TrueLife - Liberation Dialogues: Men and Women Redefining Power

Episode Date: November 28, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Ladies & Gentleman…we have an incredible conversation, with two outstanding leaders, on the future of leadership, relationships, & languagehttp://linkedin.com/in/paulinecrawfordwww.corporateheartinternational.comhttp://paulinecrawford.wordpress.com/http://linkedin.com/in/mancienthttps://www.divinesplinters.com/http://linkedin.com/in/mancienthttps://www.corporateheartinternational.com/post/being-a-woman-in-a-confused-world One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day or a beautiful evening or a beautiful lunch, wherever you are. I have two incredible guests with me today to talk about some fascinating topics. First we have up in the top right corner, our friend Hawk, a master of diverse realms, author, martial artist, hunter, and philosopher.

With 39 years of therapeutic mastery and amongst inside, he presents sound therapy, a dynamic fusion of life coaching, music, and profound healing. Down below, we have the incredible Dr. Pauline Crawford, an international keynote speaker and transformational guide with a global footprint, spanning three, three continents, UK, Europe, Malaysia, Asia, and North America. She leverages rich experiences to fuel her passion for fostering innovative thinking, specializing and empower female entrepreneurial leaders, colleagues, and consumers. Dr. Pauline refrains crucial conversations with a profound approach. Both individuals are incredible human beings, and I'm so thankful that you're both spending some time with here on the True Life podcast. Thank you for being here today. Pauline, how are you today?

really good thank you georgia thank you this is an amazing trio and i'm delighted to be here I'm sitting in the corner of my daughter's house trying to keep quiet with a very large dog next to me so this is unusual usually i'm in las vegas but i am British so i'm in my homeland

this week and it's extraordinary cold and i know that you know we've got different temperatures here but it's um yes it's really delightful to be here. I'm only just awake, so I hope that I'm functioning. I'm sure you'll be fine. We have our friend Hawk up here. He's driving.

He's up in Oslo. Are you up in Oslo right now? No, close to FedExa. In the Rostfall. And I'm also, I also got a huge dog sitting next to me. I got my Malinois strapped next to me in the passenger seat. What sort of dog do you have, Baleen? To go honest, I'm not sure.

I think it's a very large Labrador. I have a dog back in Las Vegas. My husband's still back there, and it's a very small dog. Okay. But the good thing about this dog is she doesn't bark. She's quite young, I think, probably four years old, and she's sitting on the sofa next to me. Fantastic.

We have a couple really interesting topics. talk about today. But I thought we'd start off with the paper that you wrote, Dr. Pauline, about women in a confused world. I thought that, I think both Hawk and I really appreciated that article. And I was just curious, if maybe you could fill in a little bit of the background for people who may not have read the link below, but maybe you could give us a little summary of it and some of your thoughts on it. I will do, George. Thank you. I study how men and women are beautifully unique and different. And that's really the starting point.

And we probably all know those listening in us here that there's a lot of confusion about what is a woman. Now, being a woman myself, I do know what that is. And for a start, it's not to do the way I look at it. It's not to do with sexual preferences or gender transition or whatever. It's, who am I as a human being? I know that you'll appreciate this. But, you know, I am.

a woman, I know I was born a woman, I happen to be heterosexual, I happen to be a baby boomer, I happen to be a Gemini, you know, what are all the things that we label ourselves with? I'm a mother and a grandmother, and I'm a business woman, and lots and lots of labels. But I have studied that if we actually understand value and maximize who we are as unique, men and women, we are the creatives of the world. I mean, literally, and figuratively, you know, together we create babies, together we create lots of things. And of course, men together do, and not being prescriptive about it, only being men and women. But what really happened for me when I started that article was there was an accession to the Supreme Court in America of a very intelligent, beautiful black lady, Jackson, her name is.

And she was asked, you know, what is it? What is a woman? and he failed to answer because she said, I'm not a biologist. And I thought that's really confusing. I mean, why not honour the fact that he is actually the first black woman on the Supreme Court and say, you know, I'm a fantastic human being? So actually, by creating this confusion, and we know there's a lot of confusion around the world,

we are not focusing on the pernicious issues where a lot of women are marginalized, discriminated, abuse, and I sort of think it's not about only women my work is all about men and women and actually I know both of you agree that it's about being human

so when somebody denied who they are biologically and personally I think that has the confusion we do know that there are 3.9 billion women in the world and 2.2 billion of those are mothers

so we're half of the world and for her to kind of confuse things as such an important role, I had to write the article. So my passion is for people to really be okay about who they are. That's fundamental. And my passion is to create authentic harmony in the world, so we need men and women. And also to create a joint custody world,

because as much as we'd like to deny it, men do have done create the world and do run the world generally you might disagree with me

in certain areas and I think there's a lot of change going on but really authentic harmony is my passion I must be saying

the right words because this dog is trying to get into the scene here and she is a she that's what I'd like to look like

so I'd like to do. So my article is quite long, but I wanted to get into some of the fundamentals. I'd like to talk to you about why do we get confused about certain subjects and we argue about them without going down to the core base of being a living, breathing human being.

And that for me is fundamental. And then being curious and inquisitive about also, you know, share with me who you are. let's discover our differences. Discover what makes us unique and different. So my passion is not just equality. It's being equal and different, being beautiful and magnificent,

and really exploring the idea that we could actually love each other rather than hate. There you go. I love it. Hock, you read the article. What did you think? Oh, I totally loved it. I mean, I see this. the world and the confusion you speak of,

Olin, it's so, I mean, being, I've been a child welfare worker since 2008 and I worked in social work since 1983. And what strikes me about the condition of youngsters is confusion. You know, it used to be back in the old days, you were born and if you were a male,

you joined the profession of your father. If you were female, you became a mother, and that was your mission. And now it's like, okay, you have all the opportunities of the world. You can even choose what you identify as. So I saw a video yesterday about somebody and he spoke about, I identify as a unicorn. I'm like, okay, yeah.

But I think it's a very difficult part to thread for the young people, because nothing is fixed anymore. And I especially find it interesting exactly the question that you rose, Pauline, you know, what is a woman? I'm a monk now. I've been a monk for four years. and that is an interesting life, a celibate monk. But I've been married for 25 years,

and I know what a woman is. I can tell by the field, by the energy, by her voice. And the fact that this high court black woman couldn't say that I'm a movement because I am one, and I recognize that in the other. I recognize womanhood. There were mother and all the potential that lies within that role.

I think it's a bit scary, actually, to me. Seeing how, for instance, academics, in Norway, we had a lot of gender debate. and the academics have been very restricted. There are like nine genders or whatever it is now currently. I'm not quite sure. Still, it all comes down to, you know, that there are people who are capable of being mothers,

who have an X, Y chromosome, and there are others who are not capable of being mothers who have an X, X, X, X, X, X, And it's, but it'll also, it's, I'm, you know, we're going to talk about, you talk about harmony. And harmony is created by being a musician. That's part of what I do, work a lot with. You know, you have a foundational, you have the key of the music. And then you, every instrument.

enters and either enhance the harmony or it diminishes it. And you can use both. But if it, everything is filled with this harmony, and it's not much of a pleasant music to listen to it. It doesn't really, at least to me, I'm not a fan of a 12 tone and all that. It sort of removes from the experience. Yeah.

I just love the article because it was so reinforcing for what I think. Because having three kids and having seen what they've gone through in our modern world where a lot of stuff is defined by social media. you have to follow the trends and everything instead of often, in my opinion, following your heart. That, yeah. It's interesting. Let me pose this question to both of you. It seems to me that we, that the majority of people believe in, like, in, what is the term I'm looking at?

In biological essentialism. Like, if you're born with this, then you're a man. If you're born with this, then you're a woman. But what does that mean about complexity? Is it possible that the world in which we're moving to is more complex? There's more nuances involved. And the old ways, like the binary way of thinking hasn't really enabled us to move forward in a life that's harmonies. We're moving in to a new paradigm.

And thus, language is changing. And language is, in fact, a mirror of the human. Like, everything is changing. It's fluid. So why wouldn't our language change? Why wouldn't the roles of genders change with that language? What do you think, Pauline? Well, it's a very interesting question.

And the thought that came up when I was a scene to Hawke, and thank you for your word, is why are we so finding, identifying ourselves so difficult? What do we actually see in the mirror? You know, I mean, I spent part of my life. I changed from being at home and not being an entrepreneur. And I came into business through being image consultant. Now, there you actually take people into the mirror and you look at actually their color and their shape,

how does clothes work. And what I realized, there was a deeper psychology there. It wasn't just the clothes and colors you wore, but it was how you felt about it inside. And I think that's a deep paradigm we need to shift in the world. It's like we don't need to teach the young kids what to think. to allow them to think for themselves. Now, you might say that would then gender all these different identities, being a unicorn or whatever. I think common sense is something we're lacking here.

You know, have you got two legs, two arms, have you got a heart, do you have hair on your head or not? You know, very basic, simple stuff. We've got so complex. We can call ourselves anything. I can change my name if I want to, but to force other people to believe that I'm a unicorn instead of a woman. And I think what's happened is we've got so strongly polarized by sexual preferences in the gender dysphoria that we said, oh, well, that must be a separate identification. When I look at it, we're not all the same as women, we're not all the same as men. And helping to understand our reactive behaviours is what I've studied in my work on gender dynamics, intelligence, can we be intelligent about the impact we have with somebody else?

So anything you choose to be has an impact on the people. So if you choose to be a unicorn, then I suspect you should have four legs. That's difficult, isn't it? I'm sorry, I'm not being foolish, but we can be, I say, as a woman, I can be, I can be homosexual, I can be homosexual, I could be, whatever I want to be, I say to people, who are you being at this moment of time with me? Are you being kind? Are you being loud?

Are you being funny? I mean, all of those things, we seem to miss the point of being basic breathing human beings. And as you say, you know, you two are not going to create, well, you can create babies, but you can't deliver them. So as far as I know, this happens in every continent of the world. So you have to ask, you know, that's really interesting. So when I designed my map, if I get anybody who says, oh, I'm not on your map, I say, but you're breathing. So I suspect you're somewhere. And I think we've become so, as you say, complex in the world.

We've created all sorts of problems. And I agree that the young kids are confused because they also have a mobile which leads them to all sorts of information, TikTok, God knows what. And we don't actually know what is coming down the line to them. I'm very grateful that I was born a long time ago and I didn't have those things because it was much simpler. But when I was a girl, I saw a girl, but when I was a young girl and I was a tomboy and climbing trees, I really had, even then, the challenge about the very feminine feminine woman, because that's not who I am. I'm a much more masculine-minded woman. and I call myself a magician and my sister as a sovereign.

But as I've learned to get to know these different characteristics, it's so empowering in the world to come together to make simplicity out of complexity. So if I would say to people, look, if you're in a difficult situation, you are being difficult. It's not the other person. You ask an audience of 100. How many of you are difficult and you'll get a couple of hands go up? If you say how many of you know a difficult person, every single hand.

You know, so the challenge is to honor a difficult situation saying, how are we different in order to understand each other? And this comes back to what you said about harmony. So the violins are not the same as the percussion. They're not the same as the woodwind. You know, all these instruments come together. So we need this difference, diversity, whatever we want to call it. And so I found that when I talk about harmony, men in particular respond much better than if you talk about equality.

I don't know whether you found that. Yeah, you know what? Whenever I think of equality, I think a diversity. Like what's the difference between equality and diversity? If I have 10 cups and I fill them up with different levels of water, are those cups equal or are they diverse? Well, you see, I think that equality has caused us a lot of problems. And I said that from a female point of view. Because now we're fighting.

I'm sorry. I messed up on my part right there. Inequality and diversity are kind of the same thing. That's what I was getting at. Sorry. Well, I think they're part of the whole complexity because if things are very diverse, then it's the definition of what is equal. They're equal, they have an equal right to be there, but they're not equal.

If you take it animals, you know, a horse is a horse equal to a dog. They've both got four legs. They're both run around. They're both animals. But I wouldn't say they're equal because they do different things. So I think we've got, and as Hawke said, you know, it's all about words. Right. And the misunderstanding of words, and that's why I create magical conversations.

And this is very simply conversations without judgment. So if we all say equal, we probably all have a different version of equal, depending on where we are and what the situation is. So if I have two things that are exactly the same, then they're equal. But if I have a say a violin and a piano, they both make music, but I wouldn't say they're equal. they may be equal-tempered. It's part and part of harmony. I think it's very fascinating what you're talking about because I think that the complexity has always been there.

But now we started to change the paradigm and we place labels on something and the labels become more important. than the actual experience of being there. It's like we, to use another example, to step away from gender, but you have the various diagnosis of psychiatry and you say that I'm, I have ADHD,

so that defines me, this is me, or I'm schizophrenes, I'm schizophrenic or I'm bipolar or neurotic or whatever you have. You let the words define instead of finding your place within. I'm a human being and sometimes I am a bit distracted. And some people call it ADHD. But I don't, I don't, I don't, I am not. ADH am a human being who's distracted. And to me there's a huge difference,

having worked with people with various labels, there's a huge difference. If you step into the diagnosis fully, and you say that, oh, I can't do this because I have bipolar. So you let it limit you instead of saying, okay, there's something I need to work on. I need to, how can I up my focus, for instance.

How can I learn how to focus in when there's something that bores me? Having gone to school and quite a few years of schooling, a lot of it bored me to death. And then, okay, I need to see, well, where should I focus? Yeah. I'd like to pick up on that for major. The challenge people go on about we mustn't have labels, but I would say a label is very useful, you know, or a sign.

You know, if that says go right and it's a good idea to go right, then I follow the sign. Or I go to a supermarket and everything's got labels so I can just say, oh, that's this kind of soup or that kind of soup. So labels are useful. I think labels are limiting when we limit them. It all comes down to the human equation. You know, if I decide that people who drive Volvos are X, Y and Z, that's sort of labeling them.

We know that we've done that. But we also have shortcuts in that, oh, yes, that's a policeman that he's got in uniform, so I need to go and ask him something. So I think that we have to be challenged by our own curiosity. You know, if we don't know what a word means or we want to find more, then explore it. and don't use labels as controls or damaging, use labels as useful. I'm dyslexic, so, you know, I can never remember whether it's ADHD or a, well, I get all the numbers, all the lessons.

But, you know, if I think that something's going wrong with me and I want to have a directive, and just going back to the gender dysphoria, I think I get very upset about labeling kids free puberty as something that they're not, and then surgically changing their body. This is extremely dangerous practice. And we destroy things. That part's good. Actually, we have to have conversations without judgment saying,

I don't understand that. Could you tell me your perspective? Because your perspective on a word, a simple word like collaboration may be different to mine. unless I explore it, and I might come up with a decision that, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I don't really agree with your view, but I honor your perspective. And that's where I work with clients about understanding that difference and diversity is the beauty of nature. You look at nature, you know, all flowers are not the same.

And I think we've lost touch with, we've got so, if you like, academically intelligent and then we become socially predatory and so much hate in the world. We've forgotten what is simple there. And I think the thing is that, you know, I was recently with a friend of mine who's got cancer, you know, then it turns up, you have to deal with what turns up. If you say, well, I don't know where it came from, I must have been terrible of my life, and that's why I got it, then you're on hiding to nothing. as opposed to accepting that something's going on in your body.

And I think people have lost touch with who they are on a very simple level. And to honor and love ourselves is the core point. And not be judged by other people for who we are. And to be kind and loving and harmonious. I think it's a very important point that you raised. we do know something about the human condition. We know that your brain isn't done developing before you're like 25.

And we have said that there are ages of maturation or that you can decide for yourself whether you want to be a part of war, for instance, be a soldier. Once you're 18, then you can do that. But we allow kids who are before puberty to make a decision that, okay, I feel like a different gender than the sex I was born with. And I want to start a process where you use extremely dangerous drugs.

You use, go in and do stuff with the body that's major, have major repercussions. And that is okay. And I'm thinking, what if one of my kids that said, they're all, my youngest daughter is 20. But if dad said, okay, I feel like I'm a different gender, okay, let's explore that. If they had said at the age of, well before puberty, seven, eight,

I want to change my sex. I was at, okay, this is something we have to talk about and think about. And I'm sorry, I don't, I'm not sure if I would have accepted. Because I remember the, the, being confused myself when I was a young kid. I was, I mean, I've always been into girls, but I've been thinking, okay, I've heard about homosexuality. It's something that could also be in me.

And, and we gotta accept that. There is a lot of confusion that comes with growing up. But allowing, I am really, really, really scared. Also because I've seen people who have gone through such a change, and then they have said, oh, I really shouldn't have done that. And that, what you're left with is someone is severely traumatized, who can't have children. And this probably will be also because of this being such a huge,

it has such a huge impact on the body with the hormone blockers and everything. They probably will die quite a bit earlier than otherwise. And I think that's, we really need to talk about it. But you're not allowed to talk about it because that is not politically correct in our climate. You get to like J.K. Rowlands, who are ostracized and attacked for saying what she feels. I think that's rather scary, in my opinion. Either of you think that maybe some of this confusion in the youth or just confusion in society comes from a lack of community, It seems to me like there's been an absence of rites of passage and rituals and, you know, in community and somewhere.

Do you think that might play a part in it? Or do you think there are some other things that may play a part in it as well? I think it is. I mean, you know, you look at the major changes in the world. I was born 1949. So, you know, just after the World War II and the telephone was attached to the wall. And I remember the two meters. So, you know, and I don't want to go backwards.

You know, we've advanced to where we are. But I think valuing history and learning from it, not living in the past, being in the present, I use mobile, I use technology, I use chat CPD. You know, I'm pretty excited about all these changes. But we've got access to huge amount of information without any. understanding, you know, as a parent, I mean, going back to your point, hope, you know, being a teenager, puberty is very confusing. And then, you know, everything is a challenge. But if we look at challenges as a great opportunity,

then I think we can explore it and have those conversations. So I do think we need to change the education systems drastically. And also parenting is help parents. do you understand. I don't mean how to be a parent, but have conversations about parenting. You know, first time I had my son, I got son and daughter. It's never how everybody else tells you.

It's your own experience. But I think in the kind of indigenous tribes and communities of ancient times, there was much more conversation. So we have got a lot of people in the world. We have to cope with that. And I think communities, be they local or national, are not having the conversations they could have about love, kindness, compassion. And it really comes out to that.

Everybody is here for a purpose. How do we embrace everybody with harmony? And it takes time. And I'm not, and again, I don't want to be seen as a feminist or anything, but men have created the current. world and the system is fairly straight-lined and women do everything in a circle. So my passion is to get men and women together talking and say about a joint custody world. If you could start again, how would you create the world? There's a good question.

How would you start at Hawk? Oh, yeah. I would do. I wouldn't go back to your question first. Because I think it's a very important question. It used to be we had our community within the small circles. What Yuri Banfenben then spoke about is the micro system. And now we have extended our circles.

So the important you get your inspiration from outside of our parents or next again, everything and and and because it seems that there's a disconnect would the because we don't talk we are on our cell phones we are inside instagram or tic-tok or chat gt or whatnot and and people especially youngsters they resonate it they find that okay this this is something that works for me this is where i can find my my group my peers And we have moved away from the small communities. And I think that that is a danger because it might seem very tempting when you get into one of those external communities,

whether it's like gender or having worked with people with drug. abusive issues and drug abuse. I've seen that a lot of them, they define a community that I think that this is where I belong, this is where I can find friendship and love and companionship. And then they suddenly they get hit with the truth. They are not interested in me because they want to be with me. They want my money and they want me to buy their drugs. so they want to use me in some way.

And I think it's so important to have the close communities. Your mother and father, your sisters and brothers, all of those are so important. So to get to your second question, or to Colleen's question, how can it start a new world? I see that we are, Us men have done a lot of bad stuff. Toxic masculinity definitely has been a huge issue in our world.

No doubt about it. When I see the patriarchal systems where men get to lead because they are men instead of because they are the most capable of leading, I truly have a huge problem with that. But I've also seen, coming from a background of social work, I've seen the opposite. What happens if it's very female-dominated, then you get the negativity of what I see from you women. Where instead of telling somebody, okay, I think you are a horrible, horrible person. And get lost and really going into that side, you get the best.

backbiting you can get all the gossiping, which is, I'm not saying it's a female phenomenon because also men do use those, but it seems to be more natural rather than having, for many women at least, to have, rather than to have a direct confrontation, you talk about them and you try to put them down and all of those, yeah. So I think what we need is gender balance. We need to see that there's something I see here in Norway. We have pretty good at having gender balance. You know, we had the female prime minister.

We had a lot of, we have laws that regulate, for instance, if you're in, if you have a publicly, what's it called publicly, um, uh, uh, uh, trade company? Yeah,

public trade company. Then you have to have 40% or the board must be female. It's law regarding that. And, and we do have a lot of other stuff that. We, we are very focused on seeing that we need both. And I think

that we come a long way, but I do know that there are so many cultures, so many countries where you are put down because you're a woman. So we need to start seeing the uniqueness of each and to see that, okay, this man might be the best one to be the head of the company, but the actual brain should be her. So they need to work together. So, okay, let's say that we have two CEOs instead of one. We have the, the one who likes to be up on stage and then we have the smarter one who likes to make plans long-term plans and who knows how to to get the missions true so think unity true duality is my point that i think that would be a good start to to get a

better world It seems like a structural problem to me. Like when I look at the multinational corporations, they're based on profit. Profit comes through competition. A competition comes through power. When we look at power dynamics, I mean, if you, any child growing up sees their father, any child lucky enough to have two parents sees their father as someone who is physically stronger. And I don't know how you get that out of a child.

life, like the man is physically stronger in life. And if you grew up in a family, you're probably in a good family. You're probably going to see your father as a strong person. That's conditioned into you. I don't know how you get that away or if you want to get that away, but I think that leads to long-term power dynamics. What do you think, Pauline? Well, the interesting thing about power, and my book is called

The Power of Authentic Harmony. I love it. And that's deliberate because, you know, you think about the power. grid, you plug something in the wall and you know that it's going to work because the electricity power grids makes it work. So it's an acceptable system and if we could put the power of authentic harmony into the world, heart to heart, then we could actually employ all of these energies and we are all energy.

So I think that we've turned power into control and control into corruption and greed. and this idea that we've got to fix everybody. I'm always saying to people, don't fix everybody. You can help them. And there are different characteristics that I study in my archetypes. You know, we have different ways of fixing people. Actually, we don't need to fix anybody. We need to help them understand how they can do it themselves.

This is the conversation of collaboration over severe competition. I don't think we can take a competitive edge out of things. but it's how viciously we do it. So one thing we haven't talked about is values. And the values of how we exist as men and women, as old and young, I'm not the same as a six-year-old woman or my 13-year-old granddaughter or my daughter who's 44. I'm 74.

We have different levels in our generations about what we can do. So I think we have to have to explore this idea of power and strong and strength. It's like I did an article about tough versus tender. You know, it's a good idea to be tough and it's a good idea to be tender and it's situational. So I might need to be tough in a certain situation but not be aggressive. I don't think we understand our behavioral, reactive behavioral essence. We don't teach this at school.

You know, what we do is we teach knowledge, at school instead of valuing experience. We have a PhD in our university in Malaysia who runs the most amazing school because she allows the kids to have 55 minutes of every hour lesson. Now they, the teacher stroke coach because they're not called teachers sets the scene.

And then the kids get very animated and obviously she's helping the 55 minutes be explorative. These kids, by the time they're 10, they're ready to learn knowledge. Whereas we start right at the beginning, shoving knowledge into kids, and then they worry that they're not intelligent because they can't do their times tables, but they're just not adapt to that. I was terrible at languages, but I was very good at mathematics. But I thought I was stupid because I couldn't speak French as well.

It's my sister good. And that's from the education system. So I think it's, for me, it's about changing. the structure of the system. And I recognize that in Norway, you know, you have a really good culture which heads towards balance and equity and all of those things we desire, whereas some nations are still built on a very rigid male system. And, you know, the countries in Africa that I deal with have a very strong gender-based

violence record. That's a cultural norm we need to change. So changing the cultural norm of the whole world. with regards to the balance of men and women is the essence of what I'm passionate about is harmony and unity and synergy doesn't mean we're all the same. I would really honor the uniqueness of human beings. Thank God. Absolutely.

I so agree. it's strange that because I've seen this in the Norwegian education system that it's not there's not a focus on teaching kids how to think critically and to learn how to learn it's so much so focused on this curriculum for instance now it's everything is about STEM And arts, I have a friend Neville Gaon, who talks about you got to get the A into stem. You got to get steam because we need the arts as well. Because that is recognizing that we are all unique.

There are kids who are, like I was horrible with math. I was excellent at languages and history and understanding systems and stuff. But math, that was like my trip tonight. But we need to see that children have different strengths and abilities and use the strengths to build their weaknesses, to give them a feeling of I am actually capable of, there are things that I can handle, whether it's arts or it's math or whatever. And that has been my, in the 20-something years I worked in social work, that is what I've been doing my best to do, to see, okay, okay, you say that you can't, you don't, you are, you are

dyslecting. Okay, so you have problems with, we're remembering, how should words be made up? Okay, well, what are your strengths? Like, one kid I was working with in school, he, he, he, He could not, he did not understand words. He could hardly, he couldn't read anything, hardly anything. He promised speaking. But he could listen to a car and he knew what sort of car it was. And not only that could diagnose, okay, this car has a problem with a carburetor. It's a 1963 model, Ford something with 16.

And then he went to these long discussions told me all about, you know, this is what the, and I was like, wow, you can hear that from the road that's over there. You know, don't you understand how brilliant that is? It was like, well, yeah, that might be a bit special. And I was like, no, it's not a bit special. This is so amazing. And I recognize that it was an issue to him that he had problems with reading and writing. But then to totally go in and say, like, wow, this is so great. I really wish I could have had some of your knowledge when it comes to cars. Because I just drive them.

I don't understand. anything or the range of anything to truly cherish because everybody's got it having worked with i've worked with people who are called disabled uh people who are paraplegic who are multi-handic sitting in wheelchairs being paraplegic or being spastic and where there's no discernible sign of intelligence but even those people, they have a spark, you know, when you connect with them. They have this spark that you can, wow, there is something in there. There is a human being and there's a human being with value.

And to truly see that, see that, that is what we need more of. Yes. Well, I just want to pick up this because this is absolutely cool to what we're talking about. Every baby, as they're born, they have natural. gifts. They don't know because when they're born, they don't have all the facility to talk and walk and that. And if only parents, and if I'd understood that earlier, every child has natural gifts. And I work with my client's son, say, what are your natural gifts? And you didn't learn them at school. You didn't learn them from your parents. They were the things that you had that aren't teachable now. They're the natural gift of being more extrovert or introvert. or being good at something. You know, what were the natural skills? My husband's a musician,

and he saw a piano when he was four, and he knew how to play it, not because he's very auditory, and when he hit a note, he said, right, that's the same as that. So he started putting it together. I had a natural gift to create shapes. I love geometry, as it turned out,

but it was a natural gift. And I think that if we tap into the natural gifts of every human person and we allow them to accelerate those at school. We change the school system to adapt to that. We will change the trajectory of the world and yes, girls might do something different to boys

but we would allow kids to actually blossom like you do a plant. So you seed a plant by watering it or putting it in the right place. So in our university with entrepreneurship, we say it's about knowledge, experience and

imagination. So we do need some knowledge. I need to know that's a three and that's the five and that's the six. But my experience with maths is what I'd use to apply it. And imagination is what creates everything that is creative in the world. Einstein said that imagination is more important than knowledge because knowledge is limited. And imagination is infinite. If we just put that into education system, I believe we could change the way our kids express themselves. And then they wouldn't get trapped into all this confusion bit when they're, when they're heating puberty, it wouldn't be about changing their body structure. It would about being having excited conversations about crazy ideas.

Yeah. I love it. We have to change the system to allow the flowers to grow. and put the right soil down and the right conditions. Sometimes I think it's not a bug, it's a feature. You know, when you look at the Pavlovian style of teaching in the West where you have an authoritarian figure stand up there and they're trained by bells and whistles

and forced to ask for permission to go to the bathroom, like you are training the imagination right out of them. This person is, you know, disrupting class. Yeah, that's boring for them. They don't need to be there, you know, but it seems that on some level we're training people to be obedient workers. Like just smart enough to read all the directions, but not smart to start challenging things. What do you think about that?

On some level, isn't that the movement of the Prussian school system to the West? I got to say something about it. I remember reading an article about the English Barbies. and there was one thing that struck me was that they had this they had to take a cognitive test and IQ test

and if they scored above I believe it was 120 or something then they couldn't they weren't accepted it was exactly what you're saying George

they were too clever for that role and that's like so stupid I mean you can I think

both It goes both ways. I mean, I've been a member of Ramosa for 30 years. So I met a lot of smart people, many of them, so much more smart than I am. And what I'll see is they all need to find a place. If you are not cognitively gifted, but you are a hard worker and you have a goal, and this is, oh, I want to do this, I want to do this. Then you work hard and you get it.

And I'm like, I'm, yeah, the way I pick up on things pretty easily. I'm not very fond of having to read eight hours a day to get a PhD in something. That's not my way. But we are all different. And truly to see that and to let people, like you say, Pauline blossom. That is so necessary. it's oh we need it so so badly since i'm going to be in i have to be in school and 20 minutes and that's when we start it's it's it's so extremely clear to me that we do have a major issue

with with our schools and i see it even in the university college where i'm studying uh and shall well for our work it's you have to follow you have to write your papers using APA 7 and you have to always reference others if you come up with some of your own ideas wow how do you reference yourself well I'd like to explain why I on my screen it says PhD is most notice they are capital letters this is not an academic PhD and this has 50 years of This is not new. The founder of our university, he's passed now, my father-in-law.

He was a genius, and he was an entrepreneur. Before entrepreneurs were really entrepreneurs, and before he became anything academic, and he fought the academic system when he got in there, and he said, you can't be academic about being an entrepreneur. It's about experience. And that's where the knowledge, experience, and imagination came from. So it's a professional hired doctorate in all you do in your life,

that is what you express creatively. So Richard Branson, Elon Musk, you know, Tom, you know, all sorts of people who have created huge industries of excited people. So all the small entrepreneurs, yes, but all the entrepreneurs who actually create job spaces, that's what we're looking for. And this is different to the corporations. Although you could say that Henry Ford was an original entrepreneurologist because he created something that wasn't there before. And that's really what we want in the world. We want to think about using our imagination.

And then when it becomes very much something that we think is always going to be here, keeping it fresh, keeping it new, keeping it ideas, what's beyond, not doing it by road, not doing it right, but asking the right questions. And that's what, not everybody will be an entrepreneur, but we need that fiery creative energy that persuades steep jobs

that he could create something that wasn't there. That's the opportunity. And if we dumb down the kids, we're going to miss all those opportunities. And it's a foolish waste of amazing natural gifts. I agree Did you say you had to go Are you headed into class?

Yeah, I got a class Starts a quarter past nine My time So it's in 20 minutes But I can I want to stay here a bit longer Yeah I wish I didn't have to

It's compulsory Class So I have to write a paper If I don't go But I can say a bit longer. I think it's, because this is so important.

This conversation, and it ties in with UNESCO. They recently received or released this about paper, about paper, it's agreement, about education. And one of the things

that I really picked up on was that we should teach children to be critical, critical thinkers, to to truly help them shine their light. That's how I perceive a critical thinker. That's someone who does, just like what you said, Pauline, they ask questions.

Yes. I'm a doctor of divinity myself in an American online church called ULC. And that was kind of one thing is I truly, resonated with their message because they talk about the unity of all the different religions and faiths. What are there? What is the foundation? And to me, it's all about love. That is what I see in all the different faith groups.

But I also like the idea, okay, I won't have a doctorate. So I got that. because we are so easily swayed by titles. You know, it's, and titles or designations or whatever, I'm a doctor or medicine. Oh,

so you've got to listen to me. And you can talk about things that aren't really related to you feel at all, that you know nothing about, but you still talk with authority. I am a doctor of medicine or philosophy or whatnot. And I think we should see that we should listen to what people are saying and go from there. That does.

Is there a foundation in their words? Does it resonate? Do you feel that this is authentic and genuine and comes from a good place? do they want to, they're talking about politics, for instance, do they want to change the world for something better, or are they in it for the money and the power and everything that comes with it? I think it's so essential that we start to see the uniqueness

in our shared humanity and see everybody as something unique. I so agree. And I think one of the simple ways to do this is whatever we listen to in a magical conversation, it's without judgment, without anger, and without coercion. If we hear things that we actually don't necessarily resonate with, we can say, well, actually, that's a really interesting perspective. It's a very simple way of acknowledging somebody.

We don't have to say, well, I disagree with you, do, la, la. You say, well, it's a really interesting perspective. It allows us to open up the possibilities. And that's what we need is we know to think about possibilities and opportunities. There's millions and millions of opportunities, but a lot of people feel that nothing is possible. That's when they go down the rabbit hole. And I want to open them up because everybody has natural gifts.

We have to honour that and allow people to be magically who they are. on. Exactly. How does that move into peace? We had spoken a little bit before our conversation about peace being possible. Now, that's an interesting perspective. What, who wants to start up with that one? Okay. I spoke with a friend yesterday about that, exactly that question.

What she said that, well, what came from that talk? That was really, because she, started talking about how we speak heart to heart, we resonate. She started with the peace within. And then I changed the perspective, and I thought, how could, let's say that I was sitting in a talk with two enemies, whatever they may be, for instance, very, something that's very, in the media now,

someone from Hamas and someone from Israel in leadership position. How could I make them talk together? And I had to think of it a bit and then I thought okay what I would do is I would

ask them, do you have any songs that are common for you? That you both like. And I'm sure I would find one that would both really enjoy whether it's new or whatever.

Okay, then let's sing a bit. Or you can play an instrument. If you play an instrument, you play an instrument. Start to find a connection in something that's external and move from there into sea. So that they can see that, okay, we are both human beings. We are actually not only our roles as Hamas and Israel friendly, whatever, we are human beings and then move on from there.

And as you say, also to have a talk where after that, say, okay, no, you get three minutes each. You get to say whatever you want in three minutes. Then the other one's turn, you're not allowed to stop them or to do anything. You have to listen. Then you can talk together. But you've got to have an open dialogue first. I think that would. I would agree totally.

It's finding that commonality. And I mean, the base commonalities were both human beings. And, you know, if I stop breathing, I'll be dead. And if you stop breathing, you'll be dead. I mean, let's get bound to some very simple things. And I agree with you, Paul, you know, there was a march in Jerusalem last week with Jewish women and Palestinian women together. So the women would come in to get to the same, we don't want this. It's how to we find the commonality.

So can we find peace, which is no conflict? At the moment we've got conflict, there will never be peace. but we are actually all human beings living on the planet together and it's really challenging that as you say and also at a very simple level I mean now we've got this cease far it's like all the pictures we saw in World War I and two where they stopped for Christmas and held out and celebrate

and then went back and shot each other and I'm going that doesn't make sense but it's about our core belief Isn't it? Core belief and values. And the more we can talk about, you know, a lot of people talk about love, but we need to share what does love mean? That's what I said to you guys, you know,

what does peace actually mean when you've had a traumatic life? You have to let go of that trauma and forgive the unforgivable. Because at the moment, there's lots of seemingly unforgivable acts going on. But if we have a core agreement that we do actually forgive the unforgivable, And this comes from work in indigenous tribes. There's a wonderful book called Four Sacred Gifts, which talks about this. And forgiving the unforgivable is the starting point of how we can move forward in the world. But we've got to really mean it and find out what is commonly held together.

And say the baseline is that we're humans and we breathe the same air. We've got to be back to basics and then go forward. To understand, well, that's an interesting perspective. It's not the same as mine, but I honor your perspective. How can we get these warring nations to understand that? So for me, it's really about why is there such a driver to control somebody else, to eliminate somebody else? And that's really what needs tackling.

I got a book at Lincoln somewhere. I could find link on M.Ansion.1, I believe. I was so pleased I got to use a short story by a guy called Andy Weir, called the Egg. And that is such a beautiful story where he talks about, we are all

we are one. And that is the whole concept of his story, that we are Hitler, we are militaries, we are all of the characters that occur in life.

To me that says something about, if you look at your NMA and you see that I could have been you, I could have been in your position. If I had grown up in Palestine or in Iraq or Afghanistan or

wherever, then I could have been in your position and then see that are shared that experiences they they change us and sometimes you have got to do what you got to do it's all in the context i think that's it's really really necessary to if you're able to like what one of my guiding lives is my understanding Jesus. And when it talks about turning the other cheek, to me it's about taking a pause and seeing the other and saying, okay, you can do whatever you want. I'm still strong within myself. I agree. No, I got a go. I'm sorry. I don't want to go. I don't want to go. I don't want to go to girl.

Well, we just have to have a revisit. Yeah. Absolutely. A splendid conversation. On some level, I wonder, though, isn't it easy for us? Like, if you see your wife and your children murdered in front of you and you're starving, you know, and you see a group of people that have you've been told stories about for generations. Like, it's got to be a whole other world in that aspect.

That's got to be one of those cases where you'd have to be in that situation before you could really see if you stood up for those values, right? Like, I don't know what decision I would make if I was in that position. If you saw your child die because of a roadside bomb or something like that or picked off by a sniper, right? Why don't you continue the conversation? I'll answer very briefly, and then you two continue, please. I want to see this. I would have defended.

I am a warrior. I am aware of my role. That is the role I've had, a warrior for children, a warrior for those who doesn't have a voice. So I would go in and defended my family or whatever person I needed to defend in an asymmetrical relationship. No doubt about it. And I would use, I've done there, I've been there, I've done it many times. I'm pretty good at martial arts. So I know how to defend others and myself.

And I've got a huge dog who is trained in as a bodyguard. so there's a lot of specialized training I would use whatever I was necessary to defend those I define within my circle and those are just about everybody who happens to be within my circle so that is my response

I gotta go thank you very much Paulian and thank you George I really appreciate the chance to talk and it's been so fun yeah fantastic Thank you. Godless.

Thank you. Pauline, do you still have some more time? I just was reflecting on that last point and then we can close this. But I think defending our own position and defending everything that we love is important that we protect. And if we have to use force,

then, but that's different to going out and creating chaos. You know, when a war is started by an aggressive movement, that's different to defending and protecting what is ours. So a degree of strength and even, you know, physical violence when it's protecting what is precious to you, that is part of us being humans and being, as I say, protect us, I think that is okay. But what is challenging in the world is this aggressive process of taking over something else by force. And that's true of war, obviously, and rape

and domestic violence and corporate violence. Any violence is taking something away from somebody else. And that's different to protecting or, you know, doing something proactive to assure safety, wouldn't you agree? Yeah. I want to agree, but I think it's more complicated than that. Like I think that people that go out and take from other people aren't, there's clearly psychopaths out there, but I think that on some level, if you look at nationalism or, you know, tribalism,

people find really extravagant reasons to take resources from other people. And they don't really label themselves as the aggressors. They see themselves, like, here's a good example. If a firefighter fights fires and a crime fighter fights crime, what is a freedom fighter fight? You know, freedom, a freedom fighter is someone on the opposite side of the border than you. But to them, they're fighting for freedom, the same way a terrorist is a terrorist. So, like, I, and propaganda is so good. You know, I don't know.

it's difficult to drill down in what looks like someone as the aggressor like if you take the Israel Palestine for example it seems to me that if you were to follow the Geneva Convention then your attack of a person should be in proportion to that attack

doesn't seem to me that one of the most well-financed and incredible armies in the world is taking on you know it's a real David Goliath but it's it's flipped around in a sort of way right there but that is me with a very surface knowledge of what happened i don't thoroughly understand sykes pico and all these things that happened before like i don't know that so i'm sure it goes back how many how many Palestinian prisoners are there for these hostages over here the story goes deep and i as much as i want to pontificate i i don't

I don't have all the facts, you know. I don't know. And I don't want to weasel out of it. But at the same time, I don't know I'm qualified to talk about it. What do you think? Well, I agree. Because I'm very, I'm very anti-violence, anti-war. I don't understand why it even stopped.

But it goes back, as you say, to control, you know, borders. But could we have a borderless world? Probably not because we need some kind of containers. Boundaries and borders are important. is whether we impose them and restrict people. So when you look at immigration and the floods of change across the world, maybe that's a necessary flow, but it's our activity when we're in situ in saying,

well, this is mine and I'm going to defend it, or I'm going to go and take that person's goods because I think I should have them. I mean, again, this all comes back to how do we live as human beings and can we understand harmony? And then look at ownership. look at individual talents, who does what best. That's what I'm looking at.

I don't understand the absolute use of violence to take somebody else's life, for sure. That seems so use, I mean, it's such a waste of life. It goes against the fact that we are here to breathe. You know, once that life has gone, it's gone forever. So I agree with you. I don't really know what the true facts are. And the challenge you've got today is I don't know that we can ever really know what's really going on because we can't necessarily trust media and we can't trust the information sources.

And we have to go back to core and think about how would we like this world to be. That's where I go to a world of harmony and love and ability to work together to solve the things that really need solving. and creating, you know, stability and social justice, but also creativity. I mean, everything is energy, George. So at the end of the day, how do we value that? But, you know, you and I, we could go on talking forever, but life has to go on. So I think we should revisit this when it's right. And I would love to do that.

I agree. I really appreciate your time, and I really appreciate the articles you're writing. I enjoy reading them and I enjoy thinking and I really enjoy the conversation today. Before I let you go, though, where can people find you? And what do you have coming up and what are you excited about? Well, they can find me on LinkedIn. I'm very much there. I do appear on Instagram and Facebook, but really LinkedIn is the best place.

My corporate heart international is my corporate business. And the International University of Entrepreneur is a go-to place if you're an entrepreneur to get your PhD, capital PhD. And my book, The Power of Authentic Harmony, is available on Amazon. And it will be out in French very shortly. I've got a French translation. I'm not a French speaker, but I'm assured that my translator is very good. And in order to have harmony in the world, I want to have it in many languages,

so it will come out next year in Spanish and whatever language we need in the world. but I'm very excited about the idea of really getting men and women together. So I have a world wisdom circle which runs every second Wednesday of the month. I will send you the link. George, I'll expect you there. And we discuss how do we stop what we don't want? How do we continue what we're doing well? And how do we start something totally different, which is a world of harmony?

So that's what I'm excited about and really shifting and shaping the world for better. I love it. So ladies and gentlemen, check out the book. Go down to the show notes. Check out the links down there. And that's all we got for today. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for hanging out with us today. Pauline, hang on briefly afterwards. I'll speak to you briefly afterwards. But to everyone listening and watching, thank you so much. I hope you have a beautiful day. That's all we got. Aloha. Thank you.