TrueLife - Matt Maes - All The Things

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Aloha and welcome, seekers of creativity and imagination. Today, we’re opening a door into a world where myth and art intertwine, where every brushstroke holds the potential to reconnect you with the deepest parts of your soul. Our guest, Matt, is not just a painter—he’s a Mythical Painter, an artist who brings the fantastical into the tangible, and a Creative Educator who teaches others to unlock their own boundless potential through what he calls the Quantum Keyhole.Armed with a BA in Media Arts and Animation, Matt doesn’t just create art—he crafts entire experiences. His work invites you to step into a realm where imagination flows freely, and the stories within us come to life. For those who crave deeper encounters with myth, creativity, and themselves, Matt’s art is a portal to discovery.Join us today as we explore the enchantment of Matt’s creations and discover how his journey can help unlock your own.linktr.ee/qkstudio One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Fearist through ruins maze lights my war cry born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a wonderful day. I hope you're ready to see your world as a piece of, art, be it a performance piece of art, or maybe you're looking at your own hero's journey, because I have with me today, an incredible individual, Matt Mays from the Quantum Keyhole

Studio, and I want to ask everyone to help me welcome him, and this one goes out to the seekers of creativity and imagination. Today, we're opening a door into a world where myth and art intertwine, where every brush stroke holds the potential to reconnect you with the deepest parts of your soul. Our guest, Matt, is not just a painter. He's a mythical painter, an artist who brings the fantastical into the tangible and a creative educator who teaches others to unlock their own boundless potential through what he calls the quantum keyhole. Armed with a B.A. in media arts and animation, Matt doesn't just create art. He crafts entire experiences, and you'll see that in some of his work. His work invites you to step into the realm where imagination flows freely,

and the stories within us come to life. For those who crave deeper encounters with mythology, creativity, and themselves, Matt's art is a portal to discovery. Matt, thanks for being here today, my friend. How are you? Right on. I'm doing amazing. And thank you for that really saucy, slamming intro that you gave me.

That's just, that's amazing. Thank you so much. So I'll try to do justice to what you just laid out, how you just described me. So really appreciate it. Great to be back. I know our first conversation was just super packed and amazing and alvening. And yeah, I can't wait to get into it, man. Talking about symbolism in art.

And yeah, it's great to be back, man. Yeah, man. Well, I'm stoked you're here. Our last conversation was awesome. And I felt that we just kind of scratched the surface of, you know, not only our relationship, but the idea of art. and how your life is a form of art. And if you can give people a little bit of background and refresh their memories,

like you have some incredible mythical pieces. I know that you have been part of multiple podcasts with other people where you talk about symbolism and mythic mythology and art. But what is it about mythology for you and that type of influence that really draws you to doing that kind of art? Thank you. Yeah, give everybody kind of a great. primer on one about what really fires me up and inspires me. I've been an artist since I was seven years old, which is when I discovered drawing. And I've always loved storytelling. So whether it was

reading books or watching movies or shows or that, you know, all that sort of thing, storytelling has always had a powerful influence in my life. And those have kind of intertwined over many years, but it was a handful of years ago, about six years ago, I want to say, where I watched the power of myth interviews between Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers, where it really came into focus that really the path of mythic art is my calling, that bringing out this incredible, vibrant world of mythology, And really what grabs me about mythology is that there is, there are real deep patterns within our lived stories, within our psychology, with the way we experience the world. It's something that is innately knit into the way that we experience reality and even beyond how we experience reality.

Even, you know, goes beyond our senses, right? which goes back to my path as a mythical artist to bring that into focus through the senses and to make the things that are intangible and sometimes ethereal and mystical into the artwork in ways that we can be in contact with them because we can often get lost in that in our day-to-day lives you know getting into the same kind of routines into the same you know And, you know, I can tell you, I'm actually a big fan of keeping a certain measure of structure, you know, but definitely getting us in touch with our hero's journeys in our real lives through the art. And I think there's really something to be said for connecting with the divine and the mystical through the senses, whether it's visual art or sculpture or music or whatever, you know, something that brings you to life. Yeah, it's well said. I loved that series with Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers. It had a big impact on my life. And you start just digging deeper into these ideas of mythology. It's like looking at a mirror of yourself. And for me, I listened to those lectures via audio. And I was able in some way to create a story in my mind and translated in a certain way. But everybody has their own translation. And I think that your brand of art,

and you as an individual have a unique way of inviting people into mythology. And that is with your artwork. When I see the details of some of your pieces, like the one behind you, we spoke about some other pieces in the previous podcast. But maybe you could talk about that particular process. Are you, when you're creating something, do you feel you're creating an invitation for someone to find a story? Are you telling a story?

What is that act of creation for you? Well, you know, there are a lot of different parts to it. And we think about how those are made up and how that, you know, each one having its role, like myself as a creator, being inspired by something, being open to curiosity, being open to what may come through. You know, what's that whole source material, right? And for myself, I'm really blessed to have struck upon something like mythology where you have an immense pool of sources to pull from, right? I mean, really, it's like a playground. Really, I've got like so much that I can that I can grab onto and be inspired and let the ideas come through.

Right. And they each have different. I'm a huge proponent of inherent meaning within symbolism, within mythology, things that they actually represent. Now we can interpret them in a lot of different ways as well, you know, and say, take a thing that's multidimensional and turn it around in our hands and see the many different facets of it and see that they are all true, right? see that everything that is innately true about that thing can be, you know, can be relayed through art and can be, you know, something that's translated through us, right? So I'm, as the creator, as the artist, I get to be the vessel through which those things come through, right? So I want to do justice to whatever it is that I'm painting, whoever it is that I'm painting. And say, you know, the example of Freya, Freya behind me, right?

She represents many different aspects, like love, beauty, magic, motherhood, and all of those can be translated through the art, right? And so when I have those meanings, I can look at what universal symbols represent those things, right? how those things show up. Like, you know, for example, they're like the sun cross would be a symbol that is represented in many different ways across many different cultures, right?

Or for Norse culture, it would be the helm of, it's this eight-sided symbol, right? It's this one with eight different directions to it, right? And it represents protection. You would often put it on your forehead, and it's used for intimidation, that sort of thing. And so I can see what shows up in different cultures, what's innate to that culture,

and what kind of rhymes between cultures, right? Now, that's where we have to be really careful, not to just mix and match things really nilly, as you'd say, but to be conscious of where those sources are, you know, those different cultures and how different symbols might connect. Like, you know, another one would be Igra-Sil is the world tree. Now the world tree is a concept that transcends many different cultures, right? Like the Kabbalah has the, you know, the dual-sided tree in Christianity.

You have the tree of life. It's, you know, like all over the place, you see the symbol of the tree, right? And even we think about our anatomy, right, like the spine, you know, our spine with all the our nerves coming out of our spine, right? Much like the trunk with many different branches coming out of it, you know, even our limbs, right? Like our arms and legs, like we're, you know, living trees in a way, right? So through these symbols, I'm calling to something that is subconscious and something that something that we innately understand. You know, something that at a deep level we can be conscious of and we can tap into. And when we see this through art,

then we can bring ourselves more in tune with that very primal symbolism or that very primal meaning in a felt sense. You know? So I think meaning applies to the mind. It allows us to navigate it allows us to understand right but you can hold ideas inside of your head and not have them activated not realize them right which i think is a thing that a lot of us get caught up in you know where we have we have thoughts inside of our heads that are not being utilized they're not being incorporated right even the meaning within words like in like think about the word this one struck me recently incorporate like corpse the body right like or yeah incorporate it incorporated right to be embodied in something right so that's really what i'm going for through the art

is you know not just you see it now that's you know a nice painting or all that looks cool no i want you to feel it coming through you know to feel what it is coming through to have a felt presence experience of the divine coming through the art. That's really my goal. And when I see that, really, the greatest compliment I received is when someone finds that through the art, when they really connect with a certain piece, when you can see that there is like the light coming through their eyes.

You can see like something has just been turned on with that person. and to know that I've been able to be the vessel to make that possible is an honor. It's honestly, it tells me that I'm doing my job correctly, that I can see that coming through someone, that they were able to make that connection and find something of themselves within the art. Yeah, that's well said. It's almost like a more meaningful language on some level. It transcends words when you can feel something.

It's like poetry. When you read, you know, why is it that, you know, four stanzas of poetry say more, mean more, and feel more than a 400-page terms of service agreement? You know what I mean? Way more and more standards. That is well said. But it's the same with art, too. It's the same process you're describing, I think. Like, you're finding a way to, because you can't say it in words.

It can only be through symbolism. It can only be through the transference of the felt presence that you resonate with what somebody is truly trying to design. And that's a, there's not a whole lot of, I don't, I think the only word to describe that is ineffable, ineffinable. Am I saying that right? Inepable? Like, you can't describe it. There's no words for it. But you can share.

Yeah, you can share in the joy. You can share in the invitation. You can share in the felt presence when you come upon and share it together, man. That's why I love talking to you. It's such a cool, unique way to express it. Yeah. It is an invitation in a way. It feels like art on some level is an invitation into something bigger.

It allows you to, I don't know, it seems like it allows. you to share an experience with someone versus just having a conversation. And you can't have a conversation too, but is that too far out there? What do you think? Well, yeah. And I think that even language, like when you say like can't describe with words, but there's an energy that can come through words as well. You know, like say you're a public speaker and say you have a teleprompter with just all

your words and you're just reading the words you know and you can use that it can be a useful tool for sure but if you're just sitting there you can tell when that person is just like reading off of a script you can tell when that person is just you know wrote you know just repeating what is written what's been written down right but when you say something with passion we say something that you can feel that this it has balls behind it has an energy behind you can feel that there is an urgency that comes through in that person's words, right? There's something that is so deeply expressed that it's like, I need to project this.

It matters more, like even if it matters more than life and death for you to know this, for me to express this, right? It's that important. You know, you can feel the difference between those two people, right? Yeah. And through language, language used artfully. I love the sentiment you just expressed, like, you can read a line of poetry, and that can mean more to you than a 400-page, whatever.

You know, this is, you know, just written for a function, right? Yeah. But I love thinking in terms of things in terms of yes, and as well. You know, like in terms of language, words can be spoken beautifully. You can use your words to project something deep and amazing. And it's the energy that's behind it. Right. And the language is the vessel for that energy to come through, for that meaning to come through.

Like here's another word, like enchantment. You know, like when you're chanting something, when you're speaking something and the energy that comes through in this magical way. And it's just amazing how you're. you can take a word and you can sort of break it open and see what type of meaning is within that word. This is something that's all, it's just fascinating me for a long time is how you can have these realizations about the hidden meanings within words, within language. There's something behind, you know, even the word occult, right?

Actually, that which is hidden, you know, hidden under the surface, right? So when you have that kind of curiosity and you're looking into the deeper meaning behind things, you can really end up in some fantastic places. Yeah, I agree. I'm a huge fan of the occult. And sometimes I think that everything is hidden in plain sight if you just know where to look, right? Like maybe sometimes that gets you in trouble. It gets me in trouble sometimes where I find meaning where maybe someone didn't mean to put any meaning.

But there's meaning there for me, you know. And it is interesting to think about the way in which we imbue our words with energy. Like there is something magical about that. And then you start thinking about different kinds of language. You know, some people speak multiple language and they conjugate verbs different. So they're able to use their language in a way that is more robust. Or even if we look at hieroglyphics or maybe even runes, you've been talking a lot about Roons lately and studying that

doing some of the paintings you do, but maybe we could just shift gears for a minute and like, what are Roons? Is that a language? Is it a symbolic art? Maybe you can give us a definition and then to go into some of the ideas about Roons that you've been working on. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Well, for people who are just getting into Roons or I've never heard the word Roons before, it's a language. It's an alphabet, that originally, functionally, you have the elder and younger Futhark, which are from Norse culture.

And not only are they a language, but they also represent different qualities. Each one of the ruins represents different things, like Fehu, for example, represent abundance, represent growth, right? And you can even pair different ruins together, right? So they can be complimentary. They don't have to just be isolated.

do, right? So like Fehu, big growth, you also have Uru's, and Uruz is like, well, the term is the orrochs or has these horned, these prongs coming out of it, right? And it's interesting, when you look at the symbol itself, you have the prongs which are facing downward, you know, like downward from the sky. And it's like the force that allows that growth to happen. You know, it's a force of creation. So you could say that if one example of Fehu would be, would be growth like a flower blooming. And then you have the water, right,

which comes down into the soil, which allows for that growth to take place, right? So that's a complementary reaction. That's, you know, that's those two, of those two forces of creation working together. So, so, if you know, you know going back to the symbols that the the the function the meaning that precedes the symbols that we inherit and that we you know we work with them uh so there's a term in north

north culture where it is called frith and you could say that you have frith your relationship with the deities with the divine right but you can also have frith with the roots right your your relationship with the meaning of those things and the sense that you have being in tune with it I mean the sensation of what that room represents right so going back even beyond the language even beyond the staves the symbols how the symbols are made up the staves staves being like the lines that make up the symbols right then being in tune with that one way that you can attuned with it is this is called Galdr which is to sing the rooms you could sing

like you sing Pha-hu sing uru so that's that's where a thing and bring yourself in closer contact with them in closer relationship with them so that would be one way that people work with with rooms right and there are even that ruins which are incorporated into the Freya piece here. So the Futhark is divided into three sets of eight. So you have Freya's eight and then you have Heimdahl's eight and then you have Tears eight. So they form the full circle of 24 runes. So they each preside over each of these different rooms. And so I would really encourage people to study them too. If you're curious, about language you know we're talking about language how many sounds how many letters actually

come out of the rooms too because many actually many words in English come out of Norse words and many symbols come out of north symbols as well so yeah i would i would encourage anybody who's curious to to dive deeper into that one and and see what you can find but yeah it's it's something I'm extremely passionate about something that I've been going even deeper into in my own Norse culture, you know. And I think one reason, I've been thinking about this lately, like why it is that it's resonated with me so deeply that part of myself. Now, I'm, I have like seven different nationalities, you know, literally. I've got, you know, Mexican, Spanish, French, Norwegian. Cherokee, Apache, Chippewa, you know, both mom and dad's side.

They both home like multiple different cultures around them, you know. But I think there's a number of reasons. One, it's super badass. It's super cool, honestly. And it's one that I've found the most naturally to be able to step into as well, to be able to find different, you know, different pockets of people. who also celebrate these things, right? And to be able to have a bond, a community,

and a kinship with people who also celebrate these things. And going back to Freya, I've been able to be introduced into these cultures largely through the artwork, largely because I would show someone the artwork, and then that person is part of the community. And boom, there you go. know seemingly more natural than a lot of cultures. You know, I would also say that in my Mexican culture, like, I am part Mexican on my dad's side.

And I was able to co-write, well, illustrate. I contributed many of the key ideas for this book, Azraya Aztec Priestess. being able to go deep into the Mexican culture in that way was really, really cool and important. And being able to learn some of the language, you know, we have some of the language in the beginning of the book and some of the maps from, you know, the Aztec time period. And so that was really cool and honoring. And, you know, I felt I got to connect with my Mexican culture largely through that book is really cool. experience. Yeah.

Like, it seems to me on some level that the shape of words, you know, when you were describing the runes and you talk about the prongs coming down and being plugged into the ground, energy coming up, like, that seems to be lost in a more scalpel-like linguistic description, you know, versus a word that carries a shape to it. It carries an image with it. It carries gravity with it. Like I, like I, on some level, you can look at rune. And you, you would mention this, you know, the runes are more than, they're, they're more than a symbol, or they're more than language, they're a symbol. And they have a shape to them and stuff. And it seems that you share that with the, like the Aztex, when I think of, of some of the artwork that comes out of the,

the indigenous people of South America, like some of the symbolism on the pyramids or on some of the plates that you find. Like there's kind of a lot of similarities in some ways. Or I don't know, is there some similarities in those, in the ruins and that Mesoamerica, that Aztec sort of symbolism?

Maybe in different ways. Yeah. Well, okay, let's just get into this. like the connection between we say the pyramid or the ziggurats right like you have the okay well here again like things that interrelate right like you have the ziggurats in uh mesoamerican culture and then you have the pyramids in egypt you know the similar very similar shape you know very similar function even i mean if you're going to to go really into it like how they align with the direct you know the direction you know the direction

to the poles, right? And seem to, uh, seem to form a line, you know, there's, there's something really incredible about that. Something kind of eerie about that, you know? Yeah. But how, like how is it so accurate, you know?

But, um, but in terms of it, it's interesting in terms of different symbols and different, um, different cultures. I want to talk about how they could be unique. in some ways too. Now, so I have another podcast that I do.

It's a long-running podcast now. We're coming up on our 60th third episode of Mythic Monday, which is a collaboration between myself and the amazing, brilliant myth slayer, Scott Mason, also of the octopus movement. And every week, we feature a unique mythic figure on the show. We talk about them. We dive into their story. Scott does the heft of the storytelling, and I create a live sketch.

And then at the end, we come together and we talk about what's coming through the art, what's coming through the story. And anyway, so one of them was Quetzal, who is the serpent bird snake god of the Aztecs, right? And so part of the story has to do with corn and him presiding over maze, not just my last name, which is purely also connected by the last means. Imagine that. My is, right? But so if you look at a lot of goddesses, too, they have to do with fertility.

They have to do with agriculture and providing out of the ground, right? So it's very interesting to me to see, you know, like a male god, like Kuzl Kowato, presiding over, you know, something of agriculture, right? Yeah. Like people coming up out of the ground through, through corn, right? Yeah. That's a really, that's a really interesting thing, right? So we have these distinctions in talking about, talking about symbols.

A lot of them can be expressed through images, too. You know, come back to Egyptians, the hieroglyphs. Yeah. You know, you have, you have, they're more. representational right so we would have something that's clearly a bird or something that's clearly you know a person with you know like a nubis with the head of the jackal right so they have these these different distinctions to them so but what's yeah what's interesting with with runes I mean they're

very I want to say not trip over how most people think of the word primitive but very primal might be a very good word right where they're simply they're simply the lines you know they're simply the lines to represent them right so you can have another another culture where something is much more akin to looking like an object right So like in Hieroglyphics, you have many different representations of objects. And yeah, so it's interesting actually how I'm always struck by like the relationship between similarities, universal similarities, and then also what's unique in that they exist in the same universe. I think that's something that's really profound to me. that you have things that are universally true, universally applicable, and then you have

variation at the same time. Yeah. Yeah, I agree 100%. It kind of makes me think of this question. When you look at like the Renaissance or you look back, whenever society or modernity gets into trouble, they tend to look back towards the place where, where things were going okay. Hey, where do we go wrong? We took the long way.

We took the wrong way here. And then they look back to a time where things seem to be better than they try to build on that. And in some ways, I'm curious is like, do you think that maybe that's what we're seeing here? Because I know that you have been, you and Scott and so many other people have sort of been pointing towards this archaic revival. Like you're going back to ruins. You're going back to Mesoamerica. Do you think that maybe your art in conjunction with a lot of other artists around the world that seem to be bringing forth this motif is pointing us to saying, hey, we've kind of lost our way. Maybe we should look back to a time when things were a little bit different so we can find some answers.

Maybe that the art is speaking through you to society. You ever think about it from that angle? I think there's a lot of that. I definitely, now, when we're getting into different ages and different generations and, you know, different thought patterns, you know, and there's always been this, the sort of growing pains or conflict between different generations, right? I mean, you have the, you know, you have the elders and you have the newest generation. And then you know, you have what is thought of as tried and true and what's traditional and that sort of thing. And then you have the innovation. You have like, hey, let's try these new ideas. Yes. That's, I mean, that in and of itself is a pattern that just repeats itself in so many different ways. And, you know, not to go too far deep into a rabbit hole year, but my wife does some really tremendous work with family businesses in her work. So she runs a program at DU here in Colorado, Denver, where you have resources, workshops,

all of this different kind of support is it's really just flourishing around family businesses. Now, the reason why I bring up family businesses is, because you can have, say, the founder, the person, you know, let's talk about like multi-generational business. Let's talk about ones that have been around for like, you know, a hundred years or so or something like that, multiple generations. So you have the person who founded it, the person who is the, you know, the starter, right? The person who had the idea for the business, built it up, say, built it, you know, built a team around them, that sort of thing. They got it started, right? And then they have the kids and say those kids participate in the essay kids like, you know, you can say they're children.

You could say like, you know, 20s, 30s, 40s, whatever, you know. And then how do they grow with that? How do they take, you know, and you have to consider what work then may not necessarily work now or in the future, right? So being able to bring new ideas into the process and say, like, you'll, you'll be able to. pops mom you know what you did that really got us here that really you know say they're very respectful and say like what you did got us to this place now now we're at a different phase and the world is a different place and there are new things that we got to consider maybe new technologies that we have to consider to grow to adapt and to you know to keep on going right

And that's a really valid thing. They both have their merits, right? I mean, you can have the foundation. You have to have a foundation. But then you also have to be able to grow out of that, right? And so we're at a very interesting point in time where we can look back at all of this history, all of these different ages, all the different things that have transpired. And we can sort of critique them. right and there's this there's this mindset like oh we you know the things we did back then like

you know yeah we did them because we didn't know any better we were trying to do our best whatever and then you know but we really we got it figured out now and pretty much every it's funny how every generation seems to think that yeah right but but being able to look at things like myth things that are are i say archaic as it. Yeah. I think that's synonymous with foundational, right? Yeah. Things that are timeless, things that don't erode with age, that we can look back at those things and say, you know, it's not that we actually do know better than have, then the realization of these patterns. This is something that seems to persist. There's something that seems to

to still be relevant in many different ways, right? And it's funny whenever it, well, a lot of times when I talk to people about, about myth, it's like this thing that they studied in college or high school. And it's like, oh, yeah, myth. Oh, yeah. I studied, I studied mythology. I don't remember that. It's like, it still applies, man.

Like, it's still very much applies, right? But it's just, it's funny. if you were to drive down the street or go into any given store, you know, like how often do you hear mentions of myth? How often do you hear mentions of mythology as relevant to our lives? Right. So it's something that really strikes me as interesting and profound and deeply, deeply needed too. You know, so being able to bring people back into a realization of these. stories that are around us and within us and and they they all they all still apply and that's you know

i'm a huge proponent of the belief this conviction that being conscious of them allows us to live more conscious lives too not just to phone these automatic patterns that we can get stuck into but now to to move through our lives really as mythical heroic experience So I'm going to do a quick plug here. Yeah, geez. I'm here. Yeah. So my wife and I have created this program we call immersive art meditation, which, by the way, she, oh, wait, wait, wait.

Okay. I mean, I did mention it last time. I did mention it first time. But for people who are just hearing it for the first time. Yeah. By the way, we're starting this program again. We're starting these sessions again. They are, I'd like to describe this focused art experiences through the lens of guided meditation.

So, yeah, so we'll focus on some of my pieces that specifically the Edge of Myth series, which is a seven-part spiritual and psychological journey featuring different deities from different parts of the world, representing different phases of the hero's journey. nice so every session will go into the storytelling will go into what is being represented through the art and how that relates to our actual lives too and and each of those pieces in terms of the journey i can tie back to a certain point in my life where i've experienced that for myself so i can say that there is there are personal stories that have gone into the inspiration of each one of these pieces.

But the whole idea is this mission that I have of people being able to realize in their real lives through mythical art, the connection between the myths and their real lives. So that's one of my favorite parts of each of these workshops is being able to see people make these connections between these realizations between the different parts of the journey and something that's happening within their own lives,

perhaps something that is happening in someone else's life that they know. And they say, like, wow. Like, I know someone who's going through this, you know? Yeah. And we have a thing called, we created a thing called the Journeyers Journal, which allows participants to reflect on each one of these questions,

each one of the different themes coming through the session. And I like to think of it as like a living journal, because, you know, You're going to be going through your life, and each of these patterns are going to be repeating throughout our lives. So you can look back and say instead of it being arbitrary and random, you can say, what did I write down last time about this going through immersive art meditation that I can then incorporate into this experience I'm having right now? So being able to have a conscious experience of that phase of the journey in your actual life. what what like what happens in that in that immersive art meditation are you is someone drawing is someone singing like like walk us through what it is like give us an example yeah absolutely so so we'll feature

one of the pieces of artwork from from that series and it'll be one of the seven and we'll go into i'll go into the details the storytelling talking about that that figures journey, you know, what they represent and also my own story as relates to that piece, right? And we've had, you know, in our first one, we had kind of an intimate group of people. We had around eight people per session. And so just a good size of people to be able to, you know, relate questions. It can be very conversational too. So while I'm talking to definitely invite people to ask questions or post comments and

you know just we love the engagement you know yeah and so once i've gone through the piece then helena has a visualization she'll lead us through a meditation together and we'll each go through you know a journey that she has crafted that really speaks to the heart of each one of those pieces that really speaks to whatever the theme is that's coming through that piece so we can again getting a felt presence experience of what it's about not just conceptual not just theoretical but embodied you know and i have to tell you i have she does a wonderful job there have been some times where i come out and it's just so cathartic i'm literally in tears by the end of it it's just wow it is super powerful and um and we want to give people a chance to to work on their journals and reflect as well

as well. So what we've done in the past is we would, you know, like break people into pods or pairs. And so they would be able to reflect off of each other and, you know, work on the, you know, that's part of their journals and then come back and talk about what, you know, what's coming through for them. So see, yeah, it's very interactive. And one of the questions that we get to in terms of immersive art meditation, like do people create art while they're in. in the session. It's usually focused around a pre-existing piece, but we have had a session, like the session with Freya, right, where people drew their version of a goddess. So it would break out the pencil, paper, the colored pencils, and people will be able to draw their version

of the goddess. So being able to tap into their own sense of love, self-love, and flourish. is so much of what she represents. Yeah. That sounds therapeutic in so many ways. Sometimes, you know, we already spoke about language and the limits to language. But what happens when you're immersed in a story, you're being inspired by imagery, and then you yourself are actually creating that imagery? I think it shows a more true picture of where you're at and the interpretation.

of that goddess or that journey or you know i i think on some level too it speaks to the idea of um you know we think of mythology as this story but not many people think of mythology as an ever-changing story an example i think of is you know the myth of sycophis where people see that as this guy rolling a boulder but the older i get the more i realize how heroic that is like that guy's going to do that every day and accept that like like that like that's going to do that every day and accept that like that That is heroic on some level to realize the amount of, you know, what you're doing. Like, you're just going to do that every day and be okay with that. Like, on some level, you could see that as like, dude, what the fuck is this person doing?

They're just going to do that. A bunch of dummies. But then if you think maybe that person has thought about that. Maybe that person understands that what they're doing is for a higher good. Maybe that person understands that they're doing this thing. And they're, they've already thought about that. and they still do it. Like, that's, that's like the definition of heroism on some level.

So I see these myths is changing. As I get older, I'm like, I was the dummy. I never even saw that aspect. I never saw that perspective. You know, so myths can teach us this new perspective. And it changes as we change on some level, right? Yeah. Yeah.

No, most definitely. And going back to the multifacetedness. Yeah. Right? Like, whenever I hear somebody say, like, oh, it's this and not. that. Right. Yes.

There's just always this kind of intent that goes off my brain like, are you sure? There can be just some things that are just so kind of off the mark. You know, it really is just kind of a lens that that person puts on. It's not really true. Yeah. But yeah, the more I look at things, the more I, you know, I've, you know, turned. I've always been like a really curious person. or I've, you know, turn things around in my hand.

Yes. And see the different sides of it, you know, how there can be, even there can even be meanings on this side that seem to be contradictory to the ones on this side. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, God, you got to respect paradox. It's just, it's just written in all around this.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. So tremendous. respect for for the what seemed to be contradictory meanings which are actually complimentary which actually exists on the same thing right but you know like my you know my journey with fatherhood well speaking to the you know the ever pushing aspect right yeah being being a stepfather I do a lot of the same

thing throughout the day right day and day out like we have the same kind of morning routine we have the you know right a lot of structure that's that's built in right a lot of things that we just kind of do this that we kind of do a lot of the same thing every day right we definitely have variation we definitely have enlightenment and fun we definitely live we definitely live fun lives right um and you know being a stepfather what that means what you know why holding that means I consciously step into this family. I consciously, like, I was a bachelor for many, many years. Yeah.

You know, like very insistent for most of my life, right? And even, you know, there's this, from, you know, you hear this from family, like, when are you going to get married? Or when are you going to do this and that? And I was like, no, no, it's not what I wanted to do. There was no part of me that wanted to do that for a long time. Right. And I had to come to that realization.

I had to come to that place in myself, and it was actually during lockdown. It was during, you know, when we were all inside and horrible as that was, you know, for some people, I think for a lot of introverts, that was like, oh, goody, I get to do whatever I want by myself. Yeah. You know, but I definitely had that sense of how do I want to really spend the rest of my days? You know, how do I actually want to spend the rest of my life? me to think about that yeah right and so i finally got to that place where i'm like yeah i i want to be a father i want to be married i want to find that person right and it's it was it it seemed to just almost instantly appear in my life once i accepted that once once i incorporated that uh once i

got once I finally got to that place and it really it really hit me I really had the felt experience of yeah of that realization you know and so um so to me it's it's it's a tremendous honor you know and to know that I just like I chose Xavier as my son you know even before I like even before I knew him I'm like wow that is one amazing child like he sounds like an amazing human being i would love to know him you know and i would love to be an important part of his life you know so yeah yeah we it's the journey you know it's the journey and it's the journey and you really never know what is around that next corner too and you could be you could be going through something you could be going through a you know a challenge in your life and and it seems you know it seems like

can get kind of lost in it or whatever But to know that that can correlate with part of the story, to know that that challenge can actually be one of those phases and that there is a way that you can consciously move through it. And you can think like, well, you know what? This seems daunting, but it's actually all okay. You know, it seems like what can seem insurmountable can be passing, you know. And then that brings a relief to your life. Suddenly it's not just this arbitrary random overwhelming thing that's just burdening down upon you, you know, that there's there's something that you can, there's a way that you can approach it. There's a way you can think about it.

There's a way that you can move through it. You can be okay. You can be better than okay. You can be better than you came out, you know, better than you came into it actually so much of the time, you know. I do. It brings up, like, it's fascinating to me to think about the conversation thus far as we spoke about symbols and rooms and imagery. And even though these things are static on paper or, you know, we can look at an image of it, of a symbol, it gives us the courage to become that symbol embodied. Like, we can embody that symbol. Then we becoming the living symbol for someone else to see an action.

Like I get goosebumps thinking about like how powerful that transference is, right? Like if you study a symbol long enough, then you can become that symbol to someone else in real life. Boom. That's magic, man. That's power right there. Yeah. Very well said. Very, very, very, very well said to embody that symbol.

And that's, that sounds. to me like what you were describing in the beginning where like listen george when i create this artwork and someone can see it like that is that is transference like you have got the message of that symbol and you have successfully transferred that meaning for someone else to find you've become a medium for that symbol like that's i don't know man i i hesitate to find a better word than beautiful for that like i don't know if there is a better word for that It is. It is. It is. It's astoundingly beautiful and honoring. And, you know, going back to honoring. That's a great one.

The challenges that can actually lead to strengths on the other side too. You know, I spent like, I'm on the spectrum. I was diagnosed with Osbergers when I was like in high school and I've spent a lot of time not being understood by people. And, you know, there was a long period of time, like, kind of struggling to articulate myself and to be understood, you know. It felt like I had to try really hard to, you know, to form my words in ways that could connect with people. Yep.

And for them to understand, you know, especially, oh, my God, especially growing up, especially even like before you know diagnosed or whatever that type of thing just you know just growing up and things that may make sense to me but it may seem off to the person that that's sort of thing right so um so that desire that deep yearning to be understood yeah feeling that like there's this vastness that save like the vastness of storytelling this vastness within myself that needs to come out you know and so it comes out through the artwork and so i mean i'm being pretty vulnerable here in saying this but um i think a lot of a lot of that is that urgency

that comes through the artwork like let me let me show you this let me show you what i feel inside myself let me show you this immense beauty this immense vast world that comes through me through the work. And so, you know, there's a part of that that's self-expressive for sure, you know, but it's like what I'm focused on and what drives me is something of substance that goes even deeper than me and even, you know, even beyond this, you know, this person Matt Mays, right? It's, you know, it's what I am enchanted by that comes through me, right? and talking about becoming the symbol, becoming the thing. And the more that that enchantment takes hold,

the more that I become an embodiment of that. And that's what you feel through artists, right? It's what's coming through that artist that they feel coming through them, right? They then get to become an embodiment of that thing. And you can just feel it off of that creator. you know, whether you're a visual artist or a musician or philosopher, whatever it is that comes through you, that people can just feel that off of you, you know. So that's so much of where that comes from. And, you know, every piece of artwork that I create, I really, I throw, I pull it, I throw in all the tricks in the back, right?

I throw in everything that I'm curious about, everything that's, well, relevant and can be composed into a single image. You know, that's something I deeply love to do is take all of the things that are connected and relevant with the ideas that come through within that artwork and compile them into one thing. You know, compose them into one image. I really feel like more of a composer in a lot of ways. In fact, composition is my favorite part of creative process, right? Like, how you can weave the eye through the artwork, where the rest are, where the points of focus are. I love that, you know, and then from there, I can just slope down all the details and stuff.

I mean, I've been obsessed with detail. You know, my whole artistic journey. I've just always, I've always really loved going into the deep. details of things right so that part yeah just just an absolute joy for me but but the composition that's where it all has to come together is how you you know how you put it together how you how you choose to compose that piece um you know the intention behind it and you know i found so often that i can like i can put something there that may look cool at first and then And I'll realize like, oh shit, like that actually adds to the story.

Like actually, you know, that actually has a place, has a place there. Or by the opposite token, that there will be a negative space. I say negative space in terms of, you know, the artistic term like the, you know, the empty space. Right. Within something, the empty space around something, right? Where it'll be, seem like just the right fit for example. exactly that puzzle piece to go there. And then I'll put it in later and I'll realize like, wow, that was that was just made for that thing to go there.

Do you ever think like, I know that feeling, that feeling of like you created the piece, but you simultaneously created the most perfect piece without even knowing you made it? And you look back and you're like, holy shit, did I do that on purpose? How did I know how to do that? I love it. I love it. Right? That's so amazing.

It's, it's, oh my God, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, and, and, you know, and, you know, like, well, I love is, when someone will point something out within the artwork that perhaps I didn't even see there, right? Yeah. They'll see something in there and, you know, like, wow, well, I mean, that's just perfect, you know, when like not even I saw it. And then I can see someone points something out that just, you know, brings a whole piece together. And so one example that would be in the beginning of the Edge of Myth series, it's funny, I even use the words in the beginning, the piece is about, by the way, piece about Eve from Book of Genesis, right, is while I was creating this piece, and she has a duality about her, she has the, you know, the motherhood, the fertility, really the origins, and then you have the chaos. You have the garden on fire. You have the smoke rising from the trees, but then you have the dove with the olive branch in its mouth, the redemption, right?

Right. And then you have this jellyfish symbol. You have this jellyfish on her neck. Right. And at first, I put this there and I'm like, well, you know, I thought a jellyfish looks very feminine. It's very, you know, very cool. I think of it as very, you know, playful and, you know, feminine, basically. So I, and, you know, aesthetically, it looked very cool there and flowing. And, you know, with its tentacles kind of, you know, kind of floating upwards. And so as I'm, as I'm. drawing in this jellyfish my friend who at the time who was like watching me work on this comes up and he says did you know um a jellyfish is a symbol for eternal things i'm like whoa no i did not know that but when you consider the whole the whole cycle and the whole the whole story you know the legacy of humanity enduring throughout time you know going through chaos going through his trials and he had this this beauty of humanity that transcends all that is able to pass through all that you know so to me yeah things like that I'm like wow I mean that's just an uncanny and mystical and amazing in so many different ways yeah it's it's it's I think it speaks to the idea

that creation is create there's like we lack the again we lack the words to describe it but there's there is something that is creating through us communicating to us and when you can look back on that whether it's through you seeing something in there that you didn't realize you created or better yet someone telling you a story that inspired them that you had no way of possibly knowing or a symbol that you put on there. Like, like, it gets us so close. It allows us to touch the fire, if you will. You know what I mean?

To touch that fire that is unexplainable and be like, oh, my God, I am part of something so much bigger than this. And I'm so blessed to be able on some way to help other people see it. You know, I think so much in life, we talk about our deficits and we worry, we have this anxiety that we're not enough. But the truth is, everybody, you know, can't operate from a place of creativity. And when you do that, man, you are, you are becoming that fire of inspiration to other people. I think that you, Matt, are a fire of inspiration for people.

Man, I think the artwork is awesome. I think that the idea of immersive therapy, man, is like, it's cutting edge. And I love it, man. I'm super stoked to get to hear about it and think about it. man, what do you got coming up on the horizon, man? Is there going to be more? You have a new, do you have any, let me say it this way. What do you have coming up on the horizon that you're excited about? Oh, thank you. First of all, thank you, too.

I'm just so honored and it's just amazing, just amazing to be talking to you and amazing to be to be back here again. Vice versa. And, yeah. So the biggest thing that I've got going on, We're building up immersive art meditation. We're going to be starting those sessions upcoming early next year. We're trying to avoid the thing with the holidays

and really give ourselves a good runway to build it up and to have a good robust group going in. So we're really, really excited about that. And it really is kind of our brainchild. It really is kind of our biggest co-creation that we're passionate about. Love it. My wife, Helena.

And in terms of my own art right now, and I'm working my way through the goddess series, I call Visions Beyond the Glass, and it's an 11-part series featuring goddesses from different parts of the world. You have, some who are more well-known and some who are, I think more do should be given to, you know, but once were kind of more,

it should be more well-known, like Sedna, would be one of them on Inuit Aquatic Mother Goddess. She is kind of in the middle of the series. But yeah, I really wanted to do justice to representing different goddesses from different cultures, you know, and seeing them in their, using their magics or using their, you know, using their abilities. So being active through the,

artwork, you know, and not just like posing, not just like in a cool pose or something like that, but to really show them in their aliveness, right? Something I put a huge emphasis on. And going back to the Norse, I'm creating an Odin piece that I'm extremely excited about. And I tell you, I really had to, you know, I really had to wait until, you know, I really had to wait until I really felt the charge to go into that one, you know, because he just represents so many different sides. There are just so many different parts of his, of his story.

He just has so many different tales, so many different facets to him that, yeah, just one day I had this canvas and I just went in for this seven-hour session with the pencils and just did all the outlines and did his spear and gung-near. It's a spear that never misses, that always hits its target. And you have Gary and Frecky as two wolves, Hogan and Noonan, is two ravens, all these different parts of them.

But, you know, I've never seen, or how to say this, all the Odin artwork that I've seen seems to have a lot of the same type of elements, which is cool, you know, like his wolves and his ravens, very, very popular, his spear, of course. But nothing that really captures, like, so many of his different sides, so many of his different stories, right? So, you know, I think of this is like a really passionate Odin fans, Odin. And then lastly, I have, I call this my visual art. and storytelling masterpiece is my graphic novel series, the IHacker saga, which I've finally gotten to the point

where I'm putting into panels. Nice. Yeah, so I started this thing about five years ago. And I've always wanted to create a graphic novel ever since I picked up my first one at 18 years old. And you know, what I found. I found like you have to align the writer's vision and the artist's vision if you're if you've got two people creating it and you know what I've found is it's weirdly simpler but you know more straightforward if you if you have a story within yourself and you're an artist and you can write and illustrate it yourself like you know much like my first graphic novel The Crow James O'Barr wrote and illustrated that whole thing all by himself and as we know it's a cult class. classic you know absolutely so so yeah I just got completely enthralled in writing the story

you know in creating this the story and you know for a number of months several months it was like all I could think about so I was just pulling down the pieces you know the puzzle pieces and arranging them into this whole story and then after that I put it down and came back to a while later did all the storyboards all the you know all those those type of things to really get the visuals in there a bunch of concept art and then i'm like wow that was that was a that was a wild thing about work and then um yeah and even it's even got different languages they're like i'm creating literally i'm creating different languages for different cultures within the story so it's a whole it's a whole thing i mean it's it's going to take me

to take many many years to complete all of it but um yeah the more that i work on it the more you know i can save this with any artwork the more the higher degree of clarity the faster i can go because the more that you can and i would i would pass this on to any creators the more you can eliminate that resistance you know that like um what am i going to draw what am i going to you know like sit down break it down figure out you know like sit with it right really try and articulate it and then once like the more the more of that clarity that you can that you can have then the the faster you can go i mean i would say that clarity is synonymous with speed right so now that i know what i'm doing in the story i mean i had to write it first before

i would even know what to draw of course yeah right um so one has to come before the other but um But now being in this place, it's like I can really slope through those panels having all that clarity of, you know, how I wanted to look. Yeah, that's a great tool for people. And I think it resonates with a lot of people who find themselves up against, you know, whether it be writer's block or any sort of creative endeavor, you find yourself questioning sometimes. It's almost like the signal doesn't come through the noise sometimes. And you just sit there and you wait and you're trying to tune it in. And then, but yeah, the idea of gaining clarity to promote speed is it's a great point. And sometimes I think it's necessary to have those moments of, you know, there's a reason Tolkien's work took so long.

He too was creating different languages. You know what I mean? It's not an easy thing to do. And once you create a language, then you have to think about, okay, well, how does this language create a perspective? what would this person look like if they spoke that language? Is this a rough language? Is it a singing language? You know, it's it's life's work, man.

I see that in the patterns, man. It's wonderful. Thank you. If I could speak to that role. Yeah, please, man. What you got? And by the way, like, it's so cool to hear people make the Tolkien connection to you. That's another thing.

I'm humble and honored by that. And I'm just, I just think it's so cool that it comes up. And so I found that it's, it's, again, weirdly simpler to create these multiple languages simultaneously rather than one by one. The reason for that is because... Okay, let's hear it. I'm crazy. But the reason behind that is, say, starting with the sounds of different words, so different languages, right? So say you can listen to someone speaking a certain language.

This is how I like to think of it. So you can listen to someone speaking German or speaking Japanese or French, you know, and while you might not may or may not understand what's being said, you can understand that that's what that language sounds like. You know, you can hear what French sounds like. It has a certain flavor, a certain characteristic to it. Right. So following that same logic, starting with the sounds of the different languages first, like, you know, you kind of alluded to it just now, like which one, you know, like the, you know, you can have a one that sounds rougher, right?

Yeah. One that sounds more flourishy and smooth and more beautified, right? Starting with that and the different sounds of them, you start with those different sounds, then you can start to arrange the words based on which one, they sound like, which one they sound most like, you know? Is this one have more of a j? Or this one have like a kuh, that sort of thing. You know, those are very distinct from one another, you know. So starting with that. And then you can, then you can really articulate what those, what those words are. And I would really suggest being inspired by existing languages too.

So, for example, for those who watch Game of Thrones, if you know that the Dothraki, the race of horsemen, so their language was actually inspired by Mongolian, right? So I was able to find, so knowing that it's very helpful. And then I was able to find a free Dithraki dictionary online. there's a PDF you can find yes you can you can find a free Dithrocky dictionary online and then I looked at what are some of those sounds of that language right and so without like well you know I can I can compile those and say like which you know which ones of those kind of do I want to remix into this language right and so I haven't you know so I wrote out like what languages were have been inspired by which different languages right and it just

again like going for clarity before i even go for too much detail for too much articulation right like starting with this game up here with the understanding and the clarity and then you know yeah figuring out how it's a fun challenge it's a it's a fun it's a fun puzzle you know like creating these creating these different languages and you know that goes with different cultures too so of course you know how they how they dress how they look what their mannerisms are what their customs are things like that i mean really if you're i mean you're really going into world building you know yeah yep all that stuff takes i mean i've i've really long had a tremendous respect for writers for that reason yeah is because you have to be like the master of that universe that you're

creating, you know? And, you know, it's again, weirdly simpler if you were creating that whole world because no one's telling you what the right rules are. But there are definitely, definitely things that apply. You have to make it believable. That's the challenge is to take this invented world and make it believable. Yeah, I agree. It's interesting you bring that up. I'm a huge fan of like Brandon Sanderson and some of these other sci-fi, you know, sci-fi. or fantasy, you know, books that the idea of Patrick Ruthfist is another great one, but they create these worlds that you can inhabit on some level. And it's just an inspiration to creation.

But I see that same, the same thing that attracts me to world building is the same thing that attracts me to the world you're building. Like I think that you have those same skills and your share. sharing them with people, which a lot of people don't do. Like, I think that's super awesome, man. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Thank you for doing it, man. So, well, I would invite everybody within the sound of my voice to, whether you're listening live, tomorrow, or 10 years from now, to go down to the show notes and check out Matt Mays. Reach out to him. He's got an incredible collection of artwork. He sees the world. I think from this conversation, you get an idea of what it takes to

create different worlds and how he creates, more importantly, is a window into how he creates, which I think is magical. And go down, check him out. If you like this conversation, reach out to him. I know he does consultation. He does artwork. Him and his wife have a really cool practice of this immersive meditation. And, yeah, reach out to him.

And that's, ladies and gentlemen, that's what we got for today. Hang on afterwards, Matt, briefly afterwards. But to everybody else, thank you so much for spending some time with us. I hope we have a beautiful day. That's all we got. Aloha. Right on. Thank you, everybody.

George, this is a real joy. I've really been looking forward to this. Super awesome. And just a pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Right back at you, man. Well, hang on. I'll talk to you briefly afterwards.

And then we'll end here for these guys. Thank you so much to everybody. Aloha. Peace out.