TrueLife - Natalia Varela - Audio Artist

Episode Date: January 22, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Natalia is a passionate Sound Designer and SoundEngineer. She has been able to work with major global brands to create engaging audio-visual content for TV, social media, radio and film. Recognized for her expertise in foley design, voice over recording and direction, sound editing, sound mixing, mastering, music supervision and script writing.The first Salvadoran to win a WIFT award (Women in Film and Television) for best international female creative for her work as script writer and sound designer in the short film 'GHOSTS'. One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry Born from the blaze The poem is Angels with Rifles The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini Check out the entire song at the end of the cast Ladies and gentlemen,

Welcome back to the True Life podcast We've got an awesome show for you today We are here with the One and Only Natalia Varela I hope I said that correctly Yeah, you did. Nice. She's an audio artist, a sound designer, a sound engineer.

She's worked with major global brands, creating engaging audio, visual content for TV, social media, radio, film. She is the first Salvadorian to win a WIFT award, which is the women in film and television. That sounds awesome. We're going to learn all about it. And Natalia, thanks for spending some time with me this morning. Did I leave anything out there? No, I thank you. you courage a lot. Thank you for inviting me. I'm so excited to have you. It's it's such an

interesting time to be alive to as much as as as much as calamity seems to be out there. There seems to be a lot of opportunities and it seems to me that you have found a unique way to live your life and I wanted to help amplify that message and maybe you can inspire some other people to do some things like that. So what? Maybe we could start off with where you're from and how you got to be where you are. Sure. Yeah. So I'm originally from El Salvador. It's in Central America, for those who are not familiar with it. And yeah, so I moved to Europe when I was like 14, 15, just because of my dad's job. So we had to move around a lot. So I lived like five years in the Netherlands. Then I lived a couple years in Belgium. Then I went to uni to study sound in London, UK.

And after that, I went back to El Salvador. And just like you, I ended up meeting my husband and staying longer than I planned and stirred a family. And then we decided to move here to Canada just a few months ago. So we were here in Montreal. It's amazing to me. I have learned in my life that traveling at a younger age, if you're lucky enough to do, do it has long-lasting effects on the way you see the world. Did you find that to be similar? Oh, absolutely. Especially coming from a country like El Sabler, it's a very like conservative country.

So I can see the difference when I go back with people that haven't left and how they kind of still view the world. And it's not that it's bad. It's just different. And yeah, it does open up. I think you can become a lot more empathetic because you just realize this. There's just so many different people. When I went to school in the Netherlands, I went to an international school. So, like, in my class, there was people from, like, all over the world. It was like we had people from Israel, from China, from Africa, from South America.

You know, they had me from El Salvador. I think I was the first. And yeah, we just all got along together. And that's just so enriching. Like you just, you know, you just learn that just everyone's coming from a different place. And it's not really your place to tell everyone what to believe, what to think. You just get to accept that everyone's just kind of in their own path. And I think, like, in today's context, that's so important with so much like, I don't know, like in social media,

you can find nowadays like a lot of like people really like defending like I don't know like I don't want to say an agenda just like view like their own view like this is how people should think and it's like no everyone has their own right to think how they think you know they're just on their own path and I think when you travel you really just get to like experience that just really just learn that everyone it's just different and the best you can do is just accept them Yeah, that's really well said. And sometimes it can be hard because especially if you live so long in one spot, you really begin to build up like that cultural residue on you. You know, and you begin to see things in a way that people have always seen.

And like you said, it's not bad. It's just different. Yeah. And so how much of effect did that have on you choosing to become someone who's working with sound? Like, what inspired you to do that? Okay, so honestly, like, how I got into sound, I don't know if that inspired much. I think it was just me being like a teenager and I loved going to concerts. Like, I would just any money that I could like save, I would spend it on concerts.

I loved it. So I thought, like, okay, if I liked me in concert so much, why don't I work in concerts? And I wanted to be like a live sound engineer. But then when I started uni, I realized I didn't like that. Like, it's not the same, like, going to concerts, then working in one as a sound engineer. It's absolutely stressful. It's like, you don't enjoy the concert. So I was like, yeah, I don't like this.

But then in uni, I, they don't, like, I studied audio production. So you do cover live sound, but you cover other areas as well. So I, when we saw the module on, like, post-production, I fell in love with it. I was like, okay, this is what I want to do. And I just loved the idea of like getting like something with no sound, like a film with no sound and just recreating it all. Like I found that it was like so much fun and it just opened so much possibilities. So that's kind of the path I went for. And I started working in radio as well just because I like music so much. So I started like doing internships in radio.

and having my own radio shows and producing radio shows. So I just kind of went on the radio and post-production kind of path. And that's how I got into sound, actually. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, it's a fascinating medium. And I don't know if a whole lot of people really take time to think about how important a sense it is. Like, you know, the voice of your mother, the voice of your child or the voice of a loved one and, you know, the sounds in the street.

Like, we're just surrounded by all these different sounds and they have so much, there's so much meaning and relationship that comes from the sounds that we hear that we might not even be aware of. What, what do you, what do you, can you talk a little bit more about, you know, what it is that you act like you're, you're putting sound to silent films or you're, you're building in a soundtrack, but you're working with video games. Like, what are some other ways that you work with sound? Well, I think, like, just kind of touching back on what you started with, like, that people don't really, like, realize. And we joke a lot in this job that, like, people realize our job, like, if we do it badly. Like, you're just, it's just something that comes in so, like, naturally, you're not thinking

about it that much unless something's wrong. Right. So if you go see a movie and the sound is well done, you're not going to think about it. But if there's like an error in the sound or something like that, you'll be like immediately. And it's funny how like, yeah, a lot of people don't really pay that much attention to it. But it's when making it like a film or whatever media you're doing, like if you don't have sound, it's like 50%. It's like 50-50, what you see and what you hear. if you don't have sound,

you don't really have a movie unless it's like a silent film, you know? And just music can like really control your emotions. Like if you have like a piece of music in certain scenes, without that piece of music, the scene can be like completely different. Like it just dictates so much, but it's just, it's pretty subtle, I guess, if you do it right. Yeah. But yeah, I think with.

sound that's mostly what i do um like i mentioned like radio as well and i do um i do some meditations with like uh with like different like frequencies like i i like to yeah i like to listen to i just put like on youtube i just listen to certain frequencies um as i'm kind of like falling asleep or meditating because i i feel like it puts me in like certain state and um i like that I was experimenting a lot with lucid dreaming. And yeah, I was so, and I got pretty good at it. And then I kind of wanted to transition to like astral projection. So I know that like there's this, there's like this binaural beats that you can play.

And it puts you like in certain state. But I haven't managed to do it by myself. It just happened like spontaneously without doing that. But yeah, that's another use that I give to sound. It's like use it for to like enter certain meditative states. Yeah. That is awesome. I was, I've been, I've seen like the 532 megahertz frequency and I've listened to some different binaural beats and things like that.

And I have to agree that it definitely put you into a trans like state. And if you look back into different cultures, you can see people using drumming and, you know, different. drum circles and different ceremonies, but there always seems to be a component of sound in there that helps us get to that certain spot like that. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, no, I know that like in, like the Tibetan, like the sound bowls, I know that they're tuned to like a certain frequency.

And I think I'm not an expert in it, but I know kind of like the science behind it is that, well, they believe that each of those tunings, each of the frequencies, that the bowl emits, it's kind of like, it matches each one of the chakras. So when you go on like a sound healing session, what they do is just kind of play these different frequencies while you're laying down so that they kind of like balance each of your energetic points that people call chakras. Yeah.

You know, now that you think about that, I think that there's all kinds of experiments that could be done. I know that when you're sleeping, you go into like different states of brain waves, like theta and beta. And I'm wondering, I'm willing to bet, I mean, I don't have a lot of money, but I'd bet a dollar. I would bet $1 that the certain frequencies, whether it's the 532 or whether it's the sound bowls, I bet.

I bet you those frequencies match up our brain waves. So if you're going to be in a lucid dreaming state, which is like a deep beta wave or I'm not sure, I'm just kind of throwing that out there. But I bet you that those sound waves match up and they kind of make your brain go in tune with that sound like that, which brings us to sound waves. Like, first off, does that first part of what I said makes sense?

And second off, what do you know about the waves and matching up like that? Yeah, absolutely. I think it does make sense. I think like you said, probably there are some studies. I don't know. I haven't looked much into it. But that'd be interesting to look into if there have been any kind of test done before. But yeah, it totally makes sense just because, yeah, like you said, when we're entering different states, like an REM state or like a fetus state, like the brain is emitting different types of waves.

and in the end, sounds are waves. So, yeah, so it would make sense. Yeah, absolutely. And then that brings into the idea, like, if you look at people who use, like, psychological techniques of, like, neuro-linguistic program, if I begin to talk like this, then you may understand what I'm, you know,

like people start using different cadences, which is basically just changing the sound, changing the waves in which we, in the way in which we communicate. It's so fascinating how it's all interconnected, like that. Can you tell us about one of the lucid dreams that you had? Oh, yeah.

I can tell you out about that. So basically I started learning about lucid dream and I was like, I was so fascinated by it. I was like, I have to do it. I have to try it. And I got pretty good at it. So basically, well, for those that are not familiar with lucid dreaming, it's kind of like kind of training yourself. What, you can do it without training yourself.

It can happen just by. itself. A lot of people, most people have had the experience of like waking up in their dreams that you're realizing they're dreaming, right? So, but there's ways that you can train your brain to kind of find cues in a dream to find out that you're dreaming. So I did this like course on mind valley on lucid dreaming and I read a couple books to kind of like really learn how to do it properly. And so the first thing you kind of want to do is you want to keep a dream journal just because you could be having lucid dreams and just wake up and not realizing it. And it's kind of like a muscle. Like the more you like wake up and write down your dreams and remember it like consciously, the more you're going to remember it.

Like by the second week, I was remembering even like three dreams a night just from writing down every day. And then after that, what you want to do is like can I give? your brain a cue during the day. So I would do is I put an alarm and just going to like look at my hand when I see that alarm. I'm going to go like this or I would also do like this because in the dream it would kind of like go through. So I would do that like I don't know 10 times a day. And so that goes into your subconscious. So then you start doing it in your dream. So then you're going to be dreaming and then you're going to do that and then you're going to realize oh I'm dreaming because in your dreams, like your brain is not very good at like replicating your hand. So you're always going to see

your hand. It's going to be like an extra finger or it's going to like go through. So yeah, I started, I started doing that. And the first lucid dream that I had after training, I was so excited, like when I realized that I was dreaming. I dreamt that I was like in this theater. I was in this theater with like these people like next to me. And I was like, oh my God, I'm dreaming. And I did it with like, the reality check. These are called reality checks where you kind of do for remembering your dreaming. I did it without a reality check. I think just from reading about lucid dreaming, I just did it in my dream. And when I realized, I just started telling everyone and that's like the 101 of what not to do in a lucid dream

because you freak everyone out. So I told the person next to me, oh my God, this is a dream. And they were so offended. They were like, oh, what? And then this alarm. came on and everyone was like it's chaos and I woke up and so I was like okay I get a note down not to tell anyone in the dream that you're dreaming but I was just so excited and yeah I kept having more and you can have like kind of like like you can see patterns in your dreams like I remember this was like when I was in El Salvador and I had just I had come back from Europe and I kept dreaming that I was in Europe. I keep having this recurring dream. So then I wrote down in my notebook, like, whenever I dream I'm in Europe, like, be suspicious because I'm not. And so, um, so that's, that was another reality

check. So then when I, when I was in my dream in Europe, I was like, wait a minute, I shouldn't be in Europe. So is this a dream? And then you do a check and then you're like, yeah, this is a dream. Okay, great. I can go flying. And it's really interesting. Like, apart from having fun, you're having like, this window, this access to your subconscious. So there's like a lot of like healing that you can do with it. So nightmares are basically like a suppressed version of things we have inside. You know, it's like a suppressed part of yourself. So if you go ahead and have a nightmare, you can kind of come to terms with it.

Like as scary as it can be, you can like kind of hug that monster or whatever you see in your dream. And that's kind of like reintegrating this like dark side of your sense. So it can be like a really, really healing experience. Like you can use it for, for a lot of stuff. You can also, like I've read about people using it to, to heal, kind of, kind of reprogram their mind from, like, addictions to, like, cigarettes and stuff like that. And, like, training, you know, before having to do, like, a speech or, like, sports. There's been a lot of studies on, like, athletes using lucid. dreaming to train.

And yeah, it's just such an interesting world. I really like would suggest people that are interested in it to like read about it or do a chorus because it's just apart from fun, like the fun you can have in a dream where you can control everything. Like there's a lot of like healing that you can do and things that you can come to terms with. That sounds fascinating. How long did it take you from like reading the book? books and researching to actually being able to hugging to be able to do some work on your subconscious

uh like three weeks wow but you have to be like doing it every day right yeah but yeah it's not it's not hard like you you'd be surprised how easily your subconscious picks up on like on like these reality checks and cues and everything like i mentioned like the first one was just from reading the book that i did it by myself i had just thought about losing griming so much that it It happened. And then I was having like one or two lucid dreams a week just from doing it every day. And it's crazy because like it's this. It kind of feels like being in the matrix because everything, you touch things and they feel real.

Like I remember having this dream of being in like my childhood home. And I don't know why it wasn't even complete. You know, when there's like a render, 3D render and it's still blue. Like, half of it was like blue. I was like, this isn't finished. But okay, I'm going to go here. And then I went to this plant. And I, there was this fruit and I touched it.

And I was like, this is insane. I can feel how cold it is. Like, you can feel textures. You can feel like everything. Like, it's really interesting how the brain can like trick you. You can feel stuff in it. So it's really cool. And yeah, I've done a lot of different crazy things.

once I constructed this like massive like statue like work of art just like in like I don't know I'm not even like an artist like you know a plastic artist but it just constructed and it just felt amazing it's there's so much that you can do it's it's limitless like you can do whatever you want there it's it's really cool it's a really cool world to like dive into yeah that sounds amazing and another point that I picked up on is that Right in the beginning of that, that, in the beginning of the story, you would mention that it's amazing what your subconscious picks up on. It seems like you to learn about who you are and what you're doing in waking life while you're in the dream state, which usually seems the opposite way. You know, it's kind of fascinating to think about from that angle.

Yeah. I'm wondering, I'm wondering. So I'm a big fan of psychedelics. Yeah. And I really enjoy the, one of the things I really enjoy about them is the different way it allows me to see myself and the way I can interact in the world. And I'm wondering what's your take on psychedelics and have, like, do you think that like a lucid dream is sort of like an acid trip or maybe like a mushroom trip or have you thought about comparing those two? Yeah, that's a good question. I'm not that experience with like having psychedelic trips to really tell you.

but it seems from the logic of it that, well, when we dream, we are like, I know from what I've read, that you're kind of using some DMT that's naturally in your brain, right? And in the end, psychedelics, you're taking a big dose of DMT. So it would make sense that in the end, you're kind of exploring your subconscious mind somehow. But I don't know. Like, I think you would be able to maybe tell us more about it since you've had more, more experienced with that. What kind of like psychedelics,

like psilocybin or what, what are you talking about specifically? Mostly psilocybin. Like I've tried like lots of different kinds, but in the last few years, I've concentrated mostly on that. Okay.

Seems to me, I'm sorry. Yeah. No, no. And have you, an ayahuasca? Have you tried ayahuasca as well? I haven't. I grow ayahuasca. And like I, for me, like I got both plants And I figured out, like I've tried to make it multiple times and I've got the purge part right, but not so much the trip part right. Oh, okay.

So I figured myself like, you know what, once I figure out how to make it, then I'll be ready to take it. So I've been reading up and trying to learn different recipes on it. And I figure eventually I'll get the recipe right. And when I do get the recipe right, that's like the world telling me, like, okay, now you're ready to take it. Like you figured out how to make it, now you can take it. but I haven't I haven't tried it so far, but I have tried lots of psilocybin. LSD, some derivatives, some analogs of LSD, I have yet, I've not tried ketamine. So pretty much just those ones, really.

Yeah. I've never tried the two CBs or anything like that. But I do find it fascinating. I think that on high doses that it is like a lucid dream in a lot of ways. Not so much that you see unfinished walls or not so much that you get to see entire dreamscapes, but that you have more of open eyes and closed eye geometric shapes. You know, like there's been times where I've taken them, and it's been such a strong dose that I can have my eyes open and I see like a tetrahedragon

just like moving in front of me. I'm like, what is this thing right here? And it's accompanied by this, whoa, like this crazy sound, like a helicopter. And, you know, it's,

and then it, for me, it's like, you have these incredible insights like, oh, I guess mathematics was not invented. It was discovered, because here's this geometrical shape right here.

This is probably what people saw. This is probably how people began to figure out, like the Pythagorean theorem. And then you started thinking about the rights of elus or some of these, some of these sacred, sacred like secret culture whatever where they were just you know potentially cultivating mushrooms and then like seeing these mathematical equations and figuring things out

or and then you get to you get just once you begin to have an insight like that then you can go back and read the works of plato or you know some of these ancient greek text and learn about the different harmonics like wow it's so amazing that the planets are perfectly spaced apart that we can make music chords on based on those like well i think we're all connected, and we have the insight the same way you can lucid dream and create a relationship

with your subconscious. I think that psychedelics provide us a bridge where we can understand that we are, you don't really come into this world, you come out of it, and you're part of it. And all the solutions are around you

if you're willing to do the work and look for them. Is that too crazy? Am I? No, not at all. That makes too perfect sense. Yeah. I only tried,

when I was living in Holland, And, well, mushrooms are just legal there. So I did. But I was too young. I was 18. And I wasn't even thinking about that it was possible to, like, heal or, like, figure this transcendental, transcendental truth. You know, like, I was just, it was recreational with, like, some friends. It was, it was cool and everything.

But I, yeah, I was, mentally, I wasn't. where I am right now. But yeah, it's definitely interesting. I do like reading it, even though I haven't gotten much into doing it, like I do love reading about it. I just bought this book called the DMT, the Spirit Molecule,

which I'm looking forward to read. I haven't started it yet. I'm looking forward to it. And I just, there's this YouTube channel. There's just this person like narrating psychedelic trips. I love listening to it. There's this one that really

stands out. It was so crazy. It was this guy that he was saying how he did this like DMT trip with his friend. And so he did the trip and DMT is like very intense. It's like half an hour, but it's like all at once. Like, you know, it's really intense. I've never done it either, but I like hearing about it. And so this guy says that he went into this like world of DMT and he saw kind of like his life in these different like film strips you know like different like frames

and he got into this place where he kind of saw like the multiverse like he saw all these different versions of like his life of that of where where he could have gone and like all this different paths and everything and it just came to this point where he

forgot where which one was the one he came from and he kind of started freaking out because it was like what like how do I know where to go back there's just so many of them right and like this voice came up and told him like oh um no it's okay like you know try remember and he was okay you are uh john you're in new york you were doing the empty and then he was like but were you come from the world where you were doing it like at the studio or like at the living room and he was like oh at the studio and it's like okay we'll take you back there And then he came back, started coming back, and he was back at the studio. But then he realized when he woke up, he was like, I wasn't here. I was in the living room.

So he felt like he came to just like one kind of frame different from the life he had initially done when he did the DMT. It was such a crazy story. I can send you the link afterwards. But I love hearing all about it. And I find I also really like hearing about near death. experiences. I follow these channels that narrate near-death experiences. And I find there are so many similarities with what people experience in both in psychedelic trips and in near-death experiences. And I find that fascinating because it just, it makes me think that both can accessing a similar place or a

similar kind of state. I don't know. But yeah, absolutely. And I really feel like we are, like in a renaissance of psychedelics now with how much it's been taking more seriously now, like medically and how it can like really be used for healing and just get to the root of stuff of especially when it comes to a lot of mental illnesses instead of just masking symptoms, you know. And I think that's great. I think that it's great that that kind of taboo is kind of dissipating a little bit. And yeah, it's, it's awesome. I think it's great to talk about it so that more people can just start feeling more

comfortable about talking about it. Yeah, I agree 100%. The stories around it, while sometimes they can be, you know, frightening, I think sometimes sometimes the psychedelic stories that people tell, they frighten people that have never done psychedelics before because they don't understand like what. it's like. And if you hear a story like, oh, man, you know, I felt like I died and was reborn. People, that freaks people out sometimes. Yeah. But it's not uncommon to have the feeling of time slicing. And in some ways, I think the psychedelic experience, be it a, be it a near death

experience, because that's a psychedelic experience in itself. You know, it's a life changing experience where you're, you're almost rebuilding who you are. Like some of the, I think when you have a near-death experience or someone close to you dies, then part of you dies. But something builds back inside of you. Like that part of you died and it left a chasm. And now all of a sudden there's a hole in your heart or there's a hole somewhere. But sooner or later something fills that gap and it changes you. And I think the same thing happens on a psychedelic experience.

I've had similar experiences where, you know, I've gotten to see every decision I've made and where it would have taken me. And it was almost like I was seeing it from a third person perspective, but at the same time, feeling what it would be like. And it was like, you know, and it's so much to take in because it's like doing something for the first time. Like you don't really process it to the point where you thoroughly understand it, but you know what's happening. And I remember thinking to myself like, oh, my God, if that's the first girl I kissed, that's what my life would have been looked like. Or, oh, my gosh, if my son never died, then this is what it would have been like. like or if I would have done this one thing at work, then that would have happened.

But, you know, it's just like branching out in like this time dilated slicing motion where you can see it all. And it's just this, it leaves you with an understanding that the world in which we're functioning and operating in is but a slice of what is possible. And if you look at all the, if you look at a lot of different scriptures and a lot of different sci-fi. You can see how they kind of come together. And I really think that that in some ways, I think that psychedelics not only is having a renaissance right now, but if you look back in times, you can see where people have access psychedelics to move the world forward. And I think that's where we are. We're like in this sort of stagnant area where we have found the world of materialism is the predominant way in which we see the world. But we're breaking out of that,

the same way as Silkworm spins a web and gets caught in it, so too do we as a society spin this web and then we get caught in it. Now you can't move, but soon you break out of it. And I think psychedelics are a big part of that. And I do think it's good for healing. Let me ask you this. There's one issue that I kind of see with psychedelics, and I'm not a doctor, but it seems to me that in the world of pharmaceuticals and in the world of clinical trials,

where they're trying the new drugs and things, they always say this. Okay, if you have, if you're schizophrenic or if you have bipolar, if you have any sort of mental illness, then you cannot be in this study because, you know, you could freak out. You could be bad. But that seems like bullshit to me because those are the people that need it the most. And in a weird way, it seems like they're, that's how they're glossing over the clinical trials. Like, look, let's make sure we don't have any at-risk people in these trials. But well, then what are we doing? Like, these drugs probably should be for those people.

And it just seems kind of odd to me. Does that seem odd to you or what do you think? I think if I was, for example, if I was going to be taking care of someone that was doing this trial, I would be wary if they would be like, yeah, I could see why they do it. But I think yet I agree that they shouldn't be left out, but maybe like do like another test just with them or something. Yeah. but very controlled because, yeah, I think with schizophrenia, I could see why it could go kind of bad. I do like psychedelics can definitely help heal the world, but I do also think that they're not for

absolutely everyone. Right. I think we had a bit of a bit of a... Yeah, kind of photos up there for a second. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it's for a good part of the population could benefit from them. But I do feel like maybe it's not in some people's path to take them. Yeah, maybe it's just not, I don't know, seeing it from like a more, I don't know, kind of global kind of view, maybe some people are not, it's not meant to be in their life.

I don't know if that makes sense. But it would be interesting, yeah, I think it would be interesting to, yeah, do tests with people with serious illnesses, but I think they'd have to be monitored really closely and like just make sure that they're safe and that they're given the support after. I think more than just like the trip itself, it's kind of like in the integration after that requires a lot of support. So maybe that's why they're kind of left out in some of the trial. because they know that they have to really be there with someone because a lot of the effects could happen months after weeks after. So, yeah, I agree, but I also see why they do it.

Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. I just have like a little pet peeve there. I'm like, gosh, I think these people could benefit from them. They probably need them the most. Yeah, no, that's true. That's true. But I think just the brain is just so complex.

Yeah. There's just so much where we don't know about or like where it can go, where it can take you that I think it should be taken with a bit of caution definitely when, especially in these cases. But for most of the population, they've been proven to be pretty safe. Yeah. And I think that, you know, while there is sort of. a renaissance happening, I think it's important to say it's not a panacea, it's not going to fix everything. And there could be some nefarious use. Like if you look back to like in the 60s and stuff when you have like Charles Manson and Jones Town and, you know, there are some knuckleheads

out there that are smart enough to use psychedelic drugs to program people or at least use some sort of external inputs that they can put in people. And look, not everybody, being on a psychedelic experience is something that I normally do alone. You know, there are recreational ways to do it if you're going to go to a concert. You can totally have fun. I have nothing against that. But if you're going to do like a heavy dose and you're with somebody you don't trust, you know, now you're back into the problems of set and setting.

And if you are with somebody you don't trust, like there are some pretty crazy things that can happen, I think. So it's something to be cautious about. I know in the 60s, the CIA has. had had set up these crazy experiments where they would they would take these guys that were going to see like hookers and they would dose them up with like large amounts of LSD and then like like film mom and like it's so crazy right and so you know I think also um gosh I can't think of the guy's name is um Ted Kaczynski was the Unabomber and he was this guy that was in in the United States you know I think it was in the 80s that he was sending mail bombs to certain senators or whatever and he was part of um these experiment i think that i think they did some some experiments in the 60s and he was part of like these lsd experiments and so you know

there is some literature that says like hey this could be a huge problem for society if we just tune tune in and turn on all these people and they no longer want to participate in our in our thing and maybe there's something there what do you think that um So let me shift gears for a little bit here. Like, what do you think we could learn about sound by combining sound with psychedelics? I think, I don't know if, I think it would be something very personal. Like, I've read a lot about people, like, kind of like playing music during, like, psychedelic trips. and just kind of understanding and like experiencing that song differently.

Like a lot of, I've, in this kind of like channel where they narrate, um, psychedelic trips, a lot of them are like DMT and they're like seven, 10 minutes, right? So they usually play a song so that it, um, so you can kind of have, have some sense of time left because you kind of go into a place where there's no time. But hearing the song, it makes you think, okay, it's been like four or five minutes, you know, so you speak a long song or everything. And yeah, like a lot of people can narrate how they just experience the song in a completely different way. So I think it would be more like of a personal experience and relationship with sound and music

and really like understanding it differently. Like you're in this different, your brain is in a different state. So it's kind of it's catching up. It's processing this like sound information differently. So I think more than finding out something like global for everyone, apart from some things that we already know that we're kind of like vibrations, we are kind of sound in itself. I think it would be more like how you change your relationship to sound and to music.

I think that's what most people could take out of a psychedelic trip relating to sound. It's your relationship to it. and maybe being more mindful of what you hear, you know, and just what you consume in general. So, yeah, I think I think that that would be it. That's beautiful, Natalia, changing your relationship to sound. Like, you know, when I change my relationship to anybody in the world, it changes the way I feel about it. Most of the time it makes that relationship much more. rich and much more rewarding.

So that would be something that I think could benefit not only your personal relationship, but it may have profound effects on your life later in life. And I've read some stories about people that, you know, they, there's this thing called synesthesia where people that take psychedelic trips, sometimes they will, they will see sounds or they will, they will taste colors, you know, like they, almost like the inputs are kind of moved around there. And maybe that comes from, from, um,

sort of processing sounds in Broca's area. Maybe that comes from processing taste in, in different, in the visual cortex or something like that. But that might be an incredible way to create art. And there's also some experiments of people that are, I saw this one experiment where this gentleman was on LSD and he was drawing stuff. And then it showed him draw like a sketch at one hour in and then a sketch at two hours in.

hours in and then a sketch it four hours in. And at four hours in, it was like this sort of Picasso-esque, you know, looking thing. It was really beautiful. I was like, wow. Like, you know, maybe you can begin to see the world different through alter states of consciousness. Maybe that's what we need. But yeah, have you ever thought about setting up some experiments with sound and psychedelics?

I've never thought about it per se, but I think now that you mention it, it would be pretty interesting definitely on how like maybe how in this like trials that they're making something that's very controlled where you can you know get data from different patients you know to kind of compare it how maybe playing certain frequencies or praying certain certain music you know if you play one that's on like a major scale like a minor scale or if you're just playing like a binaural beat how that can affect kind of like your trip you know and what you can do in it i think that would be pretty interesting. I don't think that has been done before and it sounds like a pretty good idea. Yeah, I think you should be the first person to do it. Yeah, okay. I'm up for it. Yeah.

So I guess like if we just play out this, if we just play out this thought experiment a little bit, you'd have to have a control. Maybe if you had someone in a room and you played Beethoven, you can measure their, you can measure their brainwaves on an EKG or one of those machines, something like that. And then when they were, and then if they were tripping, then you could measure it again or how would we set it up? Like what like how would it look? I think I would, the way I would do it would be more like having like say to say a number like 10 people take psilocybin and do it without any kind of like musical or oral stimulation and then have 10 people do it with and with a certain type So with happy music, for example, or with like a tonal chords that would kind of evoke positive emotions.

And then kind of have another 10 that would have it with kind of like more sad music. And I just and then kind of like see from the reports afterwards how it affected their experience. I think that's that's how I would do it more than seeing what's actually going in the brain. it's kind of like what they experienced in the trip. Yeah. And see what kind of pattern can come out of that. I like that. There is, it seems to me from the people that I've spoken with,

there's all kinds of like playlists people have for like a four hour trip or an eight hour trip. And I bet if we started looking at some of those, you could begin to see the patterns. However, I don't know of any, almost all the clinical trials where they bring someone in for their set in the setting, a lot of the places that are providing psychedelic therapy to people are providing music. But I don't know any one of them that have an audio artist like yourself

that would, you know, I think that that would really add value to the test. And I think that that would bring more comfort to the people that are going through the therapy. And, you know, I would think that everyone from, pharmaceutical companies that are doing the testing to, you know, home, people at home that are helping people could use that.

I'm going to talk to some people to do clinical trials and tell me to talk to you. Absolutely. I would be so down to that. Like, that would be amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And it would be really interesting. Apart from an amazing experience for me, that would be like interesting, I think, for, like, to see what comes out of that. Because just to have like a, holistic approach to that kind of therapy of psychedelic therapy is to include all the senses that that makes a lot of sense and given how much sound can influence what we what we experience just normally just in day-to-day life like it's it's inevitably going to have an impact on the experience and if sound can certain frequencies or certain music can influence possibly a psychedelic therapy, then it's, it's an easy and a good tool to use.

Yeah, and it kind of reminds me of anchoring. You know how sometimes if you smell, you know, smell is like the closest sense tied to memory. But I've also had the same sort of response when sometimes you hear a song, you think of a time that you had with somebody. Yeah. So I'm wondering if you could, if the sound during a, like let's say that someone had a, big problem with anxiety. And they went and they took, they had psychedelic therapy and it helped them with their

anxiety. I'm wondering if, you know, if you were to implant a song or taught or anchor a sound. Sound, yeah. Yeah, you anchor that sound during the therapy. And then when people down the line in a month from now or six months from now, they begin to feel the anxiety, they can play back that sound and it would put them back in that state. I bet you there's something there. Absolutely.

that that makes complete sense absolutely and it ties back to what we we were speaking at the beginning with the lucid dreaming of how easily your subconscious can like when you have access to your subconscious how you can plant stuff in there you know like in one of these

books that are I don't know if it's the book or the chorus with this lucid dreaming expert called Charlie Morley he was saying how one of his students he was addicted to smoking and in a lucid dream what he did was like call up his brain. He was like, okay, I want to speak to my brain. And then this kind of like representation of the brain came up. And it was like

sassy and like it had a personality and everything. And he told him like, okay, I don't have much time. Whenever I want a cigarette, like just make me not think of it, make me think of something else. And the brain just went like, okay. And then he woke up and everything. And he was like two years a cigarette free. Like he would just, he says that he would go to the store and think, okay, I need cigarettes.

And then suddenly he'd be at home and be like, oh, I forgot to buy those cigarettes. Like his brain actually made him think of something else when he wanted like a cigarette or wanted to buy cigarettes. And so when you're in a psychedelic trip, you're also having this kind of like access to the subconscious. And it's a great opportunity to like program something like that.

And sound is definitely a good tool to use. Yeah. And be like, you know, listen, whenever you listen to this sound, to this sound, just remember that you're good. Remember that you're calm, that you're okay, that there's nothing going wrong. And something like that would be, yeah, definitely a good trial to make to see if that works. Yeah, definitely. You have a great idea there. Well, I got it from listening to you talk about lucid dreaming.

So it's just as much your ideas, it is mine. It's fat like this kind of conversation makes me so hopeful for the future. I think that we're I think we're only scratching the surface of what we're capable of, whether it's lucid dreaming or psychedelics or using the senses that we already have to solve major problems. It seems like in our society that we have farmed out our problems to like coping strategies. When I look at Western medicine, it seems that the idea, and don't get me wrong, there's great. I'm so stoked that we have doctors and pharmaceutical companies that can help us when we're ill. But it does seem like on some level that the strategy of Western medicine is to provide a coping

mechanism instead of a solution. It's like, I'm going to give you this pill. And then you can, even though you hate your job, this pill will allow you to wake up, feel pretty good about yourself and go do that thing that you hate. You know, whereas a psychedelic medicine or some of the Eastern traditions, they allow you to take something and be like, what the, what am I doing? This is horrible. I shouldn't do this. I'm going to stop doing this.

You know, I'm not going to take a pill that makes me. Do you notice that? Yeah, no, absolutely. I totally agree. I think the pharmaceutical companies, when it comes to like more physical illness, then they're great. You know, if you have an infection, you want to take, you know, antibiotics, you know, if it's gotten too bad.

If you have a cut, you know, you want to put something there, you know, that's great. But when it comes to mental health, yeah. it's definitely like a whole other story. I think we should be looking into other things that get to the root of you. And everyone is, it's like an individual person. Like it's an individual, you know, with your individual thoughts, your individual life journey. So if you have something that instead of like numbing you or just doing something

that's going to have the same effect on everyone, you see like a psychedelic trip is just so individual like not no one person has the same experience so it just gets to the root of you personally of who you really are and that's that's exactly i think what people with mental illness some or even if they don't have mental illness i think just in general i think you shouldn't be limited to like people with like anxiety or depression i think um anyone can benefit from it like you know you can just feel like okay with your life, just feel fine, but there's always room to expand and to know more and to just get to the essence of who you really are. And I think with mental health, the closer you get to truly connecting a person with their essence, with who they really are, the more likely they're to succeed in healing or like getting better or just expanding, you know, I think. And of course, an antidepressant, it's not going to do that. Yeah.

It's the brain chemistry and the different neurotransmitters that just coursing through our brain, like the whole idea of it, Natalia, is so fascinating to me. And the more that I think about, like my brain is racing on the topic of sound. And even though you and I are talking, we're using words, it's just kind of mouth noises, right? Like, we're just making noises with our mouths. I'm like you can decode that and understand it and know if it's a good sound or a bad sound. Yeah. And when you look at like the ayahuasca ceremonies, they usually sing the shaman will usually sing like

Ikaros and like these little songs that have been around for a while. In Tibetan, they have like the different bowls. And so when we think about, have you ever, like there's been times where I've heard someone sing and I start crying. I don't even know why. It's just like a beautiful sound. Yeah. I think that there's, I think that the idea of sound therapy has always been with us.

just that we have we have lost touch with it and i really admire and think it's beautiful what you said about someone aligning with their essence and healing themselves like it does seem like mental illness is just like we're probably all mentally ill in some way but it does like the people that are mentally ill are just trapped in this negative feedback loop that they can't get out of i think they're just very far away from realizing who they are i think i think they're in And some of us are closer, some of us are like that. And then someone with depression is just very far, very far, just very not connected to their essence. I think that's, and I think that's where psychedelics can help because I think it connects you to your essence because you really navigate who you are and what you want.

And definitely we're so connected to sound. Like I have like in my shower, I have like a Bluetooth, like a speaker because I like, I like. I know that my day is going to go differently if I just put this like songs that make me happy, you know? And so when I take a shower, I'm listening to like four or five songs. I have a playlist. And I know my day is just going to get better from there because I'm already like in a good mood. I'm in a good position, you know. And it's just so like ingrained in us.

Like I have a five-year-old daughter. And with her, you know, I, we really try gentle parenting, you know. but she knows when my tone has changed. I'm so sweet to her usually, but then when she gets naughty, I just, I don't even scream. I just change the tone of my voice.

And she is immediately like, oh, there's something wrong. I did something wrong. Like, because mommy has changed the tone of her voice. And she's like, don't speak to me like that.

I'm like, I'm not even yelling. I'm just being assertive. You need to do this. You need to do that. She's like, I want you to speak sweet to me. And that seems to be an obvious.

to like, you know, get her to behave. And it's just ingrained in us sound and how it affects, like, our feelings and how we process information. Yeah. Like nails on a chalkboard, right? Like, I would like, like, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, I think that is it fair to say that you have an interest in gaming? Like, you work at electronic arts, right? And like, what do? Can you talk about what you do there? No. No. No. Yeah.

Do you think it's possible that, um, that, you know, like the metaverse seems big right now. I wonder if it might be possible in the future for someone to simulate what a psychedelic trip is like. I think there's already something. I think I remember like reading a bit about that. I think there's already, okay, I don't know if I dream this, but I remember when you start Lucy dreaming a lot, you start like, thinking like did I did this happen or did I dream it like yeah but I I'm pretty sure I read something about some like trials of like playing a psychedelic experience to people and them having like a similar response to actually having a psychedelic trip with a substance yeah and I also read like two days

ago I was listening to one of these trip reports and there was one where this guy he was semi lucid in his dream and he ate a mushroom in his dream and he had like an experience like in his dream it's like he had like a like a psilocybin experience. It was really interesting of how like

in your brain you can like create that and definitely with the metaverse I think they're already trying that of like kind of recreating the experience but I don't know how that would work just because every experience is so unique and individual

by remember reading something about that. Yeah. I think they're going to try, but I think it would be like making a copy of a copy. You know, like it kind of like you put in a copy and then it comes out kind of shady a little bit. Yeah. This is just a copy.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I don't know how that would work. But remember people trying that already. Right. Yeah. And it seems like it. And in some ways it seems like that might be what the whole metaverse is is just this attempt to experience

reality that's not reality. And yeah, I think that there is, I think there's a lot of exploration to be done on the psychedelic frontier. But it can be scary. And like you said, it's not for everybody. But there's a lot we can learn there. And I think we've only begun to scratch the surface. I think that my, I have a niece that's getting ready to go to college and she wants to go

for sport medicine. And I'm trying to get her to, to write a letter. You should be incorporating psychedelics into sports medicine. Like we've already spoken a little bit about lucid dreaming and how people are using that to better their performance. But, you know, if you look at the way psilocybin has been used in the past, you know, by hundreds and gatherers, like a small amount. And even I was talking to this girl Abigail, who's doing some studies on LSD and she says that you see more, you know, which makes kind of sense. Like if your pupils become dilated, you're getting more light in. That's having some effect on your brain.

And I don't know if you've ever had the, had the sensation of sometimes if your eyes stay dilated for too long, like you get a big headache because I think the light's getting, you're getting too much light in there. But it is also allowing you to see more. And if you're taking in more information, you're going to have, at least in my opinion, you're going to have more understanding of your environment. In fact, I think I should write something on this. Like I think if your eyes stay dilated longer, you're seeing more around you. And another way to say that is that you have like, I think that's synonymous with intuition. You ever like have something like, like you know something's going to happen and then it does? I think you're seeing it happen or you're seeing triggers or you're seeing markers out of that other people aren't seeing.

It's not that you have some extra. It's not that you're being told by God what's going to happen, but you're picking up on biomarkers of some kind that other people can't see. And it would make sense that if you, if you, if your eye, look, it's all over the, it's all the literature like, hey, that person's eyes are wide open or that person sees everything. Yeah. It's, I don't know, I have to think more about it, but I think that there's something there. Does that do crazy to think of? What do you think?

No, I don't think it's crazy to think of at all. I agree that we've only touched the surface of, of what we know. I think in 100 years, we're going to look back 200 years and we're going to be like, wow, when you're so little back then. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It would be sometimes I think that the

the psychedelic therapy, the people are going through is a way that we're evolving. And it's helping us to incorporate all the senses. It's helping us to incorporate the ability to see ourselves and the other people around us. I think that makes for a better world. You know, you had said something earlier about, people that maybe have a mental illness,

they seem far away. I thought that was such an astute thing to say. Do you know people in your life that have had problems with depression? Like, how did you get to that insight? That seems like a very deep insight. I think we all know someone or have someone close to that. But I think, I don't know, it's just going to make sense to me. I don't know if I, like, came to a conclusion.

I don't know when I came to that conclusion, what it just kind of seems logical to me of, I guess from reading books about, about what makes you feel whole or happy or content with your life, they all kind of just come to the conclusion that the closer you are to your essence, the more fulfilled you will feel. And that makes sense to me. I think I've always been a person that has a problem,

I'm not like doing things that I don't want to do. Like it's something that really bothers me. Like I've always been like, if I don't want to do something, then it's just, I can't. Like, you know, so it's just something that makes sense to me that the closer you are to who you are as an individual, the better you're going to feel. Like the more, the better your life is going to be. So yeah, I can't tell you something specific of. how I came to that, but I think just from like reading about it, it makes a lot of sense to me. I don't know if it does to other people, but yeah.

Yeah, I think you're really going to enjoy that book, DMT to Spirit Molecule. He gets in, he gets really into, especially if you like trip reports, because the middle of that book is all about the reports that people have had. And like, it's so fascinating to read the different ideas and the similar. similarities and the the I I was actually really lucky I got to enter I interviewed Dr. Rick Strassman about that book and some other books and he he amazing yeah and he gets into he's got a couple other books out and in one thing we spoke about that we haven't covered on our on our talk yet is the different beings people come in contact with and some people get a little freaked out because they're like what do you mean you're you're in court you're

talking to these other beings that come in and in and in. and hang out with you. Yeah. And, you know, he goes in depth and he starts breaking it down on a biblical level. The Hebrew Torah, he talks about the different prophets in there. And I had asked him, you know, why is it that you are equating these beings and these psychedelic trips towards the prophets in the Torah? And he goes, you know, that's a great question.

He goes, I think that when you're in a psychedelic trip, if you meet a being in there, You should know who that being is because then you can have a conversation with that being that being can help you with. And it just, it's a fact, like you said, we're just scratching the surface of it, Natalia. And it blows my mind. So. Yeah, absolutely. You know, as we're getting close to landing the plane here, Natalia, I always ask people, where can they find you? What do you have coming up and what are you most excited about?

Hmm. Okay. Well, they can find me, I guess, like, on Instagram. I'm not, like, that, you know, active on YouTube or anything like that, like a channel. But, yeah, I'd be happy to accept people on Instagram if they want to connect. And coming up, I don't know, like, I've, I want to continue making, like, short films. That's definitely something I want to continue doing. And I'm very interesting in doing, like, films that

can I like when people see it they find kind of some healing I don't know like I did this short film for the quarantine for the 2020 which is the one I want the whiff for and that one we told we told the story of how the pandemic which was very scary at the time this was five months in the pandemic was seen by a child so my daughter. So I just kind of like imagine how she would see it so innocent and really what it comes down to was that she saw it like as a great time because she got to spend more time with us and play with us. And I just try to. And a lot of people told me like that they cried so much when they

saw it and that they just felt like this like they they were able to take out a lot of that the fear and negative feelings that they were feeling during the pandemic. So I would love to continue doing that through film and like doing movies and short films and just about um this kind of topics um the people can see and kind of relate to and just kind of have this this kind of like healing with it i would love to continue doing that there's been so many changes in my life this past year you know i moved to a whole new country you know starting a new job and uh doing all this that i haven't had much to really get in the production side of stuff. But I have a couple of scripts that I've written about that.

So that's kind of where I want to head from here. That sounds like. Are you, are you okay on time? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk more about the films that you have done right there. So this, that film was called ghosts. Was that the name of that?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so maybe we could, maybe we could walk people through like what made you decide to make that film when you could tell us a little bit more about it sure um what really made us decide is that there was a like a local um competition to use your phones because there i don't know how how the quarantine was in different places but in lsavlo it was it was pretty strict you couldn't leave your house except for like two days a week uh according to your ID um and you could only go to the

supermarket or pharmacy you know so we had nothing to make that film. We filmed it with like a phone and whatever we had in the house, which was my daughter and whatever else was in the house. But that gave us an opportunity to really be creative and really focus on the script and on what was being said and the sentiment of the film. And nowadays, you can do nice stuff with a phone. Like we competed later in other festivals with people that had use cameras for their films and we were still able to win. So

there's so much you can do now with an iPhone seriously. So that's kind of what got us into it. We were like oh yeah, that'd be fun to make something like that. And when we uploaded like the response was pretty big

in El Salvador. Like we were in the newspapers, they were sharing it like, oh, they made this film and and yeah, it was great, so we decided to enter other festivals. And so we ended up winning also the first place on the Cineophone Film Festival in Spain. And just other festivals in general. And yeah, that's kind of what brought us to it. Just seeing that was like, oh, yeah, let's do that.

It wasn't like something we had planned or anything. And we didn't think it would have that response either. But I think going back to where we were talking, I just, like, instead of doing a film that I thought people would like, I just did something that was very true to what I was feeling at the time. I just, like, sat down and I wrote, just trying to remember how I felt when I was little and there were things that I didn't understand going on, like difficult things that for the adults, but how I saw it differently, you know? In El Salvador, we had like two big earthquakes when I was little and all of this.

just trying to connect to that and trying to connect to my daughter and everything. Just making it very personal, very true to yourself. And just when you do stuff from that space, just people connect to it. Like, so, yeah, my advice for people trying to do films, just don't try and make a film thinking of will people like this or not. Just do something true to what you're feeling or where you're thinking, make it very personal. And people are going to connect to it. Like I was seeing this interview with Quentin Tarantino, and when they asked him, like, what advice would you give?

He was also saying, like, just make it very personal. Like, you wouldn't think so. But Pulp Fiction is a personal story. I just, like, transformed that into this other thing. But in its essence, it's very personal. And that's how people connect to, like, art that you do. Yeah, that is a, that's great advice. And I think everybody should check out that film.

I like what you said about, I like everything that you said about. about that particular film, but one part that really caught my attention was that you want to make films that heal people. Yeah. What does that mean? I think it's just that when people see it, there's just something about the film that connected to you

that you just feel better afterwards. I don't know how to put it in words. I recently watched this one, Captain Fantastic, with Vigo Martinson. I don't know if you've seen it. Oh man, you should see it. It came out in like six years ago, and I only just saw it.

But just at the end, you know, you just, I don't know how to describe the feeling that you have at the end of watching a movie that you've connected with in some level. You just, like, feel better. You just, you know, that's kind of what I would like to do. Yeah, it seems like, you know,

I know some, it seems to me like a lot of the big blockbuster films, they have like just tragedy ingrained in them. And sometimes I leave feeling worse or I'm feeling gross about my life or about people. You know, it's like, why don't why why somebody make that? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Oh, I hate watching like horror films or like, yeah. Yeah, no, I hate it.

But I think there's like a lot of cinema that is that it's done from that space. even like you know like commercial cinema i think it just kind of depends on the film i think there's every there's so much like in the world there's just so much of everything yeah but definitely if uh if i was to continue making movies of films i would want them to have some that kind of like emotion and connection to people yeah it you know in hawaii one thing i really love about living here is that there's no billboards so if you're just driving down the street. Like there's nothing that's,

that is competing for your attention constantly. It's like you have time to think without being bombarded by messages that want you to buy something that are telling you don't look right or that you don't have enough. And when I go back to California sometimes, like I realize like, God, I just feel like all kind of anxiety or stuff.

And I realize like, oh, there's something trying to grab. my attention every second over here. And it seems the way in which, at least in, at least where when I go back to the mainland, it seems that like the only way things can get your attention is to be a little bit more like pornographic in nature. Not that it's actual pornographic, but it's just, it's obtuse and it's trying to grab your

attention. And so, you know, I think that that is one way that's, society has gone wrong, especially in film and an art, is that they're trying to grab your attention and make you do something without you knowing at it. So they have to be more and more abrasive. But when you see good films like that, you realize how powerful of a medium it is and what it can do. Like it can have the opposite effect. We can be surrounded by beautiful billboards that have like paintings of families. And so yeah, I really think that that is something that that I would love to see you do more of

and I wish more people would do more of. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's where we're heading, hopefully. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think so.

Well, Natalia, do you have anything else? Do you have anything else you want to cover before we go? No, I think we've covered a lot. Yeah. And it's been great talking to you. Yeah. This is such a great channel. And I'm going to continue watching whatever you put up.

Definitely. Me too. And I hope everyone, I'll link to, is there a place where people can go to watch your film? Yeah, yeah. I'll send you the link. Okay. And then I'll put it in the show notes there. And then sometimes I'll do some panels or whatever, but we should bring on some other people and talk about what a clinical trial would look like with someone that actually builds them and someone that does sound.

And maybe we could form some kind of connection there because I think you'd be great at it. And that can be something that helps the community. Definitely. I am so up for it. You just let me know and I'll be there. And I'll read more about that as well. Yeah. Find more stuff of, you know, clinical trials that are already happening and just really be on it.

Yeah. It would definitely be a cool, cool thing to do. That'll be super cool. So that's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much for hanging out with both of us. Check out Natalia's film. Connect with her on Instagram and, um, I think we're all thankful that we got cool people out there creating beautiful things that make the world a little bit better.

Awesome. That's what we got. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much. Aloha. Bye.