TrueLife - Kendall Wallace - Silicon Valley, Radical Transformation, & Metamorphosis

Episode Date: August 2, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Aloha! I’m excited to introduce our distinguished guest, Kendall Wallace. Kendall is an expert at transforming teams from a collection of individuals into cohesive, high-performing units. With a unique blend of adventure and strategic facilitation, Kendall creates immersive offsite experiences that significantly enhance communication, trust, and collaboration among team members.If you’ve faced challenges like remote teams feeling disconnected, low employee engagement, or struggling to bring a sense of unity to your team, Kendall’s expertise is precisely what you need. Through carefully crafted retreats—whether virtual or in-person—Kendall ensures your team not only strategizes and plans effectively but also builds meaningful connections and resolves conflicts constructively.Having led impactful workshops and offsites at major tech companies like Meta, Kendall has consistently delivered impressive results: improved communication, heightened trust, goal alignment, and increased employee satisfaction and performance. By fostering stronger bonds outside the usual work context, Kendall’s approach leads to teams that are aligned, motivated, and capable of achieving higher performance metrics.Join us as we delve into Kendall’s innovative methods for creating the ultimate team offsite experience and learn how you can transform your team’s dynamics to drive success. Welcome, Kendall Wallace!https://www.instagram.com/kendallwallace123/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kendall-wallace One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scar's my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry Born from the blaze The poem is Angels with Rifles The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen,

Welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I hope that the sun is shining and the birds are singing and the wind is at your back. I got an incredible guest for you today, and we're going to get into some amazing topics. Let's see the one and only Kendall Wallace. She is a distinguished guest here at the True Life podcast.

She's an expert at transforming teams from a collection of individuals into cohesive, high-performing units. With a unique blend of adventure and strategic facilitation, Kindle creates immersive off-side experiences that significantly enhanced communication, trust, and collaboration among team members. If you face challenges like remote teams feeling disconnected, low employee engagement, or struggling to bring a sense of unity to your team, Kindle's expertise is precisely what you need.

Through careful, crafted retreats, whether virtual or in person, Kindle ensures your team not only strategizes and plans effectively, but also builds meaningful connections and resolves conflicts constructively, Having led impactful workshops and off-sites at major tech companies like Meta, Kendall has consistently delivered impressive results, improved communication, heightened trust, goal alignment, and increased employee satisfaction. I think Monty will be right back. I'm here.

Hi, everyone. This will be cut from this segment, but it's okay. Anyway, excited to talk with you all. I think we're waiting for Monty to. get back. I'm back. There he is. Nice. Thank you very much for everybody watching. I was in the midst of making some big moves from upstairs to downstairs. And so Kendall, I apologize for the quick interruption right there, but I am really excited on what you're doing and your understanding of building teams and trust and what you have going on as far as building community. And I was

hopeful that maybe you could give us a little bit more of a background on how that came to and why you're doing what you're doing. Yeah, sure thing. Glad you're back, by the way. So how I came to, I guess, work in the field I do now really started from working in big corporate company, worked at meta, in big tech, kind of having the dream experience of working for one of those big companies,

right? However, and it has blessings. You know, it had so many different blessings. But one of the things it also had was whenever we had team challenges, you know, people would switch teams or they would kind of the tension would never get fully resolved. And also our off-sites, our team get-togethers and stuff was always just kind of centered around dinners and drinks, which is better than nothing, don't get me wrong. But it kind of left more to be desired.

And we'd do these things that seem to just check a box. Like we'd have a carnival, and the company would spend a lot of money to try and do that and have us have fun. or these escape rooms. And it's like, at the end of the day, though, we still fundamentally, you bring a cross-functional composite, different walks of life together that need to align.

And at the end of the day, none of that shifted how, you know, me and other counterparts worked together two weeks down the road. We still have the same challenges. And then we do things like, communication workshops and that type of thing. However, we'd never do them with our teammates. So really kind of seeing the flaws in the system as well as, you know, really coming out of

that creating, that's when I moved to Hawaii and started to create experiences to bring people together to have this mind, body, soul, rejuvenation fresh out of. of kind of the pandemic days. And so the level of bonding that took place in these retreats I created, coupled with seeing this need, really sent me down this path to create experiences specifically designed for teams to really generate bonding and really generate each other to a new level of teammateship and trust with one another while also creating a connected experience that now we have the privilege of creating here in Hawaii where we can take I've taken team surfing and there's something

that hits different when you have this you know the sun is setting the water's beautiful and at sea turtle pops up next to you and you know it's just a level of kind of oh wow this is a magical moment And by the way, I'm with my teammates. And so I just, I profoundly, I guess just to sum up is that, you know, having had experiences myself where the emotional toll that it can take on one's energy when there is unresolved tension in a team, it made me realize, like, I don't want that. I don't want that for other people. I want to be able to create the best, you know, set up, the best tee up for teams to really rally for each other, you know, and not be these interchangeable mercenaries.

It's true. It's true. Yeah. You know, I like hate that. And the funny thing is, is companies hate it, too. They complain, oh, wow, how do we resolve, like, how do we hold on to our people? well news flash and this is my theory on it you treat them like humans like you humanize the experience as much as possible that's how you create people to not be mercenaries yeah it's interesting to me

to think about that relate like the work life relationship you know and i'm curious to get your opinion, do you think that nothing can really be changed unless companies become beholden to their employees versus their shareholders? Like, that seems to be the one thing that's causing this disconnect is that at the end of the day, hey, we want you guys to be a team. We want you to work together, but bottom line, money is all that matters. Like you can't, those two things can't coexist. You can't treat people like humans and numbers at the same time. Like, you have to choose. If you're going to treat people like numbers, then you're going to get mercenaries. If you're going to you people like numbers, you're going to take the vulnerability and the meaning making out of the

machine. Is that too far of a bridge? You bring up something very interesting because like Google just cut a bunch of jobs, right? And their share price went up. And then I'm hearing from some others that it's like, oh, morale's low. Well, no, no kidding. No kidding. When you instill like survival instincts every man for themselves and then you wonder why morale is low. I do believe, I don't believe it has to be one of the other. I, and maybe this is just my hopefulness, but I also have seen teams that are high performing that do have a sense of trust and connection. So I think it's possible in those bigger companies, it is more challenging.

challenging. Yeah. But there is, you know, and even in small companies, it's like at the end of the day, we got to realize we, none of us, none of us are going to have jobs unless we actually are having an output here. So like as much as I, you know, you care about others and you and you want to work as a team, like at the end of the day, everybody, we do have to, you know, be creating an output. that generates a profit. Otherwise, it just doesn't work. You know? So I think, and there's levels,

there's ways in which should do that, you know, in the stuff I lead, that really has people come together and create alignment so that you don't have, in a group of 10, you don't have three people that are checked out and detached because their opinion was not played a part in the group of,

of the seven out of the 10 just went ahead and made the decision. I think there's ways to bring people together. That's what I like to do in my offsite. Yeah, like it seems in the startup community or in a lot of private industries, like you still have this camaraderie or you have this, maybe it's the vision of the founder that's contagious, you know, but it seems to change on some level. Maybe you can speak to the idea of how do you build meaningful relationships at work?

Are there some secrets that you've uncovered when you get people in different states of awareness? Or what are some of the techniques and maybe challenges that you find trying to create meaningful relationships in the workplace? Yeah. Thanks for asking. Well, first of all, it's a journey. It's like structuring an employee journey, right? So there's places I can take a team on the third offsite that we can't get to on the first. We just can't. There's not enough rapport built.

the foundations of trust aren't there. So building meaningful relationships at work, you know, really centers around what inspires people to do what they do. And what do they view as their strengths and their contributions to the team? And do the other team members understand that? You know, I think it's so often, like, Like when we just leave it to dinner and drinks, like I find out that like, okay, cool, your son plays tea ball.

Awesome. Cool. Like we, we got a, but that's still surface. Like, that doesn't tell me anything about why you show up to work. You know, okay, maybe we can, we can read between the lines and see that your kids are important to you. You want to provide like that type of thing. But really having a deeper conversation around, you know, why are you on this team?

And maybe it, actually, I've facilitated like values exercises where it's okay that some people who are just after the money. It's okay. Like that's, that's okay. You know, and others want to like, you know, grow and got to get promoted. And that's okay too. You know, and others are for the purpose alignment. But it's like understanding what makes people tick. Like it's a fundamental level of just empathetic understanding that helps.

create meaningful relationships. So I think that's one of the biggest things is creating connection through empathy and understanding. The second is really when there is, we are humans. And so when there is tension that comes up and guess what? It happens because we are humans. Then just if we ignore it, you know, I'm a big fan of the mattress and the pee. You know that story that the princess and the pea, right? Of course.

The story that, you know, the pee is under the mattress, and she stacks all these mattresses on top of the princess is on top of, like, 20 mattresses. And she's like, this is still uncomfortable. She could still sense the pee. And I believe that's true. I mean, a group's, a team is a group. And I'm a big fan of systems theory where, you know, like, There's only underperformers because you have overperformers.

Like you, the group interaction, you don't have to be at the center of the tension to have the center impact you or to have that tension impact you. So the more we ignore kind of elephants in the room, it just leads to detachment, which then makes people check out, which then makes people Irish goodbye and leave. And so, you know, it's, I think the way. to create meaningful work relationships is also centered around straight talk, addressing what's going on, you know, and actually we're working to resolve through it by hearing both sides and making sure

everybody is seen, heard, and valued, and, you know, the conflict is resolved. And it's like, even if the conflict isn't fully resolved, it's like, okay, agreeing to kind of just acknowledge it. Like, it is, we as a group acknowledge that it's not quite resolved and we're going to move on, right? But it's like, as opposed to this, like, yep, it's still there, like, you know, this like half-hearted, half the group acknowledging what's going on. So I think those, I mean, in my experience, you know, it's the empathy connection building. It's the resolving tension or team dynamics issues that are not serving the team. And then it's really aligning as a team so that everybody feels seen, heard, and valued. And, you know, the last component for a lot of my work is then making sure that when conflict arises, it's just, yeah, it really is people, the team has the first sense experience of really resolving that conflict moving through it and having their nerve,

nervous system actually be okay. Yeah, those are incredible points and I, they are definitely should be the foundation of building a winning team. You know, I think defining terms, especially when we're in different cultures and in the workplace and values is, is sort of a thorny spot. And the question that comes to mind, and this is a really broad question, so feel free to take it in any direction, is that sometimes you hear people say, these people, are so self-entitled and then you have other people that are like look that's self-worth I'm worth this what do you think is a relationship between someone who's entitled and someone who has self-worth like they'll seem similar in a lot of ways but they look at very different wow that's a great question

yes thank you i almost want to hear your answer first i know that's a cop-out but no not at all you've probably given it some thought i'd love to hear well i see it a lot you know here in hawaii like i come from Caucasian acres in San Diego. And when I came to Hawaii, I was thrust into this mix of all this incredible melting pot of different cultures, like Filipino and Japanese and Hawaii and all these different Asian cultures and different family structures and generational living. And what I didn't understand was going into the workplace. I worked for a Fortune 500 company at UPS and, you know, the different attitudes towards work. And I found myself on the receiving end of you are so entitled And I'm like, I'm worth it.

I believe that I work really hard and I believe that this is not only am I worth it, but everybody I work with is worth it. And I was met with this incredible resistance of you arrogant, self-entitled knucklehead. And like, I couldn't really bridge that gap because in my mind, I'm like, this is what I was taught my whole life. I was taught to fight for what you believe in. And if you work hard, you deserve to have it. And then, you know, I was able to flip sides and look at it from this other angle like, oh, you think you're better than everybody.

And I'm like, that's not what I thought. but I could see how it was received that way. And I bring it up because I don't really have a great answer for it, but I can see that divide since it happened to me. And I'm kind of searching for an answer because I don't want to be looked at as entitled. And I think a lot of people that are fighting what they believe in, they don't want to look like arrogant and entitled. They want to look like, hey, I'm working really hard.

I'm fighting for this. So I guess my answer to the relationship between entitlement and self-worth is empathy. It's like, okay, what is really going on here? These are two different words. Are we looking with two different cultures? Are we looking at a monetary issue? But maybe that could be a, you know, maybe there's a course in there.

Maybe there's a team building in there for leaders. It's like, what's this relationship like? It's not much of an answer either, but I'm curious to get yours. Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I think it's just whether entitlement or high value of word, I think is ultimately about naming something that's unnamed, just bringing.

Yeah. It's just having an empathetic conversation around, you know, bringing what's under the surface to the surface. I think so I think of two examples like, So that, you know, one is, you know, engineers in tech, right? They're so, they're paid so much, right? And when I was a member of the design team, I would always kind of just, it was kind of this, this, whenever there was any criticism around like, you know, the guys, this thing we're building,

it's not testing well with the, with the clients, with the customers. You know, these 300,000, 400,000 paid engineers would take it so personally. Right. And so the whole design team really felt like, what do you, come on, like, you're getting paid this much. Like, take a little bit of constructive feedback. Like, you know what I mean? Like, do you want to be? Like, do you want to be? coddled. No, but seriously. And I think about that as you're talking about entitlement, because it's just like, that's what it brought up for me. And but there was a missing piece that that conversation was actually me vocalizing exactly that, right? It's like, guys, like, do we want to create a great product or do you just want to get promoted? Like, let's just,

let's come to terms on where everybody really is on this team. And so, yeah, and I think what's also interesting is similarly in a lot of product teams, because that's my background, right? So a lot of product teams, like the PM is the quarterback. The PM is like the leader. Everybody kind of looks to the PM, you know, because they're direct. They're like the orchestra conductor, you know, for the team, right? Like they're, you got to follow the lead of the quarterback, right?

Right. It's not like the cornerback will hike the ball. Like, that doesn't work. So we would look to them. And then it's really funny because I recently did a study as a survey where it was kind of understanding team dynamics challenges within product teams and heard from PMs that they're like, yeah, everybody's always looking to us. like for the answer.

And it was like, well, that's because the other people think they're supposed to look to you. But then you feel that you need your team to help set the direction. You know, it was like a chicken or the egg situation. And I think that's kind of the same way with this entitlement piece is really, yeah, it's just, it's kind of having the conversations that need to be had so that you can really kind It will humanize your peers. Humanize your peers. So I think, I hope that somewhat answers your question.

It does. I, and I'm grateful for your answer because I, it seems to me that, you know, for a long time, tech has been at the forefront of change. And in doing so, so has the corporate structure been at change. And it seems like what you're doing is helping people reorganize, organize the way they relate to work. And that's kind of what seems to be happening in this world. Like there's a lot of heartache. There's a lot of job cuts that you could argue that we're borderline in a depression. But that means big changes are coming, whether there are people getting cut or people reevaluating what's important to them. Definitely people reevaluating relationships.

And do you think that maybe what we're seeing while painful is a sort of opportunity to reimagine the workplace to reevaluate it. On some of your workshops and some of these exercises that you're doing, I think are very cutting edge. And I think that that's what you're doing is you're sort of spearheading this new way to relate our relationships to work on some level. What do you think? If I'm even cracking any of that, that's, that's it. That's what I want. Yeah. You know, absolutely. So I didn't, I didn't mention this, but I'll now level a little bit more of vulnerability into the conversations. So my experience, so I'll actually walk you through.

Okay, please. So when I was working in Big Tech, I was passed up for promotion. And then, and so what happens, and this happens a lot, right? It was when someone's passed up for motion, they start to detach. And especially, then it's like, then it's like, okay, you got to, you got to like, all right, I got to strive so, so much more with my output. Then a tension was created with the quarterback of the team at the end between myself and her. And you see, my entire pathway for promotion in the future was based on the,

for that particular role. The research is based on the ability to influence the product direction. Okay? With the research that's going on. Now, this particular quarterback wanted to set the pathway for the product,

not incorporating research whatsoever. She's like, it's my way. This is the way I'm going with this. I want this product direction. So no matter what, what I did to influence her. It was just, it wasn't going to go that way because of the way she kind of had her mindset on the product direction. And here you go, it's a situation that quite frankly exasperated into me getting fired for not being a good teammate.

And I bring that up because what started as literally, you can see the crevices of like this misalignment. and this one person just trying to go for survival this other person quite frankly i didn't find out until later was also she was trying like had also had a similar experience for got passed up for promotion and was just trying to make sure her way got one and so you see how this like and of course she viewed me as like yeah i have this teammate that's not helping me like right so and listen you know as much as i guess the hard thing you know is some people are like yeah team building whatever like your experiences to help improve communication like it doesn't really matter it doesn't matter until your livelihood's taken away yeah it doesn't matter until those moments of

tension become serious miscommunications that result in serious consequences and then you've got to look in the mirror and see it. And I don't want that for teams. And I do absolutely believe there's a better way. And the better way is not missing the layup of taking a communication class, not with your teammates. You know, it's not checking a box. We did team building. Great.

Let's check that one off. We did it in a conference room without any windows. Yeah, that sucks. It's like there's actually a different way. As the consciousness of the planet is raising and I mean without getting too, truth be told, I think there's a more fun, more joyous, more soul-nourishing experience to be had with how we connect with our colleagues. And I am here to help teams create them.

Like absolutely. Why? Because I know what it's freaking like and I experience the consequences when you don't have that. And it sucks. It sucks to have such a emotional toll being weighed on you to have dinner table conversation and friends conversation about how you're in different ways you're unfulfilled in the workplace. Instead, what's possible, I believe, is to create that connection, resolve tension, and then truly actually align as a team. You can look around the table and actually look people in the eye, which these are also traits, according to Pentland, did a study on high-performing teams. They look each other in the eye.

They don't just look at the leader or the person who has the question, you know. And there's like different tools, too, different tricks. I mean, I'll just give you one now. Yeah, please. A fun one that I think is great is, you know, so often when you're aligning a group of people, everybody's like, you know, should we move forward with this? And then it's kind of like you have crickets or it's uncertain, kind of exactly how it is. So a tactic I love is, all right, on a scale of one to five, five being the highest, one being,

me, how much do you support this decision? Everybody put up your hand, just five fingers, and show me where you are. Right? And so you see visually, you look around the room and you see visually where everybody is. Now, anybody, three or less, what is it going to take to get you to a four or five? And maybe if they have a completely different direction, then it's like, you know, come back tomorrow with like what, yeah, what, with your case and then everybody else can vote again, you know? And then basically the point is, is anybody three or less,

you got to start to make concessions on what it's going to take to get you to a five and then come back. And that's called a negotiation. That's how everybody can actually leave, all 10 people can leave that room being like, wow, I feel hurt. Instead of you get this invisible one out of the nine or two out of the 10, that, you know, just are kind of like sitting there being quietly complacent. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it makes total sense. I think that that particular sort of negotiation or that particular sort of trustful communication allows for high output, high productivity and a functioning team. I think that is where, you know, the majority of companies wish they were at. And that leads to better products, at least a better service, at least to better communication. And quite often it seems that the opposite way is the sign of a dying animal. You know, when you have to force feed everybody something, it's like a machine at a hospital. Like you have to force feed them to keep them alive.

When you have to force feed people ideas, there's no energy behind it. There's no love behind it. There's no power behind it. There's just the mundane guy big in a trench. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, this is kind of out there.

Like, I deal a lot. A lot of my podcast talks a lot about PTSD, mental wellness, and just different types of mental stress that causes people to function less than who they really are. And I think that's a, that seems to be a symptom of the system we live in. And when you look at what's happening at workplace, there's a lot of well-being and there's a lot of these. programs that do check a box. Maybe it's going for drinks. Maybe it's doing jumping jacks before you start work. And maybe it's having a motivational speaker come in.

But do you think there's a place in the future for some sort of like psychedelic therapy? Like maybe, you know, I know that there's people that are working on microdosing and getting insurance companies to study microdosing on some level. But I think that that creates a sort of alternate state of awareness. Maybe it's vulnerability. Maybe it's just an altered state of awareness. And I know that's kind of a bridge way out there, but what are your thoughts on that?

I would love that. Me too. I would love that. I'll speak personally. The use of psychedelics and specifically MDMA therapy has been profoundly healing for me. Yes. And, you know, that journey, like, opens, has opened so much, has made me understand levels of little T trauma. I, you know, I, I have to admit, I kind of grew up very

privileged, and so I have a lot, I have the little T trauma, but I, you know, still, it, it, it, it had an impact. Well, I mean, I'll speak. Okay. So this is a, a fun one. So let's be candidly. This is kind of bringing, bridging both together. I mentioned that moment of me not getting along with a teammate. And it was, it was very triggering for me because I felt not, you know, not listened to. It was like it was her way or the highway. And then someone asked me, you know, after I left, they said, where else in your life did you have that experience of not feeling hurting or listened to where it was this person's way or the highway and I was like, are you kidding me? I was just playing out unheeled mom stuff in the workplace.

For God's sake. And so what's funny about that is actually since then, though, I've become a student of Bowen theory, which is all about how your upbringing. And the family in which you were raised actually influences how you operate in the workplace. And I've been a student of the Bowen Sitter for family just to better understand that so I can do some diagnostics in my off-sites. And I think, I think namely understanding specifically your upbringing, but also just earlier parts of life, how they can influence how you operate in the workplace, I think is really. really important self-awareness exercise. And I can't really force it in my off-sites, but I sure like to do some journaling exercises around it. And so we'll take some popcorn chairs for whoever's going to share. And because I think that's incredibly insightful. I mean,

I have two older brothers. So me being the littlest also is like no one, too, for me, it was incredibly important to feel heard and seen. And like, hey, listen to me, what I have to say is important. What I have to say is important. Where do you think that comes from being a little sister? So these aspects of self-awareness are incredibly impactful and they're actionable now. And, you know, psychedelics is incredibly, has been so powerful in my healing journey, and I would love to see a world where, you know, before the end of my lifetime, we could get there.

I think, you know, teams just, the executive leadership teams who are really willing to go there, potentially, we'll just either have to go to a different country or go underground for the foreseeable future. You know, I mean, that's kind of the reality a little bit that we're in. But I would love that because, you know, I think it's incredibly healing and bonding. And we also know the level of peak experiences that can happen, like a peak or sorry, how important peak experiences and shared peak experiences are for creating meaningful relationships.

another thing I think that I'm I'm beginning to incorporate that touches on some of these aspects is is ice baths in my in my off-site experiences and I think there's there's also something there to be gained when you do have a group and maybe you do have someone who is not quite loving the way they look in a bathing suit, but who has a team that comes with care and love to, like a loving presence, to really rally around this person, as long as they're not in the trauma response, you know, as long as they're willing to go there and really, like, you know, kind of overcome that fear of being seen in a swimsuit, you know, and do a nice bath. Like, there's something there too of that that just it's that caring presence of like you're going to overcome a challenge for yourself or even where we live you know jumping off a cliff i've taken teams too yeah it's this this loving presence you know that it's like we're going to help you overcome something that you're

challenged by and it's it's like you're actually going to do the work yourself but we're going to cheer you on You know, that's like the level of care that creates trust. That's the level of care that's humanizing. That's the stuff that is magic. You do that and don't tell me a month from now, when we're working on a project and you need something, I will not rally behind you. No chance that like those high-level experiences,

100% create that level of connection that you want. So I think we can start to do it now with many experiences of creating that same loving presence. This is what I mean by, I think what you're doing is on the cutting edge. You know, in a lot of ways what you're describing are rituals and rights of passage. And when you take leaders and you go through rituals and rights of passage that distinguish them as leaders and you give them experiences of how to overcome, then they're able to translate. that experience and help the other people overcome. You know, and it's the difference between a leader and a manager, right?

A leader is someone who does the right thing, and a manager is someone who does things right. And we have been in, there's nothing wrong with being in a management position. I think it's great, but I think managers are leaders. And I think that they should be given the freedom to act as leaders, because that's when we start bringing everybody up. And I feel these things that you're describing are, in fact, a throwback. to, you know, ritual. Like, this is, we're going to have this group ritual together.

I am going to show you an altered state of awareness that you can have forever. Like, that's beautiful, Kendall. I love it. You're right. Oh, I love that you get it. Like, thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Well, thanks for doing it. And for rallying it all, yeah. And I think that's, that's the thing is, you know, I mentioned earlier about these. you know, these engineers staff that you remember that when I was on that team, that level of like, you're getting paid all this money like you can deal

with a little criticism. But there's something there's something there's something there's struggling with whether it's actually understanding the criticism or whether it's something a little bit more. But like there's a level of

elevation that can take place when we have a setting or a space to really figure out what that is. And then as a team, help that person with that. And I'm not saying we need to do group therapy for all our business meetings. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is just give a little bit of space to understanding what makes people take, what like, you know, if someone's very resistant to criticism, like helping understand a little bit more around that so that we can, as a team, can actually operate more effectively

because them understanding how to take in that feedback is actually going to help the whole product. It's going to help the whole thing. But you can't move forward when one person's kind of like, no, I can't do that. You know, it just like that level of energy. Armor. We are not doing this.

It's just like, you're killing me, Smalls, you're killing me. You know? Yeah, I love that movie, Sandbox. It speaks to the idea of Generation X, I think, on so many levels. Yeah, I think there's something to be said about shared sacrifice and shared goals. And sometimes people in really high-performing situations or people that are a really high-performing performers, you know, maybe people don't understand the sacrifice they got to get there. And I think that that can bother people at a certain level as like, do you realize how much

school I went through to get here? How dare you question me? Like, and I get it. Like, if someone has sacrificed so much when you question them, you're calling their sacrifice, you're calling their God into question in a way. You know what I mean? Like, I've sacrificed everything for this. How dare you? It's, it's a mesmerizing to me. And I think that we, are on the cusp of changing things. I'm so thankful for. Me too. It's almost like a resurgence, though, of the type of team building from the 80s. Ah, okay. I think in a lot of ways, the 80s and 90s, which was actually like going outside. Yeah, like we're going to go outside and actually, you know, there's my mentor actually did. We took senators and executives outside.

and had them own each sleep in their own tents overnight they would come back together and talk about it i mean it's like this it's these these experiences that allow people to grow as people yeah and then and then oh by the way this is sponsored by your company cool like that's that because your company cares about you growing as a person um and yeah so i i i just love what you've said too about ritual. I think that's so, thank you for pointing that out. I didn't, you know, it's a term that I've used sometimes, but I just, I love how you, you've truly labeled it. Like, yeah, what you're doing is creating ritual. And ritual is so important. So important. Like, think of the Elusinian mysteries. You know, you used to have emperors and slaves alike. It's their

birthright to go and they sit together and they watch the death of Persephone and there's no talking really, but you and I together as a team, we get to be part of this ritualistic ceremony. And in doing so, we have a shared experience that rises above language. That is what builds team. It's ineffable, but you and I can feel it between us. Yes, we did this together. We could probably do other things together. We have this trust. We have this relationship. And now we can go back and bring the water back to the team. Like we went to the well. We got it. Here it is. Drink out, drink it up, everybody. Right? Yeah, totally. It's funny. There's something I really am looking for the right team to do it with. And what I really want to do is I want to do a version of hot ones with a

like CEO. Do you know hot ones? Are you familiar with it? No. What was that? Okay. So it's where he eats buffalo wings

or vegetarian cauliflower wings, but with hot sauce on it. And they ask him very well-researched questions. And I think there's a level, too, of like this shared sacrifice. Imagine a whole team watching their leader literally suffer.

and be vulnerable. Because you're creating the experience of this high stress. Like the people, it's really fun to watch. He interviews celebrities, but I think it'd be really cool for, to do with the team. And basically,

because the person's under such high stress of like the hotlings that they, it affects a part of their brain where they're like the filters gone. And so they answer really honestly. And I just think like how powerful to, have a experience like that where you're seeing your leader be vulnerable in that way and you're seeing them put their guard down and you're seeing them you know sacrifice to to humanize themselves

in a way i think it's just a fun way of kind of creating that that i'm looking to uh to to create protein yeah you know what like i love that idea what about adding in like like like some sort of language to like, okay, you are the leader. You, everybody can eat two super hot firewings or you can eat all of them as a leader. What are you willing to do? You know what I mean? Like, you're the leader. Are you the leader? Okay, what are you willing to sacrifice for your team? And it could be done in ways where it's anonymous. You know, you could put stuff out there, but everybody could see. And on some level, like you could really see who's vulnerable and where they need work. And maybe this person shouldn't be the leader. You know what I mean? But,

It could be destructive as well as cohesive, but I think breaking down boundaries is a part of team leadership. Like this is where this person is weak. Like, if you are the leader, what's the right thing to do? And it could even be like theoretical. As a leader, are you willing to take that for your team or not? You know, like, I don't know the right answer, but like maybe everybody can talk about it. Right. And also, it's interesting to see how teams would react for their leader, you know, like, be like, you better.

You better not make me do this. Like, you already think so much, you know. Or like, yeah. Well, the other thing I'll mention, too, is it's always, in all the team building books, like, there's one exercise that is always, like, people just put as the best for building team trust. And it's actually an exercise from the Navy SEALs where they, have to pick up and move a log and they have to do it all together because it's so heavy and i mean i

really wish we could do that in corporate america too i think you know like having an experience like it's i have to figure out a i mean that's that's my task is to figure out like these these rituals and experiences that maybe maybe without it's like a metaphorical log you know how can we yeah we do that because I'm I think there'd be too many like my knee hurts and stuff like that um you know that yeah that we didn't actually do it physically but that's beautiful like I and that's just an excuse right like oh my knee hurts or I can't do it right now like what about something emotionally heavy that everybody had to carry at the same time there might be something there that like that's exactly right yeah yeah man I think that that tends to happen you know really when

you kind of have two sides that need to read that are kind of at an impasse that need to reach reach resolution and have all other team members be part of the process yeah like I said earlier you know tension between two team members you might just say it's those two but it impacts everybody in the team it's kind of like uh you know mom and dad are fighting saying that oh it's just between the two of them it doesn't impact the children really because last I checked, that would definitely impact the children. Yeah. You know, it's just you're kidding yourself if conflict between two people doesn't impact

everybody else who's just a part of the system. Agreed. Yeah, power dynamics, hierarchy. And I'm looking forward to learning more about the Bowens. And I never thought about it. But, you know, the workplace is sort of an extension of family. And if you were taught a certain way to relate in your family, of course you're going to bring that into the workplace. How can you not?

Specifically conflict, actually. So specifically how you were taught to deal with conflict, whether you were taught to avoid it or to engage. That patterning really plays or sticks with individuals. And that's why part of what's really important too is at an offsite at some stage, you know, typically like the second off site once you build report, it's really figuring out the conflict patterning that people have and then how we want to deal with conflict as a team when it does come up. So you can make, understand where individuals come from

and then also have a team kind of policy, almost like an SOP. You know, this is how we're going to deal with it when it comes through. Because it's true. It comes through all the time. So, like, for example, with my reports and my company, I have a monthly check-in just, just regularly to, we talk about our working relationship and how am I showing up for you? How can I show up better? And this is where I shut up and receive as the manager, the feedback. But then we also just talk about, you know, what's working in the business relationship, what's not. And what we can put into place next month, then make it better. And I think having these frequent communications with those you work closely with is key. You know, it's a key to keeping the system, you know, in flow and devoid of viruses. Yeah, I think so, too.

It's wonderful to think about. Kennell, I could probably talk to you for another hour, and we should definitely come back on because I feel like I'm just kind of scratching the surface. And I have a bunch more questions, and I got another. engagement coming up. But this is fascinating. I like what you're doing. I think it's really fun. And I think we should get some more people in the conversation and have more robust conversation. Can you come back? And maybe. Yeah, let's do it. And I mean, we can even talk more about, we can talk more about teams. We can talk more about psychedelics. Whatever you'd like. But yeah,

it's been a real treat. And I love the thoughtful questions that you've asked. And yeah, just your enthusiasm around what I'm doing too is just it's really awesome to be a part of so thank you for having me yeah pleasure's all mine and I think more I think if anybody's listening to this whether you're listening to the live stream or whether you're on a road trip or you're running or you're listening to the podcast somewhere go down to the show notes and check out kendall she's got some incredible ideas and I really think what she's doing is not only building teams through shared sacrifice and shared goals, but she's building a better tomorrow. And, you know, for those listening, I just want to throw this one part in. I think on some level, if you ever want to be a leader, you have to be

fired. Like, if you ever want to be a leader, you have to understand what it's like to lose what you thought was your identity. Like, it's the only way. And I know some people have a negative bet about being fired or sometimes it's on a resume. But if you ever found yourself in that situation, I want to say congratulations to you because you've done something and hopefully your work working through something that most people might not be able to do. So people should be proud of that on some level. So let me, thanks for let me throw it out there. But I'll throw it back to you before I go, where can people find you?

What do you have coming up and what are you excited about? Yeah, thank you. Oh, just such a treat. Right. So you can find me on Instagram, guys. My handle is Kendall Wallace, one, two, three. And if you're curious at all about how I create off-sides, how I eat any team exercises that I use, I actually.

I actually give away my playbook for free because I just want more teams to really create trust within their organizations. So I give it all away. And if you're interested in getting that, then you can DM me Monty plus Playbook. And I will pass it to you. And yeah, and so DM me there or find me on LinkedIn and DME. And yeah, I'm just super excited. I'm going to two conferences actually coming up in the next two weeks. So I'll be off island and just basically all about group.

It's a group relations conference. So all about analyzing how it is that you operate within groups, which these are profound self-awareness opportunities. So I'll be going to two of those so that I can really begin to integrate some more. of that curriculum into my own off-sides. I can't wait to learn more of what you learn there. It's cutting edge. It's going to be beautiful,

and I think it's building a better tomorrow. So ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for hanging out with us today. Go check out Kindle. She's an incredible individual who cares about building a better tomorrow. So look her up, reach out to her, and tell you saw it on the True Life podcast.

That's all we got. Kendall, hang on briefly afterwards. Everybody else, have a beautiful day. We love you. Hello.