TrueLife - Miguel Torrez - They Call Me Dangerous

Episode Date: April 10, 2025

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/INTRODUCTION: BROTHER OF THE REBELLIONToday’s guest is not just a man—he’s a reckoning.Miguel Torres was once a weapon in the gears of empire—military mind, corporate strategist, trained to move mountains without ever making a sound. But somewhere along the march, he heard the whisper—the sacred hum beneath the static. And he turned. Not away—but inward.Now, he stands unshackled at the crossroads of spirit and smoke, hosting The Conversation, Cannabis & Christianity Podcast—a sanctuary where the high meets the holy, and questions are lit like incense at the altar of awakening.Miguel is no preacher, but he delivers sermons with fire.No longer armed with orders—he’s armed with questions that peel back the sky.This brother doesn’t hand out dogma—he hands out torches.So we can burn away what’s been forced upon usAnd step into what’s always lived within us.As the Gospel of Thomas says:“If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you.If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.”Miguel is bringing it forth—raw, real, and righteous.A rebel.A guide.A spiritual arsonist with holy smoke in his lungs.Welcome to the fire, Miguel Torres.Let’s make this conversation the match that starts the blaze.https://ccandcpodcast.com/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Fear is through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shining. I hope the birds are singing. Hope the wind is at your back.

I have with me today an incredible guest, Miguel Torres. He's a warrior turned truth seeker, once a highly trained strategist, navigating military and corporate landscapes. Now the host of the convention, the conversation, cannabis, and Christianity podcast. In this space where smoke and spirit mingle, he challenges dogma and dives deep into faith, freedom, and the fire of Revelation. As the Gospel of Thomas says, if you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.

Miguel Torres stands at the crossroads, igniting conversation that burn away illusions and reveal the truth within. Miguel, welcome to the show. How are you today? I'm good. Thank you for inviting me, George. I appreciate it, man.

I am stoked to talk to you. I see the next evolution of creators coming up, man. And I put you in with all these incredible young people coming up And you're doing awesome stuff on the podcast. We have a lot of mutual friends. And it's a real treat to get to come and talk to you today because I've been seeing you on my radar for a while. And I've seen some podcasts you're doing. I think you're talking about cool stuff, man.

Maybe we could flesh that out a little bit. What is it that your podcast tends to kind of circulate around? Well, I, so I'll give a, not the long story, but a medium story. what I mean. Love it. So, so in the military, I was, when I entered the military, I was not, I was not a believer in Jesus. I was raised. I was born, of course, so let me give you, I'm going to give you some more background. As I started telling, I was like, okay, I got to go back over a little friend. Yeah. Okay. So I'm third generation U.S. on my dad's side from Mexico. Okay. My mom is Irish and English. And Latin America has a heavy footprint of Catholicism on it,

right? It's a big footprint of Catholicism on it. So when I was born, my parents were Catholic and baptized me Catholic and then converted Mormonism. And at 18, I left Mormonism and didn't want anything to do with anything with religion or Christianity and entered college and started looking at the start, you know, you're taking courses in college. You're all of a sudden, you're out of the K through 12. And this is, this is the 20th century, right? So this is happening in the 90s, 1990s. And so it's the timing of it matters. So during that time, a lot of stuff happened, decided to choose, finish my undergraduate degree in English and government. And during that time, I did not use marijuana at all until college, until the summer after I graduated from high school.

And I had friends that were using it in high school, but I never did. I was more athletic. And when I started using it, I was not a. an inspired student K through 12. I was not an inspired student. I was obviously about that. I wasn't I didn't pay attention. You know, it was it was it was it was very too, it's all too common among young people. Yeah. Yep. And uh, but when I started smoking, I actually wanted to learn. You know, I was, I was able to take the classes I wanted to take. You know, you have that transition from being under 18 to now I'm an adult. I'm in college classes and it's kind of like,

okay so I was actually inspired and I did a lot better than I did in high school. And but at the core of that was was some apathy, right? Because I just didn't have, I didn't have a grounding of my own identity. I didn't have a belief system that I could believe. It was at the time, I didn't realize what was going on. But like when you look back and it was like, yeah, I didn't know what to believe. I had this, this mixture of Mormonism and pop culture. Yeah. Mormonism and pop culture. Yeah. And I grew up in East Lansing, Michigan, where Michigan State University is. So there's 40,000 students that are just alone. So you got a, you got, you had a lot of influences.

And it was, it was a good, it was a good place to grow up. It wasn't bad. But, so yeah, so eventually in college, I got to a point where I was like, I can't keep living like this. I hit a point where I was like, I'm going to have some deep regret if I don't change the way I'm living. Yep. And, and this is, you know, I'll just leave it at that, you know, because you can, see people you see people every day you know and sometimes i'm sure i look like that person where i look like i may be exactly right and uh you know you see people older older people their age you don't know

but their face and their mortal frame is been uh you know if you plot a bunch of cliches but they kind of don't hit the point the right way you see people that just look discouraged and it's in their body and it's and it's usually unfortunately it you see too much of it in older people which kind of makes you wonder what happened yeah that led to that and that and that's why I quit and uh finished my degree and growing up I always had a fascination with the military they aim those those that advertisers know how to aim that stuff right they better believe it so yeah I looked in all the branches and uh the Coast Guard was the one that that I chose.

And that was because it was literally because it's more of a humanitarian service. I thought about really, because when you go into the Army, the Marine Corps, those are, and the Navy. The Navy, yes. It's a different type of terror on the water than it is on the ground, right? You know what I mean? Yeah. So I didn't want to train to kill. I came to that point where, and I'm thankful.

that I have nothing against other branches you know what I mean there's nothing against any of that stuff but I chose the Coast Guard because I just didn't want to train to kill it's more of a humanitarian service so I chose that

and during my career I came to I was seeking you know I'm going I had I was getting great evaluations yeah but I wasn't feeling fulfilled in terms of my whole life right and that was

just that that was not getting away from me like fulfillment was not getting I couldn't you know there was no I could try to try to stuff it down or try to quote unquote appease it you know like yeah maybe this maybe this is fulfilling maybe this is and we do that with all kinds of stuff you know we do that with with events entertainment we do that with all kinds of things and uh came to a place where I started listening to more pastors you know I was like listen to Joel Osteen too. Yeah, that guy's got some great inspirational stuff, man. That guy's a great speaker.

I do like Joel Osteen. I know a lot of people say a lot of bad things about him. I don't, you know, I can't, I can't imagine it being easy. And I say that because, you know, he's a televangelist, right? He's not one of those out there. He's not like the gym and, you know, they're out there, you know, but, but I was like, huh? And I was seeking.

And then from there, I started listening to some other people and, uh, came to the understanding and you said revelation the revelation of fire revelation it is it is it is a revelation and uh blaze pascal in his book uh the mind on fire i'm not sure if i'm saying it right in in french panse is p n s yes i don't know i don't know i speak french but in there he's talking about um oh man the point that i was going to have oh i lost it but either it's all good man there's a french talking about french i was like oh i don't know french and i's had a memory of something my kids. It's beautiful.

But you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of like there's so much in this little brief introduction that we've had right here. And I love, I'm going to take it back towards the beginning when like you start to see the anguish. When you start to see a life of unlived dreams and unfulfillment on the people that you look up to. Like that to me is amazing because I see it everywhere. And I see so many people that I love and I care about. never fully able to find the courage to become the very best versions of themselves. And that sounds like at a young age, and somehow with the introduction of cannabis,

all of a sudden your awareness of what you want to do, of what you want to become, of what father you want to be. You know, in a weird way, these people with the anguish on their face, they taught you that. Like, they walk around with a smile on their face, but all the wrinkles, all the animosity and all the down anger that's pushed down is really teaching the youth, like, don't, be me. Don't go give your life to a company that doesn't care about you. Don't go sit in an office where you're treated less than who you really are. And for you to find that at such a young age and start living the path, finding people that you look up to, hearing storytellers like Joel

Olstein or Ram Dass or any of these people that speak to the youth through eternity. Like this is an incredible way for us to move forward into a future where kids can find things they want to do. And if I can just take it back to cannabis for a minute, it's what was it? Like all of a sudden, like you start using this plant, this plant medicine that allows you to see the world unfold in a way that is beautiful. Like that's mind-blowing to me. It's pushed to the side. Hey, don't do this evil drug over here. You're going to be a drug addict if you start smoking that crazy stuff. But that's not the truth, right? Like what, maybe you could speak a little bit more about the idea of what began to change in the world

around you and your relationships when you started building a relationship with cannabis. Okay, so, excuse me, I'll wrap up the first question too. Yeah, of course. So during the time of the military, I did come, I did have that revelation. When you're talking about the fire revelation, I did have the revelation. It was like, hmm, you want to talk about it. When you have that, you actually want to talk about it, right? Yes.

So in the military, you can proselytize but not evangelize, but still a lot of people would want to talk about, you know, in other words, you can't just go up. Even if somebody's like, hey, I'm kind of curious, you still just can't, you can't evangelize. So during the course of, during, towards the end of my career, I was starting to realize that my career would could end at right around 20. I promoted enough to, to, to be vetted for, for a pension so I could retire. That was great. And that, thanks, man. And it was good.

And, and around that time, this, the thought of it, just the name, the title was in my mind. I didn't, you know, I've described it. some people say popping into my head, I don't think it's something that popped into my head. I think it was given to me. The title is given to me. Now, I'll go back a little bit prior to that, a few years before that. This is the second half of 1920, 1910s, rather. My mother had a bad back surgery, horrible, and extreme pain, depression, and one of her friends

from church, because she came out way worse than she went in. And she came out, there was contaminated products. So she's got, now she's on antifungals because the spinal fluid, cerebral spinal fluid, she's basically, she came down with encephalitis from the hospital. So she's depressed, very depressed, right? She came in there better than she came out. And she doesn't have a good picture for a future. And one of her friends from church has multiple sclerosis and gave her a couple of joints. She didn't know what they were, because I was trying to, I was talking to her, this is after the Farm Bill Act, right?

I'm telling her you can find this stuff online now. You can buy it. And she didn't really follow my direction. She listened to her friend, and that was perfectly fine. So these things all were coming together at the same time. And I was like, you know what? That's what I'm going to do. So that's the first one.

The second one, the question about marijuana and, you know, so the stigma of it is thick. It's still thick. And in the 90s, it was interesting because, in the 80s, you always had, you had that type of style. You know, when you think of decades and styles and genres, that stuff copies real life, right? That stuff is, and it also influences real life at the same time. You know, art copies life, life copies art.

Right. It's a, it's a funny, the cacophony of, the eunuchy of it is funky, man, it's funky. And so in the 80, in the 90s, you know, you had rap and hip hop hit the scene and and i mean the scene i mean the public yeah beyond beyond just major metropolitan cities beyond just new york la chicago and detroit stuff like that you know now all of a sudden you're hearing it on the radio and you have m tv and they're pushing it on and mtv is at that time they were playing music videos they weren't all about tv shows they were like these are this it was like radio for the television right yeah yeah they some of those videos were really stupid

and some of them they were actually trying to convey something meaningful. And that is the thing about it, is that everybody wants to say something meaningful. I think everybody wants to be remembered. And in the 1990s, it was the recent, I, you know, I see this special relationship between decades, right? Yeah. 30 years from now, the 20s will be replayed. The same way the 90s are being replayed right now. It's generational.

It's not magical. It's just the way, it's the way we human beings. being is operate and advertise and realize that there's still people from the previous generation. We can't always advertise to the young generation because there's many others still a lot. Yeah. So getting a lot of 60s stuff in the 90s, right? 60s rolling in. And now think about this.

So now you're hearing hip hop with 1960s sampling, right? You have this whole counterculture, civil rights counterculture influence that's being remembered by our parents because our parents were the one we're living in, right? And we're here living it. And it's like, now it's different. It's not just Motown. Now it's hip hop and rap. And what they're talking about is a bit different.

Yeah, of course. And it's also in the rock and roll. I mean, it's not just rapping hip hop. Yeah. You got, now you have Caucasians doing rap. Look at Eminem. I mean, Eminem is like, it's kind of like, wow, this is kind of interesting. Sorry about that, man.

I didn't realize I had my email still pulled up. I hear that when sometimes when I'm on your end of it. And I'm like, ooh, they didn't do that. I apologize. I'm sorry, man. Minor, man. So with all that stuff happening at the same time, it's kind of like, wow. And you see marijuana everywhere.

It's on the videos. People are singing about it, talking about it. And you start to realize it's not just rap and hip hop. It's Willie Nelson. Yeah. It's Willie Nelson. It's kind of like, wait a minute. This is kind of like national character that has come to embody like wholesomeness

and the way of American history and how you're supposed, you know, the image of him that was portrayed. Yeah. You know, the one of Bob Dylan kind of got, you know, he's still there. But Willie was somebody different, you know, he was kind of like he's a country dude. Yep. He's not just drinking. He's saying alcohol will actually get you killed earlier. Yep.

He's saying you need to be smoking this stuff because. Yep. And that's just the whole influence of it, right? People are trying to make sense of it and the Internet isn't as basically. as it is now. You can't, you can't just hold something in your hand and get a bunch of quick answers that may or may not be the level of depth that you're looking for. So you're looking this stuff up, you know, it's a little bit different. You got to know people. You got to, you got to really, you got to really seek outside of your hand. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So,

yeah, it was, you know, I don't, you know, looking back at it and I, I will, I'm going to bring this into the story. So in middle school, I had a spinal injury. I had, I had. a diving accident. And I should have been dead or required a polygic repair. You know, I should have been, but I didn't. And I think that when I'm looking back, I was kind of like, you know, I think that affected me a lot more than I realized. And my body adapted and I was still athletic and I still did all this stuff.

So you kind of think that it's not there anymore. But you start to realize that as you learn more about head injuries and stuff, it's kind of like, wow, I'm sure there's a lot of people that haven't been. treated. And then you start to think about the fact that cannabis and the end of cannabinoid system, and I'm bringing it back up to current times, you know, no worries. For 21st century, and you're just kind of going, hmm, this is really strange that you have this plant on the schedule list of it has no medicinal value, no medicinal value. And it's kind of like, huh. But and just like a lot of people that I have in my podcast, a lot of people you meet too,

Sometimes it's like when you're young and in those situations, you're sensing that you need that thing, but the environment that you're in is full of everything I was just talking about, right? There's no, there's no, there's no, okay, let's sort some things out. Let's have a conversation. There's no, there's no calmness to it. And that's, that's what's kind of funky is that I think that, you know, the world's anxious, the world's, you know, it sounds.

And when I say anxious, it's kind of like it sounds kind of light, but it's, it's heavy. That, that's anxiety, right? The world is full of anxiety. And marijuana slowed it down. It was just kind of like, hmm, I was able to just unwind a bit more. And now here I am. And I just turned 50 last week. Congratulations, man.

I'm right there with you. Right on. So the last three years since I've retired in 2021, it's kind of like, I think of it, this. It's it's it's it's not the way it was when I was in college. I knew that there's going to be different. And when I picked it up, the motivations were different. The reasons were different. Yeah. And that's what I'm getting at. It's like if we could if if if not we, I should say when marijuana is accepted legally by the federal government, I think, dang, let me turn this thing

off. I apologize, man. I think that that will, uh, that will change the way. it's brought out now. And I could go in a lot of different directions because you've got the recreation market. But I guess I'm saying is hopefully for people, for younger people, some people will come up with the idea that, you know what? This is doctors, you know, would say, we didn't have the right environment for this. You can't, you don't want to just sit down and watch TV and just watch whatever advertisements. Yeah, just whatever advertisements are thrown at you. And you pay attention.

and you're giving it your brain power. You're like, you're memorizing it and you don't even realize it, right? Yeah. Yeah, so clearing the mind. And that's a little bit digression. So I love it. So yeah, so now it's been,

I kind of think of it like Paul, after the road to Damascus, he went to the backside of Arabia for a few years to hang out and just sort things out. Of course. In his own head. And, you know, Paul was, Paul was, you know, he was a Pharisee, a Pharisee of Pharisees, and he calls himself that.

That's not who I was. I wasn't a Pharisee of Pharisee, but I'm saying that the time to sort out what it is I'm observing in myself was needed. And it's been good. It hasn't been bad. It hasn't been bad. It's been good. And it's a different thing now. It's a totally different thing.

And when I say a different thing, I mean my approach to it and how I use it and why I use it. But still some similarities because it is it is not a crutch. That is what is not. You know what I'm saying? So it's not a crutch. It's not one of those things where I go, oh, I got. You know, it's not like that because then that thing, then I'm a slave to it, right? Then I'm a slave to it.

And that's the thing about it. It's the approach to it is different. And this is where I bring in the pop culture concepts because that's where stigma gets put in. You know, you have the official messaging from the government, whatever entity, law enforcement, health care, whatever. And then you have all the stories that come on the tail of it. And that's what most people are saying. You know, now we do have that computer in our hand and we can just look stuff up. But there's so much crazy stuff out there.

You got to wonder, you know, it's just kind of like you got to really look. And seeking is important. I love it. Go ahead, George. I've been going, man. No, it's it's all relevant. And it's a beautiful segue into the ideas of which we were forced fed. We talked about education early on where, you know, a lot of kids, myself included, like you go to school and you're taught.

I don't even know if taught is the right word. A lot of kids, at least the Prussian school model that I was brought up in, there was so much propaganda. There was so much, this is bad. And you realize, as you get older, you start realizing these things that were taught to you were sort of a way to force you into a box to become a cookie cutter example of what the society wants you to be. You can be any of these things as long as you choose one of these things in a box. Like on some level, I believe that the programming in the 80s, like the Just Say No, and all of these incredible acts of propaganda drum the creativity out of the very American spirit that made us great.

And you start, as you get older, you start realizing. Like, man, this thing I'm smoking right here or this mushroom that I'm eating, wow, it gives me a whole different perspective on the world. And it ties in with religion because you start to understand. you go back and you start reading some of the Gospels, you start reading some of these incredible texts, and you start thinking to yourself, hmm, this sounds a lot like a sacrament.

This sounds like something I can commune with something higher than me. And you do, you start realizing there's way more, there's this huge spiritual component that's been eradicated from the school systems. There's this huge spiritual component that's been drummed out of people's lives. And now it starts to make sense why the people that are older have this look in their eyes

that's just dead. And they have this sort of, you know, resentment for a society because on some level they begin to realize that their life's been stolen from them. Their relationship with something higher has been taken away from them and fed back to them in the form of targeted ads in the form of this is your brain on drugs. And then you start realizing what is a drug? Why is Pfizer able to sell drugs? But my friend over here can't grow a cannabis plant. Why can't I eat mushrooms? Like, are you kidding me? I'm going to jump out of a window if I That doesn't sound right.

And you begin realizing, oh my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I have been heavily propagandized my whole life. And the absence of spirituality is a giant part of that. And everything you're saying, us, especially Gen X, was brought up on a 60s rebellion. And isn't it strange that now here we are at the age of influence? Oh, maybe there's something bigger at play. Maybe all these targeted ads that taught us about the 60s.

was gearing us up to be the leaders of the next revolution. And here you are, Miguel, talking to the youth, not only talking to the youth, but leading by example, by living a life worth living. You got pictures of a beautiful family that you're hanging out with the beach with, and your wife has a smile on her face. And your kids, boom, sitting over there proud at the beach. Like, that, my friend, is a good father. When I see a family together like that, that's what a father is. A father isn't someone that gets up and leaves their family every day for 12 hours. That's not a father.

that's someone who's chasing money to give the illusion of wealth and happiness. That's the wrong path, kids out there. That's the wrong path. Find out what you want to be. Find out who you want to are and pursue it with a passion that is unstoppable. That's what you've done. That's what so many people we talk to have done. And that's the message that's getting out, I think, with the whole cannabis conversation and Christianity podcast that you're doing.

That being said, my friend, I got questions stacking up here. So prepare you. Okay. Can this one comes to us from this one comes to us from Michael from Utah. He says, can cannabis be a sacrament, a way to commune with God, or is it just another tool for system fears? That's the question for me to answer. Yes. You know, for sacrament, you know, I don't think of it as a sacrament.

I, it's not that I don't have a respect for it. It's just that when I think of sacrament, I think of communion. And that's and that's where that's where this is why I think of it that way. Okay. Tell me. We go back to check this out, Genesis. So you had Kane and Abel, right? Right.

And I was talking about this with, I was talking about this with Dr. X a little bit ago. Love it. And so Kane was a farmer, right? He was, he was agrarian. Abel was a Shreppard. And when, so, okay, let me go back to this. Let me do this. Okay.

I don't think that the earth was populated with just Adam and Eve when it fell. When you look at it Genesis and you're reading it, it says, be fruitful and multiply. In other words, reproduce and have babies and reproduce and reproduce. And it says, God saw that it was good and it was very good. So I think the earth was populated. It was populated. And when it fell, population walked out. But the bloodline of the Messiah, whose plan was already in place, came through.

Israelites. And that is why the story is through the Israelites in the in the Torah and the own covenant, new covenant. So when, um, when they walked out, they had Canaan and Abel, Abel slew one of his animals and brought blood. The reason why that's significant is because when, when Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden, the angel, they, I just want to make this one point. They chose to eat from the tree of good and evil, knowledge of good and evil. They had the opportunity to eat from the tree of life. They chose the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And when that decision, when I think it's like, okay, we like everything we have,

but we want to be in charge of it. We want to be the ones who decides good and evil and not the one who gave it to us and created us. So that was a decision. When they did that, the first thing that happened after they're expelled, God clothed them with the skin of an animal. There was bloodshed. There was a sin committed bloodshed, and he clothed them with the skin of the animal because the plants that they had covering them were not going to be sufficient enough.

Now, this speaks to effort and grace. the effort the farmer is is working right and this is this is this symbolic i i eat a lot of produce love it i love it the farmer is working the blood is the blood it you raise the animal but it's the blood it's the animal's blood not your blood so that is why abel's sacrifice his his offering was committed was was accepted and a uh canes was rejected because it was from his own efforts. It went right back to his parents in their decisions saying, we want to be the arbiters.

I'm going to decide what I bring to you to make me right. And it's going to be my effort, not your grace. Not going to be your grace towards me. I'm going to try to prove to you that I can do it on my own. And with that, you have sacrament. And this is when I think of the sacrament, It's the blood and the wine and the bread that is the body and eat this in remembrance of my body. I don't believe that it turns into his body in my mouth in my body.

I eat it in remembrance of his body and I drink the wine in remembrance of his blood. So that's the reason why I don't think of it as a sacrament because it's the look at I grew this. I grew this plant. This is my offering and this is saying I've come to that. place where and it is it is a it's a you know it's come to that place where it's like yeah that's that's me giving effort and and yeah i i'm accepting your grace because that's the way i can live on this earth i've tried my effort i was in the military right right where you know it's like perception is reality right you are trying all the time and in this life people are doing it whether they realize it or not

whenever they pick up this phone and they do something on social media it's like And it's just funny. It's just a funny thing. I'm not talking about, we're not talking about podcast stuff. I'm just talking about like, and I do it too. It's just kind of like scrolling. Scrolling. It's just kind of like, wow.

My effort is being wasted. Yeah. My effort is being wasted because I'm wasting my time to scrolling. And so when it comes to the sacrament, that's the reason why I don't think of it as a sacrament. I do, I receive communion. Love it. That's my sacrament. I love it, man.

So there's a one, can it take me hot? Can it help me commune with God? You know, I think that's a personal subject. I think that it can be dangerous if you make it a talisman. If you make it a talisman, because then you're all of a sudden saying, I can't be close to my maker unless I have that. And there's no difference between that and saying, I need the pastor to pray for me because I can't pray for myself.

You see what I'm saying? I do. You replace a person with a plant or another object. It's a one-to-one relationship, and that's the way I look at it. And that's the way I don't see it as me trying to get there anymore. You're already there. Exactly. Exactly.

And the approach is the difference. Yeah, I love it, man. That's really well said. This one's coming to us from, this one's coming to us from Haley from New Jersey. She says, if Christ turned water into wine, why is cannabis condemned? Who benefits from keeping it forbidden? didn't. So, you know, this is a cool thing because I had those questions, too. I was getting pizza one time. And seriously, I was getting pizza one time. And this guy and I, he just, you know, he noticed me and I

noticed him. We're at the checkout counter. And we both had to wait for our pizzas. We both sit outside at some tables. And we both still noticing each other. It's just kind of like, hmm, something, you know, it's one of those things. And eventually we start talking. I don't remember. we started talking we started talking and uh he had a 30 year career as an evangelical and i told him that i do a podcast and i told him the podcast and uh he came on it was a guest he was a great guest and he was talking about it and i had the same questions like what is the deal with so many denominations saying you can't have alcohol when it's in the bible there's no one saying don't drink now there is scripture and they're saying don't be drunk don't don't there is there's guidance in there but the first

recorded miracle the first recorded sign the gospel of court in john is a you know it's one that's considered sign the first one that's recorded is turning water to wine just like haley said yeah and uh so when you think about that i think about that and i asked i asked him uh pat Fiori. And his answer was really interesting, but it makes sense. He said many of them never turned it off from prohibition in the early 20th century. They just didn't turn it off. When the government banned it, they kept it banned. And when the government lifted the ban, they thought, hmm, might as well just keep doing this. Yeah. And he also had some, you know, so that is, that is a, that's a human decision, right? And these are.

are these are yeah this is where this is where living in a fallen world you know you got to seek because everything you're fine yeah may not be the truth but uh but yeah that was his answer to that so now what who do i think benefits from that you know you know that's there's a lot of people that are that are going to be suffering from it and benefiting from it and it's unfortunate but when it comes to cannabis again that that it was it was it was a medicine in the 19th and 20th century early 20th century, and then it was prohibited, taken off. And then you had the campaign against it. And now that campaign is trying to be rolled back.

But when it comes to the cannabis, you know, I view it like this. I actually should have probably started off this way. I view it as a part of creation. It's not the devil's. I heard you say it earlier, and that's why I was like, yeah, exactly. It's not the devil's lettuce. It's a part of creation. And when you think about it, it's like this is, if we try to say, that's bad, that's bad,

That's bad, that's bad, that's bad. It's actually saying God's creation is bad. And we people are saying that about ourselves. I do believe that we're... I do believe in the creation account. I don't believe in evolution. I believe in the creation account. And I believe that we are an animal,

but we're the only animal with our maker's image on our face. And that is significant. There's no other animal that has its makers' image on its face. So if we think about it, if I think about it like that, it's like, hmm, this plant came this way. These mushrooms grow that way. They do what they do intentionally. That's the way they were designed. They're not a creation from the enemy, as if the enemy could create something. And I say the enemy, Lucifer, Hasatan, accuser of the, accuser of the brethren, accuser of people because it's just just it's women too yeah the riddle the one who's always

condemning you and trying to get you to do it to yourself yeah yeah all these things you did wrong look all these things you did wrong so in scripture it bears out that he cannot create it cannot he if you go back to uh moses if you go back to israelites in egypt and they're leaving in the ten plagues yeah disney made a cartoon about it looks all yeah yeah but but think about this part right here the magicians and the sorcerers could duplicate everything that Moses and Aaron were doing. They brought in frogs. They brought more flogs in. They didn't remove the frogs.

They couldn't solve the problem. They compounded the problem. Yes. Same thing with the water turning to blood, the Nile. The thing that stopped them and warned, and they, this is when they were like, this opened their eyes. When they turned, when they being Moses and Aaron turned, dirt into nets or listers or fleas they turned dirt into life and that's when the magician said this is the

finger of god because they could not create they can only do more damage and that's how they were guiding the leader of that nation yeah with from that perspective so when i think about that i'm going hmm the marijuana plant devil's lettuce he can't make anything so why it just sounds good right it just sounds like it's going to get people to go yep that stuff's bad the devil's lettuce it's what he dresses his sandwiches with yeah and uh you know what I mean and uh I know and that part is really disrespectful and and at the same time I understand pastors were under their when they was banned it was banned When it's not banned, they're up against a different thing. But to actively campaign against it as if it were truly the devil's lettuce, you know, I think a lot of them are going to have regrets.

Yeah. I think it's really well said. And to me, when I hear the way you put it, it does seem as if there are so many people. And maybe it's on some level, I think it's this giant test of like every one of us can create. every one of us has the ability to imagine a life that you want to live. But there's so much distraction out there. And there's so much shame and guilt that's flooded to you through targeted ads and you're not enough. And it's the test.

For everybody listening to this, it's the test. Will you stand up in the faith of yourself, in the faith of God, in the faith of a higher power? Whatever it is that people out there believe is bigger than them. Maybe it's nature. Maybe it's Buddha. Maybe it's Mohammed. Whatever it is for people out there that they believe. leave in something bigger than them, that is a call to action to create.

Believe in yourself in a way that no one else will. And you will see people begin. You will inspire people. It will become contagious. And you will begin to find a love that burns bright in yourself that you didn't know you had. And now all of a sudden you have this abundance of light that people are like, hey, man, what are you doing?

You got a big smile on your face all the time. Hey, man, can you help me out with this thing? And just the act of creating in your life sends abundance. not only to you and your family, but to everybody around you. And it's something, it's a birthright. It's something that was given to us by the divine. Like, we have that spark of the divine inside of us that is willing to light up like a forest fire and illuminate possibilities around you if, if you're willing to believe.

And like, that's where faith is to me. It's, it's magical. And I love what you said about the ideas of people duplicating and not having the power to create. Because there's a lot of people out there that, don't want to see the creation spark. It scares them. Maybe they get nervous about, hey, stay away from that stuff.

You might start creating some things. And back to the idea of scrolling. Like, you know, I believe that social media, AI, the large language models, these are the greatest tools ever given to the people. The kids using them today are far beyond. We've already talked about Dr. X. Haley's another one of them.

Like all of these young kids coming up, Clint Kyle is another one of them, all these people that are coming up as the next generation of creators. They're using these tools to reimagine what is possible on some level. And it's just amazing to me. So if you find yourself looking at these tools and being a little bit nervous about them, just think about this.

Here's the thing I use with my daughter. And it's, okay, when we talk about screen time or scrolling, the rule in our house is create, don't consume. And I think it's really done well for my family. If you're going to be online, use an art app. Start building art. Put your art out there. If you're going to get on the internet, find something inspiring.

Switch your scroll speed from politics to artwork or from politics to poetry. And watch, just watch the way your awareness unfolds. It's so magical. And I love it. If you look back to the Gospels too, wasn't someone, was it, was it Peter that was talking to the burning bush? Like that seems like a pretty big reference right there. That was Moses. Moses.

Moses, though, we're talking to a burning bush. Like that to me, right? Yeah, there's a lot of imagery. If there's even more imagery and you're in your warning, wow, what does that actually mean? Yes. So if you go to Ezekiel, there's commonalities between Ezekiel and Revelations. And that is the wheels, the beings that they saw.

They saw the being. And this is where it's just kind of like, wow, this is actually not cut and dry. This is not everything that I'm hearing at some Sunday service. is when you think about the book of Enoch being left out of the canon, in the book of Enoch being verified as being, you know, it's authentic. Yes. And Enoch, he's talking about world stations, different world stations, and portals to different world stations.

And Enoch is interesting because the watchers that came down, they fell for the same tricks, the same temptations that the humans did. Yeah. And they started having children with the humans, and that's where the Nephlin came in. And the watchers were supposed to be advocating for the humans. But because they fell as well, they needed a human to advocate for them. And that's why they got Enoch. And Enoch went and petition for them. And their petition was denied.

And what they had, this is what happened to them. This was just kind of like, wow. He said, cover them with rock, cover them with sharp, cover their faces with sharp, jagged rocks so they see no light. Wow. That's the 12 watchers. And those references are in scripture. And James and Jude, they reference it. I think it's James or Jude.

One of the two, they talk about it. And Ezekiel, so I'll go back to that, Ezekiel, the burning bush and these fantastical things. It's amazing. You know, we get, we get pictures of it. We get pictures of it so we help to help us understand. Yeah. You know, you know, and just talking about, you know, in revelations, the, the animal had all these, there's four animals, a lion, a bull, an eagle, and a human face. And they had wings and they were touching each other.

The tips of their wings, they had four, six wings. And they're touching each other at the tips. And covering their wings on the eyes and the outside are eyes. and they fly around the earth. In other words, he sees everything. And in the proverb, it's clear, he says, death and destruction are known to the Lord, how much more the human heart and mind.

There's nothing hidden. And these things, when you start to think about that, and you start to think about, and you read the descriptions of some of these, I don't know if you call them creatures or N. but you're going, this is not what I always hear when I hear scripture. There's a lot of, it's very deep, it's very mystical. It's, it's, it's, I will say it's fantastical because you're talking about, you know,

you're talking, those four images, the, the lion, the bull, the eagle, and the human. They all have meaning and significant stuff. I don't want to go over all that. It's good because I want to, you know, it's good to, because I mean, this person's question, or I can't remember if there's a question. Somebody else answered your question. But it's good to help, you know, sometimes we've got to seek this stuff ourselves. You have to. Like, it's the only way.

You've got to walk on your own path. And you can listen to people until you're ready. And you can find inspiration until you're ready. But the true quest becomes when you find your road to Damascus. The true quest comes when you start taking that first step on the path. And I believe wholeheartedly that so many, like cannabis, mushrooms for me have been an incredible revelation. Like there is something that happens under seven grams or 10 grams of mushrooms where you are in a different realm. And for me, I would look back at Aquinas or some of these ancient mystical texts like the cloud of the unknowing.

Look back to the mystics of the Middle Ages and start reading what some of these people were in communion with. like there is something so beautiful, so divine that's desperately trying to get your attention. And once you begin tuning into it. And for me, it was mushrooms. Like I was able for the first time in my life, like I found myself in this mystical state where I saw my life in a way that was completely different than I ever have before. And all of a sudden the scripture start to make sense. All of a sudden you realize, oh my gosh, this whole idea of time is like, it's present. I'm in the future. I'm in the past. And that's when all the illusions begin to fall away. And I'm not saying people have to use mushrooms to do or cannabis to do it. It happens through breathwork. It happens through revelation. It happens to inspiration. It happens in beautiful times when you're deeply in love with the people around you. You get this feeling. But that feeling, I think, on some level is beginning to increase at a level that is changing the world we're in. I feel it, Miguel. Like, I see the people that I talk to and I listen to your stories. and other people's stories, and I see this sort of divine spark that's beginning to envelop around us, and it comes with faith.

What do you say about? In your opinion, do you think we're on sort of the next step of becoming back in communion with the light? Or do you see us on this revolution? What do you think? You know, that's, you said it great. You said it great, George. So I'm going to answer that.

But first I remember, I did remember that reference from Blaise Pascal. What he was saying is that reason can only get you so far. then you have to have a revelation. Yeah. And he's credited with being the father of the modern day computer, right? This guy was very intelligent. Right. And he's saying, you can't do it unless you have a revelation.

And that's why I brought it up because you were talking about the fire revelation. So the thing that's kind of interesting. So because I did just, I brought up revelation, the book revelation. And in that, it's kind of like, you know, people, I'm not, I'm not a doomsday prepper. I'm not talking like that. I'm just reading. You know, I'm just reading it, okay? But the world is getting darker.

I don't believe that the world is getting better. I think it's getting darker. And using what you said, a great way for a light to shine is with a dark background. Of course. So as this world is getting darker, I do believe, I do understand. observe what you're saying that there's that there is a lot of light shining yeah and it's it's in sharp contrast to the darkness of this world yep and that's there's a there's a lot of scripture man a lot of stuff's coming to mind man there you know in the scripture jesus says my people suffer

for lack of knowledge and that is why we do what we do we're trying to share with people so they have knowledge. Yeah. We're trying to share with people so they have knowledge because we can't make up their mind for them, but we can, we know what it means to us and how profound it is. And we want to share it with other people. And that is the calling. That is, that is, that is really, you know, I was listening to, I think I was listening to, the Reverend Doctor. It was you had, you had, you had, you did one yesterday, right? I did. And I was listening to Reverend Dr. Jessica. Yeah. And she was talking about you. And I didn't catch all of it. I didn't, I had an appointment, but I didn't, I was, I was watching that. And, and this is, and this is not a critique. This is just something I heard because sometimes I think, and I'm not, there's not a critique at all. It's just that sometimes we, we get into this doing or being. And the scripture is clear. All the, all the, all the, all the people, even his own disciples were saying, what do we have to do? To get into heaven? Or what do we

have to do to do the works of God. And he said, he didn't give him a list of 10 commandments. He gave them the new covenant, which is the currency of faith. He said, the doing is believing. And when you believe, you will become, you will be. It won't be something that you do. It will be what you are. Yeah. And all the things you do are a product of that. Yeah. And that is a, that is, something that we human beings get messed up all the time. I mess it up too. I mess it up to. I'm not,

I got to do this. I got to, I got to, I got to, I got to, there's a worry or a fear and anxiety. I got to do. And sometimes you got to pay attention to that stuff because you have to.

This is where, this is where discerning, the discerning in the human mind. Yeah. What we ought to do and ought not to do. And this is where I'm going to stretch more into there. Because the, the Holy Spirit,

the Holy Spirit, you know, that's, that is a, the concept of it, I think is sometimes, you know, the, the, the term is Christianese. It's like this language of like, you speak in this language that nobody understands when, when people are talking about some of these promises that Jesus and God make for us because they're good for us. We almost, I think you hear from the pulpit too many roadblocks being put in the way. And, and though, I'm going back. to the crutch idea, the callousman, you know, it's kind of like, it's a, it's unfortunate to see that happen because you see people, it's their lives. If they're believing it, it's their lives. And this is where, this is where we're living in a fallen world, you know, this world has got a lot of beauty, but it's fallen, you know what I mean? It's, you got all these things

existing in it, in the same time with love, compassion, joy. You have death, disease, sin, condemnation and brokenness. And it's a, it's not, you know, we make it more complex sometimes. And I think sometimes we can boil it down and go, you know what? It is quite simple. And then the advertisements come in and we have to just, we have to. You know, and that, and the thing is, that is, yeah. And that is, that is exactly.

And then the advertisements come in and we start to forget. Yeah. And I use the advertisements. a literal and metaphorical thing, right? Because it is literal. You're on that phone ads, metaphorical because our thoughts, right? So then the ads start coming and we start to forget. We start to think about something else and go, oh wait, I want to go back to that. Oh, wait, what was it? I don't remember. Oh, dang, I lost it. Those types of things, right? Yeah, it's all too human. And when that stuff happens, it can be discouraging because you're trying to get back to

something that brought your piece. Something that gave you a revelation of something that you, because you didn't have it before. And I agree with you. That stuff can happen with all kinds of things. Of course. It's not just the mushrooms. It's not just, it's not just cannabis.

It can happen in broad daylight. It can happen in your sleep. You can sit up praying, going, wow, what just happened? It's so true. It's so true. It's, on the topic of, darkness. Like I try to steer people into, like if you find yourself in darkness, maybe you lost a loved one. Maybe your wife has cancer. Maybe your son died. Maybe you left a

relationship. Like it's really easy and it's necessary in the beginning to be really uncomfortable with tests that are put in front of you. And you may not even know it's a test. Maybe you get fired or maybe you hit in a huge fight with somebody. But like these are all tests for you, ladies and gentlemen. Like the things, the tragedies that happen in your life, They end up becoming the greatest gifts you can ever have if you're willing to sit in the darkness and hold it for a little bit. It's really difficult. But it's the test. It's these tests around us.

It's the darkness that allows us all to shine. It's the darkness that allows us to see the light. Like, it's learning to see in the dark. It's rising up and stumbling and falling and trying to hunt in the dark. You can't do it in the beginning. But that's the world around you saying, I believe in you. Here's this test. It's insurmountable.

Let me see what you can do. That's the divine putting you in front of the challenges that no one can do. But guess what? You can do it. And the darkness around you guys, it's on some level the greatest gift for you. If you're willing to believe in yourself and tackle it. The darkness is so necessary. You can't have light without darkness.

And as the world gets darker, I believe we're raising champions. I believe that the faith is. born out of darkness and it is this darkness all around us and you're right like there's dark times right now you look at jobs getting cut people do people losing everything but you know what you have to lose everything in order to realize that you have everything you need like that's the ultimate faith and like that makes me excited because I do see the pain I do see the darkness but I see opportunities I see people rising up I see my neighbor that maybe people don't even look at the guy twice but I see what he's doing

Look at this guy. This guy lost everything and he's out here volunteering. This guy lost everything. And he's like, I'm going to go start working at the Boys and Girls Club. I'm going to start going to my community church. I'm going to go start volunteering at my school. All of a sudden, out of the darkness, is born community. And there's no, there's nothing that can start killing that light.

Like once people start coming together and seeing us as brothers and sisters, regardless of your race, your gender, your sexual, all of that fades away. And you just start being like, man, it feels really good to help. this person. I felt really good about myself by doing something for somebody who could never do anything for me. I'm like, that's what I see virgin. It's beautiful. I'm over here, chit-chatting. I know you got a hard out in about five minutes, and we're going to have to come back because I feel like we're just scratching the surface right here. But as we got land in the plane, let me just kick it back to you. Like, where can people find you? What do you have coming up?

What are you excited about? Thanks, George. I appreciate it, man. And I'm sorry. I apologize for the hard stop time, man. I am sorry because I'd like to keep going to. It'd be so fun. Um, the C, uh, C letter C, letter C, A and D C podcast.com, um, Facebook, LinkedIn, uh, YouTube. I am going to YouTube. Yes, I will be on YouTube. Uh, Dr. X is helping me get on to YouTube. So I am going to be going to YouTube. I'll be there in May. I'll be on YouTube in May, but also, uh, Spotify, podcast platform on Spotify iTunes. That's where you can find me and, um, you know, keep listening. to George, keep listening to stuff that seek, seek, keep seeking. Because you got to discern, you got to discern, you got to be able to understand and

and be open to something that you may not have been open to before. And that's part of stigma. It comes in all kinds of things. It's not just on plants, it's on people. It's on ideas. And it's on all kinds of things. But yeah, I'd gladly do it again. George is good, man.

I like what you do. It's cool, man. It's very cool. Well, it takes one to know one. I'm excited about what you're doing. I hope everybody goes down to the show notes, checks out the podcast, checks out what you got going on.

I think you got some brilliant material, and I love talking to you. Ladies and gentlemen, that's all we got for today. Lighter, thanks for always being here, man. You are an amazing human being,

and I agree with you on that. I had a heart out, but we'll get back to you. I answer you the questions as soon as I get off here, guys. Thank you so much to everybody. I hope you have a beautiful day. Hang on just briefly afterwards, Miguel.

Everybody else, have a beautiful day. We love you. Aloha. Thank you.