TrueLife - Kevin Holt - If you don’t have a seat at the table then your on the menu

Episode Date: August 22, 2022

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Tonight we speak with teacher , explorer, & author of the amazing book “Young, Successful, & Miserable.” He has also received acclaim for his ideas about and  course on breath-work, all of which can be found on his website. (Link below)https://www.kevinholt.me/Kevin Holt telegram https://t.me/kevinholtbreath One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. We are here with the one and only Kevin Halt, explorer, author of the tremendous book, young, successful. and miserable. If you have, he's also put out quite a few,

I know you have at least one course in breath work. Do you have multiple courses in breath work? I've got two. Well, let's, I've got, let's say a free course that's on my YouTube channel,

which I haven't done any effort really into growing or promoting, but I loaded these videos up there. So I have a, 20 or 21 free sessions. that was sort of like my trial run at this course and then out there I was selling it for a while and I decided I just give it away and then I spent about a year redoing it and making it better making it longer adding content selling on my website that's a longer course and then I've got a short paid course that's just meditation that's what I call a 28 day meditation course because it's 28 different meditations that you can do one at a time and And so, yeah, I guess two courses, two pay courses, one free one, and the book. That's what I got right now.

Nice, man. It's a, do you find that, I'm sure that when you began building those courses, I'm sure you were familiar with it and you saw the results in your own body and your own way of life. But after you made those courses, did you find that after, like, I always found that after I write something or I try to build something, my understanding of it becomes much more intense and much more encompassing because it, oh, shoot, I lost them here. Oh, we lost them, ladies and gentlemen, but he'll be right back. Yeah, we're talking about the idea of once you begin teaching something, then you become even better at it. It's almost like you have to become better at it so that you can teach other people how to do it. I lost you there for a minute, but I was just telling the people that.

I forgot to switch the YPACA before, and then I switched it. Yeah, so I was just saying that like, you know, once you, whether it's teaching a course, maybe writing a book or teaching somebody anything, in order to be confident in yourself as a teacher, you really have to learn it. And then even when you become a teacher, it's like you learn a whole other side of it because you're showing it to somebody else and you're seeing it manifest than someone else. Did you find that once you created the course that you learned, learn more about it? Well, yeah, and I think one of the reasons I did create it was to learn more about it.

So when I went through, I did a yoga teacher training, I think it was like six years ago now. And what yoga teaches you is that there are basically, there's like kind of steps or step levels of techniques that you gradually add to your practice and the ultimate level being samadhi or enlightenment. And the first two are more like inner and outer disciplinary things, like don't be violent towards others, you know, trust and surrender. That's the internal thing. And then the third one is the, what we think of is yoga. You go to the studio, you do the downward dogs, the upward dogs, the asanas. And then it goes after asana, it goes pranayama, which is breathing, then meditation, then concentration, and then a couple other things and then enlightenment.

But what I found was that most yoga classes today in the West especially, they only really do the physical part. There are a couple teachers that might add in some breathing techniques and maybe give you a minute of meditation. But the way yoga was originally meant, it was meant to strengthen the body to allow you to meditate. It wasn't really about the postures. The only thing they ever wrote about the postures in the old book was to have a lot. a comfortable seated position. That's the only thing that was ever written. So the rest was all about meditation. But somehow over the years, I don't know, it's got lost in translation or mixed yoga classes now or just about sort of the aerobic part of it and the postures. And when I wanted to

do a teacher training, I wanted to explore more of these deeper yoga, as you could call them, the breathing, the meditation. And I found that they didn't really even teach that then. There was some there was a little bit about that but it was still mostly about how to design a class how to do the posture correctly how to correct the posture and others and so on so I found this gap in in the breathing and I had a book on it but no one really taught me so I just decided to start reading the book and practicing it and then sort of trying to piece together all the stuff that's out there and as I learned it I would you know practice it and then make a video on it and so I thought that that was something that people might benefit from so then I made the video

and it's I didn't really have a purpose what I was going to do with it and I wasn't sure I was going to finish it at one point. I was just doing it. And this is a kind of fun little anecdote on listening to the universe where I had started to do it. And then I got to a point where I said to myself, what am I doing with it? What do I want to do now? And I was sort of confused up to what to do next. and I already put some of it on YouTube and no one's looking at this course

I mean maybe a few dozen people some friends you know a couple dozen views maybe a hundred at the most and the most popular one and my friends commenting and stuff I mean no one really saw it and I remember one day I put it out there I just sort of in meditation I said well what should I do

what should I do next and then I went to sleep and woke up and some totally random person commented one of my videos saying, oh, I really loved your video. You told me, I've been teaching yoga for years and I haven't seen some of this stuff. I really like it. And then I was like, oh, okay, that's sort of an answer, I guess. Yeah, yeah.

The universe going like, okay, finish the course. So then I finished it. And then I finished it up maybe six months ago and then slowly started putting it out there and got a few people doing it and sharing, you know, through word of mouth. So that was kind of fun the way that sort of played out. Yeah. You know what? And I really think that that particular scenario plays out in people's lives.

And sometimes they miss it. I know what's happened to me. And even in my life, if I'm paying attention, you know, a little while ago, maybe a couple days ago, like, it's so easy to get burned out and get, you know, just like, oh, what am I doing? And I think everybody goes to these phases where they find out, like, you know, what, what am I doing? And one of the last week I was just sitting in my work truck and thinking about stuff and going like, oh man, you know, it's not, things aren't exactly where I want them to be. And I just kind of put my hand in my, or my head in my hands for a little bit. And I was just sitting there thinking, and some random stranger walks by and he's like,

hey, buddy, you're doing a great job. Hang in there. You know, I just, I just started laughing. I'm like, oh, man, the universe loves me, man. Like, like, what kind of a, is that random? Is that really random? Like if I have this thought in my head, like, and then just some voice in the ether yells out, like, you're crushing it, buddy. Keep going.

You know, like I, I guess you could choose to see it either way. You could choose to say, oh, well, that was odd. Or you could choose to say, look, that's the connections. Like, that's you putting a thought out there and something answering back. Because what's the difference between a voice in your head and a voice outside your head? You know, it's, I guess you could say schizophrenia and normal people, but I mean, it's, it's similar to. me. And I think that those instances happen more often than not. And if you're willing to pay attention, and maybe it's the breathing, maybe it's yoga, maybe that's just being in tune with

your body or the planet around you. But those things happen. And I, I'm willing to bet a lot of people just pass them by daily. For sure. And what this question gets really interesting, depending on how, what angle you take it. Because I've got tons of examples like that, where, like you said, you were frustrated. or lost and then you get this little boost that says, you know, keep going, keep going. Yeah. What about the stories and there are some good ones there of where the universe is telling you stop or like just making everything into an even worse disaster?

Like just nothing is going right and it gets worse and worse and worse and you think, how could this, like everything that goes wrong possible happens, how do you tell the difference between whether this is the universe saying, no, stop doing it, or if it's that test of how bad do you want it, you have to keep going. I think it's really difficult sometimes to figure out which is which. And I was just listening, not listening, I was reading a book describing, I forget the name of the movie. I think it'll come to me later, but it's Francis Ford Coppola who made the movie Apocalypse now, which you probably have seen.

And most people have seen that movie. but there was another movie I think it's called Into Darkness or Heart of Darkness which is the movie about him making Apocalypse now Oh wow And I haven't watched it

I want to watch it after I read this But apparently It nearly ruined him Making this movie It completely it bankrupted him He went to debt He was worried about losing his career And family

It took him years He was shooting this movie in the Filipino jungle and he had all this footage and he just didn't he had some kind of thing in him that said i need to do this but he didn't have any concrete vision he didn't know what it was about and something just drove him to keep doing it keep doing it and keep doing it and disasters kept happening happening he rewrote the script like i don't know how many times dozens of times and almost lost his mind and went into a suicidal depression trying to get this movie done and then at the end he had this basically masterpiece most people agree that that movie is a masterpiece yeah but something was keeping

him going through all that time and he put it all on the line you know yeah and it would make feedback no positive feedback yeah i think that happens i don't know where you draw that line but i see that same thing in people at the top of their games regardless of what game they're playing like if you take jeff bezos for example like here's a guy that started off selling books and he's got his life, he's got a family. And then at some point in time, he hooks up with the CIA and it turns into a behemoth. But look at that guy's life where, you know, he goes from being one guy. And at some point in time, he has to ask himself, okay, what's more important, this Amazon thing or my family?

You know, what's more important? and me being a defense contractor and creating this thing that's going to last forever or me spending my limited time on earth with the people that I love. Like if you look at people that in finance, like almost every one of them has been divorced at least once. A lot like look at Al Gore's kids

who try to commit suicide or like so many people when you get to a level, it's almost like that saying you can only, a man can only serve one master. Like you got to choose. choose like do you want to be the greatest at the game because if you do that's all you can do you can only play the game you don't have time for a family you don't have time for kids you don't have time for a way you can set you can half ass it but you know are you really given all

you can't because you can't give everything you have to two things if you want to be the best then you've got to choose and you know I don't know where that line is drawn if if it's the world maybe it's always a test you know maybe it's it's it's it's it's it's always a test. What do you want to do? How bad do you want it? And sometimes you get to that test and you look back at your family. You look back, you look at the, you look at the, you look at the, you look at the fork in the road. Hey, am I going to go to the right? Am I going to go to the left? Because it's dead ends here. I got to choose one. So maybe maybe the line isn't so much a line as it is a fork in the road, as it is a decision. Yeah, I was using about these these topics

a couple weeks ago. And maybe we already talked about this. I can't remember. But there, there's a saying, I think it's from Mexico that says you have two deaths. First death is when you die and the second death is the last time anyone speaks your name. And for the majority of people, if you really think about it, I mean, two or three generations after you're dead, no one's going to remember you anymore because everyone you knew is also dead. and so the only way or it seems to me the only way if you're motivated by a legacy right the desire to live forever in some form you have to do something either really amazing or really awful yeah and what kind of obsession must such a person possess for that thing in order to drive it to

completion. And like you said, you can only serve one master. Those people that have done those really amazing or really terrible things, they've been minded. Only that, no looking at any other direction until they went to some mastery level. And I think, like you said, to have a balanced life, you know, if you want to do that, you can't have that. You've got to be totally unbalanced and obsessed.

Yeah. It's, you know, I like to read different biographies. and when you say that, I've never heard that before you have two deaths. I never heard that the last time somebody says your name, but it makes sense when it comes to mortality and immortality. On the topic of biographies, sometimes you read the biographies of, you know, there was one called Titans, and it was like, you know, the rail, Carnegie and, you know, the railroad magnets and all these people,

and they talk about how driven they were. And you can read Rockefeller's biography and how he's mean to his kids and try to trick them into like being crazy people and stuff. But then you read biography, biographies about people laying on their deathbed. And the majority of the ones I read about people on their deathbed, they don't, their last breath is like it, it's never about money or legacy. It's about I wish I was a better father. I wish I was a better person. And I remember a quote that says, at some. point in life, money has a discount rate. Like, the older you get, like the less it's worth.

You could have tons of it when you're old. But if you're old and you're dying, what good is it? You know, and maybe, maybe that's that line where if you, if you spent your whole life building a masterpiece, building a fortune, building a fortress and a behemoth of a company and now you're, I don't know, 85 years old and you're on your third heart transplant, like what good, all you have is that money. So that money becomes your baby and you use it to, to push people around to show that you're still relevant. And in some ways, sometimes I think, and I'm not a billionaire. I'm not, I don't own any companies that are bohemists or anything like that. But in some ways, I feel like those people never really got to live because they spent all their time building this sandcastle, right?

At the end of the day, nothing lasts. Even if it's 10 generations, it's not going to last. And so if you're fighting to have people speak your name when you're not around, you're definitely not living in the present. You know what I mean? Yeah. It doesn't seem to be much correlation between those kinds of wealth and happiness. I mean, I know some very happy, wealthy people.

Yeah. Some very miserable and wealthy people, the ones that are happy, they seem to get it. from having a sense of purpose by, you know, the idea that they're helping others. And the more money they have, the more people they can help. And it's the scroogees that are of the unhappy that just sit in their wealth and try to preserve it. Yeah. I just thought it was while you were talking, but I can't remember what it was now.

A couple things. There was a study, I think Harvard did this. It was a 70-year, you know what the study I'm talking about? I may, but please flesh it out. I'm not sure. I think it was a 70 year. I think it's the longest study ever done. I think it was done over 70 years where they tracked like 5,000 people

or some pretty significant number of people throughout those 70 years and then had them rate their happiness after that time period and then correlate well with, you know, what do they associate happiness with? And it was always relationships. That was the main driver was health of relationships. So that goes to what you were saying before about where do you put your focus? Yeah.

And I don't know that's a pretty good point, but it'll come to me. But it was a bit on this topic. I heard a similar, I heard a study too. And sometimes whenever I see a study that's in the papers, I begin to question it. Like if it's all over the news and it's on the papers, I start to think, oh, that's probably propaganda. But the study was something like they, they, It was some Ivy League school and they did a study and they came to the conclusion that if you make $70,000 a year, you're not much, you'll never be much happier than someone that makes a million dollars a year.

But then I started thinking, that's they probably just tell that to people that make $70,000 a year so they don't want to make more. So they feel good about themselves, you know, like, how do I think, you know, I never looked into the study. But the more that I thought about it, I'm like, dude, that sounds like, I don't even know how you, first of all, how would you measure that? second off a lot of people make like 70,000. So they're probably telling all those people, hey, don't worry, you're just as happy as this guy that drives the Bentley over here, living on the mountain, which is probably not true. But yeah, I don't know.

That's interesting. There's a lot of ways you can go with that data, because for sure, there's an angle of them trying to keep, you know, the little man down and saying, you try to get the millions. But on the flip side, I do think there is, a diminishing return to more money. And I don't know if it's 70,000, maybe it's 110, maybe it's 150. I don't know. I do think there is some number because I hit that number too. At some point I had a pretty good, I think at my best I was making like 140,000 at my old job.

For me, that was great. That's huge, man. I'm looking around, looking at what the stuff I buy? and I'm going, well, like, what am I going to do with the rest of the money after? Because I didn't, it wasn't spending. I mean, I take trips and stuff, but I wasn't spending nearly enough to, to use up all my salary. And it sounds like a hard problem to have, right? It's a really tough. Isn't this guy. Oh, my God.

He's got too much money to go. Right. But it wasn't a problem. But at some point, I was like, man, I don't really know how much, how much more money I need. And the idea of having raises wasn't super motivating because I felt like it had plenty. But then again, for. for anyone listening, I'm not kind of, I'm a little bit abnormal with my spending. I wouldn't use the label minimalist, but it's pretty close to that. I mean, I've got like, you know, 10 pairs of shirts

and, you know, two pairs of pants and three, four pairs of shorts. I don't really buy anything. I never had a car. I never owned property or had really much desire to own property. I like being unattached and untethered where I could just get a room here. And anytime I want to leave, I could just leave. So I like that flexibility. I got there by not tethering myself too much to stuff. But yeah, so for me, it was more than enough. But it's very individual. There are people that are making 300, 400 and think they don't have enough

because they take their money. Like my old boss, he was easily making $400,000, $500,000 when I left. And he was always somehow not having money because he would, I mean, he had two kids and his wife was staying home. but even so he uh yeah he just bought a house like he was doing something he was always put money down and he never had cash you never had cash flow so yeah it's it's it's extremely individual yeah i got another friend he he hasn't worked in like 10 years really and he doesn't spend anything he i just talked to him a couple weeks ago he was on his third house sit tour

so he arranged some i don't know if it's through an app or something but he would get free rent just house sitting. He would kind of bounce around between pet owners, watching their dogs and cats in exchange for free rent. He basically dumpster dives. I'm not exactly sure how he got his food, but he somehow got free food. And then he would sort of barter for things.

He teaches massage, and he would go to music festivals and do massages in exchange for whatever. So, I mean, yeah, so individual. Yeah, it's awesome to hear that you can, And so much of what we're taught growing up, maybe it's the Prussian school model or maybe it is just the world of industry and the way we learn. But we're taught that this is the way to do it. You go to school, you find a job, you work for somebody, you get a paycheck, and then you have a family and then you die. You know, it's like this race from cradle to grave.

And maybe that system is out there because people need structure or maybe that system is out there because there's a, true ruling class that needs maybe that's the way society is structured is that hey every but we need the majority people to work a handful of people don't have to but it's it's always interesting to me to see people who have chosen a different path be it living in bali be it your friend that has found a way to make some money here and there and i that may not be the path for everybody but i think it's important for young kids to see or understand that the there are different ways to do it. And you don't have to be given this cookie cutter idea of life because there's a lot of wiggle room.

There's a lot of ways to live a life worth living if you're willing to take a chance. Yeah. I think one of the major issues we have in the Western society is that there is no, like, we were never taught that it's okay when you have enough. Yeah. When do you have enough? That's not emphasized. What's emphasizes more.

Yeah. More stuff, more money. And how many people lost fortunes in crypto recently because they saw the number go up and they want, I want a higher number. I want a higher number. And they kept waiting and waiting and waiting. And then they got dumped on by the whales that are like, all right, we're going to sell on all these plebs and take all their money. Yeah. Because they couldn't sell because they wanted a bigger number.

And then people who manage their wealth, I know some of these people that they're obsessed with wealth management. And their whole goal, again, is to make the number higher. And some of them never have any cash. Yeah. Because everything is locked up in some fund or whatever. They're just trying to grow their wealth, but they're not actually spending their money a lot of the time.

So when is it okay? And that's something anybody should ask them. on the regular basis or anybody listening now. When is it okay to feel like you have enough? And what is enough for you? What is what you need just to feel happy and like you're okay? We're not really taught to think that way. Yeah, we're taught just the opposite.

We're taught that not only do you not have enough, but you're not enough? Like, look at this magazine. Look at this beautiful girl in this magazine. Look at this guy over here on the magazine. smoking a cigar next to a Bentley. How come that's not you? You know, like, and, and it's not, they don't use the words and say you're not enough, but what they do is communicate it to you through symbols and imagery.

And even if you talk to your neighbor, you know, oh, look, your neighbor got a new car. You know, there's a, there's a thing called keeping up with the Joneses. And, you know, every, every company is built on the idea of excess profit. Like that's, you know, I was listening to this climate change meeting and it was all these captains of industry. And they were talking about all these things that they were doing to help climate change. But all I heard was them cutting prices. Like when I think of here, here's some things that they were talking about. So there was like a fast food, someone who owned multiple fast food chains.

And they says, you know, when climate change came around, we thought. it was like a good idea to get rid of like the excess stuff that hurt the planet like straws and bags and I'm like no you didn't that's like somebody in a meeting that's like why are we giving away straws for free you know that's like why are we giving away these bags for free they just found a way to get rid of the stuff and they had already factored in the straws and the bags in their in their yearly quarterly monthly whatever hey what if we get how much money can we save if we get rid of straws make people bring their own straws and do their own bags or we can we can do this so then they get rid of that stuff they're like climate change you know what i mean and then there was another company that was

talking about uh they were selling beverages of some sort and they're like you know we are um we are excited because we are we're using this different type of of packaging and you know it makes me think whenever I see companies that are selling stuff, I don't care what they're selling. If you are a business and your business is based on selling excess, like you want people to buy more. Like you're not doing anybody any favor. So you shouldn't lie about it. Your business model is based on selling excess widgets. Like you want to sell as much as possible. Like you're doing the opposite of cutting back. Your whole like your business would crash. if you sold less.

So how can you possibly sit up here and say you're trying to make things better? You're not. It's just, it just, I don't know. It trips me out how we bend backwards to say things that are untrue. Like even corporations today have this term called negative growth. Like what the, what the heck is negative growth? We're so obsessed with growth that you can't say you're losing. You say we have negative growth.

So I think it comes back to wealth. It goes back to profits and I think it comes back to us being programmed to see things a certain way. Yeah. And for anybody listening, I'm not saying you shouldn't have more. You know, if you want more, you want to earn more. Like, that's great. Everything's fine. It's just the idea that you aren't good because you don't have more.

I think that's a part to work on. Yeah. Because I'm in favor. I like money. Money solves a lot of problems. You can change it, exchange it for things. It's great. It is great.

I want to sound like one of these money downers. Yeah, no, money's awesome. Don't get me wrong. But in some ways, I think it can poison you in some ways because once you start making a lot of money. Oh, my back. Yeah, like it's all good. Money is awesome, but you should be careful, I think. It's a slippery slope.

Sometimes I think the more you get the, and maybe this is, maybe it's not just with money. Maybe it's with everything. the more you get, the deeper you get into it a little bit. I don't know, it depends on maybe how you define money. Like, what is money? Is money a tool? Is money a status symbol? Like, is it a measurement of time?

Like, how would you define money? Yeah. It's how you define wealth ultimately, right? Yeah, there you go. So wealth, an aspect of wealth could be your health. It could be your relationships. So you've got to take in all these things to, actually say I'm a wealthy person.

I'm living a life full of abundance and wealth. So I define it that way. I add time to the equation. Yeah. A person who has lots of money but no time, I don't know if that person's wealthy because they're not using their time and they may lose it and then regret

not doing something differently with it. So I think you've got to put wealth into it. And one person has defined it, which I kind of like, is how much based on what your money, whatever you have now, how much free time would you be able to have with that? If your income stopped, how long could you stay alive with your current level of money? So it's another way to think about it. Is it six months?

Is it a year? But yeah, time definitely factors in. Yeah. I agree too. Lifestyle and like having relationships and having the ability to live. your life and like being healthy like you said being able to spend time with people you love or what if you have a toothache you know it helps to have money to get that fixed you know what um you know let let's shift gears here for a minute you told me earlier that you have a friend

who has been practicing yoga and is asking questions like what is is yeah this is uh uh Huge can of worms, a lot of rabbit holes to go down into. This is the same friend I mentioned earlier who lives more or less without money. I've known him for over 20 years. And he's a very smart guy. And he's probably introduced me to a lot of different spiritual books over the years because we talk on the phone, exchange, information. So lately he's been getting into an author, which I recommend everybody check out.

who's at all interested in the spiritual path and spiritual growth. His name's Jed McKenna. Funny that is a McKenna and all the other great McKenna's out there. He's, I think he's dead now, but he's got eight or nine books that he's written on these topics that are, I think they're wildly entertaining. I love this writing style. It's humorous.

He's got a really, he's a really smart guy and really engaging writer. I think I've written, I've read all those books, I think two or three times. now. Oh, wow. And he writes about enlightenment. So this is a guy who claims he's an enlightened being. And he set out to write these books to explain what it is and what it isn't. So we get on these topics of all the different writers, man, those mores are really loud right now.

Yeah, all the different writers and what they define as enlightenment. And what it's been over the years and this guy is saying they're all wrong it's this so he got on this path and we've had these discussions and now he feels like he's going through this enlightenment process that this writer describes and then so we started talking about all the different ego traps that exist on the way because ultimately I guess one way you could define enlightenment is the dissolution the self. So whatever we have is our opinions, beliefs, identity, what's at the core of our being, of what our existence is. And a lot of different writers have tried to point to the same thing, I believe. And I think what they're talking about is, I don't know if everyone who's listening

has experienced this, but there is something fundamental to everything else that you experience. And it's that idea the watcher, that whatever, the presence, wherever you're, wherever you are, it's a thing that's taking the information, the thing that is sensing, the thing that is experiencing before the thoughts and the emotions and the judgments that follow. The idea that you're just awake and alert, the thing that's perceiving everything, we can call that awareness. And I think that's what the most writers are talking about when you get to the true self. It's this thing that's eternal, ageless, if you really close your eyes and try to experience it. I personally don't feel any older now at the core than I did when I was 15. Yes, my thinking has changed. I'm more wise. My personality

has changed. But there's that thing at the fundamental building block of being that's the same always, that perceiver. So this guy, Jed McKenna, he says we don't have a self. He says the self is a lie and that once we extract all of these things that are the superficial self we get nothing and all of reality is an illusion all of the things that we are seeing and talking about they're just constructs of thoughts and they're all false and they don't they're not actually the true self at the at the bottom so he's my friend is going through this now and he's he's saying that he he's experiencing this now. And I was talking earlier about how it's not that different from a dissociative disorder

that you would label somebody as being crazy because he's now basically telling me he's, he doesn't see anything as real. People, the world, it's all illusion, it's all entertainment. So then I started thinking, how many potentially enlightened people are just labeled as crazy? Maybe they're all beyond us. and how many people really are just crazy. I don't know. It's a huge rabbit hole to get into it.

And then I asked them the question. I said, how do you know that what you think you're experiencing isn't actually your mind convincing you that that's what you're experiencing because you desire enlightenment? So it's still ego. Yeah.

So I don't know. Ego is everywhere, man. So you have those conversations. That's awesome. Too out there for a lot of people. I don't know. I think it's fascinating. Like, you know, I can understand.

I've gotten some pretty deep spots before where, you know, I'm sitting here thinking like, dude, I'm making this guy move over here. Like, that's me doing that, you know. Or even when we talked earlier about how we both had situations where we felt like the universe was speaking to us. On some level, that's kind of the same thing is being aware of that. I heard a story one time. of a guy was sitting in a car

and he says he was just sitting in his car and he was watching he was waiting for a friend to come back or his wife to come back and he was sitting in this car and he was staring at this old ramshackled house on top of the hill. It might have been Terrence McKinnett and he was just staring at this house

staring at this house and he goes I wonder if I could collapse this house with my mind like he was just thinking that and so he stared at it he stared at it and the house boom it crumbled and fell to the ground He's like, true story.

Dude, he just, he, he, the whole house crushed. And he's like, I just did this. And he said he just put his head in his hands. And he's like, that's the crazy. He just started freaking out. And then he looked back up and there was a bulldozer behind the house. They were tearing the house down. But he didn't see the bulldozer.

But he thought he did it because he didn't see the bulldozer. You know, and it turns out they were working up there and stuff. But for a moment, like, he collapsed that house in his mind, you know. And it just made me. Then I went down the. rabbit hole, like, well, maybe he made the bulldozer, you know, but in some ways, if you look at the way you accomplish your dreams, you accomplish your goals, at some point in time, like you've written a book, you've created courses,

at some point in time, you had to translate your vision into reality, right? When you talk about it to dream, when you envision it's possible, but when you schedule it, it becomes real. Like you've taken something abstract in your mind that existed in only your mind and you have turned it into reality. You've just turned it into a book. You know, it's like, boom, I made this. And at first it was just abstract.

So in some ways, what your friend is saying is, you know, if you can take things from inside your head and put them into the real world, like, that's, that's a pretty abstract way to manifest things, but people do it all the time. Some people do it on a bigger scale, right? Is that kind of similar? Sort of. what he's saying is that it's all, or what this author is saying, is that, how do I put it in his words, all beliefs are false, basically. And the only thing that you can say for sure is that I exist because I'm aware.

And I can't say for sure that you even exist because I can't experience you. You could be very well just an actor in this hologram that seems to be assembling itself around me, with me at the center as if I were in a video game. And we don't have to take it to that degree to start to see how many things in the world are actually illusory. And we talked about it before with a little bit about what science is telling us, but even think about the concept of government. We have, you know, these people, there's an agreement we have, apparently, that people rule us. And we never voted for it. We can vote for people. We can vote for who is ruling us.

But I don't remember voting on whether I was going to be ruled or not. We just sort of all accepted that. And the things that are constructed in the political space with the media, so much. much of that is illusion because it's just narrative. They're crafting narrative. And in many ways, it's just like a game of who can craft the most compelling story and get the most adherence to that story to then join their side of the game. And it's almost like the person who lies the best, participates in the illusion of the best, gets the most spoils. And I don't know, it's really, really, it's quite humbling to think about that sometimes where you don't, like, when do we all

agree to all this? Are we just sharing, are we sharing an illusion of systems? And this is just, this is the way it is, but we've just sort of dreamed that in existence and we're just accepting it. Because as you said, it was a thought at some point. Some people got together and they thought, how do we structure society and they did it? But maybe there's a better idea, but we're just, maybe, you know, we haven't found it yet, but we're just participating in this illusion because that's the way things are. So that's one example of how we can't ever really be sure about what's real

if we're getting our information secondhand all the time. And pretty much all the information we ever get is secondhand. So even to give the example of people that will quote scripture and we'll say Jesus Jesus said X. Well, we don't know that because even if there, let's assume that there was a Jesus, which we're pretty sure that there was a real guy, but we can't say for sure. We don't know what he said exactly. And we also don't know what he meant by that because it's been interpreted.

It's been recorded by somebody and interpreted by somebody. So all I have to do is get people to believe what I believe. and then they live in my world. Yeah, that's the illusion. It's like how to get people to believe your version of things and what are beliefs, if not emotional attachments? So that would explain why emotional triggers get people so much. And that's why people use plays on emotion.

It's just a way to draw them into your fantasy or your illusion. Yeah, and that's what we're seeing with what's going on in the media right now. everyone's getting all riled up about the blue team or the red team of what they're on and they're using your emotions to get you to solidify your belief and ultimately probably aren't getting conflict with each other because whatever it is is ego the desire to be right desire that your tribe is the one and then you solidify your beliefs like that with belonging or whatever it is that that keeps you in there so if you remove emotional attachments what beliefs do you have left?

If there's, you know, if there's nothing tying you to it, what do you believe in? And a lot of what we have in terms of our existential belief systems like religions, he says, he argues this guy, that it's just all fear, that our ultimate fear of non-existence has created a story of an afterlife or a heaven or a reincarnation. so that becomes a belief system that we attach to because we feel better about it. And that's all it is. He calls it like a drug. It's just a drug to keep us docile.

It's very interesting. There's a lot of different layers to it. It is. It is. It's fascinating. I've done some thought about, I've done some thought experiments before. We're like, do I think that I could throw myself off a cliff? Or do I think that I could be like a mass shooter or something crazy?

And like, I don't think I can. Like, you know, and like, is it possible? And part of me is like, I don't. I don't think it is. Like, I don't think it's possible. Like, I don't think I can do that. And, you know, it just, it begs the, and then that begins to beg the question of, like,

it is, maybe it is an illusion. I mean, theoretically, if I walked into the freeway, I could get hit by a car. But I can't see myself walking into the freeway. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's crazy to think about. I'm really drawn to the idea of, like, you know, when you,

when we think about people that are entrepreneurs or you think about people that are charismatic leaders, being church leaders or Jones Town leaders or famous authors, famous movie people, they have just figured out a way to draw people in. And if in some ways, like the concept of it,

if you just think about it from that aspect, seems easy. Like if you just don't think about how to do it, if you just think about doing it, Like, I'm going to create something for everybody. And I want them all to come here. It's going to be free and you're going to love it. Like, that could be the beginning intro into this world.

And in some ways, like, in some ways I can see it, man. Like, you know, if you just begin to see yourself changing, and this kind of gets into the psychedelic trip a little bit. Like, I've had psychedelic trips where like, dude, I'm totally God. I should probably walk down the street and start telling people. Like, it's been some pretty high doses, you know, but I'm like, people probably need to know this. And in fact, I can feel.

something inside of me that says, I need to go preach and tell people this. And like, it's, it's a crazy thing, but is it that crazy? If, if in fact, you are, it all is an illusional construct, maybe that's the way to get people around you. You know, maybe that is what's one way to bring people into your circle is to, you know, why not? Like, everybody, listen. I have something important to say, God is in me, you know, like people would listen to that. They might think you're crazy, but like they would listen. Some of them would be like, there's maybe something about this guy, you know? But it's weird to think. No kids are ever taught that in school. Like, hey, tell the biggest lie, tell the biggest story, and people will surround you and give you everything.

You can make people give you everything if you just tell them to. No one, no one's taught that, right? Right. And what's that cool? I think it's Goebles or somebody like tell, like the bigger the lie is, the more people will believe it. Yeah. Yeah. There's some kind of, game to it and it's the more you can create illusion the more you can enforce illusion the better you do in this game yeah yeah then you start you start going down the the world of like conspiracy theories like the more compelling the story the better it is like if you take the moon landing for example like who's got the better story is it the story of Neil Armstrong and the people landing one small step for man one giant step for like that's

a pretty compelling story. But then there's also this other movie that's like a funny thing happened on the way to the moon. He Stanley Kubrick made this thing. Like which story is better? Because, you know, which one do you want to believe? Because the one you want to believe is going to be the one that you do believe. And it's not so much, when I look at different conspiracies, you know, maybe it's, you know, maybe it's something Alex Jones says.

Or maybe it's the, that shooting they had in Texas or something. like which story is more compelling to you. And it's not so much which one is true. It's which one is more compelling. And that's what the media is doing. They're like, we've got to get rid of those Alex Jones. He's got some compelling stories.

His stories are better than our stories. It's not, they're not even talking about what's true or not. We're talking about which is the better story. So if you can incorporate that into your life, like maybe that comes back to language too. Maybe everybody should be working on their language so that they can tell a better story.

you know if you're in a situation with your boss or a loved one maybe you should have the best possible language so that you can explain to people in fine detail why what you did was vastly superior and then it was noble that you had to do these things and the other person is just a big dummy you know maybe that's the way you know what you know what the most overpaid profession is or one of them um an actor public speaking actor actor too but think of about public speakers. I mean, the best speakers that can make, you know, a million plus just to go talk for a half an hour, hour. Yeah. Because there's something to that ability to persuade and tell stories that is powerful. Yeah. And if you think everything is persuasion in stories, you go,

oh, okay, well, like, it's very reality shifting to start looking at things like that. And how many things that in the past we might have gotten hyped or excited about that turns out to be nothing. That happens to me a lot Where there's something is just hype There's actually no substance to it at the end of the day Yeah And that goes I heard on gosh

There was a German philosopher I forgot his name Anyways he said that the spoken Like the written word Is the carcass of the spoken word And that gets back to speakers Like a singer A live performance is kind of

a speaker like think about people breaking into tears when people sing like there's just emotion to it and and if we take it if we if we attach it to like maybe the homeric verses or earlier time when there were people that would go around and tell stories they would speak you know that's why the the homeric verses are poems like when there's something that's to be said about reading a poem that makes you feel the language the same way the spoken word or a charismatic speaker makes you feel something, you know, and there's a structure to a poem. There's a structure to the spoken word, and the spoken word can make you cry. The spoken word can drive a stadium of people to their feet clapping, and the spoken word can make Christians fight lions, you know,

and like, there's something to be said about the spoken word, and isn't it interesting how we've gotten away from the spoken word? And we've, we've, we see. see people that, you know, like Charles Manson was a pretty good speaker. You ever listen to that guy talk? Like, that guy was almost infectious. Like, if you listen to that guy, like, he sounds crazy, but it's, it's almost like he has this perfect cadence. It's almost as if he's saying things in a way that are hypnotic.

And, you know, it's also pretty interesting to think that you have corporations that study speakers like that yeah the spoken word the written word is the carcass of the spoken word so how do we harness that to become how do we harness that to make our lives better well i think maybe we just make a better let's make a better illusion yeah because the illusion that are that the illusions that are going around today i got to say i'm not really a fan of yeah i don't really like the stories that are on from today. No. We can,

we, let's create one right now. So here's what we have today. We have that politicians are corrupt. We have corporations are corrupt. We have the world might revolt. All of our institutions are useless. Yep.

Yeah. So that could be the foundation. Like that should be the found. We could build off of that. Like so if it's like a choose your own adventure story, like that should be the foundation. We should incorporate all those ones and be like, Yes, those are all true. And now here's what happens.

If we can, if we tell the future, are we creating the future? In kind of a way it seems. That's why we talked about before where I was, I decided we both simultaneously sort of had the idea to redo the Ellocinian mysteries. Yes. Imagine you get enough people on the same page together and then we're creating a new illusion together. Yeah. Yeah.

And it is. And that takes us back to gerbils. If you say the bigger, the bigger the idea you get out there, the more true it becomes. And I've also heard the more often you say something, the more it's believed, regardless of how true it is. People begin to believe it. It begins to soak in. Yeah. Repetition and symbols are more powerful than we're.

Yeah. You can get the symbol, the right imagery that sticks in people's minds for a long time and their hearts in it. it's how you get to the heart. Yeah. What, like what kind of, what could we do that would make everybody better? Like, what, can we write something or can we create, can we create a story that would bring a little bit more love to everybody? I think we have to at this point. I don't think is a question of should we?

I mean, I think humanity of the world itself, like, we're on this, we're on a cusp right now, man. if you're following the same illusions that I am, this is a turning point. If we don't figure out a better story, I don't know if we're going to make it another 10 years like this. Maybe less than that. I was listening to a guy the other day that was projecting a billion deaths by 2025 because of famine, which he says is starting to kick in this fall, food shortages globally. And where famine, where you have famine, you have pandemic, You have war.

Those three always go together. So, yeah, we need to figure out a new story. We need to figure out how we can live free and in harmony with each other. I haven't worked out the story. Sometimes I debate between whether should I be actively participating in the illusions or should I just stay in my paradise where I am and observe things from far away, being a disinterested party? Right.

I struggle with that, you know? because my life is great. I mean, I'm seeing the stories to happen to other people, but I feel like not really touching me. You know, I see, like, throughout the pandemic, and even during the elections,

if you look... So I think I lost people in the second. Oh, no worries. If you look at the world through the screen of your phone, you see nothing but chaos and ridiculousness and people rioting and fighting,

but when I look out my window, I don't see any of that. And it makes me one, it gets us back to the idea of story, right? Like, really, there's going to be all this, there's going to be all this famine and stuff. And I don't want to be the guy that, like you said, I don't want to be the person that's not paying attention and not giving my due diligence to the situation. But I don't want to give my attention to it either to help strengthen it. On some level, I think if you participate in that illusion, then you give your consent to have that illusion, you know. And, you know, what about, I've heard some stories where people decided to quit paying their mortgages and then the banks, there's nothing the banks can do.

I have often seen a lot of the times in the United States, we look at China as a problem. And we say, look at all these horrible things happening there. But what I have been seeing, I've seen some pretty incredible inspiration when it comes to the idea of people. people standing up. And one of the first things I saw was when there were riots in China, I think it was in, what was that province that Britain just gave back to China? Hong Kong. Hong Kong.

Okay. So when after they gave that up, there was a lot of Hong Kong residents that were fighting back. And much like in the United States, when there's riots, the riot, please come in and they do tear gas. They have all kinds of different ways to disperse the crowds. What I saw in China was a bunch of people with umbrellas, and they had leaf blowers. So when the people would throw the tear gas, the guy would just come with his leaf blowers, like blow all the gas back towards the cops.

You know what I mean? It's a brilliant idea. The majority of the people all went with umbrellas. And then so the cops are trying to get everybody. Everybody puts up their umbrella. Now you can't see anybody. Sorry, cameras. We all have umbrellas.

You're not going to know who we are. And I was like, do what? an incredibly intelligent way to do some rioting. Hey, America, pay attention over here. You guys are to set of whatever you're going to do. You're going to riot, bring some umbrellas, bring a leaf blower. You know, we can learn a lot. Another thing they had, because they cut all the cell phone lines, all the people over there had Bluetooth connections. So their phones became like walkie-talkies. And they could, you know, you could download an app. There's one called Birkman. There's walkie-talkies. You can download all these apps. And then you circumvent all those

cell towers and everybody's phone becomes a connection. So in some ways, the people in China who are rioting are teaching the people over here who are rioting. So the recent one I saw is that much like what happened during the housing crisis in 2008 in America where the banks and the insurance companies got all bailed out and the homeowners kind of got screwed. The same thing is kind of happening in China. However, in China, a lot of the people are like, yeah, we're just not going to pay anymore. None of us are going to pay anymore, not one dime. And like the banks are like, you got to pay.

And go ahead, come take your house. Come take it. And because it happened to a lot of the cops, a lot of the cops are like, yeah, we're not going to, we're not going to actually arrest them either. And that got me thinking like, you know what? Why is that not happening here? To anybody watching this right now, can you imagine, like, imagine if we took a page out of their book. Like, why are any of us paying our mortgages when,

And we know for a fact that the banks, they create money out of thin air. The insurance companies just have us over a barrel. But guess what? We have all the power. If next month, nobody pay their mortgage. No one should pay their mortgage. Like, let's just start this thing where people stop paying. All the cops, I live next to cops.

Hey, cops, don't arrest people for not paying their mortgages. Let's just not do it. Like, the banks are ruining a lot of people. And it's kind of fraud at the top. So what would happen if we went on a nationwide strike where everyone said, you know what? Homeowners, we're not going to pay our mortgages for six months just on a trial basis and see what happens. No cops are going to arrest us. Everything is going to run just fine.

But we want we're not going to pay our mortgages for six months because we're paying too much taxes. All these 87,000 IRS agents, why don't you send them to the Ukraine and get the money back? But I think that we could start something like that. Like, why can't we have the people, especially with communication today? you know, every Friday, nobody buys stuff from Amazon. Let's see what happens. I don't see why we can't have that. Like, I think it would, I think it would cause a radical shift in the way the world sees the people they govern.

What do you think? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the people creating the illusions are well aware of this. That's why they create those, these illusions of this or that. So we're actually fighting each other instead of doing what you're saying, gathering, and pooling our resources. And it seems like all of this push to censor the internet,

to take dissenting misinformation offline and ban people that say the wrong things. It's gradually by degrees translating into anybody that says anything against the regime narrative is considered a misinformationist. So then the question is, how do we organize? How do we identify one another? Because eventually online, it's not going to really be the place for it. There's been so many stories of Facebook groups being deleted. There was a big vaccine injury group even of like 200,000 people sharing stories that just was deleted by Facebook.

So I'm not sure how much time we have before that will become a virtual impossibility without connecting in the real world. I don't know how we're going to do it unless we find a completely encrypted free speech platform. And there are some people that are trying to make that happen where you just have unrestricted free speech, which I think you have to have that. I think they know that. I think the people controlling information know that very well. And they're trying to make it hard for us. Because if we can do that, if we can get out of these illusions that are making us fight each other and make a new illusion where we come together, law enforcement, lawyers, people, all. sharing the idea, then the controllers don't have any power because they only have power

at the extent that they can enforce their system on us. And if we got people in the system on our side, then we win at the end of the day. So what about, like, why do we need new platforms? Why don't we just convince the people at the top of these platforms? Like, like, I got to think Mark Zuckerberg is probably, he's probably one of the smartest people on the planet. Like, I've seen that guy talk and I've seen him explain things in a way where I'm like dude this guy's this guy's brilliant I got to think that that guy probably wants what's best for the world I got to think at least some there's and like let's say that he didn't I bet you there's people in that company that do like why not just get rid of the people at the top so you know what I had

this thing okay dude it's so funny because I was just reading this book for everybody this book is called this book is by Carol Quigley and it's called the evolution of civilizations. Carol Quigley was Bill Clinton's mentor. And can I just read you a little blurb a little bit right here? It talks about like the different stages of civilizations. And like civilizations come and they fall. They rise and it happens all the time and we can look from Sumeria to Rome. You can just go back as far as you want and it's always there.

So he's talking about like stage three right here. And what he says is that when civilization, the problem is this. When when the organization had, okay, so when the instrument of expansion becomes institutionalized. When the instrument becomes an institution, that is the problem. So when you have this idea of capitalism, when that becomes an institution. So it's no longer a device. It's no longer an instrument to create growth for everybody. Now it becomes an institution for people to go and take from.

That's another way of saying corruption. It's another way of seeing the process through a big lens in a third person of you. I'm going to say it again, just because I think it's worth repeating. When the instrument of expansion becomes an institution, that is a sign that is a huge problem. And that's kind of where we're at now. So there are, there's three things you can do when we get to the point we're at now,

according to this guy. One is reform. One is circumvention. And the third is reaction. We speak of reform when the organization of expansion is rearranged so that it ceases to be an institution. and becomes an instrument once more. We speak of circumvention when the vested interest groups are left with much of their

privileges intact and when a new instrument of expansion, think of a new technology, especially a new surplus accumulating instrument, grows up alongside the older institution. We speak of reaction when the privileged vested interest groups are able to prevent either reform or circumvention and in consequence the rate of expansion continues to decrease. So there's three things according to this guy that can happen. So, and the best one would be for, you know, the best possible outcome would be for us to reform what we already have now. And maybe, maybe this is a story. Maybe all this hubbub, maybe all this way, it's going to be World War III.

There's going to be famine. All these people are going to die. Maybe this is the death throes of a privileged class desperately trying to get you to pay attention to the stupid story. Maybe this is what freedom looks like. Maybe this is the first time. Maybe this is the closest we have ever been to real freedom in our lives. And the people at the top are scared because none of their stupid stuff is working. And so they're like, we're going to go to war.

And maybe someone even talking about doing war. But maybe everything we know is about to crash and it's going to be glorious because the people don't have the authority to kick you out of your house. No cops come into your house when the dollar crashes and he doesn't have a pension. So you get your house for free. You get to live with your neighbor. You don't have to go and get your taxes ripped from you from somebody you don't know. Maybe this is the close as we've ever been to becoming a new form.

And maybe this is our opportunity to have a life worth living. Like maybe that's a better story because there's so much negativity out there. There's so much chaos. Like it just seems to me that like the fact that everyone's telling you you're going to die, means that there's people that have best interests that are scared and they want you to be scared. They want you to be reactionary. But if you're not paying attention to them, you're not like, yeah, I don't think that's going to happen, man. I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing.

You know, maybe that is what's happening. Yeah. I mean, this is, like you said, if you want a new structure, you have to destroy the old ones. So we are witnessing the collapse of, I don't want to call it civilization, but let's say the collapse of the old structures. Right. And it is an opportunity. We can build up something that's more empowering for everybody. But if we don't, then the other story might win.

And that story is a kind of style totalitarian information control and social credit model, which is what they're trying to do. You can see it and hiding it. So this is really the pivotal moment. But also, I'm thinking about this stuff, like we talked about it earlier, I'm paying attention to all these stories, all this gloom and doom and what's going on, opportunity. But it's such a contrast to what I'm saying.

seeing day to day. I'm looking around my day to day. Everyone's nice. The weather's good. I'm not seeing any famine. I'm just seeing a little of inflation, but I'm not seeing anything really drastic. So maybe if we maybe part of the creation of the story is we, that's where we put our focus. We don't maybe block out the news, don't engage emotionally with the stories that are being pushed on us and try to engage emotionally more with the people around us with our communities and what we see and try to actually build real community. And there are some really amazing people doing that all over the world. It's happening here in Bali. It's happening in places in Mexico. It's happening in Costa Rica, Colombia, all these groups of people that have gone, you know what, fuck all of this.

We're going to leave the system and we're going to just, whatever, buy some land and share food. Now, that may not be for everybody, but it is happening. There is that groundswell going on. and I hope that it picks up. I mean, I see nothing about positive things coming from that.