TrueLife - Keep Calm & Cope With Grief - John Allen

Episode Date: February 23, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/https://www.amazon.com/Keep-Calm-Cope-Grief-Chapters/dp/B09QK7RD3KThere are no words that can describe how the audience feels when they lose a loved one. With so many emotions running through their veins, it’s hard to focus on anything anymore. Written by the author of ‘Life After This’, this book delves into the details of how life and death are intrinsically linked. Your audience will be given an entirely new perspective on living with grief and that there is life after this. The author shares his own experience of losing a loved one, his own father, an experience that shrouded him in a ‘cloak of grief’ that nobody is truly prepared for. We all need to find our own ways to cope with grief, and this book will help us do exactly that. One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Fearist through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. We have a great show for you today with an amazing individual with a topic that if you haven't, been in contact with the topic we're going to talk about, then strap on your seatbelt because eventually you will be. We are here with the one and only John Allen, who wrote an amazing book called Keep Calm and Cope with Grief. We're going to get into a lot of his story and grief

and it's going to be a bit of a roller coaster. So before we continue to move down, John, did I leave anything out there? Is anything you want to add to that maybe intro to introduce yourself a little bit more? What do you think? Yeah, I'll stop by saying my name's Richard. Gosh, I'm so sorry. I am so sorry. No, no, no.

And it's important to note this. So my author name is John Allen, which is my dad. I use my dad's name in honor and respect for my father who I lost two years ago. So, but my name is Richard Allen. Okay. My author name is John Allen. Actually, my middle name is John. Richard John Allen.

So, but yeah, I wanted to use my dad's name as my author name. obviously being very special to me. So, but yeah, otherwise great. I'm glad to be here. It's beautiful. I love it. I love it. And so, you know, as before people jumped on you and I were talking a little bit about,

you know, after reading the book and understanding a little bit about your story, I didn't know whether to tell you, hey, I'm sorry or congratulations, you know, and maybe we can just take it from the top right there. It's an interesting premise. and I'll hand it off to you. Yeah. So what happened, George, it was really weird because I was working for an insurance company for 15 years.

I was really lucky and blessed. I loved the job. I got to travel America as a trainer. And I got to meet so many people, literally thousands of people, right? From California to Florida to Ohio, Texas, everywhere. And it was all free, right? I didn't have to pay. It was my job.

And I loved it. And then when the pandemic started, I guess it was early 2020, wasn't it? Certain companies, including the one I worked at, was making cutbacks. Anyway, they shut down the head office here in Raleigh, North Carolina, where I live, and I lost my job. So I was communicating with my dad back in Liverpool, England, and my dad has been my rock. You know, he still is. Even though he's passed on, he's still my rock. And I told my dad, and he said, you know, don't worry, son.

you'll find another job, everything will be okay. Well, shortly after that, I found out that my dad told me he had cancer. And of course, I was devastated and crushed. And me and my fiancee flew over there to see him. Straightaway, we spent a week in Liverpool. So this was, let's see, February 2020. So it was really just before the pandemic kicked in. And actually, I'll never forget, when we flew over there,

we counted 15 people who wore masks on our travels. And of course, at the time, you were thinking, oh, that's a bit weird, you know, people wearing masks. But anyway, we now know that eventually everybody would be wearing a mask at some point. So we got to Liverpool. We spent a week with my dad, and it was extremely difficult. It was great to see him and be with my family, but difficult because he knew he had cancer.

And basically what the doctors had said was, well my dad's words were I'm riddled with it my body is full of cancer there's nothing they can do they can put me on chemo radiation it'll slow it down but they can't stop it I'm gonna I'm gonna die and we spent that week with my dad and then we came back to North Carolina again in February 2020 and I think it was March wasn't it when the pandemic really hit in there was you know lockdowns and all this and a travel ban so I couldn't get back to England to see my dad. And going back to your opening comment, you know,

I don't know whether to congratulate you or say, I'm sorry, but not being able to get over to see my dad, I don't know whether that was a good thing or a bad thing, you know, because seeing my dad, if I'd been able to travel, no doubt I would have spent more time over there. I would have gone every month. But not seeing him might have protected me from the pain of seeing my dad deteriorate over time.

So it wasn't until November 2020, when my sister wrote to me, it was November 19th, I believe. And she sent me a text and she said, Rich, you need to get over. It's now. That's about to leave us. I was like, oh my God. You know. So I talked to my fiance, Allison. She was actually tied up with work.

She couldn't get time off. It was difficult. So I said, well, look, I'm going over there now. you follow over as soon as you can. So my trip over there, again, there's another story, really. It was like planes, trains, automobiles. I got a plane from Raleigh to London.

There was nobody on the plane. I think London Heathrow has four terminals, and three were closed. So there's only one open because nobody was traveling. And I was literally walking through the terminal at London, Heathrow, and I was pulling the suitcase. There was nobody there. It was like a sci-fi movie.

And I guess that added to the anguish and the stress I was feeling about getting to Liverpool in time to see my dad. I didn't know whether he'd be dead by the time I got there. With my sister saying, hey, he's passing. You need to get here. As you know, travelling to England kind of takes 24 hours. So I left on the 20th, but it wasn't until the 21st, the Saturday morning. I was at London Heathrow. I then got a train from there to Liverpool.

Again, it was empty. and then my brother-in-law Stephen picked me up at the train station and I was in his car and we got to the house and again I thought, am I in time? You know, I dropped the suitcase at the hallway, ran up the stairs, went into his bedroom and I got the shock in my life. He was sitting up in bed watching Weston.

Like he loves Clint Eastwood, right, and John Wayne. And I'm like, Dad. And he looks at me and he goes, you know, bloody hell, what are you doing here? You know? And I was like, I climbed up on the bed. And I squeezed them so tight. And I sat on the bed with him for maybe an hour just talking.

And he looked great. And I was like, wow. So my mum and my sister are there and we went downstairs, had a cup of tea. And they were telling me what was going on with the doctors and the treatment of chemo and everything. But two days later, he was gone. He passed. And I'm like, to this day, Georgia, I'm still in shock. It's like, how does somebody sit up in bed, eating his turn?

drinking coffee, whatever, and talking to me, and then two days later, he's taking his last breath, you know? It's amazing how life can leave us so quick. And thankfully, I was there, right? I was holding his hand. My mom was there, my sister, her husband and two children, my niece and nephew, Matthew and Rosie. So we were all there, holding his hand as he took his last breath.

And it was, it's still, in my mind, you know, it's still, I'm sure anybody who's lost a loved one will never forget those moments. I guess I am lucky to be there to see my dad. Yes. Pass. Yeah. Some people didn't get that chance. I know certainly during the pandemic, it was even harder.

But, oh my gosh. I mean, I was thinking about it before, and I've said this before to other people, there's two times, two occasions or two moments in my life that have changed me as a person. One was the birth of my daughter and the second was the day. death of my dad. You know, when my daughter was born, she's 29 now. And then, wow, it's a game change. If you're a father or a mother, you know, when you have a child, it's like, whoa, you change, right? Yeah. But the same thing when I lost my dad. When I lost my dad, it changed me. My outlook on life, I cherish every moment. I am spoiled with what I have around me. I'm totally lucky, even though I lost my job. And getting back to that point,

So we can talk about the funeral process in a little bit, but basically how I became a writer or an author was my fiancé Allison. So, you know, when you go through losing a loved one, so much happens, you know, whether you're organizing the funeral, the obituary, the eulogy, there's so much that goes on. You can't really help it, but you're collecting things. Like, you know, the prayer leaflet at the church or the, the details of the funeral home or the crematorium.

And at the end of this process, George, I had a file full of stuff. And when we came back to America after my dad's funeral, it was Alison, my fiance, who said, why don't you write a book? You know, Rich, for 15 years, you traveled to America, communicating, right, training people. You'd be great at writing a book.

Now, I shouldn't say this, but my English is terrible. My spelling is awful. If we didn't have spell check on a computer, I'd be in trouble. So she pushed me towards this, and I thought, well, I'll give her a go. So I started writing, and before long, I had my first look out, keep calm and cope with grief. And it was all about this process of my dad telling me here, cancer, going to America,

sorry, going from America to England, organizing the funeral, the eulogy and everything, supporting my mum, and my mum so important to me. And the same with my sister, Gillian. you know, it really does bring families even close together, right? And the love just got even stronger. And I put things in in the first book that can help with the people like how to organize the funeral, how to write the eulogy, the obituary, how to organize finances, how to look at the will, how to write your own will.

So it's all in that book. But also things like signs from loved ones. Like I could spend hours telling you how my dad is. has contacted me. It's creepy, spooky, but spiritual and I love it and I want more of that. So it's all in that book. And then the second book came along because shortly after me, anyway, I keep saying this in my opinion. For me and my story is after my dad passed, I want to, I'm a Catholic, right? I believe in heaven. I believe that's where my dad is. I know he's contacted me but I wanted proof I needed more proof I'm a very I think logic you know I want to see

I want to touch I want to smell taste I want to believe and I wanted proof so my second book life after this is all about I look at the history of civilizations whether it's the Aztecs the Greeks the Romans the Egyptians how they dealt with death and grief and honoring their loved ones how we do it today I also talk about the different religions whether it's Latter-day Saints whether it's, you know, Muslims, Islamic, you know, Catholic. And then I talk about how we today can contact our loved ones and how they can contact us. And I guess the key is to be open-minded.

You know, just relax with it and just think, okay, just be open-minded, let's see what happens. So the second book was about that, about how we can interpret signs from our loved ones and how we can possibly contact them. And then my third book, this side over here, is called Nature's Reach. That came up late last year.

So it's crazy, isn't it? I've never written a book in my life, and in 12 months I've written three, and I'm working on number four. But Nature's Reach is, and let me put a disclaimer out there. Doctors and therapists, counselors, are great for helping us with stress, with grief,

you know, I'm not trying to say we shouldn't take medication or therapy from those experts. The whole purpose of nature's reach is to simply explain that. God has given us a planet blessed with nature. And it can help us in so many ways. And one of those ways it can help us is through grief. And again, I'm very fortunate. I live on the outskirts of a small town and I'm surrounded by trees.

I live on the side of a lake. And my back window is a huge lake. So I see ducks all sorts of bits, bald eagles, I see deer, possums, squirrels, I mean, coyotes, you name it. And sitting out in the backyard is very therapeutic to me. And even the trees, the weather, it doesn't matter if it's sunny or it's raining, there's a thunderstorm. To me, it really helps me feel more connected with God, with life, with my dad, even with my dog. I lost my dog last year, which is a whole other side of grief. But that's what this book is about, nature's reach, is how nature is there for us too.

Anyway, I'll stop rambling now. I've gone on. But yeah, it's a bizarre story and journey for me. Never written a book in my life. And Allison has pushed me this way and I'm enjoying it. It's great to be able to share with other people, learn their stories. Even people who have had near-death experiences. I've spoken to people.

I'm like, wow, it's incredible. I am a believer that is life after this. That's just my opinion, you know? I do. I think it's a beautiful story. And as you were talking, I wrote down a few key words that got me thinking. Just in that short little intro, you know, I heard so many things that apply to the bigger picture.

And the first part was when you traveled on the airport, you were all alone. You got the Heathrow. You were all alone. The plane was empty. And isn't it weird that the environment you. found yourself in was also the way you were feeling. Like you thought someone was leaving you and here's this plane that's empty. Here's an airport that's empty. It's like the emptiness was not only inside you, but it was all around you. And when I think about the idea of being grateful for getting

to see your father, I once heard of a quote that has always stayed with me. And that quote is, the last job of a parent is to teach their child how to die. And what better way for you as a son or a daughter to come rushing into the arms of your dad because you're worried and he's fine, even though he's going to die and you curl up in bed next to him like you're five years old again. You know what I mean? Like that's such, it's so beautiful to me. It's like, that's how you do it. Like that's the lesson he's teaching you.

Even in death, fathers and mothers can be strong as long as we don't take the dignity out of dying. I just think it's an amazing story. That's so true, George. And I did feel like a five-year-old. When I climbed on that bed and I hugged my dad. Yeah. I felt so safe.

Even though I knew he was about to leave us, he's always being a strong man. Right. Mentally and physically and his arms around me, I couldn't feel any safer, you know. And just being with my dad, I just didn't want to let go. Of course. It's hard. I'll never forget this too. It was the day before he passed.

It was the Sunday. He was, we actually moved my dad from his bedroom. into my old bedroom because the nurses came with a hospital bed and you put it in my old room because there was more space. So my dad was in there when he passed. But he's lying in the bed and there was me, my mum and my sister and was standing with my dad, right, while he's lying there. And my dad looked at my mum and he took a hand. Sorry for it get upset. And he said to him, we did all right. Didn't we, Nandi? My mum's name's Nandi. My mum's name's Nandy. she's Portuguese and my dad said we did all right didn't we like you know we had a good life

before he passed and that was so my dad you know he knew his time his time was coming he knew and he wanted my mom to know that it was a good life yeah but it was a great life yeah yeah yeah you had all your family right there you know like and like here's another thing to think about too when you say you lost your job. I don't believe that that is a coincidence. It's like, okay, this part of your life is done. Move on. And maybe there were some signs before that that you should have been out of there.

Like, that's life taking you by the hand to being like, look, that part of you is moving on. We need the new rich to be inspired to do something else. And in that same introduction, you talked about two things that fundamentally changed the way you see life. And now was your father passing, your daughter being born. And where are you? You're right in the middle of that. Like you've become this bridge between the end of life and the beginning of life. So it's not a coincidence to me that all of a sudden, maybe you're writing these books

or maybe there's something writing these books through you for everybody else. You know, maybe you're that bridge. Maybe you're the catalyst to get this message out because what's happening to you is just for demographics alone. What's happening to you is going to begin happening to so much. many people so rapidly that it's it's a different time the the generation ahead of us is such a large generation and so many people are moving on to the next phase of life whatever that that is and I don't see a coincidence there I see that you being chosen to write these books to help other people in this story and it's this idea of grief it leads me to a question that I've written down

that I wrote down and I want to ask because I think it's relevant and it is how much of our grief is related to the unrealized dreams or the things that were unsaid to the people we love. Yeah, I mean, you know, I believe that it's certainly individual, right? Every person who goes through this, there's no two people alike. I mean, I know people who don't want to talk about the loved ones. It doesn't mean they didn't love them as much. You can't measure the love, right, or compare. But there's other people who want to talk about it.

And it's very individual. for sure. For me personally, I want to talk about my dad. I mean, I enjoy, even though I get choked, I upset as I just did before, but I want to share the stories. I want to share the times when, I'll be honest, I remember as a child,

he took his belt off, you know, and give me a spanking. That's okay, right? I love that about my dad because that's made me the person I am today. But I'll never forget the times when I've gone through life, difficult decisions, whether it be my first job,

whether it be through, you know, losing a job, whatever it might be. Even difficult times raising my daughter, my dad was there for me, giving me advice. But I think the grief that we go through just shows how much we loved that person, right? I mean, it's, I'd probably cry a couple of times a week. I mean, I can be outside mowing the grass. Yeah. And for no reason at all, I just think of my dad and boom. I'm crying, I'm sobbing.

It's just the pure love. that you have for somebody. And going back to what you were saying just there, I'm thinking, I mean, there's, I'm not going to say there's regrets because I don't want to live like that. Maybe there is, but I just don't want to live that way. But I know there's so much that I wanted to say to my dad,

and I just didn't. Yeah. Even those last two or three days, when I got there on the Saturday, and my dad passed late Monday, there's so much more when he was awake that maybe I could have said, I should have said to him,

but I didn't. And ironically, I think in one of my books, I know I've put this, and I've told people on, you know, on Instagram and Facebook, cherish the time you have with your parents now, all your loved ones. And certainly with my dad,

I wish I'd asked him more maybe about, you know, his school life when he was a teenager, you know, what was it like when he was growing up? How did he feel with his first job? And I wish it actually actually really, recorded it. Maybe not the video, but the audio. And it's really sad, George, because my fiance, Alison, she lost her father in 2021. He was 89, I believe. And great, great man, absolutely loved him. And obviously, I lost my dad in 2020. So knowing that Alison was about to

lose her father or, you know, being 89, I told Alison, record. Put yourself. Put yourself phone on audio, record it because you're going to cherish those conversations. And she did. And now she has hours and hours of audio of talking to her dad about what it was like when he was working, when he was in the Air Force, the American Air Force, you know, things like this. And I wish I had that of my dad. And I don't. In fact, the last audio I have my dad is voicemail. And it's about four years ago when my dad called me up on my birthday to wish me happy birthday. And it's about 13 or 14 seconds. And all it says is, hey, son,

I hope you having a great day. Love you lots. Happy birthday. Hope to see you soon. And that's it. But I love that. At least I have that. And of course, I've got some older videos

and photographs, but you can't have enough. You really can't. And I just wish I'd recorded more. But grief is such a complex thing, isn't it? I mean, it's like it affects you emotionally and physically. Like, I mean, emotionally, it can be happy one minute because, you know, you love your loved one.

You can be sad. You can be upset. You can be depressed. But physically, I mean, I used to wake out every day, right? I used to go to the gym. But when I lost my dad, I stopped and I've lost so much weight. And only last, I guess it was a month ago, I've started exercising again. I could pick up dumbbells,

100 pounds each, like 200 pound dumbbell, 100 in this and I'd be on the bench, pumping away at the gym, it's just stopped because the loss of my dad, I don't know what it was, it just shut me out.

So many areas of my life just collapsed on me and going to the gym was just one of those things. It's only recently, as I say, I picked it back up. But yeah, grief is, I've been lucky, you know, I had a traditional upbringing. I had my mum and dad and my sister.

My dad worked 9 to 5. My mum stayed at home to bring up me and my sister. And we were just that, I guess, and if you know anything about Liverpool, not many people there have a lot of money, right? It's a working class town. So what you have is a sense of humour. Yeah.

And that's what our family was like. Typical Liverpool family. We were always laughing, playing games like charades or monopoly, you know, things like this. Yeah. We walk everywhere. And I don't think my dad,

my dad got a car when I was 16 years old so we took the bus the train we walked everywhere because we didn't have a car when it was younger we used to get hand me down clothes and you know it was that's just the way it was but we were happy you know and that that upbringing of happiness

I guess made it harder to lose my dad but it's made me who I am today and my mom and dad were always helping people. You know, they give you the last pound or dollar. They give you some food if you were hungry. That's just the way they wear. You're always helping people. And I like to believe that me writing these books is helping people with their grief. Because it can be a really dark place. I mean, talking to so many people about the love they have for their loved ones. I mean, it's, yeah, it's a difficult topic, but this path I'm on, I wouldn't change.

it now, I really do enjoy what I'm doing, helping people. Yeah, I don't think you could change it if you wanted to. You know, when you talk about recording, like, it's, it's so fascinating to me to see the different patterns here. One is that you wish you would have recorded more conversations with your father, but like, what do you do? Like, you've written three books in a year. Like, if that's not recording something, I don't know what it is, you know?

And in a weird way, if I have, if I have an audio or a video recording of someone, then while there's definitely translation there, I'm taking in their words and I'm mowing into my head and I'm thinking about it. Sometimes a richer form of translation is being left with the memories that you have and you have some really strong ones. I've heard about them and then recording them

because you're forced to come up with your own mental picture. You're forced to translate that which you remembered into something that can be put out for other people to consume. You know, and sometimes I believe that it's necessary to forget in order to put out a picture that people can really learn from because you have to go in and do the work. You have to go in and find out what was it about my dad that really made me who I am today? And if you have the recording that, you know, those are his words, but they may not be his feelings. And so sometimes you get caught up in that translation.

So I would say that you're recording tons of it right there. And grief is really hard to do on the topic of life. It's also interesting to hear about the different life changes you've gone through as far as, you know, you had this job or used to go to the gym. But now you've found this new lust for life in a weird sort of way. Isn't it interesting that when someone dies, you find a new lust for life? Part of you dies. And then a new part is reborn and you have to mold this new part of you. How has that been for you?

Finding a new lease on life and these new things you're doing. Yeah, that's a good question because. You know, you do, I still have some dark moments, right? You know, some sad, sad days. But there's a lot more light or happiness in my life. And I'm certainly more grateful for everything that's around me. I really am. Yep.

But here's an interesting point. And this came up only a couple of months ago with my fiancé Allison. I said to, you know, we were talking about our dads and stuff and how much we missed them. But she's had signs, as I mentioned before, from her father too. And I said to Allison, I said, you know, I'm at peace. And she's like, what do you mean? It's funny because my fiance, Alison, she's a scientist. So she's very data driven. But she's definitely, since we've been together, she's definitely come around to the spiritual side. It's really cool. And she totally accepts it. And she's a believer now. And I said, well, I'm at peace. And she's like, what do you mean? I said,

well, I'm not afraid to die. And she's like, she got really concerned. And she's like, Richard, you know, what, what do you mean? I said, no, no, no, no. I said, they don't mean I'm going to commit suicide. Goodness gracious, it's nothing like that. What I mean is I know 100% that when it's my time, I'll see my dad and I'll see my dog. And I'll see all my loved ones.

I said, I get it now. I really do feel my heart is like full. and I know that the love is driving me to this belief and my belief is driving me to the love that I had from my father. You know, it's like, I know it's going to be okay. However, which way I die, whenever that time may be, I know I'll see my dad again. And that, to me, is exciting, but don't get me wrong,

I love every day of my life, right? And I told Alison that. I said, I love you, honey, you know, I said, I love my life. I'm, you know, but I'm just saying we're going to see our fathers again. You know, we really will. So it does. It's a strange change how it affects you.

And I think the important thing to try to do, and again, everybody's different, is to hold on to your life, you know, hold on to the things that you have that make you happy. and don't let this, I talk about it in the first book, this cloak of grief on its many layers because it can take you down a dark place and you don't want to go there. You really don't.

So if you need to talk to your neighbor, a co-worker, a family member, anybody or go to a chat room on Facebook or something, but just communicate. If you feel you need help, you've got to reach out. You've got to know your own strengths and weaknesses and don't let that cloak of grief smother you because it can do that.

And you've got to quickly realize, okay, I need to go for a walk with my dog or watch a funny movie or pour a nice glass of wine, you know, whatever it takes to give you a little smile, or go to the church and say a prayer. You don't have to go during the mass when it's busy. Go when it's quiet and it's empty. That's what I do. You know, go when there's no crowds and just sit there at peace. but whatever it takes, find that joy back and keep living your life.

What do you think the purpose of grief is? Well, there's so many emotions we go through, right? Up until losing my dad, I guess I didn't even know grief existed. I didn't know what it was, right? How could you? Yeah, I mean, I lost my grandparents when I was very young. So, yes, you know, it was a hard time, but I was five, six, seven years old. But losing my dad when I'm 54 or such, it's like, boom, here's this new emotion.

Yeah. And I'm like, what in the world? What do I do with this? And I was just, just a mess, you know. And looking back, it's hard to believe that I, that me and my sister stood up at the church to give the eulogy. How did I get through that 20 minutes? You know, it's like you're standing in front of family and friends. There was only 30 of us allowed because. of the pandemic but still we were in front of that crowd of people and but how do you get through that but grief is just yeah it's it's not an emotion obviously you want to go through but unfortunately i think everybody in time like you mentioned before you will face grief at some point and it's like what are you going to do with that you know and it's hard to be prepared for it to be honest it's and

And when I lost my dog last year, anybody who's lost a pet, I think, can relate to that that to me was a different grief. And I guess because pets are like babies to us, we feed them, bathe them, take them to the vets when they're ill, you know, without us, they couldn't survive, I guess, but it's different with our parents because they're independent. But when I lost my dog, holy, I mean, wow, that was just, and I kind of felt guilty, George, because I thought, why am I feeling more grief for my dog than I did for my dad? Does that make sense?

It was weird. I mean, my dog was my, he was my best friend, 24-7, we were together. You know, we went on vacations together with Allison. He was around the house. He'd be here next to me right now, sitting by my feet. You know, I miss him every day, too. A whole different level of grief. But I did feel guilt, and I talked to my mom about that.

It's just weird. again, grief, I guess, has these many layers, you know. It's a, it's a tough emotion for sure. It is. It is. It's as I've gotten older and, and I just thought of this idea that grief is an acquired taste. You know, when you're young, you don't, you don't know it. You can't, you know, it's like your first sip of beer.

You're like, this is disgusting, you know, but or even wine for that, Matt. But then you get older. Yeah. And, you know, a little bit. of it can make things, it can show you a different perspective. Yeah. And so I don't wish, sometimes I don't wish anybody to feel the negative emotions of grief, but I do wish that people who eventually feel grief understand the positive effects

that can come from it because you can become a newer person. And the bigger, the tragedy that happens to you, the bigger opportunity you have to learn and become the best person that you could possibly be. I think these these tragedies that happened to us are momentous occasions to learn about who we are, but more than that, to teach those that we love later in life. And we had spoken earlier about the job of the, the last job of the parent is to teach their child how to die. And what you and I are going through in our, you know, somewhat middle of age is these difficult lessons that now we're ready to begin learning. You know, Sometimes we think that we've become an adult and we've learned so much.

But the truth is you never stop learning. And the older you get, the more difficult the lessons become because you've mastered all these other ones. Or hopefully you've begun to master them there. And it's an interesting thing to think about. On the topic of animals, I think that animals provide us with this unconditional love. So when they pass, you're feeling a different layer of grief. I love the way you put that as layers because it is a different layer. When you start thinking about a loved one, be it a child,

or a father or a mother or an aunt or an uncle or someone that raised you, there's a lot of moving parts in that grief. It's not just unconditional because it, you know, you have to mix a little bit of anger. Sometimes it's a little shred of hatred in there when you were out of control and guilt is in there. And like, how do you square all these things? It's like this beautiful, colorful mathematical equation that you can't quite make sense of. And it's overwhelming at times.

But I think you've done a good job, at least in the, in the much, as much of the books that I've read, it seems like it was a real labor of love and the motion comes through and I mean, I think the people who are finding themselves in difficult moments should read these books and check it out. What was the process like? If we just take it back one step, you've kind of mentioned that all of a sudden in the 12 months, like three books have been written through you and you've sat down and you've done that. Is there a process that you go through? Is there something, do you go out to the balcony or is there a place that you ride or do you harness any motion? Or what does the process look like?

Yeah. Well, initially it's just like lots of notes and scribble. I have post-it notes all over my desk. I love it. Allison's awesome. She bought me a nice journal from Barnes & Noble. Just a notepad. And I take it most places.

And I'll just write down a comment or I'll be watching a TV show. there's a great show by Ricky Juvace. I think it's on Netflix. I love that guy. I love Ricky. Yeah, I don't know if you've seen it. I think it's called Afterlife. I mean, it's on Netflix.

Yeah. And it's a great show. I think there's two seasons. Anyway, Ricky plays this guy who's just lost his wife to cancer. So he's left all on his own. He has no children, but it's him and his dog. and he's close to suicide. He's just lost it.

And before his wife died of cancer, she did these video recordings and he watches them on his laptop every day, a different video every day. And he just goes through life initially fed up. What's the point? I don't care. You know, my wife's gone.

What's the point in my life anymore? Without giving it all away, it's just a great show. I mean, it's typical with Ricky Jervais because there's funny moments. It's hilarious, but it's dark and it's meaningful. And one of the things that I really like, George, in this show, is that when he goes to the grave,

he goes to the graveyard, the cemetery, to see his wife's tombstone, right? And he's sitting on the bench in front of the grave. And on another bench next to him is this woman who's sitting across from her husband's gravestone. So Ricky and this woman make this relationship where they're just sharing things. And it's such a lesson.

Like Ricky learns so much. His name's not Ricky in the show. I forget what it is now. But he learns so much from this woman because she's a little bit older, a little bit wiser. And she's telling him, it's okay to feel that way. But you need to keep going. You know, your wife would want you to keep going.

she would want you to be happy. So this lady's got all this wisdom and all this knowledge and she's giving it to Ricky. And you can tell when he gets up from that bench and he walks away, he's better for it because that lady has shared her experiences and knowledge. And I love those segments in the show.

You know, it's really cool. And I like to think that's partly what's in the books. Yeah, absolutely. I tell people all the time, if you want to, it's good to talk. It's good to share your stories. And I tell people, if you're going to buy a copy of my booth, please leave a review on Amazon, but leave your story.

If you want to, leave your story because it helps other people deal with their grief. And they'll share their stories too. And it's just, again, very therapeutic. It really does help us all. I think as humans, we need that love. We need that communication and that openness. And I think it shows how vulnerable we are, right? because our heart is bleat, you know, it's wide open there.

We're in such pain for that loss to actually talk about it. It's very intimate. You're really letting somebody get as close as they can to you when you talk about something like this, I think. And I truly believe it does help in the healing, for sure. But, you know, even today, I was thinking about this this morning. I still send my dad a birthday card. It's been two years.

I still, like Christmas just gone, I sent my mom and dad a Christmas card. You know, just because he's not here physically doesn't mean he's not here. Yeah. So, you know,

his birthday was in September. I sent him a birthday card, you know, and my mom gets it over there. She opens it and she puts it on the mantel piece in the living room with, with other cards or whatever, you know,

and I still do that. Just because my dad's, like I said, not physically here, he's still my dad. And that day was still his birthday, right? So I'm going to continue to send Christmas cards and birthday cards. I'm wedding anniversary cards to my mom and my dad. It's just something I do.

Yeah, celebrate that day, right? I mean, regardless of, in a weird way, even when you lived in America, you were sending them a card, you weren't seeing them. So it's not that really anything's changed. No, that's right. I couldn't see him, but every year, I've been in a medical. now 21 years or something, I'd send him a birthday card, right? And it's no different now.

You know, when I actually, you know, 21 years ago, my last day in England before I actually emigrated, we were at my mom and dad's house and I was having a drink with them and my sister was there. And my dad took me into the kitchen and, you know, we'd had a couple of whiskeys and you looked at me and he said, I can't believe you're going to America. You selfish, selfish little boy, you know. And I was laughing. I was like, oh, come on, dad.

He goes, you know, the only way I can cope with this son is if I tell myself that you're going on a vacation and that one day you'll come back because I can't accept that you're going to America and I'll never see you again. And I told him, I said, Dad, I'll come back. I'll see you.

And he was, well, I just have to believe that you're going on a vacation right now because this is too much for me. And it was a strange way of him thinking of it that way. Yeah. But that's what it took for him to cope with his son, me leaving and going to live in America.

And I didn't know when I was coming back. But that's what he told me. And in a roundabout way, I get it now. Of course. But at the time, you know, he used a couple of other curse words at me. But that was my dad. And it was all through love, you know.

But yeah, it's funny how people react with stress or strain or depression or grief, you know, what we have to do. But we have to do it and we have to get through it as best and as peacefully as we can, you know. And it's okay to talk to your friends, family and neighbors, you know, or sit somewhere quiet, you know, do whatever it takes. But yeah, it's a tough journey. It is. It is. I've found too, like, do you ever, I heard a story once. A good friend of mine, David Solomon is a good friend of mine. He was recently telling me about his aunt that had passed away. He was really close to her and they had all these great memories together and the day of her funeral. They had went to the funeral and he had said a few words and the group had dispersed and he said that he was walking back. to this car was a it was a he had to walk through this park and it was a 15 minute walk and he was just thinking about his aunt and as he was doing that this butterfly came floating by and landed on

his shoulder and he looked over and then it flew off and he's like there's my aunt coming to say goodbye yes you know and so when you start talking about these signs and this way in which nature and those who have left us continue to talk to us like you know i think of things like that i'm sure that all of us hopefully all of us have our mind open enough to have this communication or have these things happen to us. But maybe you can share some of the stories that you have talked about with signs and talking to your...

Uh-oh. There's so many, George. Oh, my gosh. And again, being open-minded, right? I know I have my belief and my faith, but being open-minded, when you look at these instances, like you just shared there with the butterfly, what are the chances that a butterfly would land on the shoulder?

It's got to be, like one in a billion or something. You're right, right. So, oh my God, which ones can I share with you? Dude, there's so many really is. Okay, I'll tell you, I'll be as quick as I can. Take your time. Well, this is back in 1919.

I was a single parent. So my daughter, Jessica, live with me basically all the life, right? And she was about six years old. We were still living in Liverpool. So we're living in our house. me and Jessica, and I put Jessica to bed at nine o'clock. I went to bed about one o'clock, right? I'm lying in my bed, and I hear this little voice from her bedroom,

Daddy, can I come into your bed? I'm like, here we go. I said, yes, come on. So she comes across the hall, you know, and she climbs into my bed and we're going to sleep. And then all of a sudden, I heard this voice in my bedroom, and it went, Richard. It was like, I don't know,

like the devil. It was the evilest, if you could envision, like what the sound would be like of the devil, it was like that. And I sat up in bed and I looked at the bedroom door. I looked around the room. It was all dark.

It was all black. And I was like, what the? And I thought, well, hang on. Maybe it was falling asleep, right? But then I looked at Jessica and she was wide awake and she said, Daddy, what was that? And I thought, oh, she hated it too. So I said, oh,

It was a dog outside, just go asleep. So she did. And I lay there looking at the door for like 15 minutes before I fell asleep. So the next day I'm walking Jessica to school. And I said to her, hey Jessica, you know, did you hear something last night? And she went, yes. I said, what was it? And she said, somebody called out your name.

They said, Richard. And I was like, okay, well, have a good day at school. You know, and she went to school. And I got in my car and drove to the office. I, you know, was working at another insurance company then. And that, I never forget, that was on a Wednesday. Now, on the Friday evening, she went to her mother's for the weekends, right? So Friday night, I'm home alone, and I had this nice hot bath, bubbles and everything.

I had a glass of wine. I was playing some music. I lit some candles. You know, it was a weekend. I love my daughter, right, obviously, but having the house to myself was real nice. and I'm lying there. Anyway, I heard the voice again. But this time it was quieter.

It was Richard. Richard. Richard. Three times. And it was like, come here kind of thing. So I jumped out of the bath. I put my robe on, ran around the house.

Everything was closed. There was nobody in my house. So I picked up the phone. I called my mum. I said, Mum, you're not going to believe it. I've just heard the voice again. And she went, get out.

Get out of the house. She's scurrying out with that. She said, come to our house. you can't stay there. And I was like, no, no, no. I said it's fine. Anyway, I went to bed that night, and it's the only time in my life

I actually locked my bedroom door, which makes no sense, right? Because if it's a ghost, it's not going to be stopped by a door. Anyway, so that was on the Friday, and then it was the following Monday, I heard the voice again, and this time I was in the kitchen,

and the voice was upstairs, and it just said, Richard, and I just ignored it. And that was it. So you fast forward six months. And my cousin, I have a cousin called Stephen. And he was telling me that his wife was having a psychic at the house. And I said, ooh, I've never been to a psychic before.

I'd like to go. And he laughed at me. And he said, they're all girls that are going. You'll be the only guy. And I was like, I don't care. I'd like to go. So I went. And sure enough, I get to his house.

It's full of girls all waiting. And the psychic was in the kitchen. and one by one we go in and sit with the psychic. So it was my turn, I go in. And again, George, you know, being skeptical, I didn't want to give her any clues. So I just went in, I sat down at the kitchen table, shut the door, sat down,

and I sat there with my arms folded, just quiet. And the first thing she did was she started laughing. And she said, I'm so sorry, I'm not laughing at you, but there's a man standing behind you. He's a tall man with a long coast. and he's got a flat cap. And he's standing right behind you.

And I was like, okay. And then for the next 20 to 30 minutes, she told me everything about my life. It was insane. I took notes. I wrote it down. I still have the piece of paper. She told me that I'd moved to America.

She told me that my grandfather had worked in the United States, had worked in America. She told me about my grandma having a bad leg. She told me that I had a daughter. Okay, it's 50-50, right? You either have a boy or a girl. But she said that my daughter was involved in art, but not with painting or drawing, but with dance.

And she was. She was in a dance troupe. She told me all of these things that nobody could possibly know. And at the end of the session, I said to her, can you tell me more about this person behind me? And she said, yeah, it's your grandfather. and I said, oh, I said, well, I've heard this voice in my house about six months ago, and she said it was him.

I was like, oh, well, why would he try to scare me? And she said, he's not trying to scare you. He's trying to wake you up. He's trying to tell you that you go in nowhere with your life. And he's trying to shake you and say, you know, you need to make some changes and that you are going to move to America. And I was like, anyway, two years later, I was moving to America, right?

It was just weird. But after that session, George, right? I went to my mom and dad's for dinner. And I walked into the house and I sat down. I told my mom and dad everything this lady had told me. And I said, it was my dad's dad, you know, my grandfather. I said, hey, dad, did our grandfather, did my grandfather? Like, did he work in America?

Because she said he was a tall man with a, you know, long dark coat, flat cap. He was a man's man. she said he would like to, he commanded respect and he was very strict, but he regrets it now. She was telling me all of these things. So I was like, so I told my dad, and it's the only time in my life I've seen my dad look scared.

I told my dad all this and he was terrified and he went, stay there. And he went upstairs, he came back down and he handed me this photograph. And I wish I had one of the books with me because it's in my book. And it's a picture of my grandfather on the Woolworth's building in New York on the top. Because he was one of the guys from England that came over to help build the building. And I'm like, how would she know all of these things? And my dad said, yeah, he was a man's man.

And he was very strict. And he did regret it. I know that. But how would this woman know all of these things? and she even told me that my grandfather would like to finish work, go to the pub and have a drink, just one drink with the men before he went home to the house. And whenever he walked into a room,

somebody would give up a seat for him out of respect because that's the kind of man, the statue that he had. And my dad looked at me and he went, oh my God, yes, that's exactly what he did. He used to go for that drink and he did command respect wherever he went. he was that kind of strict person. And I was like, how did she know?

So again, that made me believe that some people are gifted. Oh, I'll tell you that real quick on this other story. I'm sorry to ramble. Not at all. It's beautiful. At the end of this session, right, the psychic looked at me and she goes, Richard, you've got the gift. And I said, excuse me?

And she goes, yeah, you can do what I do. You can communicate with the afterlife. I was like, no, I can't. She goes, no, you can. And I was like, I just thought it was funny. I told my cousin, he laughed and that was that. So let's fast forward since that time. It was another 10 years.

I was now living in America. I'll tell you this one last story because this one is crazy, right? This is relating to your butterfly. So I come to America with my daughter, Jessica. She was eight years old at the time. And we made friends here, of course, right? and one of the friends that made was a couple who were Italian and they had two boys

and sadly they lost one of the boys. He drowned in North Carolina. His name was Luca. He drowned on one of the beaches here in North Carolina. And she decided after that losing her son, she was going to move back to Italy. So they left, they went back to Italy. A couple of years later, she wrote to me by email

and she said, hey Rich, her name was Simone. she said, we'll come back to the United States to see friends and such. Would you like to get together for dinner? I said, yeah, sure. So it was a Friday night. She wrote to me and she said, we'll meet at such a place for dinner. So we did. And the restaurants had like an outdoor patio where you could sit out.

So we were sitting outside on this patio, having a couple of drinks and just talking. And she was talking about Luca, you know, the son that she lost. And I don't know what it was, but when I got home that night, I said goodbye, you know, and everything. I got back to my house. Jessica had gone to bed. And I'm sitting in my living room. All the lights are off. Everything, TV, everything's off.

And I thought, I don't know why. I'm going to try and talk to Luca. So I said, Luca, if you're here with me now, give me a sign. And I got this cold, instantly, this cold air blow on the back of my neck. Oops, black on the back of my neck, on the back of my neck, right? Blow on me. And it freaked me out and I was like, whoa. And I looked around, you know, the ceiling fan was off.

But again, being logical, I thought, well, it could have been anything, right? Could have been anything. So I went to bed. That was the Friday night. Saturday morning, I get up, I'm in the backyard and doing some yardwick. It was a gorgeous day. And I'm pulling up weeds in the backyard. And out of nowhere comes this huge black butterfly, like as big as my hand.

And it's doing this, you know, and it nearly hits me in the face because I'm kneeling down. I'm on the ground. And it comes right in front of my face. I pulled back. I was like, whoa. And I watched it as it flew over my deck and it went into the neighbor's yard. Massive black butterfly. It's like, what was that?

Strange. I've never seen a butterfly in my yard, right? So later that Saturday, I get another email from Simone. And she said, hey, my plans have changed tonight. I'm free. Do you want to get together for another dinner? I was like, yeah, of course. So we went out to dinner again

And we're sitting there talking And in the back of my mind, George, I'm thinking Do I tell her? Right That I called out Luca's name last night So I did, I said, Simone, I don't mean to upset you But I did something a little silly last night

I was sitting at home, I called out Lucas name And I got this cold chill on my neck And then this morning I was doing yard work And this big black butterfly Nearly hits me in the face And flew away And she looks at me And she starts to cry.

And I'm like, I felt so guilty. I felt, oh, what have I done? Stupid boy, I shouldn't have said anything, right? And she's sobbing and sobbing. And she leans down, reaches into a handbag. And out of a handbag, she pulls out a photograph of Luca. Sorry. And she shows it to me.

And it's a picture of Luca like this. And he's got this big, black butterfly on his finger. And I'm like, oh my God, what are the chances that I call out his name the next day of black butterfly nearly hits me in the face. And I tell this to Simone and she shows me a picture of him with the big black butterfly on us. So I said, do you think it was him? And absolutely. She said, absolutely, that was him letting you know that he was trying to contact you or let you know he was okay. Yeah.

And I'm like, I don't know, dude. These signs, they happen at random times, right? But they do happen. And it's always that but. You know, you can say, well, it's just this or it's, it's just a random event. But what if it is on loved one, send him this a sign? I can't dismiss that. I honestly believe it is because too many things have happened.

I mean, in the middle of writing my second book, life after this, I was like sitting here at my desk, right? And I was burnt out. I was, oh, you know, I needed a break. And I was missing my dad, of course. And I called out in this room. I was sitting right here. And I said, Dad, I miss you.

I love you loads, mate. I just miss you so much. I love you. I hope you're okay. And then I'm on the computer. And I guess most guys might do this. But I started looking at trucks and cars, right? That's what we do.

Right, right, right. And I pulled up this website. I think it was car gurus or something. And there's thousands of trucks. I picked on a truck by random, right? And he had 41 photographs. And I'm going through the photographs. And it shows the back of the truck, the side, the front.

And it shows the interior. Now, this one picture showed the dashboard. And you know the infotainment, the touchscreen thing on the dashboard there? You could see there was a radio station on there. It had the time, the date and everything, the radio station. and it had the name of the song that was playing at the time the picture had been taken. And the name of the song was, I am alive. And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me.

Literally, two minutes ago, 120 seconds, right, two minutes. I called a minutes ago, I called up my dad's name and dad, I hope you're okay, whatever you are, I hope you're okay. And two minutes later, I see a picture on my computer screen that says, I am alive. Now, coincidence, I've got no idea. I took a screenshot. I kept the picture.

I was going to put it in the book, but unfortunately, for copyright reasons, I couldn't do it. But I've still got the picture. But what are the chances? I didn't even know there was a song called I Am a Lie. But apparently there is. But it's stuff like that. It just blows me away that we can get these signs.

And it means so much. So I cherish those, for sure. But there's loads. I could tell you. Yeah, so many. It's crazy. Yeah, I wish, sometimes I think that we need to redefine what it means to die. Like, it's such, it has like this taboo around it and nobody knows what that means. You know, I often think about, I was talking to someone last week about the idea of how life works on our planet.

And, you know, let's take butterflies, for example, like the silkworm or a worm spins its web into a cocoon and get. it's caught in there and then it changes its form and it breaks through the detritus and emerges this new form like why would that be any different for us like why wouldn't this world we live in and if you look at the language we use like we spin this web of words around us for 50 60 70 sometimes a hundred years we we build up this little environment right around us and sometimes it has loved ones and but most of us build up this little environment and inside this environment that is our our lives. It is our day-to-day things that we do. We are changing our form constantly from child to adolescent to adult to a little bit elderly. And in doing so, we're changing form the same

way a caterpillar changes its form. And sometimes you can catch a glimpse, like, you know, whether it's whether it's the butterfly that that flies next to you or whether it's the picture that you see in a truck or maybe it's the image that you see in a cloud or, you know, you you know, so many people have had such similar events happen to them. It is as if we are communicating or beginning to learn how to communicate on a level that we don't thoroughly understand. And it just seems like metamorphosis is a better word than dying. What do you think? Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. And I was chatting with a guy on Facebook. He left a comment. And again, I respect people's different points of view. But he said, he said, no, you're wrong. He said, you're born. He goes, you're born.

You die, that's it. There's nothing, right? And that's okay if that's what you believe, right? But there was other people who replied to his comment, and I did too. And I said, well, I respect your opinion and your comment. But certain things have happened to me, these signs, I can't explain them. So my belief, my Catholic upbringing, you know, at one point in my life, I thought I was going to be a priest. And that's a whole other story.

But my belief tells me, yeah, there is life after this. There is a heaven. This isn't the end when we die with this body, this being, this, you know, physical being that we're in. But yeah, there is life after this. And to think that there's nothingness or however you want to describe it, I just can't get my head around that. Like you said, I mean, there's life.

It seems too vast, too complex. Right. And it's funny talking to Alison. And this is just my opinion, right? But Allison said, when my dad died and your dad died, Rich, how can you say your dad is here now? Why wouldn't your dad be in Liverpool with your mom?

How can your dad be in two places at once? And I said, that's a great question. And I love these conversations we have, you know? And I said, well, here's how I see it, Allison. And I don't know. I don't know, right? I've got no proof. but I'd like to believe that when we die,

we become one with the universe. So we're thinking about it as like a time and a place as to when we die, but I don't think that's the way it is. We're like that now. Here's Richard. I'm here. I'm in North Carolina.

I'm sitting at this desk right now. But when I die, it's like a puff of smoke. I'm suddenly everywhere, you know? So I could be, I can be, I believe I could be part of the universe and I can sense, feel, and absorb the love

from my mum, my sister, you know, my daughter, from Alison, if I was to pass before, or any of those people. But I would be able to take it in whatever they are and know what they're going through all at once, simultaneous, right? It's not like, oh, excuse me a minute, I have to go over to Liverpool to be with my sister and then I'll come back to be with my daughter. We're looking at it the wrong way.

But I love those conversations with Alison. Yeah, it gets, it's really cool. And again, it's your own opinion, right? But I cannot believe that this is it. We are born, we die, and there's nothing. Like that guy said, I respect that opinion, but there's just too much, too much that's happened. I mean, when we first went over, George, to see my dad,

when he first told us he had cancer, and Alison and I flew over there in February 2020. For some reason, we ended up in the front yard one day, and it was raining, and there was a double rainbow, two rainbows. And you know what rainbows are like? They're huge, right? They're way up in the sky. As far as the eye can see kind of thing, all the way that way, huge.

And Allison said, maybe it's a sign for your dad. The chemo's going to work. He's going to survive. Well, obviously, it wasn't that kind of sign he did pass. Well, fast forward two years, last September for his birthday, a week before his birthday, I had a birthday card. And it was raining here at the house where we live. And I walked down the driveway. I put the card in the mailbox.

And as I ran back to the house because it was pouring down, I came into the house. And suddenly the rain stopped. The sun came out. And I said to Allison, I'm going to go outside and look for damage because there was a lot of wind. the trees were going crazy. Anyway, I went outside, and I couldn't believe what I saw. There was a rainbow in our backyard.

Like literally a 30-foot rainbow that went from our shed and touched the side of the house, and it was bright with all the colors. Super strong, bright, a 30-foot rainbow. I'm banging on the door to Allison. Come out, come out. She comes out with a camera.

And I said, look at this. And she starts crying. She goes, is it your dad? I said, I don't know. I think it is. She said, did you just put his birthday card in the mailbox? I said, yeah. And I turn around and here's this rainbow.

Yeah. So now, well, I did take a picture and that is in the second book, Life After This. It was just, I mean, I've never seen such a small rainbow right there, you know. Yeah. So given that two years earlier, we saw one at my dad's house, a huge double rainbow. We kind of connected that to my dad. that we see the rainbow now and we're thinking, but I have one right there.

That was just crazy. So I can't explain that. Actually, I'm sorry, I walked underneath the rainbow and I looked at it from both sides because I thought it was. That's amazing. Yeah, it was just weird. It's fascinating. And I think it speaks volumes to coping with grief and understanding,

or at least attempting to understand. Like, how beautiful is it? that losing someone we love so much gives us such a new appreciation for life. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we can't ignore. Obviously, we should not ignore our memories of our loved ones, right?

Good ones and bad ones. I mean, there's a bunch I could tell you about my dad, how we, like when I bought my first motorbike, my dad was furious. You know, he was not happy. You're going to kill yourself. It's reckless and all this. And he spoiled the day.

I was excited. I just bought this brand new motorbike and my dad was spoiling it. But there's many, many more, of course, where my dad accepted the motorbike in the end. But many more moments. My dad showed so much love towards me and I wouldn't change one second. But we can't ignore this. I believe it's my opinion again. We can't ignore the signs.

Yes, we have those memories. of our loved ones now they've left us but should you see these signs whether it's a white feather a hummingbird whatever those signs are a butterfly these surreal moments that shock you and you think what is this like it's it's got to be i honestly believe it's got to be a sign for my loved one and that is just such a special moment You know, moments like that, you just will never forget. And like you say, Alison has them too for her father. It's, I can't explain it.

It's got to be a loved ones. And I've told Allison and said, hey, if I go before you, I'm going to send you signs. You can be sure I will, you know? It's like she gets in the car, she's driving to work and she'll call me up. She's crying. Oh my gosh, are you okay? And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I put the radio on and my dad's favorite song came on. as soon as I turned it on, it started playing. What are the chances, you know? So it's just little moments like that. But it's, you've got to be open-minded. Yeah. And you can't force it. I mean, in the second book, you know,

when I talk about communicating with your loved ones, you can't send an email or a text message and expect to get a response, right? It's not going to happen that way. Right. And I can't sit here and say, hey, dad, send me a message. And boom, you receive a message.

It just, I wish it happened like that. But it doesn't, for whatever the reason is, it just doesn't. And you'll, you'll, if you're open-minded and it'll just happen. And you'll be like, wow. You know? Yeah, it's, it's awesome to think. And it's very rewarding to comprehend this idea that just because someone has left, doesn't mean you can't make new memories with them, whether it's the rainbow or it's this moment

of insight in a time of peril or a time of stress when everything's down and then all of a sudden you get this sign or a remembrance of a loved one that they're holding you. You know, they've never left. And it's, it's, I guess maybe this, the word faith seems to best describe it in so many ways. And maybe that's why faith has done so much to help us with grief. It's just this idea that the people you love will never leave you, even when they do leave you. And what does that say for you as a parent?

Like that kind of gives you some hope to be with your child or your great grandchildren for some level. You know, on a similar way, like I have a really, I've never met my great grandfather. And I was kind of estranged from my grandparents for quite some time. And all of a sudden one day when my, my grandfather had passed away. My dad said, hey, George, I know you love reading and I know you love, you know, learning.

Your great, your grandfather has passed away. And your great grandfather has this old bookcase with all his books in there. And I kind of thought you would want them. And I was like, yeah, of course I do. You know, and all of a sudden, like, I got this bookcase and had all his whole library in there from, you know, 150 years ago. And I'm like, look at this. You know, and it was just like I got to spend time. with a man I've never known.

And even to this day, like, I'm still going through and looking through books. And I'm finding notes that he wrote in these books to himself that, like, I'm like, this is a note to me, you know? And it's just like, so sometimes I can sit down and be with someone who was a part of me or is the reason I am today, even though I didn't know him. You know, and all those things are there for people if they're willing to be open-minded. Like life is such an amazing thing that we are only now beginning to scratch the surface of. And if you're willing to be honest with yourself, if you're willing to be open-minded,

and if you're willing to do the work, and more than that, if you're willing to sit down with this thing called grief, what you can learn is immeasurable. Life is so beautiful. And I'm so thankful that you got out these books and your message is getting out there. What is this news? So can you tell us a little bit about this new book that you got going on? What's the premise of this going to be? Well, this one's actually for children.

Oh, beautiful. Yeah, it's really surprising because so many people have mentioned it to me saying, oh, you should do one for children. I was like, again, I'm new to writing books. But I was like, really? And they're like, oh, yeah, because there's so many children out there who lose parents and grandparents and they deal with grief and they might need some help, right?

And I was like, wow, I never really thought about that. And again, as a child, I lost my grandparents. I actually had a brother that I lost when I was three and a half years old. So I'm super young, right? But I still remember that day. My brother died when he was three months old from acute bronchitis. But that day he passed, I can remember the ambulance turning up.

I remember the paramedics coming into the house. I remember my mom screaming so much anger and just distraught, of course. as the paramedics walk out the house with my three-month-old brother, and I still have those images. But today, I would not have thought about writing a book for children who go through grief like that. But yeah, so that's, it's a picture book. I'm actually working with an illustrator. Alison said, why don't you draw?

I've written the book already, so I have the book done. But I haven't got the pictures to go with the book yet. And Allison said, why don't you do it? I can't draw. I can doodle. She said, you can, you can, you can do it. And I was like, no, no, no. So I'm actually working with an illustrator who's going to do the pictures for me.

And that should be out. I'm hoping in about six or eight weeks, probably about two months, yeah, something like that. But I'm excited. There's a great theme to it. I don't want to give it away right now. Yeah, yeah. And but it's a little based on faith and on a spiritual side. But I don't, again, so when I write these books, I don't sit here thinking, okay, I want to write a book.

What can they do? What can they do? It just comes to me, you know? And this one came out of nowhere. And I was like, it looks at Alison. I was like, I've got an idea. And she's like, ooh, you know, write it down before you forget. because she loves talking to me about my ideas and I did and then it's just grown and like you

say I've finished the script of the book and now I just need to get the illustration done and it should be out in about two months and so I'm excited about that to see how that one is received by the people out there and because so far I've had a great feedback on these books on Amazon I mean I think it's like 4.7 stars for each of them and they've all been number one bestsellers on Amazon only for the day. It's funny, if you write a book and put it on Amazon, you probably know this, right? Sales go up and down so much that one day it's a bestseller

and the next day it's not. And it is what it is, right? That's just sales, I guess. But yeah, this has been a total thrill for me. But going back to your point, George, it just reminded me that, you know, about faith and believe. And me and Allison couldn't have a more different upbringing, in the sense of our faith because, you know, I was brought up, I was an altar boy,

went to a Catholic school, the school I went to, my teachers were priests, and then at the age of 16, I went to seminary school, didn't work out, it wasn't going to be a priest. But all of that religion in me and throughout my youth, I guess, it's still with me now, but I guess as I've grown older, I want to, I just, I'm just hungry for that. that proof, I want the evidence as well. I know my faith tells me you shouldn't need the proof, but a part of me does, you know, but Allison's gone the other way. Yeah, she went to church sometimes as she was younger, but now that she's met me,

she's suddenly the scientist in her has taken her backstage, and now she's more of a believer, like, yeah, she sees science from my dad. She believes there is life after this, you know, that this isn't the end when you die. So it's funny how the two of us have complimented each other, like here knowledge for wanting facts and data and science, has come on to me more. And my faith and belief and just that in knowing itself that there is life after this is going on to Allison. So it's like I say, we have some fascinating conversations where we bounce things off each other. And yeah, it's really cool. But I don't know if faith would help you believe.

in signs or that there is life after this more so than not. I mean, it's, I don't know, it's tough to explain and tough, like for Allison, like I say, she believes now and she never did before. She's never even thought about it. She said, you know what, Rich, I never thought about dying before. And, you know, now she does and now she believes. So, I don't know. I don't know.

I guess whether faith is something that makes it easier for you to cope with grief, took up with loss as opposed to somebody who doesn't have faith. I don't know. I don't think it does. I think it can be a bit of both. You know, like I say, it's individual. Speaking to so many people on Facebook and Instagram who have no religion in the life and yet they believe

because it's hard to let go. Imagine saying my dad died and he's gone. There's nothing. I can't live with that. that that's that's tough right you know to think that yeah they don't exist anymore i'll never see them again when i die i'm gone too i can't it makes me sad it seems like intellectually lazy on some level like you don't want to think about it and it's if you think about it on the grand scale it's the way people deal with grief the same way like like the same way a child who is abused

takes that memory and locks it away and never thinks about it again, even though unconsciously they act out on it, so too to someone who says that there's nothing afterlife. That's just a real easy way to not have to deal with grief. It's a real easy way albeit probably the most destructive

way to deal with loss. And when people say things like that, it's usually a sign that they've been really, really hurt in their life. It's over. It's done. That's something a parent says to a child who's been abused. We're done talking about it. We're locking it over there. No one ever brings it up again. It's hard. It's, it's destructive. And people, I know,

because I've, I've, I've been down that road and I, I know what it's like to act out unconsciously on people. I know what that's like and you have to understand why you're doing. Why am I acting this way? Well, I'm acting this way. Well, I'm acting this way because of these things. I'm acting this way because I've never dealt with this grief that, that has been trying to manifest itself and deal with. I'm curious. How has, how has, how has, the relationship from seeing your father pass away, change your relationship with your daughter? Yeah, because unfortunately, Jessica, her passport didn't,

well, it had expired, so she couldn't fly over to the UK anyway, to England for the funeral. And she was extremely upset by that because she was very close to my dad, her grandfather. But she's actually got, she went ahead and got a tattoo. For my great. Nice. She got,

because my dad, uh, wrote to Jessica many times. So what Jessica did, my daughter, she got his signature, tattooed on her arm, which I think is really sweet.

Um, but she was, she was devastated. But for our relationship, um, we've always been close. Me and Jessica, you know,

being a single parent, we did everything together. Um, and I think she's, she kind of keeps a lot of, a lot of emotions inside, George, she's not, she's, she doesn't like to cry, right? She keeps it in. And when she does open up, she just opens up, right?

She'll, she'll sob and sob. And when we've talked about my dad or her granddad, she gets very tearful and she just misses him so much. And I think she fears for me. Of course. I mean, she sends me text messages all the time. How are you? You know, she sends me these little heart emojis and stuff.

and I think she's scared. And she's told me, she said, you better not die, dad, because I can't live without you. And I've told her, of course she can. You know, but yeah, you've got to keep going. But I think she's scared of losing me

because we've been through so much together. And again, I think that's what loss in a family can do. It can bring you closer together. And sometimes you talk about emotions that you've never talked about before. And it's, it's a very, like, even me and my sister, you know, over the year, we love each other so much. But brothers and sisters, right? You always need to go on at each other.

Typical brothers and sisters, right? We disagree. But this is so brought us closer together, you know. I really felt bad because I couldn't get over there during the pandemic. And my sister was there every day. So I felt guilty in the sense that I couldn't help. And Gillian had to do everything. from my mum and dad.

You know, she did so much for them. I could never thank her enough for what she did and what she went through. So, yeah, it certainly brings, brought our family, as far as it might sound, closer together, because we were so close anyway. And going back to your earlier point, George, it reminded me, you know, talking to some people

about grief and losing a loved one, how they shut it out. Some people have said, oh, I've emptied the house. Like I've got rid of their clothes. sold the car, whatever cleaned out. Well, with my mom, it's the opposite. And when I talk to my mom, she says it's so hard because they've been in that house 50 years, my mom and dad.

So all the memories are there. You know, my dad fixed the chimney or my dad fixed the shed or my dad fixed this or that. And he put the tiles in the kitchen and the floor. And they're still there. You know, my dad did all the odd jobs. But when I go to visit, my dad's coat is still in the cloak room. His shoes are still there.

there. And when I stay there, you know, I sleep in my old bedroom. When I go into the bathroom and have a shave, I open the cabinet and there's my dad's razor with a shaving brush and a shaving cream. It's all still there as if he'd just gone to the store. And if my dad walked in right now, everything is right there the way he left it, you know? And I like that. I like, I love the fact my mum has left it just the way my dad left it. She doesn't want to. to take it away or clear it out, you know? Yeah. It's got to be therapeutic for my mom.

And my mom's told me she talks to my dad openly in the house as if he's there. And I'm glad she does that. I think that's important. I wonder, you know what? Like a, have you, have you gone there? Does your daughter know that your mom has all the shoes there, the stuff there, the, the cabinets open? And does your daughter understand the same way your mom feels, the way that you understand your mom feels?

Yeah, I don't think I've shared that with Jessica. I don't think I've told her that. I'll have to next time I go over, I'm supposed to go over in March, actually, to see my mom and my sister and the family. So I do need to tell Jessica and remind her. I might have done George, to be honest. I'll have to mention it to her again.

And, you know, when I'm over there, of course, I take videos and pictures and stuff. So I'll show them to Jessica. But yeah. It would be an interesting book to write with your daughter about how you feel and she feels. And it seems like you have a suite of books now. And like what better gift to give your daughter than that of becoming an author and co-writing a book with her dad that she could have forever? Like that could be the voice.

Yeah. You know, you spoke earlier about having recordings. But what about having an actual book with your father? I mean, you're an author. And she's probably pretty talented as well. Well, you know, it's funny. it was about a year ago and I'm not sure if I still have it up here but you know when you were to Barnes & Noble at any bookstore do you have those journals what are they called again

where they have a question on every page and yeah and it's one from a father to a daughter like what was my favorite color or what was my first bicycle or something you know things like this yeah what was my first fear at school so I've started to go through this book and gosh it must be like 400 pages. But I'm filling it out. And I thought, that's a great gift. And as you've just said, even writing a book about maybe my life to give to my daughter and to share everything that I've been through and maybe even some input from Jessica

into the book. But it's like I wish I had something like that from my dad. Because I know, you know, when I did the eulogy for the funeral, I did some research, of course, on my dad. I found out things I didn't know. about my dad. I didn't know that when my dad was in high school, he was in the school choir for four years. I'd never heard my dad sing a song in his life unless he was drunk. I never heard him sing, but he was in the school choir. So it's things like that that I didn't know that I love, but I wish I knew more. You know, I'm sure there was so much more my dad could

have told me that I don't know and maybe over time I'll figure it out. My dad was into the family tree. He'd gone back probably about 200 years in the family tree. When we read the will the day after the funeral, my dad actually left the family tree to me and it was kind of bizarre, George. You know, me and Allison were there for the funeral. We get to Manchester airport in England to fly back to North Carolina and I'm literally carrying in this big satchel, the family tree. And it was just such a surreal thing to think my dad's family history is in this bag with me. And I have it here. And I do need to go through it. My dad was a stickler for detail. So he had birth certificates, death certificates, photographs

of houses where everybody lived. It was so much detail. He had medals from, you know, my grandfather, my great-grandfather who fought in the wars, the second and first world war. He had copies of the medals they had. He did so much research. So again, I'll learn a lot of the family from going through all of those details. There's just so much. But it'll be fascinating. But yeah, you're right.

Any listeners, I mean, yeah, just do what you can. And it's not like looking at the dark side of like thinking, oh, you know, one day I'm going to die. And da-da-da. No, don't think of it that way. Just think it as a gift. Right. It's going to be a blessing to the people that you leave behind, whether it's your son, your daughter, whoever, but you leave them a book, a journal with all those questions answered. I think that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. So I got some people that were in the chat that maybe we could address. Would that be okay? Maybe I can sure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. This this one is from a beautiful young woman, a friend of mine, like a sister to me, an amazing woman. She recently lost her father. And she recently lost her father. She says, I can't wait to sit down with some tea and listen deeply to this. Thinking heavily today of my own father, my own dad, who is always the first to call me on my birthday.

Like what if you could reach into your books and pull out something for Stacey? Like what, for someone who has recently lost their father who had done so much for him that they looked up to? Like what? Do you have any words of wisdom that you could give to her? Yeah. Yeah, I'm so sorry for you lost. Stacey and losing any member of the family is difficult, right? I would say maybe do something that you used to do with your dad, you know,

something that you did together. I know for the last 20-some years, obviously I've lived in America, so it was difficult for me. But I know that when I visited my dad, one thing we like to do, I don't drink much and neither does my dad. but we would pour a whiskey, you know? And that was such a special, special thing. So for you, Stacey, if you did something with your dad,

maybe you went fishing together, or maybe you used to walk together in a particular park, or there was a park bench somewhere that used to sit on together. Maybe there's a TV show that your dad loved to watch. Maybe you could watch an episode or your dad's favorite movie, you know? I would certainly I mean I do things like that now there's a English comedian

he's passed away now his name is Dave Allen so he has the same last name as we do and I remember as a child my dad used to watch this comedian all the time but as a child I didn't understand the jokes you know they were over my head but now I watch those episodes on YouTube

and it's bittersweet right it's like it makes me sad but it makes me happy because I know those episodes my dad watched he watched every one of them so I would do that Stacy I would do something that you used to do with your dad and you'll feel that closeness I'm sure you will yeah that's beautiful thank you Stacy we love you thank you here's an interesting one from Ben at the no absolute podcast he says what if it's not an afterlife but simply life the vast interconnection of all things resonating, echoing, and reflecting, all creating the next moment.

Yes. Wow. What a thought, right? Yeah. It's kind of like a little bit. Maybe what we were talking about before, like, when you pass over, you're just complete with the universe. You have so many emotions that you can't, as human beings, we can't possibly explain

with our English language. Yeah. You know, the feeling that we have is just beyond the expression. and you're absolutely right. I mean, I like the thought that it is this vast interconnectedness, right? It's just suddenly, whoa. So if you think about it, as a human being,

we're kind of put in this cocoom. We do have a lot of emotions and feelings and joy that we can endure in this life, but at the same time, we're kind of restricted. And it's only when we die that we're actually set free. Maybe. Beautiful. Yeah.

Right? You know? Yeah. So again, going back to what I said earlier when I talked to Alison about dying, you know, it sounds weird in saying, I'm excited to die. You know, that sounds a strange thing to say, right? But if you put it in context, I'm excited because I'll see my dad. I'll see my dog.

I'll see my grandparents. But it doesn't mean I'm rushing to that day when it's God's will, you know, to say, this is your time and moment. I get that. but I'm enjoying life for sure. Yeah, that's a great point because when it's, when it said superficially, it can come off in a way of like,

this person has a death wish. They want to die. Exactly. But the truth is it's, it's inviting you to live every day to the fullest when you say something like that. Like, yeah, when that day comes,

I'll be excited for that. But right now, I'm excited for this, you know, because I know that's going to happen. You know, you're not living in fear. I have a good friend of my name Ranga, who we have a lot of talks.

And born in the Eastern tradition, and I'm from the Western tradition, he has some very interesting insights. And one of them is that he sees so many people that what they do is based on a fear of dying. And I think he's even gone as far as to say that almost everything people do, the majority of people do, is based on a fear of dying. And I, you know, I challenged him on that. And he's like, well, look at the way people act out. Look at the way people live their lives. Why don't more people fulfill their dreams? Why don't they do these things?

It's because they're afraid to die. And if you look at the people who are truly enjoying, truly living their life to the fullest, these are people who have made peace with death. And the ultimate irony is that they have come in contact with death. They've been really close to it, whether it was a child, a loved one, a father, a mother. They've been so close to death, they've been tempered by those flames. and they realize, I had better start living my life now. You know, and when death comes its way, hallelujah, I'll be reunited.

But it's so interesting to me that you have to get close to something, maybe even burned by it before you can understand and not be afraid of it. Yeah, that's right. I mean, I'm not trying to put a plug in here for Netflix, but there's another show on Netflix. That's about near death experiences and I've watched several episodes. And you're absolutely right. these people that actually die.

There's one episode where this lady was in a kayak and she goes off this little waterfall and she gets stuck in a rock underwater and she's there for like 50 minutes or something. Whoa. And she's dead. And you're the kayakers, her friends pull that out of the water. She's dead.

But they get it to the hospital and somehow she miraculously comes to life and she has no side effects. Like no brain damage, no nothing. It's just crazy. but she suddenly realizes, this is a jolt. You know, I'm so lucky. She talks about what she saw.

She felt at peace. You know, and she had this outer body experience and everything and there was nothing to be afraid of, you know, and yet she was dead for 50 minutes or something. It's crazy, but now she lives a life to the fullest because she knows and she's not afraid of death. You know, maybe me saying, I'm excited to die is the wrong way of putting it.

But you know what I mean. I do know, yes. You know. Yeah, she's not afraid. I think, you know, we're not afraid to die. And I don't think we should be. But yeah, there's a lot of people, again, it's individual, isn't it? Some people are.

Some people are not. I mean, you could say, I want to live my life to the fullest. I want to climb Mount Everest. Well, I can't climb. I don't have the finances or the resources. So I can't do that. But what I can do is go out in my backyard and have a cup of tea. And I feel at peace.

And to me, that fulfills me just relaxing like that. You know, that's me living life to the full, just being relaxed. Yeah. With a nice cup of tea. So you don't have to be extravagant with fulfilling life. You can do whatever it is to make you feel complete and happy, you know? Yeah. That's a great point.

I think it also brings to the forefront, this idea of life. were told to live. You know, like when there's so much out there, whether it's a billboard or television or keeping up what the Jones is or, you know, material things out there that from day to day, we become so anesthetized, I don't know if I'm saying there, anesthetized to life. Like we forget what's important.

And sometimes it takes something we love leaving us in order to snap us out of this idea that, hey, you don't need a new Corvette. Hey, you don't need to go climb out every. What you need to do is just be the happy with who you are. And if you need to do some things to fix that, then do that. Because the truth is, you can, we never know who we're inspiring on a day-to-day basis. Like maybe a million people watch this podcast, maybe five people watch this podcast,

but maybe one out of a million or one out of five. Yeah. They take a story with them and they keep it forever. Or maybe you're at your day and you smile at a child and you make that kid's life better in a weird sort of way. But we never know what actions of ours are going to inspire people. So if you can just take a little bit of time to make yourself happy and make the people around you better, I think you can literally change the world. And like you're writing all these books.

Like you radically transformed your life, right? And yeah. And you did it in a, you know, you could say that it's taking you 50 years to get to this point. Or you could say this happened in a month. Whatever story it is, the transformations of. life are there. And I have found that the most interesting people and the people I love talking to are people that are going out of their way to share their stories with people. I think it makes a huge difference. I'm thankful for it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely right. And I think, you know,

going back to like doing small things or big things and just even helping each other, total strangers, right? I mean, you know, whether you see somebody sitting at the sidewalk there who's, you know, needs five dollars and you throw them five. in the cup you know it makes you feel good they feel good you're helping them i mean it doesn't big or small whatever you can do yes that makes you happy you know i never forget this was years ago in liverpool i me and jessica were going to the bank and i pulled up in the car i locked the car and jessica was seven seven something like that she was in the card alone i was only in the bank two minutes i came back to the car and jessica was crying i was like what's wrong and she goes

Well, the man that's parked next to us hit our car. And I was like, and I looked at our car and there was a big scratch all the way down the side. And this old guy came out of the bank and he said, I'm so sorry. I was in a rush and I hit your car, but I'll pay for the repairs. And I said, well, that's okay. Don't worry. I said, but it's my daughter. And he looked.

And he said, oh, my God, I didn't know your daughter was in there. And he was so guilty. So we exchanged information. And a couple of days later, he came. to my house and he wrote me a check for the damages but he also had a necklace and in a box and he gave it to jessica and he said i want to give you this and jessica open the box and on the pendant it said choose the right thing and he said in life he was talking to jessica he said in life you always have to do the right thing i did something wrong i damaged your daddy's car and i'm here to fix it because that's the

right thing to do. And to this day, Jessica, like 20 years later, still wears that pendant about choosing the right thing, you know, choose the right thing, like always do the right thing in life. And it's so bizarre that that moment in time, that total stranger, yeah, left that message with us that we still carry today about trying to do the right thing in life, you know. And I think that's how we live, really, or we can live. We can do these little things. things for each other and it can have a big impact, you know. So yeah, you're right. Yeah. You don't have to buy that Corvette. You don't have to climb Mount Everest. You can just have a cup of tea in your backyard or go for a walk with your dog or do something in memory of

your father, you know, whatever it might be, you know, it's all good. I don't think there's anything that could top that as an ending. Do the right thing. That's so beautiful. Like such a Beautiful story. As we're landing the plane here, Richard, where can people find you? What do you have coming up and what are you excited about? So I'm on Amazon right now. So if you go to Amazon.com, you'll find all three books that I have out there. So there's keep calm and cope with grief. There's life after this and nature's reach. And don't forget, my name, my author name is my dad's name, John Allen. But if you go, to the Amazon page and find one of my books. If you click on John Allen, the author name, it takes you to the author's page and it has a little bio about me and also my email address,

so you can always contact me by email. You can find me on Facebook. I'm on Facebook as well, and the information is there on Amazon, and I'm on Instagram as well. This social media thing, it's all new to me, so I'm still trying to work it out. I only opened up the Instagram a couple of weeks ago, so I'm still trying to figure that out. As for what's coming up, it's really the fourth book, which is for children. But quite honestly, it's for adults too. It's a short book. I think there's only 600 words.

But the message in it is something that you or I or anybody can do every day to think about our loved ones. I really love the message that's in it. It's such a simple thing. I can't wait for it to come out. I really can't. So I'm excited about that. And as far as book five, I've got no idea. dear. It just comes to me. I just let it happen. I don't push it, force it. It just happens. And

you know, and then I'll be writing again on book number five, I guess. It's beautiful. I can't wait to continue the timeline. And I'm hopeful that when, when that one comes out, you'll, you'll think of me to come here and talk more about that last year. Sure, definitely. I'd love to do this again with you, George, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. If it's possible, then, if we're about to close, can I close on a prayer? If I can say a quick prayer? Yeah, please. Okay. All right. Heavenly Father, we want to thank you for our countless blessings.

We thank you not only for the food that we have to eat or the comfortable place that we have to live, but for the beauty that surrounds us. We acknowledge you for your countless blessings that you have provided and continue to provide. We thank you for giving us clear direction through your Holy Word. Through the good times and the bad times, we thank you for this life. Amen. That's beautiful. Thank you. Fantastic. Anything else you want to do? Is that anything else you want to get out?

I don't know how to get better than that. I've enjoyed it, George. It's been great. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great. Thank you. The pleasure's all mine. And thank you for the books. And thank you for being a beautiful person and sharing some stories that are very personal to you. And I think resonate with all of us. I think it's a beautiful thing. And I love the idea of doing the right thing. So thank you for that. Yeah. Thank you. Okay, ladies and gentlemen,

thank you so much for your time. The links for Rich. His book will be in the show notes. Go there, go to his email, check him out, read the books. It will make you laugh. It'll make you cry. And if you're like me, it'll make you a better person. So thank you so much.

That's all we got for today. Hang on one second. I'm going to close this out, Rich. But I'll talk to you for one more second. Aloha, everybody.