TrueLife - Kieve Huffman - Engage, Inspire, & Grow

Episode Date: January 20, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/www.engagerglobal.comhttps://www.plantentrepreneurial.com/homeAccelerate Your Cannabis BrandNavigate the intricate waters of the cannabis industry with our Cannabis Brand Accelerator Course, designed specifically to empower your brand with unmatched knowledge, strategies, and tools. One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry born from the blaze. The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Kodak Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. Hope everybody's having a beautiful day. Hope the sun is shining.

Hope the New Year's treating you well. Hope the bird is singing in the wind is at your back. I've got an incredible individual who doesn't, who doesn't, you might not see him out there a lot, but he's got some interesting ideas. And I think that everybody watching the show today is going to be surprised and thankful that they tuned in. We've got Keith Huffman, a highly accomplished branding expert with over 25 years of experience in building business and creating successful brand in the music, cannabis, and tech

industries. As the founder and CEO of Engager Global and advisory group, Keev specializes in helping cannabis and psychedelic businesses thrive and expand into new markets. With a deep understanding of the cannabis and music industries, Keith brings a unique and global approach to creating authentic and engaging lifestyle brands. As a co-founder and board member of heavy brands, a leading cannabis brand that seamlessly combines music and culture, he has demonstrated his ability to create innovative and captivating brand experience.

Keith, thanks for being here today, my friend. How are you? Thanks so much for having me on. I'm doing great. How are you? I'm doing great as well. I appreciate your time today. You have a really unique background, man. I was wondering maybe if you could kind of flesh it out a little bit. Like when I start talking about music and culture and cannabis, it's like it's almost like this triton of this trivium in a way.

Like they all kind of go together, man. How did you get all mixed up in this? So, yeah, it goes back to my college days, actually. I was working at a college radio station. I was always a huge music lover growing up. My mother was a musician. She played flute. And I learned music at a early age and just kind of fell into the whole music scene where I went to school and started promoting concerts and working at the college radio station.

And on the side, I was able to sort of supplement my college income. through, you know, I had a buddy that, you know, lived down in Arizona. You know, I went to school in Michigan. And we would get, you know, it's kind of funny when I think back on it, like these pink cans, full of, full of amazing, you know, this fair we from Arizona. And so for me, you know, look, cannabis and music and just culture, going back to those days has always kind of been a part of my life. And then when I started my career in New York City, I worked in the music industry there and worked with a lot of different, you know, really amazing different, you know, creatives.

And just seeing how those creatives use cannabis, you know, in a variety of different ways to either spark their creativity or, you know, use it as a medicine for a variety of different reasons. So it's interesting. Now kind of came full circle. I live in California, came out here to kind of work and do a bunch of things in the tech and media space, started a media company that was focused on the cannabis industry, and then started creating some of my own brands. And sure enough, most of my brands ended up being sort of music-centric music-focused brands. So, yeah, it's just kind of. of it just naturally for me it just always is part of that you know that that music tribe is you know

cannabis and in plant-based medicines in general have just always been a part of that I love it it's always intriguing to me to see like the life cycle of a business especially it's and especially in the plant medicine business it's almost like you can see the seed to the fruit in someone's ideas like You talk about in the beginning, you had these paint cans and you guys are figuring this stuff out. You're on this scene. And then all of a sudden, like, maybe that's the seed. And then all of a sudden you find yourself in cannabis, like, blooming a little bit. Like, it's a really unique way and I think a great metaphor to see our lives.

And I got to think that being involved in plant medicine helps you see that metaphor better and probably helps you brand things better. Maybe you can talk about the relationship between like cannabis, your relationship with cannabis and how it sees. sees you how you see yourself in culture i think there's got to be something in there well for me i've i've had a relationship with the plant you know it and it served me in a variety of different ways over the years um you know my relationship with it today is very different than it was when i first started you know it was started off being certainly much more of my more recreational like you know lifestyle and then it became once I started to learn all of the amazing benefits of it you know medicinal benefits and how certain you know strains or you know or delivery

methods and have served me in different ways for me I have always looked at you know in general for me when I did brands you know because that's that's one of the things I've always been involved in sort of the intellectual property side of things, whether it be in music, whether in Kansas. You know, I've always seen an opportunity to build, to build brands. So you're right. You know, if you look at a brand, you know, it's very much like a plant, right? You know, you've got to plan it. You know, you've got to put it in the ground.

But before you even put it in the ground, you got to know what it is you want to grow. Right. And I think that that's one thing that I find a lot of brands days. They kind of come out. They try to skip the steps, you know. They try to go where, you know, and I saw this at, you know, one of my first cannabis, you know, media companies. We had an in-house agency. And we had worked on over 60 different brand projects.

And so often people would come into us and say, hey, we need help with our brand. and we're looking great. Who's your target audience? And like already, like that already instantly, like, well, well, people smoke feed or everyone, or maybe, you know, they would have this conception of like connoisseurs. But the way you ever, if you're going to create a brand and it doesn't matter what industry you're talking about, if you don't start with who it is you're trying to delight super serve, of who is your tribe, who is your audience?

And if you don't plant that seed with them in mind, then you're already put yourself at a disadvantage because you're kind of going out and you're skipping all these steps by just going out with your own preconceived notion as to what you think that audience wants and what that brand should say to them. So there are a lot of analogies. You need to know what seed you're planning

and then you need to nurture that as for growing the brand and building it for the the you know planting the seeds having the roots take take hold and then as it as it as it as it you know each age of of of of it you know comes to fruition you're continuing to nurture it in a way so that you get those those nice you know and at the end of it or whatever it is you're growing you know whatever plant it is that flower um that it actually resonates and works for the end purpose, which, you know, in this case, as a brand, is you have a brand that actually means something, you know, and it's an authentic connection to your audience. That's really well said.

I love the idea, and I want to dig a little deeper on this idea of an authentic connection. On some level, do you think that when building it, we'll just say a cannabis brand, It's imperative to have lived experience in using cannabis in order to thoroughly understand how to market it. If you have a relationship with something, you have lived experience in it, then it makes sense that you will be able to have a unique way to market it because you have your own relationship with it. The same way you may have your own unique relationship with your partner, you know how that particular relationship can work. But when it comes to business, you're trying to share your unique relationship with this plant with a wider audience. Like maybe you could speak to that a little bit. Like I think you really have to know the thing that you're in relationship with if you want to share the beauty of it to other people.

Because you're really trying to get them to see different angles of it and things like that. Does that kind of make sense? It does. Look, I mean, I've seen some successful cannabis brands built by people that. for a variety of different reasons are not consumers. So I don't necessarily, I don't necessarily like fully adhere to the, you have to, you know, be a user. However, what I would adhere to is you have to have people on your team that do, right?

Like, because at the end of the day, there's just this, if you're going to build what you, you're right, this authentic connection, then it's, there's just things that you're going to inherently know authentically connect what makes sense what works what doesn't work you know if you're going to speak to that audience and in a cannabis audience then yes you need if it's not you it needs to be you know the people on your team that um fully just kind of feel in their bones right that that you know kind of what what works and what doesn't work and look at the end of the day i think what you know

we're trying to get at here, George is like, look, at the end of the day, consumers, they see through the bullshit, right? Like, you know, when we talk about authenticity, you know, hey, it's a reason why a lot of celebrity brands, you know, for instance, don't work, right? Because just slapping a celebrity's name on a package and maybe having them do a photo shoot, you know, people get right through that, you know. Like, I've saw, like, I'll never forget, like, I was at, at MJ BizCon, this must have been four or five years ago.

And there was a brand who I will not name who trotted out Gene Simmons from KISS as their spokesperson. Right. Well, anyone who knows Gene Simmons, he's like, he was kind of like an anti-drug guy. Like he was like a hardcore. He did not consume, right? It's like, like either these people didn't do their homework on this guy or whatever. but like obviously that brand did work right like that connection because it's like if there is not a meaningful like connection between who that celebrity is or who that person is directly to the audience

then you know like it's all you have right now is your reputation right it's all you have if If you're going to build any brand in any industry and anything, if you are not true to your audience, you're not speaking their language, you're not living in their world. It's just not going to work. Yeah, it's well said. It's,

you know, another area that I, that I'm fascinated by with cannabis too is this, I think it's a fine line between like, inspiration and enhancement. And I think that those kind of walk hand in hand in some ways. I think that you can be inspired by cannabis use, but you can also have an enhanced sort of thinking process from it. Maybe that's a strain. Maybe that has to do with your body chemistry. I don't thoroughly have it figured out with the cannabinoid system and all that stuff.

But it seems to me that not enough people are talking about cannabis as a mind enhancement sort of a tool. What do you think about that? Well, I mean, look, I've been in plenty of creative places I've had tons of, you know, I wish, I wish I was more creative. I grew up. I learned how to use. There's a reason why I became a business person and a branding person and was not a musician and was not an artist. But I relate to creatives. I've grown up and I've worked with creatives my entire life. And I find that, you know, certainly. the creatives that I've worked with have stronger relationships with the plants than many many others like for instance at my at one of my last companies I we had a media company we had close to 80 employees that are at our peak and we weren't one of those I mean obviously we were a cannabis media company so we didn't have like oh you know you can't smoke on the job or consuming the job. However, we did require that you actually perform on the job. So what we found

in general, and I'm honestly the same way. Like for me, like if I'm going to, if I'm going to consume, it's generally after hours because I find that it takes my brain into a more creative space. However, the people that I encouraged to consume were creatives, our art team, our creative, and they thrived in that, right? And because it was an enhancer for them, right? It inspired ideas. It allowed them to get more creative. And it also took off, I think, for a lot of creatives.

It kind of like helps them to think outside of the box. right you're not necessarily if you're not necessarily confined into a very defined space now when I'm doing spreadsheets and working on numbers like I have to be in those defined spaces and if I if I consume like I'm I'm not very effective but yes so I I have always seen it whether you know kind of going back to my music days you know a lot of the most creative moments that I witnessed in the studio where, you know, certainly right after a session, you know, where people were, you know, had come off and like, all right, let's go out jam. And it's like, okay, whereas they may have been reaching some challenges about kind of where to go next with a piece

of music, you know, a lot of times it was after those sessions that something kind of unlocked, right? Or it just it's flowed out of that. And I think, you know, speaking of flow, that's a word where this flow state, right, that people and athletes and artists and creatives get into, I think cannabis helps people a lot of people get into that state, you know, much more easily. It's so amazing that you bring up flow state. And I got a, I'm piloting this new thing called a Soul Compass by Susan Brown's company. And it measures your flow state. and one of their biggest targets for pilots are musicians, because musicians find themselves in that flow state all the time.

And I think that there's something there. And I think cannabis and maybe plant medicines does play a role in getting into that flow state, whether you call it a flow state, a creative moment, thinking outside the box. There's something about cannabis and plant medicine that allows us to see reality in a way that is different. And sometimes that difference can show itself in a majority. traditional fashion where people with PTSD can use it and get away from a problem. Some people can use it to be more creative. But what do you think is that relationship between like what is it for you? Like when you have you spoke by having a session and coming off that session having these different

thoughts in your mind, or just in your opinion, what is happening? Are you seeing yourself from like a third person point of view or is there a way in which you can explain the different mindset you have when you're in the flow state or when you're in that relationship with cannabis? Well, I think it depends on the situation, you know, a lot of, at least for my personal experiences, a lot of environment has a lot to do with what the experience is as much as anything, right? It's like if you're just by yourself, your experience is very different than if you're a room where you're building off what everyone else is, you know, kind of flow, you know, and you, that strength in numbers, right? Where it's like you start to kind of get more of, more of an energy that, you know,

combined is way more powerful than you're able to have on your own. And I personally prefer that type of an experience because, but I find is sometimes when I'm just alone, sometimes you just kind of get caught up in your own head, right? And in the cannabis, sometimes it's beneficial. Sometimes it is, you know, because sometimes it's taking you, your brain's taking you a place that maybe isn't as, as where you, you are going to bet your most creative. So for me personally, you know, again, and I think the thing about all plant, plant based, you know, medicines is that some of it is because we haven't, we don't have a ton of research on it still. You know, we don't really know that everybody's experience is very different, you know. And so, you know, I don't think there's really that sort of one-size-fits-all personally.

I can say I've never had sort of a third-person type of experience through cannabis. Have had that experience through other plant medicines, for sure, but not cannabis, for say. So, you know, look, I think it just comes down to everybody has to find that kind of find that place that works for them, right? And kind of cannabis is, I like to look at it as like, look, if it's not serving you a way that enhancing you, then you're better off not. You know, because look, I know plenty of people that cannabis is more anxious, you know, it kind of, it's not, you know, it's not a one size fits all, right? And it's, it's, it's, it's type of solution. However, I also do know, you know, I love coming back to the music because for me, like, I'm just a music person, but some of the most seminal, like music works of all time were created. with the enhancements of cannabis or other plant-based medicines, you know? And it's like, like, we wouldn't have those works of art without it, you know? And honestly, back in time.

Like, if you go back and you look at the history of civilizations and you see, they're starting to discover now more and more where they found, you know, use cases of where, you know, there is evidence that plant-based medicines were used in civilizations, right? And you know that it's the healers and it's the musicians. It's the creatives that have been using this since the beginning of mankind since they've discovered what the benefits of these are.

And so, yeah, I'm... I don't even remember now, George, exactly what your first question was, original question was. in my roundabout way shed some light on it. Yeah, not only did you shed some light on it, but I think you've perked some other questions that I have percolating in my mind.

And that is this idea, you know, when we look at ceremony and healing, it's often accompanied by music. And most people can understand the healing power of music. And that is just a stepping stone. And in some way, it's the ceremony, it's the healing power of plants, and it's the music that can lead to an incredible brand,

because a brand is symbolic of a time. And if you have music, like da-da-da-da-da-da-da-bye menon, or da-da-da-da-da-da-a-loving it. Like there's always this little bit of music that comes with the word that synthesizes together, that leaves a symbol in your mind to remember that brand. And I don't love the way some large corporations hijack at and put this crappy thing in your head that you have to remember forever, you know.

But I'm not saying it's not effective. It's really effective. And what I want to talk about is the reason why it's so effective. And I think cannabis, plant medicine, music, and healing are three things that implant in us and make us remember things. It's almost ceremonial. And I'm wondering if you could speak to the idea of branding and why it works. Why are these things together work in a way and they leave a residence. They leave a residue when people's minds maybe you can talk about branding and and those things that come with it yeah well look we're we know we have five cents right and and each of those senses when they're triggered they trigger a memory right so it's like you know that certain certain songs like elicit and emotion from you

that is very personal right because if there's a song that remind you you of something, you know, either an amazing time or a tragic experience or what it may be, it's amazing how that hearing that song again will instantly take you back to that to that moment, right? It's just, and look, it's similar to smells too, like can do the same thing, right? And all different kinds of your five senses. But I think in particular, auditory that music certainly, at least for me is extremely strong.

It's why I was drawn to get into music to begin with, right? Because for me, it's just like I am drawn to the auditory sense, right? I love, I love music. I love experiencing new kinds of music and new sounds. I'm a bit more experimental than most, just because I'm constantly am looking for new kinds of sounds. and so for me as it relates into building brands um you know i the reason why i built the cannabis brands that i built around music is because to me uh people that listen to certain kinds

of music in particular it's it's a very tribal experience at the end of the day right it's like these are my people like so our first brand was a brand called heaviest and it was a a a brand focus on the hard rock heavy metal audience because that audience is so like devoted to their music and their scene right it's like like they wear their they wear their uh their music piece out they you know they are very open about it you go to a hard rock heavy metal a festival or concert and that you know spirit there is is is just it's thriving you know and it's and I also will say there's

all cannabis at those events you know like you know I haven't been to a heavy metal concert where there weren't wafs of smoke you know kind of going up and out there but you know look every every tribe is looking for

their is like their their goch brand right and so each of these people their brands in some instances is the band right but what we found is that this the heavy metal tribe didn't have a cannabis brand right like there wasn't like this is my weed brand you know and so whenever we would show up at these possible events

with the big weed leaf the lines would be around the corner because people were like what is going on here and like and it was incredible because people would come up and like oh my god I've been waiting my whole life for this there's a weed brand that actually that actually speaks to me like this is amazing and so like that's the whole thing it's like that's when you know you've nailed something right is when you get that kind of a response from someone right where they're literally coming up and saying you i've been waiting for you right and you're okay we're on to something here and so i i believe that you know if if you're trying to build a brand the right way that that all of the different elements I need to be in place. And for me, it's like whether it's like

you're focused just on a music audience, like for me, that was just a natural because I worked in music. I've worked in cannabis. It's like that intersection was just a natural one for me. But I do think like even if you're not going after an explicit music focused audience, how you use music as part of your overall sort of brand building campaign is something I think is pretty underutilized. People in general, when they're building the brands, aren't really thinking about, again, just like what we started talking about,

how music triggers them to think about your brand, right? And if you are able to connect all those dots in a way that it holistically kind of comes together and works together, then you've got, a winner there, right? Because then it's like, oh, they hear this either style of music or this song that remember, it was like, oh, yeah, it was me to go to dispensary, you know, I know that I need like, oh, yeah, I need some more of my medicine. So you just never know what it's going to trigger.

But to me, it all kind of, it all works, when you do it the right way, it all works together seamlessly. Pearls, my friend, there's a pearls in there. Thank you for that. It's, it brings up the idea of contagion when building a brand you wanted to be contagious how do you build contagion into brands let me just give you an easy question here well look i mean i think contagion it's interesting i hadn't actually you know thought about it in that way before but it's it's really look Contagion, virality. Are you building a, are you building a painkiller or?

Maybe. Yeah. You know, it's, there's all these different ways to look at it, but it's, it's at the end of the day. It kind of goes back to what I talked about earlier, which is you've got to look at who your audience is and then work backwards from there. because whatever it is that you're presenting to them, you know, whether it's your product,

the product itself, right? Does, you know, what I see in cannabis a lot is that, and this is what kind of going back to where I was talking about, we learned a lot when I, when I had my agency, is when people came in as I need help with my brand,

well, they had already, they came in with fully realized products, right? And then they needed a logo to put on the box that they, it on shelves, right? Like that's what they thought a brand was. Well, really, if you were truly creating a brand the right way, what you would have done is before you created your products, you would have said, who is my target audience and what products make sense for that audience? How can I build the best version of that product for that audience? Then what is the brand story

that I need to kind of build around that so that this resonates with this audience? And how do I make my target audience the hero of that story right and then when you're when you're starting to build it up layer by layer like this then you're building in your natural like contagion and virality because you're building this in such a way that if you do this correctly then you're becoming an integral part of that of that person's life right where like they can't live without you right Because if you've done this and you've built this in foundationally into a way that they're like, I can't imagine their life without this brand. That's when you know you've nailed it and you've got the contagion.

But it's got to be built into the DNA, built into the roots, whatever analogy you want to use. It has to be there from the start. It has to be part of the foundation. because if it's not, you can't just slap it on later on and think it's going to work the same way. Maybe you'll get lucky and you'll strike lightning in a bottle. But for the most part, the brands that I've seen have true success are the ones that built it for an audience from the start. And they didn't stray from that, right? And they didn't like try to, you know, that's the other thing, too,

is too many, too many brands try to, they try to speak to everyone, you know, or they try to like be all things to all people. And that to me is a, is a recipe for disaster because it's like, you need to speak to your one core target audience and super serve them and become a part of everyday life. And once you've done that, then what the way that you expand. out is then you start to hit that ask you become of that that more like the halo effect of like oh i think these this guy's really cool and he's you know right this is his brand so maybe that should be

my brand too right you start to tap into that aspirational element of things but you won't be able to do that if you don't take take care of the core first right if you don't hit that target audience you become a part of them because in the end of the day when it comes to evangelizing your brand right marketing your brand there's no better sort of that than then your consumers themselves right it's like you know you that's and that's when you know that you've you've truly become because you've you've you know getting back to your contagion you know you've hooked them in whatever that virus is or the contagion, they want to spread it, right? And then that's when you've got something really powerful.

Yeah, I love it. It reminds me of, like, the story of airwalk, and I'm probably showing my age here, you know, but when I was coming up as a kid, you could buy really sick airwalk shoes, but you could only get them at surf shops or skate shops. And they were super hot for, like, a long time. And then all of a sudden they started selling to, like, Macy's and Nord.

They started selling to, like, Sears. They started just, they just said, you know what, we're cashing in everybody everybody can buy them now and as soon as they did that like they lost the cool factor and the people that were their core were like we're done you know but it's i think it speaks to that idea what you were talking about like you've built your core you have this incredible engine that's driving your idea for and they're all part of it they're all in man and then you give it away well look i mean everyone's got their reasons you know it's called this the sellout right you know Hey, you know what? There's a price on that thing, right? You know, I would never like, I would never, you know, be grudge any, any, any, any company or brand owner that, you know, just stock the time is right or whatever their own personal family reasons. Right.

But they do lose, you do lose it. Right. Once you, once you do kind of quote unquote sell out, you're not getting that back, right? It's like, because once you've lost, they're already on to the next sort of authentic and a cool thing that. it's tough. I mean, I've, you know, I've seen a lot of, and I'm a big believer in intellectual property, but, you know, I've seen a lot of, I've seen a lot of companies come in and buy IP rights for companies thinking that they can revitalize that brand. And they have a real tough time. Because once a brand is kind of taken a downturn, it's, in some ways, it may even be harder than starting with a completely new brand, right? Because you have all the, you have all the, you have all. the baggage right you have everything that's kind of like you have to overcome there's a reason why this is falling off so now you have to build this thing back up in a way that you know brings it back and people like aren't think well but they already the name's known right and so that's the hard thing is i want people just to know the name yeah but if the name's known for the wrong reasons then you're kind of setting yourself up for a tough a tough road to oh man it's like that's uh I personally, you know, would rather start fresh than try to take a kind of an old dead brand and, and revitalize it.

Is there some similarities and differences between, say, like, an artist or like a band that's their own brand versus a product that's their own band? Like, it seems like they both have different ups and downs and they can come back and they can get burned and they can be hot. Are there some similarities and some differences? And if so, what might those be? There are definitely lots of similarities. I mean, I do look at, you know, one of the ways that's putting together my portfolio of brands is because I came from the music industry, I looked at almost like building my roster, right? With my bands, you know, my brands. And so I do think, look, a band or an artist represents something.

They are a brand. Now, there are very important differences. though because at the end of the day those artists are and so it's a lot easier for an artist to reinvent themselves and to come across is authentic than it is for a kind of a brand to do that because the brand it's uh it's not a person it's not a personality it's not someone like people can sense like if if one of my favorite one of my favorite music artists of all time is David Bowie you know when he reinvented himself consistently and it always worked right because it was truly him right he it was authentically being himself at that moment right of like this is who

my artistic self is today and you love it or hate it you have to you have to admire it entertain for you know and he is his commercial success ebbed and flowed over the years but he was always true to him himself. And so I think an artist can kind of overcome having some like, you know, oh, well, that artist fell off. Well, there's a lot of stories where there's the comeback album, right? Where the artists, I think it's a lot easier for an artist to do a comeback album than it is for a brand to have a comeback album.

It's a great point. Another one of my, another one of the fascinating brand stories you hear is in Steve Jobs' book, his biography by Walter Isaacson. And Walter Isaacson asks him, you know, can you tell me, Steve, about the, the ebb and flow of businesses and why so many businesses, so many brands that are on top of the world, they end up just, they just die later in life. And he had a really cool answer. You're probably aware of it. But the answer is, in the beginning, a brand or a company has like a founder. And they have a, a lot of the times something has a, they have a visionary that everybody believes in.

And this person is larger than life. and they get people to believe in this idea. But then all of a sudden, the marketing team begins to move the needle more than the visionary. And when that begins to happen, and the company's public, all of a sudden, the marketing team becomes the people that move the needle. So they get moved up to the different positions of authority and influence and the visionary sometimes gets pushed back out. Is that something that you agree with that you see happening in a lot of the corporations today or in branding in general? Absolutely. I just saw a great, a really fascinating documentary on Jewel on Netflix, man.

I highly recommend it. Yeah. Because, you know, that founding team, they had really the best of intentions, you know, to create a safer way for people to consume tobacco, right? They really, that was their vision and that's what they wanted to do. Well, then when they took in a bunch of, took in a bunch of VC money, you know, because they were, they were, you know, Stanford ads and they kind of were in that Silicon Valley scene. There was the pressure to kind of turn this into a product that, you know, we're going to have a bit, you know, that was going to kind of come out of the gate like, you know, gangbusters. So they hired some marketing people that created this, this marketing campaign.

that was very much about how Jule was for the cool kids. And it was, and basically it was a campaign that, that went directly and resonated directly with children, you know, and underage. And so that's kind of where that whole Jewel sort of epidemic kind of started because like the marketing was so successful that all these kids were like,

oh my God, there's a, there's a way that I can just like even smoke in class, you know, and all this thing and it's the kids know it and when you kind of drop in jewel like you know it's like you're you're kind of speaking the secret language well it got so far away right because the founder that company when it was just them driving it they were able to bring in some amazing talent they have this they built this vision of this team and you know these guys didn't even have a chance because

they made a huge misstep out the gate so anyway i i do believe in and everything that that that Steve Jobs was alluding to there because look you see it all the time now right it's always challenging challenging though because you know like depending on who that founder is you know they they can become polarizing sometimes you know I think you're starting to see this now with someone like Elon Musk right where um when he was the visionary behind Tesla and SpaceX X and his different companies, it was a powerful driver for those companies, right? His personal brand was a powerful driver. Well, when he took over X and really started to be very vocal, you know, on that,

he, it started to kind of have an impact negatively some of those, you know, you know, companies, brands, right? because not everyone necessarily agrees with all of his viewpoint on X and all of his the ways that he's kind of used that platform variety of different things and it's it's really fascinating to me because like what you love him hate him he's uh he's like he's built some incredible businesses right and i think that it's um it's just interesting because at what point do um you know and Steve jobs was like he's look he was a unicorn right let's face it like that guy like everyone's like oh i'm

going to be the steve jobs of this like man steve jobs was like a one of a kind like that guy we were fortunate to have got him in in um you know in our generation or in our you know in our lifetimes to have had inexperience him because i worked in the music industry this is the quick kind of side note like you know he he revolutionized the music industry right because at that time like i took a digital business at at bmg right at the time when i took it over was under a million in revenue as a digital business because there were no real meaningful business models at the time the only music digital music services were actually run by the music companies and they weren't successful and steve job basically came in and he said look people don't want to be forced to buy albums because

At that time, you still had to buy the bundle. You had to buy music digitally. You had to buy it. Look, people don't want to buy that way. They want to buy it. They want to buy the songs they want. That's all they want. And you have to unbundle.

And that was a big battle. And he's like, and he won that battle and, you know, changed the way that music served. And it was, you know, the whole music industry worked. And it was, fortunately, it didn't go so well for the music industry because they didn't actually, you know, part of the reason I left is that it, they didn't listen to the consumers. Like, like, they didn't provide, you know, for me, it was like, oh, my God, look at all this.

You looked at what was happening with like a master and things like that, right? It's like, look at all this pent up to man that's not being fulfilled. And, you know, we've got the opportunity for, and stuff saw that, right? Right. So anyway, getting back to the original point, yes, I agree hardly that the further away that these companies get from a lot of the founding teams or the founders, then the harder it is to continue to be a meaningful brand, you know. So, yeah, it's a fascinating subject, Dan. It's because it can go in so many directions. I love it. And it's so interesting.

On some level, like, once you get that big, you just don't have, the only way to grow is to buy other people that have what you had. You know, and in some ways, you can, the same way that a guy in his 60s wants to be together with a grill in his 20s, so too does a big brand want to buy the younger brand because they still want to have like that. They still want to feel cool, man. They still want to feel like they're needed. They still want to feel like, look, I still got it. No, you don't, man. You don't got it anymore. But go gracefully, you know, find a way to tell your story or something else like that.

You know what I'm kind of excited. Like I see right now the same way that, you know, Apple came out with its 1984 commercial and disrupted IBM. It's so beautiful to see these young bucks on the scene right now getting ready to, in my opinion, disrupt some of the platforms. Like I think I think Google, I think Amazon, I think even Apple. I think some of these platforms, like they've just lost the ability. They don't know. They have so much. They don't know what to do.

You know, and you see these young ideas coming up with like, you know, hey, maybe we could build a better network where everybody gets a percentage of the sale. And all of a sudden, these new ideas are beginning to percolate a little bit. And I don't know. I have a fondness for the big brands. Like, I'm so stoked on what they did for us. Like, I don't want people to forget that. Like, they change the way we kind of were able to do commerce.

And that's a beautiful thing. But it's just interesting to see the cycle kind of moving forward and to be it in Adrian, like, I remember when this happened or I remember when this happened. You know, it's, what are some things that you're excited about for branding at this point in time? For me, I am starting to get a lot more involved in some AI initiatives. So, I mean, I know that's kind of a generic thing. But for me, in general, so I've spent a lot of time in last. in America. I'm a believer in being a global citizen in bringing in helping to support and educate

people all over the world. So I've I launched a an education platform for business leaders in the cannabis industry and I did it personally in both English and in Spanish. And it's interesting. So it took me an hour and a half to do the to do the English version of my first course and took me six and a half hours to do in Spanish because my Spanish I'm like kind of intermediate high intermediate level but not completely fun and so my business partners I'm working with the one of the largest education platforms in in Latin America they're like well we're still going to put subtitles on this and I was so bummed I'm like no man I want I don't want people to be distracted by subtitles so I took a class to a former business partner

of mine who had an AI company. I was like, can you see what you can do with this? And he came back something that just blew me away. And it actually spawned a whole new business. It's called Language Hub. Languagehub.aI. We've launched this business where basically any talking head content, we can use your voice, we can sink your lips and your body gesture

and have you speak in just about any language. And so I'm now launching all all of my educational platform in multiple languages using this AI technology, which is incredible, because to me it helps bring the world, make the world a smaller place, right? It allows my reach to get out there. So, for example, George, we could take all of your content and we could create it into, you know, we could do different versions, we can do French versions, do Spanish versions, and you can exponentially your audience, you know, through this, through this technology.

So for me, I think there's just some amazing ways to kind of use AI to increase brands reach. So for me, I look at AI as an accelerator for brands, you know, and ways for brands, personal brands or brands of start to take their content and kind of go global. Because I'm a very big believer in creating global brands. And so for me, the only way that you can do that is you have to be, you know, you can have a global vision, but you have to be local in your approach. And you can't be local in your approach if you're not communicating in the local language. And so now AI allows you to do that. And so that's a, so to me, that's what I'm excited about, you know, it's not so much that it's a brand per se, but it's a way to kind of use these new. technologies in ways for whatever brand you do have to reach a larger audience in a way that,

again, it's authentic because you're able to kind of communicate with them in their language. So that's something I'm excited about right now. Man, that makes me excited about it. That's a freaking cool idea, man. I'm going to totally hit you up because I would love to do that with some of my content. It brings it this other idea I'm thinking about too is that, you know, we spoke a little bit about like the exclusivity coolness. Like we talked about Airwalk and Apple has its own exclusivity for a while.

It sounds like what you're talking about with AI. It's flipping that on its head. Hey, we're going to make it awesome for everybody. Like, you know, that's a really cool way to change the world. It's like, hey, it's not just about this small group being cool. We're going to make it cool for everybody. I kind of get goosebumps when I think about that. That's awesome.

Well, at minimum, it allows you to reach, it allows you to reach that same tribe in every country, right? Okay. way better said way better said and and you know it's not necessarily you know because look at the end of the day you know if you're going to have it's that gets back to that authenticity question it's like if you know like let's let's talk about the music example of of the heavy grass is is one of my brands that's focused on the rock head hell audience well that audience is there's no geographic borders right for for that audience right it's not like oh just be

because you live in Brazil, you know, that you wouldn't be a fan of this, you know, cannabis brand that's focused on your audience. But right now, because of the regulatory infrastructure of ways that you can, you know, kind of have any sort of international commerce, it's impossible for me to send my cannabis brands to really to Brazil today. However, there's ways that you can launch cannabis brands in any country, even if you're just launching with the lifestyle brand to start with, right? So you're starting with maybe it's just apparel and merch and accessories, maybe it's CBD products, whatever it may be.

You know, that same hard rock, heavy metal audience is in Brazil. They're in Argentina. They're in Colombia. They're in all these different places. They're in Europe. And so now, you know, that's always been my approach, is that I want to build brands that have a global audience. And I want to figure out ways to reach that audience using whatever tools are able to.

Right now, AI is a pretty interesting and cool tool to use to reach those audiences. Yeah. Man, it's trailblazing in some ways. And I'm so excited to see people embrace it and use it as an accelerator. Because in some ways, it's so liberating. It really allows good ideas to win. And it's like giving someone their own think tank in a way, you know, depending on which what you're using or who you're teaming up with.

But it really excites me for the future to see the way in which AI is helping us learn how to communicate, not only our ideas, but meaning. It seems to me like it's really helping us understand what's meaningful in life. But is that too much to say or what do you think about that? No, I agree. I mean, look, and I think, but it cuts both ways too, right? There's unfortunately, you know, nefarious, you know, you know, individuals out there that are going to use these things, you know, the wrong reasons, you know? Like I'm, I'm all about bringing people together, right? That's just my, that's just kind of who I am. I've always been like a uniter. I've built in communities. and and you know to me I have you know always have the best of intentions you know but you know

the fact that you can use AI you know just speaking about the language side of it you know you know the and I and I you know it kind of it kind of it scares the hell out of me honestly like what's going to happen in this next election cycle because the way that you can use the deep fakes, right? Right. To kind of have people like, how do you tell the difference, right? Like whether or not that person actually said it or not, you know? And so it's a little bit scary, too. I choose to look at the positive. You know, I choose to embrace. I choose to, I choose to bring positivity to the world. But it's just kind of the only way I know to kind of approach. approach technology. So I've never been afraid. I've always been one of those

when you talk about trailblazers. I unfortunately I'm typically too early on most things because I because I'm like I know one of those people that always you know kind of sees things before there's an actual market for it or you know or consumer adoption for things but it's it's what interests me and it's the ways like to kind of help sometimes yeah it's a little it's a little challenging sometimes to one of the pioneers where you're taking all the arrows right you know the trailblazers you know took the arrows yeah and but but you know look it's also the way that we're we're able to kind of help to to kind of show what's possible right and and kind of start to you know because because a lot of times

as i'm seeing you know it happens with a lot of brands uh in general a lot of times the most successful brands weren't the first, you know, they were the ones that kind of, kind of were able to see, okay, well, these guys kind of tried to do this and they weren't successful, but maybe the timing just weren't right, or they tried, maybe this approach wasn't quite right for this. And then they came in and kind of took it to the next level. And I think that's part of an iterative process of creativity, right? It's like music, what are you talking about? music music music is always built on what before right and like people are saying oh well that's stealing what you know look no like what truly original thought are there out there right like what truly

original like music is out there what truly original brands are there out there they're all just creations built upon what's already existing and kind of taking it to and add your own little special sauce to it and secret sauce that kind of helps give it its unique qualities and help takes it to the next level. Yeah. There's a lot in there, man. Like I, you know, being really early looks a lot like being really wrong. You know, like I've been there a few times.

I've been like so dumb. Then a year later, being like, Jesus Christ, that was a genius. You know? It just being so ashamed. But you can't control that. Like, you should be blessed and thankful that you have. the time and that you were really, you were earlier. I love the slings from the Trailblazer.

Another one is the first one over the wall is probably going to get clobbered, you know. But I love all those metaphors, because I felt like I've been the first one over the wall a few times. Another point that you just spoke to that's kind of near and dear to my heart is this idea of being able to build on other people's successes. You know, like imagine if the guitar was patent and no one could use it. Like, that would be horrible, you know?

And for so long, like I think that on some level, we're too tight with ideas. Like there should be some sort of remediation. There's be some sort of, you know, changes in laws for intellectual property. On some level, I think people that make stuff, they definitely deserve it. But you should be able to build on some things on some level. Like maybe after 20 years or there's got to be some kind of change in there. Because I think that stifles innovation in a lot of ways. Would you agree with that?

Well, I mean, you're kind of speaking to the whole, you know, there was a whole movement that started back with a lot of companies, Mozilla, you know, kind of first and foremost, this whole like for, for a in open source, right? Right. Where it's like there's no owner of this. And it's kind of the way a lot of the, a lot of platforms, the blockchain, you know, it's kind of becomes like, you know, there's no centralized owner of, of, of the, you know, there's no centralized owner. of a lot of these different technologies and a lot of these things are, here's the open source way to kind of tap into this. So I'm definitely a believer that there's definitely, that's definitely beneficial overall.

I do think look, the intellectual property is, it's a challenging one for me because, you know, having been involved in music and having represented artists over the year, you know, look, I think if you created a piece of art and a music work, you should be able to control what that's used for. So I do think that there is some, you know, because look, there's a reason I, right, if like if I don't want my music to be used for that to promote whatever it is,

that product or that audition or that movement or whatever it is, then you should be able to fit to your work then you should be able to to control that so it's a little bit of a of a back and forth so what you're starting to see like I don't know if you saw this recently but for the first time Mickey Mouse went into public domain it's just Steamboat Willie it's just the original original it's not and you know literally like the next day there was like a slasher horror film that came out with the guy using the Steamboat Willie like you know mask as the uh um as the as the as the as the slasher you know and so it's it's it's it's interesting because i i think as a as a creative executive i think it's important that we we we have the ability to continue to build on what's already there um but also as someone who's worked directly with creatives I see the importance of being able to have some level of control as to how your creative work is used. I don't have, I'm not smart enough guy to know where the answer is. You know, I think the statute of limitations is ones like, look, after a certain period of time,

you're not talking about the artist anymore. You're talking about the artists like grandchildren, right? Right. who are now controlling this so at what point should things go into public domain and you know i do think there is a point where it where it does make sense for that you know i love the fact that i can get certain books for free right because they're public domain and so at what point is an idea you know not fully controlled by that origin the originator of that idea anymore. And I think that's probably a whole other, you know, we can have a whole podcast

session probably on a particular subject because it can get pretty deep. We could. Keith, this is awesome. And I love talking to people and just getting to dig into their minds a little bit and see what makes them tick. And it's always so rewarding to me to get to meet new people and find an affinity with them and like learn new things, man. And I feel like this conversation did that. I'm really stoked to meet you and get to have this conversation. I hope we can have more of them. And maybe we can bring more people into the tent and make our voices even louder together in the future, man. But before I let you go, where can people find you?

What do you got coming up and what are you excited about? Yeah, thanks for asking. So I have been spending a lot of time on LinkedIn. It has been really my platform. And I post there really and I respond to my DMs there. So if you just kind of look for, you know, Keith Huffman on LinkedIn, that's the best way to find out more about it. and to contact me and what I'm excited about so I mentioned language hub that's something I'm definitely very excited about yeah and then I'd say also I'm I'm very excited about

what's what's going to have next in the cannabis industry because I've been involved in that industry now for almost 10 years and I it's been it's been it's been it's been sort of artificially held back for so long because of just, you know, these ridiculous, you know, laws and regulations that were put in for, you know, all the wrong reasons, you know, based on, you know, just, you know, lied, you know, at the end of the day, you know, to protect, you know, existing industries that, you know, that, you know, hemp, the plant, you know, and cannabis medicine, got in the way of, you know, and we're, you know, and we're, you know, in so, that evil you know the whole like you know going back to the whole like you know journalism days of

william randall first and all those different you know different things i feel like we're at this point this inflect the point where things are ready to turn the people want it 70% of americans want legal cannabis our politicians have not been listening to but i feel like this is a year where we could finally get that tipping point so that's the other thing that i'm excited about because I feel like cannabis is finally ready to kind of have its moment where it's going to be really readily accessible to the people that it would be. And I'm looking for 2024 to be that year. Yeah.

I'm hopeful to see an explosion in creativity and music the same way that we got these incredible bands out of the 60s. I'm hopeful that the legalization and the normalization of cannabis and plant medicines will spur upon this new creativity flow of music and festivals and creativity that just launches into the world. And I know you're, I know you've got to go, but Clint Kyle's is saying great conversation, fellas. Clint Kyle's, great podcaster. And I don't know if you know this Clint, but Keev is for 2024, he wants to get out there and be on more podcasts, you know. So reach out to him, Clint.

He's an awesome guy. And to everybody listening, thank you so much for hanging out with us today. An incredible show, incredible guest. Keep on briefly afterwards. I'll speak to you. But to everybody today, I really appreciate your time. Everyone, have a beautiful day. Aloha.

Peace out.