TrueLife - Moksha Journeys - Unveiling the Soul; A Sanctuary of Compassion & Psychedelic Renewal

Episode Date: August 30, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/https://www.mokshajourneys.com/Moksha Journeys is a collective of trained and experienced guides who come to this special work after decades working as therapists, coaches, doctors, herbalists, mycologists, research scientists, and experienced entheogenic facilitators from eastern and western spiritual traditions. We are devoted to supporting safe, effective, and meaningful sacred medicine journeys, in private, natural settings, that are custom designed to meet each client's needs. We provide professional guide services that include a wide range of beneficial strategies for personal development, self-healing, and spiritual exploration.Rose:http://linkedin.com/in/rosemoulinfrancoPrema:http://linkedin.com/in/prema-sagara-211721234Sienna:http://linkedin.com/in/sienna-terranova-664188260Rachael:http://linkedin.com/in/rachael-dougherty-76b48b277Drew:http://linkedin.com/in/richard-drew-snyder-273738bb One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody out there is having a beautiful day. If you know like I know and you see the world unfolding a around you, then you can probably see a sort of difference in the way the sun is shining. You could probably hear a new whisper on the wind.

And I think that that new whisper on the wind is the opening up of Moksha journeys. What we're seeing here today is, I think it's a slight miracle. It's the introduction of ceremony back into the mainstream. It is a way of bringing underground healing back to the people that need it the most. And I'm so excited that this team at Mokshah Journey says, given me the opportunity to talk to them today because I hope that this podcast goes far and wide and people thoroughly understand what's happening. And if I can't describe it, but I do have the people here who can't. So I'm going to introduce everybody and then I'm going to ask some

questions, but let me just tell the people who we're dealing. If we have Rose, Sienna, Rachel, Drew, and Premah, and you were going to get to know all of them today. I'm going to start off with our good friend Premah. If you have watched my previous podcast, then you realize a bit about the background with which Premah came. Amazing individual. Prima, how are you doing today? And what are you most excited about in this opening world of Moksha journeys? Thank you, brother. I couldn't be more excited about every single thing that we're doing. You know, I'm doing super well. My health is great. And all of the things that we've been working so hard for so long to bring forth, they're fully manifesting. And,

it feels like a huge time, you know, for our collective, for the Mochha Journey's Collective, what am I most excited about? Well, you know, the Moxha Stack is something that we really, we talked about last time and it started six and a half years ago in the early development phase. And since we've been administering it this year, it's really accelerated in our retreat programs, you know, we've collected a lot of anecdotal data and we're about to do some case studies on it. And that should lead to some proper studies with our research team. And, you know, that's my personal, you know, gift to the world and my little brainchild. I'm so excited to bring that out because I think Rose or Joti probably shared with you, you know,

there's a couple different aspects that we use use it for and one of the one of the aspects that we've been uncovering more deeply now since we last spoke is seeing with our clients how it really prevents traumatic journeys and the traumatic journey aspect is is something I feel so passionately about because my family history you know there's people in my father's line who have schizophrenia or who had it. And, you know, I have some genetic predispositions where, you know, I might be predisposed to, you know, traumatic journeys. And so because I develop this from a need in my own use case and then to be able to share everything that we do, you know, not just the Moxha journeys, but this entire collective's work and all of the decades. I mean, I was thinking about the

decades that we have collectively in our experience base. And, you know, it's easily at or over 100 years of experience with psilocybin. So, you know, that I might have told you this before, but I feel like this, I was born to do this work. This is my destiny. All of the trials and tribulations that you recognize and know we've been through, they all served a purpose, which was to bring all of that, you know, wisdom forth specifically for this launching of the Oregon legal services with our team. So I couldn't be more excited because I feel like my spiritual purpose in life is really coming to its full expression here. It's beautiful. It's beautiful.

Thank you. I feel that too. It's beautiful to me in so many ways because I see the unfolding of this. dream. And as I, as I hear everything that's happened to you in your life, you and I got to speak quite a bit about the way you were brought up. We got to speak a lot about your beliefs on how to heal people. And I didn't know that in your family, you have a predisposition for schizophrenia. And there's so much evidence according to the science that we've been taught. A lot of it is company science. A lot of it is this science that was, you know, brought to us by different

industries that told us how to think. And I think that's, something you guys are doing different is you're bringing back the idea of healing to the people. And I love it. There's so many new people to this team. And I see a real change in what is possible in the way you're speaking today. And I think it's because of the team you have here. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about Drew and Rachel and Sienna, Prima. Yeah, definitely.

So Drew, as I was just saying the other day, I'm so fond of Drew because he, is so expert and specialized in a variety of skill sets that make him, for sure, one of our all-star players. Everyone on our team is, we have the all-star team, right? But there's a kindredness that I feel withdrew as my brother. And, you know, the amount that he's invested in his skill set is significant. You know, as a psychedelic assistant therapist, you know, he really brings a strong clinical foundation to the work we do. But because of his spiritual inclinations, you know, as Joti has and I have, you know, we're bringing that synthesis of spirituality and tradition along with science.

And this is a topic that, you know, some people might feel is kind of worn out. But my opinion is that, you know, I lean towards tradition because the traditions were a part of are naturally scientific. And then when we find where they intersect with modern. science. Then we get this level of validation and we get a, you know, a beautiful synergy that produces the best outcomes, I feel when we're talking about real deep, lasting healing and enduring change for our clients. And Drew understands that, you know, really well. And his, you know, the different schools that he's been to and the fact that he has a practice, you know,

he's been seeing clients and he, you know, and his own healing journey. too. He has his own epic healing journey that I hope we're going to hear more about. And we're in that boat together. You know, we've transmuted and healed such levels of trauma within ourselves. And so that's why I feel that kindredness with Jew because, you know, he's truly my brother, not just in the universal sense that we're all brothers and sisters, but, you know, we're going to this superhuman level of effort together and I view him as part of my core tribe. And you know, Rachel I've known longer than Drew. Rachel is when it comes to sound therapy, we've been, you know, having our ears to the ground for a long time looking for people who are really good with sound therapy. And the reality

is that we don't really know anyone else who's as good as Rachel. So, you know, and we met, I met Rachel back in Crestone when we lived in the remote forest and Jotian and Rachel and I connected there, you know, this beautiful wilderness location in the remote mountains of Southern Colorado. And so it was definitely another synchronicity that brought Rachel to our team. And I know that Rachel has a really deep connection with Joti as a sister. And I view it, you know, as this incredible relationship that I feel is growing and flowering in beautiful ways between them. My interactions with Rachel, every time we do a retreat, especially this last year,

I get to see how much people get, you know, the level of benefit that they receive from the sound therapy. And, you know, that's anytime someone brings a gift of healing to our team, I honor them. And I feel like Rachel is truly one of my deepest sisters because I don't really have very many social friends. You know, this team is really my main social group. And so, you know, I miss Rachel when she's in Colorado and I'm in Oregon. And I look forward to when we get to synchronize and when I go to Colorado for retreats, I hope she's going to be able to participate in more of our programs upcoming here in Oregon, which we're aligning for her. And, you know,

every moment that I've spent with Rachel, I feel the love that she brings to her work. The love and the care and the expertise and when she teaches in Bodie Academy, you know, we all get eliminated about the potential of what sound can do for someone therapeutically. So she's an artist. She's a sound artist in so many ways and I'm an artist too in many ways. And that artistic connection I always am appreciating about her because it's all about the art of life and she knows about cultivating art. And that's a high value for me. So I love her very much as a sister and she's a huge blessing on our team. And we did talk to her on our Moksham moments somewhat recently,

and that was an awesome episode. And I hope that we get to hear more about her healing gifts today. It's beautiful to me. And Sienna, I'm going to come back and talk to you over here. You are one of the lead facilitators. And I've read a little bit about your background. But I was curious if you would be so kind as to maybe fill in a little bit more about your thoughts on your team and then move into your background. Yeah, thank you so much.

And thanks again for having us all here today. Let's see. I want to start by first echoing everything that Premah said about Drew and Rachel. They are both so incredibly brilliant and beautiful at what they do, both really. exceptional standouts in their field, as is everyone on this team. It's such an honor and a privilege to be able to be in this work with such an incredible dynamic team. Starting, of course, at the uppermost leadership with Joti Ma, who is just an absolutely incredible guide and mentor not only to our clients, but to all of our team members. She brings an incredible wealth of information and knowledge and wisdom from both the spiritual paths and from the science paths. It's an incredible honor to be able to work so closely with JOT as well as with all the team members.

I feel imminently blessed at all turns. So as you mentioned, I'm Sienna, Taranova. I am a lead facilitator on the team. I came to this work with a background as a spiritual leader and community leader. You know, through that work, I was able to connect so deeply and intimately with so many different community members through the congregation. And I really had the special opportunity to be able to counsel people and guide people through their trials and tribulations to their darkest moments. And yet, you know, after a decade or so of that work, you know, there became a feeling of diminishing returns, you know, where people were kind of continuing to come forward with. the same problems, you know, stuck in looping patterns, stuck in addiction, stuck in their trauma,

and talk was not doing the job, you know. And so that brought me to the medicine where people really have an opportunity to combine, you know, as Premo was saying, you know, combining spirit and science, that's what you get when you come to the medicine. You know, you have a, really powerful opportunity to incorporate all of the compassion and all of the love and all of the support of talking and sharing and working from that perspective with the incredible neurological opportunities that are available with the medicine. And when those two come together, that's an incredibly beautiful thing where suddenly, you know, people are able to make substantial progress very, very quickly on, you know, as I mentioned before, you know, on destructive

patterns, on, you know, starting from just normal life stuff, addressing our limiting beliefs, you know, addressing the ways that we keep ourselves small, addressing the ways that we're diminishing ourselves. And then from there, you know, branching out into bigger and bigger and more and more complex situations like depression, PTSD, addiction, anxiety, you know, all of these different co-conditions that plague us, plague the people, plagued me. You know, on a personal level, I came to the medicine, as many do, because I had a PTSD diagnosis and, you know, I did many, many years of intensive therapy around it and made progress, certainly, you know, and also didn't make progress in a lot of the areas.

that were having a very strong, very challenging day-to-day effect on my life. And the medicine was my path to salvation. It was my past of redemption and recovery. And, you know, it's been many years now. And still, I have moments in my life where, you know, perhaps I'll experience a situation that would be a trigger, you know, that I can recognize. logically, I can see how I would have played out my reaction prior to this substantial long-term change in my neural chemistry.

And yet my actual emotional, spiritual, psychological reaction to that trigger is light years away from that logical understanding of how I would have reacted. And it's incredible. You know, it's incredible to realize that I couldn't manage that I couldn't manage. manufacture that reaction if I wanted to because my neural chemistry is completely changed. You know, my spiritual relationship is completely changed. It's an incredible thing. And it's an incredible honor to be able to bring that work forward here, you know, in a totally different way. We each bring a piece of knowledge. You know, we each bring an area of expertise.

And so what I can offer as an individual facilitator is so much. You know, what each of us can offer is so much. And it looks a certain way. But when we bring everybody together and everybody gets to bring their strength and their perspective and their energy, it's such a dynamic, such a transformational, such a powerful, powerful environment and opportunity for our clients and community members.

And that's exceptional. It's incredible. And I don't think any of us could do it to such a profound degree individually. You know, in this case, it takes a village. And this is an incredible village that we've formed. And it's incredible. I'm so grateful. Thank you.

It is beautiful. It's like this incredible tapestry that's been woken. And, you know, when I got to speak to you at one of the Moksha moments, Sienna, and I listened to some other things that you talked about through LinkedIn and stuff. You have an incredible way of not only recognizing patterns, but helping people see the patterns in themselves and helping them form new patterns to emerge. Like, I don't know that I've ever spoken to anybody else that's better than that than you. And I can hear it in the way you're able to use your words. talk about neurodivergent thinking and the way that works with spirituality. Like, it's, it's incredible to me.

And it speaks volumes of the way in which you can play at the level you're playing. And I think the people that come to you, like whether it's, it is having Prima there to bring in a stack or have his background with, you know, a lineage of people with whom the divine has spoken. And all of a sudden you have Sienna over here whose ability to see patterns is it's mind blowing to me. And it's so beautiful for me to get to see this team evolving the way it is. And this brings me to Rachel, whom I did not really even begin to understand the difference between sound therapy and music until I listen to the Kotama that you seem to be or have this gift to play. There's a big difference in there.

And I want to get into that. But before I do that, I should back up and allow yourself to give an introduction that is worthy. So please, Rachel, would you be so kind as to introduce yourself and what it is you do and how you got here? All right. Thank you for that. Yeah, so I'm a certified sound therapist. I studied for over a year, a European modality of sound therapy that's being used in a lot of different clinics and hospital sending. So what we're talking about here essentially is like clinical and medical applications of very specific frequencies. And it's interesting how I came into this work.

It was actually through a health crisis, not surprising, I'm sure. Imagine that. And I had actually contracted a... a co-infection from a tick bite that had been eating away at the connected tissues in my body, and I was in a lot of pain. And I was kind of like in this like fever state, you know, during that time. And actually, Prima was a big part of my healing journey through this as well, setting me up with a really amazing protocol that was helping my brain and to help basically detox my body. from the co-infection.

But regardless of all that, I was always loved music. I had been studying actually electronic music production for a little while. I was a dancer, and that was kind of my thing, was like I wanted to just dance to the music, and I wanted to share a story through my movement. And so it was devastating when I got this illness, and I couldn't dance. I couldn't really get out of bed or do very much at all. And while I was in this state, I started hearing this music in my mind. And it was so soothing and just so calming and peaceful.

And I felt okay with what was happening to me in that moment as I was hearing this music in my head. And then I would go to sleep and I'd be dreaming about it. And then I'd wake up and it was still there. And I started thinking to myself after a while. you know, maybe there's something more here. Like maybe I'm receiving a message or I'm tuning into something that's out there already. So I started doing some research and that's how eventually I came across the instrument of Kotomo and Kotamo music because that's what I was hearing in my mind that was bringing me all this piece. And so basically that just kind of what got me started onto this path was listening to this

Kocomo music and I acquired an instrument of my own. And this is what I use in a lot, like all of my sessions and sound meditations. And when we come together for a ceremony, this is like a showcasing piece instrument. And it always seems to be a highlight for everybody that's in attendance is when we get to do KOTMO sound meditation. So this instrument is a concert quality.

So those, They're really difficult to make and they're extremely rare. As far as I'm aware of, there's probably about 20 of these concert quality instruments in North America. And so I think I have the only one that's here in Colorado at the moment. And so what it is, it's five feet long. It has 56 strings and it's double-sided. And it's a combination of Koto, a Tampura, and a monochord, which are three different ancient string instruments. from cultures and different places of the world.

So you can play all three of these instruments simultaneously. And I also have it tuned to healing frequencies. So it just creates this amazing environment and soundcape that is like angelic and peaceful and ocean-like. And people can will just, within 15 or 20 minutes, it's like everybody all of a sudden eyes closed, people are snoring, they're just, your whole body can't help.

but just relax. So yeah, that's how I came to that. And so now with my work, I also work primarily with singing bowls and everything. All of my tools have gone through spectral analyzing equipment. So I am very, very certain of the tones and the frequencies that they hold and that those tones and frequencies are hitting what's called planetary frequencies. And this is what I work with for healing. And so it's a planetary frequencies are amazing because I feel like it's this perfect emergence of spirituality and science and ancient wisdom traditions.

There is, you know, ancient text, ancient beta texts that talk about, you know, the sounds of planets and, you know, how to use that for healing. and this is basically that information. So how it came to be in the modern day and age, there's this man named Hans Cousteau. He wrote a book that's called The Cosmic Octave. It's a really intense, like heady kind of a read. But if you're interested, I highly recommend checking it out, it's very, very interesting.

He was a musicologist and a mathematician. And so he basically was looking at all of this information that's in these ancient texts as already existed. The ancients knew about and talked about and utilized. And he reinterpreted the information for like the modern Western mind. So the concept is that if you take the cycle of any kind of planetary or cosmic body, it could be a star, it could be a planet. The planetary frequencies are based on the cycle. are based on the cycle of most of them are based on the cycle of a planet revolving around the sun

so you take that number and you can plug it into an equation more or less and what you come out from that is a is a frequency a very very specific frequency that would be within the audible range of human hearing and it just so happens to be that these planetary frequencies have very very specific and profound effects on the physical human body, the emotional body, on the spiritual body that can be, you know, these, you can repeat it over and over and you'll get the same kinds of results. So that's what I work with in my practice and with our clients. And so I use the Kotimo and that's tuned to planetary frequencies. I have an instrument that's called the Kailani.

And it's like this large hexagon, wooden frame with tubular bells that are tuned to planetary frequencies inside. So you can take it and move her around. You can wash it over somebody. What else do you? And we have the hand-hammered Himalayan singing bowls, which I will put directly on the body at times around people. And I even have one that you can stand in.

So when you stand in it and hit the bowl, the vibrations will travel up like through your bones up to the top of your head. It can be very intense, but it's pretty soothing nonetheless. Yeah, so it's been really amazing to work with the medicine and bring it in to ceremony for our clients. And it's just really been amazing to witness when, you know, how people, people can be affected in those states. And, you know, we'll usually, sometimes we can bring it in the beginning if people are feeling like really nervous or they're a little bit uncomfortable as the medicine is coming up to bring in a little bit of these sound therapy tools. There are frequencies that kind of act as like the, like a rescue remedy, if you will. And it will ease tension and

anxiety within 20 minutes. People just start taking deep breaths. They'll relax. They'll calm down. just suddenly feel like, okay, I do got this. And we've also brought in bringing in the sound therapy in the middle of the journey. And also towards the end as people are starting to plateau and kind of come a little bit more back into their bodies. And we've also been bringing it in as well for integration, which has also been really fascinating, where maybe a day after the journey, you know, people could be in any kind of a situation. state, but sometimes, I know, some of the clients I've witnessed working with, it's, you know, I remember a woman in particular who she, she was unsure of some things. You know, I saw some things

and I don't know what they meant and it was a little like some things that were disturbing for her. She couldn't find the words. And so she was just sort of not sure what to think of it all. And I gave her about a 45 minute session. And by the end of that, she was able to you know working a lot of the frequencies they'll bring in for the integration sessions for example would be one that could help people to find the words to express themselves it's a it's the frequency of mercury actually it affects and stimulates the language center in your brain and your nervous system so you give somebody a treatment with that and then after about 40 minutes all of a sudden the things they couldn't express before or be able to put

put to words, it's just effortlessly can come out from them. So with that woman, I work with that bull. I remember working with the frequency that has to do with a, to help evoke a sense of primal trust, like trust in yourself and trust in the process. It's kind of like related to the state that we are born into this world. You know, when we have just like, there's only love there for us and that is all we know. and we're just completely trusting of our caregiver and just like like fully relaxed into that state of surrender and i also gave her the frequency that's our rescue remedy frequency which is actually

in it's one of the earth frequencies there's several and they all do different things but the frequency of the earth one like the earth here so the earth taking one cycle around the sun that's also a pure om tone ironically and so anyway by the end of this session working with these frequencies she was so much more relaxed she's like ah okay I understand now and I understand what it all meant and you know there's you know there's the good there's the bad there's the things in the middle, but ultimately it's all beautiful and it's all love. And she described feeling like that she could see it now and understand it, understand it better and feel that she was just a part of the vibrations of the universe and that like everything is just a vibration and being

able to sink into that. Yeah. So that's what, um, that's what, um, It's what I love to do. It brings me so much joy to be able to bring this medicine of music and sound to people and to educate folks on like how powerful sound can really be. One of the things I really love about it in particular is that it's so powerful. It's so moving. It can do so much in your being, but it's also so gentle. It's non-invasive. I don't, I never have to I never have to touch anybody. Like the sound touches them. It literally penetrates the body.

When you go to talk to somebody, you can put up walls and like, oh, maybe I'll share some of this, but not that. Or, you know, I have, you know, something inside of me that, you know, I don't want anybody to know about that. I don't want to look at that. I don't want that to be touched. But you can't hide from the sound. You can't hide from vibration. It'll just go right through it. And it touches it in a way that's really, really gentle and moving.

and it can really help facilitate a shift and a transformation in that way. That is beautiful. It's just I didn't know how much more I could be stoked on this team until I hear all the things there. It's in some ways, like it's just, I see so many dimensions. And when you speak about the language of music, whether it's through the frequencies of the planets or the pure own, the ironic. pure ome. You know, it's, it is incredible to think that we have, it's incredible to think how powerful music is as a language. And the fact that you as an individual can be a bridge between someone who may not know about the different frequencies and you are someone. And it's almost like you're

grabbing their hand and gently walking them across this bridge to healing. And here's my friend Prima over here. Come over here. Hey, here's Drew or let me, let me show you my my friend, my friend that knows patterns in Sienna over here. And it's, it's beautiful. I just want to cry a little bit. So thank you for that. And I can't wait to talk more about it. But I got to jump up here to our friend Drew, who's been, you know, Drew, I haven't got to speak to you one-on-one before, but I hear so many people saying so many good things about you. And I just wanted to give you an opportunity, because I think you bring something unique to this team in that you have some incredible personal background, like most people that brought you here. But maybe you could

share a little bit about that story and how you got to be as tough as you did. Yeah. Thanks, George. Yeah, thank you. Well, I, you know, sitting here listening to the rest of the team, I feel so honored and privileged to be, like, included in this elite group. You know, I almost have a little bit of, you know, imposter syndrome. because they're so incredible and so like at the peak of their individual fields.

And so it's so wonderful to be a part of that. And to like when I've been helping guide and I get to experience Rachel's sound healing, you know, I sit in and meditate on it. And it's an out-of-body experience. experience. It's you your consciousness gets altered with it's um so it's just a blessing to be a part of of you know receiving through some osmosis what everybody is bringing to the to the table and I can't imagine that for um for a client where everything is just dedicated to you know to their healing um yeah so for for me um I

I, you know, my whole life has led up to this point as well. I was the oldest of seven children. And I grew up in a very spiritual household. I was raised very Christian. But I knew from a really early age that I really wanted to be helping people in some way. And I really went searching for what that could be early on. I started doing humanitarian work straight out of high school and turned down a full-ride scholarship, academic scholarship to a university because I thought, you know, I don't want to do the traditional thing. I need to go, like, find myself. And so, you know, I got married very young. I got married at 19 to my wife. We're still married.

We've got four kids now. Yeah. So we're going on almost 18 years in a couple weeks here. And we did humanitarian work together. We lived in China for a few years, working with a minority people group in mountains, trying to help them document and preserve their culture and their language. And then through a series of, events, one of them being, you know, trying to like raise a family and starting to have kids

and during the crash of 2008, I just couldn't even, you know, like, so I joined the Army and I thought, you know, this, maybe this is my opportunity to really make a difference somehow, like do something really big and help people. And so I fought really hard to get a job that I thought would be something that I could have some control over in helping people. My job was, I was a what's called a human intelligence collector. And my job was to go out into the villages in Afghanistan and talk to people and befriend them and gain their trust so that they would tell me where the bombs were buried or where the bad guys were hiding.

And I really enjoyed that job. and I came from it from a place of like really genuinely wanting to be a help to them. And, and, and there were, you know, it was very difficult, though, because, you know, when I was deployed to Afghanistan and these combat zones, you know, we'd been there for a long time, and there was a lot of cynicism and a lot of just really entrenched things and a lot of political maneuvering that was happening. and and uh but i i wanted to make a difference i really wanted to help these people and so um i would go out to villages and um you know work with the village leadership and and um gate you know really

it was almost like doing counseling sometimes with people um having them come in and talk with me and um and but through that experience you know despite my best efforts uh the the gears of the military industrial complex and, you know, a very political, you know, leadership and everything, I found a lot of my efforts to do something good were just really like overwhelmed by the situation on the ground. I mean, to put it lightly. And I experienced a lot of a lot of traumatic things. It was really difficult. People, you know, friends of mine died. And I had a lot of moral injury from that. I really felt, you know, I also experienced a lot of difficulty with my, like, you know, army leadership. And so, yeah, I walked out of there with a

an incredible load of stress and a lot of moral injury. And I ended up being diagnosed with PTSD. And I was also deployed in Afghanistan for, or I mean in some Central African countries for a while. And just seeing like the suffering of human beings and the seeing, you know, the levels of evil that people can experience, but also, you know, to see like so many heroes journeys and to make these cross-cultural relationships with incredible people from these vastly different cultures.

And it was really profound for me. But I decided to leave the Army. I kind of had a promising career like that was developing, but I just couldn't do it anymore. And I started to need, in order just to cope, I needed, my nervous system was so shot. I mean, just absolutely, I was miserable to, you know, be around for me. I feel bad for my family. I was, I was a wreck. And I was on a bunch of medications and I was doing therapy that was kind of, you know, it was helping a little bit. The medications were helping my nervous system at least, you know, get me through the day. But I really wasn't healing that underlying moral injury, that wound that

was there. And, you know, so I got out of the Army and I knew I still had this thing where, you know, I really want to help people. I want to make a difference. I want to, you know, and I knew that that there was so much more than just the biological, that there's the, there's the biological and the clinical, but it needed to be infused with, with, um, the existential and the spiritual. And so, um, I, I went back to school to get my, to finish my, my, my bachelor's, get my master's in counseling. I knew I wanted to be a counselor and I was on my own healing journey during that time. And, um, it was during my schooling that I started to hear that psilocybin could be helpful for the treatment of PTSD.

and you know and so I started looking into it because I was desperate for my own you know healing I still was on all these medications and you know the VA was doing their best to to treat me and support me there's only so far that that can go and the therapy I was getting was good but it just I was struggling so after doing lots and lots of research for a long time and I ended up having some therapeutic journeys with psilocybin that were that were so profound and so healing and it was I just felt that inner wound being being touched in a way where like this the you know it's so ineffable very difficult to describe but you know I'm feeling like the love of like the, you know, God of this very big universal sense, you know, just really holding me and

mending me back together. And I, I, one of those first journeys that I had, I called up my wife and I was talking to her and I had her on video and she, she was like, she was like, oh, it feels like I have my husband back after, you know, a long time. Just, just seeing me and the way, you know, like there was a lightness to me that I hadn't been able to have for a long time. So I was able to titrate off my medications after that pretty easily, actually. You know, I still am kind of on a healing journey, but the difference that psilocybin has made for me in my, in addressing my moral injury and the PTSD experience is, is you know it's um so profound and uh and i knew i like okay you know this is what i want to help

bring to other people this this is what i've seen so many people um that are are struggling with their trauma and feel stuck in it you know i have many um therapy clients i'm a licensed professional counselor now and I have private practice and been doing that for a few years. And there's so many of them, maybe not everyone, but there's so many that I just know that this medicine is going to be so helpful for, but paired in with this, with the existential meaning making and the spiritual component that with this really holistic view that this team brings, there's, it's, it's just that much more powerful and of, of a container to be able to have therapeutic outcome. And, um, I, I hope that what I can bring to this, you know, is there,

there's the, a presence that I, that I really am trying to cultivate of, of just healing intention and love for people, um, of support. And, uh, of support. as they go through this journey. And, yeah, that's maybe what the team sees in me, but again, I'm so blessed to be a part of such an elite group of people that are all dedicated and focused to bringing this level of healing to people. It's incredible. There's something to be said about a man who can walk into a foreign country and sit down with death, have a conversation with him, and come back and still laugh. You know what I mean? Drew, it makes me want to cry again, man.

The idea that your wife says, it feels like my husband is back. When she said that to you, did you feel like I am back? How did you feel when she said that? Yeah, I mean, pretty relieved because there are some moments of hopelessness, you know, being on medications for years and just feeling like I'm never going to, you know, I'm never going to fully heal, you know, and almost feeling like there's, this is now my identity. And to know that that actually isn't my identity, like the wounds that I've been through, that's, that isn't me. That's stuff that's happened that I might need to heal from, but who I. I really am. I was able to get in touch with. And to get the glimpses of that and to see like my true self. And that and to have that hope again of like I, you know, I can be the person that I

envision for as a husband and as a father and, you know, as a friend that that's, that that really is possible to to come back to and live from. It's, makes me emotional thinking about it. Do you feel as if I once heard, and I like to believe that the answer to the age old question, is this really necessary? The answer to that is, yes, it's essential. But isn't it, though, isn't it essential, Drew, that you went through that? Because without you going through that and coming back, how would you have the ability to see it in others?

And because you've walked up to the precipice and stared down at it, you can walk up and recognize people that are staring over the cliff. And you can grab their hand. And you can walk with Rachel and be like, hey, here's my friend Premah. Rachel's going to play some music. It's going to help out this journey a little bit. We're going to go talk to Sien about these patterns. And then Prema's got this stack over here that's going to show some things.

It's so beautiful. I love it. And it blows my mind. It brings me, Rose, JOT. I want to say to you, there's this beautiful poem. And as we are moving through this conversation here, I'm often reminded of this poem by Robert Frost. And it seems to embody what is happening here.

And I believe it is we all sit in a ring and suppose while the secret sits in the middle and knows. And I see you there with this wry smile on your face like, yes, George. I am so proud of everybody here. I'm so thankful for the way they've explained their journeys. And I can feel the happiness radiating from you, JOT. How does it feel to see the culmination of ideas be where it is today? You're right, George.

I am surrounded by greatness and great souls and great people, people of great depth and passion. And it's really rewarding. And it's very affirming that the vision, that I had for this work is being born and expressed through each of these beautiful people. And this is our leadership team. And, you know, these are the people that built this with me. And we continue to build it every day.

The intersection of all of these interdisciplinary streams of awareness and healing really brings a whole. new synergy to the people that we work with. It's on every level that we do the healing. And yes, we're clinicians and we're scientists and biochemists and sound neuroscientists and expert facilitators and with awareness of neural pathways and how they form patterns in the brain and how those can be reset. And but when, we're sitting with clients, it's the presence of the spirit that we know is our foundation. And that spirit lives brightly and powerfully inside every one of the people on my team. And I'm gratified in ways I can't really put words to that they were each attracted to this vision and this mission.

And together we have created a beautiful place and a beautiful space and a beautiful vibration for a whole healing and return to the essential self, which we see our clients experience regularly, and which we're about to offer many more people as we have just officially opened in Oregon in the license system and have the opportunity to host our client's journeys at an amazing, beautiful license services center with the Omnia Group Ashland.

And having met them, it's another destined coming together of people of higher consciousness and the best of goodwill. They're an amazing synergy with our team, Brian and Michelle, who own the Omnia group. They've made a beautiful facility. The rooms are absolutely amazing for people to have their experience. And our facilitators are now going to be there and offering all of their skills and knowledge.

And all of our team is licensed now in Oregon. And that's a big accomplishment because we started out to it. and a half years ago helping Oregon psilocybin services along with many others in the psilocybin community to build this system and to build this first ever legal access and our team is rising up as people that you want to know and that you want to get services from because we set the bar very high in everything we do it's not just that we have all this incredible skill and knowledge and heartfelt best intentions. It's that we excel in everything we do. We are, you know, we go beyond all minimums that are required. And we have a high standard.

I knew that inside of our team, but now that we're getting into the license system and we're interacting with more people, and especially the owners of Omnia. And they're just such an awesome new addition to our team. But they're all affirming and saying, you know, wow, your team is really at the top. You set a high bar in everything you do. And I think we have to. You know, this medicine was. marginalized and slandered and lied about and used as a weapon against people getting their

consciousness awakened against having it available for healing. For 50 years, the medicine has been oppressed by these laws. And so when we get the chance now again to have access to it and to be able to use for healing and spiritual awakening and bringing consciousness to the next level, not just for the individual, but for the collective, because when we change one mind, we affect many people. And this is a new pathway for humanity that could be coming at a better time. And at the same time, we have to realize that we're breaking through that stigma and that we have to do everything exactly right.

and stay inside the lines and show that it works and prove that it's successful and prove that it's safe and prove that all of that brainwashing over the last 50 years is just lies and deception. And that's what we're doing. But I do think that it's very important that we ease our way into this Western model that we come to this with a licensed therapist,

expert narrow wellness clinical director with Prema, a hands-on experience psilocybin facilitator and educator who's been illuminating the medicine all this time underground, and as well as bringing out the best of these holistic modalities with our sound therapy and Rachel's incredible scientific knowledge of the power of vibration and sound. So we have a lot to prove, you know, not just us, but everybody in this new ecosystem, all practitioners that are now getting licensed, all facilities that are now licensed as premises

for this incredible experience. And we have to have a high standard. I don't accept anything less and neither does anyone on my team. And that is another connection that we all have. have. We want not to just do a good job for people. We want to be the best. We want to set the standard and we want to prove the efficacy, safety, and power of this medicine. And that's what we're here to do. It's so beautiful said. And I can't help but think the medicine has chosen all of you to be its ambassador. When you set, you know, it's. Yeah, that's exactly what I say all the time. The mycelium brought us together. And when the medicine was underground and a lot of us were working underground, we were in the mycelium. And now that we're coming into the legal system,

we've become the fruiting bodies ourselves. And we are, you know, the medicine is making it happen. I've witnessed that from the minute I decided to have a company that would offer legal psilocybin services. It was the medicine that brought each of us to this and to each other. And that is what continues to grow our company, the people that we attract, the people that are excited for what we do. We're just barely getting started, but I feel the momentum is going to be carrying us so quickly forward into a big expansion and being able to serve many more people. And that's the medicine too.

Do you think nature looks with its consciousness, with its living embodied consciousness, at the human condition and what the human has inflicted on it and doesn't think I need to fix these people?

Of course it thinks that. The earth itself depends on changing human consciousness. The mushroom is saying to the world, hey, return to me, return to nature, get grounded. Where's our oneness? It's in our feet where we all touch the earth together.

So let's get down to earth. That's the healing. That's the expansion. And then the mushroom is there. And it's always been there. You know, in ancient times, people go to the forest. They go to the fields and they collect the mushroom. And they take it in and they have ceremony.

And they honor it as a living being of consciousness. Because when it comes into our bodies, we know it as that. We realize, wow, this is another kind of consciousness. It's a plant teacher, a fungi teacher. And it's going to show me where the healing is. And it's going to show me what I need to see. And that's one of the main navigation skills we tell our clients, too. You know, if you're facing something in your journey that's scary or you're facing something that's making you unsure, ask the journey, ask the medicine that's running through your neurological system.

What do I need to know about this? What do I need to see? And when they do that, the journey expands and they understand and they get new perspectives and they go to another level and they reclaim their authentic self and who they really are. And can you imagine being in that flow of consciousness and then coming out into a very blissful state and then hearing the incredible primal vibrations of the Cotamo that Rachel is gently playing and being immersed in the vibration. And then looking into the face of Sienna, who is always so gracious and compassionate, but also usually, know with Sienna being your facilitator that she's going to make sure you do the work that the

journey has brought to you and that you're going to stay with those intentions that you set and get what you came for. And then maybe afterwards you feel sad or uncertain or you feel like, you know, your chemistry got so powerfully reset that you're a little bit shaky. And then Prima comes with his gentle bedside manner and says, you know, here's some amazing natural medicines that are going to support you and help you be able to integrate

and be able to expand or, you know, calm your nerves before the journey and bring you into a peaceful state. And not only that, but make sure that you have a nice and beautiful and healing journey and avoid, difficulties because maybe your serotonin was off or maybe your bodily systems or have been struggling with the stress you're dealing with or with the depletion of essential nutrients and

things that we need that the whole world is really depleted from and and then afterwards you see Drew and now your therapy goes to another level and Drew even does psycho Psychedelic assisted psychotherapy. We have a beautiful way to make that happen here in Oregon where our facilitators can, you know, go to the center and have someone take a midi dose, not a full dose. And then we assess that they're okay

and they can depart after the minimum time. And we take them straight to the retreat where they do a session withdrew while they're able to go deeper, where they're able to have more understanding of what is the meaning of all these things that maybe they've been trying for years in therapy to resolve or get to. And I want to say about Drew also, we call him our team Buddha. He has this presence that's indescribable until you experience it. But there's just so much love and support that just ends.

emanates from his being. And he is a facilitator also. So, you know, and we work in teams. So one client is always with two facilitators because the journey is long. The day is long. And the facilitators are working hard. And they, so if one facilitator is going to take a break, get some food, the other facilitator will be there.

So they back each other up like that. But it's also great for the psychotherapy part to have the dynamic of two people. You know, we're born like that. We're born with two caregivers that are responsible for us, whether they meet that need or not. But that's how we are meant to come to the world. So if they didn't meet that, then this is an opportunity to experience a dynamic of two. loving beings being there for you. And it's very helpful for the fact that we operate as a team. Because if you think about how demanding this work is, you're going to take that client through an

intake process and in-depth process to get to know them. You're going to find out what are they struggling with. What are the intentions? What are their expectations and hopes? And what are their fears that they have about it. And you're going to then help them prepare by making a plan and getting educated about what to expect and what are some tools you can use to to navigate the journey and the various kinds of phases that it goes through. And then we help you with integration afterwards. And so when we have finished that intake and that first preparation, we know a bit about the person. We understand how they approach things.

How do they think? Who are they? You know, and then we may have them do a neuro-woundness evaluation if they have certain red flags or factors that we know, you know, indicate that they might need that. So they get evaluated. So they get on a natural protocol ahead of time. We know that, okay, this person is probably going to take the Moshe's stack

before their journey. And then we meet together as a team, right? So are they resistant? Are they afraid? Are they controlling? Are they anxious? Are they surrendered? Are they open?

Are they excited? Are they afraid? And what is the result of their neural wellness evaluation? What's happening with them physiologically? What's happening with them physically? What's happening with them spiritually? Do they need sound therapy ahead of time? Do they need that as part of their preparation?

Do they need a therapist ahead of time? Do they need an extra preparation session with the facilitator? And what should their dose be? And this is very important too, because all those various components that I just mentioned are all going to play a role in how much of the medicine that person might need. And so that is something that the whole team meets to talk about. So when we're all together discussing,

seeing a client that is it going to enter into a journey with us, we have every lens, every point of view so that we can see the whole person. And that allows us to give that unique individual the kind of level of care that they need. This is, it's so comprehensive. And there's so many moving parts in there. And this is, in my opinion, what separates you from, I don't know, any other, I don't know of any other facility that has the level of comprehensive care that you have. I don't know of any other facility that brings together the lenses with which to see the person who needs the help. I think that's unique. And it saddens me that we don't have that lens in so much of society, or at least not the lens with this medicine. And it's beautiful to see that it's so comprehensive.

so amazing to see the care with which people whom go to the go to moxha's are taking care of and how they're looked at and how the family structure is in place i never thought about how just having the container of two loving people there may harken back to a time when life was more pure for you like that's so beautiful to think about it's like of course that would yes like it's so beautiful to think about and I'm so stoked to be there. I want to touch back base with Prima for him in it. And for someone who has the background that you have, Prima, what's it? How do you approach, if somebody comes in there to a new client, what is your approach on figuring out the amount of medicine they need? How do you look at that, Prima?

That's a great question. You know, recently there was a document that was put out by Oakland Hifee HIPI Labs and another nonprofit group and they got together and made this document and it had a lot of guidance on dosing considerations and I love the spirit of that document I think it's a great thing for the

for the masses who are experimenting and journeying but one thing I noticed in there was that there were some aspects to it there weren't evidence-based and, you know, we don't agree with it because we know that it's not correct and that, you know, there's this old idea that body weight plays a role in dosing considerations. And thus, you know, there are numerous papers that have been published that dispel that myth. So, you know, we were thinking about, okay, maybe we should collect the references and make a blog about this topic.

But it's something that we discuss at length in our internal team meetings. And in various settings because, you know, we, we have other factors that we do need to assess. And body weight's not one of them. And so, you know, when I look at it, you know, from my background and my perspective, I'm going to go in ideally with a client and do a proper neuro-wellness evaluation. You know, that's my preferred jumping off point to take a look at dosing. So in the neuro-wellness evaluation, we're doing a questionnaire, and it's four pages long, and it's pretty in-depth. And it goes over all of the different aspects of their neurological health and wellness.

So it looks at it from a nutritional perspective, but it also looks at it from an organs and systems perspective. And I also bring in my Ayurvedic background in those considerations as well. So, and, you know, that I probably mentioned that. That's my personal synthesis is Western holistic medical traditions with the Eastern and especially the Indic five-element traditions. So when I'm doing that interview, you know, feeling out all the questions, I would have already done a history on them. So I'm going to look, you know, what is their health status in general?

you know, what are their health tendencies? What do they take in terms of supplementation and medication? And so then I look at all of that information and I gather anything else I can. You know, perhaps other facilitators have been working with them in preparation. So I'm going to look at those records of the preparation forms. And I'm going to figure out, you know, are there any signs that might indicate to me what dose range we might want to start in. And, you know, if someone is taking certain medications, that's going to be a big one, right? We know about, we have an experience base with a lot of medications where we do know,

here's the dose range that will work and that won't have any adverse interactions. So, you know, that's one major consideration. Now, ideally, if we have enough time during the preparation phase, I'm also going to look at their genetics. So I'm going to, I'm going to run a report. You know, if they already have, you know, their raw data from ancestry or 23MMe or something like that, we'll take the file and we'll run it through another software program and we'll examine all. You know, there are other companies that kind of provide that analytical information and we'll say, here's a report on your pathways related to classical psychedelics metabolically. So we will look at that. I'll look at the genetics around the entire serotonergic system in the brain, especially.

And so those are all things that help give me a sense, you know, like serotonin transporter or, you know, COMT or MTHFR, trying to look at, you know, do we have any sense of how fast they're going to metabolically process the psychedelic and how fast the enzymes in the brain are going to interact and, you know, affect how much psilocybin they're going to need to get a threshold effect or more. So that's my take on it. And, you know, it's a bit of a nuanced art, right? Sure. We have to, in my opinion, we can't just base it solely on this type of clinical approach. You know, I, when I talk to people, I'm looking for other signs.

you know i'm always looking for signs about that i can use that i can pick up on intuitively and that's a that's i think something that i i appreciate about the work that we do which is that you know we we're spiritual scientists right so the intuition is an important part and we're using our discernment that we cultivate through years of spiritual disciplines you know to our cognitive function i think has been benefited from doing um a lot of meditation a lot of mantra yoga, a lot of different spiritual practices that can change your brain. You know, so we recommend mantra yoga. We recommend different types of chanting.

We recommend prana yam breathing practices that come from our traditions, but are translated sometimes into a more universal format for our clients. And, you know, so we know firsthand that the brain can be changed through those types of spiritual disciplines. And in fact, you know, we're in our traditions, it is very, very, well known and established deeply that these practices actually lead to endogenous and theogenic experiences. And that is really the crux of my work is understanding the intricate balance between exogenous psychedelics and endogenous psychedelics. And we're on the long-term

path of cultivating practices that produce endogenous psychedelic experiences for ourselves. And that's a topic that you might hear about here and there. It's definitely one of our specialties for our personal practices. And so, you know, if anybody is ever interested in that, and it's aligned, I'll talk about it with them. But that's where the intuition part comes in. Because if we talk about, you know, this person is on this medication and we're giving them, you know, a really large dose and we're needing to pick up on things that they're expressing. psychologically, you know, we're picking up on their path of physiology.

You know, we're looking at how they're physiologically responding to the psilocybin. And, you know, you have to feel those things, right? They look very qualitative. And so the more attuned your cognitive function is the more that you've developed your discernment on these fronts, you know, spiritual practices really enhanced that. So we're combining a variety of different types of assessments. And, you know, I think it's quite an amazing and unique synthesis. And I'm using all of those faculties when I'm interacting with clients.

And I know that JOTI is as well. And we all strive for that. And when we debrief as a team, you know, when we come together at different times to talk about the preparation with this particular client, you know, we come together afterwards after their journey and we're debriefing. And we're really culling from all of these different levels. of our awareness and our clinical backgrounds and our spiritual backgrounds. And we're saying, okay, what do we all feel is going to be the best dose for this client based on the data and based

on our perceptions? So, you know, it's quite a complex mix. And I get really excited about it because we're constantly refining it. I have theories, you know, I have different principles that I'm looking to vet and say, if we give someone this much and this dose starting, how do we gauge the boost? If they need a boost, how do we know how much to give? And these are all the tools that we use that we pull out from our quiver

when we're trying to figure out the base starting dose and the booster dose. I love the nod to the long-term goals of people, being able to produce this type of thinking on their own. I think it speaks volumes of the long game. I think it speaks to the ability of what long-term healing actually is. And it's a beautiful concept of it. Siena, when it comes to the meeting where there's an initial patient that comes in

and you're doing an analysis of it, what does that meeting collect for you? I was just getting distracted reading some of the comments. I'm so sorry. I think these are some interesting comments. Maybe we'll come back around to them. Could I kindly ask you to repeat that? Yeah, I was just on. There was a question for Sienna.

Yeah. Oh, okay, great. Yeah. Okay, great. What does that meeting look like? Well, as we have talked about, throughout this entire session, you know, that meeting is a really comprehensive, holistic picture, you know, just like all of the different team members bring different

aspects forward. Each individual client has unique characteristics that they bring to their presentation, you know, to who they are, to the complexities of, excuse me, of their personality, their spirit, their condition, you know, so we have a lot of assessment tools on, you know, that we work with in Moshe journeys to really cultivate it, a broad and vibrant picture of who each of these individuals are. You know, we talk about all kinds of things from, you know, their medical history, their psychological history, their family history, you know, and then getting into more of like who they are as individuals, those meetings where we're coming up with dosing considerations,

you know, we're customizing, um, retreat offerings for each individual. You know, we're putting together their facilitation team and their treatment team. All of those decisions are made from the perspective of how can we best serve this individual? You know, and each person, that looks different for each person. You know, each facilitator has a different style, a different approach. And so when we're putting together that two-person team, we're being very mindful of who can, you know, who is going to be the best combination of facilitators to show up and support this person. And, you know, sometimes the answer is, you know, the two people that make sense, right? The two people that are going to make them feel the best about their situation and be the most comforting.

And sometimes the answer is, you know, maybe one person who is that and one person who's going to be able to hold the line and push them a little bit, you know, guide them in a different kind of a way. So my point that I'm getting to here is that, you know, throughout all. all of the different phases of planning, you know, which we all have a voice at that table, which is so special, you know, for everybody to be able to kind of share their perspective and bounce off of each other and really fine-tune and perfect the vision, we're able to create a treatment plan for each individual that is so very specific and fine-tuned to their needs. And in that, you know, there's exponential opportunity. for healing and growth and expansion and ineffable results.

You know, I find myself coming back to that word ineffable so often in this work. It's appropriate. It's an appropriate term for sure. Yeah, it is beautiful. Our friend Hank over here has some interesting questions. And I'm going to give it to Rose, but to answer. this question about why mocha? But I think, in my opinion, when I hear the word moxha, I automatically think of the mocha medicine in the book by Huxley. However, I'm curious, Rose,

like, Hank brings up a good point. Why moxha? Like, what is the story behind the moxha medicine? Maybe you can fill in people like what that background is all about. Yeah, this is a great question. You know, I'm the elder on the team. And I first got involved in psychedelics when they were legal. And in the 1950s and 60s, a lot of people in the Western world, Aldous Huxley, Timothy Larry, Richard Alpert, who became Ram Dass, Alan Watt. But these were my inspirations growing up and becoming a young adult. And the book, Island, speaks to, you know, it's a story about a world that has lost its way,

a humanity that has lost the path and is empty, you know, virtually soulless. And, you know, not living in harmony. world anymore, not getting along with each other, lots of separation, and being kind of manipulated by the political machine of society. And so these group of people come together and create this kind of like a retreat on an island. And at this retreat, people come. They bring them from society, from the injured world and the dying world. And they bring them to the island. And while they're on the island,

they get back in touch with nature. They get back in touch with connection to other humans. And part of the way they do this is by taking Moxha medicine. And that's Aldous Huxley's word for it in the book, Moksha Medicine. And he tells them, you know, Moksha Medicine will free you from the machine and unleash you to be creative and allow you to make the world a better place. Like the people on the island believe that they're going to heal society and culture and restore humanity by bringing them to the island for Moksha Medicine.

And so because of that book that I wanted to call it. call my company Moksha medicine. But our legal team said, you know, the FDA won't like that. So I decided to call it Moksha journeys. And in the book, you know, it does get explained that Moksha is a Sanskrit word and it means liberation and also realization and awakening and, and, you know, becoming your whole self, essentially. So I did study in India. I did live in India a long time. And I did study the path of consciousness

and the yogic methods of awakening. And the yogic path also uses a mocha medicine. They use the plants of the earth and the fungi of the earth, you know, from time to time on the yogic path to help us attain that realization. And so it's a very common word. really in the psychedelic lexicon. And it's been around in the Western world for quite a long time.

And I wanted to represent that hope and that work that the people in Ireland were doing. And, you know, it represents our commitment to restore humanity and the connection to the planet and each other, one person at a time by the power of the Moksha medicine. And so I was really an inspiration from Aldous Huxley. And it's not, you know, Sanskrit is a very ancient language. And all of the Indian languages in India came from Sanskrit. However, most European languages, if you go back far enough, they come from Sanskrit as well.

But for one kind of obscure example, there's many similarities between Sanskrit and Albanian language. So, you know, in a lot of the spiritual traditions, it says that in ancient times, once the ancient people mastered the art of sailing and being and traveling the sea, they came together and they met each other and they knew each other's ways. And the ancient people were really much more open to sharing the universal knowledge that they were. the pieces of it at each of them held in the various spiritual traditions. And so there's many similarities. And now in modern times, we've made it all very separate. You're a Christian, you're a Hindu, you're a this or you're a that, and you're not. None of us are that.

That's a label. That's a thing we might do or something we might be interested in. But who you are is actually an authentic individual soul. that has a connection to divinity, whatever way you perceive that divinity. So we don't give a, you know, a religious or spiritual imprint. And we all use words, you know, in the West now that come from the East. And in the East, they use words that come from the West. And, you know, I think that the Moksha medicine or the power of psilocybin

and these plants and fungi that grow all over the world, that everybody's ancestors have known and experienced. They're telling us, you know, it's time to drop the separation. It's time to come back to the essential oneness. It's time to stop labeling each other as us and them. You believe that. I believe this. We can go from living from beliefs to living from values.

And that's a much better way to live. I respect all religions. our team respects all religions. When people come to us for services and part of the preparation, we ask them, what does the word spirituality mean to you? And, you know, some people don't have an answer. People often talk about religious trauma

when we ask that question, the various kinds of negative experiences they've had in religions. Some people will say, I think it's me. I think it's something inside of us that connects us together. some people will say it's like the universe where all the stars are. There's so many different ways that each individual understands that word,

and it's their journey, you know, so it's their choice. We don't put any imprints, we don't have any icons, we don't have any art that, you know, is associated to anything other than nature. And we don't really give people imprints like that. So we call it Mocha because of, you know, I come from, the 60s and the 70s. In fact, I wouldn't say a former hippie, I would say I am still an original hippie.

And the hippies believe that we should have expanded consciousness, we should have organic food, we should have communities where people live together, we should not have war, we should have rights for everyone regardless of their color or their gender. And so I am proud of those values of the hippies. And I think that it dramatically changed our society in so many beneficial ways. Why do we have herbal healing? Why do we have holistic help? Why did women start

having natural childbirth again and breastfeeding their children after the medical system took it away? Why do we have midwives again after they were ran out of business? Why do we have organic food? Why do we get to go shopping and buy things that are grown in biodynamic and natural ways? Why do we have the idea of community, meditation, being on a spiritual path? All of that came from the evolution of consciousness because the hippies took psychedelics. And people like Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert and Alan Watts, who took psychedelics and expanded their consciousness, opened those doors. And that was a purpose of taking it in the beginning. And now it's, well, you have trauma or you have depression.

And so that's why you take it. Yeah, okay, we can help with that. The medicine will help you with that. But that's not the ultimate potential. It's part of the journey to becoming a liberated being. And that's Mokshah, liberation. I love it. And I don't think that that goes, I wish, I would like to amplify that message further in that.

I am so thankful that we are at a point in time where we can begin healing people with the medicine. But the true power of the medicine is when we move past healing and trauma, when we move all these people from healing and trauma into authenticity, and then we move into a world where we can all become a little bit more self-actualized like that. Like, that is the world that I can see the vision of Mokshaj journeys, you know, walking hand in hand with people, I'm helping them become the best versions of themselves. You know, I'm so blessed. I feel so thankful for every one of your time and every one of your stories.

I could probably talk to you each individually. And I hope that maybe after this one, I can have you come on back individually because I would love to dive deeper into every one of your stories. They're incredible. And I think that we've only scratched the surface in who you are as individuals and why you're so important on that team and the care and love you have for the people that come into your center. And I,

but I just want to celebrate the fact that you have this new opening happening. And in that, I would like to kind of move around and get some closing remarks, starting with Rachel. I thank you so much for introducing the world of healing, sound healing to me. Like, I've read about it a little bit,

but the first time I got to really dive into, to the work you're doing was researching you for this event. So Rachel, maybe in, as we're landing the plane here, what are some of the things you're most looking forward to as this new modality, healing ability, and Moksha journeys is opening up in Oregon. That's a great question.

Well, I think one thing that the first thing that really comes to mind for me is, I mean, especially here in the United States, I feel like true sound therapy is kind of just starting to make some headway here. So that's very interesting. So there's a big difference between, to me, there's a big difference between like sound healing and sound therapy. There's something to be said that any kind of soothing, beautiful music, regardless of if it's an actual scientific healing frequency or not, that's going to have a beneficial and positive effect on the being. But when you come into sound therapy, it's like you can really use these specific frequencies to address really deep-seated issues. and illness and the body and things like this.

So I'm just, I'm really, really excited for just this upcoming wave of music, medicine, sound medicine coming into society. And, you know, and I've also been like keeping touch with a lot of some of the more recent like up and coming research around sound as medicine, vibration as medicine and the actual nature of that. So I just, you know, regardless of like, you know, the United States or whatnot, it's just in general as a whole for humanity. Like we're on the brink of some really amazing advancements. And it's all based around vibration and sound and how we can use that in healing.

So that's very exciting. And in terms of the work with Moksha, I'm just really excited to just continue to be working with people. and, you know, sharing this work and seeing what happens, you know, it's like every time I'm working with somebody, I feel like I learn something new. And because it is such a new thing. So a lot of it is, you know, I rely a lot on my intuition and, you know, what I'm observing and picking up in somebody. And it sometimes is an experiment. It's like, hmm, it's like, okay, I haven't seen this before or tried this before, but you know, my intuition is saying, you know, come grab that, go grab that singing bowl and, like, you know, put it on the stomach and like, let's see what happens. And so I think of research

and like case studies. That's what I'm really excited about and just to be continuing to take good notes and research and have a like a body that can be referred to. And so that's something I'm really excited about and just generally just sharing this modality with people is extremely fulfilling for me. And I, for me, it's like this working with Moxha journeys and bringing in my tools and my skills and my passions with music is, it feels like a fulfillment of like my sacred purpose of like what I'm here to do in this life. So, um, we're my companions and destiny, you know, with this team. So it's just really, it's really wonderful. I'm very excited for the future. I'm very excited to share more, to learn more, and to help spread

information and knowledge about how powerful sound is. I really truly believe that there's going to come a time where we're going to be able to treat most things with vibration and sound. What's coming to mind to me in this moment is just something I learned very, very recently that I feel like is really exciting. And it's some of the most recent experiments and research has been coming through through cymatics. So cymatics is like the visual representation of sound essentially. You've probably have seen pictures of like sand that's like sprinkled on plates and then you can pull the like vibration through it and depending on what that frequency is the pattern will appear in the sand on the plate.

You could also do this in water as an example too. So the more recent experiments with sound for cymatics are taking place in these like tubes of water. So you can get this three-dimensional perspective of what's happening. So sound actually comes up as a sphere. It's a bubble. So when we're seeing these patterns in cymatics, it's like a cross-section of that sphere right like taken from the middle um so one thing i thought was this is just so fascinating to me they actually experimented with a human voice just toning um you know into a a vial of blood actually so there's this toning going on with the human voice this beautiful pattern showed up in the blood just perfect uh just absolutely perfect geometry um and

you know, then the toning stops. And then for a period of about 15 minutes, the pattern remained in the blood. Like it just, it was like a little bit like it got redder, it got brighter, and the pattern remained there in the blood, even though the sound had already stopped. So I feel like the implications of that are really huge. Like we can really use sound and vibration to actually change the structure of our bodies and of our beings. And so with that experiment led to further research to show that essentially, regardless of a genre of music or what frequencies are being played, any kind of music or sound, any kind of an immersion into a musical environment is going to increase the oxygen in your blood by about 12%. And especially music that has some kind of sub-based frequencies, those sub-based frequencies. will actually generate a little bit more oxygen in the one.

So I thought that was really interesting. And another thing that's very fascinating that's like new and up-becoming in the research of sound and vibration is that all sound converts into infrared light. So, I mean, that's huge. So it's like our literally our words, our songs, they reach the stars, right? So it's like, you know, you could hear like the, the audible sound will only go so far.

And then it kind of peters out and it stops. But it's converting it to light. So it's actually traveling infinitely. It's traveling infinitely. And our whole bodies, our whole beings, we're all sound, right? We're all vibration and sound. So we are sound, therefore we are light.

So these are just like things I think about. And I feel like also when you're really with sound therapy, what we're doing with these specific frequencies and like the way that instruments are played will induce different states of consciousness. Your brain waves will start to change. And what I find really fascinating in my work is that what's a very, very common experience for people. in my sessions is that they'll say that, you know, they drop into that state. They're just suddenly completely relaxed. Every muscle in the body releases the little muscles in the face and in the forehead. Everything just sort of smooths out.

And when people are in that state, they reflect to me that, oh, I, you know, when I was in that state, I could really feel how I'm just a part of everything in the universe. I became a part of the vibrations that are everything in the universe. And so I think about that too with the light. Like, oh, I could see how I'm just like this infinite being of energy and light. So, you know, I'm just really excited to continue to share that work with people. And, you know, and just continue to experiment and see, like, what can we really do with sound? Like, how can we really use these frequencies to.

like change, change limiting beliefs or, you know, to transform the parts of ourselves that are in darkness into places of light and healing the body, rejuvenating the cells and, you know, what's really possible here because it's, to me, it feels like there's just like an open, an open space of limitless possibilities. of what we could be using with sound as medicine. And so it's very exciting to be on the forefront of that and to be working with this modality and this time where all this new research is coming about. I love it. It's just amazing to me that all of you are certified guides and you all have this unique way

that's totally different of seeing the world. And I think that that's what makes the experience there probably so amazing for the individuals that come. You know, as I'm thinking about it, Rachel, when you make reference to the heavenly bodies and the frequencies between them, and then we ourselves have bodies and we talk about different vibrations, on some level, can you see where, like, it seems to me that if things are vibrations, and you can tell by looking at someone's body or maybe listening to their voice, can you use sound to target different parts of the body that are ill? Like, on some level,

I know that practitioners of different methodologies can look at patients and be like, this person seems to have a blockage here. I'm wondering, can you do that with sound? Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. One of my, actually a case study that I did while I was in my training program, it's she was this older woman and she was struggling with arrhythmia. So she was having a lot of heart palpitations.

She was on medication for it. She didn't like the medication. She was also really seemed to be struggling with pondering her mortality and feeling very, like, anxious about that. So I worked with her in a series of five sessions, and it would be like one session a week. And actually, we did about three of these sessions through Zoom, where she would just wear headphones and I was recording, you know, and I was like playing the bowls for her live around a microphone in my own space and she would listen through the headphones. So, you know,

naturally we really worked a lot with a frequency that is, it targets the heart. It targets the circulatory system and the blood. And so what I found, especially in her last session, And her last session was a big breakthrough. She was just very, she was the kind of woman who wouldn't accept help from anybody, didn't want to let others know that she was struggling. Like, oh, I just got it all on my own. Like I can't let people know that I'm that I'm weak or were, you know, struggling here with this and that. And that was like a big thing for her. And so we worked a lot with, so that's that own frequency actually that also is like the rest of the

Ski remedy that I mentioned earlier, it's used to treat and target anxiety. It's that same frequency that actually targets the heart and the blood and the circulatory system as well. So we worked a lot with that. We worked a lot with that primal trust frequency I also mentioned because that also works in the same area of the body. And I also brought in another frequency that really is used to, it's a bit more psychological in a way. It can really help people to face their fears, to face death, and to find the meaning and to find the strength and the willpower within themselves to like walk through that door to the other side of whatever situation or fear or thing that they have to confront.

So in that last session is when I finally, I was like, okay, she's ready for that big transformation frequency now. So, you know, that was, they're all, it's multiple frequencies happening in a session together simultaneously. So all of a sudden, she's, she breaks into tears on my table, which was a big deal because she's very like, I'm not going to show my emotions because I can't let people know, you know, that I'm struggling. So she just completely let go. She burst into tears on the table. And then after the session was over, you know, we talk about what happened and what their experiences were. And she was explaining to me that in that moment when she was crying, that she realized,

you know, she's like, death isn't going to be the end for me. And there's just so much more. And that she didn't want to, you know, be wasting any more time being afraid of the end that was inevitable for her and that she should just be, you know, living her, living her joy in every moment. And she also had a memory come up that she used to make art all the time. And that was something she did when she was younger before she had children. She was like always making art and how much joy that brought her.

So through that session, she decided that she was going to start making art again. She wasn't feeling afraid anymore. By the end of those five weeks, she was able to cut her medication in half. She stopped having heart palpitations regularly. And I felt like that was just amazing that in five weeks with just sound and vibration, she wasn't doing anything else in addition to that to besides the medication to help manage the palpitations. So that was like that was something that was really amazing. And we also had a client that had a, he had a, he had a, he had a,

some PTSD and a brain injury that was pretty severe and he really struggled to be able to communicate and express himself. And so with that client, I brought in a frequency that really treats the brain and the nervous system. And again, it's that, you know, stimulating the language centers of the brain. And after about a week and a number of sessions as well as a facilitation, he was much more expressive. and he was like smiling a little bit more. He was, even after that first session, I remember him, like going into it. I was like, oh, you know, how are you feeling? Like, you know, where are you at right now? And he didn't really want to say anything to me. And he also struggled to be able to speak. So he didn't really say anything. It's just like, okay, that's okay. Like you don't have to say anything.

Let's just rely down and relax. And by the end of just even that first session, he got to up and he was like, wow, that was really new. I've never experienced anything like that before. And it was just a few sentences, but just that alone was a step, like a big step with him. So I've definitely, I've worked with myself on myself with these different frequencies on vibrations because I still get pain in my joints on occasion or even if I have a stomach ache, I can go grab a bowl that targets the digestive system. And I can play it on myself for about 20 to 40 minutes and then I'll just feel like I wasn't even sick before at all. And you can use it to relieve pain. And it's really amazing.

Again, there's infinite potential. And I feel like we're in an age in this world right now. We're just really beginning to tap into like, wow, like what's actually possible with this, like, It's ancient technology, but it's also going to be future technology. And I'm just really excited to see what's going to happen in this world as we continue to embrace more sound as medicine and culture and in our health care systems and things like that. Yeah, I love it. I'm hopeful to see the power of music and sound bring harmony to the health care systems. system and you know when I think about breakthroughs and harmony and teams that are beautiful I think that your team all of you here today have incredible insight and I think that every one of you here brings a unique perspective into a healing modality anybody watching this today I would encourage you to reach out to the moksha team look what they're doing over there reach out to the participants individually and don't take my word for it or anybody else's word for it do your own research.

But in my opinion, I don't think you'd be in better hands than with a team like this. And I think that everybody's speaking today is at the forefront and they're amongst the most compassionate team of individuals that I've met. And I'm so thankful for all of you getting to spend some time with me today. And, you know, I want to come back to Drew one more time and give him an opportunity to to just talk about in closing what it is that he's most excited to see happen here for Mochan as it opens up. I'm really excited for Oregon's legal psilocybin program to really kind of be taking off.

It's been a long time coming. And finally, the facilitation spaces are getting licensed and, And so I've started to see what that's going to actually look like when clients come and have these experiences. And I'm excited that this tool, such a, like, powerful, powerful tool to be used, you know, therapeutically. I think organs program isn't, it's not just a therapeutic program. It's not a medical model, right? but like for for me as a therapist to be able to have this for the people that it's right for to to really deepen their healing journeys and to have experiences like what I had to

to really expand consciousness in a way that that people can work through the stuff that they have to work through in order to become like their their fullest and best selves. And I've seen it. I have some incredible stories and maybe, yeah, we will talk again. Yeah. Because I've, you know, I've really seen some incredible things as a result of this. And I'm excited for that to be more open to more people and for this to really become mainstream.

Well, I think that like GOT said, that you have set the bar high. and I'm so thankful that you have said it at such a high level because I think that it's emerging right now and people need to see that which emerges as like a bellwether as a standard. And I'm so thankful that you are the standard. As we're closing, are there any final words or any final thoughts you have about, I mean, we've covered so much about the vision. And we have just scratched the surface about each individual and how unique they are and how much they care about it and what it means to have everybody come together.

But what do you, is there anything else that you want, you wanted to say in closing? I would, you know, I, I, I, I, we're innovators. I think that's, you know, that's clear. We're innovating. We're part of the innovations that are happening in this, in this new legal system. And I, you know, I have a background in clinical, uh, Treatment Center ownership and psychotherapy and managing and operating therapy teams in different settings and being a clinical director and chief clinical officer and all of that. So I saw the limitations of that world, but I also saw the good things.

And we're really bringing together tradition and the best of science in a unique way. At the beginning of every journey, we have a ceremony. And at the end of every journey, we have a ceremony. Ceremony is really important. It's something that always brought humanity together that has kind of got left behind. And so I'm excited that we can restore that, you know, taking a moment to acknowledge there's a power that's great and vast

that we're all part of that supports us at all times, whether we know it or not. whatever form that takes to you, for you, for each individual. As a part of innovation, I want to take the treatment arena to the next level. And for that reason, I have created a 28-day psilocybin-assisted recovery program for people with trauma or addiction. And we just got a beautiful retreat property that we partnered with here near Ashland, Oregon. and, you know, our retreat programs are very in-depth, even if it's a four-day program.

You're still going to get the best of all of our integration therapy and preparation and all of that. But when you are really battling something as serious as addictive disorders, then, you know, what's your go-to? You're going to go take 30 days somewhere and kind of get deep and sort through it and try to figure out all the aspects of it. But we know that's a failed system. It's a revolving door. We know that 90% of people who go through a 30-day rehab are going to be back where they started in one year. That's a horrible statistic. And so our hope is that people come to our 28-day program, not a treatment center.

It's a retreat, literally retreating the problem, right? And our greatest hope is that they don't come back. And I think that the studies are affirming that hope that we hold and the lived experience of the people that have used psilocybin for alleviating addiction and addiction disorders. And we have some treatment centers out there that are very interested in what we're doing. And we invite that conversation with anyone in that arena because this is a problem in this country. of epic proportions. It is truly a way bigger epidemic than we've ever had of anything. And there's not, there hasn't been an enduring solution for a lot of people.

And we believe this can be an enduring solution. So we invite people to watch what we're doing and stay tuned with us and reach out to us as a holistic alternative for getting rid of addiction. You know, we don't know what will happen for each individual person, obviously, but we do know what the science is showing, and we do know what our clients are experiencing. And we do bring together these worlds of clinical expertise on behalf of the people that come to our 28-day programs,

and we're very excited for that opportunity and to see what happens next. So, yeah, get in touch with our team. with any interest you have in psilocybin, and let's see where your journey will lead you. It's so beautiful, Zed. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for being here today, for listening and taking some time to spend with us.

Prima, thank you for all the work you're doing. Your background, a unique background, a unique upbringing, and I would refer people to our previous podcast if they really want to get a deeper dive on who you are and why you deeply care about the people you do and the way you do it. for Siena, the way in which you see patterns is so beautiful to me. It's like this beautiful mosaic, and I see it woven in the tapestry of all the healing that's done.

I'm really looking forward to you and I having a longer conversation. Drew, I can't wait to talk to you on a longer conversation. I see so much of the healing that people are talking about, and Rose is right. After talking to you, I feel like a deeper connection with you already. you do have a really unique ability, even over the internet, to reach into someone's soul and be like, hey, how's it going, buddy? So I love that. I can't wait to learn more about it.

Rachel, for you as well, I'm so thankful to get to bring to the forefront the difference between sound healing and sound therapy. You know, there's a difference between maybe putting on some East Forest, and then there's a whole another world where Rachel can bring this instrument to you and you can get actual therapy. So there's this giant difference there. Thank you for illuminating that. And GOT, obviously, I'm in awe of the tapestry that you've woven. I hope one day to thoroughly understand how you do that.

It's incredibly beautiful. And I'm thankful that you're bringing your ideas to help people in a way that will be lasting longer than all of us. And I love the way you've used a metaphor of the mycelium coming together underground. And now the fruit is starting to show itself above ground. That's all we got for today. Hang on for one second. I'm talking to you guys briefly afterwards. But to the, everybody after listening, what a tremendous show, right?

Are you kidding? Look at these people. They're amazing. So thankful to every one of you. That's all we got. Have a beautiful day. Aloha. Great Piny.

And I'll end up there.