TrueLife - Paul Apao - Late Night Conspiracy Theory

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

Late night talk inspired by coast to coast radio.

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. We got a interesting night for you. You know, when I was younger, I always used to listen to George Noreen. coast to coast a.m. And all these shows where they talked about late night conspiracies and ideas,

the obtuse things that happen and aliens and just all these cool things. Oh, the one and only. The one and only. Paul, how's it for, my friend? Good, bro. Oh, nice. I'm glad to see. I was sitting here thinking about when I was younger,

I would always listen to like coast to coast a.m. And I would listen to these old shows on the radio that got my imagination going. I thought I would do something like that. So thanks for joining, man. Yeah, man. Well, I'm sitting here just watching some Netflix. Nice. My wife fell asleep on the couch.

So I didn't even know what it was. Yeah. Until it took me to the stream yard thing. Yeah, man. You know, I've been reading this book about power lately. And it talks about the way in which people are governed. And it got me thinking, you know, and it got me thinking about how maybe we're in this digital era.

We're moving away from this idea of coercive power into a power structure that you can't really see. You know, with all this technology, it seems that it's, The same way that television and radio has been a force of propaganda, it seems like now there's this new form of propaganda, but we're doing it to ourselves. What do you think about the digital age and the way it informs people and changes the way we interact? I mean, you know, I'm down. I think it has its positives and it's negative like anything else. You know, I don't know, man. I've never really thought about like how it affects like the power struggle other than, you know,

being able to manipulate people a little bit. You know, you know what I've learned from like social media and this, you know, influx of information at a moment's notice, you know, by almost anybody is there's no real checks and balances on the whole thing, you know. I mean, people can get away with saying just about anything and then people are free to believe what people say, right? Right. Yeah.

You know, whereas like, like when you have, you know, you know, in a traditional like news media outlet, you know, they have like, you know, the checking of sources, you know, because you heard it from one person doesn't make it true. Because you heard it for two people doesn't make it true. But if a third person can confirm with, you know, what was said or what was done, then usually you can kind of, you know, make, you know, say that this is probable that this happened. And, you know, nowadays, you know, that doesn't happen, which it lends, you know, the possibility of people using social media to very easily influence other people, you know, with, you know, with either the truth or lies. It's kind of a weird thing. I don't know. Yeah, it makes sense. In some ways, I think it's like a great equalizer because you have people that can go on and talk about anything.

and make a rumor seem to be true. You know, and it seemed like in the past, everybody trusted like the Walter Cronkide or they trusted the people in news or they went to a certain source that they believed in. But they didn't really have any real reason to believe the people that were talking to them. So in some ways, I feel like it's kind of the same.

It's just that, you know, maybe we're just more skeptical now. Or maybe it's because I'm getting older and I'm more skeptical. But it seems like there's a whole lot of bullshit out there, man. And there always has been. You know, I mean, there's this idea, you know, that there's like some puppets pulling strings, you know, some puppeteers pulling strings somewhere, you know, that are kind of controlling information and society and, you know, the power structure and all the rest of that stuff. And I think, I think this is just, I think it's mostly just people being people, you know. If you put people into situations where they have to be productive, I mean, they generally will.

If you put people into positions where they have to be productive for their livelihood, they most definitely will. Yeah. You know, and so, you know, I think you and I talked about this before, you know, as we go to, you know, in the office place or at school or whatever, you know, generally, most people, I think are self-serving. And so when you have, you know, a lot of people who's, you know, daily motivation is largely self-serving, then, you know, then crazy things are going to happen, you know. And sometimes those things can appear like they're being manipulated by somebody else, but everybody's doing it, right? Everybody's serving typically themselves, you know? I mean, is it some people's jobs to serve an agenda? Yeah, that's for sure.

But at the end of the day, you know, people are doing that job so that they can collect that paycheck so they can go home and they can support their families. And I think that, you know, inherently people are, you know, are greedy. And so when you have all of these, you know, things, pieces, cogs, you know, or whatever you want to call them, you know, within this structure that are kind of, you know, jamming things up because of their greediness, then, you know, then you're going to have things that, you know, may be coincidental, but seem to be planned. You know, you know, it's like, it's almost like you can, to me, it's almost like you can, these things are predictable, right? Some of them, like, what do you mean?

Like, give me, like, can you make a, give me something that's predictable that you think is going to happen? Wars. Wars. Yeah. Now, do, is it, if we can, you're basing, that off of the idea that history repeats itself, or at least it rhymes. There's always been wars, people are always going to fight over resources, so there's always going to be wars. Is that

accurate? Yeah. And so, I mean, but just look at the reason why people are fighting over resources. You know, this is, you know, we've had discussions about abundance, right? And the scarcity of resources and the abundancy of resources and the people that we have discussions with have different ideas about that. You know, but sometimes we, we, know that, you know, there could be abundance of a certain resource that is being limited for financial reasons. Right. And so people seek resources from other places. You know, you and I've had a lot of conversations about the supply chain. Yeah. You know, and so, you know, it's a giant chess game, this world we live in. And people are always moving pieces around in order to gain

an advantage and to ultimately win a game that to me cannot be won. You know, it could be controlled by certain groups of people for a certain amount of time. And then eventually the other groups of people will figure out how to weigh to gain that control back. And on and on we go. And it's been happening for thousands of years. Yeah, that, you know, I'm getting, like I just read this book or I'm in the middle of this book. It's by, I think guys name is David Sassoon. It's going to kill me if I get it wrong, probably.

but he comes from the family of Sassoons. And the Sassoons are basically very similar to the Rothschilds in that they owned a large part of resources from the Middle East in like the 16 and 1700s. And he's got all this literature on his family and his cousins. And, you know, it just makes me wonder, you know, I come from a broken home, but it makes me wonder what it's like to come from a family

where you know not only what happened to your mother, your grandmother, but you have books and you have literature that talks about your great, great, great grandmother. When you have these families that have generational wealth, there's a lot of problems just like every family has problems. But it's got to be fascinating to have a family that's intact from that long ago, wouldn't you think? I mean, you know, in a way, I mean, how far can you trace your family? back. Well, I can go back. I have like one of those cool, you know, uh, websites where you can trace

everything back. And I can trace mine back to, um, my dad's side of the family. I can trace back to like 1700s in France, you know, and I can see all the people that fought in wars, but I don't know any of them. I mean, I didn't, I just know from looking at pictures of them. But there are families to have lineage where they probably were brought up in chateaus and they would go skiing with their great-grandfather who owned Rockefeller pipelines and stuff. I'm just saying that family must be amazing. Yeah, so it's well-documented family history is what you're talking about.

Yeah, not only well-documented, but you know, you're looking at businesses and corporations handed down from time, like in the family where there's assets that have been handed down for generations. What do you think that's like? I mean, I have no idea, you know, what that kind of life is like. But I can't imagine that it would be like from an individual person, individuals perspective in that family, that it would be much different than my perspective, you know, growing up in my family, you know, or your perspective of growing up in your family. You know, it's like, it's like, you know, growing up without, you know, with being poor and not having things. well, you know, that was me when I was a kid.

Yeah. Right. And it's like, I didn't look at the world as this place where I was like, oh, you know, like there's a bunch of wealthy people out there and I'm poor. No, man, I got on my bike, you know, however beat up it was or my skateboard or whatever. And I went out and I, you know, hung out with my friends and we went to the playground and we rode bikes around. And we didn't think about like, you know, the struggles that our parents were going through or any benefits that they had received while, you know, while, you know, when I was a kid. either way.

You know, it was just being a kid. It was just growing up. And it wasn't until I got older that I realized like, oh, there's, you know, there's really differences in how people live, you know. But, you know, so I think it's, I think it's when you, if you come up in a family like that, you know, it's just everything is normal. It's like your childhood and my childhood, however weird, those experiences may have been, you know, from other people looking at them, you know, but, you know, I think it's just, you know,

I think it's, you know, I think it's just all normal to them. You know, this is just the way. And then usually, like, people that come from, like, you know, abundance of wealth are, you know, are only associating with people that also come from the same situations. And so everything is just quite normal. You know, there isn't any. It's probably later on in life when they start realizing, you know, like teenage years, early 20s, when they start to really understand how different, you know, things are for them

compared to everybody else. Do you think it's any different from like Like different races Do you Different races think different things about other races Do you think that's like That's similar to how maybe poor families Is class structure the same as race structure you think?

No I don't think so You know Um You know Although I would say that There are some That are there are some classes of people that are more closely associated with certain, you know, with, you know, especially like when it comes to, you know, like lower economics, you know, at least here in America, right, that are, you know, more closely associated with certain races of people, you know, which is unfortunate.

Like white people in the Appalachians? Like white people in the Appalachians? Like black people in the inner city. Mm-hmm. You know? And then it's interesting, you know, that because, you know, those people have. have more in common with each other, the poor people. Yeah. Than they do with their, you know, with people who are wealthy of the same race.

Yeah. It's weird how, like, we end up in identity politics. Like, you know, like if you look at prisons, like I've never been to prison, but I know some people that have and I, you know, read a little bit. But it seems that when you find yourself in, in a situation like that, all you have left is identity politics. And it seems when you run out of resources or when things get to be to a point where there's not a lot of money going around, people devolve into identity politics. Do you see that happening? Yeah. You know, I mean, to a certain extent, you know, I think a lot of people get their political views from their parents, you know, the family.

Right. You know, their friends, the communities that they grow up in. You know, I think a lot of that is kind of. You know, it's predetermined. I look, I come from a family of Democrats, right? It's like, all of my family, you know, are all Democrats. You know, I got one crazy, you know, a cousin who is not, and he's not a crazy, he's a good guy. But that's what we call him. Like, we're like, that's the crazy guy.

Yeah. You know. Yeah. And so it's because, like, you know, when I was a kid and I'd listen to my parents And then, you know, I'd listen to my grandparents and it was all, you know, was all the same, you know, messaging. You know. Yeah. So it was just, you know, it just became, you know, and then you kind of learn to look at things a certain way.

You know, things become more important to you because of, you know, because of your parents and your grandparents. Yeah. And so in some ways, you know, it. I guess we all are given a lens that our parent gives us. And it's kind of up to us to find a new way to either polish that lens or look through another lens. You know, I have found the best way in my life is not to vote for a party, but vote for an idea. You know, you vote for this person has an idea. Let's take that on instead of worrying about what color they wear.

You know, and I, it just gets me thinking, like, a lot of times when institutions get really big, they just get corrupted. And like that's kind of what I see happening in our nation right now. It's like there's there's just been years of corruption to the point where, you know, both sides, even though they claim to be against each other, are taking money from the same companies.

They're feeding from the same trough. And so they don't really have a huge desire to, to do anything that rocks the boat too much, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat. Yeah. I mean, what do they say? Like, those, everybody in Congress is just, they're two sides of the same coin.

Right. You know? And I mean, I think, I think by and large, it's at least politically, right? The idea is to maintain status quo. Right. You know, to just keep doing what we're doing because it seems to work,

which is the same, which is kind of the same argument that I was making in the Kanye West thing. Right. They were talking about, right? It's just, I don't think there's like, there's, you know, this underlying evilness. I just think it's, you know, what, like we, you're the, Kanye, you're the, you know,

the 1,135,000, 22nd star to be born in Hollywood. And we've used a document similar to this or this exact document for, you know, 100 years. Yeah. You know, it's the principle. Yeah, I agree. I want to go back to this, man, because I know you and I,

you and I disagree on this. And I'm going to try to take the emotion out of it. I need your information because I think you've read up on a lot of civil rights leaders more than I have. And so earlier in the discussion, earlier today and prior, I had said that I, I see in Kanye West the makings of a civil rights leader like Dr. King. And I want to explain why I see that. it's not that I see him giving the elegant speeches,

but what I do see is that in the beginning when Dr. King came out, there was all these people that didn't want him around. They tried to cancel him. They try to yell. I mean, they said to say all these horrible things about him. And it seems to me like that was a real movement that got behind him. Like they were seeing things.

And at first it was pretty much the African American people that were getting behind Dr. King. And in the beginning, it wasn't all of them. There were probably a lot of African-Americans. They were like, dude, shut up. We don't want to hear you. And so when I listen to Kanye, you know, I hear him talking about, hey, my people are sick. And then recently I saw on the news that Kyrie Irving started saying things like, yeah, hey, he's right. And then Kyrie Irving gets canceled.

They tell him he can't play basketball anymore. And so in my mind, what I'm seeing is like, hey, here's another super. superstar that has come out and said something and he got pushed down he got shut down they said hey shut up you can't play anymore hey conya shut up you can't play anymore i started noticing videos where another african-american guy was saying like they put up the they put up one of the best of us they put up the riches of them and they put them on tv and they smack him down they're trying to send a message to us and it's that sort of like in the time of of we're in now it does seem a lot like 1930s like There's this, we're moving in history.

Back in the 60s, there was this movement, this civil rights movement. And I think we're seeing it begin again. I think that Black Lives Matter was co-opted. I think the proud boys co-opted. The fascist group. They're all co-opted groups. Like the people have been in there and they have cut off the head of the snake. But I think what you're seeing with Kanye and Kyrie Irving is like an actual movement being

born. And it's being really hard to be suppressed right now. So I'm not saying that he is like, Dr. King in the ways he is in the ways that you may think. But I'm saying that I think that maybe what's happening is there's a movement beginning to develop around him, like an organic movement. And the people in positions of power, regardless of who they are, are doing everything they can just to smash him down. And in doing so, they're making it bigger. The more you try to shut something up, the bigger it gets. So that's what I meant by that. What's your take on that?

I think that's rubbish. Why? Well, because Okay, so you said a lot there. And for one, you know,

whatever Kanye West and Kyrie Irving are talking about is built on things like we had this discussion before, right? Like old tropes against Jewish people that have not been proven out.

What doctor Dr. King talked about was like legitimate things. Jim Crow law, you know, the stuff that happened after reconstruction, you know, when, you know, right after the Civil War, you know, he would also talk about women's suffrage. Like, these are things that were factual, things that were written on paper, you know, like Jim Crow was written out. People that, you know, local and state politicians and even federal politicians adhered to it. there was no there was no guaranteed right for you know during the civil rights movement um and then in 1964 city in 1965 with the the voting rights law and the voting rights act and the civil rights act that you know that gave people black people the freedom to vote you know

um without having to like guess how many jelly beans are in the jar these are all things that were real, you know? Like what Kanye is talking about is like I said, I had a conversation with you before we had our conversation about Kanye where I was very much looking forward to anybody trying to make an argument and support of what he said

because what did I say? I'd be like a hot knife through butter. Yeah. It's so easy. It's so easy to rip apart that argument because there's no truth to it. You know? And I also said that millions of people for thousands of years have been trying to prove these same things

that Kanye West is saying, and they've all failed miserably. Now, I'm not saying that, you know, like someone can't come along and actually, you know, come up with some hard evidence and, you know, and prove at least some of these things true, but no one's done it to date. It hasn't happened. And I don't, I don't see it happening. So the, you know, the, you know, so the, you know, so the, the foundation that they're building on is, is, is fractured already. Dr. King didn't build what he was doing on

on fractured bits and pieces of conspiracy theory. He built it on facts. And that's why it was lasting and that's why it worked. You know, this is a fad what we're seeing right here with Kyrie and Kanye. You know what I mean? It's a fad.

It'll burn out. It'll flame out. It'll be gone. I give it three months. You think so? So here's my rebuttal to that would be would you say times are better now for all races than they were in the 60s? I mean, I think times are better for all people than they were in the 60s.

Well, I mean, I didn't live in the 60s, so I don't know. Yeah. And I think I know where you're going with this. You know, to me, the argument when it comes to like African Americans and, you know, living in America, isn't the fact like, hey, you know, like, what did they say? the last administration that was in power, like, oh, you know, there's the, you know, African-American unemployment's at an all-time low. Well, you know what? Unemployment for everybody's at an all-time low. And when unemployment for everybody's at an all-time high, then African-American

unemployment would be at an all-time high as well. And it's never been the gripe of African-Americans, to my knowledge. The gripe is, is their unemployment rate compared to white people, which that gap didn't close. In fact, it grew. that's so when you're talking about like are things better you know for all for people today than they were in 1960s maybe but when you compare you know are things better for black people compared to white people in the 1960s I don't know I don't know if they are yeah I don't know either and what I see happening and where I was going with this particular line of ideas was that you know it was the last election.

Like there were riots all over the country. And while they were mostly in poor neighborhoods, it seemed to me like there was a lot of, you know, we saw a lot of coverage from like BLM, but it was poor neighborhoods. You know, if we just look at it from that aspect,

if you look at the people that live in the poorest neighborhoods in our country, they're suffering across the board. You know, the infrastructure has, been nil for probably 20 to 30 years. And all, it seems to me, in the poorest neighborhoods, those are the people that are taken advantage of most. And when people have nothing left to lose, they lose it. So that's why, in my opinion, when you saw BLM, when you saw the proud boys,

when you saw the, what's the fascist one, the, the, the anti-fascist or whatever they call themselves? Antifa. Antifa. Like, I see all the, of the, I see those, those two, those, all those organizations as being infiltrated. You know, that's, that's a common thing that people and positions or governments do is when they see a movement that could cause trouble, they infiltrate it, they take it down. They get people in there, like the black block group that goes there and they break all the window. So then the cops can come in, and then they take the people away and they shut stuff down like that. It's a Hoover move. There you go. Exactly, right? And so why, and it's successful. It works. That's why they,

do it. And so, you know, when I, when I saw the riots that were taking place all across the nation, it was because the resources of the nation have been being sucked out of our country for the last, oh, I don't know, probably 50 years. And it's most prevalent in the poorest places. And when when people have nothing left to lose, they begin losing it. And I see what's happening now, this this entrenchment into identity politics, this breaking. up of the country that we live in, like that's the natural order of things. And there are going to be new groups that form, you know, especially if the elections become chaotic. You know, I don't know who to blame or if there is anyone to blame or if it's just this natural thing

that happens. But it was the, it seemed to me, according to the media, that there was all these riots because Donald Trump was going to win. Well, if we look what's going to happen on Tuesday, you're going to see this red wave come in. And is that going to cause more of the riots to be happening? Like the rhetoric that's out there right now is just incredibly irresponsible. But I guess the reason I'm bringing it up too is like I can see what Lex Friedman was talking about. Like it looks a lot like World War II. Like there are a lot of people out there that are thinking like Kanye.

There's a lot of people out there that are poor and have nothing left to lose and are looking for scapegoes. And that's why I see the movement being built up around. it. It seems to me that in the 60s, the white people seemed to be the most racist people, and that was where the hate was focused on. That's where the problem was. And that's where the fight began. But it seems what Kanye is saying, the same way that African Americans felt about white people in the 60s, African Americans today are feeling about Jewish people. And I don't think that not all white people were guilty in the 60s, not all Jewish people are guilty now, but I think you're going to see that same fight taking place. What do you think?

I don't know. I'm going to get you sent a lot. So first I would say, you know, Zach De La Rocha, the rhyme of the unheard. Right. So it's, it's always been that way where, you know, people who, you know, don't really have a voice or whose voice has been. suppressed, you know, will take to the streets when they've had enough. Yeah. Right? Why? Because, you know, it's been proven to, on some levels, work, right?

You know, but as far as like, you know, I mean, I don't really know about this, this, you know, like the black Jewish conflict. One, I'm not black, two, I'm not Jewish. Yeah, I don't either. And, um, but, you know, look, if a bunch of, you know, historically European American politicians can scapegoat Jews for black people, you know, then I think that, you know, then, you know, that's a win-win situation for them. You know, and I'm not saying that that's what's happening, but I, you know, it's really hard to have this conversation, you know, because I feel, you know, that the accusations that are being leveled against the Jewish people are. just, you know, and I don't know, maybe I'm trying to use some get a share, but far-fetched.

You know, they're not, they're not, they're not really based in any sort of reality, you know. It's like, it just, it seems so weak that it is not sustainable. You know, Kanye's words are not sustainable. Kyrie Irving's words are not sustainable. I think canceling them just makes their voice grow louder.

I don't think so. You don't think so? No, I don't think so. Are you... Look, Andrew Tate's been canceled, and you don't hear peep from him anymore. Dude, that guy's all over. That guy's blowing up.

Are you kidding me? People have moved on from Andrew Tate. I don't know. It's not like when he was a Google man in the world, you know. He's no longer the most Googled man in the world. I don't know. I see him on big name podcast, and he's probably getting, you know, I'd imagine tens of thousands of dollars per episode. I've seen him on big name podcast, too, largely groveling.

Oh, I guess I haven't listened to a whole, you know, to be honest, I haven't listened to a whole lot of what that guy says. I noticed he got, I didn't even know him until they got canceled. You know, a bunch of, you know, people are, you know, taking, you know, 10, 15 second, clips out of, you know, an hour interview that I gave, you know, 10 years ago and then turning them into, you know, turning them into clips on TikTok and Instagram and, you know, Facebook and all the rest of that stuff, you know. These guys, like, you know, guys walking back, you know, a lot of stuff that, you know, that he's been clipped, you know, like, and I don't know, you know, because I've never,

I've never listened to an hour of Andrew Tate, but, you know, I kind of believe him when he's got to say when he says like, hey, I did say that, but it was a part of this larger, broader conversation, you know. What about this? Let me, let me, let me, let me ask this to you. So when we listen to Kanye and he's talking about the media and the people, the Jewish media, people that surround him, like, you know, you look, you got Harvey Weinstein, just raping women left and right.

He was media. You got Jeffrey Epstein. He's taking people down to his private island and allegedly molesting children. The girl that was working with him was Galane Maxwell. She too was Jewish. Here's one about Brett Weinstein that really bothers me. So Brett Weinstein, a brilliant man, guy is incredibly intelligent. He runs the Dark Horse podcast, and he's a smart guy.

He was teaching at Evergreen College. And at that college, it was a very unique school because they allowed almost anybody to come. And at that school, some of the subjects they were teaching, teaching were, I don't know exactly the names of the courses or whatever, but it seemed to me that what they were teaching in there was that sort of Salalinsky tactics as far as the people in power are usually white people. They're usually- Rules for radicals. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so he was teaching this to a largely minority school. And at that school, the students decided, hey, we're going to have a no white person day.

And so Brett Weinstein shows up to work on that day. He gets chased out, like he gets chased out of there. And the question to me was, why did Brett Weinstein show up to his school when it was clear there were no white people there? And when I heard him talk, he doesn't identify as white. He goes, I'm not a white guy. I'm a Jewish guy. So in my mind, and he's never, he's never answered this question.

There's been people that have asked him, hey, Brett, you went to the school on that day because you're not white. You thought you were okay. And so when he's in his office, here comes some of the minority students that he taught rules for radicals to. And they say, what are you doing here, man? Get out of here. And he's like, I'm not a white guy. And they're like, dude, you look white to me. Get out of here.

They chased him out of that school. They threatened him. And the first thing he did is he went and hid behind white people. So it just seems odd to me that if you're going to teach tactics like rules for radicals and you're going to go into a school that you have decided it's okay to have no white people day and you're going to go there because you think you're Jewish and you're going to hide behind that when then people come for you, you should be careful who you hide behind. I mean, that seems like Kanye could leverage that in his argument somewhere.

And then you roll in Weinstein and Epstein and Maxwell. You look at some of the biggest forces out there that are in the, media right now. Like, I think that backs up his argument somewhat. I don't think it does. Wow. Was he teaching Anne Rand? No, he was teaching more like, like, guilt is the power you use when you're a slave.

That's the power that you have. Did you read rules for radicals? I did read rules for radicals. How to fart in theaters and, like, use. Right? Yeah. Salilinsky. What was Salalinski?

Was what? Salalinski was a Jewish fellow, wasn't he? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, you know, because some guy shows up at his college during no white day because he thinks he's not white and he thinks he's Jewish is totally, you know, that's his call. You know what I mean? Like he, if he doesn't feel, well, I mean. Look, there's a lot of different ways you can look at at race.

Like you read MindConf. I did. You also know a little bit of history about Hitler. I do. And, you know, and like Aryans. Like, you know, this is something I've done a lot of reading about, right? Right. And tool and all these other places where, you know, the birthplace and the origin of white people and their descriptions.

And, you know, the last I checked, like, if you look at, like, descriptions of Jewish people, they don't have. blue eyes, you know, and they're not, you know, they're from the Middle East, right? They're not, they're not Aryan people, you know, but not all Aryans are white, or not all white people are Aryans. But what I'm, I guess my point is, it depends on how you look at it. Right. So, like, this guy could be like, hey, I'm, I'm Jewish. Like, I'm, you know, I'm from the Middle East, you know, we are not typically, you know, we, relating to white people, you know, relating to white people we don't identify as being white people. So I'm going to show up to my school.

And I should be good. But that's not how other people view it, right? They might look at Jewish people and go, these are white people. But white people have looked at Jewish people and they're not white people. They're Jewish people. Yeah, I think minorities look at white people the way some minorities look at white people the way some white people look at Jewish people. Yeah.

You know, it's like, it's, it's, there's never for me, there's never been a real like, hey, these, these are where the lines are drawn as far as race. You know? Because, first of all, like, you know, so many people are of mixed race these days. Yes. And so, like, a lot of it is like what you identify with. And even with, even with Jewish people, you know, who are, you know, you know, who are, you know, They could be Russian Jews or they could be, you know, they could be Middle Eastern Jews or they could be Polish Jews. You know what I mean?

There's like who, you know, who knows how they identify. And so, I mean, I think it's legit that he showed up to school and didn't identify as a, I mean, Kanye identifies as a Jewish person. Yeah. So there you have it. Yeah. So it's black and identifies as Jewish, right? then this guy could be, you know, light skin, Jewish, and identify as not white. What's wrong with that?

I don't see anything wrong with that. Well, I would just saying the tactics that he was teaching were used against him, and then he ran and hid instead of like, you know, it seems to me like he could have been like, hey, I didn't think these tactics are going to backfire on me. I made a mistake. He could have said I made a mistake by teaching these particular tactics. But instead, he just doesn't. doubled down and said, they hate me because I'm white.

They hate me because I'm Jewish. It's like, well, you were teaching him that you were teaching, if you give someone a sword and teach him to fight, you should be, I don't know if you should be proud, but you should be cautious that they can use that sword against you. And I just don't think he was thinking about that. I mean, that's like, that's a lot of steps down the road to be thinking about, you know. I mean, he's an educator. Well, he's a hubris, I think.

Well, you know, look, he's teaching something. thing. And people in his classroom are listening to this stuff and then taking it, you know, literal. Yeah. And then, you know, which is, which is okay. And then there, these people keep stopping in front of my house. But, yeah, and then they just drive on. It's bizarre. But yeah, so, I mean, I don't know. You know, like, what was he going to say? Like, stand up and say that he was wrong for teaching these things? No, man. No. You now have to deal with it. You know, and if he couldn't see it coming, you know, which to me, you know, like they gave fair warning, right? When they said no white. Yeah, right. You know, I mean, he could have, he could have asked

for some clarification on that, you know. Or he could have respected their wishes. He could have, well, not if he thought that he wasn't a white person. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Also, I mean, maybe, baby, you know, look, like, we need to get some clarification. clarification on this man like can I come to school yeah you can't you're a white guy and then that would have been an interesting conversation you're a white guy no I'm not Jewish yeah you know and then they could have that whole conversation in fact the guy who you know that I was teaching you about this book that guy was Jewish too you know so let's you know let's let's let's have a let's have a conversation about that you know I mean the whole idea of like we're going to shut down the school

and white people can't show up that's stupid to begin right it's just like it's like you know you go to college to try to learn how to communicate and, you know, have higher levels of conversation, not to shut people out so you can try to make a point, you know? Yeah. You know, like you, you know, hey, hey, maybe you should have been teaching people how to communicate first before you taught them about this book Rules for Radicals. Right. Yeah, it's interesting to think. I, I think one of the reasons why Kyrie Irving got shut down is he posted this book and it was,

called Hebrews to Negroes. And it's like the number one bestselling book on Amazon right now in a couple of different categories. I've never read it. Apparently it's a documentary. And it seems that, and I forgot the director's name, but have you read that book? Have you seen that book? No.

And you know what? Like I don't, I don't, I never really, I read about like, you know, when it comes to the, like the black community, you know, um, I, not, not nothing about like Dr. King or, you know, like civil rights leaders. I was always more interested in, you know, the victims of, you know, of the United States government, mainly the FBI. Leonard Peltier, you know, J.J.U.E. Newton, you know, Bobby Sales. Mumia Abu Jammal, you know. Huey Newton was a Black Panther, wasn't he?

Yeah. But so to me it was, you know, so, no, I never, I don't, I haven't read. No, do I am. that Kyrie Irving has referenced. And I read a lot of like stuff written by like black nationalists and pan-Africanists. Yeah, I've saw some stuff by Muhammad Ali. Like that guy really had, not only was he a great heavyweight champion, probably the greatest of all time, but, you know, he had some interesting ideas about

black nationalism. Like, do you, like, maybe, like, I could see a resurgence of that. Like, I mean, there's white nationalism. Like, there's, what were some of the, ideas the black nationalist were talking about in some of the books you read well um i mean a whole bunch of ideas from from like having you know um you know like like free african land here in america to build their own communities and you know self-governance right um you know all the way down to like this idea of self-determination which has been denied you know African-American people

for a long time. And then, you know, like when you read about like Marcus Garvey was a black nationalist. And but he, he wrote about black nationalism on a global scale, you know, but he was also a pan-Africanist. And, and so I guess it depends on like which black nationalists you, you know, you're referring to because they all, you know, basically have this idea of, you know, of black people that have self-determination and lawful government, governance over their own land, right? With, you know, sustainable communities that are operated by black people, you know, currency trade that's controlled by black people, you know. But depending on what part of the globe, these black people live in, you know, their goals are going to be different, right?

Yeah. Yeah, just like all people, right? Like, everybody's got a different, you know, if we, if we, if we pan and so. back and we just look at ourselves as people, regardless of where you go, this group over here is probably going to be at odds with this group over here for some reason. You know, maybe it's their culture. Maybe it's the resources. But, you know, there's always going to be these ways of, of, you know, I guess it comes back to us being more tribal than anything, right? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You know, and those, those lines are really blurty. these days too. Yeah.

Because tribalism seems to be more about ideals than culture, you know, at least in America. Yeah. You know, so, I mean, where people are identifying with, you know, a whole bunch of different cultures that may not be, you know, of the race or the nationality where the culture, you know, was first birthed. And so that's a real interesting thing, too, right? Yeah. It is. You know, sometimes I go to the idea when we think about countries being born or we think about liberation.

Is liberation, is freedom just this little short window in between subjugations? It's like freedom like this little highway we go over from one subjugation to another subjugation. What do you mean? Like there's like a free zone? Well, like people don't, people aren't free. Like you may have a hundred year window where people enjoy freedom, but if you look at the history of the world, how many people were free? You know, what percentage of people were free if you look at history, you know, pick the history you want to read. But, you know, there's constant slaves in every country, everywhere.

There was kings and queens. And then there's been, you know, one person rulers. But like, is like the freedom that we have enjoyed. Maybe that was just an anomaly. Maybe freedom is an anomaly when you go from subjugated people and then there's a, there's a world war two. And then all of a sudden there's this outbreak of freedom and then people are controlled again. You know, maybe freedom is just a passing glance. I don't think it's an anomaly.

I think it's an illusion. Okay. I'll go with that. Can you explain that a little bit more? What do you mean? Well, I mean, you know, like there's, we have this, there's this idea of what freedom is that, you know, living in America, you know, you read the Bill of Rights. rights. You know, you read the Constitution. And so we have this kind of idea, you know, what freedom is. And, you know, our idea of freedom is different than what, you know, other people around the earth's idea of freedom is, you know. And, and then it's always been the question, even in this country is, well, are we truly free? Are we really free? Well, everybody has different ideas of what real freedom looks like. You know, some people have real liberal ideas about what freedom is. means. You know, some people have, you know, based on, you know, again, their upbringing and, you know, the,

their place in the country where they, you know, grew up, have different ideas of what, what freedom is and what freedom looks like, you know, so I think you, when we talk about freedom, you know, there's, there's really, there's no freedom scale, right? No one's like made a freedom scale. Like, hey, you know, these people are really free and these people are less free. Well, North Korea would be less free. Yeah, North Korea, a country like that would for sure be, I mean, here in America, you know, like, you know, what's, you know, what's freedom for us, you know, living in America. And so I think if you ask people around the country, you're going to get a whole bunch of different answers because, I mean, I don't think people really actually sit down and think about what freedom is and what it means, you know? They have a couple, they have some ideas like, hey, like, hey, like.

Like, I can buy pornography on any corner store. You know, that's how free we are. You know what I'm free to, you know, cuss and swear at my neighbors and flip off policemen and whatever. And that's how free. And some people, that is freedom. You know, the other people, you know, freedom is, you know, to be able to have access to our electoral system without any sort of, you know, encumbrances. right? You should be able to go and exercise your

democratic right without anybody telling you asking you for an ID or anybody asking you where were you born or you know or any of these different things so you know what I mean that's then that could be one person's idea of freedom you know I think we all have different ideas of what freedom are and so there's no real like

you know like this is this makes us more free and if we don't do this, then we're going to be less free. I think it's all an illusion. Depends on what you, you know, how you view it. Yeah, I mean, I spent some time in Mexico. We live in a pretty free country. Yeah, I mean, I've been to many countries around the world, you know, and I think we live, you know,

but I would say that there are countries that enjoy, you know, certain, even here in Hawaii. Like, I think there's certain freedoms that we enjoy here in Hawaii that you're not going to get in anywhere else in America. You know? Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. Sometimes I wonder, though, like, you know, I've been to Mexico. I've stayed down there. I lived down there for a few months when I was in my 18s and 19s, which is way

in the middle of nowhere. It was pretty free. I could do whatever the fuck I wanted there. Like, there's no cops coming. Like, you could do whatever you wanted there. You know, where here, you know, like I live in an apartment complex and like I have to keep my noise to a minimum. And, you know, there's certain things you can't do here.

but there's certain amenities because of it. But I think it gets back to what you were saying. Like it just depends on definitions of freedom. And in our country, it seems like we're lacking these kind of conversations. Like this would be a great conversation to bring people from all sides together. What does freedom mean to you? You know, if there's some sort of contest where each kid in every class could write an essay, what does freedom mean to you?

Like, it seems to me that there's a lot of things that we could do as a country to bring us together. but there's so much focus on it's being pulled apart. And if I put my tinfoil hat on, maybe it's because negative news gets clicks. Maybe that's where the juice is at. Maybe that's where everybody turns our attention to because it's juicy. But, you know, it just seems that we're focusing on so much of the garbage when there's so much beauty around.

There's so much things that could be. Like we could have these contests to build infrastructure. We could have the XPRIZs. in our country to build up, you know, new ideas, but we don't do that. We take all our money. Like, how many schools have we built in Afghanistan versus how many schools that we've built in Detroit? Like, why are we spending so much money in all these other countries and not in our own

country? Like, we saw all the writing. We saw all the BLM. We see all the proud boys. And I'll posit to you that the proud boys are no different than BLM. Like, they're both groups are pissed off because they don't have anything. and they're blaming each other and the media is pumping it up

and like both groups want the same thing the hippie and the redneck want the same thing they want the government out of their life they want to have their community be awesome they want to have the people around them right I don't think that's true I mean I think when you're looking at like the oathkeepers or the proud boys or whatever I think you're seeing

a group of people that have a very good understanding that the judicial system you know, that the economic system, the political system, they work in favor of them. You know, they're not, these aren't people that are, you know, driving around worrying, you know, that they're going to get pulled over by a police officer and then end up dead, you know, for doing nothing wrong. That typically doesn't happen to those types of people, right? But aren't they worried about their community?

Do you think they're worried about their community? But that's not what the BLM thing was about, right? I don't know. wasn't about like, hey, we have a community here of people that are suffering, which ultimately became, but at first it was, it was a rally around a bunch of young

black men being killed by police officers, right? I mean, that's how it started. Yeah, but what about the dichotomy of like in Chicago, there's been what, like 400 black people have died there? Like, what, the news doesn't ever cover that. They cover

that one, these four white cops killed this black guy. But what about the hundreds of people that are dying every month in Chicago? Like, why don't they cover that? I mean, I think in Chicago they were covering it. But not national. Like when you when you see the hate crimes that happen, and I agree, they're horrendous and they should be covered. But I'm just saying, like, why is it that we put the most controversial things on that? Like, that's so antithetical to building a community, to building a better planet. Well, so in one case, like in Chicago, and I don't live there, but I have read news stories

and seen it on the news where there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of black on black crime, right, that are killing, you know, that are, you know, gang wars or whatever it may be, you know, killing, you know, black people killing black people. This, the thing that makes the news, which is like, you know, unusual, well, it used to be unusual where, you know, police officers, people who are, you know, sworn to uphold the law, you know, who are sworn to serve the community are killing black people, right? That's a lot different than, like, you know, drive-by shootings in south central Los Angeles or in Chicago or in St. Louis or in, you know what I mean, or in Birmingham or whatever,

you know, wherever these things are happening, you know, that's different, right? Like, that's, that's, it's more of a community thing, right? They got to figure out how to fix that, which I link all back to poverty. But we got to fix that and poor and poor education. The other one is, you know, people in positions of authority that are carrying weapons, right? You know, that are, that you actually have to listen to, right? There are laws in this country that say that you have to listen to a lawful order by a police officer. Even if you're innocent, even if whatever you've been stopped for accused of doing or whatever, you didn't do. You still have to do it.

Right. And then people that are dying in those circumstances, that's a tragedy. And so that's what the Black Lives Matter was. It's like they were out there just trying to say, you know, to my understanding, you know, like Black Lives Matter. Not saying that no other lives don't matter, but that Black Lives matter because seemingly it didn't appear to be that way. Black Lives did not matter. Right? So that's how that thing started.

So like, you know, like Oathkeepers, man, who enjoy all of the, you know, privileges of, you know, of being a part of a, you know, of a racial. group that's been in the position of authority in this country since its inception. You know, they're not driving around worried about that. They're not walking around communities worried about police officers stopping them and killing them. Well, I thought oathkeepers were people who served in the government, like the military, the cops, the armed forces. Could be. Yeah, those are the ones, right. But those are not all white people, right?

So those guys are people. There's plenty of people that took an oath of office that aren't white. So I don't know if you can, I don't know if you could say that the oath. the oathkeepers all enjoy the same amount of freedom because I don't think all of them are white right you know I don't really know a lot about the oathkeepers not a group that I pay attention to but all the ones that I see on TV are white you know I don't know are there some ones that are Hispanic or black have you seen any of those yeah I anybody who is a cop anybody who's in the military anybody who's in government is an oathkeeper

because they're the ones that swear an oath to defend the Constitution. I think that that's the idea of an oath keeper. I've only seen the ones that are like on, you know, like sitting in trial right now, you know. The guy with the eye patch and then, you know, a couple other guys that are like, you know, turn states witness against those guys. I don't really have an idea what the oathkeepers are. Maybe I got them confused with like the proud boys or something, but, you know. It's kind of all the same to me, man.

Yeah, I don't know. It seems to me, like, what was your take on January 6th? Did you see that as, like, an insurrection? Like, what was your rundown on that? Like, your ideas. On January 6th? Yeah. Um, I don't know, man.

There's a lot to say about that. I think, I think with, like, the January 6th thing, yeah people showed up i mean you had a president who just lost a free and fair election you know um you know turn into a rabble rouser got a bunch of people to show up to washington dc you know got them all pumped up on you know on videos you know of of him and you know i don't know like there was a bunch of like war type things happening like let's we're getting ready for war his rhetoric and the rhetoric of all the other people who gave speeches, you know, that day, you know, for him and, you know, with him. It all sounded pretty warlike to me.

And he sent those people marching down to the Capitol building, which he said that I'm going to be coming with you, right? So, like, there's intent there. And they were going to stop the process, the democratic process of certifying election. which to me, yeah, that's an insurrection. Have you seen any of this information that's come out about like an FBI agent that was at the front door that was like waving people in? And then when it came, when they rounded up all the people that were so-called insurrectionist, they never went after this guy. And when they brought it to Congress, the Congress said, oh, we're not going to talk about it. And they're like, well, here's a picture of him.

He's an FBI agent. And he was inciting. and who's bringing people into the, who's actually bringing them in. Why is he not being adjudicated? And like, oh, we're not going to talk about that. And so there seems to be like all these holes. And I'm sure in a situation like that,

there is so much that went on and that we're not privy to. But it just seems odd to me. I'm not saying that there weren't people there that went in with the intention of doing harm to senators, which is a huge crime. But I am saying that it seems to me that, A lot of those groups were penetrated the same way the proud boys, the same way BLM. It seems to me that the corruption at the top was almost sort of, you know, it was criminal.

The setup and the way they made it look. Like it just seemed like bullshit to me. Like I see old ladies inside there, like waving flags and you see security guards moving people in. And the one girl that got killed Ashley Babette, like what happened with her? Like, that's pretty crazy to think about. I don't even talk about that. You know, like, there's so much that went on there that we can't even have an honest discussion about it.

Like, you and I are having an awesome discussion about it, but why can't the people sit down in the country? Why can't there be a news outlet or why can't the Congress come out and just have an honest discussion about here's all the information? Like, why can't the people see all the papers? Like, why can't we have this honest discussion about what happened? I think that people, not all people, but I think the majority of people, care enough about building a better

structure, building a better country and could talk about what happened rather than than, you know, rather than just have a craziness. They can't, they can't agree upon the facts. Why? Why? Why can't they? Well, because, like, I mean, um,

there's a lot of people out there that are using what I would call anecdotal evidence to make very thinly structured bullshit arguments over, you know, what happened on that day. And there's a lot of people that you can't have reasonable conversations with when you talk about that, especially, you know, on one side. of that equation you know compared to the other I mean there's a lot of problems with that I mean even like you know like like let's just take it back to this FBI guy

like this has been proven he's an FBI guy yeah yeah without a doubt so without a doubt so the FBI has acknowledged that this guy's an FBI agent yeah and there's what you think you think those people only went into the building

because he was waving them in I think that he was it was part of an op. I think that he was there to set up the insurrection. George, if he wasn't there do you think those people would have gone into the building? I watched thousands of people rush that Capitol building.

And I'm not going to believe for one second that one guy standing there at the door waving people in is the reason why they went in. It was a matter what. All right, Paul. Hey, we got someone joining us, Paul. Let's see what they have to say. Hi, how's it going? Testing.

Hey, hi. We can you, buddy. How's it going, my friend? Cool, cool. So there's, you you got to go back in time. You got to go all the way to the beginning. I mean,

before the universe was even created. You've got to go to the one true creator that created everything. From there,

so my position and my belief, I will share a bit of it. I'm Muslim. And we believe that the first thing God ever created was the pen.

And it wasn't any normal pen. It was a magical pen and this pen spoke. It can verbalize with God and the pen, God commanded the pen to write. And this pen wrote everybody's destiny and all our destinies, I don't know, like, I'm still learning about my religion and I don't want it like, it would be, it would take too long to elaborate. but there's a saying that our destiny is written on our forehead.

I got to research that a bit. So the pen and then we don't know what creations besides what God revealed in his book, which he sent down the Torah first, and the Torah was corrupted by man. because of their desire. And then the Ingeal was sent down. And that too was corrupted by man. And there's evidence of it.

And then the Quran came with the final messenger. We are in the end times. Because if you look at the prophecies and there's no way somebody 1400 years ago can prophesies can prophesize what's happening today verbatim. Like, it's insane. But do you really think that's what's happening? Like, do you think that someone prophesized verbatim what's happening? Isn't it kind of like general?

No, no, because how would somebody, 1400 years ago that's illiterate would know that barefooted bedwinds would compete to build skyscrapers. Well, I'll say this. I don't know, but it seems to me, first off, thank you for coming in, man. It's nice to talk to you.

I would say that interpretation or translation means interpretation. So when you're translating, be it me translating from the Torah or be it someone translating from God, you're interpreting that translation. We lose stuff in interpretation. So when we talk about Bedouins, that may be a different term 1,400 years ago than it is today. What do you think? No, because the Bedouins are the Bedouins.

And I'm not a scholar, but I mean, if I look at an apple, it's an apple. Or if it's described, if I give you a description of something and you see something just like it. But let me add to that. So today, as we're speaking, the Burj Khalifa is the tallest building. Saudi Arabia started building, I think it's like a couple kilometers or something like that. High, high building. And they paused it for some reason. but Kuwait is building is competing and these guys are all bedwinds now let's and this is a minor sign so there are I believe six minor signs and all the minor signs are here and in between the minor signs and the major signs is the Antichrist which we call the Dejal now the Muslims are

debating is the dejal metaphorical? Is it an actual person? I personally think it's both the system with the governments that are running

this democracy, the dollar and these secret societies. But wait, so, okay, I'm getting ahead of myself. Let me go back. Like I said, we need to go back. So God created all these creations. The angels are made out of light, but they don't have free will. They're made out of light.

They don't have free will, so they have to obey God automatically. God made another creation made out of smokeless fire, which is the gin. This is what people call demons, ghosts, aliens, you can give them all these different names, but they can go from matter to energy and from energy back to matter. And they have free will. The devil, he was so pious

that he got to worship among the angels because of his piety and because he had free will. He made the choice to obey God. So he got a higher rank. That's why people think that the devil is a fallen angel. Really, he's not. He's a different creation that got the rank of an angel. When God created Adam, before the soul was blown into him,

Adam was laying there without a soul. And the devil circled around him. And right before that, there was a big war between the angels and the Jins on earth because they were causing corruption on the earth. They were murdering each other and the devil led the war with Michael and the other, Mikhail, with the other angels, that took out the corruption on earth. earth of the Jens and that's how he got his rank, etc. So now there's this new creation and he's looking at this. He's like, what is this creation? At first he's scared because it's a dead body.

It looks like a dead body and a dead body looks pretty scary, you know, without a soul blown into it. So he's looking and he's like, what is this, you know? The first thing that struck his heart is jealousy. He said, did God create something? thing that's going to love him more than me and obey him more than me and he has free will. So this is where, and we believe he became the first racist because he said, I'm better than him. I'm made out of smokeless fire and he's made out of dirt, clay, and water.

So out of honor and respect, God commanded that the angels and ebless to prostrate out of honor and respect, not worship, but out of honor and respect to worship to Adam. The angels automatically, they have free will, but the devil said no. I will not prostrate to anything other than my creator. He is not worthy of my prostration, only you are. So God commanded him a few more times, I think twice or once more. And then he got banished. So the symbolism is all like, you know, if you sit down and do your research, which people don't have time for.

You're asking this question, why can't people agree with each other? Because people don't know how to dialogue. They don't know how to disagree with somebody without hating them, without automatically dismissing them. So you got to remember there's a hidden enemy that's against us humans,

we're all brothers and sisters. We all come from a mother, from one mother and father, which is Adam and Eve. And they weren't like us. They were 60 feet high. So he gets banished. And Adam is created. The soul is blown into him.

And the first thing Adam does, he sneezes at two. and that was his soul trying to leave the body but then God and the angels they taught him God taught him the name of all his creations he says this is water this is angel this is a bird this is you know everything he gave him all the knowledge once he gave him all the knowledge he gave him his partner he made

from his rib, Eve, and he said, you, this is your paradise. You can have anything you want, but stay away from that. He didn't say don't eat from this tree. He said, don't even like look in its direction, like stay away from this tree. So the reason the devil is symbolized with the snake and a few other animals is because when he was banned, vanished, he tried sneaking back into heaven. And he went and asked every animal to let him in. And every animal said, no, get away from me, except the snake. So we don't know if he turned into a snake or he climbed into the mouth of the snake. And he went on the tree and he tempted Eve. That's why they say women. are the problem. Like, they always start the problem. So,

she tempted Eve, have the apple. You know, if you have this apple, you have all the knowledge that God has and beyond that. And you can live forever and for eternity. She ate it, tempted. Then she convinced Adam to have it. Now, this tree, this apple, is it a simple? Did the devil have sex with Eve?

Was that the temptation? And then convinced Adam and they all had sex with each other or whatever? Because that's what they say in Hollywood. They have these orgies and they do diabolical things. So anyways, then once they cut, Then their private parts, they covered their private parts because they were ashamed. They felt shame, right? I, you know, so, wait.

Yeah, yeah. So they're private. And then God's wondering why their private parts are covered. And then he knew, right? He goes, you guys, he knew what was happening. So, the leaf, sorry, it's just so much. You got to elaborate so much on so many things in order for a person to understand. I appreciate it.

The clothing, the clothing they were covered with, so they both had a crown, Adam and Eve. They had a crown on top of their head. They weren't the same. They had different crowns, but they were crowns of, like, nobility and honor and stuff. It had all these different kinds of jewels, diamonds, and flowers and all this stuff, and their clothes was layered with, like, silk and different types of clothing. And the smell of heaven and all this stuff. So now they're in trouble because they disobeyed God.

They ate from the tree, whatever that means. And the devil got caught from the snake. So he got banished. But the devil is so, because he's been around so long, he's very clever, this devil. He's very smart. So right away, he prostrated and he made a prayer to God. He said, let me live until judgment day. Let me have power over this new creation.

Let me flow through their veins. So God said, not only will I do that. For every son and daughter of Adam and Eve, I will attach a devil to them as a twin. So you have a twin I have a twin We all have a twin that's evil That we don't see

He's a gin He's in the unseen world There's a world that's parallel To ours on this earth And you can't be a Muslim Unless you believe in this unseen world And I've seen a gin before I'll save that for a different story

I was 14 and I was in juvenile hall And it's crazy man If we have enough time, I'll save it for that. But I'll try and wrap it up here. So now they are, so Adam overhears the devil. I hope I'm not boring you guys with this, you know. So Adam overhears the devil and he said, God, you're going to give him. Oh, yeah.

So every son and daughter of Adam and Eve has a devil attached to them, which is their twin. And it's called the Kareen. We all have a Kareen. So this Kareen whispers and tells us to do evil. So when you get an evil thought in your mind, which everybody does. And if a single human being that comes and tells me that they've never had to, a bad thought. They are the biggest liar. So Adam overheard this and he said, God, you're going to give him this much power over me and my offspring. So he did the same. He prostrated and he prayed.

He said, protect me. So God said, I will, for every son and daughter you have, I will attach an angel to whisper only to do good. So that's where all your good thoughts come from. Now, he said, not only that, I will put an angel in front of you. I will put an angel behind you, the angel on your left, and an angel on your right. The one on your right will write down all your good deeds. Because we talk about this book that's going to appear on Judgment Day. What is this book?

This book, it writes down every cent and cent that you spend, how you spend it, your word, what you say, how you say, your actions, what you do, how you do it. and but before he uh and it's multiplied by 10 times for each good deed the angel on the left writes down all your bad deeds and it uh before so when you commit a sin and you stop and you think to yourself i messed up oh shit excuse my language oh crap so the one on on the left will the angel on the left will wait an X amount of time. I can't remember how long it is, but it'll give you an X amount of time to repent. And it gets written down as one good deed.

And if you repent, it's basically doesn't count. It'll be recorded, but it won't go on the scale. Because there's a scale on Judgment Day where things get weighed. your good deeds, bad deeds, all that stuff, to determine where you end up. And this could be hell itself, or purgatory, or we could all be in our grave. This could be our grave itself. So I'll stop, and I'm pretty sure there are questions. So now, from there to where were we?

And then they get banished down to earth. And when he banishes everybody down to earth, I believe they don't land on the same spots. So that's why they say Garden of Eden was between Iraq and like Sri Lanka or something like that. So one landed in Iraq, one landed in Sri Lanka. The devil landed somewhere. And they say that there is not one inch of a. earth that you can find that the devil hasn't put his forehead on and prostrated and ask God for forgiveness. And then X amount of animals got kicked out too and everybody cried.

So when the devil cried, it created all the bad creations like reptiles and stuff like that. when Adam and them cried, it created like flowers and flower to make bread. And what's that animal? The peacock. That's awesome. I'm going to cut you off here. I'm going to make some room for some other people to jump in, man. But I really appreciate you taking time to come in and chat with us for a while.

Yeah. So I will, hey, thank you very much. I appreciate it. See you. Bye-bye. Nice. Paul, you there. Yeah.

pretty interesting right like i'm glad hi came in and kind of gave us the breakdown on that what's your take on maybe people not being able to get along with each other as something we were born with i think it's learned you think it's a learned behavior yeah i think it's learned it makes sense it it seems so so in your idea you think that what do you mean it's learned like isn't it instinct like maybe high's right like maybe it is the fact that we're both born to disagree. We're born to rebel. Well, you know, how many people do you know that don't know how to communicate properly? Don't know how to impress themselves properly.

I, you know, my situation, right? Like everything comes back to like your personal, you know, experience in life. I come from a family where people don't communicate very well. Right? No one ever learned how to sit down. and have a conversation, you know, that was unemotional. You know, when it came, you know, of course, we talked about a lot of things that we laughed about and whatever,

but when it came down to, like, disagreements, you know, how do you prevent those things from becoming, you know, emotional? And in my family, you know, that just didn't happen. They usually ended up, and not like yelling and screaming at each other, but, you know, there was definitely, you know, aggressive, you know, energy within the room, within the conversation. And so I think that's where you learn, right? Like you learn, you know, as a little kid when you listen to your family members,

you know, have disagreements, that these are the way these disagreements are solved, which is by, you know, all the lowest forms of communication that, you know, you and I have discussed many times. And I think you then have to unlearn those things and learn a different way to, you know, communicate. Yeah, something I read a while back and that when I grew up learning how to communicate, you know, one thing I never saw my parents do is make up. And like, that's something they talk about in child psychology or in all kinds of books

and different, different sections of wherever you're looking. But, you know, a lot of times we as adults will fight in front of our kids and then we never make up in front of our kids. That's usually something that's done in the bedroom or you're outside or you get to fight and the kids see you leave, but they'll never see you come back. So, you know, I agree that there's all kinds of ways in which we communicate that or fail to communicate that gets passed on. And then you can continue to see this, you know, God forbid there's abuse.

Abuse is a form of communication, right? Like might makes right. We got an interesting from, here's a comment. See what you think about this one, Paul. To cure ignorance is to question. What do you think? Yeah, you know, like people should be seekers. I believe that to be true.

You know, where you're getting your answers from, that's a whole other conversation. Yeah, or where can you get answers from? You know, there's a lot of places where it's difficult to find the right answer. If you're born into a sect of an odd church somewhere, you know, or if you're born on that colt and Molokai, or you're born on some cult or even, you know, some maybe certain branches of Christianity or, you know, certain branches of other religions,

you are a victim to the very ideology that holds you. You're only allowed to know what you're allowed to know. So you may not even know what question to ask, right? Right. You know, and that goes back to the, you know, like what is freedom. Yeah, it's freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose, right? I learned that from my friend Joan Baez. Did you?

Yeah, you know, like this whole thing about like conflict resolution. You know, and I think I think that's interesting what you said about about parents fighting in front of kids, but not making up in front of kids. I think that's, I think, yeah, you're going to have you thinking about that. And again, you know, like actually how to sit down and and be able to have to sit down and be able to have a discussion, especially within the family unit, you know, when people are disagreeing that, you know, so it doesn't get violent, it doesn't get angry, it doesn't get, you know, out of control. And so I think, I think that we all have, you know, a lot of work to do in that, from my own experience, you know, it's like, I come, you know, like my family's kind of an interesting

situation but um you know i i had to quickly learn how to like you know stand my ground in family you know and and then being really confused as to why like you know within within disagreements why i could never seem they didn't not only just me but it never seemed like we got anywhere you know yeah um like it was on everything just went unresolved i mean everything right there was there is no resolution. It was, it was, you know,

a disagreement. And then, you know, then rabbit holeing and deflecting and all kinds of weird shit. And then, and then there'd be like a truce. That's all there would be. You know,

there'd be a truth. So like, I'm not wrong. And you're not wrong. And we're all right. You know what I mean? And then, you know,

and then everybody just kind of went, went about their business. And, you know, there's real problems with that. And I think you're, you know, I don't think that my family

is much different than a lot of families in America. And that's how they resolve things by not resolving them. And so you're seeing that reflected in society today. You know? It's incredible. Like, I've been really taken aback,

which is why, you know, I've really enjoyed, like, connecting with you and the other people that we do the psychedelic roundtable with. Because it's refreshing to have this, you know, discussions where people disagree with this, at least, you know, people are making points,

and there's some sort of resolution, you know, I like that. Yeah, I do too. I really enjoy getting to learn from other people. And in so many conversations, I get to see both sides. Maybe it's the devil and the angel high was talking about. On one side, I get to see people with whom I have so much in common. And I'm like, hey, that happened in my family or, oh, my gosh, that happened to me. And on the other side, it's like, whoa, that's never happened to me.

How'd you deal with that? You know, and in some ways, like, I see the Internet as this great equalizer, or even though we're not in the same room, we can communicate across long distances instantaneously and solve problems, at least in a language aspect, right? So, you know, I see. Yeah. What do you mean? Because you said it a couple of times, the great equalizer. What do you mean by that? Well, if you go to a, like, let's say we go downtown and there's like the town crier, we go down.

town and someone has a microphone. Like a comedian's a good example. If you go to a comedy show, the comedian is the person there that is controlling the room. He's got the microphone. He's got the loudest voice. And so when I talk about the great equalizer, here's two guys from two different islands in the South Pacific talking to, you know, apparently six people. So it's maybe not a thousands of people, but over a period of time, it could be thousand. Are you talking about us?

Yes, me and you. We're in the North Pacific. I'm sorry. I am mistaken sometimes. Yeah. But will you get my idea? Like, you know, we have the ability. Like I could call Marco who's in Gibraltar and we could be talking to him about things that are happening there.

Or we have the ability to dispel rumors if we know people in the right areas. So I see it as. as a microphone in which we too can control, do some crowd control, or at least we can have our voices heard. And in some ways, I think that that is what some people are worried about when they think about censorship. Like, hey, my voice, I am getting my voice, my voice is being silenced. I no longer have the ability to say what I'm going to say.

And so that's what I kind of meant by the great equalizer, right? I think now more than ever, we're on the cusp of the world changing. And that's why it's so crazy. I think we're kind of taking on a new form. And that means our government's taking on our new form. Us as individuals are taking on new forms. Education's taking on a new form. And so, like, I think that the Internet is this thing that it's helping us move through the transformation, if that makes sense.

Okay. Well, so, I mean, I understand what you're saying about the great people. Right. I mean, I get it. But I don't know. I don't agree that that's the right. thing. You know, there are, there are facts and there are people who are clearly right in, in, you know, in a lot of things that are being, you know, shoved into a corner and told to

shut up because some guy who's sucking on decel batteries in his mom's basement has something to say about that, who's totally oblivious or blind to, you know, the topic at hand. And I think that's the problem is where we're looking for equality. Like, oh, we, you know, like you have people who are clearly experts in fields. It's like, it's like I was telling you about that comedian, right? Who is like, we have people who are D minus students that are asking for peer-reviewed scientific evidence that these things actually work. These people couldn't, wouldn't understand this peer-reviewed scientific paper, you know,

if you tried to read it to them and translate it to them at the same time, they still wouldn't get it, right? So there's two, to me, like what the internet has done is it's given too much of that. it's too much towards the equal, meaning that we have experts and they should be listened to. And if you're not an expert in these certain things, then you should just go away. You shouldn't be promoted to some equal level

or being given as equally a big as a microphone as the people who are experts. But that's part of the problem with what's happening, at least in this country today, is that these people that don't know about a lot of things are out there going, yeah, I'm being sent. answered because, you know, and I should be heard. It's like, no, you shouldn't be heard because what you say is destructive. What you say, it's like, let's talk about Kanye, right? Okay.

You said, hold no water. What you're saying is purely hypothetical. What you're saying is purely conspiratorial, right? So no, you're, your mind going to get off and let the other people that know about these things lead the discussion. Well, I would, I would push back on, I would, I would take it back a little bit and say if we look where Kanye came from like if we if none of us are him none of ever met him and none of us know what it is he's been up against I think what he is saying is his truths and everybody's truths are different and I'm not saying that some you know there are no real truth there are things that are true enough and I I give him sort of some leeway because I don't think,

I think maybe he's a product of his environment. He's telling you what he thinks is true in his world. And I don't know that, what's that? And that's fine. Like, he can tell us what he thinks is true in his world. Right, right. But that doesn't mean he deserves the giant microphone to do it. It doesn't mean be an equal to the people who are actually speaking true,

not truth that just pertains to them. You know, like Kanye's uni scientific. I don't even know what that means. What does uniscientific mean? Science of one. That's funny, man. Right? And so, you know, I don't think that he deserves the microphone.

And when you start to use your giant microphone for your, you know, and I've referred to him as, you know, he's got a constituency of one. You know, he's a protester for one. You know, he's unycientific. He's, you know, his science only pertains to one. You know, that you're going to get shut off because what you're saying doesn't pertain to anybody else but you. And what you're saying is obnoxious. See, I disagree. I think he's getting shut off because he's dangerous.

And that's where I draw the parallels to him and civil rights leaders. I think a lot of civil rights leaders were either murdered or were shut down because they're dangerous to a certain group of people. And that's what I see Kanye is. I see him saying things that are dangerous. And that's why I see a civil rights movement being built around him. Like there's people that identify with him and with emotion and with recession and with a big microphone come big movements. And those are the parallels I'm drawing. Yeah.

Well, no one's going to kill Kanye West. It's not worth it. I said that last week. I hope nobody kills anybody. And I know you do too. I'm just saying that like. You know what I mean? Like you're like these are people like you're you talk about Dark King who was assassinated, right?

If if if Kanye West were, God forbid, were to ever, you know, be killed, they wouldn't call it an assassination. They'd call it a murder. Why would they do that? Because he's not important. He's not saying. It depends on who called it a murder. It depends on which group called it how it got labeled, right? Because if we know, George Floyd was he murdered or was he, you know, was he executed?

it depends on how you label it and like that that's where the movement comes like that's where the ground swell of a movement can come from but you know what i'm saying though george like you're talking about a person who you know who actually had truth and fact on his side versus somebody who's just out there saying a bunch of obnoxious stuff well and that's what you're doing because there's no truth to anything that he's saying now see i disagree there like and and maybe like i've been reading some of the stuff that he said. He recently posted this tweet from the doctor. Do you remember him talking about the doctor that drugged him? Did you remember hearing that part? Yeah. Okay, so he posted a tweet from the doctor that said, quote, Kanye. Okay, I'm not going to, I'm going to paraphrase because I actually don't have it in front of me.

But it was something along the lines of this, and I'll do my best to get it as close as possible. It says, Kanye, you can come and sit and talk to me, keep away your silly ideas about things that aren't. true. Don't ever cuss at me. And you can come and talk to me. Or I can take you, have you committed, fill you up with drugs again like I did last time, and make sure that the play dates with your kids are very uncomfortable. That's a direct threat from a doctor who is insinuating that he previously drugged him up, which backs up Kanye's claims pretty clear. So this doctor said this? Yes. You're reading a quote from the doctor. I'm reading a tweet from Kanye that was supposedly off his phone. So I mean, take that with a grain of salt. Yeah. Am I supposed to take Kanye at face value? Because

like if history is proven, I cannot. Yeah. I mean, like I can't confirm the, the legitimacy of his tweet. But I'm just saying that, I'm trying to back up his, his truth. Like, what if that is his truth? I mean, what if that was true? Would that change your mind at all about him? I mean, come on, man. Like, I'm serious, seriously. Like, we're going to have that conversation about what if this is something that this guy has on a phone and text form is true or not. Like, I'm not going down that whole, George, man. I can't do it.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. And this is like I say it. Like, I'm not, I don't, I'm not, I would tell Kanye, you know, come with the facts. You know what I mean? Like, tell me where the truth lies. And like some referencing some tweet or text message that he got from his doctor as being factual. You know what I mean?

I'm not listening to that. He had a lot of crazy things to say about Jewish people. And what I want to know is like which of those things are factual? That's what I want to know. Like where are the facts here? Where's the conspiracy, Kanye? Because you laid it out as being one. You know what I mean?

connect the dots. And I told you before, George, I'm a two-dot guy. I'll listen to crazy things. I'll listen to all kinds of crazy things, George. I listen to you. Yeah, well, and then I- Like attracts like, water seeks its own level. Right, yeah.

It's like, yeah, I'm not saying I'm a lot. You know what I mean? So like you, like the rigid one. Let's get it closer. Let's connect some dots here and see what happens. And I'll even listen to that if it sounds like, you know, that there's some truth behind there and that there's some evidence to back it up. But most of the time, George, when you ask them, okay, we're going to make that leap,

we're going to freaking connect the dots right here. It's going to be brilliant. And then that never happens, right? Because it just falls apart. It's flimsy and it's, you know, the evidence isn't there. And nothing these guys say much like Kanye makes any sort of sense of all. It's just a bunch of gibberish that's, you know, wrapped in a riddle, you know what I mean? And served up to the American people. And, and people take it seriously. That's not Dr. King. that that's the exact opposite of dr king right dr king really scared people the powers that be you read jad edgar hoover's book no okay well okay let me back track that there's a book called jadger hoover it's 3,000 something pages but talks a lot about like the coin to pull program and all the rest

of that stuff and it talks about all these guys throughout history i mean you know jadger hoover was like the longest serving director of the FBI and the history of America, right? He served in 24 to 1973. Like, that guy was in office for a long time, and a lot of those things that he set up are still in play at the FBI. And one of the things that

people that were close to Hoover and, you know, that worked with him, that were related to him, Dr. King scared the shit out of that guy. Because why? Because he wasn't out there freaking making wild conspiracy theories about Jewish people. or white people or the government,

he was talking about things that were real, that were dedicated, that had been, that had been confirmed and were happening in real time as he was speaking about them. And then a whole host of laws, and I named them, everything that happened during reconstruction that's written,

everything that happened, you know, during the Jim Crow era that is written, you know, all of these laws that were in mostly these southern states. and a few northern states as well. You know? And he was speaking about them in a way that scared people.

And that's why he ended up dead. No one's going to fucking kill Kanye. I hope they don't. But there's no reason to. Right? He's guys doing a really good job at burying himself. And people that are in power don't give a flying, you know what,

about what this guy's saying. The only ones that care about it are, you know, the companies, the media companies, social media, you know, they care about it. Yeah, it's clicks, right? You know, yeah, it's clicks, like you said, for sure. You know, so can we stop with the comparisons? Like, like, you know, like there's going to be some sort of civil rights movement. Because what's the movement against Jewish people?

How are you going to, what do you stand to gain from that? What I'm saying is this. Like, I am in no way, shape, or form comparing the content of what Kanye says. But you have to. But you have to. But you have to. You do. I don't have to.

No. Because one is very powerful and one of them is very weak. If you're going to make an argument, George, that a civil rights movement can be born of this, then you've got to understand that Kanye is not inspiring people emotionally. Dr. King. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, Kanye sells.

hundreds of, he sells out stadiums. The guy's got 30 million followers. You're telling me he doesn't inspire people? That guy is 30 million followers. Are you kidding me? That guy inspires millions of people around the world. You said yourself, if you were a younger man that you may have, you yourself may have been taken victim by some of the things.

He said, if you were a younger man, that's a quote from you. So to tell me he doesn't inspire people, I think is a bit of a reach, right? No, he's not in first, no, I do think it's a bit of a reach, you know, like, first of all, most people, young people, and I'm not going to, I can't say most, but like, of the ones that I knew didn't have like my ideas or my thoughts, right? Because of my upbringing, you know, and that the fact that I'm biracial and, you know, and had, you know, had seen the world through a little bit different lens than a lot of people that I grew up with. Right. And so. My idea about what was happening in America was a lot different than most of the other kids that I grew up in my neighborhood idea about what America was. And Kanye is in no way, like, going to be able to inspire people to go do anything other than download something from Spotify. He's one of the greatest producers of music. He's one of the greatest rappers. He took fashion by someone.

Like to say, like, the guy has the ability to inspire. Like, he's done it. He's proved it on multiple fronts. Like, I'm not, again, I'm not saying that his ideas about civil rights are anywhere near that of Dr. King's, but to say that he doesn't have command of an audience and can inspire people to do things. I think Jim Morrison at concerts told people to rush the stage and he was incited for a riot. Like, imagine.

imagine Kanye being at a sold out show at a stadium of 100,000 people and then telling people, like telling them, hey, here's what I think. Here's what you should do. He gives sermons on Sundays. Like he does inspire people. He does. I'm not saying it's right, but he does have the command and inspiration to speak to large groups of people. And you and I know as public speakers, if you can command an audience, it's almost like a

trans when you can like look at what jim jones did look at what charles manson did if you can be a charismatic speaker and you could argue that the tone the rhymes and the way conier raps is a similar way of getting people to to act a certain way or see a certain vision you know people in groups in mobs do crazy things and if you're a guy on stage that has command of a audience of 50,000 people you can quite possibly get some points across whether they're true or not. Like that can be a movement. I'll go in and I'll start following Kanye West tonight and then have 30 million one. And then, you know, but I will tell you that I'm not the only one that's following

him, you know, that doesn't believe in anything that he says. Oh, without a doubt, without a doubt. And I'm not saying everybody does, but a lot of people probably do. I mean, I know when I was a kid, like I had a different perspective on what I thought was cool and what I thought was a thought, authoritative and like I wanted to rebel and you know I was at the free Peltier concert and like I was raging against the machine and even though I didn't thoroughly understand what anybody was truly saying or understand the politics behind it I was caught up and being a youth you know and look at men here's another thing to think about usually it's men of fighting age that aren't married that tend to cause a lot of problems right and who are the who are a lot of the people

people that listen to rap music. I don't know the demographics, but it seems to me that the content of music you listen to changes by the age that you are. And it just seems to me that that's a demographic that could support a movement. You know what? Here's another thing too, I was thinking. So if we look at the world in a circular motion or we know that history doesn't repeat,

but it rhymes. It seems to me that like there was Farrakhan as a black leader. There was, you know, there was MLK and then there was Jesse Jackson and then there was Farrakhan. And like, where is the new black leader? Like if we look at history repeating and coming around and picking up a great black speaker here, a great one here, where is the great black speaker for this generation? And are they looking, are, is there a hole to be filled? I don't know.

You know, I'm, like I said, you know, I'm not black. I mean, I don't, you know, I don't, I'm not really up to date on, you know, like the new black leadership. And maybe it's because, you know, there's not one being promoted or there's not one out there that's powerful enough to, like, you know, really grab people's attention. I don't, I mean, people look at, I don't know, I'll throw out a name here, like Dr. Umar Johnson. I'm not, I'm not familiar with him. Um, you know, I mean, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I, really don't know who's if you know what about eric dyson maybe he could be one hey i like that yeah that guy's pretty intelligent yeah super smart he's a great speaker talk about oratory

like that yeah that guy can captivate a room um brock obama brock obama yeah good so you're naming some yeah yeah right yeah i don't i don't know you know um you know again like you know my my attention with like you know african-american culture you know to like the people that are more like radical. Here's one from our friend, hi. He says they will never let. Wait, what is it? Yeah.

I don't know. Do you think that there are, is there suppression for different groups? Paul, like you've read a lot of about like Huey and all these dissidents. Like, do you think that there are forces or the government that stops or won't allow a certain race to have leaders in this country? Man, George. How about some easy questions? Shit.

It's Saturday night, man. I don't know. We're going for it. God, it's just like, you know, shit. I have a lot of thoughts about that. Some of them are probably wildly unpopular. Awesome. Let's hear them. A little much for the second.

psychedelic roundtable. But, you know, I think that there's some truth to that. You know, at least history has shown that there's been truth to that. You know, like as far as today, I think, you know, today, you know, it's a little different. I think, you know, when I say earlier about, like, identifying with groups even, you know, or cultures, you know, even, you know, that didn't originate from the same place you originated from. You know, I think that's kind of what we're drifting more towards like classes. Yeah.

You know, I think for a long time, you know, and it's still true today that, that, you know, black people were a part of a certain class of people. And let's call them the have nots. And I think that, you know, to, you know, there's always been scary to people when you start giving people, you know, from that group a voice. You know, I also said earlier that I think, you know, just trying to maintain status quo. And I think that, I believe that to be true. And so any disruption to that, no matter what the race is, you know, the culture or the background, the sexual orientation, you know, the gender identity or whatever, any threat to that will be met with severe consequences.

You know, I think, you know, I think, God, George, you know, maybe we should. You should warn me when you're going to ask me a question like that. Well, I didn't know I was going to ask it until I thought about it, which was like instantaneously. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's been, you know, it's true. Yeah, I mean, I believe it to be true. I mean, I could elaborate, but I'm not going to, you know. Yeah, I don't want to.

I have an idea about power that I've been reading about. So I'm going to read this little paragraph. It's a pretty, see what you guys think here. Everybody listening. And thanks for everybody that are chiming in with the comments. It's super awesome. Power commands highly different modes of appearance. Its most direct and immediate form finds expression as the negation of freedom.

This enables power holders to impose their will against the will of those subject to power by violence, if need be. However, and this is, that is the power that we have been up against. as citizens, as a culture. We have been up against the state which holds a monopoly on violence, and they allow for, you know, they have the monopoly on violence. So what this book is arguing now is this idea of smart power. It's this transition from the state into this new kind of power. Power that relies on violence does not represent power of the highest order.

The mere fact that another will manages to, form and turn against the power holder attests to the latter's weakness. Wherever power does not come into view at all, it exists without question. That kind of gets us into the idea of conspiracies, but it's true, right? Wherever power does not come into view, that power exists without question. And it begs the question to me, when you look at our government, when you look at the senators, when you look at the congressman and even the president and even these people in positions like,

you know, your governor, all these people, they are beholden to the lobbyists. And the lobbyists are conglomerations of multinational corporations. It seems to me that corporations right now are the ones that hold the power in the majority of countries. With the exception of maybe some of the countries we're fighting hardest against, be it China and Russia, These seem to be more autocratic countries.

They seem to be the countries that are holding the power in the nation state, where the United States is not so much a nation like we think it is. It's owned and paid for by the multinational corporations. And what we're seeing in our country is the privatization of everything. That's what I'm thinking. Well, I mean, you know, the power that's not within. view, that makes me think about the bureaucrats, you know, the people that are going to be, you know, at the Department of Education, no matter what administration is there and they're,

you know, very high-level people, you know, the people that are going to be in the Department of Defense, no matter what political party or which administration is in power, they're still going to be there. To me, those are the people that, like, they run the country and they're not beholden to anybody except for, you know, their immediate boss who only is, who's really only, you know, setting, you know, kind of a guideline as to how the, the, this particular part of this administration is going to move forward in the four years that I'm in power. But basically, you know, things are, are, are run the same. And it's usually the bureaucrats that have been there, you know, that are maintaining status quo. Yeah. What do you think of,

about like when I think of finance and I think about the bureaucrats like I think of these weird labels like minister of finance like it's so weird how they've taken money and religion and kind of tied them together like what is a minister of finance you know I on a similar note I'm thinking about Ben was it Ben Burnett no it wasn't it was Alan Greenspan during the 08 breakdown Alan Greenspan is hauled in front of Congress and he's in he's questioned Alan what happened? And he goes, well, it turns out my theory about economics was flawed. Like the entire country breaks down. Millions of people lose their pensions. Like people lose their homes. People lose everything. And here's this one guy that's like, yeah, sorry, I made a mistake. And there's no real

consequences for him. I could understand why you wouldn't want someone who is controlling the money to be subject to harsh penalties so that he doesn't make bad decisions. But how do we I mean, there should be some penalties, right? Like if you crash an entire system, should you get to walk away Scott free with a bonus? Well, I mean, we're talking about economics. And although there is, you know, somewhat of a science behind economics,

it's not a perfect science. Yeah. And so, you know, like if you understand that part of it, then it's hard to really hold people accountable. You know, and I think what he said was perfect. You know, it's like my theory. of economics was flawed, you know? And I think what he said was this particular piece of my theory of economics is flawed. I don't think Alan Greenspan would have said that his whole theory of economics is flawed. But nothing's a science. I mean, and we hold other people to accountability when their ideas are flawed. Like if a cop has a flawed idea of what put their knee on someone's neck, like that guy goes to prison and rightfully so. So why not someone else who puts, other people in danger.

Well, because that, you know, you know, because police officers shouldn't be doing that, right? And there's rules against them doing stuff like that for how long they can do it. And how, you know what I mean? There's a bunch of things that, you know, actually determine what a police officer is and is not allowed to do, you know, whereas you're talking about the chairman, you know, the Fed chair. Isn't he more dangerous than a police officer, though?

Like, he can, he can hurt millions of people. He could. that you know he could but like I don't look at as him as being you know him or her as being a danger you know I mean these are people that are out there trying to perform a job you know hopefully you have to believe to the best of their ability you know and our mistakes gonna be made yeah and then people lost their pensions and you know I could you could probably argue that it was more than just that more than you know Alan Greenspans you know

flawed theory of economics. But, you know, these things aren't all the same. You know what I mean? Like, you know, it's like these comparisons are, to me, are like not comparable. Yeah, it just, it just brings up, you know, I guess everything's 20, 20 in hindsight. And it's easy to look back on the things that have happened and be a Monday morning quarterback and see this pain. But, you know, I think it's worth talking about. I think it's worth discussing.

And I don't have the answers. And do you like how I'm trying to make you force you to defend the Fed? That's pretty awesome, right? Well, I don't think I'm not really defending the Fed. I'm just, I'm defending, like, you know, people. You know, this is, it doesn't matter, like, in what position you're in, you know, people make mistakes. Yeah. I mean, that's just what happens.

But no, I mean, we're not going to get into, like, my ideas of the Federal Reserve, George. You don't want to go. But, you know, so I look at Allen, like what you were saying, it's just like, yeah, people make mistakes. That's what happens. And sometimes, you know, the results of those mistakes are minimal. And sometimes the result of those mistakes are massive. And, yeah, and that just kind of has the way it. is you know um you know it's like politicians right it's like oh you got a bunch of people out there

that are like we need a term limit politicians well we have term limits their elections and then you know they're like oh well you know they shouldn't be getting like you know medical and they shouldn't be getting you know all these bonuses and and you know and their kids shouldn't be able to go to college for free and all the rest of the stuff and you know they shouldn't be making as much money as they do And, you know, my voice view is like it should be the opposite. They should be getting more because we can't live in a society where, you know, where we're only the wealthy can govern, you know. Yeah.

And, you know, and so I would say, you know, like with the Allen Greenspan situation is, is, yeah, you know, whereas, you know, there was no consequences to that. I would say, yeah, because we need smart people who are going to use their minds and make the best decisions possible and not think about if it all goes terribly wrong. Sometimes, you know, there are positions people hold, you know, here in America that, you know, demand, you know,

somebody that is bold to make those decisions. They're all not easy. These aren't easy things. And I don't want somebody who's riddled with fear about like, what could happen if I do this and what could happen if I do that, thinking about all those things. you know, before they make, you know, a decision.

I'd rather somebody in that position just goes with what they think, what they believe in, what they know to be true, and then make the decision. Yeah, but let me ask you this. Like, it seems to me, like in an earlier part of the conversation, we were talking about the African-American and the minorities in the country being subjected to, like, the wealthy white people. And isn't that still the same? Like, don't you think that the government is still run by like an almost aristotle?

If they are the wealthiest people that are in charge, like, why would they care about anybody that makes less money than that? Like, isn't it just a machine to make profit? Like, it seems to me that what we have seen over the last 20 years since the crash of 08, regardless of it was orchestrated or if there was some sort of corruption in there, it seems that what we have seen since then is just like this giant sucking sound that's been pulling money out. It's like the greatest transfer of wealth and the history of recorded time has happened in the last 10 years. And they're just sucking money from the very bottom and it's being funneled right to the very top. I don't, you know, it's hard to believe that that is not orchestrate. I mean, I don't believe it to be orchestrated. Why not?

Well, because of all the reasons that I outlined earlier and this is about people just being people and people going home and, you know, and facing their families and wanting to get the new car for their wife or their, kids or wanted to take that vacation and wanting to do it's like human nature you know i mean if you're in a giant mansion and you have like three range rovers and you have a house in four different continents don't you think at some point in time you got to ask the question like when is enough enough i mean i think i would i mean i'm not in that spot but i think that as a human being at some point in time when you're stepping over homeless bodies downtown and you have so much like i got to think like you got to start thinking maybe I should be doing more for the community than just trying to make money for me and my family.

Yeah, that's true. You know, but I was having this conversation with my neighbor yesterday about like him wanting to, he's like, man, should I go like down and volunteer at like the food bank and like, you know, and dish out food for people around, you know, the holidays time, you know, I want to be able to give back to the community. I want to try to make things better. I see a large growing population of homeless people here on Maui, and I just don't know what to do.

He's like, and I'm looking into it, and I just don't know where I can help. You know, so there's a lot of people out there that I'm sure would like to do some things, but they just don't know how to do it. You know, they don't know where to start. They don't know who to call. They don't know, you know, what they can do,

other than, you know, like, yeah, I'm going to go buy a bunch of cheeseburgers for a bunch of homeless people and then hand them out on the streets, which is, you know, which is, you know, that would be good. But so many people just don't know how to help. And I'm, unless you're referring about, you're talking about the politicians that are the wealthy ones

with the houses on four different continents. I like to know what those continents are. But like, you know, everyday wealthy people, I think some of those people just don't know how to do it. And I'm not making excuses for them, but, you know, my neighbor's not the first one to tell me what he told me yesterday about not knowing how to like really get out there and make a difference in people's lives.

Yeah. Like, I don't know how to do it. I mean, my idea of making, you know, people's lives better is providing more organic food. Yeah. You know? That's a great way to do it. But I've never given it away, you know? And my theory on it's like, so people look at me and they're like, yeah, really good, Paul.

Like, your argument is that you provide protein, right? Like, you're bringing more protein to the food market. And I say, yeah. And they're like, well, you're bringing like some of the most expensive protein in the world to the food market. So who's that benefit? It's like, yeah, it's true. You know, but hopefully, you know, that, you know, the more that we bring onto the market, you know, organic proteins, that more will become available to people. I don't know if that's true, you know.

But so when I look at, you know, just like what I'm doing, that's kind of what I've figured out to do. It's just, you know, like it makes you feel good. but how do I go out there and start volunteering? It's nothing I've never even thought about. Yeah. Does that make me a bad person? I don't know either. And, you know, it's easy for me to sit up here on my high horse and my ivory tower.

But, you know, what am I doing to make the world better? You know, I try to be a good person and I work hard and I try to spread some love on the podcast. But ultimately, like, I guess maybe the way is to make it. you better is just to make yourself the best version of you, right? Because that's ultimately, that's all you can do. If you worry about the corruption or you worry about it or you're judging these other people, you're really not doing anything except making it worse when in fact the only thing you can do is try to make everyone around you better in a way. I think that that's probably the solution to it. I believe you. And I think there's not enough like uplifting of other

people happen yeah than like in the media you know old people are pretty quick to like want to like kick somebody when they're down or to point out the flaw in something that you know was seemingly good in what they did oh but oh there was one thing that they said or one thing that they did and this whole big picture of greatness right that was bad and let's focus in on that you know and i think it's like you were saying it's it goes back to clicks you know that stuff sells Yeah. People love demons, you know? Yeah. You know, it's like they're very attractive, you know, because they're interesting and, and they're unpredictable, you know, like Kanye. Yeah. Well, and they're seductive, you know, like it's like I was saying, like it is, you have this devil on your shoulder that's seductive and it's whispering these things in your ear and you're you're surrounded by the beautiful women and you got all this money and you probably feel very powerful in a lot of ways and you're, you're looking down.

down on people because you are elevated to the status. And, you know, there's probably a lot there that, you know, we are human and we are consumed by our passions at times. And that can be good, too, but it can also be very bad. It can, you know, hollow out your soul, man. It can get rid of all the things in your life that are beautiful. And the next thing you know, you're all alone right there. But it's interesting. Like what I see in on Oahu, I've seen a pretty big influx of homeless people too. And for many reasons, we both know. But there's been a lot of attacks lately. And it seems that there's been, I guess with the way the world is working, like there are some difficult times. And it seems we are headed towards a recession in some ways. And when people,

you know, have lost a lot, they, they become desperate. One of my ideas I was thinking about, I could see I could see there being a return to mental institutes. You remember when Reagan had all those mental institutes and they just took anybody it was on the street and locked them up? Lord knows what they did to them in there, but in some ways

if things got worse, I could see the public supporting that. Have you noticed maybe some of the homeless people where you're at becoming a little bit more aggressive? Well, you know, I mean, so Hawaii is one of the worst states in the union. for mental health, right?

Like you got mental health problems, you don't come to Hawaii. If you've got like other health problems, you know, come here, you know, because health care is more accessible. And, you know, and even though health care is more accessible in Hawaii, we're really bad with mental health. We don't have the facilities and the ones that we have are old and dilapidated, you know. And so, I mean, there needs to be a push for supporting people who are suffering with mental health. And I wasn't at Reagan that shut down those mental health? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And then, but then we've had, what, five presidents since then that have done absolutely nothing, nothing to correct that, you know? So, I mean, everybody's at fault. Yeah. So I think, I think there needs to be more support for, for, you know, mental health. you know, here in America, but it's always been one of those things that's taboo. You know what I mean? When you start talking to people like, hey, I got mental health. You know, suddenly, you know, it's like worse than leprosy. You know, people just are like running from you. You know,

that, you know, it's because they think you're, because they think you're going to be that person that's on the street pointing at the sun and screaming, you know. No, it's true. You know, there's a stigma. You know, the whole, you know, being labeled or diagnosis being, you know, mentally ill. And so I think, we need to begin there, right? And, and, you know, and understand that, you know, this, you know, and I believe that every person on earth is suffering from some sort of mental illness, you know, some sort of emotional illness.

You know, I think it's varying degrees. I think, I think diagnosis are made based on the fact that everybody's mentally ill, but if you are, you know, if you fall within this, outside of this range, then we'll diagnose you as actually being mentally ill. Yeah, I have a copy of the DSM-4, and I'll flip through there sometimes, and just, it's fascinating to think that there's a group of psychiatrists that get together and are like, I think this is a disease. They've ever seen a guy move his foot a bunch? That's called Restless Leg Syndrome. We should probably write that down. You know, in some ways, in my mind, I just picture a group of prestigious

guys getting together and labeling people that are really they don't like. This guy, you know who I hate? I hate the guy that dresses the, that dresses like a woman. Let's put that down as gender dysphoria. You know, like, yeah, it's a great. I hate those guys too. Let's get rid of them. You know, like, it's crazy to think about, but I mean, psychiatry in a way is just labeling people, right? Like, oh, Well, again, like, you know, it's an imperfect science.

It really is. And it's tricky. You know, it's not like, hey, this guy's got a broken arm. We can fix that. Right. You know, it's a whole different type of medicine, right? Or it's, you know, and then depending on, you know, your patient, like, your patient could be lying to you. Your patient could be not telling you the whole truth, you know.

And so there's just a lot of little nuances within, you know, within that profession when you're trying to freaking diagnose someone. you know it's it makes it very very difficult yeah it's it's one of those things but you know I think some of them like I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist and I can drive through you know Kahului and see homeless people that I know aren't mentally there you know like I know I know I don't have a degree in medicine but I know that person is sick and I think you start there right Like there's some people where it's just obvious. And those people need help, you know. And I feel bad for them.

You know, every day I drive through Pai, you know, to go to the farm. And so I drive through it twice. And there's, you know, there's a woman in Paiya who's got a blanket of wrapped around her. And she's been down there for years. And she is clearly having mental issues nonstop. And I feel bad for her, you know. And I think to myself, like, like we're the, you know, we're supposed to be the wealthiest. country in the world, you know, like, why can't we, why aren't there resources to help this woman?

And she's not the only one down there. There's like six or eight of them that are clearly suffering from some sort of mental illness. And I think, why can't we get these people some help? Yeah. Why can't they? Well, you know, part of this, there's laws. They got to want treatment at some point. You know, you can't force people, you know, to accept treatment.

And because of the things that were changing. in the 80s, you can't force incarcerate at the rate that we used to do it. You know, like get the people off the street, put them in a safe environment. You know, now for some reason, you know, and I don't know the reasons. So I don't know if they're good or bad, but you can't do that anymore. Like, you've really got to, you know, it's got to be special circumstances where you can just snatch somebody off the street and put them in a mental ward. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, you know, when I look at the system that we have, it seems to me that, you know, that because there's no way to make it financially, you know, a winning. There's no way to make money from it that it gets ignored. And I was just saying talking to a contractor that had come over and he's working with these nonprofits and he is he is attempting to create low income housing in really wealthy neighborhoods. And it's not that, you know, he showed me this price structure. And he's like, yeah, look, if we can get these houses in these neighborhoods,

then we can get this much money. And I'm like, yeah, I don't think the people that live in those neighborhoods want those houses there. You know, and he was a really awesome guy, and I liked what he was doing. However, you could see that he was struggling with the, the financial structure of like, yeah, it would be really great to get him in this neighborhood. And he was saying like, you know, like, yeah, I get it. It would be good.

But your incentive is that you want to make a bunch of money by getting these people in that neighborhood. You're not thinking about the person or the neighborhood. You're thinking about the money in between. And they, unfortunately, that's the only thing that motivates people, it seems, is the financial gain you can get from it or the model that is in place is a financial one. I was trying to explain to him. Look, I don't think that there's a financial. solution to the problems. The biggest problems we're facing, there's not

financial solutions too, and that's why nothing's being done about them. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the things that we, look, a lot of these, I'm a firm believer in community. And, you know, and I think that a lot of things that ail society could be solved within the

community, but, you know, sometimes the resources aren't available. Like, there's the will, there's the manpower, like people actually want to, you know, do something and to make their communities better. But one, it goes back to how do I do that? And two, largely, there's no resources available to help people that have good intentions and want to help people. Whether it's with, you know, affordable housing, whether it's with mental illness, you know, whether it's domestic violence, you know, whether it's with, you know, drug abuse and alcoholism and all of those other things.

I think the will is usually there within the community. It's just there's no, you know, it's either the mechanism to, you know, that that could trigger, you know, people to be able to help is missing or there's no resources at all. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's sad in some ways. And, you know, much like, much like we spoke about the world doesn't repeat, but it rhymes. it's probably a problem that's been going on since the beginning, you know? Yeah, well, I mean, there's always been problems.

Right. And so, like, you know, there's a political viewpoint where it's like, hey, let's get the government out of our way and we can solve some of these problems. And in many ways, those people are right. You know, like if we could take down some of these structures, because you can't do this because you can get sued. You can't do this because technically it's not. you know, it's not against, it's not, it's not lawful. You can't do this because it requires, you know, three years of a permitting process.

You can't do this, you know, because of a lot of restrictions where I agree. Like if, you know, I think people are better served, you know, not always, but in some instances when there is no bureaucracy blocking them from, from helping other people, you know, being able to, you know, like, hey, man, like, we have a homeless problem, right? I live in a place where every house out here is on a two acre piece of land in Haiku. It's all agriculture.

Right? And it's a big area. And I look around and I'm like, man, like we can put houses out here. You know, I know people who would build another house, like a small house and make it affordable if the county would let them. But it would be the third structure that they have on their land and they're never going to let them do that. Yeah. You know, so there's solutions out there. But sometimes, like, you know, especially when it comes to like, you know, with like the housing crisis, there's, there's really no way, you know, to get those things done quickly.

You know, it's all a long drawn out process, you know, here on Maui, it's like, no, you can't do that because the water's not available because we're giving it to, you know, the largest landowner on Maui, right? We're not giving it to people, we're giving it to them so that they can grow fruit trees. And it's like, you know, it's about prioritizing, you know, within the community, you know, things that are affecting people every day, such as homelessness and mental and mental health. You know, and these are discussions that I, you know, I have all. I mean, look at me. Like, you know, I'm on a piece of, you know, I'm on a farm that's 535 acres. there's not a single house on it. And, and, you know, and if I wanted to put a house on there, you know, I think the most that

could put on there is eight. And so, you know, that becomes a problem because anything more than that on this huge piece of land, you know, is, is going to take a, it's going to take a lot. You know, you need a 40-foot roadway. You need all of these different things, right? There's all these qualifications that prevent people from having affordable homes. There's subdivisions here on Maui that have been approved for 20 years. People don't want to build them because the government won't aid them in developing the infrastructure to actually build those units and make them available to the people.

It's a massive problem. And then on the other hand, I see where the county of Maui is coming from. It's like, you know, we are a tourist destination. And no offense, you live on Oahu. I'm from Oahu, you know, like the people on Maui are like, we don't want it to turn. into Oahu. Right? Yeah, I can see that.

So we like these people who are constraining, you know, construction. But the opposite side of this, they're not promoting farming. They're not doing anything to help people farm. The only people they seem to be helping are, you know, is the people that are directly involved in the tourist industry. And so, like, removing some of these, you know, laws and maybe if replacing some bureaucrats, you know, would help move things along and start to solve some of the problems that the community has a will and a want to solve.

Yeah, maybe if the people really wanted to solve the problem, they would, right? Maybe if they really, if people got together and they demanded change, things would change. Maybe we just don't, maybe we like to sit and complain about things, but we really don't like to move into action. Well, I think I think in part that's true But you know, I also believe that like even if everybody on Maui right now were to say hey look We we we want to change these things we want to change zoning and you know for at least a larger piece of rural Maui Which is you know I live on the northeast side. It's rural out here

And and everybody said yeah, let's do it. Let's go ahead and change you know Then somebody goes into an office pulls out the Maui you know Maui County Charter and looks at it and says you know, according to our county laws, we have to abide by this charter, and this charter says that we can't do that. And then the thing gets, like, litigated for the next five years. Meanwhile, people need housing. And people need, you know, mental health assistance.

Yeah. No? So it's like, you know, at every turn, there seems to be some sort of, like, roadblock. And the only way you do that is by, you know, is by, you know, getting out there and voting. and making people aware of the issues that affect them, whether they feel like they're affected by it or not. You know, we're all affected by homelessness here on Maui. We're all affected by the lack of mental health here on Maui.

We're all affected by drug abuse here on Maui. Those are the three things. What do you think about, like when we think about some people that maybe have mental illness, do you think that there should be what do you think about like should there be some sort of license you should have to have kids or should you have to pass a certain kind of test to have kids

do you think that that is something that is ridiculous or is worth thinking about Jesus charge to have kids like you got to pass some sort of test you know what I mean like well maybe maybe you shouldn't have maybe you couldn't have like you should have to

you shouldn't be able to have drugs for like when you're pregnant or when you're having kids or you should have to have it seems to me the people that have gone through it seems like people that don't do crack or better parents would you agree to that I know, George, I don't. I don't. That's a beautiful question, wasn't it? I think I think crackheads make an excellent parent. Paul, I got, I turn out the line. I'm getting tired, man. This is fucking a lot of fun, though, man.

And we can pick this up on the round table tomorrow. So, yeah, let's know when the round table is going to start. Yeah, I will. I'm super stoked. This is the conversation that we should have had probably like six months ago when we first started, man. Thank you. And listen, listen, when I first tuned into this thing right here and got on, I didn't know that we were broadcasting until that guy came on. Understand that.

That's when you're like, hey, we got a listener. Are you coming? I was like, what? Oh, it's so much fun, man. Yeah. Awesome. Well, tell the family that's at what's up, man. I'll talk to you in the morning, man.

Or afternoon or something. All right, brother. All right, low on. Yep. Thanks, meow. Thanks, hi. Yep. Check on the chat.