeply relaxed on the edge of wakefulness and sleeping and you're listening to a nature soundscape. There are also two moments that you're planting a heartfelt wish, that you're visualizing and feeling through what it feels like

when you're actually living it in that deep state of relaxation. And you're partnering for each session, you're partnering with a nature being. So it could be this plant here or the tree up. there, the sun here, or a distant landscape that I love, is something from my childhood. And they make this journey with you. So they are your witness, your partner, they know about your heartfelt wish that you planted in that session. And what happens is that your brainwaves calm down. They slow down to the theta levels. We are really balancing on this edge between

sleeping and wakefulness. And sometimes you can compare it to this moment where you wake up. And just a moment before you remember who you are, what day it is, what problems you have, the sweet spot before it kind of all gets downloaded. And then you realize like, oh, oh, yeah. I'm here again. So that's the sweet spot. And it's very relaxing and very delightful.

And if as an ICANEDRA teacher, you let people listen to pure nature sounds in that spot, then people get all kinds of associations and memories and journeys and come back at the end of the session, relaxed, but also kind of, yeah, empowered. So it's an energized relaxation, basically. And by planting that seed of the heartfelt wish, you can also change things on the level. of, yeah, from the inside, the invisible. It's amazing. The tools we have to fundamentally shape our reality

if we're willing to use them. Exactly, yeah. And some are powerful and like a major experience. And some are pretty gentle. Like, Econa is very gentle. And you can do a session, a recorded session. You can find a feature in the world because there's also this I'm running a teacher training, Econidra teacher training,

so there are teachers all around the world and they give sessions that are either online or in yoga centers, meditation centers, plant shops, outdoors, retreats, festivals. So there's kind of quite a lot already. And it's a very gentle and very nourishing way to reconnect with your inner nature. and this concept of inner nature, of this sense, has already been in the ancient Yoga Nidra. So it's not nothing that we came up with, but they already call it inner nature.

Yeah. The ecosystem inside and connecting with the deeper consciousness. Yeah, it's fascinating to think about the way in which something like that can can spread. You know, we were talking earlier in the conversation about mycelium, the way it grows, but so too do ideas grow like that. Like eco-neutral can be spread through,

like a seed on the air, spread into a new forest. So too can ideas be like that? That must be interesting to see it move and change like that, right? I cannot tell you how touching it is to see the teachers spreading the practice and then of course each one of the certified echinidra teachers have their own community they have their groups that they feel connected with so this could be cancer patients or it could be people with long COVID or it can be people with trauma or it could be kids or seniors or people and

their animals together and and they are spreading this and bringing it into all these locations and all these groups and as a mother of econidva it's just incredible to watch it yeah the ripples of it yeah it's really good to you i think i read in one of your books or one of your writing somewhere that as a young girl you would spend time in the willow office in top of a tree did you make like a spiritual some sort of like a spiritual deal where you're going to learn this thing and then spread it to the rest of the world. Maybe. Not consciously, but I don't know what my field communicated with the field of that area. Right. Some dragonfly and you made a deal on top of a tree when you were four. Like, okay, we're going to do this thing with your imaginary friends and like,

we're going to create this worldwide thing. It's kind of beautiful to think about. Absolutely. Yeah, that's a nice one. And then they forget for 20 years. Of course. And then you remember. Oh, it comes to you in a dream later. Or it comes to you in the drawing of your son when he's five. Hey, Mom, I drew this picture of you up here in this tree. Ah, it happens. Yeah, that's beautiful.

And yeah, it makes me think of the, they call it a pregnant point, right? It's like they, I think psychologists use this image that they show you. That seems to be like just a few black spots on paper. but then at some point you realize that you're actually seeing a giraffe, for example. So there is a turning point, which they call the pregnant point when you see like, oh, meaning in this. And then from that moment, you can never not see the giraffe again. It's never going to be the random mixture of spots on paper. And that's what we, that's kind of what's happening when you mentioned the flower.

or divine on the tree, right? So that's like, oh, and that's the pregnant point. And I will never forget it. It's a story that is alive in your body because you saw it. You felt it at the moment. And from that moment, it makes sense. And then each time you see it again, you're going to remember this message that it gave you. Yeah.

And it becomes a point in which the conversation continues. Now I see it in all, I see the aspects of different plants. You know, there's a great book by Jeremy Narby where they talk he's a, like an individual who goes down and learns from the indigenous tribe about their wisdom and the plants. And there's a term for that, but I can't think of the name of it. And he tells this story in his book about going down to South America and spending time with this indigenous. his people, him in a group of people. And the people there began telling him, like, oh, you know, we've learned all this because the plants told us. And a large portion of that group was like, okay, we're checking out of here. These people talk to the plants. We're leaving. But he stayed and

he listened and he learned. And, you know, they showed him like, let me show you how the plants talk to us. And he's like, okay, please show me. And they were walking way out and they showed him this snake. And one of the elders said, this snake, if it bites you, will kill you in a day. the venom is so poisonous. And they showed him the snake, and the snake was a green oval head with two white dots on it. And he goes, but look over here.

You see, if you get bit by this snake, then this plant over here has the anti-venom. And the plant has the leaf of the plant is shaped exactly like the head of the snake, and it has two white diamonds in the same spot. He's like, clearly you can see the plant talking to us. But so far, people in the West with a closed mind, it's go, hey, plants can't talk to you.

But if you just take a moment to listen to what the plant is telling, you or the people that understand how to talk to the plant. Yeah, it's totally talking to you. And you can talk to that planet. If you spend enough time in nature, you can go and see the way in which the insects are mining the leaves and being like, oh, this is what we're doing to the planet. I see.

Got it. He thanks for sharing that with me. You know, it's like, it's all right there. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's right there. And it's just about calming this brain up here, the thinking mind so that it's not blocking it. It's not blocking the receptors for that. Yeah, it's there for all of us to take part of.

And it's so democratizing to see, like, the answer's there for everybody. If you're just willing to listen and take time and maybe be willing to be called crazy, you have to be willing to have that happen to you, right? Yeah, and that's part of the process. So that's, you know, like walking barefoot, right? People actually secretly love it. many people, but they are kind of scared of being judged or being seen as crazy so they don't do it. And I have many people who then joined a group and then they say, oh, so I'm not alone.

I'm not the only one. People actually do like this. And it's actually from a point of view, it's crazy to have plastic shoes on your feet all the time and blocking this again, this way that the earth is actually harmonizing your body and bringing things into balance and communicating. So, yeah, but, but, but, yeah, you're, you're woo-woo, you're a tree hugger, you're crazy, you're rewilded or in the process of rewilding.

Yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful to think of. I am, I love talking to you. This is really fun. And I'm looking forward to maybe having more conversations and maybe we get a panel together and have more voices in the tent. and coming up with more ideas that would be a great time but before i let you go where can people

find you what do you have coming up and what are you excited about thank you yeah so that's a great idea so let's do this yeah um yeah so you mentioned way back home so that's way back home info which is my uh like an umbrella for uh all the practices and and ways to to to get in touch and to get back home. But you can also, people can also go to eConidra.com, which is specifically about Econidra and where you can find all the teachers around the world. So maybe there's a teacher close to you and you can join their session. You can also do the Econidra teacher training if you feel the calling to become the voice that

reconnects people and the earth. And, yeah, many exciting things. is coming. So the teacher training is, for example, being prepared to be in different languages. There are my dragonflies, my certified Econidra teachers are translating the training into Spanish and Dutch and different languages. So, yeah, things are coming up. And please feel free to connect. Always happy to, always happy to connect. Yeah, I would encourage everybody that's listening to this, whether you're watching us live this evening or this morning. or wherever you are, or maybe you're listening to the podcast and you're getting curious

and you want to find your way back home. Go down to the show notes, click on the link, reach out to Kat. Check her out in the new book by Randall Hansen, for those looking. That's what it looks like here. She's got an amazing multiple parts in the book that explain her story, how she kind of figured things out a little bit. And on top of that, she's got some great insights into the modalities that she helps train people with.

So I would point people towards that. The links will be in the show notes down there. And Kat, hang on briefly afterwards. I'll speak to you briefly. But to everyone that hung out with us today, I think our friend Shane Smith here sums it up beautiful by using the word brilliant. Thank you, Shane. Thank you, Ben.

And thank you to everybody who got to play a part with us today. That's all we got. Ladies and gentlemen, hello. Thank you. All right.