TrueLife - Motorcycles, Money & Mental Health—A Deputy’s Second Act

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Today, I’m honored to introduce Rob Poynter — a man who has dedicated his life to service, resilience, and creating a lasting impact. Rob is a retired Deputy Sheriff with the Alameda County Sheriff’s Office, where he built extensive experience in patrol, airport security, community policing, special duty operations, and as a motorcycle deputy. Throughout his career, he developed a strong foundation in public safety, crisis response, training, and leadership.After retiring due to an on-duty motorcycle accident, Rob reinvented himself, transitioning into the world of private business. He now runs a private money lending business, applying his expertise in risk assessment and financial strategy. Rob actively manages investments through a Self-Directed IRA and LLC, using Infinite Banking principles to optimize liquidity and long-term wealth growth.But Rob’s story doesn’t stop there. He’s also the driving force behind Warriorside, a veteran-owned 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to supporting veterans who silently battle the invisible scars of war. With a mission to reduce the alarming rates of veteran suicide and depression, Warriorside provides a platform for veterans to share their raw, unfiltered experiences — stories born from courage, sacrifice, and the unbreakable bond of brotherhood and sisterhood. Rob believes that connection through storytelling is one of the most powerful paths to healing, creating a community where no one feels alone in their struggles.Rob’s journey is a testament to resilience and purpose, and through Warriorside, he’s making sure that no veteran fights their battles alone.http://linkedin.com/in/rob-poynter-b49649170https://warriorsidefoundation.org/events-page/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry Born from the blaze The poem is Angels with Rifles The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Kodak Serafini Check out the entire song at the end of the cast Ladies and gentlemen,

Welcome back to the True Life podcast I hope everybody's having a beautiful day I hope the sun is shining The birds are singing, the wind is at your back Today, I am honored to introduce to all of you in the world's greatest audience, Rob Pointer, a man who has dedicated his life to service, resilience, and creating a lasting impact. Rob is a retired deputy sheriff with the Alameda County Sheriff's Office, where he built extensive experience in patrol, airport security, community policing,

special duty operations, and as a motorcycle deputy. Throughout his career, he developed a strong foundation in public safety, crisis response, training, and leadership. After retiring due to an on-duty motorcycle accident, Robbery invented himself, transitioning into the world of private business. He now runs the private money lending business applying his expertise in risk management and financial strategy. Rob actively manages investments to a self-directed IRA and LLC. We won't be giving any financial advice to my listeners. I know you're going to ask.

Using infinite banking principles to optimize liquidity and long-term wealth growth. But Rob's story does not stop there. He's also the driving force behind. one of the greatest projects out there, Warrior Side, a veteran-owned 501C3 organization dedicated to supporting veterans who silently battle the invisible scars of war, with a mission to reduce the alarming rates of veterans' suicides and depression. Warrior Side provides a platform for veterans to share their raw, unfiltered experiences, stories born from courage, sacrifice, and the unbreakable bond of brotherhood and sisterhood. Rob believes that connection through storytelling is one of the

most powerful paths to healing, creating a community where no one feels alone in their struggles. Rob's journey is a testament to resilience and purpose. And through Warrior's side, he's making sure that no veteran fights their battles alone. Rob, I'm so stoked you're here. How are you today? I'm great. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. You know, we find ourselves in these trying times, and I guess they've kind of always been trying, but it seems like you have built a life on community and service. Like, were you just born awesome or how did that happen? I don't know about that. You know, even before I was in law enforcement, I was actually, I was a personal trainer. So I was helping people then. And then obviously law enforcement,

protecting and serving the community. I did it through that. And now really, I'm getting I don't know, more pleasure like helping volunteering. You know, when you volunteer, obviously you don't get paid monetarily, but you get something that is much better. And it just, I've just really enjoyed being able to do that. I love to hear it. You know, I think it speaks on the quality of leadership. And I think we get to that age when you start being able to,

to reflect back on your life and what you've accomplished and what you've done. And you start realizing, man, I want to do more. I want to be better. I want to do more. And the way you do they're at is through relationships. Like you've, you've had a lot of different, you know, whether it's owning gyms or being a personal trainer, working as a sheriff, you know, working with warrior side. What do you think it is about that, Rob, like these building of relationships and wanting to be part of something more that really drives the human condition? you hit something what you said like we're at this age

and I mean I guess we'll call it middle age I don't know but you know like people go like these two different paths and you know some people they want to you know buy things and and get stuff and but then other people they kind of go deep within themselves and try to figure out you know what what is their purpose what really makes them happy and that's kind of where I found myself I was just kind of like you know I'm in middle age and realizing things and and I really started realizing gosh I really

I said really quite a bit there but I enjoy helping and it just gives me so much more purpose and I feel good about it and I've made these connections these bonds with people just actually recent. I mean, I connected with Diego fairly recently, but I feel like this bond with him. And I've done that with several people lately. And I think that they've always been there, right? But I wasn't open to them. And that's something super, that's new for me. And we can go into, you know, why I think that's happening. but I don't know. I just feel this need to share my story because I don't think my story is like, you know, super duper unique.

I think that the difference with me now is that I'm being more vulnerable and just sharing it. And I think that that makes a big difference. And people see that and they're like, okay, that guy's kind of like me. and it opens them up because I'm willing to share my mess for back of a better term. It's brilliant. I love the way you put that. You know, and it's so many people that I see in this space and that are working tirelessly to help the community and make themselves the very best version of themselves.

Like it usually starts with the tragedy, man. So many of us, like I think that's the one thing, Rob, that we all have in common is that we go through these tragedies and we have these scars and the world is like, okay, now what? You've shown promise. Now what are you going to do with it? You know, it's like this clarion call to your better self or your higher self, like, look, you can help people. What are you going to do?

Would you mind sharing a little bit about, like, I'm sure that there's been plenty of stories in your life, but was there a certain type of tragedy that like really began your journey into like self-discovery and being like, I can share this and it'll help other people? Yeah, actually, I've got one that, you know, life was just kind of cruising along. I was in my career and I was riding my motorcycle home. It was November 14th, 2018. Just ride my county motorcycle, regular ride home that I always take. I saw a fresh green light up the road, gassed it, preparing to take the right turn that I've taken hundreds, if not thousands of

times and as I got into the turn I didn't realize there was a slick substance on the roadway bike started sliding um and then all of a sudden it caught traction and then it you know just tossed me it's an 800 pound Harley so there's a ton of torque and it just tossed me into oncoming traffic and I slammed down hard um and immediately you know my thumb was on fire uh so I looked down on my thumb started swelling up immediately, started squeezing. I couldn't squeeze it. And then I was like, oh gosh, this isn't good because that's my strong hand. But in my mind immediately, it's like, okay, that's my gun hand.

So, okay, that's a problem. And then I started trying to look around and I couldn't look around because my neck was just jacked. It felt like a steel rod had been just pounded down my neck. and I guess that's what happens when you land on your head. And then I went to lift up my arm and it was just like a dead weight, you know, and I was like, okay, my shoulder was just torn up inside and my bicep. And so the first thing that I was thinking at that time was, okay, how am I going to be able to do, it's weird what goes through my head, but how am I going to be able to do my job as a deputy sheriff if all my

physical capabilities or messed up. That was like the first thing. Like I was like, well, am I, you know, looking back, why was I thinking about that? And the way that I went to work was the opposite way that my wife went to work. And we would basically, one of us would work day shifts and the other would work night shift so that we would always be home for our son. And I knew she was going to be coming by this accident. and the motorcycle cop that actually arrived on scene and was taken care of me.

I said, dude, you got to call my wife because she's going to come by here and I don't want to freak her out. And so he called her and she came to the scene and she said, like pretty much immediately she came to the scene and she, you know, realized that I was not, you know, dead. But, and then she said to me, I think this happened for a reason. and smart-ass me, I said, well, yeah, you know, the reason is I took the corner too fast, you know, but I'll be back to work on Monday. And that was just my ego, right, talking. And, you know, she met something way deeper. And she was right.

And she, like she's always right, actually. And so, you know, I. I realized, because eventually I had, basically I ruptured the tendon in my thumb, my shoulder, the gleneral humeral joint, my bicep, I had to get that reattached. I ended up getting both my knees cleaned out. There's just a lot of stuff, right? So in that, I had all these surgeries and I had all this time and I had all this time to think, which I hadn't done in years because we have life, we have distractions.

Like with me, I had mandatory overtime. I had to be at court. I had reports to write. I had none of that stuff. I had just me and my thoughts. And in that, I realized how much damage I'd done. And not physical damage to me, but emotional damage to my way. wife and my son throughout my career. I'd just not been good. Like for lack of a better term,

I'd not been good to them. I'd not been the best version of me. And this was the, this was like, you know, I had nothing to do but think about that. And in the past, I'd kind of, you know, I shouldn't have acted like that or why was I so aggressive or why was I, you know, so angry or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But there was always a distraction to take me away. I always had to go to work or something came up. And so, you know, with this, there was nothing because I had nothing to do but think. And so I was really not happy with myself.

And I was like, I've got to be a better person. And so I went down a mental health, wellness kind of rabbit hole of how am I going to, how am I going to get better? How am I going to be the best person I can be? So I went down, you know, I was doing yoga. When I finally, I was scaling yoga because I had, this was in a cast, this was in a sling, and my legs, I did one knee at a time. So I was kind of scaling yoga.

I was meditating. I was journaling. You know, I'm writing novels. I'm reading self-help books, trying to read my way out of this. And absolutely, nothing. was touching essentially the anger and the rage that I had just manifested over time. And that manifestation was because I was never dealing with what was going on at work, like really dealing with the things that I was seeing.

And it was manifesting into, you know, first started with frustration and then anger. then rage. And so that kind of that started my journey, if that answers your question. I can go on long and long as long as you want, but that started the journey. I love it, man. I get goosebumps when I think about it. So many of us have just been on autopilot for so long because that's what maybe we thought we wanted or that's what we thought our family wanted or we were maybe we were given, you know, that's the family we grew up. up and hey you're going to get up you get a job and then you're going to you know you're going to retire there's like this sort of pre-made idea of what life is and when you start getting to our

age and you realize all the things that you really love you're neglecting your family your son your daughter your wife you know and you're at the end of the day you got a handful of dimes maybe you've done pretty well and you got a boat or something but like it doesn't it's so empty you know and it's it's so hard to process that rob when you're speaking about that like i just it hits to the gut man i And you're right. Our wives usually are right. It does happen for a reason on some level. They know it.

They feel it too. And it's, has it, like, as you began to scale and find, you know, the pathway to a better way, how has it changed your relationships with your family? Oh, I mean, it's night and day. I mean, you know, I grew up in a law enforcement. family. I'm just going to kind of regress here a little bit, but I grew up in a law enforcement family, a single dad, my mom split when I was seven. So I was always around, dude, like, you know, like a man. And so as far as my emotional intelligence, I'm, you know, 12 years old, right? And so, you know, my dad was a great guy, but he didn't deal with things and deal with his job.

He had a very difficult job. He was a homicide detective, so he saw a lot of really bad things. And the way that he dealt with it was he compartmentalized it and he drank alcohol, right? And so that's what I watched growing up. And so when I got into this job, I told myself, I'm not going to do the alcohol part. because it knocked 30 years off his life easily. And I watched this slow train wreck happen. And I was like, I'm not going to do that, right?

So I thought I was thinking, well, at least I'm not doing that. But I was basically, you know, bringing the armor home every single night. And it just bled into my home. And I'm thinking that I'm protecting my family. And I was pushing them away the whole time. And so, you know, I went through this mental health rabbit hole and I eventually I got to a point where I was frustrated because those things weren't working. The yoga, the meditation, the journaling, the self-help, the exercise. Like, I was going all out.

And I was frustrated. Then I was still angry and I was still rageful. and then I was doing all this work and there was no relief. And that led me to like exploring plant medicine. And, you know, you have to understand, like, for me, being in law enforcement, like, that's a huge dichotomy, right? Because I spent my whole life in law enforcement, you know, chasing bad guys, arresting people for drugs.

and now I'm like listening to these podcasts with veterans that are talking about, hey, this plant medicine has changed my life. It's helped me so much. I don't, you know, drink anymore, the anger, the depression, the anxiety. I understand how to deal with it now. And so it was like, you know, it hit me with a ton of bricks. And it just basically sent me down another rabbit hole of research. And, you know, within that, I've found, you know, that plant medicine's been around for 7,000 plus years.

It's not addictive. And it's proven to help, right? I mean, for 7,000 years, 7,000 plus years, this stuff's been working, far better than anything that we have now, you know. And so when I, I mean, I'm just a. sure we're going to get to the like you know I went to a retreat I did all that stuff but you asked about the family yeah this has changed my life it's changed my family's life and that that was really the whole goal was like I want to be the best person I can be for my family that that's what that's all I want because they deserve that right like if if I'm the best person I can

be I'm the best husband I'm the best I'm going to be the best dad but I've got to be the best me first. And I wasn't, I wasn't able to swing it on my, and I was, I wasn't figuring it out with this other stuff. So that's when I started exploring plant medicine. And after I did my retreat and coming home and integrating with them, it's, it's been phenomenal. I mean, like, I, I can't think of a better word than, it wasn't immediate, but because I came back with, a completely different mindset. And so they're looking at this person that's like not the dude that was edgy and like, you know, constantly expecting, you know, perfection.

That's what they were expecting. But I was just different. And so they were kind of like, who's this dude? But we've learned to integrate and I've learned so much. And it's still going on. You know what I mean? I'm still learning. which has been phenomenal.

Man, first off, thanks for sharing that. It's always fascinating to me to get to hear people's stories like that. You know, you said something about arresting people for drugs. Isn't it interesting to think that we label things drugs without really necessarily knowing what they are? Like, don't get me wrong, there's really bad drugs out there. And there's people that use them in a way that destroys themselves and their, families, but man, it just seems like sometimes these labels like, oh, you know, why don't we call alcohol a drug? It's like drugs and alcohol, but can you talk a little bit more about how

maybe your perception of drugs has changed? Yeah, I mean, I mean, to be honest with you, like, I don't look at this as a drug. Like, when we're talking about plant medicine, we're talking about, you know, psilocybin, mushrooms, those types of things. You know, after everything that I've been through, that's a medicine. You know, like it's a complete dichotomy of my law enforcement, you know, training and thinking and everything I did in the past. But when I did the research and I started looking at it and I started seeing how it's been helping people for so long, it's medicine. I mean, it's medicine.

It is straight up medicine. And it's so that, though, for someone for law enforcement, that's a real hard change, you know. And I mean, I honestly, I've, I honestly, I've, I've never arrested anybody for mushrooms anyway. It wasn't like it was some illicit thing on the street. Right. But, yeah, but it still has that stigma from, you know, the 60s, 70s that it was, you know, propagandized for lack of a better term, that it's this really bad thing. It's going to fry your brain.

You're going to have flashbacks. You're going to, you know, like it was just, you know, we were pumped. this kind of a false narrative about, I believe, psychedelics specifically. And I won't go too deep into why I think that was. But yeah, it really changed my whole thought processes on drugs, medicine, because this is a medicine. Yeah, it speaks volumes of change. You know, we've already spoken a lot about change, like getting into a potentially life or death situation, whether it's your kid dying, your wife having cancer, crashing, you know, losing your family, losing your house. Like, I can't help but think.

And it gives me sort of a, I get goosebumps when I think about, oh, this was necessary. This radical shift, whatever it was, for whoever's listening, whoever needs to hear this, whatever that radical shift is, whatever that radical shift is, it's necessary so that you can begin healing. Yeah. It's what you had mentioned I understand how to deal with it or you had heard people say that on a podcast and you've said that and maybe not those exact words but I now understand how to deal with it. Like what like for me when I think about that, I'm like, oh, you start looking at the science. You're like, oh, that's the neuroplasticity happening. That's the actual changes in my brain that's beginning me to tell my story differently.

Yeah. What, maybe you could speak to what that process was like because I know it's different for everybody and it's not a day change. You can't go to a retreat and make lasting changes in your life in a day, but you've been integrating this for a while. Maybe you could talk about some of the changes and how you were able to implement them and change your story a little bit. Yeah. So, yeah, like with the neuroplasticity and, you know, like the grooves and patterns that we build over years and years and years. they're hard like to just change on your own like they were for me i i guess i don't want to speak for everybody but i struggled trying to get out of those consistent you know grooves and patterns

and and then if you have if you're in a relationship you know you have those triggers that you know your wife says or i say to her and so it's it's very difficult to get out of that. And, you know, for me, like in coming back and integrating, I also started doing some serious meditation when I came back. Like, because before I was, I tried to meditate and I just could not get through the chatter going on in my head. When I came back, I took a course on Transcendental Meditation and really learned how to meditate correctly. And, and, And so that's been a real big help on just go because a part of my issue was a lot of stuff. But I was always beating myself up for things that I did in the past.

And then always really nervous, anxious about what was happening in the future. Like what, you know, and it could be something that I had taken care of, say, you know, I set aside all the money for my son to go to college, right? But I still would be nervous about it and still would have this huge amount of anxiety. And then the whole past thing was I would beat myself up over something that I'd already beat myself up over, which that doesn't make any sense. You know, like, why do I keep beating myself up? Like, if you do something bad, own up to it one time. Okay, cool, you did it, learn from it. But my pattern was just I would rehash it, rehash it, rehash it.

So I was in this constant state of, you know, beat myself up and then anxiety. And I didn't realize how bad of anxiety I had until I went down and did that retreat. And I came back. I went to I this is what I say I went down and I weighed three set three 50 and then I well no this is what I this is my how I felt I weighed 350 I came back and I weighed my normal 375 right that's how I felt all the time like I felt like I was 175 pounds more than I really was because I felt that weight all the time huge anxiety so being able to like have the north star of that

retreat, like, okay, this is how we're supposed to be. This is how we're supposed to feel, okay, until we get kind of programmed through life, through maybe our parents or the media or whatever. And then all that stuff starts piling on. And then they build those grooves into that neuroplasticity and they're just like, okay, this is how it is. This is how I am. you kind of get comfortable being like that. So the retreat, what that did was it gave me a North Star. And coming back, I knew that I wasn't going to always be feeling exactly like I felt down there. But since I had that North Star, I knew I need to figure out ways I can get back or close to it or not wait 53 years to get that feeling.

again, right? So for me, what's been great is like, I'm not perfect. I'm not, I didn't come. I didn't come. Yeah, no, believe it or not, I'm not perfect. But like, I don't want people to think, like you come back and you're just like, oh, yeah, this one thing and I'm perfect. That's not the case. I mean, things still happen. I still get angry. But what has happened, though, I'm able to, to kind of reel it in way, way, way faster than I have been ever in the past. Like things that would just weigh on me, bother me, that I would just get hung up on. I'm able to recognize it. I'm able to just like, I can stop, I can think about it.

You know, why do I feel like this? Why am I doing this? And I was not able to do that before. I can't explain exactly why that's happening now other than, you know, I was not like that before the medicine. I'm like that now. And it feels great. I feel my wife feels much better about it.

My son feels much better about it. And so it's just been such a life-changing experience. I love it. I mean, we're talking to an army of UPS drivers right now as a guy that used to be a UPS driver. So shout out to Vince out there. I love you, buddy. He was a mentor of mine. And it's interesting because when I start thinking about some of the guys that were the older guys, you know,

like we would have these long talks about the job and like much like you, it's mandatory overtime. It's 70, 80 hours a week and you never worked fast enough and you never did enough. And, you know, even on the management side, like those guys were just being bombarded by the guys across the country. And like so many of us, Rob, like so many of the men and women that are making this country work that are putting in the time that are working two jobs or moms working, dads working, kids, latchkey kid. Like, it's all of us that are going to make these changes. And when I hear what you're talking about, like it hits to the bone because I know that I've been through it. Every single UPS driver I know is going through it right now. But it's really hard to find that courage to make the change.

Like, if you're making $150, 100, maybe $200 grand, you know, you can, you have all these excuses why you shouldn't stop. You see everything just falling apart on some level. Maybe we could speak to the idea of courage, man. Like, how do you define that and how have you applied it in your life to make changes? Yeah. Courage to me is like doing the hard stuff. Like really basically, it kind of goes hand in hand with vulnerability to a certain degree. like vulnerability to me

I'd said this in the past I'd been like yeah it takes great strength to be vulnerable I'd said it right totally yeah right you know you say it or you hear someone say oh yeah yeah no exactly there's so much stuff that became so much more clear after doing those and not necessarily clear but just like feel like I feel

what those things mean and so like vulnerability so it's so much stronger it takes so much more strength for me to say man I need help like I need help I you know I need help and then for me to be like I'm fine I'm cool and and just walk away that's like the total easy way out right but I never was looking at it like that I was just like you know vulnerability whatever yeah that's for later the road or something but I guess with courage it's it's doing these things that you know they they seem like they're hard and your ego has told you you know what are you doing that for you don't need to do that everything's fine and even like doing this like right now like what

are you doing that for you know no one wants to hear what you have to say you know just chill out There's no reason to do it. But just kind of understanding like, hey, that's my ego. And my ego just wants to be status quo and steady Eddie. I want to do this, like doing this podcast because I want to help. I want people to see like, okay, there's this somewhat square dude who was a cop. And he's kind of like me. and he did the research on plant medicine.

He was in law enforcement, and he realizes that it's medicine. And, you know, if I can just affect, you know, one person who'd be like, well, okay, I want to explore that. That dude seems pretty squared away. He's not, and I have nothing against, you know, tie-dye or anything like that, But I think when people, they see that, they're like, oh, okay, cool, that guy's from the 60s or whatever. But I'm just like a, you know what I mean?

Like I'm just dad who was in law enforcement. I've been married for 23 years. I'm pretty square conservative type of guy. And so is it courageous for me to be going out and saying stuff and doing this stuff? I mean, some people might say, yeah, it is. I mean, like, the people from my world of law enforcement, they're like plant medicine. Come on, dude.

And so that's something that, you know, when I first started talking about it and, you know, thinking about it. Well, it was something I had to kind of overcome too, because there's a stigma of in law enforcement, a stigma of mental health. health. Like you, if you, you, you can't say you've got a problem. Because if you do that, then, you know, you're not going to get that promotion or you're not going to get that assignment

that you want or no one does, no one's going to want to work with you. So you just kind of, you push it down. You don't say anything. So for me, like, I, I think it's courageous when, when, when guys, and I'm not, I'm not tooting my horn. I'm the same. I think it's courageous when guys will say, hey, man, I need help. Like that, that last call where, um, And I'll give you an example. I had a call on Christmas Eve where a husband killed his wife in front of their two kids on Christmas Eve. And Mike, like, and then I go home the next day. Like, I've got, you know, family, and I go home the next day.

And you can't sit in front of your tree and be happy with your family. without thinking about that. You know, like that, that will never go away. Like that never, like Christmas comes, and I always think about, you know, that call. And those poor little kids that had to see that happen. Did I say anything at the time? Like, hey, you know, raise my hand.

I'd like to talk to, you know, peer support. Or I'd like to talk to a psychotherapist. No, I didn't. So I think it takes. takes courage to do that. That to me, that's, that's courage. Those are, those are tough things to do. Man, I don't even know if tough, I don't know if there's a word to describe what that is.

Like that is a scene that plays forever and is haunting. And, you know, I don't, I don't know anybody by themselves that's capable of dealing with that. And that's, we start getting into the PTSD. Steve, we start getting into, you know, all these things that happen in our lives that our family strategy was just to sweep it under the rug. Hey, let's just pretend like that didn't happen. Hey, let's just, you know what, no, they'll talk about that. Your uncle's going to get all mad or, hey, you know what? I'm not going to take it out. But when you don't have an outlet, it manifests in those ways you were talking about where you come home with the armor on. And then you can't talk to your kid or your wife or

you blow up at your wife because you saw this thing, but you're really fighting over a grocery bill, but really you're fighting over like, I can't fucking take this anymore. You know? Yeah. No. It's so destructive. Yeah. No, it is.

And that's what it was. You're manifesting all of that other stuff, but then they catch the brunt of it, you know, but it has nothing to do with that bill. It has to do with that call and, you know, and you have to keep going. Like in that, you know, first responder line of work and I'll just speak about long. enforcement is there's 10 more calls waiting on the board you've got to go you can't be hung up on that call you've got to keep going because you know there's 10 more calls and that's just how it is there's nothing you can do so yeah it's it's sad because you see so many families blow up

and I was in one my dad was married four times five five if you count one wife that he married twice. So, you know, I mean, and I get, you know, why the, why the women left, because he was, you know, not cool. He was cool. I learned a lot from him and how not to be in a relationship and not to do a relationship. I thought, I think I did quite a bit, yeah. But yeah, I mean, I have so many friends and, you know, people I know that, that, the, the relationship just blew up. And just extremely sad. You know, the peripheral damage that it does, other collateral damage, not peripheral,

collateral damage it does to families and generations, right? Because it's not just like that family unit. It's, you know, those kids. And then those kids have learned from how that happened. And then that trauma just, you know, it keeps on kind of going down. So yeah, it's rough, man. Man, it's so well said. Like, I'm sure you can echo this,

but I know so many of my good friends whose marriages were just, they couldn't do it anymore. Not because either one of them were bad people, but because of the demands that the society, but more than that, the demands that they thought they had to do, the person they thought they had to be, it ruined what they could have been.

And, man, One of my goals with this podcast is like if we could just get a guy younger than me to do it than when I did it, like maybe that would save his kid having to break that cycle. And it sounds to me like we're talking about cycles here. I'm like, you broke the cycle. Obviously there was a pattern there. Maybe it took an accident. Maybe it took an act of God.

Whatever it took, like you broke that cycle. And now your kids don't have to repeat that cycle. Whatever we don't break, our kids have to care. For me, that was a huge one on some level. Yeah. Yeah. It's, and I think these stories are powerful, man. Yeah. I hope I broke the cycle. Like I hope because my youngest son is 20 years old and, you know, like I want to have a great relationship with him. You know, like I really, you know, I want to have a great relationship with him. And I, I pushed hard. You know, I pushed really hard when he was young. And looking back, I'm just, like, God, what was I thinking? You know, what was I doing? And so, you know, I've been able to talk to him about so much now and really just being

open and honest. And, yeah, that's my goal. I want to break the cycle. And I don't want him to continue. And I want to have this strong relationship with him and my wife. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting.

You know, we talk about plant medicine and how it has these radical effects. But it seems to me the story I'm hearing from you is you become the medicine. Then you become the person that can make those changes. Then you become the person that can talk to your son. My goal, you know what I, like I, I'm hopeful that we can start doing something like this with our kids. It's almost like a right of passage. I know that's a controversial statement. And I'm not saying someone that's seven or something like that.

But I think there's an age where a dad could sit down, you know, and like you said, it's going on for 7,000 years. We just kind of forgot about it. But this whole thing we're talking about is a right of passage. What does your family think about you do in plant medicine? They, they're, I mean, now they're happy. I mean, my wife is. And now they're happy. I have a wonderful wife.

My wife is very supportive of me. And I, I, you know, I am like a dream. I love it. Kind of like a seeker. Like, because I, you know, I owned a gym. And then I, you know, one of our members was the wife of the undersheriff of the agency I eventually went work for. And I started talking to her about, you know, hey, I always wanted to be in law enforcement. Just talking.

And she's like, oh, we'll talk to my husband. I talked to her husband. He's like, yeah, come on. Put an application. I literally just went home one day from the gym. And I said, yeah, I'm going to put an application into the deputy. And my wife was like, but what are you talking about? Like I'd never told her about me wanting to do that when I was young or anything like that.

But she's so supportive. And so she's like, okay, that's what you want to do. So this was kind of like somewhat the same thing. Like I'd been talking to her like on a different level though because I was like, hey, I want to be the best person I can be. I think that this is going to be a tool that can help me. And so, but she was scared. You know what I mean? She's scared.

She's scared of, you know, like, God, he's going to, you know, he's going down to Mexico. I can't talk to him. We've been through, you know, like I'm sure you've been in relationships. You go through so much stuff together, you know, you go through marriage, obviously, family, life, birth, death, financial stuff. But you do it together. And so she wasn't going to do this with me. This was just me, you know? And so she was very concerned.

She didn't, she wasn't like, I don't want you to go. Right. She was supportive. I want you to go. I want you to do what you want to do. And my son, super, super duper supportive. And as far as like a ride of passage, I totally agree. When I came back, I was like, dude, because he wants to be a first responder.

He's going to college as a. fire ecology management major. So he wants to be a firefighter. And so I was like, I think it would be phenomenal to do this. To, I mean, essentially reboot your system bit before you wait 53 years to do it. And, you know, just kind of, I don't want to say start with a clean slate, but have an understanding of, you know, all this stuff that we've done. done in the past, good or bad or whatever, we need to look at it and we need to look at it as like a learning experience. And I don't, I didn't want him to kind of go down the same road as me

as beating myself a whole time, being anxious for stuff that was may or may not happen and just not being present. So I, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm ready to go with him whenever he's ready. Man, like it just makes me think, like, I could see you having your own, sort of ceremony with first responders. Like, you can make the argument that the majority of first responders would benefit from something like this prior to even beginning work, like, or indefinitely after like a few years. Like, it could be a real incredible way for them to integrate some of these difficult issues

we're talking about. Do you know about any projects out there right now that are kind of taken first responders and- Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad you asked. So the way that I even was able to do this was through an organization called the Siren project. And it was started by two firefighters who, you know, basically Angela, the founder, was all these feelings that I have. She was having.

She was trying to figure it out. And she was able to get into one of the veterans, the veterans sponsored retreats. So she went down to Mexico, did a retreat and was the first. like, oh my, my God, this is phenomenal. I've been waiting my whole life to, like, do this, essentially, right? Like, what's taken so long? So she told the main facilitator down there, Dr. Andrea Lucy, like, hey, I'm going to start my own nonprofit. I'm going to be back within a year. You know, will you be my point person, my main facilitator? And Dr. Andrea Lucy was like, oh, okay, yeah, sure, which I'm sure, you know, you hear that I'm sure all the time, like, right? Because

like everybody's like, oh my God. Yeah. But, but she did it. So she established this nonprofit called the Siren Project. And she, you know, got the funding. And she's been sending people, sending first responders down to Porta Vyarta for the last two years. And so that she's, I think there's, uh, on group number nine. I think, nine or ten. So she's been able, she's sent coming up on 60 or 70 first responders down. No money out of their pocket other than like the plane flight down. So she's gone out, sought funding, set it up, and she's doing a phenomenal job at that.

And I, like, I have a tremendous, like, pull to help them because they changed my life, right? Like I look at them and I'm like, oh my gosh, you guys, you know, you changed my life. And so that's one of the drivers for me is putting myself out there is that, look, I'm retired. I can't get fired for talking about what I'm talking about. There's a lot of people that probably are first responders that may have done a retreat that would like to be saying what I'm saying. So that's why I'm like, I'm just going to put myself out there and just say, hey, this. this is phenomenal. It worked for me.

I'm not telling everybody they need to do it, but it worked for me. And I'm not going to hold back and not say how I feel. And while it is plant medicine and, you know, it's looked at by some people as, you know, bad stuff, it's been proven for so long. And I just, I can't not say anything anymore. Man, I can't not say anything anymore. Whoa, that should be like, that's a mantra right there. Like you get to that point, right?

We're like, I'm not going to do it anymore. I'm not going to. Yeah, I mean, right. I just, I'm not going to sit here and deny that it doesn't help, right? That's silly. Yeah, and it's like that goes, like for me, that goes along with so much. Like that feeling of, wow, look what this thing did for me. this medicine different me i'm not going to do it anymore like that begin that particular mantra

begins to apply to all of your life like you know what i'm not going to lie to myself anymore you know what i'm not going to i'm not going to lie to this guy i'm not going to lie to anybody anymore you know when you start really coming into your own and you told the beautiful story about the siren project and how she went down there she found a way to do it it seems to me and you're further down the line than a lot of people but it seems to me after you go through this phase of sort of starting from the ground up and maybe losing everything, you start rebuilding, then you become this other person and all of a sudden you have this new life. Like you have a whole new life now. I'm like you're doing

some incredible work with warrior side and like other things. Maybe you could talk about sort of this new life you built for yourself after, you know, the second mountain. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because I've felt for a long time that I've had a lot of, uh, oh, good thoughts, good positive thoughts, but I always had this like chatter that was just, I couldn't get it through. And since, you know, I've done this plant medicine, I feel way more clearer. I feel like I have a voice. I feel like I can kind of, you know, I've got a bit of leverage just based on my law enforcement career. So I've got a little bit of voice with that. but, you know, with the warrior's side, it's incredible to be able to tell a story and not like,

like, I said, I just told you guys a little bit of story about like that thing on Christmas Eve. So, but to tell a story and then to come, you know, all the way around and have like a kind of a good learning experience at the end of it. And that's kind of what has happened with me. I took this trip down to Porto Vierre, and, you know, I took an enormous amount of drugs, we'll say, you know, medicine, right? And I never would have thought, you know, that I would have gone down to Portoviarda and done that. But through everything that's happened to me and all the positive stuff that's happened to me, the arc of that story, you know, there was a lot of bad things prior.

There was stuff that I've learned from. But I'm so glad that I took that trip, you know, a trip for lack of a better term, but I took that journey down to Mexico and I did it. And it's, you know, at the beginning of this we were talking, I've made so many good connections just since then. Like I've made so many good connections with people like you. You know what I mean? Like you're like we're on this like same page.

And it's about helping people. You know, there's no, I'm not looking to get, you know, rich off of anything or I'm sorry. My dog is barking. Sorry about that. I'm looking to make connections. I'm looking to help people. I'm looking to people that can kind of like relate with me. Like I'm looking for them to be like, okay, yeah, I want to do what he's done because he's like me.

So I've just been able to like, it's a completely different perspective from what I was raised at. You know, like you, you got to make a lot of money. You know, you got to promote. You got to do all these things. And this is something different. You know, like, I'm getting this exchange of something positive. And it's not like I'm getting money, but I'm getting something better with these connections with people. And I've, I've never been like that. I've never thought like that. I've never had that mindset. And through this journey, this is what it's given me. And it feels phenomenal. I don't know if that answered your question. Yeah, it totally does. It totally does.

And you're absolutely right about us being on the same page. And it seems that for me, in my experience, there's a balance, like there's a connection to spirituality. that I never knew could exist in the frame that it does now. You know, for me, like, I go into like Sunday school. I guess I was raised somewhat as a Christian. But I never, my family never really practiced religion or stuff. And, you know, of course, we have different friends from different religions. But for me, it's fundamentally changed the way I see myself in the world.

And I struggle to find a better word than spiritual because I see it. You know, when you look down, I find myself going for a high. and I'll look down at the root to the trees and I'll just study it from them. There's a whole ecosystem here. The way these ants are moving through and there's dissecting this cockroach over here and then they're taking all the... And as soon as I see that, I can't help but apply what I saw in that ecosystem to my life. And I'm like, you know what? I got a few ants running around.

They're dissecting this problem on me, you know? And it's almost like it's a language in nature that we have either shut ourselves off of or we've become callus to but for me plant medicine has really opened up my eyes to learning from the environment in a way that I never knew possible like I see it everywhere and it's so inspiring and maybe there's maybe the imaginal is a better word but spiritual seems to be something that people come back with a sense of what is your relationship have you noticed that as well absolutely um i like to kind of talk on what you're saying like I feel like I've been able to just kind of plug in to something completely different, you know?

Yep. It's completely different. I'm just like plugging it, I mean, you know, plugging into a different dimension almost. I know that sounds kind of funny, but that's what I feel like. And I'm not telling everybody that they need to do plant medicine in order to plug in that dimension because I know that there are some people

that can plug in to whatever you want to call that. without doing it. And I, you know, if you can do that, I, I think that that's awesome. Because when I came back, I was like, everybody's got to do this, right? I was just like, you know, everybody has to do this because we would be such a better place if everybody did this, right? But, you know, then I realized that, you know what, not everybody needs to do it. If they can get there through a different route, that's totally cool. And I was, you know, it was probably a little bit arrogant to think like that.

Like, you know, I did this. You can do it. And it turned some people, because I've got friends and I'm like, dude, this is perfect for you, bro. Like, come on. I know that this is going to help you. Yeah. But, you know, not everybody's ready to do it at that time. But yeah, no, like spirituality-wise, absolutely. I feel very much more plug-yed. into people and I'm just on the same same wavelength and just kind of going back to the question you had before and the warrior side I think when you're telling your story which is what the warrior's side is all about it's it's so powerful to be able to to get that out and And, you know, it feels like therapy. It feels like every time you're kind of telling your story, I feel much better when I do.

And, you know, like when people are really connecting with that story and they're just like, oh, yeah, okay. That feels really good, too. And with the warrior side, you know, we've got veterans and first responders that have these incredible stories. and people want to hear them. And, you know, the warrior side and Diego is teaching us how to tell the story so that it's a really good, basically, we're sitting around the campfire story. And that's how basically all of our, you know, ancestors got information down to the next ancestors before, you know, books and computers and computers and all that stuff. but the storytellers are the ones that were the people that were sharing that information. And that's how you knew about your ancestors and great, great, great, great, great, great,

you know, Uncle Bill, because that story was brought down over time. And with the warrior's side, it's just, it's incredible to see, like for myself. I mean, I've got ideas, but to be able to tell a story. in a way in which it's going to connect with people. It's completely different. And that's really one of the main things that the border side does is like it really helps structure. Diego and John, they're world-class coaches, like literally world-class coaches. And they're providing this to veterans and first responders to help them. And I'm so grateful for both of them that they're doing this. Yeah.

I couldn't possibly agree more on that level. I think there's something unique, too, about not only finding the way in which to tell a story that'll resonate with people, but it's like you guys have a whole audience of people that are there that, you know, I'll call them like initiates. The people that are kind of drawn to it have been initiated in a way. Maybe they haven't taken the next step after initiation. But when you're in a room for the people that have a heartfelt story to tell, it's probably because you're in the audience have a heartfelt story to tell. And it's contagious.

When I see you get up, even on this podcast now, like it's a contagious thing, like the way we talk, the way we think, the experience that we've had. And you can convey that and help out other people. It must be like magic in the room. Have you done the House of Blues before? Is this the first one coming up? And maybe you could speak. No, this.

What is it going to be like to sit in a room full of people to congratulations? man i can't wait to check it out um yeah no this is the first one um so for me so yeah no i'm i'm really looking forward to it um obviously i'm nervous because you know it's a house of blues of course kind of a big deal but um yeah the goal is to give the audience um to be at their service right and because they're coming um to hear our stories and i'm i'm You hit it on the head. Like when they're coming for something like that, it is something that, you know, they want to hear your story

because they've probably got a story. And then they can relate to your story. And like I was saying earlier, like I don't think that I'm super unique at all. But what I think the difference is maybe between the initiates and me is that I will go up on stage. You know what I mean? I'm going to go for it. I'm going to set the ego and the monkey mind. I'm going to put that back. I'm going to push that back and just be like, you know what? I'm just going to, I'm going to be at these people's service. And hopefully when I do that, it'll inspire maybe someone else to do the same thing because I think if we can do that,

that's going to help them feel so much better because I know how good it helps me. You know what I mean? know how much it helps me and how good I feel when I do something like that. Man, I'm so excited for it. It's such a cool thing. And Rob, I knew this conversation was going to go fast, man. Like an hour goes by so quickly. How long is your story going to be up there? Do you have like a certain amount of time?

Yeah, so 10 minutes. 10 minutes. Yeah, we each have 10 minutes. And yeah, and I've heard the stories because I was with the group a couple weeks ago. and they are phenomenal stories. Like really, really, really touching. I think that, you know, when the people go, they're going to just be so stoked to hear these stories.

And they're real. You know, they're from the heart. It's not made up. So, yeah, it's going to be a phenomenal show. You know, I think our generation got into the idea of going to the theater and being like a nice. anesthetized. But when you go to an event like this, you come out changed. Like you come out, like you're going there. Even an active listener as a participant in something like this. It's,

it's unlike anything that we've done. It's sort of a mix of like, imagine going and seeing the band you've always liked the most or a band you, maybe you didn't like you knew, but you were like, that's the greatest thing ever. Like, you come out of these events changed. It's unlike anything that Generation X has really gone to. You know, you got to see it when you went to South America. But, you know, this is a whole event that's like beginning to sort of bloom like a flower in spring. And people are going there and they're getting changed and they're becoming part of the community and they're learning how to be the best versions of themselves, man. And you're a huge part of that. Man, I'm so thankful that you're doing it. And it does take courage. Like,

a lot of people quit. I've quit in my life tons of times. So I'm always inspired when I see people that are taking those next steps to share what they've learned. That's another problem too in life. I think a lot of people hold on to this information because they think it makes them better or they don't want to share it. But the ultimate act is in the sharing of the knowledge, man. And it takes the right audience. But any thoughts on that? Sure. Yeah.

Like personally, I think that it's extremely important to get different perspectives. Yeah. And because personally, I only know so much. but if I can get, you know, George's perspective and Diego's perspective and John's perspective, that's just going to help me and benefit me. I think people get really hung up on just marrying their own idea and they don't want to think or take in any other perspective. And that's unfortunate because, yeah, you can get so much. more when you're for you know radically open-minded like if you can become radically open-minded I think that you will be much better off and and the

plant medicine has helped me with that too like to become way more open-minded to different ideas and different perspectives and I think that like when you go to a show like this you're going to get a different perspective than maybe you think Like, I know if there's like a first responder sitting in the audience, they're going to get my perspective. And that's probably going to be different than maybe what they probably have, right? If they haven't gone and done plant medicine. But I've got this unique perspective because I've, you know, went down and did it. But my lead up to doing it is probably going to be very parallel.

to what that person's gone through. So that's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping that, you know, like people will be open-minded and they will just kind of say, okay, well, that's a different perspective. Plant medicine, I never thought about it like that. And so I think that if people can just be radically open-minded, it could change a lot of things.

Yeah, well, I got a lot of listeners down in San Diego. It's where I'm originally from. Shout out to the Teamsters 542. What's up, guys? If you're down there, go check out this event. It's going to be at the House of Blues in San Diego on March 29th. There's going to be an incredible amount of speakers. I think they're, I don't know, it might be sold out, but there might be a few tickets left.

If anybody's listening, you should probably get them now. It's going to be an epic event. And I think you guys are, there's a tour going on involved, but this event's the next one in San Diego on the 29th. So ladies and gentlemen, yeah, head on down, check it out. And before I land the plane here, Rob, I just wanted to give a, give a, you a moment to maybe tell people where they can find you, what you got coming up and what you're excited about. Okay. You can find me on Facebook. I'm just Rob Pointer. LinkedIn, Rob Pointer, Instagram, it's at R-A-W-B- underscore Z-O-N-E. I'm also, I have a substack where I write some

articles. That's Rob Pointer. As far as what's coming up for me, I don't really know. I mean, I'm just, I'm really focused on trying to help warrior's side and trying to help the Siren Project. You can also check out the Siren project at the sirenproject.org. And there's information on there if you're first responder, married to a first responder, a child of a first responder, you can put in an application and you can go down to a retreat. Let's see. I think that's it. I'm very grateful that you let me come on here and talk about this, George.

That also takes courage, right? Like, not everybody is open to talking about plant medicine and, you know, like people push away from it. But it takes courage. It takes courage to do things that, you know, aren't the norm. And I really appreciate you doing that and letting us talk about it. So thank you so much. Yeah, man. It's my pleasure.

I'm super stoked. There's a definite stigma. Like if you, people should know that too. Like if you're going to go in for change, there's going to be people that wish you didn't change. There's going to be people that say you messed up. You did this thing wrong.

But that's, it's never about you. The person that tells you things about that, it's always about them. If you can just remember that, it'll totally help you stay away from the stigmas and maybe even people you care about, look at you.

I'm like, hey, what are you doing? But don't worry about that. Be the best, of you. So ladies and gentlemen, hang on briefly afterwards, Rob, but to everybody within the sound of my voice, I hope you have a beautiful day. I hope you find the courage to become the very best version of yourself, whatever that means. And I think you could do a good start at that by checking out Rob, checking out Diego, checking out Warrior's side, and do yourself a huge favor and check out this event

on March 29th at the House of Blues. Ladies and gentlemen, that's all we got. Aloha.