TrueLife - Kyle Rosner - The Feral Gospel

Episode Date: April 27, 2025

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Kyle RosnerIn an era of scripted sameness and corporate noise, one voice refuses to conform.Kyle Rosner is a media insurgent — a producer, writer, and creative tactician who doesn’t wait for permission, doesn’t play it safe, and sure as hell doesn’t follow the formula.From film to radio, TV to podcasts, he’s been behind the boards, behind the lens, and behind the words — crafting stories that hit hard and leave a mark. His content is sharp, funny, thought-provoking — always tailored, never tamed.He’s the guy brands call when they need voice, not volume.The strategist who finds magic in the mess.The creator who thrives under pressure and still finds time to punch up the truth.If the mainstream is a current, Kyle swims upstream — armed with vision, grit, and a knack for making something out of nothing.He’s not just producing media — he’s rewriting the rules.This isn’t a career.It’s a rebellion.And today, we’re tuning in.http://linkedin.com/in/kyle-rosner-6989a385https://filmfreeway.com/KyleRosnerReality Sandwich | Evolving Consciousness Bite by Bite One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. Hope the sun is shining. Hope the birds are singing. Hope the wind is at your back.

Woo, I got a banger for you guys today. Let me just throw this out here like this. In an era of scripted sameness and corporate noise, one voice refuses to conform. Kyle Rosner is a media insurgent, a producer, a writer, a creative tactician. He doesn't wait for permission. Doesn't play it safe and sure as hell doesn't follow the formula.

From film to radio, TV to podcast, he's been behind the boards, behind the lens, and behind the words, crafting stories that hit hard and leave a mark. His content is sharp, funny, thought-provoking, always tailored, never tamed. He's the guy Brands call when they need voice, not volume, the strategist who finds magic in the mess, the creator who thrives under pressure and still finds time to punch up the truth in the main...

If the mainstream is a current, Kyle swims upstream, armed with vision, grit, and knack for making something out of nothing. He's not just producing media. He's rewriting the rules. Kyle, thank you so much for being here today. reality sandwich. I'm so stoked to talk to you, my friend. How are you? I'm doing wonderful. Thank you so much for the kind words and intro there. Definitely blew my mind. Nice for somebody to some of my activities and work like that. Yeah, well, I'm excited to be here for lots of reasons. First off,

shout out to Southern California, man. You guys had the big Warriors side project down there. You know, uh, shout out to Oceanside, Carlsbad, Vista. I know cats down in Vista. There's so many cool people in that community down there that I think are really sort of bringing a large part of the psychedelic community to the world, man. Thanks for doing that. Yeah, super grateful to live in San Diego area. Definitely big, you know, biotech pharma hub definitely attracts a lot of free thinkers, a lot of cool people working on awesome cool projects, a lot of awesome food entrepreneurs and obviously a lot of people into and embedded in the psychedelic community here as well. Yeah, man. Let's jump into this reality sandwich, man. You got a really cool platform out there. And it's really starting

to put out a lot of, you know, voices and free thinkers. And like, I love the, I love the fact that you're not afraid to push boundaries and put out some dissenting voices that are, that have a lot to say, man. Tell me a little bit about reality sandwich. Yeah, super grateful, along with myself, you know, it's not just me. Have a few business partners and our wonderful editorial team. Reality Sandwich is actually a 20 year old community founded about over 20 years ago on the East Coast. in New York by Ken Jordan, Daniel Pinchbeck, and a few other of the original psychedelic thought leaders and people in the space. My team and I were lucky to become its current caretakers about six years ago. The site had definitely fallen by the wayside. The community was kind of

scattering to the wind, so we were lucky enough to be able to acquire the community and rebuild it back up to where it is today. And we threw an awesome event 2021 called Meat Delic out. in Vegas. We had like Dr. Carl Hart there, Duncan Trussell, Shane Mouse, Jason Silva, a lot of awesome voices in the emerging biohacking, wellness psychedelic community. You know, psychedelics, I feel, fall into this kind of wellness category, as I'm sure you've seen. And yeah, as a filmmaker myself, loves storytelling. You could say psychedelics are part of my DNA. My dad tells me I was conceived on LSD. Obviously grew up with him using cannabis, being a being around mushrooms and stuff.

So, you know, doing some psychedelics storytelling and just being a caretaker for the reality sandwich community is a true honor and glad I get to carry the torch forward. That's so awesome. There's a certain sort of awareness that emerges from sort of living a life around psychedelics. Like you, it seems to me, at least in my own experience, and so many people I've talked to, you know, you really begin to pick up on like subtle cues. You get to kind of listen to the language of nature. and understand relationships a little bit different.

I see that coming through in the work you're doing, but maybe you could talk about that a little bit. Psychedelics are definitely boundary breaking. You know, there's a lot of people need to heal from a lot of trauma. We're living in traumatic and toxic environments, no matter how hard we try to escape that. And I feel psychedelics just kind of alter the thing you're thinking a bit, your patterns, and you being able to navigate this kind of system in the world we're living in. living in lets you identify you know the systems around you and how can i either break from that or kind of weave a better narrative for myself and my community and kind of live in a positive light

around this this toxic or traumatic environment that i'm unfortunately a part of um you know like anybody my my experience started you know smoking cannabis as a teenager you know that evolved into a few lsd and and you know mushroom trips nothing ceremonial you know my actual first ceremonial psychedelic experience was actually a few months ago with San Pedro Medicine was lucky to have an awesome facilitator down here in San Diego. And I felt like I got 10 years worth of therapy for sure out of that out of that awesome ceremony and, you know, really made me reflect that these psychedelics, you know, they're not the answer. They're just a tool for you to take and use, you know, the integration is important afterwards and you've got to continue to do the work. So here I am doing

the work every day and, you know, using using these as well. a cool tool to just stay grounded, stay positive, and continue to storytell and uplift the community around me. I love it, man. I think you're using the tools in an incredible way. And I'm curious, you know, when I think about ceremony, I think about initiation on some level. And, you know, it's a big tent initiation, maybe the first time you smoke cannabis or the first time you do mushrooms or LSD. That's sort of an initiation in some ways. But on some level, Kyle, like I've noticed this trend and it's not just in psychedelics, it seems that the world of initiation has given way to the world of buy-in. And it kind of upsets me a little bit. It seems like, oh, I got 10 grand or I got

five grand. I'll give it to you and then I'll be initiated. But that seems to be a far cry from the old ways of initiation where the questions were, tell me why you should be here. Or what, tell me about suffering. Tell me about holding your child's dead body. Tell me about something that you've sat next to that called to you that you think is an initiation. I feel like there's a lack there. We've just traded the initiation for a handful of dollars. What do you think about that? Well, I think that comes down to people are disconnected from community.

We don't really know our neighbors these days. We're all living pretty isolated. Everybody's on their own mission. You know, no one participates in local civics anymore really gets to know their neighbors or their community. So there's a lack. There's an emptiness. I feel, you know, I've experienced this myself and a lot of people we're searching for a group to be part of for a mission bigger than ourselves, you know, that the religion has kind of lost that a little bit.

You know, there are still churchgoers, but I feel even their mission is a little skewed or not true to the community in some sense. And we've had to replace that, you know, since since there's no local community for me to participate in, I need to find it online or digitally or it's 3,000 miles away. And, you know, we can't vet everybody. So the barrier to entry is unfortunately a dollar price. You know, there could be some things on top of that. But I think, again, since there's a lack of community support, we need everybody to chip in their dollars to keep this community afloat and pool our resources together. So there are obviously some nefarious buy-ins, people who are going to take your money and not give you much. But, you know, there's always a cost to anything.

And as long as the value and mission is aligned, I don't see a problem with that necessarily. one of my business partners, this nugget of truth, he always likes to quote is no margin, no mission. So, you know, we all need money to make the mission and community happen, you know, whether that's $1, $1,000, or a million. You know, we need resources to make it happen. And as much goodwill as you want to have or good work that you're doing, it still takes a dollar support. We need to figure out a way to unlock those. Yeah. It's messy. And I get it. Like I, who doesn't want to, to go out and change the world, especially after, you know, making a connection or a relationship

with psychedelics, you feel this calling and like, you see this change in your life. I'm like, how can I make this contagious? How can I do that? I guess for me, one of the sticking points is it's up to every individual. Like, if you want to pay 10 grand, a million dollars, whatever you want to pay. I mean, that's your decision and you can do it. But I think we run into issues where we graduate people with a certificate that may or may not mean anything. And then all of a sudden you have a person that could have went and read all the books for 1499 at Barnes & Noble, but instead they sat at the foot of someone who may or may not be on the front lines of the fight. You know what? And then you have this label of guide. And then all

of a sudden, like, just the monetization of it to me seems like it doles the instrument. I believe when the instrument becomes an institution, it sort of loses its ability to cut. Is that too harsh? Not harsh at all. You know, that's unfortunately a system, a symptom of the capitalistic system we live under. You know, people want to, you know, they have these psychedelic breakthroughs and experiences and want to share it with the world. But what kind of makes you a facilitator or a shaman or a guide, you know, if you're not from these traditional native communities, you know, We've got a lot of ego shamans out there. The Tulumani, somebody recently mentioned.

That's a good organization word, I feel. So, you know, psychedelics, unfortunately, for some people, the ego ramps up instead of dissolving. And now they want to be a guru. We recently did a deep dive on this on Reality Sandwich. You could check out that article by our wonderful editor, Holly Crawford. You know, it was the low-hanging fruit for people to monetize psychedelic experience. or pass on their knowledge. You know, it's a sticky area wanting to sell gray market ayahuasca binds or

powders or some of these mushroom chocolate bars. But, hey, you know, I feel like I've learned from this indigenous community. I want to pass on this knowledge and I'm going to become a psychedelic facilitator and give you this certificate. You're going to pay 10 grand and it's a six-month intensive course. And, you know, now we're officiating you as like a guide for you to go out and do this. We've noticed there's not a lot of follow through because, yeah, you may be teaching these people out to be a guide, but you didn't teach them any business sense. A lot of people are coming into the psychedelic community from working in nine to five or a different sort of thing.

They're not used to being entrepreneurs and you've armed them with becoming a facilitator, but now they don't have the skills to be a solopreneur and kind of spin this into a real business for themselves. You know, people have invested, you know, people invested in these courses and this content. something to that. There should be a ticket to entry, but I think it's a little excessive charging multiple thousands of dollars, not even giving somebody the medicine and now kind of stamping them as a psychedelic facilitator. Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. It's a great point. Maybe, I don't know, I, you know, I talked to Dr. Jessica Rochester, who's the Mahadvina of a Santo Dime church in Montreal. And when we talked about initiation, she's like, you know, George, people try to People want to, they want in and I get it.

They're spiritually hungry. But when they come to my door, like they wait outside for a few days. I don't even talk to them. Like there's this old school process of like, I don't, I don't know who you are. I don't know what you're about. Like how could I possibly know if I even want to teach you or if you're ready to be taught? You know, it's it's interesting to think about that. We got Noney.

Tony, thank you so much for chiming in over here. Kyle, she says to you, what would you say to people who aren't the biggest fans of psychedelics? Thank you, Noney. Yeah, still a lot of stigmas to be broken. You know, this is medicine. We, you know, I think we're scratching the surface of people finding seeing that veterans want to get this help. It's, there's been amazing breakthroughs for dealing with PTSD, trauma, depression. You know, if you're not a fan, you know, it's just just about educating somebody, right?

Somebody knows somebody knows somebody who's a veteran or suffering from depression or PTSD. And here's a chance for them they get the help they need that aren't pharmaceutical medicines that, you know, These aren't, quote, drugs anymore. You've kind of been brainwashed on that. So always take it low and slow with somebody who's pretty anti-psychedelics, you know, show them the information. You know, I'm not a fan of pushing ideology on people. So, you know, some people don't need psychedelic medicine, and that's okay, too.

But, you know, we don't want to stop people from getting access to the healing that they need. So education is always the key. Storytelling, showing them cool sites like reality sandwich, tricycle day, blind all the cool storytellers out there and again the the lowest hanging fruit to a lot of people who are probably anti-psychedelic or show show the veterans and their stories and how it's really helping them deal with the trauma that they've seen and you know nobody nobody wants to say they don't want to help veterans so you know good good place to start there yeah awesome comment noni thank you for that yeah stigmas are so real you know i i when i think about stigmas and and

I think about science a little bit. Sometimes, Kyle, I get upset with the system of science, especially in psychedelics. And one that's really been on my mind lately is this incredible amount of money that I think is wasted on, like mechanism of action. Like, we have people that have studied mechanism of action for like 30 years and spent almost a billion dollars. And all we have is a safety protocol. Like what? I feel like we're standing at the tree line and staring at the shadow of the fire when we can like, well, let's go feel it's warm. Let's try to cook something.

Let's try to do this. Like, we have this incredible tool, but people are so caught up in labs and like, let's just see how this thing works. But in my opinion, mechanism of action is sort of like trying to see your head through your eyes. Like, you can't do it. It's like you can't do it, man.

Like, why don't we work on real things? We know it works. Why are we spending so much time in these labs, studying things that really don't give us any sort of fruit? Again, just a symptom of living under the capitalistic and United States government structure. sure, you know, we have the FDA, we have big, billion dollar farm companies who are invested in keeping the system how it is and wanting to run everything through them so they can profit

off of these plants and medicines. You know, we don't need, we don't necessarily need that system. You know, it's peace of mind for some people, for the older generations of sure. But, you know, like you advise, just kind of dive right into it. We don't necessarily need that. But if you need that peace of mind, it should be there as well for your doctor. these pharma companies to sign off on. Yeah, it's really well said. I'm excited on some level to see all the people moving forward. And I think the veterans a huge part of it.

Our friend Jack Gorsland has done some incredible work at getting out there and talking about base-aiders and just talking about all of sort of like the moving parts and what happens. And what do you see happening here on the legalization front? I'm a fan of decriminalization, not legalization. You know, let's just get people access and, you know, not criminalized for possessing these materials. As we saw on canvas, legalization is not necessarily the best track. You know, it had this bill in California had good intentions. But as we see, a lot of companies have lost traction, lost lots of money.

It's hard, you know, million dollars before you even get started on just the license. And, you know, legalization is nice word to use, but I don't know if that's necessarily the right path. And again, you're going to get interested parties now writing bills from pharma, from politicians, from local law enforcement. You know, everyone's got a monetary interest in bringing these things online. So we've got to be careful, you know, who's profiting and who we're really trying to help. Yeah, it's interesting. I think you guys at Reality Sandwich are doing a great job of bringing in people with just different kinds of voices. I know Caesar Marin, good friend of mine, he's got an incredible article up over there.

I know you got, I just read something from Nina Issel, who I got to get more familiar with. But how are you resourcing all these people, man? What does the process look like at Reality Sandwich to go out and find these voices? Honestly, we get a lot of amazing people approaching us. I'm super lucky. I don't have to, you know, it's very validating when I'm out in a public setting. And I mentioned I, you know, run Reality Sandwich and people's eyes light up. They're like, oh, my God, I've been reading that for 10 plus years.

You know, Reality Sandwich, again, one of the. the original sites where you could even find info on consciousness, spirituality, microdosing, psychedelics. So it's super validating to hear this from people, not just numbers on, you know, I can see how many people open our emails or come to the site every month, but it's nice to put faces behind those numbers. We're super lucky to have a large contributor network. A lot of people, you know, reach out to us over email and message us on the social media channels, wanting to share their experience. We have an amazing YouTube series called Share Your Experience,

where people can, you know, dive in deep on their personal interactions with psychedelic medicines. It's an awesome resource for people who may be nervous to try different substances. You can see now testimonials from a dozen plus people on their experience with DMT or since I've been, you know, lets you get a taste of what you should anticipate. Again, even from the beginning, guys like Daniel Pinchbeck, we had, you know, a lot of, a lot of cool guys wanting to write for reality sandwich and be on there. We've got an amazing lead editor, Holly Crawford.

She's kind of our vibe check for a lot of the people who want to, you know, write something on reality sandwich. We get a nice feel for them, make sure they're, you know, appropriate voice, somebody respected in the community and make sure, you know, they pass all of our check marks there before we want to platform them. Yeah, you guys are doing a great job and shout out to everybody on the team out there. Thank you for me and the community out there. It's a cool resource.

And we got some people chiming in over here, Kyle. They want to know what's the first story you ever told that made you realize the power of media to disrupt? Wow. That would be, you know, honestly, a pretty transformative experience for me was my first documentary I produced. You could find that on YouTube. It's called a Home for Recovery. We focused on a friend of mine in his battle with opioid addiction and setting him on the path towards recovery. the director's father struggled with alcoholism.

We followed that narrative as well. And, you know, I've always been a filmmaker. My background's in filmmaking. So storytelling, again, a huge part of my life. And wanting to platform amazing education, storytelling opportunities, and just spread the word about different causes and people's stories. So always been, you know, since a little kid, loved film, loved watching movies, wanted to learn how to make them and what goes on behind the scenes.

So storytelling is just so. key to the human experience that we need kind of artists and the creatives out there making sure everyone's voice can be heard and, you know, platforming unique voices. Yeah, I love it. I'm curious, you know, in today's world, we have so many tools. And it seems like the power of storytelling combined with mythology and psychedelics really allows, you know, the opportunity to tell a new kind of story. Like, you know, we've been kind of trapped in this two-dimensional world now, but you start looking

at the different YouTube channels and some of these young creators like Dr. X or even Vlad or, you know, people's new content out there. It's like this fusion of like real-time video with voices and music. It really seems like we're starting to hit on a multi-sensory modalities, man. As a filmmaker, what are your thoughts on that? I'm excited for the future of AI integration into that. I mean, multi-sensory modalities. We're going to have people plugged into VR headsets with the seat vibrating, real 5D, you know, viewing experiences. You know, there are some people out there even trying to replicate psychedelic experience just with the VR mask and having a vibrating, you know, sensation going on in a chair.

So super excited for more experiences like that. I definitely suffer from, let's call it, content overload these days. There's still much content out there. How do I know what to focus on? You really get people really going to have to niche down and, you know, kind of stay in a thin lane. of their interests or it's going to be very overwhelming. Is that what you do? How do you deal with like the content over?

Like there's so much cool stuff out there. Like how do you how do you narrow it down? Um, you know, I really just try to try to stay in my lane. I focus on, you know, at reality sandwich, we're definitely more eager to talk spirituality, consciousness, again, to have the resources for the psychedelic community. I'm not necessarily focused on up-to-date news reporting, let's call it, and covering the quote industry. So just knowing, you know, what kind of stories you want to tell and staying in that lean,

so I know to not have to pay attention to the constant stream of other info pouring in. Yeah. I really try to limit my screen time. I'm somebody who works from home, unfortunately stuck in front of the computer most hours of the day. So definitely always try to take a break to a reset, get outside of nature. And, you know, make sure I don't overwhelm myself knowing when to take a break from the content and the screen. Do you have a, for me, like I got a, I have a little bin over here where I'd keep like my couple little mushrooms stashed in there in case I need to like, you know, reset or something like that. And for my, my program, you know, I'll do like a big dose.

I'll do like maybe like seven or eight grams once a month. And then I follow that up with like just a bite here and there. But it's really helped. And I think that those big doses allow you to sort of really broaden your awareness. and then these smaller micro doses allow you to maintain that thread to process the information in these sort of alternative states. But what does your process and your relationship with psychedelics look like on a day, month, week, or year?

Yeah, I have not taken psilocybin in about two years now. I had a pretty, let's call it, bad experience from a product somebody gave me. It wasn't, you know, dosed correctly. So it was definitely more than I was anticipating and soured my night a little bit. I've not taken any psilocybin for two years now. The San Pedro experience I had a few months ago was very enlightening for me. That was pretty low dose, not very psychedelic. And again, I got like 10 years of therapy in that session.

Yeah. I followed up with the integration afterwards. Otherwise, I'm a pretty, you know, that's my, I don't microdose. I'm not on the stamet stack or dead. I do take, I do take mushroom supplements every day. Yeah. finds turkey tail, cordyceps mix, and definitely a daily cannabis user as well. You know, cannabis gets left out of these psychedelic medicine conversation.

But, you know, nice to partake in that plant medicine daily as well. I'd say that's my ritual, was microdose and cannabis daily. You know, it's interesting you bring up San Pedro. I was talking to Jessica Tracy, who's an incredible young Ian coach and just an incredible human being. And she was telling me that she practiced this thing called Medicine of the Ghost. where she went on this incredible San Pedro journey and then did acupuncture at the height of the San Pedro journey. I was like, wait a minute.

You did acupuncture at the height of a psychedelic. Won't you afraid? Weren't you scared? But it's an interesting. And I'm hearing more about San Pedro. Maybe you could talk a little bit about your San Pedro experience. Yeah, San Pedro was very subtle heart-opening medicine. They called the grandfather medicine.

So you're tapping into the grandfather spirit there. I've been told recommend doing it during the day. We had an awesome giant bonfire going. You want the warmth of the fire on you. And you're not, quote, like, tripping. You're not getting visuals. You're not like tripping out. It's very heart opening.

We were in a pretty decent-sized community. So everybody was viving off each other's energy, communicating. I think that'd be a really great experience if you took some Sanpager and did some acupuncture. There was a woman there who microdoses San Pedro every day. So it helped her get off her Adderall. And again, the effects I was feeling, I could really see. that as an awesome replacement. So yeah, San Pedro is very activating depending on the dose and could definitely get you off some of those pharmaceutical meds. The acupuncture in San Pedro

definitely sounds like a therapeutic experience. So I would highly recommend it to everybody, especially having a nice guide facilitator there. You know, who knows what they're doing and can kind of walk you through, you know, maybe what your intention is or what you're looking to gain out of the experience. Yeah. It's a, it's so fascinating to me to get you. to see all of these medicines that have been there for so long, sort of reintegrating their way into a world that kind of seems sick. You know, we have all these diagnoses for mental illness. But in a way, it just seems like it's caging our spirit.

You know, like some of these drugs that are just, you know, they find ways. We're all stemming from the Roman system, which had to cage the spirit, you know, so we're still suffering from the effects of that thousands of years later. Yeah. Is it, you know, when I look at this sort of psychedelic reemergence on some level, I feel like we're in the late 50s, getting ready to emerge into the 60s somehow. Like, and I see these young creators like, Ollie Jen Bush has got this incredible band and he's playing and he's a psychologist, you know, but I don't know. In my opinion, I see us in the early stages of this sort of revolution where we're going to see an explosion and creativity. What are your thoughts on that? Is it similar? Does it echo? Or? What are you thought? Beautifully put, I mean, again, you can say the reason we have these, these, you know, computers at home and these awesome devices are because these guys were tripping on LSD, you know, Silicon Valley and, you know, creating all this stuff. So LSD psilocybin, great for unlocking creativity.

You're very much right. We're just on the cusp of now people breaking the stigma, wanting to have a psychedelic experience. And that's going to lead to an explosion of creative thought and, you know, new systems we can design as we see the old system crumbling around us. I see it with reality sandwich too. Like there's so much talk and it seems on this at this point right now, medicalization has sort of taken all the oxygen out of,

out of the space. But I see like what you guys are doing over there. You know, you guys are putting out people like Nina Issel and Caesar Marin and like you have all these people that are speaking beyond the cage of the sterile clinics. And they're talking about going out into the. community, they're doing things. You got people like Kat Turner going and talk about end of life with psychedelics. And is this, do you see that happening? Like it's like, whoa, look at this creativity,

but spark ready to blow up. Yeah, beautifully put, you know, even, even in the festival scene, we're seeing a lot more for access to psychedelic medicines. There's more voices, you know, people are coming out of the woodwork now and being able to talk about their experiences, people who were afraid or, you know, worked in a more of a corporate setting. It's now cool to be microdosing or sending your people to a microdosing or consciousness retreat to try to unlock some things there. People are seeing and using psychedelics as an optimization tool. Yep. So that's where I feel the conversation is being steered.

And with that, now that people, you know, it's not going to rot your brain, it's actually going to make you better, better employee, better worker. I think, you know, we'll be able to break. the glass ceiling there and get everybody to buy in. Yeah, there's some interesting talk about insurance companies beginning to accept some of these modalities as treatment. Can you imagine, like, if you had access to psychedelics on some level, like, I got to think that it's going to help people thoroughly understand their relationships of where they are, their family, their workplace, who they are and where they fit in.

I hear whispers that in insurance companies. I know Dr. Bruner has adopted it, but have you heard some of the same things happening? Yeah, especially again, the low-hanging fruit to monetize yourself in the psychedelic space was ketamine, was illegal substance, you know, gets slotted into the psychedelic conversation. So the ketamine clinics, I feel, were the first doctors and nurses bought into that, and, you know, they were able to get the insurers on board so people could have access to this. Again, that's a whole other conversation. We shouldn't even be living in a system with, quote, insurance, and people should have access to right medicine.

you know, we won't, we won't go too deeply there. Yeah, it's interesting, too, to think about all the institutions that are on the cusp of change and what can happen. I just finished my taxes and I was like, man, what are we doing here? Like, why don't we have a flat tax, man? It would be so much easier. And, like, you know, you can't. Why it's a burden on me to fill out all this paperwork and see throughout what I would mean. Yeah.

You know, I've seen a really interesting burgeoning relationship between, like, the NFT, the crypto like blockchain and psychedelics. I see some of these artists. I'm doing this thing called the Psychedelic Science Art Challenge. And I've partnered with all these incredible artists that are using tools like Unreal Engine. And they're really bridging that landscape. But maybe you could speak to more of the ideas of sort of technology and psychedelics sort of kind of walking hand in hand.

Yeah, especially with the rise of AI here. We're really going to see, you know, the integration of technology, you know, being able to transcribe your psychedelic experiences or just being able to create more freely and easily and with crypto you know that allows us to maybe even create a system outside of capitalism and fiat-backed currency now like hey here's a way for our community to come together and and do reciprocity and kind of be outside the system of the you know using u.s currency or something like that a great organization event i just went to was with a crypto organization called light dow So they're a conscious entrepreneurial group.

You know, they want you to buy in with their crypto and be part of this conscious entrepreneurial community and met a lot of really cool people there working on a lot of cool projects. And, you know, that's one way to utilize this, this Web 3, this crypto, you know, blockchain technology is to really hone down and solidify your community and start building ways to operate outside of the system. Yeah, we've got one coming in your from Desiree. She says relationships are the real currency. I think it's a great point. What do you think of, Kyle, when you hear Desiree say relationship. Your net worth, as they say, relationships are definitely

currency. Again, that ties back to community. You know, what community are you in, who backs you, who represents you, who are your friends? Since we're all cut off from community, we're all desperately searching to either build our own or become part of one that our values align with. And, you know, we can't. We've been in the United States, definitely been focused on individual outality and being able to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. And that's not, you know, the way the world has operated for the past thousand years. It takes a village to raise a child. That's true more. You know, I see my brother's definitely struggling. He's a bit isolated with his first kid and it sucks not living your grandma, you know, 3,000 miles away.

You need community support to raise your children to build the community. It takes a team. And I think that's something more and more people are going to realize and want to start building intentional communities around themselves where they can really work together and build a safe haven for themselves. It's so well put. Like I on some level, I think that that's been the ailment of so many of us. Like we've been told these lies about to go out and make it, go out and do it yourself. But, you know, the person, you know, if you just think about it for a little bit, like you can't make it, you're born with it. And like the community has it.

The person selling it never had it. The person that tells you about it's trying to get an illusion of it. The person that the girl's singing in the garage, she's got it. The artist, he has it. Like we're all born with it. But you've got to be able to share it. And when you start talking about families and communities, you know, I lived in Hawaii for a long period of time. I really got reintroduced to the idea of intergenerational living

and how incredible it is for your daughter to spend time with your grandma, your grandfather, and be in the same house and really understand how much more of an advantage you have in life if you have this intergenerational contact. And it seems like in the West we've forgotten that. And we've pull yourself up by the bootstraves. Get out of your house. Buy your time.

You're 17. Buy a car. Buy a house. Get all this craziness, man. Maybe that was feasible at one point, you know, houses for $20,000. But now, you know, the intergenerational living is super key. And we've lost, you know, I try to build that with my family for sure.

It's, it's wealth building. It's like right now you're not out paying a landlord $3,000 a month. You can save that. And when you're out working, Grandma can watch the kids and take care of some chores around the house. You're not stressed coming back to a dirty place and all these chores you got to do now on top of the work you were just out and doing, you know. It definitely sucks.

I'm sure some people have a lot of talking. toxic families and can necessarily live with them. But I think if we're building healthier relationships and systems, it starts with having a nice, you know, working together intergenerational family kind of all on an aligned mission. Yeah, I love that, man. I love the sort of resourcing and getting back to our roots and community and whether it's psychedelics or breathwork or just exercise or whatever people they're doing to find a community. I'm here for it. Speaking of communities, We got this big event coming up in Denver, man. Psychedelic Science 2025, man.

What are your thoughts? Yeah, this will be my first time attending. I wasn't able to make it a few years ago when they had it heard was smash hit, you know, 13,000 plus people there. So showing people are hungry for psychedelics and seeing what the community is all about. We're going to be doing some awesome activations with my colleague Jacob Tell from District 216 in Santa Barbara, Carly Dutch Green, an amazing. Psychedelic designer, we've all come together and on the 17th and 18th of June, we're going to be having an awesome event.

Some cool after parties, some cool activations outside of the conference itself. So it should be an amazing time. If you want to or be part of the psychedelic community, this is going to be the place to be for sure. Everyone I've talked to in space sounds like they're going to have some sort of presence there, whether that's an actual booth on the show or just being in Denver, you know, taking meetings, seeing who they could hang. out with. Yeah. It's my first time coming, too. And, like, there's so many cool satellites coming up, like Psychedelic Playhouse.

I know Lakshmi's got a theater going out there. And I think Doc Askins is going to speak over there. It seems like there's all these little satellites popping up. You know, it's almost like a little burning man. A miscelial network of Denver activating there. Yeah, I've heard in the past years it definitely was overwhelming. So, you know, if you want to keep your peace, be super strategic. where you want to show up who you want to network and align with and, you know, make it valuable for yourself.

Yeah. It seems like there's so much good that can come out of there, you know, and there's one thing I love about it is like there's so many diverse voices. You know, you have everybody from Kristen Cinema to some indigenous people talking. And like obviously different voices have different sorts of tones and they have different points of views. But like that's where the magic is. When these people can get together and you can have a real conversation about I think this, I think that. Here's why. Here's this. It should be exciting. Yeah, super excited. Definitely, definitely key to meet up with the whole community there. It's going to be a really great event. If you haven't gotten tickets yet, highly recommended. Make your plans to make the pilgrimage to Denver.

Yeah, it should be a great time out there. So reach out to check it out. Are you guys doing anything in reality sandwich gearing up towards that? I know you got some cool voices over there, but do you have anything planned leading up to that? Yeah, we're, you know, we're a small, tight-knit team. It's really just going to be me out there. So glad to be partnering with Jacob and the psychedelic playhouse in District 216. We'll be doing some cool interviews there and, you know, wanting people to share their psychedelic experience.

Otherwise, just come up and say hi to me. I'll be walking the trade show floor, meeting cool people, doing some cool interviews. You know, we've got our event on the 17th and 18th. Just excited to get deep with the community. Nice. I got some questions stacking up over here. Let me get to this. Yeah, this one comes to us from our buddy Clint.

He says, with so many brands chasing clicks and gimmicks, how do you build voice instead of just noise? Again, super great point. We've never really taken a sponsorship dollar at Reality Sandwich. We're super lucky. Our kind of agency work has kept a lot of the bills and lights on. So we, you know, anybody who does want to participate to our community, we really try to bet. We recently launched the Reality Sandwich app. Something we have on there is our sourcing guide.

So we were able to lab test and really vet a lot of the gray market, black market guys out there. And anybody who passed our vibe check, we have listed in our sourcing directory guide. So if you're looking for the best of the best, make sure to download the reality sandwich app. And like anything, look for people who are aligned in the community. Are they a fly-by-night company with just a one-page website, let you buy. mushroom chocolate bars, you know, who's the face behind the people popping this up? Are they in your local community? Just always do your research. A lot, again, shout out to this brand new tropics.

They lab test every one of their products and post that for everybody to see. They really take pride in being part of the community. They're usually at every, you know, Southern California-based psychedelic or cannabis event. And they're, you know, there are true faces behind the brand. They're not some fly-by-night guys looking to make a quick buck. What's the name of them again? Notropics, Newtropics? Newtropics, yeah. N-E-A-U-T-R-O-P-I-C-S.

If you're subscribed to our reality sandwich email list, you may have saw a shout-out to them recently. This is another avenue of exploration that is really exciting for me. And as someone who's been a fan of research chemicals for a long time, Like there's so many incredible Neotropics out there. You know, the whole family of parasitams and just the different race tams. I'm a fan of Phenobut and obviously functional mushrooms. But, you know, they kind of, they came up.

And then all of a sudden, I think that the powers that be shut them down pretty quick. Used to be able to buy them pretty freely. But what are your, what are your thoughts on Nootropics? Like where, what do you source them? What do you? Yeah. Yeah. They shut out to Alexander Shogun for discovering a lot of this stuff and doing doing the work for

the community, you know, free of charge. Again, now there sound like some really great activating chemicals out there that are clean and don't do any damage. Obviously, there's people who want to stick to organic, grown, you know, psychedelic medicines like the ayahuasca psilocybin. But, you know, I've been told there's this really great substance out there called mitocin. That's a DMT psilocybin derivative that I'm hearing is better than psilocybin.

Doesn't make you as nauseous and still gives you a. a nice journey, you know, whatever you're looking for with, that's a microdose or macro dose. Yeah, so a lot of exciting things coming out of the research chemical department. As long as they're, you know, as long as they're clean, not hurting anybody, no reason not to try, right? Yeah. It's interesting. What are you looking for for your wellness stack? You just look into boost creativity.

You're looking to feel more activated at work or in the gym. You know, always, you know, do your research, try different things and see what works for you. it's it's well said thanks for putting it out there i it's interesting you bring up the word stack too like so many of us have like this stack of things that we use and you know i think we're moving away from the really amphetamine based stacks towards a more creative heart centered stack i mean definitely need some energy in there and maybe you can get that through you know um some lions main or something like that but it's interesting to see the way the relationship between these things And for me, I like to use, I experimented quite a bit with psilocybin and MK67, which is like a growth hormone sacralog.

I think that there's real opportunity in the future for a growth hormone to be partnered with some of these psychedelics. And I think it's because it doesn't blow up neuroplasticity on some level. What are some other relationships and some other stacks that you find helpful? Yeah, somebody, you know, again, somebody gave me some product. there are microdosed MDMA and psilocybin gummies and that was a really great experience. I'm hearing three MMC. It's really great. There's a lot of business thought leaders out there using three MMC as part of masterminds that you can go to.

I'm hearing that's really activating for the entrepreneurial business world. So 2CB, another great, another great chemical out there. Again, that's very hard opening, very activating, really great to stack. you know, I think it's part of your morning activation and, you know, getting you enlightened for the day. Again, my, my stack just sticking with the adaptogenic mushrooms daily lines, main, cord, seps, turkey tail. Yeah. I love it. You know, we talked earlier a little bit about how psychedelics are moving out of the medical container.

But, you know, I can see it being used, especially like at team events. You know, if you're a trainer or something like that and you're, you're a trainer or something like that. working with a college basketball team. Like, there's no reason why you guys couldn't have a weekend vision quest to thoroughly understand what it means to be a team or have some sort of, you know, integrated journey together on some level. And I got to think that just the power of visualization, and we'll just take sports as an example,

I really think it could push you to the next level of what is possible. What are your thoughts? Absolutely. Great for team building. You don't build a psychic energy connection there. Members to get even deeper. Yeah, really great. Again, we're really using these substances for the wellness hacking and biohacking and being more intentional with what we want to do together better than taking everyone out to drink all weekend.

You know, let's do something intentional and activating and still have a good time. Yeah, I love it. I love the idea of the intention behind it and then the ability to integrate it afterwards and see real results and team and creativity and focusing and moving there. Here we go. We got a, who is this? This is coming from Neil from Tomecula. He says, how do you balance being a rebel with being responsible, especially when the topics you cover are real, raw, and dangerous?

Yeah, you know, a colleague, you know, not to speak too soon on the situation, but a colleague recently got taken down by the police for being associated with the psychedelic event. So, you know, somebody warned me, hey, be careful, you know, putting your name out there and attaching yourself. I'm always been a rebel. Rebel. I'm not afraid of any consequences. You know, I'm, you know, happy to wave the flag and be a martyr. So I'm not necessarily afraid. I, you know, I'm pretty, I'm pretty risk. I've got good risk management and, you know, just not afraid to put my face and tell stories out there. Super lucky to have a supportive family and wife and community around me. So, you know, God forbid anything does happen. I know I've got the

safety net and support system to bring me back from the brink. I love that. I think it underscores the idea of courage. And in some ways, that's the psychedelic journey. And maybe this ties back to the earliest part of our conversation where people want to have the experience, but maybe they're afraid to commit themselves to the mystery. You know what I mean? Like psychedelics demand that you have courage.

Like you can micro- Let go. You got to keep you there. Embrace it. Yeah. And I, I, it's both the, I get it. Like, it's scary. And for those out there that, that are in this arena, like, you should be afraid. Like, if you're going to take a large dose, like, you should be a little bit afraid because you are not going to be in the same reality that you were two hours ago. You know, and that's healthy, I think. It's, but that's, that's the call to courage. It's the call to action. It's the threshold guardian. You know, like, you have to be ready. Like, it takes courage to go. So. You know, like, it takes courage to go. super deep on that. You've got to learn some things about yourself that maybe you've been suppressing for a little while. What's your thoughts on courage and having the power to do it? Listen, everything you do in life is a risk, no matter how hard you think you prepared or, you know,

anticipated every possible outcome. So it's just about taking that first step. And, you know, a little bit of fear is good. Make sure you're on your, you're paying attention. You're on the ball. But you just got to, you just got to be brave and take that first leave. Yeah, in some ways I feel like, at least in my experience, psychedelics have been like a courage simulator. And what I mean by that is sometimes in the depth of a psychedelic journey, you are faced with thoughts about yourself, things you're shameful of, things that are guilty. And you can't suppress it. It just stays there. And the more you try to suppress it, like the louder it just hovers over you.

But I think it's really simul. It's like a simulation for life. Like it teaches you in a, in a, if you've set the set and setting right and you're comfortable, it will teach you how to face your fears. And once you've done that internally, you can begin to do it externally. You can take those chances. You can have that conversation. You can stand up for yourself against people that maybe don't really even think that much of you.

What are your thoughts? Yeah, great point. Again, the importance of having, you know, true facilitators or guides as part of your experience how we work through those emotions, work through the visions, shame, trauma you're trying to go in with. And again, the importance of intention before you even take these medicines. You know, it's one thing that have a good time at a festival versus, hey, I'm here to maybe dig up some things and heal and, you know, let's see.

Let's see what gets brought up. So just always, again, these medicines are just tools. You've got to do the work afterwards. So always be prepared for that integration period before and after. Do people need guides? I don't know if like the average person really needs a guide. Maybe the first time. Like you could have someone hold your hand.

But I think that most people are selling themselves short. Like here it is. Do you have the courage to do it? Like do it. You don't need a guy. You don't need a coach. Like just do it. It's right.

Just do it. There's a plethora information out there. If you're a real go-getter and do it yourself person, there's no reason you should be afraid, you know, all the, all the information and stories are out there for you to prepare the best you can and take this medicine either on your own or with a group or, you know, so, so yeah, you're correct. Not everybody needs it. Most people do.

Most people need their handheld. So, you know, it's nice. We have the shamans, the facilitators out there to, you know, help guide. Yeah. That's a great quote. I think McKenna said it. Or he quoted someone else. And I don't have the original person that said it.

So forgive me everybody for not quoting the source. But I heard it first hand. through McKenna and he was like, that which you are seeking is seeking you. So if you find yourself thinking about psychedelics or maybe you think about buying a boat, whatever it is that you're seeking, that thing is seeking you and you should investigate it and you should go down that path. And it's just amazing to think about how these alternate states of awareness can really unlock the doors of living a life worth living and investigating who we are. They're so fruitful. Yeah, I truly believe, you know, a person who really believes everything happens for a reason.

Everything is divine timing. So when the timing, it's right, it's right for a reason. You know, things happen to you because they were meant to happen. So, you know, take that info and use it how you will. Kyle, like, this always happens. Like, we're blow through an hour, like, in what feels like seven minutes, you know. And maybe it's because we're both so passionate about it. But I do have another question.

I got like one or two or I'll try to squeeze in here. Okay. On the topic of building a platform, what's the revolution you're inviting people into? And what kind of voices do you want standing beside you? This comes from Betsy and Oceanside. Thanks, Betsy. Wow. Let's break that down.

What voices do I want standing beside me? I want renegades. I want free thinkers. I want creatives. I want people who take controversial opinions. Nobody nefarious, but I want to, I want to, I want to, Rainbow Coalition of Voices, you know, let's hear the full spectrum of opinions and come to a cool story that we can tell and guide people with. What was the first part of that question again? I'm sorry.

What's the revolution you're inviting people into? I'm inviting people to educate themselves about consciousness, spirituality, psychedelics. You know, we're living in a toxic system and the more, you know, medicine you can take and stories you read on platforms like Reality Sandwich, it will unlock a new. paradigm of thinking for you and how to interact with your local community and build the life and system that you want to be a part of. Again, just launched the Reality Sandwich app. We've got daily meditation guides in there. We've got our substance sourcing guide.

We've got a lot of cool resources for people to get value out of. Yeah. And you had mentioned, too, that you have the share your experience. That kind of sounds to me like the old trip reports on Erow with. You know what I mean? Like those are so fun to read. Yeah, exactly, exactly. That was definitely our intention of it with that. We've got some amazing feedback. This is public on our YouTube channel.

So, you know, you're thinking about trying DMT right here are 12 voices of people who experience a DMT trip. So you can get a taste of what the experience will be like. And now, you know, you're best prepared to do the journey yourself. Yeah, it's the amount of resources out there right now are mind blowing to me. And I'm so thankful for the people that are out there making it happen. For one thing I really admire is that the price to contribute, the bar is so low. Like you can go on reality sandwich, put in your report or your experience. And you have no idea who that's going to affect.

It's like throwing that little pebble into a still calm water and seeing the rules radiate out. It's like everybody at this stage of the game is a contributor. Everybody, especially right now where psychedelics are at, like you're on the ground floor, everybody. Get in here. The tents open. Come on in. and let's figure this thing out on some level. Thanks for building that platform now.

It's still super early. And trust me, we're not making millions of dollars at reality. There's a passion project that we're happy to be giving to the community and our fans. I love that you brought that up because I see so much passion and so many people. And like that is what it takes to have a movement sweep across the world in a fashion that's contagious and deliberate and powerful. It's it is. There's so much passion around it right now. Yeah, that's really all we have.

You know, this is still a super early industry, you know, unless you're, unless you're coming from the BC world or farmer world, you know, these projects are pretty bootstrapped. Teams are small. So you really got to have the undying passion if you want to make it in this, quote, psychedelic community. Yeah. Who's this one coming? This one's coming from Nick. Nick says, what's one message you'd broadcast to every young creator who's tired of algorithms and ready to shake. the system? Keep creating. You know, I, you know, I had a project I was working on a few years ago.

This 60-year-old guy just started bought an RV, started traveling around the U.S., and now he's got 600,000 YouTube subscribers. He's making 30 grand a month, producing YouTube videos. He invested in himself, going to the Mr. Beast YouTube school. Like, here's a retired guy who learned how to make YouTube videos himself. And, you know, it took a few years before you finally got traction and now is making a living off of it. So my advice, you know, I've, I've been disheartened. I've seen projects fall apart, things, no, you know, made videos. Nobody really saw.

But it's just keep making, keep producing, keep going because the community will be there for you. And you will build an awesome following. You just have to keep, keep going, keep doing the craft. Never stop. No matter how disheartening it gets, no matter how much you're like, I'm not making any money. Just keep doing it. I love that. You know, just the act of creating.

something in your life has an incredible, like a profound effect on all your relationships. And when you lean into this creative spirit that all of us have, like you really find parts of yourself that were lying dormant or, you know, seem to be inaccessible or maybe we're pushed out of you in this Prussian school model where you sat in front of an authoritarian figure and they told you this and you had to ask for a hall pass and ask for permission. Stop asking for permission and just do it. It's there for everybody. The tools are there. A lot of great free awesome tools. no more excuses as to why you can't make, you know, the only one holding yourself back is you. The tools are there for you to be a filmmaker, to be creative to build or do anything.

I love that. I love that. As we're landing the plane here, Kyle, let me throw it back to you, man. Where can people find you? What do you have coming up and what are you excited about? Super excited. If you're in San Diego coming up on 420 slash Easter weekend, we're doing an awesome van jam camp out in San Diego. going to be a lot of awesome vendors, a lot of great food, amazing roster of musicians. It's going to be an epic three-day weekend where we'll be all vibe in, enjoying some good music, some good foods, some good psychedelic medicine. Again, just would love for people to check out the Reality Sandwich app we just launched. We've got a slew of amazing articles and resources on RealitySandwich.com.

Follow us across all the social media channels for Search Reality Sandwich. my personal Instagram is good Kyle Smokes. You can check me out there for all the cool things I post. And then my full name right here for everyone to see, check me out on LinkedIn as well. I love it. Kyle, thank you so much to you and the entire team at Reality Sandwich,

to the psychedelic community for everybody out there that knows that there's a better life waiting for you. I hope you'll embrace it. And I hope you check out Reality Sandwich. I hope you reach out to Kyle. Go check out the event on 420. do yourself a huge favor and whether you're listening to this today or tomorrow

or a year from now download the reality sandwich app and Kyle hang on briefly afterwards but to everybody for hanging out today everybody that contributed I love you thank you so much for being here and I hope you have a beautiful day that's all we got. Aloha everyone Aloha!