TrueLife - Mark Rose - The Drug War; Yesterday & Yoday

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/https://www.markarose.substack.com/I am Mark Rose activist, in 2009 I helped shaped what would become the Cannabis Industry in Colorado, by opening one of the first medical cannabis dispensaries, also testifying on behalf of patient rights at the State Capitol and working directly with State lawmakers. I have been interviewed in High Times, Rolling Stone, Denver Post, WSJ, & New York Times. I was involved with the distribution of Cannabis since I was a kid and continued that in a big way after I moved to Colorado, I realized the hypocrisy of cannabis laws and worked hard to change them. I am now in the process of starting a new company.I have gone through Ketamine therapy which has changed my life for the better. I have suffered from severe PTSD, and Bipolar since I was a child and traditional medicines never worked. While with just 6 shots of Ketamine, my symptoms were improved to a point of being almost gone. My first LSD experience was in 1972 and ever since I wanted others to be able to experience what I had. I have been through the opioid epidemic; after I fell 150 ft., and was one of the first patients given oxycontin and luckily survived that addiction so many do not, psychedelics helped me break those chains. Just like when I spoke about Cannabis at the State Capital in Colorado or in the press back in 2009 when we were fighting for our rights to use Cannabis- it's the same with Psychedelics: I speak from experience and my heart, people need to know it is safe and effective and I aim to make that happen. I was also involved in the movement to shut down Rocky Flats who made plutonium triggers for the nuclear weapons industry in Colorado in the early 80s.I have worked in Healthcare;Cardiopulmonary, EMT-I, registered polysomnography Technologist in the very early days of sleep medicine. I have also owned several businesses. I also was a delegate for Bernie Sanders in 2016. I grew up in the rust belt town of Toledo Ohio, I left in 1978 to join the United States Air Force's MedicalSquadron, I then came to Boulder Colorado, lived mostly in or near my beloved Nederland Colorado. I also spent some time in Bellingham, Washington & Yellowstone. I have been to Russia, Thailand, Malaysia, Germany, Holland, Tajikistan, and fished just over the border in Northern Afghanistan. Active every election because I feel it is my civic duty.Currently I am looking into starting a business that involves Iboga therapy. I am currently employed at JM Smuc I became disabled from a severe inflammatory reaction from the Moderna vaccine that damaged my AV node, but my health is improving everyday. One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphene. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. A little about a grammar later, just to get going. Well, that's right. Yeah, I microdosed daily. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen.

Actually, I had ketamine shot yesterday, my month of ketamine. shot and so I'm feeling pretty good but I still have some pains but at least I know where they come from now. That's right. I'm off of medicine. Yeah. Yeah. Well, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast.

I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I got a great show for you today. The one only Mark Rose, activist for cannabis, psychedelic law reforms, entrepreneur, founder of grateful meds. But beyond all of that, he's someone that embodies. the spirit of activism. And I think in the world today, like I know myself, I look up to you, and I see the things that you've done. And I see the strategies that you use. And I think that the world we're in today, especially in the psychedelic scene, is really missing a little flavor of that.

And that's why I want to reintroduce you to maybe some of the new kids coming up that may be looking for an avenue. Maybe some of the kids that didn't fit in or are looking for an avenue or see some injustice out there, see some, you know, want to. to push back a little bit. Like, I think that's a big part of this movement, and I think that you're a big part of that mark in your career. And so I just kind of wanted to throw it to you to maybe introduce yourself and just ask you how you doing, man.

Thanks for being here. Yeah, I'm Mark Rose. I'm doing very well. I just had a ketamine injection yesterday. So, you know, I'm doing great. I guess I grew up in Toledo, Ohio, called Rust Bell Town. I left there about

1978 to join the force and it went to the medical squadron but I got arrested for four flakes of marijuana and got picked out. They didn't find the pound. And then I came to Boulder.

And when I was young in the 70s in Toledo, my cousins were a lot older. So they were kind of hippies. And so I was turned on to that life at an early age and was very interested around 8, 9, 10. I was reading stuff about Leary, all that, you know. And then one time in it was 1972, I was watching the news with my parents. And they said, oh, don't go to Cullen Park. It's a literal drug stuff. of marijuana and da-da-da-da-da.

I excused myself and got on my bike and he drove out to Colin Park, rode out to Colin Park. I love it. You know, I was a paper boy. So I was looking for some marijuana. And I went up to this car that was from Michigan. And I said, hey, you guys got any marijuana? No, but we have orange sunshine.

And I said, what's that? And they go LSD 25. How much will $30 give me? And they just poured it into my hands. And I was like, and we experienced, I experienced that with friends. And a lot of them didn't have a positive experience from it. Maybe they just weren't ready. I don't know.

We were very young. I got to say that. Maybe too young for some people. But for me, being a survivor of sexual abuse as a kid, holding a lot of trauma, generational trauma over and over, you know, LSD, mescaline, things like that, it helped me to cope. I was happy, you know. And before that, you know, I had psychiatrists experiment in my brain at 10 years old. And every time I've ever taken a medication from a psychiatrist, it is flipped me out. And that happened to me just recently because I was trying to obtain Eska Kedekedip.

And the FDA, their wisdom, you know, says, oh, you can't prescribe that without also prescribing an SSRI medication. So, you know, they were putting me on an SSRI, so I get approved for escapatamine, so I could kind of microdose between the peaks and valleys of the ketamine. And that just flew me out of my mind, and it's taken me about three months to regain that. And that's the problem. with psychiatry, in my opinion, is their experiment on it. It's constant. And there's so many natural medicines to help us. You know, and, you know, when I, when I worked in medicine,

the first, you know, no doctor, it's technologists, that sort of thing. But the first thing you're always taught is the patient knows their body the best. You know, you just need to get a good history out of them. But medical world seems to have forgotten that. My last job was, you know, basically keeping mental health patients holds from escaping an emergency room. And I took that job kind of like just to see what was going on in the hospital world. And because I had been on of it for about 10, 15, 20 years maybe. And I was appalled. I was appalled the lack of compassion, the lack of compassion. And injecting him with these drugs that just made them worse.

And when every one of them, you know, I can't believe that they're coming in suicidal. Why not give them a shot of ketamine? It takes away 100% suicidal ideations. It helps with depression 80% of the time. You know, these people could be walking out cured, not cured, but helped. Right. And because you always need, you know, the aftercare, the integration, all that. And which is something I'm just learning myself.

And but, you know, I got to get, I got to get big props to the, the brotherhood of eternal love. That I consider bodhisattas slash smugglers. And I think, thank these guys so much. I thank them so much because they were responsible for my first psychedelic experience. And, you know, they try to turn on the world. And we wouldn't be here without them today with the psychedelic renaissance. But, you know, because they don't have degrees or they don't have this or that, they're being overlooked. And their wisdom is so great.

And I think it's a shame. I just think it's a shame. And, you know, I also want to give a shout out to my daughter. I'm going to be going to her graduation here out in Hayward. She's coming at chiropractor, specializing in women's health. So, anyway. Oh, yeah. And I'd like to acknowledge Tina Turner.

She rested power. I've never seen a, she's got to be. the most greatest example of a transformation of a human being in my lifetime. I am not kidding. You know, going from sexual abuse, getting shot at, all that crap, you know, to becoming a Buddhist and being peaceful with it at the end. I listen to her sing sutras every morning. I didn't know she did that. That's amazing. She does.

Brad. Yeah. She's got several. several videos on that. And, you know, and that's just it. You know, a lot of people,

some people can get there without psychedelics. And he can't. But they're just a tool in the tool belt. You know? And, and, you know, my motivation is the same when it was with cannabis. Back in 2009 or whatever,

when I started going down to legislature and talking. whatever. You know, it's an injustice, man, to keep this stuff illegal. It's just an injustice. And, you know, this country grew from the very beginning.

The very beginning. Brought it back in World War I, brought it back in World War II. You know, what is the deal, man? And then with psychedelics, they were, you know, Bill W. from alcoholics anonymous was advocating the use of LSD in the 1950s to cure alcoholics. I, you know, there's so much wisdom that we have lost.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's all true on the topic of Tina Turner, simply the best, right? I mean, she said it herself. Absolutely. The, the brotherhood, you know, what an amazing story. of which most people will only remember the words orange sunshine. But, you know, I'm sure that there's some, you know, storytellers around that could talk about some of the transformations that happened.

And they themselves were like a trip. Like, they were the trip that changed people. They were the vehicle sort of, right? Like, there were spiritual warriors. They were spiritual warriors. And, you know, I'm in contact with one of them, but quite frequently. Actually, I just bought a signed poster off of them. I've seen them.

Yeah. Yeah, you know, but, and I'm just amazed, man, that these people's wisdom is just being overlooked. And it's got to do with corporate greed. And that's what it's about. And I'm really afraid that the psychedelic sense, is going to turn in to what the cannabis scene turned into, which is a lot of pump and dump schemes, people losing a lot of money,

oversaturated market, and boom, you know, a lot of dreams turn into nightclines. Maybe you could talk about some of the similarities that you see. Maybe we should start out first with, let's talk about what happened in the cannabis scene, because you were there,

you were some of the, you were on the ground floor when a lot of people came together and we're, you know, maybe even trying to start a monopoly down there. Maybe you can start at the beginning there about the cannabis scene, and then you can walk it into what's happening with psychedelics today and what's similar about it. I can tell you my story. Sure, I love it.

I started, you know, I've smuggled cannabis my whole life and sold it. I, you know, at 17, I was going down to Florida running a bagos back to my cousin. You know, after the Air Force, when I came to Bull, older, I fell into this crazy, crazy organization where, like, you know, and travel on all across the country. That was my gig. And even when I started, you know, regular jobs, when I take a vacation, that's what I did. And, but then legalization happened, or no, when called legalization. Yeah, the constitutional amendment.

I think it was Amendment 22. And that went into effect in 2001. But it was pretty underground at that time. People were growing. You know, you had to know somebody. You had to get this license. There was one place to get it. And it was an older doctor.

Forgive me, I forget her name, but she was so wonderful. And she was out at Westminster. And it was a group out of Oregon that began that. And then, you know, I was a great. growing for people and doing my thing, you know, as I usually do. And then two other dispensaries popped up. One in Colorado Springs, one in Boulder. And I grew for the one in Boulder.

And, you know, and they were doing a great job and everything. But then we had this meeting down in Denver, high-rise in Denver and Boyer's office. the guys that passed Amendment 64 were there, representatives, I imagine, for the legislature, about 30 of us growers, you know, basically creating, you know, they could have arrested us on a RICO charge, man. We were conspiring to grow all the cannabis for Colorado. And they wanted to make a monopoly.

And I said, I objected. And there was another thing involved, too. They were bummed out about my past because, you know, we all submitted our rest records and this and that. You know, I got set up in the 80s, man. You know, I got set up like a bowling pin. I'm not kidding. And then I got busted again, you know, driving through Nebraska one time. But, you know, such as life.

And but so they were kind of like, oh, you know, what do you got to give to this? And what did you? I go, you know, then they're like, are you adverse to money? I go, no. No, I'm not adverse to money, but I'm adverse to injustice. And they said, what the hell are you going to do about it? I said, you'll see. And the very next week I opened up Grateful Meds in the Netherlands, Colorado.

And then started debate in Boulder County's DA through the front page. and then that turned into more, you know, press, which turned into bigger press. And, you know, it just grew and grew interviews in high times, you know, mention in Rolling Stone, that kind of stuff, you know. And, you know, a lot. But the problem was I was the only dispensary owner that was down there fighting for patients right. Oh, no, I can't say that. There was Josh Stanley who created Charlotte's Web. And actually, he asked me to partner up with him

because we were kind of on opposite sides on like regulations and stuff. I wasn't big on the greed factor, you know? And I turned it down, you know? And, you know, and they kind of won that side, you know. where, you know, our regulations didn't. Before that, because how it ran, at first, it was a caregiver system. So you had to have, you know, people would write over a caregiver slip. You know, I had hundreds of people, you know, maybe even weren't hundreds.

Because I had people coming from Durango, all corners of the state, man. Because what I was doing, I had pretty much everybody in the town of Netherlands growing cannabis for. And so I had a hundred strains at one point on my shelves. People would just come to see it or sign Grateful Dead guitar. You know, it was crazy. And it was a fun time. But, you know, the state decided on the model instead of sharing the wealth, they decided on vertical integration, which goes back to Henry Ford,

where you own everything. You know, everybody seed to sale. Got a track at seed to sale. Which cuts out a lot of side businesses, you know, in the beginning. And then, of course, they voted to kick me out. And I think about a thousand other people that had similar records, you know, and, you know, Claire Lovie, she was head of the Senate Act on. I can still, I consider her a friend today.

Even though she voted against me then, she called me two years later. She said, Mark, we fixed it and get back in now. I'm like, well, Claire, all this regulation and stuff like that, you know, you got a million bucks to lend me? And she's like, I'm so sorry, Mark. And I go, you know, maybe someday I'll call in a favor. Yeah. She's like, she's my county commissioner now. But a good person, great person.

And the vertical integration thing, you know, what that did is it just created, you know, the pioneers that came in that really were doing the work, they all got bought out or went out of business. Big money, bigger money came in. Now even bigger money's come in, and soon it'll be pharmaceutical, tobacco, you name it, for your companies. it's going to happen. And I hate to see it. I really do. Yeah, that's the model that, you know, it's this form of centralization. And, you know, it's, I don't know, it's almost sometimes like the very seeds of destruction

are planted in the creation of it. You know what I mean? And it's interesting because do you see some similar patterns now that you've been through that and not only been through it and seen it, but participated in it? Now we're seeing this next wave of like psilocybin, which is similar to cannabis in a lot of ways and that it's relatively cheap to grow and there's not a whole lot of regulations around it. And there's already this cannabis model that a lot of money interested have found ways to, you know, get their hooks in or manipulate or change. Do you see something similar that could happen to like the psilocybin or the psychedelic industry? I absolutely do. And if it does, it's going to be a disaster.

You know, it needs to be done correctly. You know, right now in Colorado, we can share psilocybin with each other at cost. That's, it's our right now. DMT, masculine, aboga, which, by the way, I went through the whole opiate thing. I fell 150 feet off a Navajo Peak in Colorado. Made a wrong move. My friends say 500, but I kind of tumbled like bow-winkle down this avalancheat.

And luckily, my pack cut a rock and stopped me before I was going off this thousand-foot cliff into the watershed. I literally saw my life flashing, you know, my eyes, that sort of thing. wound up, you know, getting surgery, all that stuff. At first, I was getting rough, chiropractics, maybe a little bit of lore set for the pain. But then my DO retired because him and his wife broke up, right? So he just, he went and had to get himself together.

one of the best doctors I've ever known, Nathan Joseph's. And anyway, they put me on, I went to a pain clinic, which as a doctor I worked with at Boulder Community Hospital. And I was probably one of the first patients put on oxycodone. And I didn't realize how badly it's affected my life for a long time. as far as anger, as far as a lot of different things. I've just given all these medications that now I realize that I'm off opiates. I was given them to treat the side effects of opiates. And, you know, opiates have their place.

But let me tell you, for anybody out there who's like on methadone or Suboxone or anything like that, because I was and had to go into hospital. They're going to treat you like crap, my friends. They're going to treat you like crap. And the other thing is they're going to under-medicate because all your opiate receptors are screwed up. So you've got to get off this stuff. And that's why what I did is I'm involved with the Purdue lawsuit,

bank, you know, their deal. They appeal. I'm also involved with the melon cry. pharmaceutical lawsuit, they did not appeal. So I'm waiting on a settlement. I plan to use that money to start in a Bogia treat here in Colorado if I can. And do it right because, you know, there needs to be medical monitoring. You've got to have screening.

You know, ACLS training, therapist, a lot of aftercare. So it's going to take a bit. but nobody else will do it because there's no money you see because you know it takes a lot of time to go through this you know and sure you can fly down to Mexico you go up to Canada and pay 10 grand whatever like I want to give it to the people that need it you know that can't afford you know even if I have to give it to it free yeah that's interesting like how how do you set up a model like that though like how i mean is there a way to to i think a lot of people would would agree with you that the people that need some of the psychedelic medicine the most the people that can't afford it

correct how have you any ideas of how to you know orchestrate a plan to get the people that need it the medicine what do you think well for one there's been an undergrubre ground Ibrahimagane community, which is derived from Aboga since the 1960s, late 60s. So it's not like it's not around. It's just we've got to bring it to the surface. It's like when I told back at the state legislator, which cannabis, I said, you know, let it, you know, there's this billion dollar industry that's under the table. you know, let us bring it above the table, give you your cut, and come out of the shadows and be the good citizens that we really are.

And it's the same thing. It's the same thing, man. You know, why are we being judged to just trying to feel better? I don't get it. And this drug war, you know, my cousin spent almost 16 years, I think. You know, I got another cousin that. that spent six over six six Sets LSD that I gave them. That's some heavy karma.

Yeah. You know? And I feel so bad for him. But, you know, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? You know, and it's just because of the laws are so different in each state. You know, if he would have got busted out in Colorado, they probably would have just laughed it off, you know?

but here out in Ohio, you know, six years in prison because he was in the wrong county. Yeah, you know, there's a war on drugs, but there's not a war on poverty. There's a war on drugs, but there's not a war on community. You know, it does seem to me that if people, and I think Colorado, Oregon, Canada, like, these places are beginning to be sort of a beacon of light because I think the states are starting to say, wow, we can really generate some revenue from here. But there's pushback too. If the pharmaceutical industry is an industry,

you could make the argument that addiction is an industry. In my opinion, I think there's a lot of people that see the addiction model as a, you know, just it's like a conveyor belt. The person gets better and they get back on. Oh, you can't have any drugs at all. Here's a little bit. You're back on it. Absolutely.

Right. You get someone with Iboga. All of a sudden, you can wipe them. You can take them out of there. But there's a lot of money to interest that want people on that treadmill. It's creepy. Absolutely. I went through a rehab.

Yeah, maybe you can show that. One of the first ones in Boulder, it was called a day at a time. I was working at Rudy's Bakery, who honored Swami Rooder Nanda. And, you know, I went to and these people, they had the most, I always thought they were high on acid because they just had love in their eyes all the time. And I went to this guy and I said, man, you know, I got this problem with cocaine.

He hugged me and took all that fucking pain and put me into a rehab paid for it. And, you know, went through it. And it was just a joke. And, you know, and then I tried it at another time. And I told him, you know, I went in. This is a good story. I went in and I literally freaked out of my mind like psychosis, right?

I walk right up to the psych ward. I ring the bell and they go, yes. I go, let me in. I got a gun. Let me in. That's so crazy. I got a gun. And I did.

And suddenly, you know, the security comes and they let me in. And he says, well, can I have your gun? I said, absolutely. I don't want it. I said, I'm just fucking scared. Yeah. I need help. And then they asked me from my insurance.

Oh, it's Anthem. I didn't have insurance. So three days, they come to me again. Mark, you don't have it. Oh, shit. Must have been this one. Yeah. You know, a couple more days.

Then you come again. Mark, you don't have, must have this. Oh, no, man. And I go, you know what? I go, you know what? I don't even care. It's been seven days. I'm back to myself. I'm healthy. I'm in my right mind. And you people are no better than the cocaine dealers. You're making a profit off of people's freaking misery. And I truly believe that. I truly believe that. Yeah. I think there's good people that are trapped. Like on both sides, some of the people that have an addiction are trapped. And I think that there's, there's professional. professionals that have maybe never done drugs before, but are trying to help people with drugs. And so they believe all the propaganda that was taught to them. They probably have a big heart and are like, oh, man, I got to help this person.

I'm doing the right thing. But they're not. Yeah, go ahead. I agree. Because, you know, like with the people that are being trained right now in MDMA therapy, part of that to become that, they have to take MDMA and experience it. Yeah. And I think that should be true with anybody that's guiding anybody in the psychedelic,

that they need to be experienced with it so they can explain what's going to happen to this person. And to explain that, you know, you can have a bad trip, but or a really good trip. It's all in your mind. It's like the way you take it, man. And set in setting, it's so important, you know. you know, I'm usually more comfortable with it out in the nature woods or with family at a grateful dead concert. Yeah, there's something to be said about, you know, who you're surrounded by. And I think that that is that it's a good metaphor because you're set in setting can not only influence your experience on a trip,

but it also experiences the way you move through life. Like if we look back at our times and we were at our worst, we were probably around people that were probably pretty not that good, you know, or we were in a bad spot in our life, or we were living with a toxic roommate or, you know, we were in a bad set and setting. So I think that that method is something that transfers throughout life, whether you're taking a trip on mescaline, LSD, mushrooms,

or you're taking a trip to Hawaii, you know, it's that set and setting. Well, here's the thing. I was not always a good person. I, you know, do well. Sure. Through my teenage years, I was happy man because, you know, musclans around, acid, this, that. I'm medicating myself.

And then suddenly it disappeared. Cocaine came on the scene. Me and my cousin basically were given a pickle jar full of cocaine. by the Colombians as a gift. Within two years, three years, we were broke. We lost everything. They also robbed this one. We got a big load.

Luckily, we sold most of it. But they had hired a crew from Detroit to come down and rob us. And literally, I had 45 at the back of my ear at 16 years old. And I watched my cousin's sister's teeth. get kicked out across the room because she wouldn't keep her head down. You know, and we had to pay all that money back. And, you know, so the drug world, man, you know, it's dangerous. We got to end this freaking war because, you know, the greed, the bullshit.

Look at Portugal. Like, look at Portugal. They've legalized everything. Their drug problem is going away. It's going away. Nobody wakes up and says, you know what, I'm going to be a junkie. You know, they're recruited into it by someone. They're recruited into it.

And a lot of it is there that they're recruited into by someone that needs a fix. And it keeps going on and on. And, you know, and the worst fucking dealers are the goddamn physicians that were sitting there poison us with oxyconin. For instance, I went to a mapleton pain clinic in Boulder. They took me from 30 milligrams a day of oxycodone to 180, 300 milligrams of morphine, then throw some soma on top of that and had me like that for a couple of years, you know, a few years. And I'm, you know, I'm working and doing my thing, you know, because that's,

That was their theory. You could be on high doses of opiates and live a normal life. Well then in 2017, when the heat came down from the federal government, said, Mark, we're sorry, we're closing down, you got to find a new doctor. You know, for a doctor to prescribe that, it was a year's waiting list. Any doctor in frickin Colorado. So they let 5,000 patients strung out. what do you think happens?

Heroin. It's very cheap. Heroin is very cheap. And it's a freaking epidemic man that we need to cure. We need to cure it. And a lot of that, again, goes back to psychedelics. Because me getting off a methadone, if it wasn't for ketamine, if it wasn't for psilocybin and a really intense LSD trip,

I don't think I could have done it. I really don't. And the other factor was when I had the DVT, when they put a pick line in my bicep to shower it with a clot-busting medicine, right? And after the anesthesia wore off, I was in severe pain. And they would come in and give me 10 milligrams of morphine. while I'm on like, what, 150 milligrams of methadone. So it's not doing a damn thing for me.

It lasts five minutes. Now I'd cry for two hours. Give me a shot. Cry for two hours. They made me do that all night. Instead of the nurse calling a doctor and saying, your patient is severely undermedicated. Because that's how it used to work.

That's how it used to work. But not anymore for some reason. And it's the stigma of opiate. addiction, the stigma. And we got to change that. We really do. If we're going to get, we're going to get past this, you know. And I think psychedelics plays a big part in that.

I think spirituality's place. Yeah. You know, I never, you know, my whole life, I never really believed in God. You know, I got introduced to the Rudernandas in the early 80s. I went to meditate in the rash rom and whatnot. And this Swami, like, plugged into my consciousness, right? And it freaked me out. It freaked me out.

And I loved, right? But who knows what he put in there? You know? And I'm glad he did. Because now I'm coming back to that, you know, and realizing that, you know, there's a better way. There's a better way. And a peaceful way.

But you got to push back, though. You can't be a victim. You can't be a freaking victim, you know? You got to push back. Yeah. What do you think, like going through what you saw with cannabis or even seeing the previous resurgence of the psychedelic, you know, in the 60s and the 70s or maybe even the late 50s,

what do you think is different this time coming around? America's consciousness? world's consciousness actually. And I think people like Deepak Chopra, you know, of course, Rick Doblin and others have really helped that. You know, it's, I just think that America's realizing that something is really freaking wrong. And again, you know, Gabber Matte, I don't know if you're from. familiar with him. Sure.

He's got this new book, The Myth of Normal. And I'll tell you what, it's so profound. And it explains so much, so much about why our society is so messed up. And, you know, and I don't know. I just really hope that we can get ourselves on the right path. Yeah, I think we are, but it's, you know, I once heard a quote that said, nothing ever gets better until you admit that something's wrong. But in the United States, look, we don't want to admit we're wrong.

Like, we have a real problem with that. Like, if you admit you're wrong, you might get in trouble. If you admit you're wrong, you might lose your job. If you admit you're wrong, then everything else is wrong. Your relationship, it's really hard to do. But we have to do that. Yeah, because, you know, you're stigmatized for that, you know, or belittled or whatever, it turns out.

you want to use, you know. And, you know, I can't remember who the quote was from, but something like, you know, correct a fool, he will hate you, correct a wise man who will appreciate you. And I believe that, you know, and unfortunately, I think a lot of it had to do with the dumbing, what I call the dumbing down of America. You know, back in my day, we learned civics, social studies. We learned about the Constitution, history, and, you know, I was big on that, you know. And today, you know, in a lot of places, it's not even taught because they don't want you to know the tools on how to get things done, you know? And the real way to get things done is you go to your legislature with the law already written.

Basically, you give it to them, make some improvements. Here's my idea. And that's kind of how it works. And do the work for them. You know, be assertive. You know, and it helps. It helps. Yeah.

It does seem like a different time where it's, it does seem like a different time. You know, if you look at all the corruption that has kind of made its way through the veins of the American body, you can see places dying. And I, you know, whether it's low income neighborhoods, whether it's, you know, border towns or white communities in all over the world, communities all over the world are, or at least in the United States, like there's epidemics of fentanyl. There's epidemics of poverty. And these, to me, just seem to be epidemics of corruption. Like, they're all symptoms of the sickness that is plaguing us. And it's this idea that unless we help each other, we're never going to make it through. We can run and we can hide.

But the truth is we are all sick. The society we live in is making us sick. And we have to stand up together and fight arm and arm, whether you're black and white or gay or straight or trans or whatever. man like it's not that person over there it's not that guy it's not that girl it's not that minority it's all of us and we're all guilty and there's people that are making a conscious decision to divide us so they distract us while they take all the money that's what i think man i can give you a good example of that i had uh i reduced the rent from this billionaire around here i'm not going to name name so i don't get, you know.

And he, when I was in a jam, he suggested I go see a realtor friend to him to kind of sell my home, right? When I called the guy, I acted like I was the billionaire's best friend. And the guy opened up and like, you know, it started chat, chat, chat, chat, chat, chat, chat, chat. Because I'd known him for years, you know. And when we met at the house, you know, he's like, oh, be great to get

this like, you know, a cheap house, you know, this, you know, I'm thinking myself, I'm living at 10,000 feet, ordered by National Forest, what cheap house, you know? And, and, uh, and what he was trying to do is skim my equity. You see? And then, but he told me the story that how him and this guy meet every morning to decide, and he uses the billionaire's money to buy up inventory of houses, and they hang on to them until the prices go up. Yeah. And they sell. And this is the problem in America.

This is why everybody's homeless. You know, a freaking greed. You know, it's just, it's out of control, man. That whole mindset of all those, you know, I call them, see you Republicans back in the early 80s, you know, their mindset that greed is good, Gordon Gecko crap. Yeah, right, right. It's like, my God, man.

It's never good. It's never good. You know, like, when do you feel the best? You know, is it when you're stealing from somebody or when you're giving them something? You know? Yeah. Seriously. Yeah, I agree.

And I see this awakening as if you look around the world or if we just take the U.S., for example, there is a lot of people that are, like, you know what, I'm not going to go work for this large corporation. And, you know, whether it's the, there was a recent strike with the railway systems, UPS is getting ready to strike, a lot of these large multinational corporations that at one time were headquartered in the U.S. are having a difficult time, like Amazon warehouses, they're having a difficult time finding people. And they try to blame the people like, oh, well, they just don't want to work or they're lazy. But the truth is, maybe the people should get a fair shake at what the corporations

making. It seems to me there's been this ever narrowing conveyor belt of profit going strictly to the top and then getting rid of the people on the bottom. And there's solutions. Like if we bring in automation, why not tax the robots? Okay, Amazon now has three million robots working on the floor. All of them should pay a payroll tax. Every one of them. And that money should go into like a freedom fund. And that funds everybody to help build this country. There's a many of ways we could split things. up. That's the thing is why everybody's so depressed and anxious. We're basically Uncle Sam's

money-making machines. Totally. And, you know, I was working for a multinational corporation here when I got hurt for jam smuckers and who basically own a lot of different things. You would be amazed. And, you know, they built a billion dollar factory out here to make peanut butter jelly sandwiches without crust. Like, how lazy is America become? I mean, it just blows me away. And here's the thing about, you know, in Eisenhower's time, you know, after you made your first million dollars, you were taxed 90% on next million or whatever, right? And people live pretty freaking good back then that were millionaires. Okay. Then, you know, Kennedy cut it a little bit. It was like 50%, I think. And, you know, then like, you know, Reagan

cut it down to like 20s, you know, and we're like, you know, we're taking away our money. And when it comes to CEO pay, back when I was starting out, you know, the executive or the CEO made 100 times more than, say, the janitor. Now it's about 4,000 times. Why is that? The janitor is still making the same thing. And here's an example. At high school, I hired into Jeep Corporation in Toledo, Ohio. 2019 I hired into

Jam Smuckers at the same pay rate. Wow. Yeah, that's a long time. So, you know, what are we doing? We're basically creating this class of halves and have nuts. And, you know, back when I was growing up, my family was rare because both my parents worked, but everybody else was living on one salary, you know.

And it's amazing, you know, and people got by great. And what happened to that, you know? And I think it slowly started in 1968, and it's just this gradual, like going towards almost fascism. And we're pretty much here. folks, you know, it's like, we've got to fight it, you know. And it's not because, you know, who's going to win this, you know? Nobody. And people, again, it's expanding our consciousness. Right. You know, like, you know, like Ram Dass and Timothy, Larry, they're old, they used to have a

board that would say, like, how quickly the world would become enlightened, right? After LSD, but it involved dumping into the water system, right? And I, you know, then like here, you know, drop acid, not bombs. Yeah, I love it. I love the shirt. And it's, and I believe in that. I really do, man. It's, you know, and it's not like you've got to take it every day.

You know, some people, you just got to take it once. Right. You know, and, you know, and just realize you're part of a bigger thing. man you're part of like the synchronicity of the whole world everything man it's just amazing to me yeah that's one of the biggest revelations i think people have on psychedelics is this idea that maybe you didn't come into this world you came out of it and you're part of it and the people you see you're part of the the tree that you see you're part of the earth you see you're part of and when you begin to really grasp that concept the idea of greed kind of falls away

way because it's like you're stealing from yourself. Like you're making yourself worse by taking something that doesn't belong to you. You know, it's, it's interesting. And I think that that is where we're at right now. Like there is this sort of race between, you know, consciousness and catastrophe. And are we going to wake up fast enough or is that wave just coming over? You know what? It's interesting to think about.

I heard Deep Deepak say that we're at a crossroads right now. we can like sleeply be asleep and walk to extinction sleepwalk into extinction or we can awaken yeah and i i truly believe that uh you know we we are there but i also believe that they're not going to win i think we're hearing the last gas of the dinosaurs and you know they're trying they've been robbing our treasury for what 40, 50 years now, you know, and their last gasps and all this stuff, these billionaires, you know what, we're going to get rid of these robber barons too. You know? Because that's the problem with the world is all these oligarchs that are, you know, basically

just ripping everybody off. You know, there's enough resources. Right. where we could feed everybody on the planet. We could like, you know, there's enough resources here where we could give everybody a salary, where they could live, you know? It's just amazing to me what we spend our money on.

A freaking war. That is our goal and why. So America's got some heavy karma, man. And I think that's what's happening right now. And, you know, we got to get rid of that karma. We got to listen to people, like, you know, the indigenous folks from every country. Their wisdoms, man, are just so profound. And for us Westerners to try to rip it off, it's just, it's bullshit.

And it just makes me mad, you know. you know, POD ceremonies should be left for the people that have been using them for millenniums. You know, unless you're invited into it. You see what I'm saying? If you're invited into it, that's a good thing. But like to go and start like harvest in POD and do this and that, you just deplete it, man. And it's not a good way.

If you want to experience masculine, there's ways to do that. It's easy to make. Yeah, there's, there is plenty of ways to experience different things. And, you know, when we speak about the wisdom of our elders, one thing that I see missing, at least where I grew up, is this absence of rights of passage, this absence of rituals. You know, it used to be that's the thing that the communities brought together. And you can still hear echoes of like a kinsignera or a bernitzvah. There's still some little echoes of these things. But maybe sort of a new, and maybe that's one thing I hope to see,

and I do see it emerging in the psychedelic community, is people beginning to bring together community events where people can experience a transition. Maybe the first time they see somebody go through it. And then it's their turn to go through it. And then they're the facilitator. It's like they get to go all. the way around this wheel and as soon as one person makes it around now the next generation can make

it around a little bit better and so like i see the wheel beginning to turn a little bit what do you think about that i i totally agree and uh for instance with iboga uh in the country where it's comes from in africa it is a right of passage to become an adult you take a boba they also use it for sicknesses and things like that uh And I think we've lost that whole thing as far as, you know, these rites of passages. Yeah. And I think they're very important. I really do.

I, you know, I'm glad that, you know, my child experienced a psychedelic. Sure. I'm very glad. I, you know, and, you know, and I made sure that when, you know, and I made sure that when And she, you know, I talked to her about drugs very early. I mean, from the time she was probably four about, you know, not don't do this, don't do that, you know. Yeah. She got in high school, of course, you know, there came a curious time.

And their friends all wanted to do acid, you know. And I was like, don't go buying it. Like, you know, if you guys really want to do this, you know, let me make sure it's real. and you know they all had a good experience and I don't think they ever do they've ever done it since but you know it was up on my property up in the woods the proper setting yeah you know and a person there that wasn't stoned to take care of them and they had a great time so you know it's uh and what did it hurt her i mean she's he said graduated to be a gyrobrack yeah and you know it's and you know And think of all the things like with technology, you know, the human genome, all that.

We're all like seen like while I know. Yeah. You know, it's just amazing. Yeah. In some ways, the, the war on drugs is almost like a war on consciousness because it forces us. Like every, you can make the argument that every country runs on drugs. We happen to run on caffeine, stimulants, and alcohol. These are drugs that make you be quote unquote productive.

You know what I mean? Like whatever that's supposed to mean, whatever sort of value productivity is, is, you know, it saddens me to think. But you can go to any union hall, any break room and any store and any mall, and there's a coffee machine there. Like, you know, what if we replace the coffee machine with some mushroom tea? You know, what happens when we start changing the fuel?

that we run on. Well, I think we're beginning to see. Yeah, exactly. We're beginning to see this outbreak of consciousness. We're beginning to see this outbreak of forgiveness, this all of a sudden overwhelming feeling of respect for the planet. Like, you know, it makes the people that own all the rights to everything really nervous when all of a sudden, you know, and that's good.

That's how it should be. These people should be given the opportunity to apologize and pay some. some sort of penalties, or, you know, if they can't do that, then the consequences for them, I think are going to be dire. You know, I'm amazed that the Sackler family isn't facing the death penalty right now, in my opinion. Like, I think that they should be facing a jury of their peers, and they should be forced to, you know, see the pools of tears that their drug has caused to people in order for them to be so wealthy.

Like, it's such a disgusting display. And they knew it all along. They knew it. They knew it all along. That's why I'm involved in that suit. Good. You know, and it's terrible. And you know, and Melacrot was even worse, because when Oxycontin had to change their

formula so it couldn't be tampered with, that's when Melanchot, an Irish pharmaceutical company, decided, oh, I want a piece of this action and created, you know, the typical blue, pill now with the M that is fake fake fentanyl now but was Roxy Koto and I've got evidence that you know they

were syncing up the doctors they had this like reggae song you know you've got the power in your hand man you can get them out of pain you know like the script pad in the hand get them out of pain it's just like my God man he's

marketing campaigns to addict people. Yeah. To addict people. And why are the drug companies on TV, talking people, people into like buying some drug that they don't need? Yeah. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

And, you know, it's taken me in a lot of years to understand this because working in medicine, I kind of believed it for a long time. I really did. And I still believe in a lot of them. like sleep medicine, things like that. But it's been perverted by the drug companies. It's been perverted. And not only them, we need to get to DEA out of health care.

I'm serious. Like they're a rogue organization. You know, who the hell are they to say what your doctor can prescribe you or what he can't? You know? It's ridiculous. that's why we have the FDA you know and uh to me the DEA should be abolished immediately you know they're uh they're the worst you know yeah they it's interesting to see how many people like even on the FDA there's a there's a revolving door the same that happens in our congress

the same that happens with lobbyists you know how many representatives of from Pfizer came from the FDA and how many go back and forth it's just you know you know how many go back and forth it's just, it's just, hey, you pay me and you pay me, all approve your drug and we'll test it on the kids. That's how it works. It's so crazy, man. It's how it works. It's not that much different than Nazi Germany, if you think about it, like the same way they were testing on stuff, but now they're just making more money and they've legalized it. Well, you know, and a lot of those drugs that were developed Nazi Germany, we use it. It's true. We never stopped. Methadamphetamine, all that kind of crime. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you know,

It's a bad situation, but I think the worst situations is, you know, this whole thing with the SSRI medication and trying to screw with serotonin receptors and dopamine receptors and things like that. Because, you know, they only block or, you know, release, you know, or now they've got new ones, which, like, a little floodgate, they say. It's like bull. Yeah. They say bull. Yeah. And how much do they help? Maybe 30% of the people.

Maybe. Maybe 30%. Maybe. Exactly. You know, where, again, ketamine. It's been shown to help, I think, well over 50%. I think it's closer to 80. It doesn't work for everybody.

But it's one hell of an experience. I'll tell you that. And if you really want to go, and see what the void or whatever you want to call it. Like, you know, I had a

experience on ketamine, the complete loss of ego. I felt like I was going down the shoot, like down a slide, you know, 300 miles an hour, right? Scared the hell out of me. All of a sudden, I'm just shot out

into this universe. and, you know, I realize it's like so great. And like, that's when I started believing in God. You know, I really realized it. And it was amazing. The worst part about it, though, is I had all these revelations and I came back. And I didn't go and talk to somebody to integrate that. You know, what a, what a freaking lost opportunity.

Because ever since I've gone to ketamine therapy, I've always tried to like go back to that. And I can never get it, you know. They, they asked me, how was it? I said, it's when my first time I went to it, the therapy. Because my first time I did ketamine where I had that experience, I got it myself and a bile of it and injected myself. with 120-5 milligrams.

And I am. And an amazing experience, amazing experience. But of course, the ketamine clinics didn't open up for about three or four years after that. So when I went back, went to a ketamine clinic, the first session asked me, you know, how was it? I said, you know, it was like seeing a friend's hand, but I couldn't quite grasp it. You know? And, you know, I know, I know several ex and current police officers that are in ketamine therapy. I think every police officer should be in ketamine therapy.

I'm not kidding you. Because we have a real problem with law enforcement in this country. You know? I'll tell you an incident. When I was 14, me and my friends were beaten by police for standing on a corner, which was kind of in front of my own home. Beaten. One of my friends or two of them were thrown in the paddy wagon,

and they just emptied a can of mason. and my one friend broke out, knocked the cop down and ran. The other one thought he was going to be a good person and sit there. And he got to help eat out of him all the way down. And in Toledo, when you went up, you said to go to this elevator up when you got booked. That elevator had they kept blood all over it,

just to freaking intimidate you. You know? And this is the mindset. of law enforcement still today. Like, we're the enemies. We're not the enemies. You know, you're supposed to be our servants. You know, you're supposed to protect us and serve, you know,

and not harass us and kill us. You know, when I was set up in the early 80s, or late 80s, I got off because, you know, they were trying to bust us for the pot deal. but they played on the cocaine. And they had a snitch paid him for him. I hired him in my tie-dye shop. Okay?

And I told him, I said, if you're my friend, you'll never break cocaine out around you because I've got an issue. He kept asking me, I said, maybe I get you a bag. Oh, I need 10 pounds. Oh, I can't get that kind of way, you know, because you're going to crap where you're asleep, right?

And he worked on me for about a year. Then one day, and he moved him right in next to me in these cabins. And one day we pull up on this mountain road, and he says, Mark, I need to borrow your scale. I said, why do you need my scale? He got a scale. Because I need a special scale. I said, why is that? He processed an ounce of cocaine left.

And, you know, he goes take one in this golf ball size. rock and I take it of course and lose my mind completely and, you know, and then he comes and ask me for the cash and I, you know, you son of a bitch, you know, you don't do that to me again, I'll kill you. And then they go to my friend who was my partner and say, Mark or Ritt or Hutch, Mark owes these guys big money for cocaine and they're going to kill them, but they kind of need a new connection. If you could set this up, they're willing to squash marks that. Well, when they would call me on the phone, the cops, I'd go, hello, they would start to talk, I'd click, it must add a thousand of those. Click, I wouldn't talk. Hodge, he, you know,

he talked, he did things. Anyway, we got set up. And it was a big setup. We were interviewed on KGNU over it, public. radio station in Boulder. This is like during Reagan's drug war, bullshit. And when I got on the stand, you know, they're accused me all the stuff selling two ounces of cocaine to this undercover cop. And at the time, that was a mandatory four years per ounce. And I got up on the stand. My lawyer asked me one question. He said, where were you, Mark, on the state these officers say you did this? I said, well, I was incarcerated in the Gunnison County Jail for driving without insurance for 10 days. And you looked over at the judge.

I said, Your Honor, they're lying. And it was like, boom, you know, this trial. I walk out and I get reed basically for conspiracy. You know, you can't win. You just can't win. And my buddy, who they destroyed, who was like six months away from a triple degree at CU, did six years in prison. Then did more because we were like sending him acid so he could like write it out. But he made the mistake sharing it with a cellmate and who snitched him out.

And so, you know, the drug war, there's so many casualties, so many casualties. And so many people have been hurt by it. And we've got to end it. We've got to end it. Like I said, the model of Portugal is there. You know, like, why can't we just open our eyes? You know? And again, I think it's because law enforcement,

makes way too much money off of it. Seizures, cash, all that kind of crap. Same with the DEA, you know. Of course, the, you know, cartels are making big cash off of it, who are also,

you know, bribing law enforcement. You know, it's a big game, man. It's a big game. And anybody that's ever been in it knows that. Yeah, it's hard to shut down

I mean, you know, you can't just shut down Walmart by saying they sell bad stuff. You know, they got a team of attorneys. And you could argue that the drug war is the biggest multinational corporation on the planet. Like, you know, how are you going to shut, how do you shut them down? They own everything. And when push comes to shove and there's no money for a state legislature, who do you think is funding them? Who do you think funds the bank bail out? Like, who do you think funds the initiatives around the world is the cartels?

It's the American cartel, the Mexican cartel. the banking cartel, like, it's all part of the same system, man. And they are the ones, the cartels are the ones that taught the billionaires in America, how do dodge taxes down in Panama, basically offshore accounts, all that kind of crap, hiding their money everywhere. You know, and that's the problem, you know, that these people are so greedy, they don't want to pay their fair share. And they made all this money using our common, the public commons,

you know, our roadways, our infrastructure, all these things we paid for. That's how they made their cash, but they're not willing to give it back, you know, to help improve that infrastructure so other people can lift themselves up also. And it's a real problem. It's a real problem. Yeah. You know, I was thinking about it. Wouldn't it be interesting? Like if you do legalize it, if you take a Portugal model, all of a sudden you take these people that are criminals and you just make them businessmen. Like, you know, why can't MS-13 be the next Steve Jobs? Like they are. Like these people have, if you just, if we just for a moment, take them out of the world of criminality, like those people, there's some really good entrepreneurs in there, you know? Well, no, they're brilliant. They're totally, totally. There's no doubt about that. I, you know, one of my old connections told, he told me once he said, Mark, don't worry about it, you know, once you've made a lot of money, you can make it again.

Because you already done it so you know it can be done. For most people, they don't believe it can be done. You know, and I think a lot of times people are afraid to try. For the fear of failing. And I think trying and failing is learning. Yeah, totally. You know, it's part of life, man. And I think that that's a huge point.

And it takes us full circle almost. Just this maybe the epidemic that we're all suffering from is fear. It's something that we're conditioned to. It's something that the, like, That's the reason why police act the way they do. It's the reason why criminals act the way they do. It's the reason I act the way I. It's the reason we all act in a certain way that is detrimental to our health is because

we're afraid. We're being threatened. But the only thing, you know, I think it was JFK who said, the only thing you have to fear is fear itself. And if you can rise above it, it's difficult to speak truth to power. But if you can just begin to take one step towards that which you're afraid of, pretty soon you'll be face to face with it. And pretty soon you'll see that, hey, I don't really have that much to be afraid of because I got nothing to hide.

You've got nothing to hide. You've got nothing to fear. That's right. And once you open up and let everybody know that your history, you know, it's over. Yeah. You know, who cares? I'm me. And as far as speaking truth to power, it has to be done.

It has to be done. I'm doing it currently with. Boulder County Housing store because they're abusing the disabled, the elderly, and the working poor. By just lack of maintenance and craziness and seven layers of bureaucracy so I could get to the top to somebody made a decision. The only way I could get there, the only reason I got there is because I had connections. You know, I know Jonah Goose. I know Claire Lobby. I know I've met Jared Polis, you know, I've got

connections, and that's the only reason. Otherwise, I would have been evicted and thrown down on the street. And that's the reality. Poor people live on. Is if they speak up, they're going to get thrown away. Yeah. And that's why we have so many people on the street. And this is,

and imagine living in a place where noises are happening constantly. So you've got these constant sleep disturbances, right? As a registered sleep tech, I can tell you that is very bad for your brain, very bad for your physical health, your mental health, it will kill you. And the problem is what will happen is you'll create a sleep deficit. And your brain doesn't care when it reaches that deficit. It will shut you off. You might be sitting in your chair. You might be doing

60 miles an hour down the highway. It will shut you down. And that's why we have auto, you know, that's a big cause for auto accidents, that sort of thing. And, you know, and these poor people, you know, they're getting driven insane because of their environment, you know. And we have the money to make it better. And come on. You know, all this infrastructure money that's coming in, that was my point to Boulder County. It's like all this infrastructure money coming in, shouldn't you guys get your house together before you start spending it? You know?

Because seriously, I think a lot of money gets wasted. And I'm not like a conservative. But I'm a realist. I, you know, I was a delegate for Bernie Sanders,

you know? I truly believe in that. You know, and with all my might, and but you know there's common sense and and that's why i support Bernie because he has common sense you know and uh i'm so glad that people have finally opened up to him what he's been saying for fucking 40 years you know 40 years and uh and finally people are getting and thank God.

Thank God. Yeah. As we're kind of coming up, get rid of land the plane, Mark, like what would you say to like a younger George or a younger Mark, like who's kind of coming up and seeing these changes happen?

Like, what advice would you give to your younger self? If there's like a younger version of us out there, what kind of words of wisdom would you give them if they could hang on to? Be true to yourself. You know, don't get hung up on what other people are telling you. or saying about you, whatever.

You know, don't get so hung up on, like, image. You know, chasing money, although we need it to live and be comfortable, don't become addicted to it because that's what billionaires are. They're addicted to money. And, you know, there's good and bad drugs out there. Be careful. Be careful. Before you experiment with anything, do research.

You know, and know you're ready, you know. And stat and setting again. But don't go into it haphazardly. And don't abuse it. Because, man, let me tell you, I've been through it. Addiction, it's no fun. It's hell. On you, your family, your friends.

It's hell on everyone. It's hell on the country. And, you know, it's just got to stop. And so, so please, please, you know, heed my words. you know, don't do opiates. Don't do phythom. Don't do methamphetamine. None of that crap.

You know, if you want to have a real experience, take a mushroom. You know, seriously. Man, just mic drop right there. That's beautiful. It's words of wisdom from a lived experience. And, uh, ladies and gentlemen, I hope everybody out there who listened to this, enjoyed this conversation as much as I did as much as Mark did. I got your substack link down below.

Is there any other place you want to send people to if they want to find out more about what you got going on? Well, I do have a page on Facebook called Psychonautical Engineering. And otherwise, you know, I'm on LinkedIn. And I do have a substack. I also write on the Daily Coast a lot about psychedelics and other things. So I went Had recently I'd like I said

I've gone through some stuff the last five months You know dealing with things so I couldn't create a lot of content that I usually did But I'm back on track now So I'm looking forward to put some more stuff out there Yeah me too I'm looking forward for To be reading it and checking it out And further conversations with you

Looking forward to seeing any and all things that come up. And I'm really thankful that you're out there, Mark, doing what you're doing. I think that you leave a trail of breadcrumbs for activists to follow and not only follow, but learn from some of the wins and some of the loss that you had. And that's really incredible that you're willing to share that. I think that's how people get better. And I'm thankful to get to see and be part of that experience, man.

So thank you for your time here today. You're welcome, my friend, and aloha. Yeah. Hang on one second, Mark. I'm going to hang up with the people, but I wanted to chitchat for you one more. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for today. I hope everyone's having a beautiful day. I hope you heed the words of wisdom from Mark Rose, and that's all we got for today.

Aloha.