TrueLife - Perry Knoppert - The Octopus Movement

Episode Date: May 22, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Welcome, dear audience, to an encounter with a mind that sees beyond the ordinary. Perry Knoppert, with over six years as a founder, board member, and philanthropist, stands at the forefront of nonlinear thinking and cognitive diversity. As the visionary behind The Octopus Movement and Brain Forest Alliance, Perry pioneers efforts to celebrate and harness the remarkable abilities of atypical thinkers, empowering them to tackle today’s and tomorrow’s most complex challenges. A board member at Pick My Neurodiverse Brain, Perry champions inclusivity and understanding of neurodiversity, driven by his passion for authentic, transformative conversations. His life story, rich with multifaceted experiences, serves as a beacon of wisdom and inspiration. Philosopher, multipotentialite, and octovist, Perry Knoppert redefines leadership and problem-solving, connecting deeply with others through his innovative and expansive approach.https://www.theoctopusmovement.org/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Fearist through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen. Go to Instagram now, George. Go to Instagram now. Yeah. I disappeared, but I'm still there.

I'm clicking the button. Ladies and gentlemen, we are live. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I hope you're having a beautiful evening depending where you are. Maybe you're in the Netherlands. Maybe you're in Hawaii. But wherever you are, I'm stoked that you're here with us. I have an incredible guest for you today.

Everybody, you know, sometimes people say they don't need an introduction, but I think you're an awesome guy, and I know a lot of people do. And I've prepared an introduction for you, so here we go. Oh, ladies and gentlemen, to an encounter with a mind. I am introducing you to an encounter with a mind that sees beyond the ordinary. Perry Knappert, I love the K in there, with over six years as a founder, board member, and philanthropist stands at the forefront of nonlinear thinking and cognitive diversity. As the visionary behind the octopus movement and brain-forced alliance,

Perry Pioneer's efforts to celebrate and harness the remarkable abilities of atypical thinkers, empowering them to tackle today's and tomorrow's most complex challenges. board member at Pick My Neurodiverse Brain, Perry champions inclusivity and understanding of neurodiversity driven by his passion for authentic transformative conversations. His life story, now a documentary, rich with multifaceted experiences, serves as a beacon of wisdom and inspiration. Philosopher, multi-potentiate, and Octavist Perry. Knappert redefines leadership and problem-solving, connecting deeply with others through

is innovative and expansive approach. Perry, thank you for being here today, my friend. I hope you're doing well. Thank you, George. And if I would have heard this four years ago, I would have been laughing and saying, no, no way, you know. Who is he talking about? Oh, oh, fuck, it's me.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's the bumper sticker we're talking about. Oh, fuck, it's me. Yeah, we're creating. George and Perry are creating a bumper. sticker. Oh, fuck, it's me. Doesn't it says everything,

George? Oh, fuck, it's me. And that's kind of the secret to live in a better life. Oh, fuck, it's me. You know, as soon as you figure that out, your relationships get a lot better. Yep. That's the topic of today, folks. Oh, fuck, it's me.

It is. I like that. Yeah, me too. You, what is going on, man? I talked to a while back you had a documentary coming out and you've every time i look over at what you're doing you there's all these incredible like different tentacles that are beginning to form i saw one with the kids octopus movement i see people coming on board as new founding members and i'm not even sure where to start at man what which one of those is which thread in this beautiful tapestry do you feel like pulling on let's let's talk first about non-linear thinking and yeah maybe people are now thinking oh god here he comes again. But this is, this is everything for me, the nonlinear thinking. Okay. And the interesting part is,

is that I'm discovering myself what it is. That's why I want to talk about it, because every day I'm discovering more about what nonlinear thinking is. You know, we, we talk about things, but do we really understand what we're saying? right is are we really aware of what's going on and and and that non-linear journey for me is is fascinating and so dive with me george let's let's explore this okay when i talk about non-linear thinking i i always go to linear thinking first what is linear thinking and everybody everybody understands linear thinking but do we do we really understand linear thinking that's my thinking recently do we really think that we know linear thinking

and i was reading this book um will a i replace us love that book and in the beginning of this book it's it's writing about the laws of thought wow that triggered so much with me george the laws of thought that sounds like thought and then in combination with linear and then in combination with linear thinking, isn't that the old brain, the laws of thought? So we're born. Yeah.

And Janice, she's a founding member, a podcast host, and she runs the ambassadors in the octopus movement. She always says, I've never seen a linear two-year-old. That's why we're doing the think tank series with the kids.

There are no two-year-olds that are linear. Right. So, For me, linear thinking is a law of thought. It's the thinking we have created, which is there for years and thousands of years in our belief and our systems that we've created.

And everything that goes wrong in the world is also based on the laws of thought, the wars, the horrible way we can interact with other human beings. the religions, the judgments, the discrimination. It's all based for me on the laws of thought, on the thinking. Like, oh, fuck, it's me, right? It's the thinking that we think that that's the reality. And for me, that's linear thinking.

It's the old brain. It's, this is the reality because we're conditions that way. And I think for most people, this is like 90% of the time. So, and in the beginning, I would always say linear thinking is going from A to B to C to D, right, in the straight. But aren't we doing that constantly with everything in our lives, right? Isn't that always the laws of thought in creating how we see things without really thinking about it? And then the nonlinear thinking, for me, is, and that's what we spoke about last time as well,

is the space between these thoughts. So the laws of thought is how we're conditioned, how we are trained to think, how we see the reality. And between that, there is nothing, quietness, space. And from that space, ideas, comment service you know interesting things appear and and that's for me non-linear thinking it's it's detached from the laws of thought it's your own creation and you can see that online you know you can see with with all kinds of cool techniques that these neurons are connecting with each other

in the brain at some point and then we say it's meditation also interesting You know, we love systems and methods. Oh, we need meditation. I don't know what it is, George. For me, it's just empty space. And that allows to create something new. Kids are very good at it. And then we get older and we're adults and we are completely isolated in the laws of thought.

And we fuck up things, right? We're very kind to each other. And we're so tight in achieving what we want to achieve and be judgmental to ourselves and and to others and others to you as well. And we're all caught up in these laws of thought. Whereas if we can be quiet a little bit and create some space, for me, that's nonlinear thinking. And I'm so happy that it's becoming more and more clear now what that is. Nonlinear thinking is not just the creativity. It's already before that.

Creativity and nonlinear thinking is the output, but it starts earlier. It starts in an empty space where the laws of thought are irrelevant. You're not isolated when you're a nonlinear thinker. I think when you're very linear and you're caught up with all the laws of thought, and this is how it should be, and this is what I believe, and all these thoughts, think about it, George, all these thoughts constantly find out, they're conditions. And we think, we think that that's the reality. And, you know, a lot of people talk about what the hell is a reality, we live in a matrix or not,

or, you know, choose a different reality. Fine. But it's the thinking and the thinking is conditioned. And we need to be quiet. Not meaning you can't talk. Of course, talk. But we were just talking about dialogue. You know, look at the dialogue within your brain to others.

Dialogue meaning you don't want to convince anyone. There's not a statement. I'm not here to convince. I want to free flow with George because I like George. And I think how you think is awesome and it's fun to free flow. It's not about convincing. It's about the exploration of how it works. And the only way to get there, I think, is not to think

and therefore be a nonlinear thinker. And disconnect of the laws of thought. I like the laws of thought. And we were doing recently, I was invited to do a panel discussion. And it was about hippie 2.0. Let's go back to the 60s. Nice. And someone was talking about the mantra of the 60s, turn on, tune in and drop out.

And I decided to use that. I like that. And I changed it into turn on. you're normally in your thinking, meaning be quiet, create some empty space between your thoughts and allow new thoughts to be there that are not from the laws of thought that is there in the world. And tune in into the human mycelium. I was talking with a new founding member and he said something so cool, George. He said, the human mycelium is already there.

And I like that so much. We're not creating the human mycelium. And for anyone who's listening and thinking, the human mycelium, what the fuck? It's, it started with when we started the octopus movement, people were saying, oh, it's such a cool community. And I didn't like the word community. Maybe because my nonlinear brain constantly looks at language as well.

Yeah. You know, we use community immediately, without thinking, the laws of thought, oh, that's community, right? But what is it really? What really is a community? And does it really stand for what we're doing? And I didn't want to use the word community. I don't want to go into something and out and batches and rules.

It's the organic connection we have as human beings anyway. And then I saw Paul Stammer's documentary about fungi and how the trees and mushrooms are all connected under the ground you know without bias without judgment without discrimination and like hey you are really a weird tree we're not going to help you you know that's not happening in nature and we are nature but we're doing that thanks to the laws of thoughts i think so i was thinking this is this is our human mycelium that connection we have have any way and we see the connection when we meet each other so the first time we met um we saw that connection but that connection is there anyway and and if we tune into that and create these

connections and support each other and listen to each other and be quiet from time to time it's wonderful and then drop out drop out of these laws of thought you know get out of there be aware of that and just leave it behind fuck it's me speaker you know

that's that's dropping out of the laws of thought and when you're listening the laws of thought are there immediately you're listening and you're judging you're listen to him he really has a Dutch accent or oh wow There's a lot of octopuses around him.

And why is he Dr. Octopus? And these laws of thought are firing constantly. Constantly. And you want to be better. And you want to do more. And you want to be more successful. And you want to have more money. And you want to have more friends.

And your status is not good enough. These are the laws of thought constantly firing up. You can never be in that empty space. if if these things are bagging you constantly right it's taking over it's it's so that's why turn on tune in and drop out i love that so i copied that it's not me i borrowed it from the hippies yeah literally would be proud i think i i hope so that would be fun to talk yeah it would be fun i i i think If he was around today, I wonder if the reception would be a much different reception. It seems like the world is more prepared on some level to see the changes that are coming.

Here's a question for you. What role do you think language has on conditioning? You spoke about linear being a conditioned response. And the first conditioning we get is with language when people define words for us. But what do you think is a relationship between language and linear thinking? Well, what is language, right? What are these words? It's thinking.

Language is thinking. So the conditioning, using these words, are immediately bringing thoughts into our system. It's like the turn on switch. Say a word and something immediately happens. It's in the direct correlation between language and thoughts because thoughts is language, right? Yeah. If you look close, you can see a pattern like A, B, C, D, E, F, G. A letter is part of a word.

A word is part of a sentence. A sentence is part of a paragraph. A paragraph is part of a paragraph. as part of a story. A story is part of a book. A book is part of an anthology. You can see the linear pathways baked into the cake in the very basic blocks of almost any building,

but specifically language. I think language traps our children into thinking a certain way. You know, when you reach back and listen to some interesting people talk about glossolalia. You know, I know it runs counter to the ideas of Chomsky to think about glossolalia, but, you know, if I come up and I just make a bunch of weird mouth noises, like, choose, so please don't know, something, con, she's all there's

some for selling. Like, why can't that be something? Like, maybe there should be groups. When I, I used to drive, maybe there should be groups with teachers and kids just doing that and then talking about what that means. Because that's, I think, just as good of a language learning device as it is this is the noun, this is the verb. And I know you can't do it all the time, but maybe there should be some make-belie, which leads to non-linear thinking. Like, when you get to define what the words mean as a child,

now you've taken the labels off. You've given them some beginning tools where they can think things instead of having the law given to them at such an early age. Yeah. Rather than a teacher constantly saying to you, this is not good.

This is the law. You must ask for a past. This is not good. Can you imagine how strong these words are? This is not good. This is not good. And you hear that. I have dyslexia.

I've heard that my entire life. This is not good. This is not good. This is a mistake. You're doing it wrong. So strong. It's so strong. And when I was, and George, this is a funny story.

When I was in China, talking about weird sounds, I was working. I was working in a Chinese company and was one of the only foreigners there. And I was studying Mandarin. But when I started working there, it was Mama Hujoo. It means just a tiny little bit. So being in these meetings sounded like what you just did. But it's so interesting that I would be in this meeting and I could feel what it was about. I could sense what was happening, even though I didn't speak the language.

And this was a language, Mandarin, when you're Dutch, those are, you know, that's somewhere else. There is, if I'm listening to Swedish or German or French or that's, you know, that's close. That's I can, I can understand, I can relate, but Mandarin, are you kidding me? me go it doesn't make any sense but still you could feel it and that's how strong language is we say something we send a WhatsApp message

so strong it's language you use one word and you fuck up by using the wrong word or the wrong sentence and it immediately create something new. And that's the linear pathway.

He's saying this, so we're going there. We're not asking questions. We're not asking the teacher. Why is this wrong? Why is this spelling wrong? What does it mean to be wrong in spelling when I have dyslexia? Tell me, what does it mean? What does it really mean?

I would love to ask this to a teacher. What does it really mean to make a mistake in spelling? when you have dyslexia. Is it a mistake? Maybe no. No. My daughter has severe dyslexia as well. She was writing a birthday card for my girlfriend,

and she wrote down happy, so normally it's birthday, and she wrote down birth year. I thought it was cool. Yeah. Maybe it's not a birthday. It's a birth year. It's another year celebrating your birth.

I thought. it was very cool. What do we do in a linear response? Oh, it's wrong. It's birthday. Don't call on that kid anymore. They get it wrong all the time. You know, it's not birth year. It's birthday. Says who?

Thank you. The laws of thought tells us it's birthday. These are the unwritten rules and the written rules in life. And that's the linear construction. And it's not helping us. You know, if it's serving us, well then fine but look at where we are in the world i don't get it george people are so angry with each other we are at war we're killing each other killing we're killing other killing other

human beings based on thinking. Wow. Based on old ideas. And I think what you're seeing, at least in my mind, and I'd love to get your opinion on this. I think what you're seeing right now is the death of, or maybe what we're seeing is the birth pangs of nonlinear thinking, becoming the path forward for everyone. It seems to me like a lot of the ideas that people are struggling with, whether it's economy or money or resources or different types of land grabs on some level or hate.

Like these are old ideas that no longer serve us. And they are, at least in my opinion, affiliated with linear thinking. People that don't think linear, don't see this. Maybe another way to look at linear thinking is one dimensional. That's a pretty good. What do you think about that? Linear thinking in one dimensional. Yeah.

And it's changing, George. You're absolutely right. Of course it is. And it looks bad. It's like it's dying. But it needs to. And why are we all looking at this? Where we're all exploring this, I think it also has to do with AI.

I think the laws of thought created something that is absolutely wonderful. It's think about it. The laws of thought, the thinking, the conditioning, the creating language, we did that together. And it's the, it's a language model, AI. It's the basic. So we are exploring our own thinking by creating AI. Yeah. How wonderful is that?

We've been able to isolate the laws of thought by creating AI, by creating chat chipped within what is it now, an IQ of 155. It's wonderful. And why do I think it's wonderful? It's because all the energy going into AI, in nature, everything is balanced, right? It's, we agree on that. So if all this energy is going into AI, the other energy, the same amount of energy is going into human intelligence. So I think by isolating the laws of thought in AI opens up the awareness of nonlinear thinking of the empty space in our brains that creates new pathway.

that are unique for human beings. And that will change a lot of things. We always talk about education. We always talk about education, right? And everybody agrees that education should change. This is fascinating. I've never met anyone who said, no, education is fine as it is.

We're doing a very good job. Everybody agrees that we should do something about education. Nothing is happening. I know. There are some new schools here and there and some new ideas. And we have Sir, whatever, with all these TED talks. I know. But it's not changing, George.

It's not changing. I have three kids. It's not changing. And opening up this space of nonlinear thinking by the isolation of laws of thoughts within linear thinking in AI, I think that will. open up a whole new way of looking into education and how we can change that. And that we have to change that. We have to change.

We have to change things in how we look at them. We have to. This is not working. I just saw a post this morning that in the Netherlands, the Netherlands, country, right? So small. And the numbers are, you know, nobody knows the exact number. And this article was writing about 30,000 people not going to school in the Netherlands because they don't fit into the system.

I heard some other stories. It's 60,000. And the official number from the government is 8,000. You know, governments are very good in your thinking. They say it's official. But it's between 30,000 and 60,000 kids are not going to school because they don't fit into the system. We have 17 million people in this. the Netherlands, something like that, 18.

I'm not good with numbers. I don't know. It's a tiny country. What the hell are we doing? You know, these kids are, it doesn't fit. We need to do something. Yeah. I think people get into trouble when we think about education,

because so much of education is indoctrination. And it seems to me, at least in the schools that I went to, the idea of the school is to bring about some idea of shared goals and shared sacrifice, not necessarily based on true accounts of history. So if you look at that as education, you can go, oh, there is no more shared goals. There is no more shared sacrifice. There can't be any education according to the way we were doing it anymore. It has to change, and it is changing.

I heard a good quote that said growth and comfort can't coexist. And if you look at our school systems, you can see the shattered paradigm that was education. But like you said that, these 30,000 kids in the Netherlands that are not in school, it's not like they're not being educated. They have education on demand. They can join the octopus movement. They have parents for helping them. They can learn things that they want to learn.

And it's changing right in front of our eyes, I think. And it's such a fascinating time to be alive. It's just a matter of time. Here's one for you. There's a kid at my daughter's school. who started a YouTube channel. And for anybody who's ever watch that show, Ryan, Ryan's channel is big in the U.S.

And him and his mom started this little channel, and they became like a power house. If you go to any target, you'll see this kid's picture on all the board games, on all kinds of stuff. And here's a guy and his mom that we're living in Texas, and the next thing you know, they're multi-millionaires. I think the resume of the future for children is,

what have you created? There's no, there's, there's no, more excuse to say you haven't created anything because you can create your idea and bring it to life online. How many people are watching what you're doing? Like you said, kids know some incredible things and we watch them and we're amazed and we're inspired and we're like, look at this. Get doing this thing. How does he know that? You know, that's the kind of stuff. These are the leaders of tomorrow. And like that is, that's the change right there in front of us. It's happening as fast as you can talk about it. What do you think? Is that too crazy?

Without rules, right? Yes. Without rules. There are, it's not, this is how to create your YouTube channel. This is how to create. This is what is create, right? There is a problem with this is how to create. That's already in conflict.

This is how to create. That's another bumper stick. That's so funny. Like that's, yeah, another bumper stick. Number two. That's also weird. This is how to create. that that's what is creation creation is creating something it's the unexpected bringing together

and something new so there cannot be any rules in creation right it's impossible right otherwise it's not a creation and and that's what's going wrong at schools i think we we're not allowed to make mistakes. We're not allowed to make mistakes anyway. Also outside of school, you know, I'm not allowed to make any mistakes in this interview. People don't allow me. I don't fucking care if I make a mistake. If it's bullshit what I'm saying or not. I'm just having a fun conversation with my George. Right. Why do we, we're not allowed to make mistakes and we're we're punished immediately canceled. Oh, this is this is bullshit what he's saying.

I'm unfollowing him. Let's cancel the dude. We're not allowed to make mistakes at school. Isn't that the biggest thing? We wrote a white paper on education. That's why I'm saying this. We did the think tank. We came together with all these nonlinear,

neurodiverse, crazy dudes, women. And fantastic all over the world. And we created a white paper. What's going on? How do we see this? And I think the most important thing is mistakes. We're not allowing kids to make mistakes. How? How? How can we grow when we're not allowed to make mistakes? My God, did I make many mistakes in my life, George?

And I keep making them. Good. And that's how we grow. But we have created this institution of thinking. It doesn't allow you to make any mistakes. You get the language. These are the thoughts. Who is saying that these thoughts are real?

This language is the actual thing you need to learn. And then you're not allowed to make mistakes. So these language is coming in. These laws of thought are there. And better not make a mistake in repeating the, laws of thought. Wow. My daughter said to me one day,

during the pandemic, she was at home, you know, and I was homeschooling her. And two dyslectic people together, homeschooling is a lot of fun, really. But it went well,

and it went fast, and we did so much, and we had so much fun. And she keeps saying to me, you know, I wish I could be at home with you that you teach me because you understand how I think. Yeah.

And it's fun. And I keep saying it's okay to make a mistake. My other son has dyslexia. Oh, dyspraxia, sorry. And that means his handwriting is not in line with how it should be. He can't even read his own handwriting. That's how difficult it is. And again, again, you know, it's wrong.

It's wrong. This is not how you should write. And he came home one day, totally frustrated because he had this Dutch teacher on his back. He was in the international school in Belgium. And she was constantly complaining to him that he should improve his handwriting. You're doing it wrong. This is how it should be. You're not allowed to make mistakes.

This is how we agree that handwriting looks like. And I told him, I said, okay, let's take some cards and write down some things for me. And his handwriting is wonderful, George. It's a work of art. And he wrote down, fuck you for me. And I framed it. It's somewhere in my house. That'll come in handy later.

And it's, I said, look at this. I'm framing this. It looks so cool. It looks so cool. No, you're doing it wrong. Your handwriting should be exactly like this. Laws of thought. Linear thinking.

The linear thinking is this is how it should be. And we believe that. Non-linear thinking is being an empty space, allowing something else to happen and say, but this looks cool as well. I'm not saying that, you know, we shouldn't be listening to rules, or we should ignore all the systems.

That's not what I'm saying at all. But now it's 90, 99% of the time it's all linear. Everything that's happening in our heads are linear when you're thinking. It's just wonderful to create some awareness that there's something else as well, to be quiet and create something new. And not judge immediately when you see something when you hear. something. Just be fucking curious.

Ask questions. How old are you saying? He's 16 now. Okay. Yeah. He's all cool and, you know, he's okay. Yeah.

I think you cannot be curious if you're linear, George. Can that be a statement? I think curiosity is trained out of you with laws. You know, curiosity is, curiosity is finding a way to build a better mouse trap and people that own the mouse traps don't want you trying to figure out how to build a better one.

You know what I mean? Like that's that comes back to authority. And I if we if we talk about authority, linear thinking, curiosity and education, I think that we can say us as parents have to be the individuals that are setting an example to be. be not afraid to be nonlinear. Because so many of us have thoughts that are different than what we're doing. And we've been trapped our lives into authoritarian structures where we're afraid to leave because of, we're afraid to make a mistake. Like you said, we're afraid to make this mistake.

But if we as individuals, we don't show our kids that you got to stand up and fight or, hey, I'm going to do this regardless, because this is the. right thing to do. And I think my idea is better. I don't care about their dumb idea. I'm going to do my idea. Watch this. And there's real consequences for that. But if we as individuals don't show our kids that, then we are doing the training of linear thinking. And I have tons of friends that are brilliant, non-linear thinkers, but they're trapped in the linear world. And they are training their kids to be linear. You know, there's, it just seems like that to me. What would you take on that? I think a lot of parents are trapped, are isolated in that area of not being curious about their kids.

They have their own trauma, their own frustration, trying to save their kids. And they're in, this is difficult that George. Can you imagine? We're all nonlinear thinkers. Then we're conditioned. It makes me want to cry, Perry, to be honest with you. And we're all conditioned. And then we have kids.

And we all want the best for our kids. I strongly believe that. I agree. We all want that. And we have our thoughts, what is good and what is bad. And we're conditioned as well. And we bring that to our kids. We imprinted on them.

Yes. And I'm amazed to see the lack of curiosity towards. our own kids all in that celebration of preparing our own kids to the evil world out there get a good job make sure you're you're safe you know be financially independent be happy but but your your child is something beautiful is is your non-linear product yeah It's your child is the empty space. Your child is innocent. And your child is suffering as well, you know, thanks to your DNA and your own trauma.

You're giving that shit to your kid. So you better, you better fix yourself before you get kids because you're, you're giving it to them. So you better be curious when you have kids. Yeah. You better be curious. And the only way to be curious is to understand your own nonlinear space. It's there. Everybody has it.

Turn on your nonlinear thinking. Turn on your nonlinear thinking. And be curious about them. Because they are wonderful. They have ideas. They have new thoughts. Don't try to push them into those. laws of your thinking on what's good for them you want to you want to raise independent beautiful

heartwarming thinkers that are human are able to connect with others don't hurt others you need to be curious about your own kids that should be at work when is the last time bry when you went to your kid, I'm curious. Not not, not, I'm curious how did it go last night when you went out with your friends. I'm not talking about that kind of curiosity. That's not curiosity. You want to know what happened. Right.

Fuck, it's not me. Yeah. You want to know what's happened. That's not curiosity. What is curious? Curiosity. George, curiosity is to discover new things. So knowing what he or she did last night,

it's not curiosity, being in control. Yeah. Curiosity is about, how do you see this? That's curiosity, because you don't know what they're going to say. How was it at school? It's not curiosity. No way. Yeah.

No. I picked up my daughter from school. We were in the car. She's telling me about school. And I said to her, I said, what was the most, you know, what are the new rules you've learned today? She gave me a bunch of weird rules. She is at a strange school, I have to say this. She's not allowed to, now, but listen to this, George.

Okay. She's not allowed to talk to her brother during the break because the kids that don't have any siblings at the school could be, jealous. That's ridiculous. No, that's weird. That's, you know, what? And so I'm curious. Yeah.

Where is this coming from? So I sent a school message, can we talk about this? I'm, you know, where's this? But they don't want to talk to me. This is, imagine that. This is too difficult. Where is you curious? And then,

was talking about the second world war and then she was talking about something other that was horrible i said okay so rules war what did you did you learn something today that was beautiful you know did you all draw a flower or you learn the name of a bird or whatever no no george need to be curious and we need to be curious to our teachers as well at school ask them why

so why is it all about rules and war and why is it not about flowers and birds what's going on why tell me we need to be curious we need to be really curious

curious in understanding things we don't understand seeing new patterns seeing new ideas not curiosity to be in control. That's not what it's about. Yeah, it's interesting to think about, if we take it all the way back to language

and you look at classes, I think often there's English class or there is homeroom class, but maybe there should be a class called curiosity. What did you do in curiosity today? That would be a great addition, and I realize that it's easy for us to sit here and talk about adding new curriculums

and things like that when there's not a whole lot of money involved in public schools. And I'm sure that there's great teachers trying to do their best. However, I think that introducing curiosity into every curriculum on some level would be a step in the right direction. Or semantics on that. You could even, like, how do we explain stuff? Like, every class could be a semantics class. Everything could be about language.

It could be a throwback to the way in which we taught a group of people. And instead of trying to tell kids what to do, we could bring them, up and be like, what young genius is this? What gifts do they have? And in a structure that is more rewarding and more curious and more able to develop non-look at, we sound like a bunch of non-linear guys, man. We have all these, all these awesome ideas, you know. This is what happens. This is what happens, Barry. And please, teachers, don't create a system into curiosity. Don't, please. It's a, it's a, Curiosity needs to free flow.

It cannot be, I'm thinking, I'm listening to you, George, and I'm thinking, of course, there's a level of curiosity at school, you know, and then you're curious about something, okay, do your research and have a presentation. There's immediately a system, you know, this is how you research and this is how you give the presentation. And have some American friends to say, presentation, I don't, I never get that. Is it presentation or presentation? I don't get it.

Anyway. Desert dessert. Forget about it. Be curious. And discover how you want to discover your curiosity and don't put it into a system because it makes it linear again. This is how you want to explore.

And everybody explore. in a different way. And you can, of course, this is education. So make mistakes in your curiosity, you know. And teach kids, well, when you're curious, you can also do this and this. Oh, wow, maybe inspire them how to fulfill their curiosity in other ways. But there cannot be one system to explore.

explore your curiosity. They cannot be systems are, yeah, systems. Sometimes systems are awesome, but sometimes systems. I was listening to a podcast and someone was talking about. This was interesting, George. I like that. When you have a goal in mind,

your teacher, your coach, your guru, you know, you're George. You want to have one million listeners on your YouTube channel. 10 million whatever make make a living out of your interviews youtube paying you you know that's that's the goal and you work towards that you create a system to go there the problem is that you create the end goal that's your linear thinking this is if i have 10 million listeners on my youtube channel i will make this amount of money

whatever wow that's you know that's that's that's your end goal and that's a linear construct and you work towards that with the method this is how i what steps to take other other people creating youtube videos about how to create that this is what you need to do right so you you you're in a kind of self can find the word hypnosis You're in a self-hypnosis, creating that method to go there. Right? This is, and this is what people talk about focus. You need to focus.

You need to focus. This is where you want to go. Then go there. Create a method. This is how it works in a linear way, right? And they proved this is what my focus was. I created the method and I got there, so it works. But this self-hypnosis makes you blind.

What if the end result is not this end result? What if George creates his own TV show? What if George becomes the Saturday Night Live hosts? What if George creates his own magazine? What if George get into something completely different? But you're not seeing that in your self-hypnosis because this is your end goal. This is the only place I want to go to. So you're missing out on all these other opportunities.

And we create this method. And then when it works, we share this method with others. Look, it works for me. Find this so fascinating. Okay, let me ask you this then. Maybe the linear system is necessary. I heard a gentleman the other day who was talking about, If you take a Coke bottle and you smash it just right with the palm of your hand, you can blow out the back of it.

But you need the right pressure to do it. Maybe the system is what provides the pressure in order for a mutation to work. And the mutation is nonlinear thinking. Maybe the system is a necessary form of drudgery and pressure in order to make people think nonlinear and find a new way. I always say that I'm very grateful for the system. Okay. I have this research paper from the Institute of Economic Affairs and it explains what non-linear thinking is from a perspective of finance, management, economics. Can you imagine? So the system explaining non-linear thinking, I love it. Yeah, that's hilarious.

I'm not making this up. Yeah, I was just going to ask you if you had it. I would love to hear a little snippet from there. let me get it. Yeah, please take your time. I'm not making this up, really. Chaos management and economics. The implications of nonlinear thinking. They talk about the chaos theory,

the Hoper Paper 125, whatever. A chaotic world is more complex than can be captured by the linear equations generally used by economic modelers and by the conventional analysis of management scientists. The chaotic world is so chaotic that the linear world is saying, uh-uh, no way. Can't measure it. Can measure it.

It's scary shit. Yeah. You can't measure it doesn't exist. Interesting, huh? It's tragic. The long-term future is inherently unknowable. Economics which cope with best. with chaotic conditions are likely to be those which promotes entrepreneurial adaptation.

Okay. And then it goes on and on and on. Very cool. And then it's writing about, so why are people so linear? And this is, this explanation is why I always say I'm grateful for the linear system. linear thinkers are afraid to look at their own mental state they want to be in control they want to use the laws of thought because then at least they're in control of that there's no chaos within the laws of thought agree yeah so if we know what happens next week next month we're in the laws of thought we're in control and we're we don't have chaos in our lives we wear tight underwear everything is in balance and we're fine at least we think we're fine and everything that is close to chaos or different thinking we turn our backs towards that or them

we don't want to go there i know when i became homeless i know i've seen it i've seen it i have seen people turning their backs on me saying no dude i don't want to be close to you i don't want to hear anything that's happening with you good friends at george they walked away they are afraid of their own mental state they're isolated in the laws of their thinking and and this is beautiful because the linear system that teacher who can kept saying to me, you're wrong, this is a mistake. You're doing it wrong. You're doing it wrong.

Really made me question about my own mental abilities. You know, if someone is constantly saying to you, you're not doing a good job, you start to think, what's wrong with me? And that's a good question. Yeah. It's a very good question. I wish everybody would be thinking, what's wrong with me? Everybody would be thinking what's wrong with me. Can I imagine these successful linear thinkers,

they think they are ruling the world, grabbing and stabbing, and they find themselves normal, and they never think about themselves, what's wrong with me, and they continue and continue, and they cancel. Not very nice, but that linear system kept saying to me, you're doing it wrong. So I became very curious about myself, what's wrong with me?

So I'm, I'm okay with my mental state. I'm okay when I'm depressed for a day or two. I'm okay when I'm crying. I'm okay when I'm lost. I'm not afraid of that. I don't mind what happens. I don't mind because I discovered when I was homeless that nothing changed. Nothing changed.

Inside of me, nothing changed. outside of me, everything changed, inside of me, nothing changed. Well, if nothing changes when something like that happens, that's an amazing feeling. And I think the linear system really helped me and helped a lot of nonlinear thinkers to question their own mental state, hopefully in a positive way. That allows you to be nonlinear. Because when you're a nonlinear thinker, you question yourself. You're curious about your own mental capabilities, capacities, states.

You're curious about how that operation system works here. If that happens, you can allow chaos in your life. You can adapt to whatever situation because you're not trapped in all these thoughts. Being an expert, when we came to China, I was amazed. people were living there, expats. You're in a different country. It's a different culture. And some of, most of them, George,

it was horrible for them. You know, they don't have any cheese here. What the hell? It's, yeah. They can. So the system really, and that's the positive thing of the system in education. So I'm not against some.

suffering suffering is wonderful it opens up so many doors the only problem is that which way does it go does it become trauma or does it become inspiration and same thing and that's you know we need to talk about that so i'm i'm grateful for the system i'm grateful for the institute of economic affairs yeah creating this paper of doing linear research or about non-linearity, it's fascinating. Yeah. And when I was done reading this, I was thinking, why are we not talking? Yeah, leadership. We're going to dive into leadership soon with the octopus movement. Leadership is very linear, right? Yeah.

These are the thoughts. These are the laws. This is how you should do it. Not for long, though, Perry. I was not for long. It's radically changing when an individual can compete with a multinational. And that is happening at record time. I was just speaking with John Davis, an incredible marketer.

We were talking about the future of the creator economy. We were talking about the lies that are so perpetuated. And one of them is when we think about the ideas of a large multinational corporation, talking about saving the planet, but they have a business model built on excess consumption. The employees know that. Like those lies on that level is the cancer that is just cutting into the world. Like look at that.

Like you even a linear like everybody can see it. You know what I mean? Like there's no linear path there. But it's changing. It's changing in an incredible level, I think. And I think that the business model is going to benefit. so much from the creator economy and the non-linear thinkers. They have so much to add to the future of business, to the future of growth, to the future of success, and to the future

of building. It's, that's probably why we're here, man. That's probably a big reason why you started this. Maybe you could talk about that a little bit. Human intelligence, George, I strongly believe in that. Human intelligence. Combine that with linear thinking, however you want to see it, by artificial intelligence or not, human intelligence with systems create something wonderful. And that's what we're doing in the octopus movement. And then I'll explain why I started this. But we have five areas we focus on.

Hunger, homelessness, of course, climate change, education, and well-being. These are the five areas. And we always say the octopus movement is the global human mycelium of nonlinear thinkers solving the unsolvable for a sustainable future. It took us three years, took me three years to create that sentence because I had no clue what the fuck I was doing. I was just only thinking these nonlinear thinkers are cool. We need to do something together. And I think we, that the first focus on these five areas solving the unsolvable makes me smile because something is only unsolvable when you think about it's being unsolvable is linear you decide what we just talked about you know the self-hypnosis we want to go there

but it's not possible so it's unsolvable that's ridiculous everything is solvable. It's only unsolvable from a linear perspective. Look at Elon Musk, you know. Yeah. It's landing back on Earth with his rockets. Right. Everybody said it was impossible.

He spent an amazing amount of money on failure. And he did it. And I strongly believe that we can solve hunger, homelessness, climate change, education, and well-being, or at least make a huge difference there. How bringing all these non-linear thinkers together, we have think tanks. We write a white paper on education, George,

and it's on our website. It took us 50 minutes. 50 minutes. You bring 40 brilliant non-linear thinkers together, you work for 50 minutes, bam. And you write the white paper. and writing the right paper okay that took a few days of course but creating it the emptiness and making new connections that creation took 50 minutes i think the solution for homelessness

is there of course it's there just have to bring it together hunger in the world when you think about it how can there be hunger in the world how can there be hunger in the world how you know so that's and why did i start the octopus movement for this no i i was homeless i survived after seven months before that i tried to get a job i went back to the netherlands and gave away everything was on the streets just the bag and the dog staying with friends and survive that nobody wanted to talk to me because my resume looks like shit george really i have done so many different things that I'm not a specialist. You know, who is this guy?

Is he marketing? Is he sales? Is he what, what is he doing? So getting a job didn't work out for me, which was the biggest present. I was very, very frustrated to send away maybe 150 letters. Nobody invited me. I had not one conversation. It's the biggest gift. It's the biggest gift.

I'm so happy. no one replied i'm so happy i didn't get a job so grateful maybe it's the whatever organizing this and and i thought i can survive this i'm i'm okay nothing changed for me if i have a job or not i have a house or not i'm still the same perry and and i decided you know i'm i'm going to create a non-profit if everything is possible, what would I do in my life? That was really the conversation that I had myself. Everything is possible, what do I do? Maybe it's a great question for everyone.

If everything is possible, what would I do? Answer that, right? And for me, I want to create, first of all, I want to be an artist. That's number one. I want to be an artist. Why? because art is beautiful art in the artistic way i'm not talking about a painting i paint fine i write i take photographs but art is more than that you know art is the nonlinear creation of a

feeling of a thought and being an artist for me is everything. And it's impossible to explain art. If you say, what is art? Difficult explain. You know, these books about what is art? The great story about this

art gallery owner who dropped his glasses on the floor and he was in a hurry and he put up the painting, his glasses dropped and his phone was ringing and he came back and there were all these people standing around his glasses. Like, yeah, that's interesting.

What is art? So I wanted to be an artist. I'm an artist now. And I thought, I want to create a non-profit and build something beautiful with all these humans that are not being recognized. I've met so many people, George, who said to me, if only people would know, I could do so much more. And even with people that are successful, whatever, whatever that may be, you know, maybe financially independent, successful. They also think if only people would really know who I am, I could do so much more. And I think that's the nonlinear mind talking.

And I thought, let's bring them all together and see what happens. That's it. there's no business plan there's no blueprint there's no there's no goal just bring it together spill that human mycelium and along the way so there's no self-hypnosis in in the octopus movement we're creating and along the way with all these arms and all these suckers and all these different colors things are happening and then we embrace things that are happening oh that's dive into these five areas. Oh, let's do the thing things.

Let's do art projects. Let's teach at schools. Let's give seminars. Let's do retreats. Let's meet up and talk about these things. I don't know what's happening and what will happen in the coming years. But I know it's growing every day. Every day people are joining.

Every day, awesome things are happening. We now have the angel donors. I have to share this with you. Yeah, please. The angel donors. I got a little octopus. I was doing a keynote with the railway company in the Netherlands. And I did a keynote on neurodiversity, but not on neurodiversity, on the space before and after neurodiversity and around neurodiversity.

not particularly about ADHD and autism and dyslexia but what is diversity neurodiversity I love that word you know when we go back to the linear thinking the laws of thought and then we created neurodiversity saying whenever there's a problem there is neurodiversity and if there's not a problem there's no diversity uh-huh yeah that's I can talk for more than an hour about that topic alone. Anyway, they gave me this little octopus. Of course, people give me octopuses. And I love that. But this is such a nice octopus. It's nice and soft and it has these little balls in its head and it feels well and it's like a nice fidget toy. And this is from nature,

planet, and it's recycled materials and it's recycled stuffing and organic stuff. You can put it in mouth it's yeah it's okay and i was thinking in this human mycelium that is there we're sending this little octopus to people that can use a little bit of support or use a little bit of acknowledgement that you're doing an awesome job so you can hold this in your hand and it feels good and and i thought how are we going to do this so we've created the angel donors it's a small donation into the non-profit so we can buy these little friends and send them all over the world to people who could use a little bit of octopus in their lives and and why an angel donor it's from the angel investors and i discovered that that stopped that started in the theater world art so that triggered my interest immediately when the

theaters were having trouble financially. Their audience were supporting them. They became angel investors in the theater world. And then they used that word to the startup scene. Thoughts, words, language again, George. It's all about language. So I love the angel donations, the angel investors coming from the arch world. So that's why those are the angel donors.

within the octopus movement and we're sending this little friend all over the world to people that can use a little eight-armed three hearts and nine brains animal to hold in their hands knowing to rely on their nonlinear thinking and and that it's okay cool yeah it's a cool policy it's um how do you identify the people that need them there's no system george See the synodran in the local. Yeah, of course. There's no checklist. Okay.

Does he have... I reached out. I reach out to some people sometimes. There is this clothing brand. Colorful standard, I think it is. I love that. It's all organic materials and it doesn't have a brand

and it's one color. So you can be a one color stain. That's how we're. We call that in the family. You know, you wear a black t-shirt, black pants, black socks, black underwear, black, bunnets, everything is one color. And they have all these colors, colorful standard. And it's all organic cotton.

And it's awesome. And I reached out to them because on their website, they're saying we're looking for brand ambassadors. But they have a checklist, you know, to be a brand ambassador. You have to have a following of 10,000 on Instagram here. You have to checklist. That always inspires me so much. I reached out to them. I said, I don't have these numbers.

We just have an amazing group of nonlinear thinkers. And I would love to wear your outfit in one color. I think it's so cool. They never replied because I don't, you know, I don't fit in the box. I don't have these numbers. Right. So I'm not a brand ambassador for them. It's okay.

I'm still a brand ambassador, even if they don't select me. I'm telling you here how cool this brand is. Of course I'm a brand ambassador. They do something awesome. So there's not going to be a checklist, George. People can sign up. They can just submit a forum. I know someone who deserves an octopus.

The question is why. And if the answer is that, but that's how I feel, then it's a perfect answer. You know, it's not about how many followers you have on Instagram. It's, it's so irrelevant. Someone needs an octopus. And then you get this little octopus with a little heart on the label and the octopus movement. And, and, and it's a direct connection into, tune in to the human mycelium. Yeah.

We support you. We think you're doing an awesome job. We like you as a human being. Here's a little animal. It's a funny sentence, right? And then you can hold it. And I'm constantly playing with my little octopus. I'm doing meetings like this. I'm like a little kid. But it's comfortable. It makes me feel good when I hold this little octopus. So there are no rules. People can submit the form. I will make sure you get the link, George. Yeah, I definitely. I know people that need them. Just give me their names and address and we send them an octopus. Okay, I'll do it. Yeah. It's interesting to see the way in which a movement can begin to snowball. And in my mind, the act, you know, there's this great quote that says, practice random acts of kindness.

And if enough random acts of octopus or octopi being sent, out to people could change the lives of a few people. And it would. You get a random octopus in the mail that talks about being good enough or, hey, you think different, you know, or whatever sort of messages on there. That's a real movement, you know, that has the ability to symbolize and catalyst change for the better. It's beautiful, man. I love it. So you get your octopus in a little card saying George thinks you're awesome and we with the octopus movement love that now we're enjoying right I love it it's beautiful was that did that come out of a think tank or did that come on that that came out of quietness in my brain seeing this thing and and then I thought this little

fucker needs to go to other people yeah so happy with it I'm so happy with my little octopus this feeling is so good that I want to share that. That's all. I want mine to say, oh, fuck, it's me. Maybe you should put that on the label as well. Yeah, that would be perfect. Oh, shh, fuck, it's me. It's me. Becaboo. There I am. Right. Perry, too much fun, man. I love talking to you. This is we should do it more often. It's It's, would you got anything coming up or anything, man? Like, what's up with the documentary?

Documentary is a challenge. Humans, human interactions, maybe language. So there's a little hiccup. The filmmaker, the artist. I have a meeting with him next month to see how we can finish the documentary. It's almost done, the beauty between thoughts. Hopefully we can finish it soon. We have a monthly theme in the octopus movement now.

So this is interesting, George. We're creating structure. I have a chief of staff now, Karen Ziegler. She is my Watson. Yes, he is. She is my Watson. And we create things together. And she said one day,

Perry, you need to create a theme into the monthly structure of the octopus movement. There's so much going on. We need to have clarity on what's happening. So now we have a monthly theme. Here you go. I want one. It's coming, Lonnie.

Be ready. This month, it's mental health. That's a global theme, mental health. And I'm thinking, what is mental health? And we did a think tank on mental health. which went very well and tomorrow we will have a live dialogue on mental health so that means we have 10 people on stage and we broadcast that live and people can be in the audience and you can be pulled up on stage as well if you want to share something and we're going to do a monthly dialogue

on the topic. And the dialogue is interesting as well. George, we spoke about that. Yeah. Before the broadcasting today. The dialogue is very nonlinear as well. A good dialogue has no agenda. A good dialogue has people who can enjoy the silence as well

and are not there to convince. There's no dialogue possible if someone wants to convince someone else. It's not a dialogue anymore. The dialogue is really to free flow in that nonlinear space. So the first dialogue session that we will do monthly is happening tomorrow on mental health. And next month, it's all about gender, LHPTQ plus. I don't know if I say this correctly. I always make mistakes there.

It's about gender. fascinating talking about the laws of thought right for humans i'm a man he's a woman there's neurodiversity people are lost what's happening you know why are my difference maybe my difference is into gender maybe it's not maybe it's my bipolarness maybe what's going on so that topic in june is going to be fascinating as well. So we start with a think tank on gender, then we do a dialogue, and then we go to the next theme for July. That's the structure we have now. People can sign up, become a member of the octopus movement, then select, I want to be in the think tank, and then you get an invitation to be in the think tank and think with us. The angel donors are very important that we can bring this little

friend out into the world. We have founding members, George. Founding members are awesome. Founding members are the inner family of the octopus movement. They did a donation. They made it all possible. We were setting up. I started with the think tank for the corporate world to tap into the global nonlinear brain, but we decided not to call it the think tank. It's more a nonlinear consult. It's more a nonlinear consultancy brain and a think tank um we've been in forbs about this and um more and more organizations corporates start-ups scale-ups are reaching out and saying we want to tap into your nine your brain we we have an unsolvable issue we've promised our investors that we would do a turnover of this and it's not happening what the fuck you know we need we need a bunch of

different thinkers to solve this for us what are we doing wrong you want to you want to solve this within a few days to do a think tank in 50 minutes to do a consultancy in 50 minutes an hour and go for it you know have a different idea um so that's happening we're organizing events we have ambassadors all over the world and we're organizing now real live events within the octopus movement so we can tune into the human mycelium meet each other have fun connect create and something new is happening in the octopus movement as well is that we're working together with an amazing company opt match founded by jennifer hill founding member as well and we're using her her system to create the perfect match.

And it's it's a questionnaire, a test of 22 questions, 20 questions, something like that. And she discovered the holy grail of connections. And she's into that. She loves connecting with people and making the right connections. Not just you need to talk to him because he has a lot of money and you need money. Not that kind of thing, but more you're alike. your souls are alike and it's not Meyer Briggs you know oh you're an ENFP and he's in an ENFB so you need to connect she discovered something else and we're using her system within the

octopus movement so when you sign up in the octopus moving you can do the tests starting next week I think and then you will be connected to five other octopi that are like you so you can talk to five other nonlinear thinkers like yourself that has the same profile as you so you can become friends and you can be yourself and you can drop the mask drop the mask yeah it's be yourself

fuck it's me you know and meet new friends tune into the human mycelium by doing that I'm very excited about that and some other things are happening in the human mycelium too really support all of you because there's so much potential and you know if we combine all of that we can change whatever we want to change

we want to change education the numbers George we now have 7, 8,000 members but when we have 7,8 million members we change education like how we change things within a white paper in 15 minutes. Yeah, it's amazing to think of relationships as currency into, currency is not the right word, but it's amazing to see the octopus movement example how quickly I can move across

the world from Dubai and Jana or talking to Jennifer or reaching out to Karen or reaching just across the islands to different people. But you can reach across the world in just the WhatsApp and the founder app. I reach across the world multiple times. and learn things and talk to people and get help and it's really cool. And at 8,000, I can't imagine what it'll be like at 8 million. I can see the possibilities of us. It's just, it's mind-blown. It's exponential.

And I love the fact that we don't have a marketing machine to get the number. We're not doing anything. It's just organic growth, which is the best way. Yeah. It's not self-hypnosis into a method and to get the 8 million. No, it needs to be organic. It needs to be there. Yeah. And that's what's happening.

Same thing with the think tank for the kids. I've been thinking a long time about that. It's all about the right time and the right language. And then I met Sumi Lim from Tiltree. And she's from Korea. She's in Silicon Valley. She has such a wonderful platform for kids. And now we're working together.

he's helping out with these kids to do a think tank these kids have the young brains not the old ones that are isolated in the laws of thoughts kids don't have that i'm so curious what they think also on big topics let's ask a group of five to 12 year olds how they think about homelessness how should we solve this. Right? So excited about this, George. Yeah. Yeah, it's

solving homeless. It's so easy a five-year-old can do it. You know, it's interesting to think that they probably have such an innocent answer. And what we're doing, it's probably, it's pretty obvious on some level.

Maybe corporations shouldn't be able to speculate on buying empty homes. you know at least that would help maybe change it from home from a homeless problem to a houseless problem and then it kind of goes away there's plenty of houses you know what why don't we put people in houses like there's plenty of open ones right there but yeah and and sometimes and this is when i discovered when i was homeless george sometimes you just need help this is something we don't want to say up loud as well sometimes you know and then it's no we we don't feed them we teach them how to catch fish right again yeah yeah yeah sometimes in your life you just need help yeah

it's not working sometimes yeah and and and we go back in and it's not okay to make mistakes sometimes you make a mistake and you need someone to help you to hold your hands and say okay let's fix this yep and and helping is not giving advice that's not helping Helping is not doing a course. Helping is not finding a coach. Helping means someone holds your hand and says, let's do this together. I will do this or I will do this for you. Because it's not working for you right now.

It's, you have a blue screen. It's not working. Sometimes we just need help. And then when we're okay, or when something is solved, then we can learn. And sometimes it's good not to get help and to be in a space of misery and you have to help yourself

and you get into new connections in your brain. But what is not right is that we're caught up in the system making things even worse as they are. Not helping is one thing, but making it worse is another thing. And many systems around homelessness, makes it even worse as it is. And we need to talk about that.

And language again. Yeah. George, if I say homeless, everybody, everybody's linear thinking automatically turns on. You have an image of a homeless person. You have your ideas. You know how it smells. You know how it looks.

It's their fault. It's their choice. There's so many. ideas that people have immediately. So many thoughts. You might be wrong. And I love, you know, when I'm in the city, I'm hardly ever in the city.

I don't need anything. So why would I be in the city? But okay. Recently I was there with my daughter to buy something for a birthday party. And we saw a homeless guy sitting in the street. So we went for a coffee and something to eat and gave it to him.

and sit next to him for a few minutes. So happy. Makes me cry because I know the feeling. Nobody sees you. When you were homeless, did you, sometimes I think that the symptoms people have, it's not a symptom of the individual. It's a symptom of the society.

Like when we have so many homeless people, that's a symptom of a society that's sick, right? Even though your internal dialogue or your particular thought patterns may be unhealthy, it's probably a set of reoccurring, repeating questions of, I made this mistake, I fucked up, I'm a loser, I'm a loser. It's just this, you're stuck. You're stuck in this rotating loop. But isn't that also fair to say that's a problem of society? Like, that's a direct reflection of how society thinks. well you use the word unhealthy you know it's maybe you're unhealthy maybe you're sick maybe you have a mental disease maybe you can't cope with something and you go into drugs to escape the world you live in i i remember so well standing there in line at at 630 in the morning at the office of the government looking at all these people and i was thinking i get it I get it. I understand why you go into alcohol or drugs.

Yeah. I get it. You don't want to be here. Nobody wants to be here. Right. And then and there are people, you know, saying people that have never been homeless, people that are stuck in the laws of thought, wearing tight underwear saying it's their choice. They want to be homeless. Of course they don't want to be homeless. And they're trying to escape. And it's same thing. i was talking to jeremy jeremy something he did he worked as a coach in prisons you know george

that 80 percent of the people in prisons have neurodiversity i didn't know that that's a whole different story you know you don't fit in the box you get into trouble and some people find that trouble inspiring and create things for themselves and meet the right people and the right support and the right tribe right and and some of us make mistakes and we're not allowed to make mistakes and i'm don't get me wrong don't hurt anyone don't steal anything you know that's a mistake you know this is mine this is yours it's a separation there and there's no question about it but it's it's fascinating to think about that. Why are we using drugs, people?

Why are we doing that? Why do we want to escape the thinking? We always say they want to escape the world, but they want to escape thinking. It shuts down the thinking when you're drunk, when you're high on cannabis. It stops your thinking. Something happened that creates these thoughts

that you want to remove. Some people need help. I think most of us. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a symptom. You know, and you, I talk to a lot of people in the world of plant medicine, and it seems to me that addiction, PTSD, a lot of the, you could probably throw a dart

at anything into DSM-5, and it's probably, maybe there's some genetic proclivity, but it's a symptom of our society. You know, there's that great quote that says in a society that's sick, the most well-adjusted people are the sickest. Like people are falling off left and right. Like that is, there's a huge problem. And it's probably not a weak individual. It's probably a symptom of the society we live in. And I think that neurodiversity is the answer to that. Like coming to terms with, oh, I'm not dumb. I'm not dumb. You know what? I just do it different. Like that is so liberating, Perry,

to so many people that I've talked to in the movement are like, yeah, I remember when I had that moment too. Like for so long, I just thought that I didn't get it, or I was stupid, or I was dumb, or I just got to do this thing forever. But there's real liberation and understanding that the way you think might be better. It's definitely better for you, you know,

as an individual. Yeah. I have a good friend. He says to me, It's so cool. Perry, the system is made for me. Makes me so happy. That's the other sign. Yeah. And he comes in his electric pores and he's very successful, lots of money and he's very happy. System works for me. But it's, that's wonderful. That's why we created the system. But it's, it appears to me that that system is not working for everyone. And it looks like the system is not working for. it's less and less. The number is getting less and less of the people saying the system works for me.

And we're trying to fit into that system. And I think that's the biggest problem. We're trying to fit in these laws of thought. And then as long as I do this and then I'm in this self-epnosis and I get there. And oh, God, if I don't get there, if it doesn't work, where am I then? You know, who am I? Yeah, identity. That's a crisis.

And that's why you could find yourself without an identity. You know, when you lose everything. And you could speak to this more than anybody you have already a little bit. But when you lose everything, you feel like you lose your identity. But I thought it was right? Maybe you could speak to you. No. No.

You are who you are. No, you don't. That's the beauty. You think that, though, right? You think that. Because, yeah, thank you for addressing this. read an article Mark sent this to me

there are two kinds of people those that identify themselves based on the relationship the relationship towards others the relationship towards your job your title

so if George you identify yourself on a relationship then you identify the fact that you're a podcast host people that identify themselves and the relationship to their bank account, to being a father or a mother,

a parent, spouse, to be married. That's identifying yourself based on the relationship, the relationship with your Mercedes-Benz. Quite a few people identify themselves on the basics of

the relationship towards their car they drive. And you have people, and those are the more non-linear and mirror diverse people that identify themselves based on the values i identify myself on the values of curiosity of love wuwe that's who i am and wui is chinese for effortless effort to play the game as beautiful as possible end of story and i'm not focused in the end result it's about the game and how we play them and how we live live life in a beautiful way it's it's it's

It's an art. That's my identification. So when you become, when you're in a situation that destroys that relationship, identification. So for me being homeless, nothing changed. But I can imagine that for others, it changes everything. Because if you identify yourself based on the house you live at, the status you have, the job you have, and you lose everything, you're gone.

And you go into drugs because you can't handle that. If you're based, if you identify yourself based on your values, then you see nothing changes. And I think that's more healthy. And that's also why, you know, some of the people in corporate, they identify themselves based on being colleagues, an employee of the company.

And now I'm touching a point with you, George. And that's why they rob and backstabbing and destroying the planet because they identify themselves being a member of that company. And therefore, as members of that identification within the company, it's okay to create taflon that creates cancer to everyone. There are no values. right it's the identification of being together and being colleagues and that's the most important thing that's your identification that's number one you know in the pyramid who are you so when you lose everything and you identify yourself and based on the relationship everything change if you identify yourself based on value nothing changed and that's more freedom i think and that's

Getting the ability to see yourself anew and realize you're still here, getting the ability to redefine you, getting rid of those relationships that were chained to you. Is that why it's a gift to get rid of those? It's creating silence. It's removing all the noise around us. It creates space to really create your own thoughts. You know, it's all making a noise, your job, your house, your family.

It's, they're all expectations. So when you remove everything and you don't even have money to buy a brand, I mean everything, no car, nothing. It removes all the noise. It brings you into a quiet space where you can tap into your own true self, your true self, your true. life. You're non-linear thinking. And when you when you've been there once,

you will never lose it again. I don't think so. And I've seen that with people that are quiet. Find that quiet people. Not conscious. You know, conscious is still a word again. Conscious is still something that is created

by the laws of thought and define it as conscious. So we cannot define it. So then we use the word empty. So then it's at least, we need to use one word to describe something we can. So let's use emptiness, silent, quiet, rather than conscious.

And these people all say the same thing. They've been there once. They discovered something. They opened up a door and it will never, it will change their lives. It will never leave ever again. And for me, that was homelessness. For me, the,

awareness of nothing changes but it changes everything for the people around me and they made it even more difficult for me that changed everything that made me disconnect to the loss of thought okay let's disconnect there's no relationship there anymore when you say anymore when you look was there ever a relationship there of course i was driving my sapp convert I was driving to France to buy my favorite wine. You know, that's who I was. I've been an asshole. I've done so many things wrong in my life.

I tried my best to be someone who I was not. Keeping up appearances, trying to be something else because I had different expectations of myself. let it go yeah this is who I am you know almost bold beard nail polish make mistakes when I write and read dyslexia make so many stupid mistakes you know and and I mean well and sometimes I can be an asshole I say things that are not appropriate and I'm not doing it on purpose. This is it.

Do you think dyslexic? You know what I mean by that? If you see letters backwards or reverse sometimes, do you also play out situations or events in your life when you play them in your mind? I don't understand your question. So it seems to me, like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but in the process of dyslexia, when maybe when you're reading, like you see words or letters inverted or backwards?

I'm saying is that also a similar process in your thought patterns? Like is being dyslexic more than just seeing words on a page differently? Is it also seeing the whole world and relationships differently? I don't know because this is the only way how I see things. So I cannot compare this with anything else. so I have no clue maybe sounds cool

but I don't know if that's the case you know I just fuck up when I read and write I write down I think I write down meditation and I write down mediation and then someone sends me a message dude what is a global

mycelium mediation it's meditation but you wrote down mediation I said oh that's fun you know maybe meditation is a form of mediation I don't know I can't see it joy yeah and and the way I think is the way I think and I there is no reference to anything else because that's the reality that's in my head so I don't know you know we have dyslectic thinking I like that from a marketing perspective

but what the hell doesn't mean so we see we can see patterns we can see the bigger picture Yeah, maybe in reference to to what. So what is normal? Yeah, what is right? I don't know what normal is. For me, this isn't the normal. Yeah. And I'm just aware of the fact that some people freak out when I make a spending mistake.

And that's fine. You know, say to me whenever make a mistake, because then I can change that. And I don't have a problem with that anymore. I used to be very upset when someone would correct me. Not anymore. Go for it. It's interesting. I'm hopeful, Perry, that the change that we have begun to see is blossoming and it's gaining momentum.

Because I think that a nonlinear world, a world of nonlinear thinkers is a world where there's lots more avenues open to people. And I think that's what's going on, man. The Octopus. I'm stoked to be a founding member. I've met so many cool people through there. I'm stoked to have these conversations. I'm stoked to see the future of what happens and working as a team and meeting so many like-minded people. But before I let you go, man, where can people find you?

What are you coming up and what are you excited about? The octopus movement.org, sign up, reach out. There's also a link to my pick my brain profile and you can book me for 20 minutes to Zoom conversation. Sometimes I get the message from someone else. Yeah, they can't reach you. Bullshit. Everybody can reach me. Everybody can talk to me.

You just book me and we have a conversation. I'm happy to meet you. So reach out to the octopus movement. Tonight we're doing a, well, tonight, that's tomorrow morning for you, George, at eight in the morning for you, eight in the evening for me. We do a meet the other octopye. We do that every other week. and people in the octopus movement and outside of the octopus movement

they come together. We have a special guest. The special guest creates four to five questions and we go into breakout rooms. It's fun. You know, it's just, hey, who are you? And then you're all of a sudden in a breakout room that with someone you have never seen

or with someone you have seen many times and you discuss the question of the special guest. It's one hour of fun. And we do that every other week. So that's today. tomorrow is the dialogue session we're publishing the white paper on mental health soon sign up to be an angel donor who doesn't want to be an angel right and michel is an angel thank you michel who doesn't want to be an angel answer that question to me people who doesn't want to be an angel

who doesn't want to get a little octopus in the mill let's do the test of jennifer hills optimax and let's connect even more and find like-minded people that's rock and roll with that and create we have the situation room where people can share their ideas and then you can say this is public or private private it only goes to me and the team and public goes on the website and if you have any ideas and how we can do things oh so much is happening george yeah thank you for doing this thank you for doing your dialogues. I think you're you're doing really a good a good job with your podcast. I think it's interesting how you you share your thoughts, but you don't want to convince your thoughts to the audience. You think about what you're hearing and you're a real nonlinear thinker. So thank you for doing this. Good job. Yeah, I appreciate it. I'm thankful to thankful to be around cool people and get to participate in some people's dreams. And I'm very grateful for people that participate in mine.

So right back at you into everybody there. And we'll hang on briefly afterwards. I'll just shoot the breeze with you for a moment afterwards. But ladies and gentlemen, everybody that joining the conversation, everybody that is looking to make a better world. And if you find maybe you don't check a box that you are not a huge fan of the laws of thought, then reach out to the octopus movement. The links will be down below and reach out to Perry.

He talks to everybody. He's not joking. He can reach it. He will call you. He will contact you, set up an appointment. And the octopus movement is doing some really cool things. There's some great people in there. I've met a lot of them.

So I hope that I continue to do that. And I hope more people will look at the octopus movement and get involved because we need more people. And let's get up to 8 million. That's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen. I hope you have a beautiful day. Aloha. Aloha. Thank you.