TrueLife - Power, Purpose, & Peace

Episode Date: January 16, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/In todays conversation we talk about the possibilities of 2023 with special guest Kevin Holt. We are joined by Benjamin C George in hour two. Certified coach by Anthony Robbins.- Certfied NLP Practitioner by Dr. JohnGrinder, co-founder of NLP- Trained personally with Wim Hof in the WimHof Method.- Certified breathwork, meditation and yoga instructor by the Bihar School of Yoga in India.www.kevinholt.mewww.kevinholtbook.comhttps://benjamincgeorge.com/https://benjamincgeorge.com/product/no-absolutes-a-framework-for-life/Music: https://youtu.be/nThfHcRNQI0 One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry Born from the blaze The poem is Angels with Rifles The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphini Check out the entire song at the end of the cast Ladies and gentlemen

It is Saturday We're back with a fan favorite Mr. Kevin Holt Coming to us live from Bali he's an author, a speaker, a consultant. He's a man of mini hats. You've seen the podcast before. His page will be down in the links if you want to go and check him out.

Word on the street is he has a breath course that if you maybe put in some sort of promo code, he might be giving you a deal on that, but I'll kick it over to him. Kevin, how's it going, my friend? We're back. Here we are. We'll be hopping. What will be Wi-Fi hopping today, people? One Wi-Fi to the other.

One of them all work. So, Kevin, I talked to a guy yesterday who's in Jamaica, and they do a retreat down there. And I've seen a lot of these different retreats. But one thing I really liked about this retreat that I kind of see as a trend, and I like to get your opinion on it, is that they're beginning to measure the perf— like, they have particular EKG machines, and they're beginning to measure brainwaves in conjunction with— the ceremony and the trip. So they're finding ways for you to go down and have a ceremony, be it ayahuasca.

In this particular case, it's magic mushrooms, but you go down and you take whatever your dose is, whatever you've decided on, and then they follow it up with a monitored EKG machine, and they're starting to read these different waves and understand what's happening inside the brain. I see that as a trend in the world of psychedelics and retreats. Have you heard about that? And do you see any other trends that are kind of coming that way? I have heard about this. I actually talked to a guy.

It's a while ago now. It must be like six, seven years ago. His name, I have to remember his name. It's Eric. I remember his last name. But he was on some podcast I heard. I think he was on the Shane Moss podcast, who's a comedian who also talks about psychedelics and things like that, especially DMT. And I don't know if he's still doing it, but his organization is called Mike O'MaMas.

meditations, and he was doing that in Jamaica because it's legal there. So he was taken, I believe he was American. He was taking Americans there for, I think, a week at a time. And I think he specialized in family therapies and also women's, I think he had a women's empowerment module that he was doing that with. Again, I don't know if he's still doing it. I know this is before COVID, so I don't know if COVID totally shut down his operation. But yeah, I did talk to that.

As a matter of fact, I was talking to him about offering post-session coaching follow-ups to the people that went. Because as you experience yourself, many people have had, when you take a trip of mushrooms or whatever else, you have all these deep insights, all this self-reflection and areas of improvement, and you feel really hyped up to make change or do something completely different for like a few days or a week. And then you sort of forget, it's like a dream.

almost that you try to hold on to for a while then it fades so yeah that was what i was talking him about was like trying to keep people on that the track of their insight after the session for a few months um but then it didn't really work out and uh i didn't hear from him again and i think he might have stopped doing it i'm not sure but i don't know if he was as scientific as what you're suggesting I don't know if you actually measured brain waves or heart rates or anything. So that's pretty interesting to take the more scientific way. Yeah, it piggybacks on another thought that I was having a while back. And I posted this out on LinkedIn and a few other chats.

It was this idea of, you know, it's been my experience. And a few people that I've spoken with, when you take mushrooms, it seems to come in different waves, like almost like it, you have this, you know, you start to feel it creep up on you. And the best way to describe it seems to be like a wave. And I think most people would agree with that. Like it's like a wave of intensity. All of a sudden you find yourself in some deep introspective rabbit hole thinking about this thing.

And then it kind of backs off. And like, oh, whoa, okay. And then another wave comes. And I was trying to figure out like what is it that causes that particular, you know, mechanism of action? Like, why is it waves that it comes in? And I thought, could we look to oceanography or could we look to cosine waves or trigonometry and figure out like, why is it that it comes in waves like that? You got any thoughts on that?

No, I've never really thought about it. But I think everything is waves. If you break it down like that. I mean, life comes in waves. Emotions come in wave. Grief, like if you ever experienced grief, that comes in waves, right? It's super intense in beginning. You get a little relief.

It comes back. maybe you have longer periods of relief back and forth kind of thing. So it just seems to be another way that life manifests itself as a, you know, something I've given zero thought to, which is kind of like shooting off the hip answer. Yeah, yeah. I thought it was like, I was thinking about it for a long time and I,

I work over at UH sometimes and I was talking to a mycologist over there. And I asked him, I go, you know what? I was just thinking. And I told him the same thing. And his initial answer was, like, well, my thoughts would be that as the body breaks down the psilocybin, it can only break down so much at a time, I'm like, that's a pretty good answer.

And if your body's breaking down the mushrooms and then it's releasing this much psilocybin, boom, it's going to come in a wave, and then it breaks down a little more, and it breaks down a little more. But it's a fascinating thing to think about, and it does bring up the idea of bigger patterns in life. And maybe one thing we can learn from taking mushrooms is this idea of understanding patterns. You know, and I think it gets us back to what you said about life. There's all these patterns in life, whether it's grief or whether it's a mushroom trip or whether it's, you know, success or failure. It does seem to come in waves. What can you have spoken earlier on that?

Yeah. Like a trip itself to me seems like a, what's the right word? Like a holographic experience almost. if you think the idea of every part of a hologram also resembling the entire whole. So the trip is like a short representation of like the greater life path or life journey. So there will be ups and downs on the trip and they're ups and downs in life. That's just, yeah, pseudoscience for my part. It makes sense, though.

I mean, I always think of fractals when you explain stuff like that or When I hear it. Maybe that's what I meant fractals. Yeah. That's what I meant like a piece of a hole. Yep. And you can see the hole in that piece. You know, it's, it's, it's, I've heard another thing about fractals is that if you look at a mountain range, then you can tell the coastline.

Because that's, you know, no matter how far away the mountain range is, the top of the mountain range almost lines up with the coastline. And like, you wouldn't think that until, until you just take some time to really mow it over. You're like, yeah, well, of course. The mountains are being broken down. That water flows down to the coastline. So you can see a, I can think of the right, a symmetry between the coastline and the mountain range. And like, that's a part of something that's frackle

that most people don't think about. But you can see, you can see the hole in the part if you're willing to look for it. Not in every part, but it's there. It's a good way to start looking at life. And it's a good thing to meditate on, I think. It's kind of blows your mind, right? Yeah, and it's, I think what those things help us do is, I mean, we can do that at any time, really.

Yeah. During waking life, waking consciousness, we're very much wrapped up in whatever is happening at the moment, but we don't necessarily have the awareness or intentional awareness to then zoom out and then see how this little chunk of life that's happening now relates to the whole. whether it be a simple interaction with maybe it's a fight or like let's say you're having a disagreement or a fight with a loved one in that moment like how does that interaction zoomed out relate to your interactions throughout life with various people I mean I'm sure there's a connection there if you look for it but we're we're usually so into the whatever's happening now that we don't have that zoom out capacity so that's when people ask me about what psychedelics do I say it lets it lets you zoom out and and see like the greater connections between these things and that like that fractal way that you described yeah i wish it's i just wish it would stick with you right that's the frustrating part about the trip it is very much like a dream it's like you go into this ultimate knowledge and then you forget 99% of it within 48 hours and it's just this lingering memory yeah

have you found any ways to like prolong that is or like exercises do you like you keep a jury or is there some totems that you have? What do you do to hold on to that idea or to reinforce it at all? I think like intense breathwork can help. Not so much hold on, but sort of it's like a renews it. It renews some of the sensations that you might have felt during the trip. So through the body memory, you can kind of remember some of your insights and feel them. and then there have been certain times of in meditation also like often usually breathwork combined with meditation

where I was able to kind of get back into that state I haven't happened very clearly once it was I think a couple months after my first DMT trip or maybe my second one that I did I did this I don't remember what it was called it was like activated breathing meditation and by the end of it Need to get that. No, sorry about that. It's all right. No, no, I just take a break if it's an emergency. But by the end of it, I was like fully, almost fully back in the DMT realm. Not to the intensity of the, of that I was in during the trip, but the same like five MEODMT is known for ego dissolution and just all the layers peeling away and just being pure awareness.

And I was able to kind of get back into that state for a couple minutes in meditation. So yeah, those are the only two ways that I found. I would say regular intense breathwork can keep it, can keep it going if that's what you want to do. So that makes me, that brings up a question to me. And I don't know this for sure, but in my experience, you know, the same way that we think about things. Like if you want to learn something, you think about it all the time. You have repetitive behavior. They say repetition is the mother of skill.

So if I want to learn about philosophy and Carl Young, I'll read Carl Young's books and I'll listen to his lectures and I'll begin to create pathways. So every time I see a Carl Young book, I'll begin to think of it. And you strengthen those pathways. You strengthen that memory. You strengthen that synaptic gap. I think the same thing is happening. if you take a lot of mushrooms or if you take a lot of DMT,

you know, I'm wondering if you are building up neural pathways that make that particular state of mind something that is more easily accessible. You know, like if you, everybody's had this experience of being in love or falling for someone or being in love with someone. You think about that person all the time. Do you think the same thing follows?

Like if you take, if you find yourself on a regimen of psilocybin or LSD or microdosing or macro dosing, do you think that you begin to create new neural pathways that allow you to stay in that higher state of consciousness, you can access it easier and be in it longer? Does that sound plausible to you? It does to a degree, but I think that at least some of these substances,

they have that effect where they just stop working, right? Like if you probably tried it, where if you take a bunch of mushrooms and then you try it again in like a day or two. It just either doesn't work or it's much diminished. I don't know what the reason for that is. There must be a biochemical reason for that. But it's honestly not something I've tried.

I'm not really interested in doing that a lot, just personally. Because I think there is a danger. I very much like to advocate people trying these experiences because they're very informative and, and can be life-changing. But I do think there's a danger in kind of like putting the pen, not dependency, because it's not the same as like a physical addiction. Right.

But you put it on this kind of pedestal where anytime you have a problem or something, oh, it's like I need to go back into that space to figure it out. And maybe, like maybe it works, but I just, I just am a little wary of giving something power over you to that extent. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes perfect sense. I could see how that could... That's why I haven't tried it, but I could see it's... I could see how it would be possible.

Like if you were to keep building those neural pathways and making them more habitual and reinforcing them and like doing breathwork every day and meditating every day, you may very well be able to stay on that, whatever you want to call a path of elevated vibration or whatever term you want to give it. It seems very plausible that you could do that for sure. Yeah, I was... I've been running a self-experiment where I've tried that, where I've been taking a low dose. I stopped it for now, but I took a low dose, like maybe a half a gram every day for like 30 days.

And on like every fifth day, every Saturday, I would take somewhere between three and a half and seven grams. And it was, I didn't find the tolerance there that I'm told was there. I don't know if that's because I'm sensitive or maybe it's a confirmation bias or something on my part. You know, I'm not a scientist. I didn't test it any way. It's all I have is a subjective understanding of how I felt. But I didn't really find the tolerance that, you know, when you read stuff like the psychedelic explorers guide by James Fateman or you, you listen to a lot of people saying, oh, look, if you don't take it within three days. me I didn't find that. But what I did find is at first a lot of clarity and a lot of insight,

but also a lot of alienation. And I want to describe what I mean by alienation in that I didn't find myself at the top of the mountain top all the time. It wasn't like I was having these incredible insights all the time like you do, if you haven't taken mushrooms for six months, then you take a big dose. But I did find myself maybe standing on the foothill close to the mountain of dreams over there. And it's isolating because I felt like I could understand a little bit more. But the more that I felt I could understand, the more I felt like people thought I was a weirdo. So it was like, I just people would say stuff and I'm like, oh, that doesn't even make sense to me. And so it was an interesting experiment, you know? I understand that very well.

And even without the psychedelics, I feel like people think I'm a very strange person. my colleagues at work used to think I was crazy and stuff. So I can resonate with the alienation even just without the substance. I can't imagine like if you're doing it regularly. It must be even more enhanced. Yeah, it's a trip. I, you know, I wanted to shift gears too on some, I had another question because I haven't talked to you for a while. And I was thinking about the title that I put up here, power, purpose, and peace. And, you know, we've just gone through COVID. and we've just gone through all these kind of calamities and something. And you've done something, Kevin, that I admire that not a whole lot of people do.

And that is kind of decide to take your life in a way that you find not only exciting, but liberating. And I'm wondering if there's, I think COVID has woken up a lot of people. And it has allowed people to understand maybe the job they're going to isn't something they love. maybe the person are with isn't the kind of person that they really want to be with. Maybe they've changed. I think there's a lot of transformation going on right now. What advice would you give to somebody who's starting to come to the idea that, hey, this life I'm living isn't really what I want? So I would say two main points with that journey.

The first thing is, step one, is figure out who, figure out what your voice is. And it's hard to do because there is so much information and distraction in the world. So, and we're programmed to look at what other people do, right? So you are going to naturally be influenced by what other people are doing and thinking that that's what you want to do or what you should be doing. And so the step there is to try to get out of that and just be what you. yourself for a time in specific ways so that you're blocking out these messages, whether it's people on social media, displaying a life that you think is real or that you think you want, or whether it's your boss trying to lay out a plan for you, or whether it's your parents and their expectations, or whether it's the news, media, lying to you or whatever. I think step one is block out as much external information as possible.

Turn your TV off. Get off social media. Spend some time. Just go in nature for a while. Maybe even unplug from the internet. Bring a journal with you. Bring some pages in a pen. Go for long walks.

Write. Do that every day. It's been like a couple of weeks just doing that. And I think that is going to help reset and get rid of these external influence. and try to get you to get that internal voice that you have that knows who you are and what you want and is more able to guide you from within. So that's kind of like the step one in figuring out what kind of person you are and what you want. And then the step two is basically just a decision.

And for me, the decision was after I felt like too long, I, how do I put this? Like I was a round peg trying to fit into a square hole and I would try that over and over again. I'm like I kept trying to fit into these like roles or models of what was supposed to happen and what other people thought I was supposed to be doing. And I would like take that on for a while and then it would never really last because I was forcing it to some degree. Like it wasn't it wasn't in line with who I am and what I want. And at some point, I just, I don't know when this happened, but I just clicked. I was like, you know what? I'm tired of fitting into a square hole.

I'm going to look for a round hole because I'm a, sorry, whatever I said before, square, square around, but I'm going to find the hole that fits whatever peg that I am. And, and that's pretty much it. Like, I'm not going to compromise on that. I would, I would rather be homeless. I would rather not have any money than continuing to force something that doesn't feel good. and it seems maybe a little bit extreme to say I'd rather be homeless, but I think I actually, I remember getting to that point where I was just like so not into

whatever my life was. And I was like, I would literally rather just have nothing than keep doing this. And that's really the point you got to get to to make that decision. Like what would you rather experience and continuing on? So it was a bit wordy, I guess, but those are the main two things, I think. No, those are great points. Sometimes I think that you have to get to a point, whether through inspiration or through desperation. You know, and it's only once you either hit rock bottom or you're so inspired that you can begin to imagine yourself as a different person.

It sounds silly and it sounds crazy, but you have to be able to imagine yourself as a different. as a different person if you want to become a different person. And a lot of us can have, like, we can think about it. We can read a book or something. Maybe we get inspired. But it's a pretty good exercise in imagination just to take some time, whether it's out in nature with your notebook, or maybe it's through psychedelics, or maybe it's with a close friend,

but probably going to be, you're probably going to be alone. It's probably the best time to do it. And just imagine yourself living a completely different life. But I mean, imagine it vividly. What would it be like? Where would you be? What kind of friends would you have? What would you look like?

Would you have a different hairstyle? Would you have a different car? Would you do have an exotic place? Would it be a cold place? Would you have a different demeanor? Would all of a sudden you'd be kind of, you know, rude? Or would you be happier? But if you can go through that and just build a psychological profile for your

yourself, what you are now, and imagine someone totally different. I think that that's a good place to begin. That's hard to do, though, right? That's a good place to begin. And that's why I stress step one, because when you're doing those visualizations and imaginations, unless you, unless you spend some time figuring out what you really want, it's going to be influenced by what other people think you should have. And the problem there is it ends up being an inauthentic desire. It's not actually what you want. And the way I've come to understand this concept of manifestation and flow is that the world responds to authentic desires.

So if you're putting something out there that ends up being inauthentic or superficial or something like that, it may not happen for you or it may take longer or you may get frustrated because it's not happening the way you want it to. So try to get to that authentic self first. It will make things easier. That's why I think blocking out some of the information. important. When you went through this step, Kevin, did you find that a lot of the first attempts were other people's ideas? I know that when I began trying to figure stuff out, I went through

a lot of phases where I was just living out someone else's ideas of what I thought were cool. But that's the external influences, right? Yeah, that's external influences. I went through a number of phases where I thought I found something that I wanted to do. But then upon reflection, I realized it was just because someone was selling me something that they're selling me that this is the way to get that thing that I want. So then I would get focused on the this method. But as time we're on, I realized, oh, that's not really me. That's not really, I'm not really that into it.

But I still want, I still want what this was promising, but not in the way, you know what I mean? I do. So I went through a few iterations of that. I try a lot of different things and I'm not saying I've figured it out but I like yeah as time goes on I get closer to what I'm what I like

to how I like to live I'm getting way closer now because now I have like different like an eclectic mix of different incomes like different jobs and stuff like that and I don't really feel beholden to anybody anymore which is nice

even though I'm not like rolling in money or anything right But you had the courage and the, I think there's something more than courage it takes. I think it takes sacrifice, courage, and probably a little bit of luck to get to a point where you can find different revenue streams, where you can find different things coming. And like, you really have to develop who you are as a person in order to branch out and have different revenue streams coming in. Can you talk a little bit about that? I think there's a confluence. There's like a certain confluence of things that happens before you feel like really aligned.

And part of it is belief in oneself and having self-confidence. Part of it is managing emotions because fear and worry will come up. So you have to figure out how to master those. I can't really eliminate fear, but you can't control it to a certain extent. Right. So I think it's like self-confidence, managing or eliminating worry and fear, self-knowledge, and not giving a shit. So those four things. Like not, not, not, I mean, you give a shit, but not so much.

Like, you try something and you put your effort into it, but you're not so attached to whether it's this thing, right? Maybe this thing isn't going to work and maybe it's something else. but you're trying something, and that may lead to the other thing. But if you get attached to this thing, and that doesn't work, that may then crush your self-esteem and make you worry, and you worry about money again, and then you kind of like, you're off track. So there's a non-attachment to it, too. And, like, sort of, for me, ego gets in the way often,

because we think of ourselves as this whatever, like, I'm a office worker, or I'm a UPS guy or whatever. And then you want to, instead of overcoming the ego, you replace it with something else. No, no, I'm not the office worker. I'm a coach. Oh, no, I'm a breath teacher. Right.

And then now you're just attached to a new thing. And maybe that'll work out for you. But if it doesn't, then you're still kind of on the same path of, like it might kind of like destroy your belief again. And then you might feel lost. So it's like, it's a bumpy road. this constant iterative process, which I don't think I'm explaining particularly well. But that's how it seemed to me to like the path to try to figure out where the hell we're going.

Yeah. But anyway, to answer you, you did ask like how it all came about. Yep. So I think for like a year, I did nothing at all. And when I mean nothing, I was still doing things. like I was still working out, doing yoga or whatever, and going to events, but I was doing nothing productive and not even learning anything. Like, it used to feel like I had to do something all the time.

Like, even if I wasn't working, I had to learn something new, like learn a new language or learn a new skill or whatever. But this was like really nothing for about, for like a full year. And then when you do that, things will just come up. and you'll get an idea at some point, or maybe you'll get, for me, I got bored of doing nothing after a while. Where I was like, all right, well, I quit my job, I quit my career, I lived off savings for a year. I need to, I need an income again. Like, I need to do something, right?

So then it happened pretty fast for me where I was just like, it was only maybe six months ago where I was like, yeah, I should probably do something. Like I should probably find some income or whatever or like make some money. And then, yeah, then you just start applying yourself. You just see what's out there. You see if there's anything that fits your vision of how your life should go. And so, yeah, I found some freelance work. I'm doing tutoring, like helping college kids online. It's like a super flexible job.

I'm still doing some coaching sometimes. Right now I'm coaching someone through, they're in Japan and they're having problems with Japan and like learning the language or whatever. So I've got like this eclective mix of, oh, we're doing a villa management thing that came out of nowhere too, where he had this opportunity to rent a villa here for a low price and then refurnish it, remodel it, and then put it on Airbnb. So yeah, like all this stuff just started happening. Probably within a short time span, I'd say it all happened within like three months. But it didn't happen until I was like, I need to do something. Like I'm ready to be productive. I'm ready to do like fine work or make money or make something happen.

And for that year before, I didn't do that at all. So there really is a power to, okay, this is my intention. I'm going to do this now. And just like letting it work out. And I didn't like a lot of people tell you, and I don't think it's false, but they have to tell you you have to know exactly what you want and have that very clearly. in your minds. And that works for many people, but it's never really worked for me because I was never the person

and I'm still not the person that can tell you I want to be this in five years or 10 years. My issue is that I don't really want to be anything. Like I have no interest in becoming sex, right? I get no enjoyment of visualizing like, oh, I'm going to be a speaker in front of thousands of people. Some people really get excited about that idea. I don't feel like I need to be or become anything other than what I am. I just need ways to to make my lifestyle work the way that I wanted to.

So it's a little bit more broad and it might take longer and you may feel a little bit lost and less clear. But yeah, it's just that's my little, it's a bit more windier way of doing it. I don't know if that made sense to you. It totally does. It's awesome to hear. It's a total unique perspective to, to, I think it speaks volumes to the idea of so many of us have a programmed idea of what success is. But if you take time to just be alone with your thoughts, your definition is success.

And by yours, I mean the individual listening to this or any individual out there. Your idea of success is not the same as everybody. else's idea of success, even though it may share some characteristics, even though it may be similar. If you're being honest, you're a unique person and your idea of success is probably different than other people. So when we try to create these boxes of what success is, I think it's important to understand that those boxes have been created for you. And so many of us find it convenient and easy. it's like when you take a chicken you can shove their head to the chalk line and that chicken will stick right on that chalk line we'll move it's hypnotized and i think that's a big part of what's happened in our culture for the last 200 years since

industrialization is this idea that if you want to be successful like the guy on television if you want to be you know pick your favorite movie character like if you want that then you have to stay down here and work and be, you know, this factory machine. And, like, it's not true. It's not true. I'm not saying you can't get there doing that. Plenty of people can work a nine to five and retire at the age of 55 and be happy. And that's, that's a way to do it.

There's nothing wrong with it. And in fact, I admire that way. That's, it may be harder to do that. I wish I could. Like, I envy those people because it's like, it's all, it's all planned out, right? It's pretty comfortable. you have a good living standard and then yeah you put in your 20, 30 years

and then you're just chilling. I mean, it sounds like a great way to do it. I got incredibly bored doing that, but there are some people that like it. I wish I liked it. Yeah, I don't know if there's anybody that really likes it or if they just feel stuck in it.

I don't know either. I think there's probably some people that really like it. But I think a lot, yeah. Go ahead, sir. Do you think people like being told what to do? Yeah. I think a lot of people, yeah. I think a lot of people like that.

I don't think people like thinking for themselves. I don't think people like feeling lost and disconnected from society. And those are all things that are going to happen if you're going to go down this road. It's scary. Like, it can be scary. Definitely you'll feel lost for large amounts of time. And you'll feel like you're doing something wrong. and everyone will think you're weird and they may kind of like shut you out but envy you at the same time and it's like weird dynamic and you may lose friendships like it's not the easiest way to go about things so you have to be comfortable with being by yourself being kind of lost and also false false milestones like for me there were milestones on this path that I thought

were the end, but they weren't. And I had to, and I maybe got distracted there for a while and then had to keep going. Here's a good, here's a one, here's a, a, a comment from the incredible no absolute pod. Oh, from Ben. Benjamin C. George. You could come on. I don't, yeah.

Let me invite him right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, complacency. Exactly. So it's just complacent in whatever they tell you, what success is. and you're like, okay, that's sorted. It's almost like you're subscribing to a doctrine as it or religion.

You're just like, yeah, yeah, here's a success model. Just do this. And you're like, okay, cool, I'll just do that. And then that's it, simple, handled. Yeah. Yeah, I think that there's a lot of people believe that. A lot of people, you know, and I think another point to bring up to is, if you have a mortgage and you have two kids and you have a job,

it's it can be doubly scary to try to okay i'm just going to quit everything and then go start this thing i don't have any capital i don't have anything but i'm just going to quit everything on some level i think you get to a point where you feel as if you're i don't want to say um stuck or or blocked in but i think that there's some elements of that like i think people feel trapped at that point and that's there may be a lot of truth to being trapped in that situation yeah i mean it's destructive. If you're in that scenario, if you do,

like people depend on you, right? You've probably got a partner. You've got kids or whatever. If you do something for yourself, you're kind of like blowing up. You're like a bomb blowing up on other people's lives. So yeah,

it's much harder to do. And there's, I think I mentioned before that I read these books by a guy named Jed McKenna. He talks about the concept of human, human adulthood. And he's in, yeah, human adult her is a human child.

childhood. And I've confirmed this in my own observations of humans in that people don't really grow up very often. I mean, they grow up physically, but they don't really grow up spiritually. They're still in a kind of a childish state. And they still often give their authority to institutions and belief systems outside themselves for the very reason we just mentioned that it's like complacent and it's just a model that they can follow and they don't have to think for themselves. So in an ideal world, people will become spiritual adults at the same time they become like physical adults because that's the least destructive, right? You have these awakenings and insights in your 20s maybe instead of delayed when you're like 49 or 51. You've got all these attachments and you have these insights that, oh, I'm on the wrong path. I need to make huge change because I'm miserable. But now if I do it, I'm like just going to blow up everybody else. that depends on me. Yeah.

And that's a problem. Yeah, I think it was Terrence McKenna who said that it's almost like culture is buying you off. Like, you know, as soon as you get to a point where like you could start really making a difference in culture, like where you really figured shit out and you have a little bit of money and you definitely have some insight, all of a sudden you have enough money or you lose the drive. You're like, yeah, I could do that, but I'm fucking kind of comfortable.

You know, and like, exactly. Like you're dangerous and society knows you're dangerous. So they give you just enough money to calm you down. You know what I mean? They start taking the foot off your neck a little bit. You're like, okay, I can breathe. It's interesting. Yeah, it happens in a lot of different ways.

Society does it. Religions do it. Spirituality, like gurus, you know, mindfulness teachers. A lot of the, you look at it that way. It's like, okay, well, it'll just give you a technique so that you can repeat a monster in your head and you just turn your brain off and then like you don't ever have to do anything you know yeah totally it's kind of a trap too and so there's like traps everywhere you got you think that's what I was saying about the false milestones that you kind of you think you found a technique or a belief system or

a spirituality and a lot of the time it's actually not helping you it just it's like keeping you in place yeah it does make sense it's like here just repeat this to yourself a thousand times and then you'll feel like you can get up and face the bullshit more. You know what I mean? Like, here, put these things over your eyes and you can't see. Yeah, a good example is transcendental meditation. I've never done it, but I understand it's literally just repeating a mantra over and over. And it's like, what's the point of that?

You're just trying to put, you're trying to sleep better at night? I mean, what else are you achieving? You're putting your mind to sleep. But what are you transcending by doing that? I mean, yeah, to some extent, reducing thoughts and perhaps identify. with thoughts is a nice nice byproduct of that technique but I just don't know where it's really taking you yeah it's you know on the topic of of turning your mind off or becoming numb I uh I listen to this one podcast called the Grand Theft World podcast and they um they had a really

funny interview where the uh this guy Richard he was interviewing someone and he had brought up a you know he had found some cognitive dissonance to dig into and his guest and he had he was about the vaccines i think and he's he had mentioned this case like well you know look at these two facts on the vaccines like here is you know dr fouchi here is fyser saying that these vaccines like it stops with this vaccine but then here's all this research that says that's bullshit and they knew about it and then the guy the guy that he was talking to says to him well you don't have to think about it brother like that was his answer like you don't have to think about it Why? Because we have the answers.

Yeah, exactly. The guy was saying, like, this is a huge problem. And this guy's answer was, yeah, it's a problem. But you know what? You don't have to think about it. And he sort of started laughing and he's like, that's the fucking problem, dude. You don't have to think about it. And that's that guy's solution was that he didn't think about it. Yeah, I know it's a problem. I didn't think about it.

Like, oh my God, that's crazy. Ben, how are you, my friend? Thanks for jumping in here, man. I'm doing all right. Hey, Ben. Hey, Kevin, nice to see you again, brother. Yeah, it's been a while. We were to solving the world's problems in here, Ben.

I think you had some good ideas about complacency, masquerading as success, man. Can you pull on that string a little bit? Yeah, sure. I mean, I think you guys touched on it. But it's often when in this world today, all of a sudden, you know, you have the, even the quote, unquote, American dream. You have the white picket fence. You have the family.

You have the nine to five. You have the retirement. You have all these things. You know, people will call you successful. But if you get down in the woods or down in the weeds with those people, you ask them, you know, do you feel successful or are you happy? Do you have joy in your life? All of a sudden, you end up with a lot of, well, I wish I would have done something different. It's this weird roller coaster of two.

because I just even recently talked to my old boss and the last time I had seen him he was so excited because he got this amazing offer from a new firm he was going to be head of the world unit for whatever he's doing he's like looking for it yeah it's awesome it's awesome awesome and he's been doing it for three months and I texted him I said how's it gone and he's like yeah yeah same old we have some issues like okay well it's like it's this thing it's like here's a little thing that's exciting oh let me settle in now it's not cool anymore what's the next one? Yeah, and it seems to be kind of like almost a perpetual motion device for people.

You know, whenever they just kind of resort back to this like, oh, I'm going to, there's this next level of achievement. And if I get that, then it'll solve all those problems. Yeah, it's like endless ladders. I mean, there's ladders just never stop. You know that the thing about the turtles going all the way down, it's also ladders all the way up. indeed yeah yeah it's um i remember in high school like when i first got into high school and i'm like i'm going to get the hottest girl as soon as i become like a varsity wrestler and then i'm like okay i'm going to get the hottest girl soon as i get a car

fuck that didn't happen either you know then i started realizing this pattern of like wait damn it what am i talking about like even now to this day when i start seeing myself fall into this pattern of I'm going to get this win. I'm like, remember high school? It doesn't work like that. And I think if people begin to see patterns, and maybe this takes us all the way back to the beginning of, you know, when we spoke about psychedelics and seeing patterns in your life,

whether it's if you think you're going to get something when you achieve something, I think that if you think that, you should take a look at the relationship between the thing you think you're going to achieve and what it is it takes to get. I think we spend a lot of time thinking about what we're going to get, but we don't take a lot of time thinking about the relationship between those things. Does that kind of make sense? Have you guys thought about that from that angle?

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's kind of the, it's kind of ingrained into us through, you know, media, through culture. You know, every movie that you grew up with was, you know, the guy doing, the thing to get the girl or whatever to achieve that little thing. And, you know, it paints this picture that is kind of a false equivalency with reality. Yeah. So this brings up, because the story stops like right after they get the thing.

Yeah. And they're like, they've achieved maximum happiness. They don't fast forward six months where they're like already bored with it. Right, where it all starts to fall apart. But it works so damn good. Like it works so good. It's like like the pro like think about it as programming. Like when you're little, you go to a movie, you got popcorn and like a soda and the TV.

Like the movie's this big and the sounds being pumped in. Like it is just such incredible propaganda. Like TV, you know, visual like as a media is so fucking good. Like it really can pound home decisions and it can do all the thinking. for you if you let it. And if you don't start taking a book into your own hands and you just start reading, if you don't start coming up with your own mental pictures, then you will be stuck in the world that people want you to live in,

instead of living in a world that you want to live in. I've been reading this book. It's an old book. It's called Society of the Spectacle. And I'm excited to try out my new camera right here. Watch there. I saw you doing that the other day. That's pretty interesting.

Yeah, how's that bad boy, right? Now you're your own Jamie for real. You can pull up stuff. Pull it up, George. I just need to say pull it up Jamie and I'll pretend he's over here. So this one says, the unreal unity proclaimed by the spectacle masks the class division on which the real unity

of the capitalist mode of production rests. And so this book is talking about the spectacle of society. And like everything, like when you go outside, it's a spectacle. It's a show. It's a mask. Everything, when you go out to the mall, when you go to get food, it's just like this giant production. So this guy calls it the spectacle. And I had written down, I'm going to read it from the book over here.

So just forgive me as I look away for a minute. The unreal unity proclaimed by the spectacle masks the class division on which the real unity of the capitalist mode of production rests. So number one is the unreal unity. And the note I wrote down is, the unreal unity is all the isms. It's nationalism, socialism, communism, race, gender, social orientation.

It's all the divides right there. And then the next part says like, what obliges the producers? And what obliges the producers is profit, fame, fortune, survival, and legacy. And, you know, it's just, when I started reading this book, I'm like, God, it's so true. There's all these hooks in there. There's all these little tricks, and it's a show.

And here's a, here's like, if I pull back the curtain, I can show you the cast. I can show you the guy working on the lights. And I think if people can begin to see that, if people can begin to pull back the curtain on their own life and become honest with themselves, they can start seeing that it's just a fucking spectacle. It does have maximum happiness. But what the fuck is maximum happiness? Like this is some idea given to us by Hollywood, right? What do we do about this?

You guys, what have you done in your life to maybe see this and get around it? Me personally, you know, that was kind of what led me down the path of the no absolutes and that philosophy. Right. Because I realized that the world was this way and that, you know, there was all of these propagandized experiences and isms that detracted from the actual divide the actual real divides in society um you know and for me personally it was as soon as you realize that it's Kevin and I have talked this about this before as soon as you get to that realization you're kind of like oh shit now what do you do do you just go off and you become a hermit on the on a mountain or do you engage and try to change the the status quo and I think

you know, my choice has been made is to engage and try to change the status quo. Yeah, I think that once you read, once you begin reading stuff like this, once you begin having these kind of thoughts, you know, you come to, like you said, you come to this crossroad where what are you going to do? Are you the freedom fighter? And what does it fucking mean to be a freedom fighter? If you're a freedom fighter, are you fighting freedom? Or are you someone who's fighting for freedom?

Like it's a crazy crossroad to get to. Well, and that's the thing. You know, you'll recognize yourself as the freedom fighter, as the person. He's like, hey, you guys need to be liberated from this. This is an abstraction from reality. But then the reality quickly sets in is that, oh, this is freaking ingrained at every single level of culture and society. Where do you start? You know, what do you do?

And yeah, it's, it's definitely. a daunting thing and I think that's part of the you know the the sorcery behind it if you will is is that once even if you get to that realization all of a sudden it's like well what the hell am I going to do about it as a yeah for better or for worse for better for worse I think I've gone the track of like engaging less with everything uh as opposed to like trying to really change well I think that's part of the past because I did the same thing for the longest time it was like I realized as soon as I realized that I spent years six, seven years just being like, well, I'm checking out. You know, I'm going to set up my shop over here and I'm done. Like, let the world burn, you know, type idea.

But I think, you know, the very fact that we're all sitting here discussing this suggests otherwise. Yeah. I think for me there's also phases to it because like I, for all throughout COVID, I was like, super engaged with the debate online. And I was like trying to counteract the propaganda and this information and all the controlling mechanisms out there. I don't know if it had any effect, probably like as a part of a greater effort to try to get people to think differently. Maybe it did.

But then it just seems like that got replaced by something else to some level. And then I'm like, fuck, man, I don't know what to do anymore. And then it's just lately I feel like I'm just not engaging as much. Yeah, no, I completely hear you. And I, you know, I think it's just like everything else. It's the ebb and flow of things. It's the peaks in the valleys. It's that as above so below.

And, you know, we go through that process. And I think, you know, finding balance in that process allows us to engage meaningfully. Yeah. I guess it's like just take care of what. Let me ask you. With your space, your own space, right? Right. I guess I'm just focusing on, like, let's start from here and then expand out.

And, like, I'm just testing the boundaries of where that goes at the moment. And if you don't have a foundation, you can't, you know, you can't build from something, right? Sorry, George. Go ahead. Yeah. No, that's all right. I'm just, I'm taking it all in. And, you know, do you ever find yourself getting cynical about it? Like, let's say you do begin to engage and all of a sudden you get all this push back and you're like, well, fuck it then.

I hope that does happen to him. You know, like, how do you fight that? Like that's probably not a good space to be in, right? I've personally gone through that stage like countless times, you know. It's one of those things where it's like, and then I'll wake up the next day. I'm like, fuck. All right. Put into work.

Yeah. Do something. You know. And there is, there's just that like internal kind of impetus where it's just like, okay, you know, I'm not, you know, nobody likes a quitter. And I'm not a quitter, damn it. And so that just kind of propels the next evolution of these things, I think, for me personally. I was reading, there's another book I, by an author named John Taylor Gatto. And he wrote quite extensively about the hijacking of education in the United States

and how it went from being sort of a, you know, a classical background and rhetoric and the trivium to becoming more of the Prussian model. of obedient workers. And it seems that we've stuck in this process of banging out obedient workers where you go to a class, you stand in front of an authority figure, and you're told what to do, and there's bells and whistles,

and you might as well be a Pavlovian dog. And so, you know, I, whenever I think about that book and I find myself thinking like, fuck, what can I do? You know, and I think this is a question everybody can ask. And this probably sounds cheesy, but I think it was JFK who said, ask not what you can, your country can do for you,

but what you can do the best way for anybody listening to start feeling better about yourself or start living a better life is to try to think about how can you make the people around you better? Like pay attention to the people in your life, whether it's your wife, your husband, your kid, your friend, your mom, your dad, your sister. Just pick somebody and think about them and think to yourself, what can I do to make that person's life better? And it sounds kind of abstract, but once you begin doing that,

you'll find that that stuff flows right back to you. If you want to make your life better, then find ways to help people, and you'll learn so much more about who you are, what they have, what you have. And all of a sudden, like, for me, it just became so much more rewarding where I'm like, I want to help out more people.

You know, and I feel like people want to help me when I help them, and they listen to me. And I once heard a good quote that said, no one cares how much you know, because they know how much you care. But, you know, I have some real ways to fight cynicism that I have found. And I think that those are a couple of them. Well, and I think that you brought up a very good point. You know, there was a realization process along this path when, yeah, you realize it as the individual.

But then, you know, it's when you're able to bring that to the group. That's where the real magic begins to happen. yeah you know unfortunately i kind of don't care anymore you know every single day i probably go through a point of the day where i'm like i just don't care i'm just like everything's fine my life's fine everything around here's okay everything nothing needs to be changed it's all good yeah and then one day you'll wake i don't know though i got to call yeah go ahead why would you write your book then kevin like uh Like you wrote a book that I thought, I think Ben would probably agree.

Like you wrote a book that helps out a lot of people. And I think you have another book coming out. You can make the argument that's a selfish thing to do. Well, so is the new book new Kevin or what? Like when did the old, when is the new book is still hidden from the world? I don't know what's going to happen with that. It'll happen. Well, regardless of what happens to it, the fact that you wrote it and you're trying to share your experience with people

means that you feel some need to engage. Like you feel some need to make people around you better. And like, I've known you long enough to know that you're constantly trying to do that. Like, I see the videos. I listen to the words. I'm attached to the people around me, for sure, like friends and family. And to the extent that people are an extension of that, and yes, I'm engaged with that. But I'm not engaged with like, oh, we need to fix systems anymore.

You know what I mean? I see. and they're broken like they're totally broken oh they are and I've gone full circle with that personally I've been trying to fix that system for 15 years

just so happens that I finally made a breakthrough and I think the final breakthrough in order to facilitate that type of change so yeah but yeah that's cool we need we need a balance we can't all detach right

because that's the problem with with that it's like what happens in the void. What fills that void of people detaching and not doing what you're doing, Ben? You know what I mean? Then there's like an ever-encroaching control system that's just going to get you at some point. And then you've got to be like, well, am I going to fight this now or I'm going to just wait for them to come from my vegetable farm and just shoot them when they were a rifle? I don't know. Right. What was that? What was that one saying back during World War II? George, you probably know what better than I do. You know,

first they came for the trade you know what I'm talking about yeah yeah yeah yeah it was go ahead something along the lines of I think it was something along the lines of first they came for the bankers and I didn't do anything because I wasn't a banker then they came for the trade unionists I didn't do anything because I wasn't a trade unionist when they came for me there was no one left to step up and say anything you know like right that's that's the truth and like that's what Look at all this division. Like, you know, I often say, or you've often hear people say, history doesn't rhyme, but it repeats.

And I think that there's a great book by Neil Howe called The Fourth Turning. And if you look at the world and all the events as seasons, like this looks a lot like World War II or prior to it. Like, there's all this fucking division. There's no unity. There's a problem with money. No one's happy. But is this just a process that is necessary?

We could talk about who's responsible. We could talk about how if this didn't happen, then that wouldn't happen. But do you guys think that this is something that must happen? Like, I don't think there's any way around it. I don't, it doesn't matter what happened in the past. I think that this is something that must and will happen. To what extreme, I don't know. But I think that this must happen in order for us to get through it.

What do you guys think? I agree 100%. Unfortunately, I wish it wasn't the case. my life experience to me has suggested that, you know, if it's, you know, there's always that old adage. If it's not, if it's not broke, don't fix it. Well, now all of a sudden it's broke. So now it needs to be fixed. And if it's not broke, then there's no impetus to go off and fix it. And so I think that this has to be an unraveling of the systems that, you know, we've, you know, taken for granted over the past since industrial revolution times. You know, this, you know,

This is the evolution of those systems at scale fracturing and we're seeing those fractures. We're seeing the breaks in the system. And it's, you know, without that vision, without that model, without that knowledge, then there's no reason to change anything. So I think that, you know, this is something that is necessary. Unfortunately. It's exciting times, right? How many people get to get to be alive during a time where something like this unravels?

seems to be traveling faster every day. That's exactly the way I think more people should look at it. Like, shit's about to hit the fan. And guess what? This is when fortunes are made. This is when, this is like, I've been talking on my podcast about this idea. Like, maybe this is what freedom looks like.

I had this idea last night. I took a bunch of mushrooms and I had this idea of like, you know, doesn't it kind of seem like, fucking anything can happen? Like, there's all these protests happening and there's all these ideas floating around and like it almost seems like the country is waiting for a good one to grab onto whether it was January 6th or whether it's this chopo thing or whether it's a strong city versus a smart city like

there's all these ideas flying out there and none of them has taken hold yet but there's a lot of ideas competing for what the future is going to look like and what I think is super exciting about it is right now the playing field is pretty fucking loud of You're not a billionaire, you're not a millionaire, but there's a computer. Here's three guys talking from three different parts of the world expressing their ideas. The playing field is pretty level. If you have a good idea, there's a, dude, it could go viral. You could get back up.

You can be on the Joe Rogan podcast. You've been a Tim K. You could be on someone's podcast that gets enough traction to get your idea in front of people and get it moving. And I think that that is really exciting. Like there's a real chance that we can have change from the bottom up right now. And I don't know the last, I don't think I was alive the last time that happened. I don't think anybody alive today was. Right.

When was the last time it happened, you think? Well, I mean, certainly, well, the Renaissance was one, but the founding of the United States was another, right? probably even you know world war one could be classified into that because that really changed the monarchy model of things and it's a new order forward yeah so but i you know even you know even if you were to classify world war two into that but i don't think that that was necessarily um you know still most of those people are all dead now too every hundred years yeah i mean maybe not exactly i 100 years, but it's 22. Reno 1922 is the roaring 20s. Looks like we just came off a pretty big bender.

And if you look at it from that angle, all the people that know how to fix stuff, they're dead now. The same way Ben and I were talking a while back about all these patches on software, like people don't even know how to write code for these old things. They're gone.

The same way the people that understood the economic machine that is the United States of America, Those people are pretty much dead, except for Kissinger. That guy seems to never die. There's a couple people who seem to just keep hanging on. I don't know. Yeah. George Soros.

I can't believe that guy's still around. Man. Okay, this brings me to another point. Like, look at where we are with medicine right now. It's clear to me that if you have a lot of money, you may not be able to buy immortality, but you sure as hell can buy an extra 40 years. Like, you know, and I don't know if, yeah, go ahead. Well, I don't know if you follow Dr. Davidson-Clair, but he's a guy who's been working on, he's been working on basically, you know, the premises is that aging is a disease and it's something that's curable.

They just released the paper the other day. They reversed aging in a mouse. You know, it was, it had gray and everything like that. And then the after picture was it was all young and virulent. you know, so there's a dedicated path of research in order to, you know, quote-unquote, fix aging. And he has some very interesting ideas. And, you know, I've done some of the, like, the, and so his big thing is N and, and, and, and, and, sorry, NMN and then Metformin, which is like, Metformin, which is like, metformin is kind of like a, diabetes drug is how it's sold to the public. But he's taking large doses of those. And I remember first seeing this guy talk about this research probably like eight some years ago.

And objectively, you know, maybe it was makeup, I don't know, but he looks like a younger man. And so they have the biological metrics on, you know, measuring biological age. And he said he's actually reduced his biological age. and it all has to do with the epigenetics and the epigenome of the human body and all the trillions of cell divisions that happen on a daily basis and the errors that arrive in that and correcting those errors so is someone doing telomeres right isn't telomere length a length yeah well that's kind of like a downstream effect of all of that stuff so as as your cells divide and the airs happen the telomere shrink. But repairing the epigenetic, so it's kind of like the tailomeres are here, the epigenomes up here. And so the downstream effects of all this results in basically an anti-aging effect. I've seen a few of those studies. And I've taken the NMN and the Metformin. And I felt pretty

great. The NMN is like $60 or $120 for like a month supply, maybe, maybe depending on how much. And he's like the, he's doing big doses. Yeah. Yeah. It would be like this. If I paid 60 bucks or 120 bucks for a month supply, that would be like his weak supply. You know what I mean? Like he's taking giant doses.

And metformin's fucking dirt cheap. You can get, you know, metformin's less than a nickel a pill. It's probably close to like a half a cent a pill. And you could buy that in a powder form. So that's not a problem. As long as you can get the prescription for it. Another thing that I have seen. and this takes us into a fuck

and kind of a rabbit hole so you guys may want to strap on your headlights here. We dive down this thing. Okay, fair enough, man. Let me go find some tinfoil, hold on. Yeah, I should, we should have all... That's like, someone sent me a funny meme, like Time magazine,

Time magazine cover, a person of the year, tinfoil hat with no face. That's good. Woo! Good. Yeah, I, um, So, you know, I think it was Ray Kurzweil.

There was a documentary called, like, this is not accurate. It's called the millennium man. It's something like that. That's not the title of it. But if you look at Ray Kurzweil documentary, transcendental man. Transcendental. Yes. Okay.

And in that particular movie, it shows him, like, he's pretty open about it. He's like, I take 175 vitamins a day. He's just taking them all day long. and then twice a week he goes and gets his blood clean. I don't know, anybody, like, if you've ever gone to, like, one of those sinners where they clean, people that have diabetes, have to go and get their blood. He's got a blood boy. He goes to one of those machines. Yeah.

Okay, yeah. Well, this is what Peter Thiel started, right? Peter Thiel started a company where they take blood from young men and inject it in old men. And that, I think, was the foundation of that rat stuff was that they took the blood from young mice and put it in the old mice. They took the blood from the old mice and put it in the young mice and they saw the two flip. You know, like it was a bad Jamie Lee Curtis movie or something like that. But they saw the people change. Like the, the old mouse became much more vigorous and the young mouse was like all lethargic and ruined.

But the trick is they can't seem to get those platelets or they can't seem to get whatever is in the young blood. through a chemical process. So they must take the young blood from the young people, which brings up the idea of vampires, right? Remember the story about vampires living forever, sucking the blood of a virgin? Like, maybe there's something to that. You know, maybe that came from somewhere.

You know, and it's just, that was my tinfoil hat moment. But I think the anti-aging is there. And I think if you have enough money, look at Rogan. Like, that guy is jacked, man. But that guy has definitely taken, you know, he's probably taken tons of TRT. HGH. He's not shy about it, I'll tell you.

Instead that I'm your show, yeah. Yeah. But the common person can't afford. I can't afford to go and get all those different shots. Depends on where. TRT doesn't need to be that expensive. I think I actually was, I just, I have curiosity checked here. And it's kind of affordable.

How much is it? I think it's like $300 for a three to six month course. It's really not too bad. That's not too bad. And I think my insurance may cover it if I switch to Edna. I would definitely do it, I think. I've heard something like you have to qualify. You've got to like have a certain level of testosterone.

And if you're above that marker, they won't give it to you. I think there's ways to cheat that though. Like if you just stay up all night. Yeah. You could just eat tofu for like two weeks, you know, and then do it. Right, right. Right. Yeah, there's a couple ways to.

The good old American. dollar usually you'll fix that one too you know what i mean like right yeah i think it's there and this kind of brings us back to what you're reading up here too um you know there's a there's this the system that kind of is the the narrative and is pushed out and all these things but there's a growing divide foundational between those who have and those who have not um and that's the that's what this distraction is, is to keep people oblivious to that reality of the world. Because, you know, think about this. If, if Dr. Sinclair is onto something and all of these blood transfusions are on to something, if all of a sudden you could have a class of people who are living

120, 150, 170 years versus the other class of people who are, you know, dying at 50 to 70, what does that do economically fast forward a couple hundred years? All of a sudden, there's a chasm between those who have and those who have not. Unlike anything we've ever seen in recorded human history. Yeah, you're talking like 40 more years of economic expansion in one person's life. Right. It would be like Star Trek. Stay optimistic.

Star Trek world. Nobody works. Oh, yeah, because they're going to make it utopian forever. buddy, yeah. Yeah, the robots do all the work and no one's greedy anymore. Man, yeah, it makes me wonder, you know, when I read those studies and I see this almost speciation of the classes, it's a, on some level, when I think about testosterone, like, I enjoy being a 50-year-old man. And like, if I see a super hot girl, I don't immediately jump up from the table and want to get her phone number. whereas a younger man is all over that.

You know what I mean? And I'm like, dude, I'm fucking, that goes pretty. What's for lunch? I think if you have all kinds of testosterone just out through your veins. The way I like to phrase it is like, I enjoy looking at the picture, but I don't necessarily want to take her home

and hang it over my bed. That's a good one. I like that. That is a good one, man, man. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it makes me think, Like I see that and I think that's part of growing older as a man like you start seeing the situation where you're in and like oh wow that goes beautiful and you see some dude to jump up and I remember when I was that guy.

You know, but like there's a certain kind of clarity that comes from not chasing that. Like there's a certain kind of clarity that's like, did I got other shit to think about besides that. And, you know, and like, if you're all jacked up all day, like, I know guys at my work that are, that are on the needle. And, like, they, while they have, you know, they're definitely still older guys, but I see that younger guy creeping back into them. And it's not necessarily a good thing. Like, I like, is there something to be said about becoming older? Like, maybe that's the cycle of life. Maybe you're supposed to get older.

So you quit chasing that shit. And you become a man to a point where you're like, okay, I have these other things to contemplate about my life. Maybe there's more growing to do. Maybe there's a cycle of life that you're supposed to have. So there's something in, you know, like the old hermetic philosophy, right, which is the transmutation of sexual energy. And I think there's actually a lot to be said about that. You know, not necessarily in a cycle of life, though I think it does make itself a pain. in the cycle of life.

But, you know, when you have that clarity of mind to not jump up from the table, you know, that allows you the opportunity to then go off and pursue other perhaps more, you know, worldly endeavors, let's say it that way. You know, be a benefit to your community, be, you know, help the people around you, as opposed to, you know, chasing every piece of tail that walks by. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's also highlighted by things like the chock a system from yoga where they you know if you're in a certain development you're focused on your base needs you're securing your sexuality to you know sex center and then as you evolve you're more focused on like worldly pursuits and your heart focused whether that's actual spiritual growth or it's just like the deterioration of biology over time through a human lifetime who knows but it's i think about like that sometimes well and i i agree with you but i you know from somebody who's kind of experimented in these types of extremes in my life. You know, I've been celibate for the past seven and a half, eight years almost now. Not by any sort of vow or any sort of spiritual thing.

It was just, I, you know, I woke up one day and I was just tired of Jason and I was tired of that lifestyle. And then I wanted to focus on work. And I wanted to focus on bringing other things into the world. Now, when I'm in Vegas at convention, there's so much more space that frees up, right it does yeah it's a lot of yeah but at the same time when i'm in vegas at conventions you know it's not like i don't notice it's not like there's a vow holding me back or anything like that and so i think there's there's there's a conversation to be had there and i think a lot of these older philosophies they touch upon it right you know i think the vow of celibacy from kind of the christian school of thought um you know is built into this old hermetic philosophy

that kind of instituted these, you know, what we call our modern religions and in these spiritual systems like Buddhism and things like that. And I think there is a lot of value, especially from a man's perspective of, you know, getting that basically under control. And instead of it being an impulse, it becomes a choice. Yeah, I like that. I think there's a lot of truth. Yeah. But the driving force, the driving force for success changes completely too because if I think about one of my 20s 50% of my thought and time is about chasing tail and the other 50% is about success in order that I can like I'm oh it's 100% but the 50% is about like the biological physical immediate and the other 50% is about success and achievement so that I can achieve the other first 50% you know yeah it all filtered

back into that first 50% yeah I yeah I And I was the same way, my 20s, you know, even early 30s, it was all, I would say it was solid 75% of my life endeavors. You know, whether it was learning how to dance, learning how to talk to people, learning how to, you know. Oh, yeah, why would you learn how to dance for it? Yeah. Why else? You know, because especially, you know, you were told, you know, vertical translates to horizontal, you know, right? There's all these little idioms in society. So yeah, you know, and I think

I think we have a natural kind of impetus through the cycle of life, but I think there's also a choice to be having it too. And I think that's what kind of gets to the hermetic philosophies in Buddhism when they're talking about that sexual center and the evolution of things as well. Yeah. Yeah. I was joking with a friend like side note where I was like, if you were emperor of the world, it was the first thing you would ban and I said Latin dance.

It's just like so much it's so much more effort you got to compete with this is a high level standard I can actually I can salsa meringuei cha cha I can even tango a little bit so too I had to learn it I was like man I had to learn it because all the other guys were doing it especially when you go to foreign countries yeah I can't I can't do any of those I did do this one that's good oh my god man That's good enough. That's all I got.

Yeah, that's all right, man. But still, though, it's, it's, there's something to be said about dancing,

right? I feel the music and, and, it's fun. I enjoy watching, I enjoy watching. Well, and there's,

there's a whole other aspect of dancing, too, that's, you know, by and large, discounted in, in traditional Western society these days. But,

you know, you have people like the Sufis, right? And they go into this, you know, this whole dance routine, and they get to, uh,

basically, a psychedelic experience through dance and through movement, through motion. And then, you know, you have, you have, like ecstatic dance. Yeah, and then you have native populations, the rain dances, and all of these things. You know, there's definitely an inextricable part of humanity that's related to motion and movement and how that correlates with, you know, not just community, but the world at large, you know, local surroundings and environments, et cetera. Yeah.

Yeah. there's something beautiful, too, about understanding body mechanics, like the way in which you can get your body to move and rhythm. And notice that is your, when you're thinking about something in depth, your brain's in a rhythm. So when you feel the music, your body's like in a rhythm, too. It's, there's something there, I think. I think that's the recipe for magic personally.

Yeah. There's a, I mean, like, if you look at the occult, there's all kinds. of things set around like dancing and sex magic and pentagrams and all kinds of craziness right yeah what was the um the s s like the the nazis they had a um the tulae the tulae society i think that they were into some sort of weird sex magic or something like that i don't know well yeah they they did they actually you know went to the edges of the earth and they that thuley society Who was that? Maria Blovich or something like that.

Bromovich? Brahmovich. Yeah, and she was the one who... Oh, the spirit cook, your lady. Yeah, and she's attributed to, you know, getting the information for, you know, how to create UFOs, and that's where the bell-shaped UFOs or the Nazis originated from and things like that.

I'm going to grab a beer. I'll be right back. Excuse me for a minute. Nice. My kind of host. I'm going to have to do the same when he comes back. It's too early for me. It's 9.30 in the morning. I'm not ready for that.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere, brother. Yeah. I actually got to work in like a few little bit anyways. Oh, yeah? What are you doing today? Yeah. One of my side jobs is tutoring college kids. It's like this very flexible remote job.

It's kind of eye-opening. And granted, as I say to people, I am encountering the low end of the spectrum of college students because they sign up for extra tutoring. But I see some pretty shocking gaps in the education system in the United States. Because these people, these kids are, they're in college already. Like they're already in undergrad. Cannot finish a sentence. Don't understand the basic tasks.

Don't know how to write an essay. It's like, how did you get into school? How'd you get there? Yeah. Did your parents write your essay for you? Like, how did you get admitted? Yeah. Now you got chat GPT that can do it for them.

So once they figure that out, it's over. Well, you know, that's actually a really interesting thing. So I have beta access to the open, or, yeah, open AI is with the parent company for chat GPT. And they have like image processing and all sorts of other stuff to create all these different AI type things. Um, they actually released their next. So the training model for chat GPT3 is something like a hundred billion different, you know, essentially inputs, right? Um, the GPT4 is going to be 127 times bigger than that.

Damn, man. Right? I mean, you know, those numbers are wild to even fathom, but then, so, Basically, you're almost accounting for the entirety of recorded human history at that point. That's kind of what they're aiming for. Yeah, and the speed is just intense. I mean, I play with it quite a bit. I was trying to use it to do different things.

Like, I see if I can have it build me an app or something. And it still has a lot of limitations, at least the open free version. It does. But you can see just by using it, like, man, if this just develops like a little bit more. It could totally achieve these things I'm trying to do. Yeah, and their next iteration is, you know, going to be 127 times more, you know, more inputs than what chat GPT3 has already. So, you know, when that comes around, you know, I try to write some programs in it too, and it took a lot of debugging to actually get the programs to work. But, you know, for somebody who has any sort of like cursory knowledge of programming, it did.

probably 60, 70% of the work for you, which in terms of the time investment? Yeah. Yeah, it did my homework assignment. Like, I'm studying C Sharp just for fun, like on the side. And I was just like, all right, let's see what this thing can do. So I popped the question in there. It spit out some code, which returned an error. And I went back to chat, GBT.

I was like, hey, your code has an error. Can you please debug yourself? And it goes, oh, I'm sorry, he's the correct code. Posted it back in and it worked perfectly the second time. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I just read we were talking about this in our predictions, George. Apparently, there is actually a lawyer or an AI lawyer who is going to try a case in February of 2023. So mark that off on our predictions of correct. You know that that show got last time I checked like over like 1500 views on Twitter. Nice. That's pretty impressive, right?

I was like, whoa. Yeah. People love predictions, I guess. I think it's going to get to the point where you're like, okay, chat, build me the true life media app. I want it to play music. I want it to be interactive and be sort of like YouTube. It'll build you something like that the same way.

Like the picture AI can build you a picture. Can the new chat build you an app? You're going to get there? Well, yes. We were talking about the next iteration, which they're actually, chat GPT4 is going to be 127 times larger than chat GPT3. Wow. So, you know, just magnet, like a couple orders of magnitude of more inputs into it.

So the ability for it to pull off something like that will increase dramatically. From, you know, a guy who's been doing tech stuff for a long time, there's still going to be a divide there, you know, because having the application is one thing, knowing knowing what hard word are running on, knowing, you know, how to, you know, mirror out those things and things like that. It's still going to be a little bit of an effort. But yeah, you're talking about the democratization of programming for the vast majority of people. Yeah. You've got to give it very specific and clear instructions to get it to work. Yeah. And I think it can almost do what you're saying now, but I was running into space, like space issues. Like it didn't have enough space to give me the code and didn't like it kept bugging out because too many people were using it at once.

Right. And so there's there's there's hiccups in that in that stream of process. But those are things that are not like insurmountable things. Those are things that will be solved. It was just like more bandwidth would solve my problem like issue. This is where like I don't. I don't. understand like on some level it sounds amazing but here's my here's my my problem with it it's basically a compiler hey chat go get me this thing so it goes to github downloads this free stuff and then brings it to you which makes me think how much are we overpay to build apps like all they're doing is going and cutting and pasting from somewhere else and then putting it in their app like if you look welcome to the sham like that that's the problem like and i think it's i think it's being dressed up in this way and shown to the public like

look what we're doing isn't this amazing like no you've just been ripping everybody off for the last like 35 years all you have to do is go to gethub cut paste and put it in your program and you're trying to say look at this chat gpd isn't it amazing look at this no it's not really that amazing dummy it's not really at all you're just cutting and pasting and now i have a now i have alexa do it instead of paying someone to do it right it's standing on the on the shoulders of giants. And another, you know, causation of that is, is if you fast forward a whole bunch of years and you remove the people who, you know, the creative people, the programmers, the artists, all this stuff, it only has a subset. It doesn't grow. It doesn't innovate.

It doesn't create new things. All it's doing is taking the old and compiling it into, you know, alterations of the old. And so you don't, you lose novelty. You lose. You lose. innovation. See, this is, yeah, this is, this is exactly like, I think it's a failure. Like, I think that like they've been working with this thing. Oh, we got to chat, GPTS, it's amazing, it's good do all this stuff. But it failed. And like, what do we do with it now? I'll give it to the public, tell them it's awesome. Like, if it worked so good, why would they give it to us? Like, why would they even let us use it? Like, if it worked awesome, it wouldn't be given to us. Like, this is something that failed and they're trying to roll it out with like a new paint,

like an Earl Shide paint job on it. Look at this beauty. Isn't that a nice piece of machinery right here? No, it's not. How much money went into making that piece of junk? Yeah, but, you know, their failure is getting them tens of billions of dollars. I think Microsoft just wanted to, I read today that they want to buy a stake in it for $10 million. And if you look on LinkedIn, billion with a B.

And then if you look on like LinkedIn, now there's a whole bunch of startups. that are based on chat GPT, that are the startup companies that are facilitating everything from, you know, education, homework type shit to legal stuff and all these other things. Which again, back to that point. Now you lose the innovation. Now you lose the creativity of the human being behind it. I just used it on a pre-job interview test for a consulting company. How did that work?

I have any do is like 25 question tests and about half of them were text. So I just pasted a minute in the chat, GPT, and took the answer. We'll see if I passed. What did you think of the answer they gave you? What kind of answers did it give you? Can you give us an example of a question and an answer again? I didn't have time to think about it. It was a time test.

I didn't really have time. So I just saw whatever I gave me to save myself some time. I just popped it in. There's a lot of numerical calculations. It's like company XA has. this many net profits and then what do we do with revenue blah blah blah those those sort of questions we'll see if i pass the questions well for those type of questions it's probably going to be pretty good yeah because those are pretty hard hard and fast answers there's not a lot of

subjectivity to them yes it's a very input dependent you got to give it the right inputs or it doesn't do anything i had a guy that's coming on the podcast in a little while and he he um he gave we were writing back and forth and he's or actually i think he may have posted it i can't think of the guy's name long story longer he had got into a chat with chat gpt and his question was why is it that it was refrigerators and freon that caused donald trump to get elected and they had a full conversation with the machine about what freon and refrigerators had to do with it you know so like he was pointing out out that like you can ask it a lot of things. And if you ask it, like on some levels, it seems amazing. But if you ask it like some sort of nuanced, crazy question, it's just like, well, you know, the things with refrigerators are that it's cold. And like it just went on some crazy rant. I should post it because I'm not really doing the conversation justice, but I'll put it in the links once we get this finished. It's an interesting idea or an interesting way to point out that, hey, this thing, while pretty awesome, is far from being any.

anywhere close to a human being. It makes me think of those Chinese room, right? Remember that analogy where there was this debate about a computer thinking and a computer being something. And this guy, John Searle said, look, it's like a Chinese room. It's like you go into this room and like you don't speak Chinese. But you have this compiler that kicks out one character and it says, place this character on the floor four spaces to the right.

And then it kicks up another one. place this character on the floor three spaces to the left. And then someone, if you did that enough times and someone came in the room and saw what you spelled, they would think that you knew Chinese, but you don't. All you knew was the instructions you were given. And there's a difference there, right,

between speaking Chinese, understanding the culture, and placing things in the format that looks that way. So it's, and I think it's still there, right? Like, it's still a pretty valid argument. No, I mean, that's exactly what it is. If you look into how these things are built, so it's just a, they call them neural networks, right?

But all that means is it's just this hierarchy of weighted elements. And so when you ask Donald Trump and Freon and refrigerators, it's going to take the greatest weight of all of these different things and correlate something to them. That something is not necessarily novel or innovative. It's just the response of the greatest weights of what those inputs are attached to. It's going to make us dumber, I think. If you can see these flaws in it already and people start building businesses around this, this machine has given you dumb answers, people are going to start taking those dumb answers as gospel. The same way in which we look at what not all of education has done to kids,

but a lot of education, the standardization of education has made people dumber. So too will this make people dumber because it's just trying to compile everything. It's like, here's one answer. Here's what it is. But that's still anti-human. And even to a greater degree, because now instead of, you know, at least education, there's still modicrum of you have to put these ideas together in your own model in your mind. But with something like that, you no longer.

have to create that model in your mind, you just have to be able to articulate the input properly in order to get the result. Right. So you get a mass dumb and down. Yeah. I think it changes the entire structure of it too, because no longer are you worried, let's just say that chat GPT finds a few footholds where it becomes very profitable. No longer about what's,

true or what's best, now it becomes about where is chat GPD compiling this from? It comes a sort of race to be the person that supplies chat. It's no longer really about the content. It's about who's getting that contract, who's supplying that stuff. And the downstream ramifications of that have a lot of consequences, I think. Well, stagnation. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Because, you know, even the people who are, you know, quote unquote supplying the input, and, you know, to check GPT's credit, what they do is they just take a vast swath of all information, you know, that exists. But eventually, you know, if you fast forward a little bit, there's less and less people creating new things, building, you know, new models, figuring out better ways to program, and more elegant ways to do something. Because, you know, that is such a cost-intensive effort that now, why should I waste my time doing that

when I can just go to chat GPT and it'll give me something that, you know, works in the world. That works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what happens when forces privatize things as they tend to do where we might have the public version of a chat GPT that's loaded with like false inputs and then we've got this other one used by other people. And the idea is that if these are built with good intentions, which, you know, that's a,

that's a hefty, that's a hefty, you know, that's too funny to put things on. But if they're built with good intentions, they're, they're quote unquote learning models. And so there would be a feedback loop in that that, you know, oh, this is a crappy way to do. Or for like your C-sharp thing, oh, you gave me buggy code that went back into the system and it's now no longer going to give that buggy code for the exact input that you gave it instead it'll give the proper code so you know there's something to be said about having a system like this but i you know when people are talking about it replacing lawyers replacing artists replacing all these things uh you know you're we're basically annihilating what it means to be human

Yeah, I could see public defenders. Like if you don't have any money, then you can get chat GBT to represent you. If you do have money, you can get like Robert Shapiro. You know, like that could be a further gap that we're talking about. So here's a public defender. It's this computer, you know, and it's going to come off these different case laws that were programmed in there. You know, and now we no longer have to pay a lawyer. We don't longer have to pay their salary.

We would have to pay their benefits, their vacation. But if you want to have the best possible premium, you'd get represented by a human. For now. For now. Yeah, maybe that switches. Maybe that switches later. You know, I don't know.

Well, you just- Novel you want to read. Right. Well, fast forward a generation thinking about, you know, those terms. If all of a sudden, you know, because a lot of those big Shapiro's and things like that who became great lawyers, they went through all of that public. process, they went through, you know, thousands and thousands of hours of litigation in order to facilitate that skill. Now, if you don't have that process, you cut that process out,

and you replace it with a chat GPT, how many people are going to go through that process, develop that skill in facilitate that articulation of the law? You're going to have less and less and less. So you fast forward a generation or two, and all of a sudden, you do. You do don't have any people going through that process. You don't have the great lawyers coming out. You don't have the great artists coming out. You just have people who are competent in using this system. Why do you even need lawyers if you just have chat GPT as the judge?

Just get rid of the lawyer. Just use that as the judge, right? It has all the case law. But in some ways, like the, you wouldn't, like Jeffrey Epstein would have the same judge as George the crackhead. You know what I mean? Like, that would be a little bit more fair in a way. something there's something to be said about that though right yeah now because especially when you're

talking something like law you know the interpretation of law especially at the judge level you know we see all sorts of wild shit go down but if you had a system that was very you know consistent in its interpretation of the law you would get a much more fair system potentially equal justice under the law even if the law was buggy At least it would be consistent in that the same people face the same machine. Right. The same silly context. But my skeptical side, I can't imagine that people wouldn't build in like back doors to all these AI judges, you know?

Yeah. Every programmer builds in a back door. I'll tell you that much. No, but so, yeah, so they're going to be back doors and there's going to be an Epstein AI judge. And then someone's going to get in there and like, ah, let's just tweak this a little bit for this case. only. Well, you know, we've already kind of seen how that plays out from the Twitter files that came out, right? We already saw that the heavy hand of the government had a direct influence on what was presented to the public. Let me, is this something new or, or, or like, this keeps back to my idea, like, maybe this is what freedom looks like.

Has this always has been happening? And we're just now seeing it because it's right in front of us. What the illusion of freedom? Or is this a new? new phenomena. Yeah, pretty much the illusion of freedom, the corruption. It's just now we're saying it. Right now we cannot no longer deny it. Right now there's just a camera in everybody's pocket. There's the internet to connect people and ideas and communication. There's there's all of these systems that I think this was always behind the scenes because you know, I mean, we grew up with the adage. It's not it's not what you know, it's who you know. So I think this has been kind of inherent in society since, you know, as long as we have recorded human history.

And I think we have, we could pull examples that would suggest as much. I think it's now we, we as the common individual, just have a bit more of a bit more skin in the game, I guess. So we look back on, you think, is it possible if that is true, then we look back on these times as sort of, you know, the human race in their 30s coming to grips with how gross we were. Like, God, we were really horrible in our 20s. Jesus Christ, you know what a time to you want to? Oh, shit. Let's not talk about that.

You know, like that, will that be like all our presidents? Is this the species finally coming to grips with, hey, look at what we're doing, man. We've fucked up a lot. Like, look how gross we are. We should probably change this. I think a lot of it. I think it is a positive thing. I think it is a positive thing ultimately.

I think in that positivity, there's a lot of hardship and a lot of struggle and a lot of tragedy that occurs because the reality of the situation is, yeah, we've been pretty fucking shitty. And now it's just, now it's just coming to, you know,

the forefront of conversation. Yeah, are we going to chalk up another eight ball and go to the liquor store? Are we going to fucking, hey, maybe we should fucking chill out a little bit, right? Well, that's, I don't know. Because we, there's a lot more awareness now and people are bringing things to light and social media

and we have these conversations and we've got Twitter files and we've got all of that information coming out where people are more aware of the game and it's revelations of late to show that it was an illusion to a large degree. But that I don't, like

what to what extent are people going to actually do something because just playing and talking on social media it's not going to change anything in and of itself and the fact is we live so much better than we ever have and no one's going to get up and attack and it's like change the overthrow government until like it's so bad that they can't bother living anymore and it's like hard to imagine that now but what I think happens is these conversations breed parallel economies. They breed small-scale experiments where smaller groups of people come together and be like, hey, I think we can do this a better way.

And then in the success of them doing it a better way, that will be the foundations of society of tomorrow. But will they leave you alone? Well, see, that's a problem. They probably won't. I've already saw something lately about there. I forget it. It was in like Utah or something. There were drones flying around,

like, and they found solar panels stuck in the dirt that they were, they were feeding Bitcoin mining machines or something like that. Like, and I just envisioned like there was this army of drones just looking for these like offshoot communities and just trying to shut them down one to time. And I think that's a reality of the situation that's going to, you know,

that's where a lot of the tragedy is going to come from. That's where a lot of struggles going to come from. it's not going to be an easy transition. And, you know, I, and if we look back at history, there's no easy transition between the old system and new systems that have come into play. You know, there's, there's a lot of travesty along that path. I've heard for a long time that, you know, if you live,

I really love the long form format, you know, whether it's the Rogan talking to Elon or, you know, one of the wine, maybe. be Brett Weinstein or just these long-form podcasts, even our podcast. But some of the other ones that I listen to, every now and then, you'll hear someone that you admire just throw a few pearls out there. And sometimes I hear people say, the China model is the future. And it took me down this rabbit hole, like, well, what is the China model? Is it state capitalism?

And in my research, what I have found is that, you know, in the Chinese model, at least in my opinion, from what I've read, and I could be wrong, is that they allow, a lot of autonomy in the different zones. And whoever has the best system, that person then can rise up and move up in the party. And if you take those two things together, you see people like Elon Musk saying, the Chinese model is the future.

And then you look at what I said about allowing city states to come up with real solutions that could scale. Then you can see what's kind of happening in the United States, already. And I would say that the Chinese model of city states is being implemented in the United States. And two examples of that are Gavin Newsom in California and the governor in New York. You're seeing these new ways and means being rolled out. And in California, you have

like, you know, they're paying reparations there. They've privatized pretty much all of the electricity there. They've went ahead and said, look, we're no longer going to have. have we're capping gas cars at this time. It's a really progressive agenda. The same way, like, they're testing things out there to see if it works. And so, like, when you combine that, okay, tinfoil hat on, if you read the 2030 agenda, you see stuff like, you see words like strong cities, smart cities.

Like, okay, everybody knows what a, mega cities, city states. And when you start poking the prostate in there, you start realizing like, okay, a smart city is a city that's owned by a corporation where you get a corporate dollar to spend at the company store. Like it's a smart city. They track everything. What's a strong city? Well, a strong city is a lot like a prison. They got bored around it. Only certain people can come in.

And if you look at what's happening, they're doing. some kind of crossbreeding. And I forgot the name of the town in Europe somewhere, but they're putting this new process in where they're like, okay, you can only travel 150 days out of a year. So there's all these experiments going on throughout the world right now to try to find a way to govern better. And when you look at it from that angle,

that means, at least in my opinion, like the Davos, the WEF, the P.EF, the people, the real owners of this world know that what we have right now is dead. It doesn't work. The money doesn't work. Nothing works. So we must start figuring out what we're going to put in place.

If you look at it from that angle, it can both be liberating and scary. But I think I would challenge everybody to at least look at it from that angle. Look at what's happening around the world. Look at all these experiments happening in different parts of the world. read the literature and find out where you want to live. Can you find what you do?

Would you be good in a strong city? Would you be good in a smart city? Do you agree with any of that? But I would challenge everybody listening to this to do their research and, you know, do what too short says and try to get in where you fit in. So I would add an asterisk to that because, you know, the China model originally was set up that, you know, different representatives from the different factions, like, you know, almost ethnic factions in China were part of that system.

And then it got co-opted by Xi Jinping now. And all of those different factions have now been kicked out. So there's the China model and then there's the authoritarian China model. And we're seeing the authoritarian China model kind of play out right now in real time. And I, you know, I suspect that that fractures probably within the next decade. that's a different rabbit hole. But yes, from like the world economic forum perspective, the Davos people, those types of people, and we've talked about this a lot, you know, I think this is the fracturing of nation states.

And it's going to move into, you know, their idea is a global kind of, you know, community type of different city states. My problem with that is who pulls the strings? You know, do you want, you know, proprietary companies? do you want strong arms? Do you want authoritarian's pulling the strings for these? And I think most people, you know, most thinking people were honest, they would say absolutely not. Because that's pretty much the end of freedom, I would argue.

Yeah. So I think along those lines a little bit. And like here I get, here's where I get a little bumpy and like a little bit mift in that, like I really want to hate all those people, W.E. and like I shake my fist out of you dummies you don't know anything but the truth is

well they know a lot know everything you know what I mean they know a lot like like and you know hate the player wrong with like those are good experiments yeah

right don't hate don't or what don't hate the game hate the player you know I think it's the other way one of it is whatever one of those

they both kind of work they do But yeah, it is, you know, and I think it's like, is a benevolent dictatorship the right way. That's the question. That, well, and, you know, if you look in the past, yeah, if you look in the past, you know, there's been a lot of benevolent dictatorships that have, you know, removed poverty from nations that have elevated their entire countries that have done great for people. But when you fast forward a couple generations down, it's usually.

usually not the same case. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's the Luddites that had it right. People hate the Luddites. I think those guys figured it out, man. Yeah, we don't need to be rounded up like rats and put into freaking assembly lines. Like, we should break all those machines and work on our own time. No, it's not that the Luddites hated technology.

It's that they hated having to punch a clock. Like, they're fine using technology. everybody here is and in some ways I think we need to revive the Luddite movement. Like I think that we understand and maybe technology is giving us, like I think technology could give us back our freedom. If we have chat GBT, if we have this new technology that can help all of us individually, why do we need the large corporation? We have the technology. We no longer need them and maybe that's what's happening. Maybe big tech is producing the very thing that's going to make them obsolete.

You know, that's kind of foundational to the open source movement of the internet. You know, back when it was fashionable to call yourself a hacker, back when the internet first started, you know, the whole idea

behind that was freedom of information. So that all information was freely available for everybody. And that was a lot of the foundations of what then became the open source movement of the world, which is where, you know, CHAPGPT gets its, gets its meat.

And that's where, you know, things like the GitHub and all of that stuff. And, you know, Bitcoin, all of these things. So I think, you know, there is, it's not going to be, oh, because it's all open and free, all of a sudden we get the results in society. there is a birthing process along that along that path and I think

you know that's what we're witnessing right now yeah it's true gentleman I have to have to bow I gotta go do some work the shift starts soon but it's been a pleasure George thank you for hosting again

are you kidding me man I'm stoked to see you talk about this stuff yeah yeah well see you then yeah we're gonna hit up tomorrow at two too if you're around I'll send you a link I'll try and make it. I'm not sure. Yeah.

All right, buddy. Always a pleasure, man. It's a new book out. Yeah, I want to read it. Okay. See you guys. Take care, brother. Aloha.

Yeah, Ben. I think we are headed for some interesting times. I think it can be positive. I try to, as dark as I get sometimes, I think that the objective is to shine light on what is possible. And I do think there's a lot of things to be excited about. Absolutely. I mean, you know, at the end of these things are tools.

You know, if you got, you can have one talented craftsman with the right tools. And they can create masterpieces. But if you gave that same talented craftsman just to select set of tools, they're going to be limited as well. And I think, you know, that metaphor kind of applies to society at large of what we're experiencing. right now. You know, we are now have built the tools as a society to move on to the next iteration of

what it means to be human on this planet we call Earth. And I'm very hopeful that we can actually, you know, make inroads in that. And I, you know, I, as much as we talk about all the dystopian shit, I don't see a dystopian future

for us. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's the human nature. to look at all those things. Right. And I think, you know, it's easy to see the dystopian future. But it's also, you know, if you understand the, you know, the, the, what goes into that, all of the different structures and all the systems and all the tools that we're talking about.

It's also easy to then go, hey, you know what? Humans are actually kind of awesome. Maybe not at an individual level, but at a scale, right? And I think, you know, and I think that, you know, at that scale, I think we are equipping ourselves with the proper tools in order to enable a much brighter future for, you know, not just at a local like North American level, but at a worldwide level. And I think, you know, the dystopian overlords, as you could call them, and they have many names, I think that they lose it. because information, you know, it's the genie that doesn't go back in the bottle. You know, it's Pandora's box at the end of their soap. I like it.

I agree. I think that, you know, we spoke earlier about the idea that maybe what we're seeing has always been going on. And all of a sudden, it's just been sprayed down with the disinfection that it's, is that is transparency. And, you know, you could say that the war in Ukraine is just another way to launder money since Afghanistan was put to an end. And there would be a lot of truth to that statement, especially when you look at BlackRock coming out and all of a sudden announcing they have all the contracts for it. You know, we see this process of privatizing profits, socializing losses. How many billions of dollars have we have the taxpayers just cut to Ukraine?

And now BlackRock's like, well, looks like we're going to be doing all the reconstruction over there. Well, shouldn't the taxpayer get benefits from that? Like, see, they take all the money from all of us, send it over there. And then these guys get the contracts and they get all the profits. So, you know, we're close. Like, if I know, I'm a truck driver in Hawaii. And if I know that, you know, I got to think that you see people, in Congress starting to step up

and you know you see the foundation being built that's fine that's invest in Ukraine and when it's time to rebuild the dividends go back to the taxpayer they don't go to BlackRock they don't go to the Fed

they go to the American taxpayer like we spent that money you know it's the same thing a sovereign wealth fund has that's why the Saudis are so wealthy that's why Norway so well they have a they have a they have a sovereign wealth fund that they invest that goes back into their public. We have a sovereign wealth fund,

but none of that money comes back to us or what comes back to us is the shell of the peanuts. So maybe that's what's happening. Maybe it's getting better. Maybe we're starting to see it. Yeah, I think it ultimately will get better. But again, I think there's going to be the hardships along the way.

You know, we have the Citizens United Act that really kind of hamstrings, you know, somebody who gets in Congress, even if they can get in Congress in the first place, right? You know, where did that money come from? What's what sort of people are telling them to vote certain ways? You know, there's there's hiccups. There's speed bumps on this road. But I think ultimately they are just speed bumps. They just slow us down. They don't change the inevitability of the outcome. Yeah. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how this experiment pans out. Are you worried at all about the long-term ramifications of the vaccines?

Like, you know, there's all these. Oh, yeah, George. Oh, yeah. What do you worry about? Well, you know, when it first came out, I was like, wait a second, you're going to take something that, you know, quote-unquote was just invented, but it wasn't. It was actually, you know, a fashioned in 2012. And so there wasn't any long-term data about how this all plays out.

And now not only is there no long-term data, but you're not talking about a traditional vaccine, you're talking about a nanolipid particle that directly interacts with the MRNA of a human host. And, you know, for all of the feats of science that we've accomplished, we still have such a limited understanding of those types of interactions with the human body. you can ask 100 neuroscientists how the brain works, and you'll get a 70% answer that's kind of correlated, but they'll all have different ideas because we just don't know. We don't have the data. And now you're talking about genetics, which genetics is even perhaps more complex when you factor in epigenetics and all these other aspects of the human body. And now we're just going in there and being like, hey, this looks good. Let's go ahead and tweak this. Now, yeah, and I've read, you know, I've been a scientist for a long time, and I've read thousands and thousands of papers from physics to biology and everything in between.

And, you know, my takeaway is that while we do make progress and why we understand a good deal of what the world is and how it works and why it works and when it works and environments and all of these other aspects, we are still looking at, avoid of understanding of true understanding of how all of this relates together at a broad scale and then you want to go off and you want to tweak one of the most foundational aspects of that without understanding the broad picture what could be the result besides calamity the pushback on that would be and i don't agree with this but the pushback would be like yeah it's exactly what we want to do ben like we're here for a limited time we want to make this this, we want to find out what we can do. Yes, vaccine has been, the vaccine's policy has been, we've been using eggs to make vaccines

the last hundred years, Ben. Do you want to stay in this freaking paradigm or do you want to move the species forward, Ben? Millions people are going to die. Millions people die all the time. So what's the problem, Ben? It's a hell of an experiment. Unfortunately, I'm just one of those people who doesn't want to sign up for the experiment. I'll be the control group.

That's fine with me. I hear you. There's something to be said about experimentation, but there's also reasons that, you know, very real reasons that we don't like animal testings. We don't like, you know, to certain degrees, right? Because we've seen the horrors of what can happen when we fuck up. Yeah.

And now to just go ahead and, you know, remove all of those layers of almost protection from what we've done for the past say 120 years of medicine and then just throw it globally. I mean, you know, what sort of downstream effects could we be talking, you know, not even 10 years, not even 20 years, but generational. We have no idea. Yeah, I agree. I think it's reckless.

But it is very reckless. On the, like on the, on the opposite side of that, if you're being just a hardcore poor rationalist. You have to look at it like, look, we put it out there. Anybody who has an IQ over 120 realized it was poison, okay?

Like, that's a fact. Like, we put enough shit out there so people knew if you're smart, you knew you shouldn't take this. Did we apply enough pressure to crack people? Absolutely. I think that was part of it. Like, that's part of the plan.

Like, maybe that's, It's dark for me to say, but... Well, no, this goes back to what you have right here, I've pulled up on the screen still, right? You know, these are, you know, it's an experimentation, and it's not just a physical, biological experimentation. It's a psychological, social experimentation as well. You know, what would people accept on a grand scale of something like this?

Could we push out a vaccine every single country in the world? You know, if, and, you know, locally, even for politics, We see this play out all the time. They'll come out with this grand scheme and then, you know, they get a lot of pushback over here. So we take this away for now. But five years later, that gets put out again. Oh, we didn't get pushback this time. We're going to go ahead and go down this path now.

And so that's psychological, you know, this. And it's interesting, you know, I was going to bring up, you know, Hollywood, right? Yeah. It was something interesting I heard a little while back. The old Celtic druids used to make their wands out of the holly tree. Right. Yeah. And so, you know, Hollywood was kind of this tool of magic, of propaganda.

And we're seeing this psychological game being played out. People are pretty much unwittingly playing along. You know, and from outside looking in, it's sad to see. But at the same time, it is fascinating from a society. scientific perspective of where this goes. Yeah, I mean, like I said, from, and I

I've had this inkling that I've been thinking about and I don't like to think about it, but I can't help but not. Like, it's the greatest human experiment in medicine in the history of mankind.

This is a... By orders of magnitude. By orders of magnitude. And to think that different batches weren't marked with different types of things on different ethnic groups. Like this is the greatest, what, you know, what do they call that, Ben, when you, when you, this is the greatest open clinical trial of all times that will revolutionize medicine forever. What they're going to learn, what they have learned on a cognitive level, on a psychological level, and on a medical level.

is beyond anything that's ever happened. I wish I had access to that data. I wish I could see what it is they're studying. Because I bet you it's fascinating. And as much as I despise what they've done, I got to say on some level that they're going to be learning a lot. Absolutely. But at our pursuit of knowledge,

if we forget what it means to be human, if we lose our humanity, then what good early? That would be in my argument. Because if in this pursuit of grand knowledge, we lose what it means to be human, you know, we've lost everything. We've lost everything. You know, and hey, you know, maybe I'm wrong and maybe that next evolution of humans

where they only need, you know, a couple billion of us and not eight billion of us, maybe they're going to, you know, be beneficiaries of this. and maybe they're going to go off and, you know, conquer the solar system, conquer the galaxy. But at the same time, I don't necessarily think I see that as a reality of that situation. If we lose our humanity along the path of knowledge, I think we fail. Yeah. You know, I feel like humanity is collectively reading a choose-your-own-adventure book. And the people that have the words, the people that have the words,

the people that have the authority decided we like the greater good we're going to go with the greater good one right here and it's like dude I know how that one ends that's a horrible one no I've already read this book man you can't go with the greater good you're going to die at the end you're going to die from the greater good

don't you guys know that and they're like no nope we don't know that it's like fuck man I don't have a voice I know what's going to happen into the story and that's what will happen if you live by that book you die by that book

Like you have to have faith in humanity. You have to have faith that where we're going is a destination that's going to be right. And that by trying to medically engineer humanity, okay, the only way I can be, well, there's probably a lot of ways that can be wrong. But it seems to me it's better to have faith and know that where we're going is a place we're supposed to go versus, trying to genetically engineer society in a way.

Unless, unless, hey, maybe it's been a genetic experiment from the beginning, and we don't know. Maybe we're all a genetic experiment. From some angles, you could view human history that way.

For sure. I, you know, I could see that. But at the same time, you know, this kind of brings us back to this chat GPT thing. If all of a sudden you remove the creativity,

You remove the innovation. You remove the motivation to pursue those pursuits. You stagnate. And when you stagnate, just like everything that stagnates in nature, it dies. And something else grows on top of it. And, you know, I think if you were to play this out from a game theoretical perspective and magnify it hundreds of generations, I think that's where you end up if you play that game. And this goes back to what you said.

this you know the greater good you live by that book you die by that book and i think the promise of humanity is much greater than um us trying to uh pigeonhole ourselves in a in a tiny box which ultimately gets swept up in the sea yeah you there's any like do you see any good like imagine this is an experiment where they're able to use use this gene therapy as a way. Like all, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting to see the pharmaceutical companies come out with a vaccine or a gene therapy or an MRI vaccine that attacks COVID. And then a few months later, hey, we think we, we want to decry, we want to label. aging as a disease.

I think those are connected. I think the promise of M RNA vaccine is longevity. And the way they rolled it out was like, we're going to test it on the flu. Or we're going to test it on this virus that could be a weapon we used in China.

I don't know what it is. But I think the fact that they just came out with a bill to label aging as a disease opens up the door to pharmaceutical companies to produce vaccines for aging. And I think they're connected. Right. Well, and they're not just aging.

You know, they've announced diabetes, cancers, all sorts of different things that they're trying to apply this technology to. What really kind of gets me is, I remember reading this before COVID ever was a thing. In 2012, DARPA was the one who funded this MRNA research. And the results of their experiments,

which come to find out was actually on soldiers, was that they did get the antibody production, but once re-exposed out into the wild to these pathogens again, these people got a greater uptick of reinfection. Which, you know, alludes to the idea that, yeah, while we kind of understand, understand some of the mechanisms, we don't realize the grand totality of the mechanisms at play.

And when you start playing with those, you know, you could end up, you know, there's a, did you ever see them, read the book, Children of Man, where all of a sudden they weren't able to have kids anymore? No, I haven't. I should write that down. It was an interesting concept. And I think the book came out in like the early 2000s and they made a movie of it. But essentially, all of a sudden, you know, it was just miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage.

And then there was no children born. And then the idea was that there was the first child born in 20 some years and that's kind of what the book revolves around. But that concept of, you know, we don't really have a full grasp of what we're playing with. And then all of a sudden, what happens if, you know, you wipe out a generation of people? What happens if you wipe out two? All of a sudden, the human race doesn't exist in the capacity that it exists. You know, all of a sudden, we're back to fighting nature for our survival. You know, and so, and because we don't have the comprehensive understanding,

because we're not omniscient in these things, it seems folly to me. to play that game. Yeah, I would agree. I would, I'll take it a step further in that not only is it folly to play that game, but I think of the game, if you look at the ultimate arms race between viruses and the biological organism,

you know, it seems that we have levered, that. Like we use you know, you look at the cold world. We had this arms race going on. And it seems to me that the biological weapons are scratch that, not are, have

been the weapons of choice for the last 20 years. Like you've been, like you just cited DARPA 2012 coming up with genetics. How long has CRISPR technology been out there? How long has genetic therapy been out there? How long has

targeted? genetic therapy been out there so 23 and me you know all these genomic type of technologies if we look at them as the technologies that they are and we apply the fact that technologies are usually developed for war then it's not too far of a stretch to say hey we have been developing these pathogens for targeted ethnic groups and I've been hearing some bits and pieces about, like, I don't think Dr. Fauci is a dumb man. You don't get to be where he is by being dumb. No, he's not dumb.

Maybe shrewd, maybe ruthless, but dumb is not a word you would use with that man. And if you look at the military industrial complex, which he was a part of, science plays a part in it. Tech plays a part in it. Now, wouldn't it be a brilliant move? wouldn't it be a brilliant move if you are the premier world power who has the premier world currency

and you're worried about the quote on quote what's that trap called where a younger company comes or younger place comes up it has like a Greek name I know what you're talking about though if you're worried about the

the upstart essentially if you're worried about the upstart taking you over and you have this targeted pathogen that you could use as threat and you develop in their lab in their country and it gets out, hey, guess what? It wasn't us. Even though we were there, you know what? We were working in China. Like it's a pretty good cover. And isn't it weird that China has a zero COVID policy? I have some family members that were Chinese. Both of them got COVID. and one of them went on an incubator. I had other friends that got the shot and died,

but only my Chinese family members went to the intubator. And it made me think, I don't know, this is me telling you what I've seen in my life, but it seems to me that it hit them harder. And isn't it weird that China had a, dude, no one goes outside. No one goes outside.

We're going to shut everything down. We didn't do that anywhere else. You could make the argument that the people, in China knew that this pathogen was targeted against them specifically genetically and they shut it all down. I mean, I could see

where you're drawing the correlation. But I don't know. I don't necessarily think it's, well, I don't necessarily think it's too crazy because, you know, like we talked about, you know, we've been playing with this stuff for the past 20 years in society. You know,

to the tune where we understand a good portion of the beconisms. And to make something more pathogenic to an ethnic group isn't actually all that complex from the genetic level. Because we have, because of the mapping of the human genome, we have been able to identify the different ethnic kind of genetic differences that exist throughout, you know, even though we're all, we're all months.

There's still, you know, very, you know, there's certain genes. that are, you know, exceptionally pronounced in, say, South Asian culture or African culture or Caucasian cultures. And though, and, you know, we know that those exist. So it's not a huge stretch. But at the same time, it would be, you know, I mean, how does that person sleep at night? It would be one of my first questions. Under an American flag. Well, here's the thing.

And then, but then you look at like, rewind to recent history, Nazi Germany. You know, all the experimentation, there is precedence for it. So, you know, when you add up precedents and evidence, you know, you can draw all those correlations for sure. I would, you know, it's one of those things like I remember reading about COVID in November of 20, 18 because that's where it actually broke out in China and it was a mystery virus at the time. There was crazy videos, them welding people's doors shut and all sorts of shit. And it wasn't until, you know, 2019 when COVID was actually declared COVID. And it wasn't until March in the United States before they actually declared it as a disease.

So there's it's very wild to go down the you know the series of events that led to this thing and then to your point Most technology is developed as a weapon You know that's kind of been the human species since as far as we have recorded history Yeah since the Tower of Jericho I think I read some way that the Tower of Jericho is one of the longest or the one of the oldest standing buildings. And when you start looking into the Tower of Jericho, it's like a, it was the first

place that allowed for a surplus. And so they had a place where they could roll boulders on a top people, because people, as soon as you have a surplus, you have people come in to steal it. As soon as you have a surplus, you have a a motive. A motive.

Yeah. Yeah. And it, you can almost look at that as a flashpoint where we went from being potentially hunters and gatherers. Maybe that's a flashpoint from changing lifestyles, maybe. Sure. And, you know, I think that's kind of been pretty much recorded human history. There's not, you know, and we could get into like prehistory and stuff like that.

When you have stuff like Gobeckley-Tepe factored in, when you have all of these different megalithic structures all over the world and things like that. But for what we have is what we call our. ancient history to now, the advent of technology has always first been about conquering and gaining more resources. So, you know, I think, you know, to just imagine that the sun came up and we decided to be all, you know, kumbaya all with each other in the 21st century kind of almost defies logic and reason at some level. Yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating to think about it. I don't, in my brain works overtime coming up with things that may or may not be happening, but it's it's a fascinating time to be alive. It's a fascinating time to to come up with some creative solutions to make your life better. Or you could zoop out and do scroll and figure out biological weapons and you know, whatever you want to do is out there, man.

Yeah, but I think it. you know, we talk ad non-seem about it, but I think this is the growing pains of us taking the next step. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Well, I got my, I got some family members telling me that if I don't get off the phone, if I don't get off here, they're going to punch me in the face. So then before we go, man. That actually might get some good views. Just haven't come punch you in the face. You never know. That could go viral. I suggest my book. I know. They were hurt.

I don't know if I want that to be my Bible video. I go into content with that. It's a great point, man. It's a great point. So for those watching, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. Tomorrow we got the psychedelic roundtable. Maybe we might get into that a little bit.

I'm looking forward to talking to you tomorrow. Ben about some big news on the horizon for the Terra Libre project and while I don't have your information currently in the show notes I will put them on there for people listening where can they find you and what do you come what you got coming up ben uh benjamin c george.com for everything that I'm up to uh and yeah finally crack the nut for I think rolling out the first phase of the Tara Lieber project. So, yeah, tomorrow should be fun. Yeah, tune in tomorrow. Jason and maybe Kevin, but Paul are definitely in for sure. So tomorrow, my friend, I will, I'll talk to you then. I hope you have a fantastic day. Thank you for jumping on and one of my favorite people to talk to you,

my friend. You as well, brother. I hope you have a great rest of your evening. Aloha, everybody. I will man. Aloha, everyone.