TrueLife - Nikki Lawley - Yes We Cannabis!

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/While working as a pediatric nurse in October 2016, I suffered both a traumatic brain (TBI) and whiplash injury to my neck. Due to this, I have been unable to work as a nurse ever since. My injury also comes with some debilitating symptoms, which include cognitive issues, chronic headaches, and severe neck pain. Cannabis helps alleviate my pain, bringing it from a 7/10 daily pain and down to a more tolerable 2 and 3. Other symptoms of my injury include impacted balance/coordination, visual impairment, and depression/anxiety.I live in Buffalo, NY and I actually travel to Canada every few weeks in order to access legal Canadian cannabis and medicate; it is my medical hiatus if you will. As I have a Canadian prescription for cannabis, I travel to Ontario where I have an address. While I do have a prescription in the state of NY and CA, the quality of Canadian cannabis is unmatched, especially the strains available to me through my Licensed producer.It aids with all my symptoms above and has truly given me a quality of life back. While I have been prescribed numerous,pharmaceutical drugs to treat my injury, most have had severely negative and damaging effects on me physically and emotionally, while cannabis helped me come of off these horrible medications.I had been a recreational consumer prior to my injury, but it is only since beginning to learn about cannabinoids and terpenes have I really been able to maximize and harness the benefits of my cannabis intake.https://www.nikkiandtheplant.org/http://linkedin.com/in/nikki-lawley One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scar's my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry Born from the blaze The poem is Angels with Rifles The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Kodak Serafini Check out the entire song at the end of the cast Ladies and gentlemen,

Welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful morning. Hope the sun is shining The birds is singing the wind is at your back. It is an honor to introduce to you today a remarkable individual who embodies resilience, advocacy, and a passionate commitment to transforming lives to the power of medical cannabis. I would like everyone who may not know to meet Nikki Lolley, a patient advocate speaker and the visionary founder of Nikki and the plant.

Nikki's journey is one of profound transformation. In October 2016, at the age of 46, her life took an unexpected turn, catapulting her from the role of dedicated pediatric nurse into the realm of a patient grappling with unimaginable challenges. What followed was a turbulent odyssey to the traditional medical system, where Nikki saw over 50 doctors and endured a daunting array of medications, each with its own debilitating side effects. However, Nikki's story takes a remarkable twist. Just four months after her life-changing injuries, she discovered the healing potential of plant medicine, specifically cannabis. This discovery remarked the beginning of her mission to not only heal herself, but to become a beacon of hope

and change for countless others facing similar struggles. Today, Nikki and the plant stands as a pillar of medical cannabis advocacy, championing the vital importance of sharing patient stories. Nikki's dedication has earned her a distinguished place on the patient advisory board for organizations such as New York State Americans for Safe Access and Cannabis BPO. She has become a leading voice in the community, chronicling her evolution from a health care provider to a patient and ultimately to a tireless advocate. I think his goal is nothing short of global awareness for invisible illness and disabilities. And she has been a featured guest on multiple podcasts and shows, including Let's Be Blunt with Montel Williams, her organic following and her ability to change

hearts, minds, and lives on a daily basis through awareness. And her own story have made her an educator and an ambassador for cannabis. Today we have the privilege of delving into Nikki's journey, her advocacy, and her vision for the future of cannabis medicine. Please join me in welcoming Nikki Lally to this enlightening conversation. Aloha, Nikki. Good morning. Good morning.

How are you? I am doing fantastic, thank you very much. And I'm so excited to speak to you. Did I leave anything out in that background? Is there something else you can color in there? You like often some amazing adjectives. like it. Well, I aim to please. You know, I think that we have a interesting relationship with language, and especially when we find ourselves partnering up with plant medicine, it seems to

kind of find ways to help you not only communicate, but express yourself. And I think the language is a beautiful part of it. Absolutely. Well, you did very well. Thank you so much for having me and you summed it up quite well. I literally found the plant by accident. It saved my life. And now I'm just doing everything I can to help remove the stigma and educate people who were uneducated like I was. And people don't know what they don't know. So we have a responsibility to kind of break things down in a way that they can understand. And if, you know, if you had told me your child was taking cannabis for seizures, or something like that when I was a pediatric nurse,

I would have called child protective services on you and you would have had to go through that daunting investigation of potentially having your child removed. That was like my license on the line and I had never learned about cannabis as medicine. So for me to be in the position I am now and take a total 180 position on it is really important. And when you're wrong, you're wrong.

And when I've been educated, I've been educated. So that's what I'm trying to do to help others. It's wonderful. It kind of brings up the first thought that I had. And that's maybe you can delve into the moment when you realize that cannabis, often stigmatized today, held the potential to heal not just your body, but also your perception of traditional medicine and life itself. So the moment wasn't really awe-inspiring.

It wasn't like I took a puff of cancer. cannabis and all of a sudden I'm like this new person. I actually discovered it in Las Vegas as I was about to take my life. I was on a vacation with my husband and I was on all these pharmaceuticals. I hadn't left the hotel room in four days and I had pulled that table over to the edge of the balcony and was looking down. And I was only seven stories up. So I'm injured, not stupid. So the concept of actually killing myself was obviously not an option at seven floors. It just didn't seem likely. And then the pool was like three stories down. So that really put a damper in my plan. But what happened at that moment was a billboard came driving by saying,

get your medical marijuana card in Nevada today. When that happened, I laughed at that billboard because I'm part of the war on drugs. I'm part of the Nancy Reagan DARE graduate with honors. So I like laughed at it. Like you have a brain injury, Nikki. Do you really think that's wise? Like go fry your brain on drugs? My husband had gone for a walk and he came back and he saw me outside on the balcony.

He's like, what are you doing? And I said, oh, just checking out the pool area. And he really didn't know how dark of a place I was in at that moment. And I said, we can go get my weed card in Nevada. You know, let's try that. Let's fry our brain on drugs more. And he's like, let's do it. And if you knew my husband, he's literally like the last American boy scout.

So he does nothing wrong. He does no alternative substances. he doesn't even take pharmaceuticals. And so it was a big thing for me to leave that room, go worry about getting to a card certification place, and going to that first dispensary. I mean, I'll buy itself. That could take us through a whole hour.

But I had to come back home to Buffalo, New York, where I live. And I assumed, since I got this cannabis card in Nevada, it would surely be the same process in New York. And it totally wasn't. When I tried cannabis in Nevada, I had tried so many edibles. And no one taught me like, you know, only do go low and go slow.

So I just ate packages. They tasted good. So I just literally was stuff in my face with, you know, I bought so many different products at the dispensary, not having any idea what was going to work, how it worked, or anything. So I ate, I want to say, four or five packets of them.

And I slept the first time since my injury for about 18 hours. And my husband didn't wake me up because he knew, you know, I mean, I'm normally up pacing, crying, in the corner crying. You know, I mean, he just let me sleep. But when I got up, I was like kind of hung over. I'm not going to lie. It was like, whoa. What? I just got.

I'm so. tired. And he's like, well, we're going home later today. You got to smoke the rest of that stuff the kid gave you at the dispensary. And I'm like, dude, I can't smoke right now. I mean, like, I just can't even hardly walk. But I wasn't in the same place I was when I was about to take my life the day before. So I ended up smoking a joint and being able to eat breakfast voluntarily for the first time in that trip. I ended up being able to walk through the casino for the first time in that trip. And I can honestly say it got me off the ledge. I found a glimmer of hope. I came home to New York, discovered, oh, chronic pain, anxiety depression, any of the things that

I was using cannabis for were not on our approved list of conditions in New York State. So then it became perfect. Now I find something that sort of worked and now I can't access it. So with that, long story short, I started sharing with my physicians because I was hurt at work, I had gone to all these different workers' compensation doctors. Workers' compensation doctors, you are a number. You are not there to have discussions. You are not there to talk about different treatment plans, they write it down, they tell you what to do, you do it, you follow the rules, or you're considered non-compliant. So I go in to my doctor and I'm like, hey, I went on vacation and I tried this weed and it really helps. And he's like, oh, no, no, no, no, you're a drug seeker. Now we have

to be careful. We can't prescribe you opiates anymore because now you've engaged in a lawful activity. And I said, but we have a medical program in New York. Like, I got medical cannabis in Nevada. And they're like, you know, nope, you smoked it. That's recreational. You use THC. That has no medicinal value. You now are a drug seeker.

So all the pain medications and all the medications we've been giving you, we have to thoroughly evaluate now because we can't have you seeking drugs. And I'm like, but I'm really trying to get off the drugs. Like, this seemed to help me. But then I lost hope again. and got real depressed again. And, you know, it just wasn't worth arguing. And after, like, the fourth doctor I went to and told the cannabis story, then I became like,

whoa, this is not working out. And one thing you have to realize, when you're a nurse, doctors are like your colleagues. You're no long, there's not that huge class differential. Like, doctor patient is a lot different than doctor nurse. So having an invisible disability, such as a brain injury, I don't have a big cast on my head. I don't have like any evidence of there being a deficit. So these doctors that were once my respected colleagues are treating me like so different. Flipping sides from being the health care provider to being the nurse to being the patient is a horrible, horrible, horrible transition.

I was gaslit by so many. I was told there's nothing wrong with me. Your scans are fine. And I again became like super hopeless. I was pretty much at the end of my rope about 14 months in. And my doctor called my husband, said, are you aware of your wife's suicidal? You know, I mean, I was in a really, really dark place,

spent thousands and thousands of dollars seeking outside consults of workers' compensation. And I had friends in Canada. And they said, we've got medical pot here. Why don't you come over here and check that? And I mean, at this point, I was on so many drugs and I was feeling so crappy anyway. I was like, okay, I'll try it. So there began my journey as a medical cannabis refugee in Canada. For those of you who aren't aware, Buffalo, New York is very close to the Canadian border. So Ontario, Niagara Falls, Ontario is about 15 minutes from me. Toronto is about an

hour and a half. So for me, it was just like going to another state. It wasn't like going to another country. That's similar for those in Southern California who can go to Mexico in an afternoon and go to dinner. I mean, same thing goes for me in Canada. So when I started trying cannabis, so my defining moment, for the long answer to your question, my defining moment was when I was in Canada about three weeks into my journey of going every other weekend to Canada. And I, Canada has such a great system. They actually mail your cannabis right to your house. You've got a, you know, it's just a whole great thing.

So my friends got cannabis, and I'll never forget. When I had my brain injury, I couldn't count anymore. I couldn't word find anymore. And I wanted to play Scrabble. I was using cannabis from Canada. It was called cheese. It was the original cheese. It was like a hybrid cannabis.

and it had a pretty low THC, but his terpen profile was really rich in what I've now learned is my medicine. And what's interesting is I called my husband down in Buffalo, and he's like, we're talking, and he's like, what's wrong with you? I said, what do you mean what's wrong with me? I'm like, I'm plain scrabble, you know?

It's kind of cool. He's like, you're plain scrabble? And I'm like, yeah, you're right. He's like, you've got normal, Nikki. Like, I haven't heard this Nikki in like over a year. Who am I talking to right now? And I was like, you know, you're right. It must be this pot.

So my aha moment kind of came three visits into my trips to Canada, about 18 months after my injury, when I'm like, there's something to, this, you know, because then I started experimenting with different strains and different cultivars. And what a difference, different strains had on my body. It was like sometimes, I mean, there was one, this royal purple cush. I'll never forget. I was literally like kind of drooling on myself. It was not an attractive way of handling life. I mean, I couldn't get up. I was literally like, I went from being a chatterbox to like,

And like, I knew that wasn't my friend. But again, everyone has a unique endocannabinoid system. So once you start using cannabis, which for me, it was a whole new thing. I mean, had I smoked cannabis before my injury? Absolutely. But on a very limited basis, I never, like, bought it. It was just something that, like, people had. And then I would, you know, use it.

And I mean, I can honestly say. I liked the effects better than alcohol, but I hated the smoking part. And so when this happened and I saw the profound difference it had on my life, I just didn't want to leave Canada. I literally was like sad every time I came home, but going to Canada every other week kept me going. And so it was really amazing the way the plant helped me. It's such a fascinating story. And do you think that going, Going through that despair and like searching, you know, and what affected that play on you? On some level, sometimes it seems to me like those difficult times are what lead us to find the answer.

Like you're searching for so much. Like, I can't even go on with this. You know what? How did that play a role in shaping who you are? Like sometimes that despair can really shape us, you know? It can. And I was a shell of the human. I was before my injury.

And so the despair that I was feeling and the hopelessness and the whole like, I'm a burden to society. I'm a burden to my family. I'm a burden. My kids, like how am I even a role model with my kids anymore? You know, all I want to do is sleep. All I want to do is cry. You know, and I didn't want to cry. It was never a prior.

But my frontal lobe was messed up. I got hurt because a child didn't. want a vaccine. He hit me in the head so hard, but I ricocheted off a wall and back into his head. So I had sort of a double, not sort of, I had a double impact injury. So I bounced into a wall and a head twice. And then I, like my vision changed, my ability to walk changed. My coordination changed. I could no longer count or do basic math. I could no longer recognize quarters, dimes, nickel, and pennies. There were so many challenges.

And so it was literally like, then a doctor says, yeah, you took our neuropsych test, but you failed it too bad. Like, there's no way you're that damage. You're really just malingering. I said, what? Malingering.

I didn't even know what that meant. I don't think I've ever heard that word. Malingering means they're faking it. And I'm really, I wish I was faking. this. I would do anything to be faking this. I just want to get better. And for me to fake a neuropsych test, when I'm trying to understand what parts of my brain are affected so that I can fix them, so that I can go back to nursing like I once had, was my only goal. So when you hear from a doctor, that respected colleague that once was your equal, you now are like, well, maybe it is all in my head.

maybe they're right. Maybe this isn't as bad as I'm making it out to be. What is wrong with me? Why would I want this? And so the despair was a huge factor. And cannabis, when I found my improvement of my quality of life in Canada and then coming home and the horribleness I felt, it wasn't that I was addicted to cannabis. It was that I could see things differently. My thought process was different. And that's one thing people don't understand. It's not a one-size-fits-all for cannabis. And what works for me might not work for you. But at the end of the day, that's the beauty of the medicine.

There's so many different cultivars. There's so many different strains. There's so many ways you can consume. You don't have to just smoke a joint. And when I learned that, and then I started using cannabis with intention, meaning I started using cannabis like medicine, meaning, okay, I have cognitive function issues, I have chronic pain issues of my head and neck, and I have anxiety and depression.

So which strain helps me utilize, have the better quality of life? Okay, so if my depression was at a five and I smoked a certain strain and it got down to a three, that was success. but if I had that depression still going on and anxiety and maybe it went up to an eight, you know, maybe it was the wrong string. So that happened a lot. And so I learned the importance of using cannabis with intention, defining what you're really using it for, what symptom relief and what is bothering you the most to find the best solution.

And so once I started understanding the mechanics and understanding we have turpines in there And for me, that's how I shop for my cannabis is based on specific turpine blends because I've learned what works for those symptoms that I just shared better than anything. And I was able to get off the 16 drugs that I was taking every single day to now I take, you know, the statin and the thyroid medicine still. But I'm taking an antidepressant still, but compared to what I was on, what I am now, is dramatically different. but your mindset has to adjust. You have to be willing to learn. And it was a journey to figure out what worked and why. And then once I started understanding it, I just couldn't, like, believe it.

Like, I started telling all the doctors, and they didn't no longer shut me down the way they had, but they still weren't fans. And, I mean, I couldn't wait to settle my workers' comp case because then I didn't have to justify what I'm doing to anyone. Yeah. You know, it's a beautiful story. I love, I love hearing the way in which people find ways to overcome and think different and see a different perspective and listen to those stories. I'm curious if when you, when we talk about terpenes and their profile and an individual's cannabinoid system, is there a way people can measure that relationship? It sounds like you have found a way to do it, but is there a way for someone who may not be as familiar with you to do it or are something? guidelines or do you have any advice there so how i did it and in canada it was a different system so canada had an app called strain print and this app allowed had all the back end information of the then medical providers so their blue dream from cana farms and the blue dream from whoever else had different turpine profiles so it's not about the strain name as much as it is the test report or the certificate of analysis also known as a COA.

So I actually have a cheat sheet that I created with the help of this great educator of it's called The Amazing Flower. And what it is, it's a pocket guide to perfines. And it literally gives you the boiling points. It gives you the benefits. it gives you the smell, and it tells what it's good for. So if you go on my website, nikiandtheplant.org, and check out the resources page. You can too check out this great terpen guide that really helped me narrowed in what works and why. But the journaling of the experience was by far my starting point.

And having that back end information when you consume the strain made all the difference because then you could see after, say, five different. cultivars that you used, what was the common denominator that aided with your anxiety, what aided with your pain, what aided with your brain fog or cognitive function? So it was a system, but it was like you had to be willing to really dive into it and understand it. One of the things I did and when I do a lot of teaching is I bring isolated turpenes for people to smell. That can really, one thing I've also learned is your nose nose. So like when you smell a certain strain or you know chemovar and you're like, ooh, that smells good, most likely that's going to work okay for you. When you go, oh, and then you

don't really like the smell, it's probably not your cultivar. So there's a lot of hands on and there's really no one size fits all or one way to do it. I've taken about nine of those different genealogy tests that use your gene makeup and tried to it's a great science it's a great principle but at the end of the day I did not find it helpful because all nine had different results all nine had different recommendations if you have one variation of the OPOE gene which is your Alzheimer's predisposition it's going to tell you never to use THC Well, I need THC. So to me, it's playing so on the safe side.

It's not really giving you a true picture. And again, it's run by AI. So, you know, it's different than you're dealing with actual people. So that's really not a one-size-fits-all. So just being willing to try an experiment. And if you don't have access to the Canadian app strain print, that doesn't mean you can't journal what you're seeing. And it's more than THC percent.

It's more than CBD percent. It's really what are the other minor cannabinoids and turpenes that are in that product. Yeah, it's really well said. Sometimes I think, too, when you, different strains of cannabis, they make you feel different. But beyond that, they make you think different. And sometimes having these different types of medicine, it's those thought process. Like sometimes you'll come up against thoughts like, I do not want to think about that, right now. Well, too bad. You're going to think about it.

You know, and like, maybe there's some healing in that. Like, maybe just forcing yourself to face these things that you never wanted to face. Maybe there's healing in that and trying these different strains, experimenting with these different strains, is experimenting with different thoughts would lead to different perspectives

which could lead to different outcomes. It's a fascinating relationship, right? Totally. Totally. And you're right. It does. Certain products definitely take down a memory lane that I'm not really wanting to go down sometimes. But at the end of the day, it usually is a problem solving situation. And again, it's all how you think about it. It's all how you attack the problem.

You know, cannabis isn't a cure-all, but you have to like literally work your mind around it and realize this is a trial and error process. And, you know, I've spent thousands of dollars and use thousands of different cultivars and different strains and different products all over the country and Canada, just because there's so many options. And then when you dial in on that right strain, one of the problems is it's usually a craft grower that I find. Yeah. What that means is they only grow 30 plants or 50 plants of that strain. So when that strain's gone, it's gone. And so that's one of the frustrating parts of cannabis medicine. It's not like your Xanax that whether you're in Hawaii or whether you're in New York or whether you're in Canada, it's still the same stuff.

It depends on how it's grown, where it's grown, sun, artificial light, soil, hydroponics. There are so many things that go into each plant and each garden, if you will, that you have to understand that, there's variance. So like we have multi-state operators. In other words, someone who sells in Nevada might sell in New York, might sell a Massachusetts. Even though they're a multi-state operator, they're growing in the state that they're selling it in. So just because Green Thumb Industries dog walkers sit worked great for me in Nevada doesn't mean in Massachusetts, that same Green Thumb Industries, Dog Walker, Sitt is going to work for me the same way because it's different strains or genetics or how it's grown and things like that. And people don't talk about that a lot.

I mean, similar, yes, probably, but often not the same experience. Yeah, that's really well said. And I think it speaks volumes of our relationship with different plant medicines. For so long, we relied on the, you know, the, the story or the ideas or the folklore behind the name. This is this name, you know, but now we're actually have, oh, let me, let me show you the back and the turpene profile right here. Let's, like, let's look at all of these things right here. I think it speaks volumes of our relationship with it and beginning to treat it more like the medicine than it is, right? Right. For sure, for sure. It's all about turps and I can't say that loud enough. But terps are very volatile. So if you're just burning a joint

versus low temp vaping, it's a big difference of what turpines you're going to experience. So for me, I love limine and pining. But at the end of the day, if I'm lighting that up in a joint, I'm not really experiencing very much limine and pining. I'm experiencing more of those turpines that actually burn at a higher boiling point. So like BetaCare falling, for instance, always burns hot. So you'll get that experience if you're using a joint, you don't have to vape it. But if you're not looking for the beta care falling and you really want that limineine and pining, you have to do so at a lower temperature.

So like the dry herb vaporizers are more your friend. It's interesting to me. Sometimes I wonder, as your relationship with SSRIs, it seems to me that SSRIs are a way, or at least in my experience, they have been something that I had used in the past in order to get me through a day. And what I mean by that is I can take that and I'll feel good enough to go to work. But it's not going to solve any problems for me. It's not going to help me think things through. but it's more of like a patch, whereas I find different plant medicines, be cannabis or psychedelics, they help me untangle that gorgian knot of why am I doing this?

And sometimes they help me confront that problem. Have you found that to be similar in the way you've used both? So I don't use psychedelics, not because I don't want to, because they have great healing powers, but I'm allergic to all fungi. I haven't been able to dive down that, but I really want to try DMT. I'm not going to lie. But plant medicine definitely is different than pharmaceutical medicine. It's good and it's bad because there's, you know, again, that variation of what you're expecting the experience to be is not always the same.

So SSRI is definitely just kind of mute the depression. They don't take away the depression. They just kind of make it a little quiet so that maybe you're not sobbing all. day, but it's still there. That feeling and that hopelessness is still there. But with cannabis, I found, wow, I'm giggling. Like, euphoria should not be determined as a bad side effect. And that's, like, you know, you hear all these drug ads on TV and you hear, you know, could cause death, could cause anal seepage, could cause, you know, bloating, could cause this, that, the other thing. with cannabis, euphoria, being hungry, happy, and sleepy.

Are those really bad side effects? I don't think so. So I'd much rather have that listed on my side effects than the other. Yeah. It would be funny to have a list of side effects. They need to show like the seven dwarfs. It's hilarious. Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. That would be good. It's actually a good marketing campaign. Somewhere out there, get on it. You know, it's reflecting on the power of patient narratives, can you elaborate on how storytelling, especially in the context of cannabis is medicine,

can serve as a vehicle for transcending societal taboos and fostering understanding? I'm living proof of that. Storytelling has been the only thing I really have in my toolbox. I'm pretty filterless. So I really tell it like it is. And maybe I'm not always right with my passion, but I feel that plant medicine has given me a purpose

and given me power to find my voice. And storytelling is a way that people can relate. Like if there are people listening to the show right now, and you're a nurse, for instance, and you're suffering, battling from depression or anxiety or any of the multitude of issues, burnout, whatever, and you're hearing this and maybe you haven't really embraced cannabis of medicine, you're going to relate to my story because you're going to say, wow, you know, I can totally remember how I felt that way. And what's cool is that's all I'm trying to do,

is normalize the conversation and bring everyone together. in a way that makes cannabis and plant medicine understandable. And I feel that storytelling is the way to do that. You know, trying to throw real technical terms at everybody and, you know, trying to do the cannabis 101 with people is really hard to, you know, get their emotions running and their emotions and feelings flowing. So by sharing my story, I feel that that. really helps people kind of relate.

And I look like I'm still live, but no one else is here. Hello, friends. Oh, look. I'm back. Yay! That is a little scary. I'm not going to lie. My computer just went completely dead.

I was like, oh my gosh, what happened? Well, I'm glad to see you. I'm glad we're not a lot more. That's good. Nice job on carrying the story. Yeah, well done. Thank you. I guess that brings me to the next question, which would be, as an advocate, you navigate the intersection of science, ethics, and human suffering. How do you balance these elements in your advocacy work and what insights have you gained from this balancing act? Oh, it's a balancing act.

Trying to navigate the political aspect has probably been the biggest challenge. I've struggled with because each state is literally like its own country. It has its own sets of rules and regulations. As a patient, my condition, my TBI symptoms, they don't recognize state lines. So as a result, if I'm in Texas, I'm still just as injured as I was if I'm in New York or Nevada or Tennessee. So one of the struggles that I see for patients, especially is we need our medicine. This is our medicine. We take this every day.

It should not be stigmatized and we should not be penalized for consuming our medicine in our non-home state. The fact that many states don't offer medical patients reciprocity. In other words, if I'm a medical patient in New York and I go to Pennsylvania, in theory, taking my medicine from New York to Pennsylvania is crossing state lines. and so therefore is federally illegal. But do we do it? Absolutely, because I just got done saying, my condition doesn't understand state lines. But a better plan would be for me to be able to go to that Pennsylvania dispensary

and be able to purchase cannabis because I'm a medical patient in New York. So these are things that have to be worked out at a federal level. But it's very discouraging. You know, like in New York, we've done some things. things right. Some. For instance, like our possession limits, you know, I can have three ounces on my person and not get in trouble anywhere in the state. I can consume cannabis anywhere cigarettes are legal. So if you can smoke tobacco outside a bar or restaurant, you can smoke your cannabis. That is a huge win for patients and it helps remove the stigma. Lots of people don't like it, but lots of people don't

like people smoking cigarettes either. We've just come to accept it. And everyone has to do what's right for them. So if they are a patient and they must smoke their medicine, we as a society need to not make them feel less than. And I can tell you, I felt really less than when I was going to the doctors and they were literally telling me, you know, this is not medicine. If you smoke it, you're just getting high. No, I'm not. I'm getting well. And we need to recognize that. Yeah, the problem with stigma is, I think it speaks volumes of the human condition in a way. Like it just speaks to this idea of judgment. We just want to judge everybody. And the reason we judge everybody because we don't want to judge ourselves. Yes, but again, I go back to the statement.

People don't know what they don't know. And maybe they're judging. because they don't know how else to deal with that. And, you know, again, I was not an understander of invisible illness. And I had chronic pain. And, you know, you see the guy with the handicapped sticker getting out of his car and he's kind of just jumping out of it, I would judge that. I would be like, like, what the hell? Why are you parking in a handicaps face?

Where's your cane? Well, now I have a handicapped sticker. I have a handicapped sticker. I won't remember where my car is. There's certain things that people just are judging about because they can't see it, because they can't put a finger on it. And as a nurse, as someone that's really learned empathy through this journey, I just want to say it's okay.

You know, we can't force people to understand a message they're not ready to receive. And like, I'm always planting seeds. And the people that will need cannabis the most, I believe one day will reach out to me, even though they were the haters and they were the antis and they were, oh, you're just getting high. Well, I guarantee you one of those doctors that said that, their mother, their wife, their brother may have cancer one day and be suffering terribly. And they're going to remember the conversation that I had with them. And they're going to maybe hopefully think, well, maybe I should try that pot stuff that brain injured girl said. You know?

We just, we have to get past that point of, I know more than you and you're stupid if you don't think the way I do. Yeah. It's, uh, well, what would you tell yourself? Like, if you could go back now and talk to the Nikki that was super and that already made up her mind about what cannabis was. Like, what would you tell her? Stop judging.

Stop judging and be kind. My son got arrested for growing cannabis in 2013 before I got hurt. And I disowned him. I absolutely disowned him. I'm not a family that understands cops, lawyers, break-ins, any of that. Like, so when that happened to my son, I literally couldn't stand him. And I could not believe what he did. And I was beyond judgmental.

So I wish I could take that back back in 2013 because now look at me. I'm growing myself. I have plants because it's legal in New York for patients to grow. And when I think back at the horrible experience of becoming a, you know, he was a prisoner. He went to jail, you know, called me every day, sobbing, saying they're beating me up. They're taking my stuff. They're doing this. They're doing that.

It was absolute hell for me. But I think if I could go back now, and if that were to happen tomorrow, I mean, I wouldn't just own him, but I sure as hell wouldn't be happy. but at the same time, I would have more compassion because I see how it's my medicine. We would have no adult use programs if it wasn't for legacy growers and the patients who were served by those legacy growers. Those legacy growers risked everything to help other people manage their symptoms, whether it was AIDS, whether it was cancer, whether it was chronic pain. There were so many people that were suffering, and this plant helped save them. And we always labeled them as hippies or, you know, the Woodstock group and things like that. But if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't even be talking about a regulated adult use market.

Yeah, it's it's disheartening to think about people still in jail or in prison and how this industry was kind of built on their backs. Yes. Yes. And now look at us. I don't under, no one should be in jail for a plant. They just shouldn't, you know. I mean, I get if you had guns and you had like other drugs and you had other things, okay. But if you literally were just marketing cannabis as a street pharmacist or growing cannabis as an agricultural human, it should not be demonized. Because if it wasn't for those guys taking the risks, patients wouldn't have. had access to medicine. Yeah. Do you think that being part or being part of a patient advisory board, can you expound on the like the philosophical concept of representation and its significance in ensuring the patient voices are not only heard, but also valued in the cannabis industry?

Interesting concept. As my, my speech on Friday, I was a speaker at NICAN, the New England Cannabis Convention, in Albany was just that. Why medical patients matter and why industry leaders need to take notice. We're an ROI, my friend. We're an ROI because one of the things that is great about us is we need it all the time. We aren't just looking to get high on Friday night. We need it consistently.

Once we find a product, we're incredibly loyal to dispensaries, to cultivars. once we, and then we tell people, you know, the faith in community is a really strong voice. And we tell others, having us as part of the decision making, whether it's for formulating, packaging, labeling, even dispensary setup, we bring value because this is our medicine. This is how we function. And so a lot of people don't understand that, you know, like, say, oh, the medical market's dead. No, it's really not. I mean, people in the adult use are really technically using it for medical reasons a lot of times. They just don't want to get a card.

They don't want to be in the database that, you know, they're still old school. They're afraid. They're afraid, you know, because of the federal status, it's a thing for people. So just knowing that, it's important that our voice is heard. So being part of an advisory board with the patient experience, I think has really served me well to help normalize that conversation in non-patients. So like cannabis BPO is a call center company. So I've given insight and information on what patients need, not just what businesses need. When you're talking to a patient, you can't talk to them, you can't talk at them. You have to talk with them. And, you know, just little things like that that seems so you should know that.

they don't know. So I just really try and break it down and simplify it and teach them. Patients are valuable. Like, why aren't we getting more patients instead of just complaining about our medical program? Well, the more patients we have, the more advancements we could have to our medical program. The more businesses and cultivars and cultivators that recognize our value will start to include us in those conversations. One of the things I'm working on now is bringing the small farmers to the different retail dispensaries we have in New York State. They have a whole different path than our registered organizations in New York or MSOs or whatever you may know them as. We have 10 in New York State and handle our whole state. We have 38 medical dispensaries.

Currently, we have 23 adult use dispensaries that have all been justice impacted individuals who were preferenced on the food chain so that they could open before just general license applicants. What that means is they've been to jail. They have charges on the record that were related to cannabis. So they actually had the first mover advantage to get into the New York state market, adult use market. So I'm trying to bring the little guys together

to the big guy footprint. Yeah, I love that. I, on some level, I think that that makes for a better user experience. And not only that, but it helps, I think it helps change the model a little bit. Like, it's so much better when the people that have built it from the ground up or the people that are on the ground level get to participate in that decision making. It's such as much more user-friendly. It is.

It is. And, you know, if you're a corporate guy and you literally have just been doing cad drawings of dispensaries, you're not going to understand it from a patient perspective walking in. You know what I'm saying? Like, you need to walk with me and I'm going to tell you what's wrong with your design. You know, you're not being inclusive. What about the guy in a wheelchair? You know, he can't see over that car, that, you know, petition that you have going on there.

What about Grandma Jones who can't read? The size ain't font isn't going to help her, you know? Her eyes are bad. So how do we improve the font size? You know, do we have, okay, If on the packaging, that's your requirement, well, how about you have some posters up that people can understand the different cultivars and the different farms available and in a way that they can read it? You know, handouts, they can't. You know, and actually remember why we recommended this particular cultivar.

And then they have a printout saying, you know, sort of like at the pharmacy, they give you a printout of the medication you take. Well, we should kind of, I feel, be doing the same thing. in a dispensary because I don't remember half the time what this was recommended for. And, you know, again, each state, different requirements, different regulations, different abilities of what they can say. In our adult use dispensaries, I walk in and I say, hey, what can I use for sleep? They're like, well, I can't really tell us. Do that advice.

But, you know, their hands are tied. They can't say we have this CBN gummy and it kicks. but for sleep, try this. You know, they can, they can, it's very, very tight what they can say and how they can say it. So how do we remove that barrier for consumers? Yeah. What, do you have any ideas on that? Like I said, the handout.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. For the information to go home. Right. Yeah. It's, it's amazing to think about it in, in that. way. And like you said, I don't think that that's a corporate view. I think that the corporate view is more of like, well, this is an architect who helped build the last Apple store. It's going to be

awesome, you know? Right. Right. It's not. You know, like, herpes should be your focus, not too HC percent. Lose the labels of Indica, Sativa and a hybrid, because they really mean nothing, like not in the real world, real experience. You know, you can have a quote sativa and it puts you on to sleep because it's too rich in one of the particular turpines that your body likes for sleep. So, you know, you don't know until you try and you don't know what you don't know. So, I mean, I can't tell you how many products I have right now in my shelves that I tried once and it wasn't for me. So that's now guest cannabis. That's awesome.

You know, in envisioning a future where invisible illness and disabilities gain global awareness, what principles underpin your belief in the power of shared human experiences and narratives? Invisible is so hard to make visible. And talking about it, I think if nothing else, the pandemic changed a lot of that for us that showed the invisible and made it visible, you know, how many people suffer. from anxiety and depression and like real mental health breakdowns because they were now isolated and they couldn't interact with people. And, you know, so I feel that that's a little bit better now than it was three years ago, but it's still a problem. You know, visible and invisible illnesses

are really ultimately the same. I mean, I'm not in a wheelchair, but I struggle with word finding. I struggle with thought process and like completion of tasks. Like my executive function from my injury is really a thing. Like meaning to actually formulating an idea and complete that idea are really difficult for me. And that's not something I've ever been used to. So that was a huge direct hit of my functionality in a work setting, in a play setting, in anything. So how do we share that and educate others on that is by talking about it, by storytelling, by helping people relate.

And when we see someone with, you know, that's neurodiverse or that has had challenges growing up and maybe they're a little wacky, instead of judging them, you know, give them grace, be kind, you know. And I think that is what has gotten me through the last five years, probably better than anything, is kindness and grace and giving people a break. You know, okay, so he snapped at me. He really didn't mean it. You know, we all have bad days. So try and be less judging and more loving.

Like that's really my take, you know. And educate, educate, educate, educate, educate, educate, educate, educate, educate, educate. Kate, go to diversity inclusion seminars. Go to, you know, there is a group online that's really targets invisible disabilities. It doesn't make us any less visible. You know, we are still here. And that's what's important. You know, we need to give kindness and compassion.

Yeah. I love the way that you said that, it seems to be, suffering seems to be the one thing that we all have in common and it binds us. You know, it's, it's interesting how this thing that we are ashamed of sometimes or we're afraid of we don't want to face is the one thing that humanizes us to everybody else. And if you could see it in yourself, you could probably see it in somebody else. It's, it's so interesting to think about it from that angle. But you're right, kindness and grace.

Kindness and grace for the win. That's what I always say. And I mean, I'm living proof of that, you know, people that have taken an interest in my story, people that have reached out to me to be on their podcast, people that have reached out for me to be a speaker at their events, they care what I have to say. They feel that I have a voice of reason that can get to the multitudes. And that's kind of really humbling and really kind of cool. You know, who would have thought that this tragedy could be turned into triumph? Yeah. It's a fascinating way to see it. In some ways do you? feel like the plant is speaking through you? Do you think it like changes who you are in some ways in like a metaphysical way? I don't know about that. I know that the plant does a lot of talking for me. I'm always in polka dots in a red blazer when I go to all these events and everything

because cannabis connects my dots. So it's pretty on brand marketing all the time. So I'm on a show. I think the other day I was in stripes though. So I completely. no, Mark. It's really a thing. So I don't know that it changed me metaphysically, but I can say it definitely has allowed me to be more open-minded and live in the moment and appreciate little things around me instead of things that, like, I can't even tell you since my injury, how much I love sunsets and sunrise. To me, it's the most beautiful thing that I never really.

took notice of, you know? I mean, I saw them. Oh, yeah, it's pretty. But now I literally just, I watched that sunset. I watch it rise. And it's really such a beautiful, beautiful way to start the day or end the day. And when you have that ability, I can't even tell you, it's such an undervalued experience. And I just, you know, you live in Hawaii. I mean, you have some of the best ever. So, you know, I live in Buffalo. We have more proud of the new sun. So I guess when I see it, it's just so prolific. It's just so, you know, really touches me. Yeah. It's, it's being around nature, whether you're in it or on it or surrounded by it, it really gives you time for reflection. And it seems like these heightened states of awareness, they really help

strength and that connection to the beauty that is all around you. And when you can begin embracing that or feeling as if you're part of that beauty around you, it fundamentally changes your relationships, the way you see the world, the way you talk, the way you act. It's really empowering in so many ways. Totally. Totally. I totally would.

I mean, I guess your metaphysical analogy there is sort of relevant. But I mean, I've never like ever said to anybody, oh my God, the planet just changed me and save me and create this whole new human. No, but it has allowed me to do a lot of things, just maybe not completely changed who I am. Right. It's a, I think being in Hawaii and the ideas of being, being embraced in having those sunsets wash over you, they really, they change you, you know, being in the ocean all the time. Or just, that's why I mean surrounded by nature. and I like sometimes they get a little too woo-woo, but I can't hope it's so beautiful, you know. You're right, you're right.

You get to do a little white brag in there because I've never been to Hawaii, but it's definitely on my bucket list. Yeah, you should definitely make it out. You know what, let me ask you this. When seeking the ideal organization to collaborate with in the cannabis industry, what values or ethical principles you believe should be at the core of an entity that genuinely aims to make a difference in patients' lives? caring about the patient over profits.

That's the most core definition. Listening to patients, actually hearing them instead of just yesing them. Having patience where decisions are being made. Like I have reached out and talked to so many different organizations where I believe I can make an impact. And I'm always told we don't have a budget for that. You shouldn't not have a budget for this because I am the face that can literally change your sales, bring your boost up. But they have to have that core medical premise. They have to see and understand that patients are valuable.

Patients matter. They're a loyal, dedicated consumer. They're going to want to use my products more than Joe's down the street because they're a medical patient so they can only access. them or there's just so much to it. But if they don't put us in those conversations, there's really, they don't get it. And so I, my goal is to find the right organization and research and, you know, not focusing on just THC, but minor cannabinoids and turpines. And how can we make better products with better bioavailability? How can we make our products more affordable, but not compromise on quality.

How can we incentivize patients to purchase from us in a way that incentivizes them to bring other patients to our dispensary? It's really all about collaboration, not competition. And so when you think of the very big organizations, they have like CPG people. behind it. You know, consumer packaged goods people. They have engineers or, you know, they think that social media

is going to be their new and only, so they hire these really hot young influencers and think that that's going to make a difference. That does not resound with me. That does not, the chick in the bikini with the dog and the joint, just it's not doing it for me. You know what I mean? like I would much rather see the woman in the wheelchair smoking the joint than I would, the scantily clothes, bikini babe. You know, you've got to know your messaging. You've got to know your target market.

And that's one of the most fundamental things. And if a company doesn't see the patient experience as value, I really have no potential collaboration opportunities with them. Yeah. on some level you can really see the difference between someone who understands and probably uses the product versus someone who is just trying to sell the product. It's almost this relationship between lived experience and book education. Correct. Correct. One of my favorite brands is based out of Florida and they're an incredible brand and they have like a younger

CEO. I mean, the guy is a perfect image of the young CEO. But he literally said to me, he said, you are a much better face of our brand, because we're targeting the more middle-aged consumer. Who are you going to listen to the young 28-year-old or the 53-year-old woman who uses the product all the time? I mean, even though he may use the product, he may be incredibly well-spoken, he may be all these great things. But at the end of the day, the 50-year-old patient is going to listen to me over they are over him. And not that that is any reflection on him. It's just I've had more lived experiences and can share those in a different way.

And it brings credibility. So people are really screwing up with thinking that they have to hire these beautiful, perfect young people because it's really not the image you ultimately really want. You want the voice of experience. You want the voice of empowerment. You want the person that has overcome adversity and now is talking about the success, in my opinion. Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. While we've spoken a little bit about invisible illnesses and some traumatic experiences that cannabis can help with,

I've seen a growing number of people that have been using it, like, towards the end. end of life parts of their life. Maybe you could, have you seen that? And can you speak to that a little bit? Absolutely. Palliative care and end of life is such usually a crappy time. And honestly, when I first heard about cannabis as medicine when I was working as a nurse and everything, that was the people I always associated that would use cannabis.

just trying to improve their dying, if you will. And I was always like, well, who am I to judge if they want to get high before they die? You know, like, let them. But now I see it as truly a way of not being doped out of their mind on morphine and oxycontin and literally being able to enjoy those around them. and give them some lucid moments where they can reflect on their life and have a more peaceful experience. And there are more and more death doulas coming online. It seems sort of weird to me.

I'd never heard of a death dula. And now all of a sudden they're like all over my page. Which is fine. I mean, like, it's, I mean, I'll be the first one to say, death makes me uncomfortable. You know, I don't want to, and I was suicidal, you know, but at the same time, you realize, you know, it's the end. But how do you preserve those memories in the best way? How do you help your loved ones through such a traumatic time of losing the person you are? So I really believe cannabis has an amazing possibility to ease in the end of life and palliative care. I really feel that it should be more mainstream.

I mean, people that are in hospice houses, a lot of times can't access it because of federal regulations. And, you know, anyone who gets money from Medicare, they're not technically allowed to have patients use it either. So it's a real struggle. And these are things that need to change on a global level. Yeah, it's fascinating to me. You know, on some level when I think about how long cannabis has been in use, I often think about like historical use, be it like ceremonies and set in setting. And in some ways, when I think of palliative care, I see the reemergence of that ceremony

or that right of passage in a way because you have your loved ones around you and you have this plant that's been there with you. And it's interesting that you said it gives people back these moments of lucidity. Because we don't think of cannabis maybe given you. lucidity or maybe the person that doesn't use it doesn't think about that. You know, it's kind of an interesting return to rights of passage in a way, isn't it? Absolutely. Absolutely. And if we can improve the quality of death, doesn't that mean something? Yeah. You know, like, I mean, I would much rather my mom, if she gets, when she gets to that point, be able to use cannabis and just be doped out on

morphine all day. You know, I mean, I don't know if she will, but I can at least, I think maybe then she might even consider it. But, you know, we've all been taught the bad, the bad, the bad about cannabis. So on our dying deathbed, are we going to really turn to it? Not if we haven't heard about it before then, I feel. Yeah, that takes us right back to stigma and how long those attitudes or those things that were ingrained and you stay with you until you try to change them. Yeah, it's a thing, unfortunately. It's a thing.

It's a thing. And we got to change it. Together we can't. We can't. Podcast and Nikki and the plan. Nice. Nikki, I love talking. This has been so much fun.

I really appreciate your time. You've been gracious with your time. And I'm looking forward to having some further conversations down the line with you. But before I let you go today, where can people find you? What do you have coming up and what are you excited about? So I'm on all social media platforms with the exception of Twitter. And you can find me at Nikki Lolly and I K-K-I-Lolly is L-A-W-L-E-Y. I'm on Facebook, Insta, YouTube, and Nikki and the Plant spelled out.org is my website.

So there's lots of information there. And if you pretty much just Google me, you'll find my podcast because people are much better at that I am on their podcast. They're much better at the SEO optimization than I am. So I show up quite frequently. But I welcome the follows. I welcome many comments. And I'm excited because this weekend, this last three weeks has been kind of crazy with events and speaking gigs and things going on. So I finish it up this weekend with the Ohio Health and Business Summit in Cleveland, Ohio. So I'm speaking there on a women's panel. So that's this weekend. So I'm pretty excited about that. And, you know, I'm just excited that cannabis's conversations, you know, just even in the last five years, have come so far. And we're talking about it more and we're helping others find plant medicine.

And that at the end of the day is what really makes me happy. And the more people I can help and the more people that I can help change their minds, that's what the goal is. Really well said. Ladies and gentlemen, go down to the show notes. Check out Nikki's website. check out, leave her some comments, give her a follow. Check out everything she's doing. Listen to some of her other speeches.

She's really engaging and she has a really unique and powerful way of explaining why the world of cannabis is not only maturing, but becoming a real opportunity for people to help heal themselves. So that's all we got. Nikki, hang out real briefly afterwards. I'm going to talk to you, but I'm going to hang up with our friends right here. So ladies and gentlemen, I hope you had a beautiful time. Go check out, Nikki. That's all we got for today.

Aloha.