TrueLife - Ranga Padmanabahn - Psychedelics, Psychosis, & The Art of Dying

Episode Date: January 27, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Today I’m excited to welcome & speak with Rangarajan Padamanabahn. An incredible individual with a passion for learning & helping others. We dive deep into the ideas of life, psychedelics, awareness & appearance. For more information about Ranga He can be reached for Consultation, Coaching, & Speaking @ the link belowhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/pranga003PMusic by Rapossa https://youtube.com/channel/UCYQVuBQEJwKViT4yIDoCMFQ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins maze,

lights my war cry, born from the blaze. The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Friday. I hope that you're all having a beautiful day. I hope the birds are singing, the wind is at your back,

and the sun is shining. We are here with the one and a one. only Ranga, who we haven't talked together for a while. He's been traveling the globe since the last time I've seen him a little bit. And he's taken some trips not only to the outer world, but some trips in the inner world as well. So Ranga, I'm so stoked you're here. How are you? I'm good.

Thank you for having me here. I think, yeah, I can tell you in terms of it's been close to a couple of months or three major trips, I would say. I don't want to specify outrunner. It all means the same. But, yeah, it kind of slowed me down even bit in a very good way because I feel like I need to slow down to appreciate what's going on. Yeah, if I'm not aware, I'm just rushing. Yeah, it's easy to get caught up in what's going to happen in the future or, you know, I heard a quote one time that said, yesterday is the past, tomorrow is the future, today is a gift, that's why they call it the present.

You know, and it helps you just kind of stay like, oh, I'm so thankful to have what I have right now. But why don't you tell us about these trips? I mean, you want to start with an inner trip, an outer trip, or you want to start with the language of what a trip is, you know, or what do you think? I wasn't traveling much in my younger days, so I always had this idea that I wanted to travel to back home. and stuff when I, you know, was on my own, let's say I went to a foreign country from India, right? Lipperie Masters, I'm going to do the first thing in my summer vacation is backpack and stuff, which I tried to do.

And it was quite interesting experiences because traveling teaches you a lot. You know, you met, you meet interesting people, different cultures, different way things are done. And, you know, you're more absorbing. you're in a state of absorption and especially when you travel alone you don't have extra noises and plants right so that happens but i don't think that interest stayed with me for a longer period of time it stayed until my first cycleick trip which you know directed me in words and for some reason i can't get myself to be too much fascinated or excited i would say then i think about traveling outside so i do not go out of my way to make plans for travel, right?

So, yeah, which means the thing, the thing... Oh, I think you muted yourself. Nothing. Maybe is it me? Hmm. Can you hear me? I can't hear it all.

There we go. Oh, there we go. Yeah, I'm just going to remove that thing. Okay. Okay. Are you able to hear me fine now? I can. Okay.

So, yeah, between the last time and now, I think I've had three, three trips, one of them being MDMA for the first time. And that was just mind-blowing in the sense that I've read reports on what MDMA does. Right. So that is always even if you do not have these expectations that are subtler expectations that comes, right, but to experience that and to just understand how it is helpful as a medicine, right, practice. practically understanding that this is a beautiful medicine was amazing that experience, putting you in a state of awareness where you're not, you know how with psilocybin or 4 AC or DMT,

you and I have talked about, we get into this place where, you know, we can play with these thoughts without being attached to this. That is a state where we can invite the thoughts, play with it, and get into a deeper state of thinking without being burdened by it, right? you know, normal days we might not be able to differentiate our thoughts versus what is actually, you know, imaginative thing versus the actual reality problems, right? But what I found difference with MDMA was it got me to a state of awareness where I just couldn't think. So what remained at that point was just, I was just fascinated by things.

I was listening to music and I had this idea that in MDMA you're moving or thoughts. So I think I kind of wanted to see what happens when I move, all these tinier details which I'm not paying attention to in my daily life because I'm, as I said, I'm busy with something, right? So I cannot be worried about my tipto what's happening in the end of my finger, right? So these things got to the surface. And there was no thought about it. You're just like, ha. And you're like this innocent kid who is just, you know, yeah, you want to call it. a state of love, it was beautiful and it was not the way of a physical kind of love, right?

It was a more of emotional state where you don't want to act on it. You just understand that it's a state and you're just there. And then what I add would be 90 to 100 milligrams of MDMA since it was my first time. And I think three hours after the trip I started with weed wave. And the come down, what happened after that was very similar to a cyclical come down. So have you had those combination MDMA and cannabis? I have. I haven't done MDMA for a few years.

However, my experiences of them were like an incredible body sensation tied together with full body awareness. And I think maybe that has to do with the oxytocin or maybe the large amount of serotonin that's just released. But it's fascinating. I do feel as if I was able to communicate much more effectively and especially with other people. I really felt this true sense of connection with anybody that I was around or I was speaking to. And it had completely like it had completely. diminished my my ability to build barriers. Like I felt as if in some ways, like if I take like LSD or psilocybin, it, it obliterates

boundaries in a way where I don't see myself up against something. But the MDMA boundary was more of an internal boundary where like I didn't feel like I had to, you know, put up any sort of front or protect myself. So it was, there were both boundaries shifting, but they were different. different sorts of boundaries. And when I did come down, I would smoke a little bit of cannabis and I felt that it brought back those sensations. It would intensify that trip and give me like another sort of mini trip from it right there. But the thing with MDMA for me was that on day two, so I would take it and then the next day I'd be okay with the day after that, I would,

they would call it, we would always call it being e-tarded because you just feel like, oh, I could be banging into walls. Like, what, what's wrong? me. I'm like, I'm all clumsy. And, you know, maybe that's a deficiency of whatever neurotransmitter that you were really soaking up at that point in time. But yeah, it's a phenomenal way. And I think that that's why they have so much success with using MDMA for relationships. It really does break down those barriers. And it is just this all-encompassing body awareness and everything feels so good. And you really can bond with people. And it's an amazing, it's an amazing experience for those that are in the right frame of mind to take it. So I did kind of take

that. What's your take on the boundaries there? I think you got the same gist of what I was going to eventually say. For example, I feel like cyclics, let's say, psilocybin or LSD kind of encompasses the MDMA trip. Like, I feel like that is a way to reach the state what is offered by MDMA using LSD you are cell as I've been, but it's just that you need to put in a lot of effort. As you said, like, what you have to see with that barriers coming up, right? Like, you need to do that, right? I tend to see psychedelics a little different than MDMA in ways where it's more of a self-improvement tool. It's not a beginner's journey, right? MDMA could be something where I understand why it is very specific for, I mean, very helpful for PTSD people.

because it is forgetting the state of love. It's not just that you simply don't remember what it is to be just innocently aware of things. We are caught up, right? Like when we have some trauma-based problem, right? So I feel like MDMA gives you the glimpse of what it is, like the state that we have forgotten. And psychedelics can be the tool to show those bad.

where you can work on every day, right? For some reason, during my MDMA, there was no specific insight of what I can do in my life to change the way, in my sober sense. What can I do different to change, right? It wasn't there. But as soon as I add weed, that's why I felt like the come down was pretty psychedelic come down similar to that, because these barriers were coming up and you're aware, oh, this is how this particular barrier is stopping me from where.

you know, being in my natural state. I'm being judgmental of this criteria. I'm being judgmental of that. So, yeah. And I read this post once by a clinic which is trying to give a little bit of MDMA before psilocybin to avoid that uncomfortable come up that psilocybin sometimes as, right?

And it made sense. MDMA provided this platform, right, where you're to call it safe and comfortable. It's like it's so beautiful there. And then you can, you know, when you take psilocybin, it takes you from there. So you don't feel like there is a rapid shift in perceptions, right? So basically I feel like come up for me. I've always felt.

Or at the end of the day, it's all physical sensations. I just feel really uncomfortable in my stomach or this feeling of like, I just want to cry. I just want to, I don't want to. Why am I doing this? Right? The come up phase. But I also feel like the more you're trying to be equanimous with the come up,

the better the trip goes to. Yeah. Yeah. So MDMA can provide that place where you're not too judgmental of your own come up with psilocybin. So. I could see that point. I think that this provides fertile ground for the next, I don't know, 20 years.

And let me be clear. Like, I think that each type of psychedelic or plant medicine is like a tool in a mechanics tool bag. And I think that the psychiatrist of tomorrow or someone that runs a wellness center, like a Cole Butler, will be able to use these tools. If you see someone with PTSD and you're able to sit down with them for a few sessions and understand, I mean, thoroughly understand what they're going through, then you know what tool to use. You know, do you use a scalpel or a pipe wrench? Because those are two different tools.

You know what I mean? If someone is struggling very difficult in a relationship, you got to figure out, okay, is that because this person has seen some horrific things? Are they upset at themselves? Or they upset at the other person? But once you figure out those things, you can say, okay, look, I think that the best possible treatment here is going to be a round of psilocybin followed up by a couple's therapy with MDMA. And I think that those textbooks could begin to begin to be written soon. And I think it starts with. experiences like you've had. I think it happens with experiences like common people out there. And this is where I think it gets really, really exciting because we are pioneering a way forward. And those people that may not have a degree that is of a PhD level, but are very experienced in psychedelic substances, I think that they can contribute an incredible amount. They should be publishing papers. They should be writing journals. And they should be getting this work out. there because those are going to be the notes that the future people turn to. So it just, it makes it exciting for me to get to hear about your experience and, and the using of the two

together. I don't know how sold I am on the MDMA before the psilocyte, but I could understand wanting to ease the come up a little bit. But I don't, I'm not, I could imagine that the interaction of those two probably feels phenomenal, but because I haven't experienced at that, way. You know, I mean, I guess I should try it to go that way. You should definitely. So I told you three trips, right? The third trip was this where it was 50 milligrams of MDMA, which was taken at two hours after the initial ingestion of 50 micrograms of LSD, right? And then, and then almost an hour later MDMA. So that's three hours after LSD. I think I took 0.5 grams of penis envy.

So there was pretty strong. Wow. It's all in one session? Yeah, it was within the three-hour gap, right? And everything wasn't too much of a dose, right? And I wanted to experiment. Like, I used to have this judgment maybe eight months back the first time I went to erode or something.

And people had this combinations, right? And I was like, who does this? Why don't you have respect for cycle? Like, take one at them. What the fuck? Like, and you know, after LSD, I think my partner and I, we were talking. And it's like, ha, these adjustments again. Like, comes up.

It comes up. And this time, I just, I was very curious because I was reading this thing. That is a name for the combinations, right? Do you know about it? Candy flipping? Yeah, candy flipping. and then the candy flipping is just psilocybin and lSD i think and then yeah the combinations they have different names but what what basically happened was lsd at 50 mcg is kind of not

micro dose but it's not too much of intoxicating right you're still your language is still sound you're still able to do a lot of things very efficiently and after that mdMA again did suddenly shift the perceptions, but what they were doing was provide such a comfortable platform on which I feel like the shrooms took the trip. And at the time, 0.5 gram shrooms was beautiful. It was enough, it was sufficient. And after that, I think for four hours or five hours,

it was pretty intense. And yeah, I mostly have a lot of music listening on my psychedelic. Lix because that is no because it's just purely there with each tone of the sound, right? The whole music changes what I'm listening to. And that went for four hours. And the come down again was so gradual because the LSD effect stays for 12 hours and MDMAs, so on, so on, Cilocybin for five hours. And these have this combinations working out in a very magical way.

And there is no I felt like that was one of the most easiest trips because usually when I've taken things alone at higher doses there is always this part like why am I doing this shit I don't want to do this

I have this uncrow I could have just you know smoke some weed what's a movie something else right like why am I doing this but I think there was the first time in a trip where there was no none of these questions I was like, wow. And also the best part is cyclics do make you in such a way that you cannot repeat that immediately.

You know, even though I've heard MDMA can be addictive, just because you're combining this in such a unique way, you don't want to take it the next day or the next week. Like, you just simply don't. It's not like smoking a cigarette where you're slowly building up this addiction. It's just the neurons that are responsible for addiction is simply. not happening with these psychics. Yeah. I think, try the combination.

It sounds awesome. Yeah. You know, it makes me one, like, I got a couple points. The one point I wanted to talk quickly about is this idea of taking, like, regardless if you took any one of those drugs, for me, there's a processing period afterwards where even though I may not be high,

like I'm still getting the effects. I feel like I'm still having or at least trying to piece together the abstract thoughts to make sense of them. And for me, that's a, it may not be as intense as the peak, but it's really rewarding because it helps me put together like that missing piece of the puzzle that I was missing. You know, when you have like a puzzle and you're like, I can't think. Is that a corner piece? Why is it all black right? You know, oh, yeah, it fits like that. So for me, it's like a week after.

I still have these insights. And I feel if I rush it, if I do a big trip on a Saturday and then I was going to do something on a Wednesday, I would alleviate that possible insight that I would have if I just took time to process it through that way. But, yeah, I think that that is a very interesting process of taking those three together. At any point in time when you took those three together, did you feel like they kind of came in and melded? That's the way it said. Was there ever a time you felt like they were fighting each other? No.

Oh, they were like friends. So I was at least of the start where I am the platform. Instead of they providing platform, I'm the platform for them to meet. Oh, I like that. So it was more like they were meeting inside me. So what was happening was that and there is no fight there. And with respect to what you said about the insight, it's so true. I think it's what people refer to as Afterglow are maybe just a word that I have with my friend.

I don't mind. It's a thing, right? So Afterglow is definitely, I think it stayed there with the combination of this. It just stays. Right. And once you start integrating some kind of a practice into your daily routine and you're slowly making those changes to integrate this. And it's so true. you if you do add that one more trip immediately, you're not going to get the full benefits

of a psychedelic. You should give it time for, yeah, the insights do slowly come up because you're, I feel like we become more observant. So the barriers take time to come, right? So before the barriers comes, doors of perception, we are standing on the other door. So we get something. Yeah. You always get something out of it.

And I think 2021 was a year where there was no trip. And I saw how things were different then. It's not just that cyclics are essential once in a while. You can let go of them as a tool. But I wasn't there at that point. So I realized after a year, the barriers came up really quickly. And then I think I went two trips back to back. And I felt not so happy about it.

Not because I'm abusing the drug, more so like, I know I could make more use of it. You know, it's all about the timing. You can extract so much more if you just wait for the right time. And that's so true given these drugs. And I don't know, I will definitely encourage you to make that decision and try to give it a day. And you can go for the same dose and I can, you know, we can talk. Yeah. You feel.

Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. It makes me think, as you were talking about your year, like taking a year and then going back to back, you know, I started thinking about my own habits of specifically psilocybin use. And the more that I just kind of came to me, but, you know, the same way that the psilocybin, when you take it, like if you take a healthy dose or even a small dose, but a dose that you can feel, it comes in waves, right? Like, it's like, one wave hits you and you're like, oh, I'm tripping off. okay, not so much. Oh, I'm tripping. And it intensifies like that. I kind of feel like that's the same way. It's almost like a microcosm. That's the same way I've been taking mushrooms. Like I'll go through a phase where I'll take one dose in like three months. And then all of a sudden, I'll take two doses in two months. And then I'll take, I'm going to take a dose every weekend. And then I back off. So it's almost like it's a, it's following that same pattern in the way I take it as the way it hits me. But I didn't think about that until just recently. I'm like, you know what? kind of comes in the same type of waves. But, you know, I had this other point that I've, I was,

I found myself sucked into Carl Jung's red book. And because I'm a mere mortal, like I had to buy the accompany reader, you know, but I've dug down and I found this point and I want to get your, your opinion on it here. So I'm going to read a little blurb right here. Young introduced a distinction between interpretation on the objective level in which dream objects were treated. as representations of real objects and interpretations on the subjective level in which every

element concerns the dreams themselves, as well as interpreting the trip. Now, here's my part. So Carl Jung is talking about the objective, the way we interpret things on an objective level, the way we interpret things on a subjective level, but then he gets into the ideas of interpreting things on a collective level. And I'm wondering, like, maybe the, that's what's happening when you're at the height of a psychedelic trip is that you are beginning to interpret the world around you on a collective level. You know, it's like you, so many people have similar insights and so many people have this feeling of oneness and so many people have this feeling of being in touch with the world around them. I'm wondering what you think about

interpreting the world around you on a collective level versus an objective or a subjective level. I think the, when it involves psychedelics, now that you're talking it, I'm trying to give it a thought in that aspect. But I've always felt it's more of the objective sense where regardless of any person and their ideas, collectivity, it's still like subjective, just it's collective, like language, right? So you're talking, it's a collective. assumption that, you know, this word means this thing, right? Sure. Semantics. Yeah. And it's still subjective, right?

So collectively, it's still subjective. But objective in that part that cyclics, again, my point of view, right, it puts you in a state of awareness that is not attached to any kind of relativity. So I mean like higher doses and deeper states of meditation. I mean, not, you can interact with the world on psychedelics. That's not what I'm saying, but there is the potential for cyclics to offer you a state which is beyond duality. And what I feel like happens on the collective level is most people are able to retain what they felt, the state of oneness, right? And these are approximations towards the truth, right?

It is not the actual thing. The menu is not the food, right? It's like, and so we collectively come up with this thing and to discuss our ideas and so on. And again, at subjective level, it's, yeah, it can be whatever, how you perceive. Yeah, I often wonder, I often wonder what the discussion between Krishna Murdi and Young would have been like, because I think Christian Merti has that idea of like you can't interact with the world. You're just projecting onto the world. Like so you can't have a relationship with the world.

But you know, Carl Young over here is like, wait a minute. So I just, that would be a fascinating conversation to hear. I did have this other crazy insight that I wanted to run by to see what you think. So I did this experiment where I was taking like somewhere between a half a gram and a gram a day for 30 days. And it, you know, not a micro dose, but like not a macro dose either. definitely a dose that you can feel. And so, you know, and while this was happening, like I was able to write down some really cool ideas, or at least what I thought were cool.

And one of them was this idea of the relationship between light and perception. And my idea of it is this, you know, it seems like on LSD or on psilocybin, at times you find the pupil incredibly dilated. And I think of that. I think of the dilated pupil, like an open shutter in camera raw. Like you're getting more information in there. You're getting more light in there. And we've read all these things like light has memory.

And there's all these crazy, you know, words in the lexicon or phrases like they were blinded by the light and move into the light and the, you know, all these things about light. And I'm thinking if your pupils are dilated longer, are you? you getting more information into the computer and able to process it. And maybe you don't thoroughly understand it, but might that be what intuition is? Like, I feel when I'm on a trip, and especially during this 30, 30 day experiment, like I felt like there was not only more of a connection, but I felt like I could read the world around me in a way that was almost foreign. And all I could attribute it to was, well, you could say, hey, you're just done on a bunch

of drugs, you big dummy. Or, you know, or, you know, But I think that there may be something to the idea of the dilated pupil in taking in more light and taking in more information and thus understanding. What do you think? Is that too crazy to think about? It's true. I see it the same way until the part where you told about intuition. So I definitely have wondered why does my pupils go so dilated? I just go and stand in the bathroom mirror and just like, ha.

Yeah. Right. Sometimes I wonder, because all these information is coming, and what's happening is our normal processing system is not able to comprehend everything. So it's trying to put it as soon as it can, and that's why the alicynatory effects, right? So what's happening is like just too much information, but the speed of the system is still not, maybe not enough. Like the shutter is wide open. Right. But the system is still like, wait, we were just firing a bunch of neurons. What happened? Now I got to work more. Like, we're lazy.

So let me just put this bunch of things. And, you know, we have this bunch of synesthesia happening. Like, wait, this is too much information. I don't know. I'm just going to send it to the auditory nerve. But that was light from the ice. Yeah. I don't know.

Just have it. Right? And synesthesia happens. So that definitely happens. But when it comes to intuition, I feel like what I believe is, it's just intuition is something that you carry in your body, right? The same way your body knows how to beat your heart, do the bubble movements, you know, urinary bladder and so on.

You know, it gives you the certain aspect of voluntary response like control, and most of them are happening at a level that we simply cannot you know control it's same with language processing right most of the language is happening at the subconscious level right like we think of that this is what we want to talk about what we cannot talk about it our conscious mind is slow to keep up with the rapid phase these words are generated right and intuition in that sense would be something like close to how a heart is beating but it's just so subtle and I feel like we have so much noise right

and what happens with cyclics with respect to what you have saying is, you know, when we get too much information and it overloads our system, then we are like receding, receding from that to our place of intuition. Like, wait, ah, this sound, I've not visited you because I thought the world was outside there, but you're here, right? And the meditation that I'm following right now has so much to do with perceiving the sensation aspect, right? So, Whatever you're seeing in the world, your body is reacting to it. Right. Your senses are reacting to it.

And you're basically reacting to your senses. That is kind of how they say, well, like, that's how Buddha defined it, right? Or that's the hypothesis we have on the process. Right. And when I'm on these drugs, it gives me more awareness of my body. As you said, MDMA is a great tool for that. That's why I feel like what you said with respect to body awareness, I said with respect to the end of my finger. Yeah, yeah.

Too focused on my normal day. Like until like, oh yeah, my nail is hurting or like something. I'm not focused there, right? So you can be focused even when there is no reason to be focused. After all, there is no reason to things that we are doing anyways. So when I get to that part of watching how my body is reacting to the body is reacting to the the world and how I am basically reacting to my body. I have this uncomfortable sensations, right?

And especially during the come-up of a psilocybin. And it's beautiful what you did, 0.5 grams to 1 gram every day. So you did it every single day. Every day. Yeah. So I'm trying to do that once a week. So I have this 52 week plan for this year. Right.

And I think three weeks it's been going well. I get, I take 0.5 to 0.7, whatever, you know, that particular stem and cap is and how was the come up I know I'm shifting topics I want to get your yeah about how was the how were how were you feeling because I tend to feel that 0.5 to 1 gram can put you in very uncomfortable space more often than not is it so one I I didn't really have too much of a problem with it you know I I would take it I would I would cut it up really fine like almost in a powder you know I put it in a blender and then I've felt that if you do it that way yeah that it's much easier on your

stomach it's a it's a million times easier versus trying to gnaw up a cap or like you on a stem or something like that and another thing that I think is worth noting is that at least in my opinion and this is purely subjective I did not really feel any sort of tolerance at all you know which which kind of is kind of mind-blowing to me because I'm so used to reading the literature of oh you should take it every three days you know or every two days or some people take it every four days and they talk about receptor burnout and all these things but for me i i took it and i felt it every day maybe maybe there's some confirmation bias there you know it's very possible yeah but you know i i didn't feel as if that come up was a problem at all um there were i could feel it at all

But for me, I think it's worth noting that come-ups for me are never really bad. There are times when they're worse than others, but it's not something I notice every time. And it could have been the type of mushroom I was taking. So there's a lot of factors in there. But yeah, I would say some major points that I noticed on that besides the light in the pupil. And the come-up wasn't too bad. I felt for me at least there was not a reduction in tolerance. I felt a, I felt a, like I'm a pretty weird guy anyway, but I felt as if I was sort of withdrawing a little bit from my surroundings.

And I don't classify that as good or bad. I just, I just something noticeable. Yeah. You know, like I felt as if, even though I'm comfortable talking to people and I enjoy that, I felt as if I did kind of want to just be with my own thoughts more so than than without it. Yeah. And I think it's worth noting. I ended up getting sick like on day 30.

I don't know because maybe I had a cold. I don't know what that did to my, but if it did something to my, you know, my immune system or something like that. But I remember before I got sick, I might just keep doing this. I remember being super stoked on it, you know? Yeah. But it's a fun experiment. And I mean, it's if, I think it's worth other people trying and writing down and checking things out. Because I do think there's something to be said about long-term exposure to different states of consciousness and the subjective effects it has with you interacting with the world around you.

So, yeah, it was pretty cool. You have any other questions about it? I kind of like talking about it. I love that. I just wanted to ask that particular part because I also tend to add that different respect with the method of ingestion. I feel like if you're able to create those uncomfortable situations in a manageable range, right?

Like for example, eat it acid. Like I tried to do that and it's so it's just you don't want to do that. Like I don't want to do that. But I'm slowly biting. I take my time five minutes because it gives. me the chance to not react to what's happening in my mouth, right? And I feel like that strengthens my non-reactivity to my things that are happening, which by makes the come up in an interesting way, right? Yes, I think when I did take that five grams, I was just, it was too much shrooms to

eat it. So it's a lot for the first time. And at that time, I think the come up was so smooth. But you're right. I've not noticed it until now, but when you eat it, this whole lot of things happening in the stomach. I tend to see that as an opportunity because that sets the tone for the rest of your day. How much are you able to not react your own things? Because if you know on some level that this is not like going to last long or more like this is not too damaging your stuff, right? You don't need to go to hospital or stuff. Once that's cleared, it's just it's uncomfortable sensations which are going to go away. So what am I going to do?

All I can do is just wait for it to go away. And while I'm waiting, I can wait positively. I don't have to wait. I don't have to wait for it per se. I can exist, coexist with it. But what does happen after an hour of injunction is something magical? It's just, I have found point. to 0.7. Again, penis envy is quite strong.

Really strong. Yeah. So it kind of like, that is very minor hallucinations, very minor. Like if I wanted to just keep looking at something and, right, that's easy. See it moving. Yeah, it does move. But if I also want to think, no, I know it's not moving, right? A house is not moving. It has a good foundation. And it doesn't move. Right. So it gives me, puts me in that range where like, yeah, if you want, you want to have fun,

like remote control, put the elicination challenge. That's so funny. But I still have, after that I still feel like I get to a part of maybe not tiredness, but the afterglow or part where at least for the next two days I don't want to take. Most weeks I work Monday to Thursday long days. So I don't get the opportunity. So I kind of do it every weekend and it's been good. It does.

I feel like it's just like any learning instruments or stuff, right? As you said, if you are recordingly in that state of consciousness, it strengthens there. And it's about where you want to be. Like this world is, you're free to do anything. You're supposed to be. But yeah, at least on some level, that is, that's the only freedom we have. Yeah. I think that.

So the. if we go back to the come up again real quick, it reminds me of something you had said in a previous conversation. You had previously spoken about a retreat that you went to where one of the objectives was to sit and not move your body regardless of what you feel. And sometimes in the beginning one, you're like, ah, I just itch one time, you know, but then you said that you came to this idea of like, yeah, you just sit with it.

And I think that that's the same thing with the come up, right? Like, yeah, you know it's going to be bad. It's going to bother you. But you just sit with it and then it goes away. And in some ways, it's almost like its own little meditation right there. Everything becomes meditation after you know what meditation is about, right? Like, at least, many people argue that meditation is something you don't do, meditation. That's you.

I don't know. But the practice of meditation, what you're doing, trying to go in and sitting for one hour or something, based on whatever practice you have. So what you're trying to do in that one hour slowly kind of translates, throughout the day, right? Like, if let's say you're focused on your breathing to calm your mind, right? Most times when you lose it in the real world situations, you just don't remember that there is a tool for you to remain calm.

You do come back your senses after some time. It's about minimizing the gap, right? But when you keep regularly sitting and when you see that one other thing you talked about, If you're seeing that, yeah, if I'm able to stay equanimous to this, non-react to this, what if I can do in the real world? When something is happening to you and you're reacting to that, like, oh, I do have a practice now of non-reaction. And I can do that. And you come back to your senses more quickly.

That does happen. And it's true. The psilocymen come up is pretty similar to what would happen when you have your blood, not flowing properly in your leg after the end of 58 minute. Just want to move it like just a little bit. Just a little bit. I think the nerve is pinch that, right? Yeah.

Yeah. You should try. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds fascinating. Yeah. I think too, I, you know, sometimes one thing I like to do on my trips, as I've gotten a little bit older and I've gotten more comfortable with the entire

of it is that, you know, I really want to, a few years ago, I really started wanting to bring things back from there. Like, what is it that I can learn? And one thing I've been able to do is I'll take my phone with me. And in the, you know, it's very difficult sometimes to remember what happened. So what I've done is I'll, I'll have my phone in front of me. And it's difficult to see the numbers and stuff sometimes because it's just all blurry. But you can see the big red button. So if you just hit that big red button when you're tripping your balls off and you say into the mic like the ideas that you have like, oh, I can see my life from 25 different reflections right now. Like if you can make some verbal notes or you get, I think in the heightened state of awareness of an LSD trip, an MDMA trip or a psilocybin trip, like you get to try on ideas that you would never get to try on in your regular consciousness. So the trick is to try and describe those ideas to your phone while you're in the midst of it.

And so I would challenge people who want to thoroughly understand their own consciousness or thoroughly understand what's happening to them or what they're thinking of unconsciously to do that, to try to bring something back from the psychedelic state. I think it was Terrence McKenna who once said that your job, a psychedelic trip is like being thrust out under the dark oceans of despair. And once you find yourself in the black squaw, you must cast out your net and let it sink to the bottom and pull it back up. And so many times you pull up your net and it's just thrashed. But every now and then, you pull up that net and there's a giant treasure in there. And you take it back to the shores to share with the people. And I've always found that so powerful and compassion. And I think that that's where we're at.

And I think more and more people are doing that, whether it's your ideas that you've already explained with MDMA or, you know, Benjamin George over there writing books like no absolutes or, you know, Kevin Holt or Paula Powell or, you know, Dr. Johnson talking about the symbolic images, that confer information. But yeah, it's a fascinating time we live in. And speaking of that, I recently read a study, Ranga, about, So I guess DARPA is spending millions of dollars trying to understand if the psychedelic effects can be can help out people who are anesthetized.

They're trying to take away the actual conscious trip and give people the psychedelic benefits while they're anesthetized. Have you heard about this study? And if so, what do you think? It's quite interesting. I have not. So do you, wait, if I'm not getting it wrong, do you take an anesthetic as well as a psychedelic at the same time? So they would put somebody under, like, you know, just put them under, anesthetize them, and then feed them the psychedelics and then see if they are getting the same beneficial results versus somebody who doesn't get them. And one of the reasons they're saying that they're trying this is that, oh, well, people don't want to go through those difficult times.

So what if we just put them under, give them the psychedelics? Will they do it? You know? I think you have to do the work. I was talking to Cole about this. Yeah. I think it's time to take a shortcut. Yeah.

But I also feel that would work in the level that, again, this was something that I kind of got introduced to during meditation, where they talked about the level of awareness that we are usually in. So when I used, when I still sleep, right? I'm completely gone. I just, there is, there is blank space or stuff. And because I smoke weed regularly, I have zero dreams or I don't retain dreams, at least consciously, right? So when I wake up, it's just, I feel refreshed.

There is a gap that I'm just gone and I'm back, right? But when I go to a 10-day retreat and if I'm doing my practice properly, right, you're becoming more aware of your body sensations. and when you do go to sleep, you're not actually sleeping. You have the ability to be aware of your sleep the whole night, right? It didn't happen for me the whole night, but even having the glimpses of, oh, wait, I know I'm sleeping, but I'm aware. Right? It was a state where you're clear.

You're just present. You know the body is sleeping, right? So I do feel like when psychedelics are given during anesthetics, the state of awareness is such a way that we're not tied just to the body. The body is still sleeping. But our awareness is not of this reality or this plane of existence. So our awareness can do, you know, still stay the same. And with respect to taking something back from the trip, it's a good perspective. I think it depends on where you are at the journey, right?

If you're a comfortable person where that privileges, wouldn't have to fight for stuff, wouldn't have problems from society, then of course, when you go have a psychdala trip, you're going to have to take something back because it's about... And for me, I felt like I was on the opposite sides where I was being told to follow these set of stuff. Like I felt like I had low self-esteem.

I felt like I was short. I felt like I was angry. I had these issues, right? So what Cyclics offered me was, oh, this is the place I dropped them. So there is nothing to take. I am perfect as I am. So I can return empty and it, right? So that's what I feel like is different based on where you are at the journey.

Like same with there is this series called Samadhi by Daniel Schmidt on YouTube and Gaia as well and it's beautiful. It's a three-episode thing and they are making episodes, you know, once in a while. And it's basically to get you to meditate. That's the whole idea. The word samadhi is about deep concentrated levels, right? So it's an approximate explanation of what it actually is. But basically what he says in that is, sorry, can you just start me where we were going from? Yeah. So we'd stop. I think we were moving to towards cultural conformity of barriers. Sorry.

I just have brain things. What he was saying in Samadhi was pretty much similar to this. There are two methods to these. And one is via positive and one is via negative. Right? And positive methods, these are not positive and negative, as in good and bad or like harmful and, you know, not harmful.

Positive and negative or examples are like yoga, right? You're going out there. You're doing stuff. you're doing stuff to reach states of consciousness different methods there are different practices where you have to learn a particular skill and then there are methods where you're receding

I'm just going to sit right so what are Wipasana meditation is one of those where you're receding from all activities you go to a dark room wherever you know you're sitting in complete silence you're not engaging you're not adding to more actions, you're not doing it. So there are different methods for people and I've always felt attracted and I always felt

it was the thing for me with respect to negative methods, right? And the same goes to the psychedelic trips, right? I just simply cannot, there is nothing for me to take from that because that's my true state. I actually have a lot of stuff that I have here now that all I can learn is to drop them. Yeah. That is that's fascinating. I never, you know, maybe that points to how small minded I am. Like I have never really taken a time to think about, and I don't, how would you know, I mean, I don't know. I guess I'm, how would you know what other people think about on their psychedelic trips unless you asked them? But yeah, that's fascinating. Do you think it's a cultural thing? Like that this culture makes, it makes sense if you have. have these, you know, if you've fulfilled Maslow's hierarchy of needs up to, you know, point three, then your idea of the psychedelic trip is probably going to be different than someone who hasn't filled one or someone who's at the peak right there. I guess people are searching for

different things in different psychedelic landscapes. But what do you think are some other cultural barriers or some other conformities that happen between different cultures? Because you've got to spend your time, like you're in Canada, you've gone to, Western schools, but you were born in India. So, like, you've gotten to kind of bridge these different gaps. What do you think is some of the differences? Differences? It's hard to say those things because exceptions do apply to everything.

And, you know, you could have a, let's just take, if you're going to talk about white, privileged or black people being, you know, on the bashing side, you can have a case where there is an exception of a black guy who was raised in a privileged way and a white guy who was treated really horrible. So there are no actual cultural things that are happening except for the individual has to figure it out there on their own. Because whatever we can talk about will never reflect the true picture of what is actually going on, right?

So yeah. So personally in my experience, I feel like, yeah, barriers were there. But, you know, I think I've stayed in this path for almost four years now. and that has strengthened my, at least knowing that this is what I want to do. So what I would have considered as problems in my initial part of the journey or not problems anymore because, yeah, it's simply because you have to participate in that deeply enough and you have to be part of the problem, carry it for it to be actually a problem. Right.

So the more you realize you have that power of dropping things, right? One of the things society might tell is that dropping these things is the negative thing. They put the whole issue on the part that if you drop these things, if you drop this cultural things, traditional things, then you're bad, right? But it's actually sometimes when you drop this, it gets to a relieving state. So it's kind of like you kind of have to experiment with what you're doing. And it will take time, you know, because in a psychbilic state, you're much clear of what is that you want to do. Right. But it takes what a night of sleep and then next morning we are back to most of our habit patterns.

Right. And it's going to take some time, some practice. and a lot of just focus on okay this is what I want to help myself truly because we can we can all if we focus on ourselves we can be truly free like freedom is so much within us it's not with respect to predetermined or free will I don't care about that most of the life can happen and cause and effect and like my decisions can be predicted but I don't have to be affected by how my decisions are because it's happening the same way how my heart is beating and so on like decisions happen things happen you don't have to take it as something personally happening to your

you're personally doing you can totally detach from the whole process of your own life just keep watching it and you know the funny thing like life moves forward but in the worst case is death where you stop existing but rest of the time yeah there is there can be a lot of physical suffering and mental suffering and so on, but there is still change is happening, right? Life is moving forward. Things are happening. And, yeah, I think it takes a lot of time and a lot of practice. I think I had recently had an experience with a fire, which kind of surfaced up a lot of fear

of death, right? And it was great to add that because with that came a lot of compassion and, you know, a lot of my anger dropped. Like, let's say the initial thing I had after. cyclics was angered towards, let's say, a system, a particular way of things. And rebelliousness was needed at that point to protect my boundary, but you have to drop that tool also at some point for you to truly help yourself. So I felt like I needed an experience in my life to drop what I was using as a tool.

Let's say that was a point because people, in my initial part of the trip, the common question at least when I went to India was you shouldn't be doing this now you should be doing it post 60 right I think I would have mentioned it almost every time and it's it's funny and at that time you don't know you're still figuring out should I be doing this because I mean you have lived longer like you're 50 years old you maybe what you're saying is right so you're you're still confused so at that point there are certain defense mechanism comes up some people give up their ideologies of what they saw in psychedelics and consider it, oh, it's just hallucinatory drug, real life is different, right? So for me, it was just lucky that I considered what happened on psychedelics to be my natural state. So what the world was asking of me,

I didn't have to do it per se. And it didn't matter because you're still like, things just happened, right? So I was lucky on that aspect that I was able to know this is what I want to do. So I had a lot of anger to, let's say if someone asked like, the fuck you know, at that point, because don't fucking, I'm still like trying to figure out why are you, you know, bothering me. Like, I'm trying to understand this. So now I feel like I've gotten to a point at least with this experience that, yeah, I don't need to be angry. Like I, that's, again, that has become an habit pattern. P, I don't think any of the people who talk to my parents or relatives who is going to talk to me actually bother me. But this is what cultural issues would be. Like,

three years back, it would severely affect me, right? I would spend days thinking if I'm doing the right thing. Now, there is no question. I clearly understand you have your point of view. And same, I have my own point of view. And it's simply, you know, when you ask someone, what do you think about so and so? And if they say, say an answer, it's simply impossible for you to say you're wrong. Because the question was, what do you think? Right. And the whole life I feel like is about what we think and what we want to make of it.

So we can pick up things. We can drop things whenever we want. Yeah. That's well said. We just have to make sure we don't hurt anyone in the process, right? That's one thing, the golden rule in all religions, which I, seriously believe any action that I'm doing. So for example, I think I saw this post on LinkedIn about etiquettes.

There was a five-minute video of different etiquettes, right? And I was like, so for me, etiquette was never there in India. We were free, right? And then the first time I had to go to, let's say, a partial place with one of my relatives. It was like, I had to use fork and spoon and it was like, I had to learn on the spot. and it's fine. And then after psychilics, I dropped all those. I don't care.

This is how I eat. Like, this is how we eat. Like, what can I do? If I didn't have hands, would you expect me to have a fork and a spoon? No, you'd understand. So consider me disabled, I don't care, but I'm just going to eat the way I want. Right. Because if you are getting bothered about this, it's a place for you to work.

Right. And this is one of the things I initially add about my, like, letting me. like letting my hair grown. Most times people who say something to me, let's say this happened in India six years back, right? So two months I felt bad and I went up and cut my hair. So now I just started growing and when, again, as I say, like the more people are used to how you are,

they really don't care. It doesn't bother. What bothers them is the change, the initial, ah, how can you? I've seen a lot of, you know, shaved people. Why do you have a beard, right? That initial shock. But if people keep seeing.

bearded people, people keep seeing un-groomed people, people keep seeing, you know, people with no etiquettes, it's fine. That's how the world will be. And you know, same makeups, right? I truly believe like if we like drop all that aspects of trying to cover up, that's how we provide opportunity. Same with why do we take Cygdilics to strengthen the states of consciousness. So you need to give people the chance to see as you are so that they get a chance. to accept as you are. If we keep covering ourselves, of course the day we forget to cover, it's going to be a, ah, why not today? What happened? Are you okay? Imagine if a person is putting makeup for weeks and weeks and one day they don't do, people assume she's sick or

he's sick. Don't you think so? I felt so. The day I haven't, I used to shave every day with my 25 pieces of hair like 80s back age. And if I didn't, even, even my, even my, dad my dad shifts every day compulsively and when he doesn't he's like are you okay he doesn't do it on a important religious day or like you know anniversary day of you know death anniversary and so on but by my point being i all i realized was we have to give people the chance to see as we are so lots of back and forts to doing that yeah it makes me think of the concept of masks you know like everybody's wearing this mask and I wear a mask like I wear a mask of a truck driver sometimes where I wear a mask of a father or I wear a mask of a teacher or I you know and it brings me back to the ideas of

when I think of culture and masks and covering up and etiquette and all these sort of things that we do to portray an image of someone we want to be there's a really good myth that I read um I forgot which tribe it was. And I think it was in Joseph, some sort of Joseph Campbell book I was reading. And it was this idea. And it was like, in this particular tribe, they, the elders in the tribe, you know, they would, every now and then an elder would walk to the tribe with a mask on. It wouldn't be a scary mask. It would be like a hat, like a clown mask. It won't be a sad mask. And from time to time, these elders with these masks, they would walk up to the children. And by children, I mean like, ages like seven and below.

And if it was a scary mask, the person of the mask would scare the kid. If it was a clown mask, they would walk up and tickle the kid. And if it was a sad mask, they'd be crying. And there was a series of other masks. These are just examples. And then at the age of 12, there was the people with the masks would break into the house of the child that was turning 12. And that they would go around the kid's bed and they would take the kid.

And the mom would come in and, like the mom was in on it. The parents were totally in on it. And the kid would be like, oh, mom, dad, don't let him take me. And they would take the kid and they would take him out of the middle of the street. And the mom and dad would try to fight, but they would let the kid go. And now the kid finds themselves in a circle of their elders all wearing masks.

And the kid's crying and, ah, freaking out. And the person with the scary mask would go into the circle and they would scare the kid. The kid would freak out. And then the elder would take the mask off and show the child, hey, I'm your uncle. And then they would take the mask and they would put it on the kid. The kid would be like, whoa.

And then the next, the sad mask would come out and start crying and be super sad. And they would take the mask off. And then the kid would see, hey, it's my aunt. And then they would take the mask and they would put it on to the kid. And I just thought like, what a beautiful way to show the next people coming up. You, everybody you see, whether they're happy, they're sad, they're angry, they're upset. They're wearing a mask. And guess what?

You wear the mask too. But what a beautiful way to show people in the environment and your surroundings. This is how you deal with people like that. Hey, sometimes you should put on the happy mask and help people. Sometimes when you see someone that's scared, they're wearing the angry mask, but they're just masks and we're all the same. And I feel like we've gotten away from that in our societies. And I actually tried to get this thing going at my kids' school.

But they were like, do you're weirdo, knock it off, man. But like, wouldn't that be a great way to show kids? it's quite an amazing thing like you know doing it these are beautiful parenting tricks you know yeah but kids dad and mom are not the only parents

right and you observe that in mostly in Chinese culture at least what I've read so far that the parenting is something they do collectively right and these are beautiful tricks to help kids not to think to permanently of situations

that are actually very temporary and effemeral, right? One of the main points of the meditation that I practice is the law of impermanence that nothing stays. Everything is going to keep changing, changing, changing. And you have to, there is, we be more,

most of us know, not most. Like almost, let's say, all of us kind of know that we're going to die. Right? Yeah. We don't experience the urgency of life as such. Like, the only way we get lost, right now, I'm focusing every day. I'm not present.

all I can focus is I'm going to die. But knowing that doesn't help me, I have to do something that actually evokes that. Same way, we have to teach these at the right time that these are temporary things. You know, when we remove that mask, it's beautiful. The more this happens, the kid is going to learn that this is the natural state of us. Right. And when some people put on the masks for days together,

those are times we don't get affected. Now it's the opposite way. Like people who get put masks together, I mean, for a lot of days, that's a solid reality. That's how we should be. Like, when know who you are is kind of misinterpreted that way.

Like be yourself. It's not be your emotion, be your true self. But in order to do that, there is a lot of, you know, uncovering we have to do. But that's the journey. So it's, you know, talking like this.

It brings out the things that I could do better in my life. And in that way, I do agree with Krishna-Mutti what you said. More times, I think it's very much the projection of us rather than actual interaction. And what you said at the beginning of the conversation with respect to MDMA, I think we kind of stop the pretension, we stop the projection and we actually connect. Right? It happens very gladly.

And I used to not accept this. You know, because there is always the spiritual ego that, ah, I can connect. better with people. But then the more, the sooner I accept these truths about myself, it's easier for me. Because things are not going to, just because I intellectually say that I'm better, I'm not going to be better. I actually have to do the work. And this kind of ties up with your thing about, DARPA, by the way, is that the difference thing? The book? I'm sorry? No, no, no. The experiment you said about the anesthetics and the psychedelics, right?

you said DARPA or something. DARPA, yeah, DARPA is, they're like the US military government, right? Yeah. So I think that one, as it bypasses the place where we can actually do the work. Right. We kind of tend to do the work in our stages of suffering. Like when things are good, I don't think anything happens. Like, I seriously feel like you're in a state of bliss, you experience.

it's it's all good but nothing is going to change all bad things that might happen out of that is you can crave that state but with no capability to do what's essential to do to attain the state without the influence of drugs so yeah it's fascinating to think about i um yeah the darpa one blows my mind because I think that you have to, you know, you have to see, it's seeing the things that don't make sense that create that change, at least in my mind, like you have to have the difficult come up maybe, or you know, or you have to have the thoughts about it or maybe you don't have to have the difficult come up, but it is the change in the way you physically feel. I don't know. The experiments, I can't wait to read them. I think that there's an issue there, but

yeah. I feel like it's as small as hiking a mountain rate. It's one thing getting lifted and put at the peak. Yeah, you can see, but it's still not the same. You can feel ecstatic about it. Oh, I'm at the top of the mountain and so on. But the one who does the work of climbing every step is going to feel different. These are inexplicable things, but what is actually happening at their level of consciousness is going to be much different than getting dropped off at the peak. Right. Right.

I read this another article yesterday. I didn't read. I just saw the title. Sorry. But it said, I think it went like people are inventing drugs like psychedelics where you can trip without tripping. Yeah. Weird.

And so how do we, you know, distinguish. which part, like for example in cannabis, we have narrowed down these set of components which kind of puts you high and then there are components which, you know, helps with the bodily things. Let's say CBD and THC, right? Right.

But I don't know if we have still, like we are trying to do that with cyclics, but it's just so funny to me because personally eating weed seems simpler to do. With cyclics, it's just crazy. So which part is actually

helping us is going to be difficult to find. Yeah. Like you don't know. It doesn't have to be the excess of serotonin. Sorry for cutting you, but it doesn't have to be the excess of serotonin boost, right? Because there came a paper recently saying that depression might not

be, you know, due to lack of serotonin as what we have believed so far, right? It could be. You never know. So it might not just be that thing that keeps producing serotonin might be doing the trick. So what essentially does the trick and

how we are going to, you know, narrow it and take it out. And the question comes, why do we want to do it? That's the important part. Like, why are we trying to do that? And I feel like it's the part that is completely against our level of existence. Like, in this plane of reality, I used to think about this when I fill water at my work, right? It's a very slow tap. It takes almost like one and a half minutes to fill this one letter, right?

And I'm like holding this. And then there is this thought. I want this instantly done. Then where do I draw the line? Because then I want to instantly eat. I want to instantly finish the work at 4.30 p.m. I want to instantly do this, do this. Then what is getting done?

I want to be, then we'll instantly die. So there is no life happening. The whole life is happening during the waiting period. Right? We're always waiting without, you know, being tied up to the result of the outcome of what we are waiting for. Right. You can wait for things.

Just early, jolly wait for things. It reminds me. I read a quote on your, on something you posted that talked about, you know, process versus goals. And like we create these goals to get to,

but they're just an arbitrary thing. Like the actual, the actual life is in the process. And I read that right before I went to bed. And then I had a dream about that. Like I woke up with this aha moment. Like, oh my god it's just and it's not really that even though i thought it was an aha moment like more than

i think about it's like yeah it's just what they were talking about but it's just this idea of life is process and it gets back to what you said earlier like that is the freeing part of it if you just realize it's not about getting somewhere it's not about attaining anything it's about the process of that like the goal the the thing the shiny object object is more of of just that, a shiny object where the process of getting to it is the real gold. And that's the freeing moment. And I think that that's what frees us is like, hey, that thing that you're, that you're worried about trying to do, you're doing it right now. You should enjoy it because that's the thing you're doing. It's the thing you're supposed to be doing. Right now is the attainment of the thing. It's not the thing at the end of the tunnel because there is no end of the tunnel.

There is no, it's just a bright light, you know, it's, yeah, it's, it's fascinating. And I, it's, it's, it's fascinating. I must have read that right before I went to bed because, you know, I woke up thinking about it. But yeah, it's the process. It's the idea of life around us unfolding in every step. That's the beauty. And if you can enjoy it, if you can be thankful for it, you know, it's whether you're filling up a water bottle and having a few moments to be there. I don't know. I guess it's like the heck of a realization happen if I didn't have, if I had an instant water filler.

But if I had someone who would fill my water, then where I'm stopping and reflecting, right? So yeah, those are periods I think personally for me, it has changed to observing. So it's still not present moment. You're not, you're still thinking about present moment. But I feel like for me, I've gotten better in at least being here thinking about this, then being somewhere else, right? Like, what can I do after I fill my water? I think meditation changes that aspect.

So it's going to come, especially when you sit, you should try when you go and sit for one hour and sometimes, you know, your mind rushes. Do you realize time moves at the same speed? And especially when you go for the 10 day retreat, oh, it's so scary and it's so, it's your peak boredom, you know? You want to like pull your hair. You want to run away because you're sitting for this one hour sit and suddenly you want to like do things faster, right? let's say you're aware of your sensations you want to get get it done and then this thought pops up okay i get it done i go outside pee and i come back and i sit again so what's i'm just going to keep doing this for the rest 10 days so you when you create that space you actually you know

add these things the same what you said with taking shrooms almost every day right where what you want to see as withdrawal from the surrounding it's beautiful that you see it as a not a good or a bad thing. It's a neutral thing. It is as it is. And we can use it for our own, you know, good. When it is bad is because it's only cases where, you know, you're at a place where people are drowning and people are getting hurt and you just watch like, nah, not today. I'm going to enjoy my good. Those are the moments. But more often than not if you're consciously, if things are fine, it's totally, it's one of the best things. things we can do given the amount of distractions we have withdraw.

Yeah. It is necessary. I think there's so much competing for our attention. And that made me, so this brings me to a quote, one of your friends brought up. Your friend, Adrian Gerlach brought up this quote that says,

robot dogs are guarding events and students are asking if chat GPT can write their lab reports. You know, what an interesting world to be alive in? Like, there's so much distractions. Like, look at all this happening. Like,

what do you think about when I say that quote? beautiful before we go into this yeah he was he was my professor at for my master program okay i'm so thankful to him till till date like that would never go because uh i did zero work and you didn't remove me off he was always uh you know very helpful very open-minded he was you know i've heard before coming canadian are nice people but you could meet you know again these there is always exceptions to rule but he was like whatever ideas I had, he was that person and, you know, regardless of the things that I've done, he still, you know, helped me complete my master's. And that's the only reason I'm still here

in Canada, because there would be no other way to continue living here. So I'm so tired. I think I was one of the things I had towards him was so much guiltiness until like two years back or even until last year. Then one day I thought, this is enough. I'm going to call him. And then we talked about how was the worst investment that he has ever made for a student. You could have spent that time and money on someone else and anyone would have done a better job. But you're coming back to that. It is funny, right? Like, it's just interesting times we live in.

And with respect to chat, GPD, I see a lot of writers especially coming up with this. This week has been very interesting for me. I just can't stop thinking about it. My job is going to be taken away from chat GPD. I still haven't personally used it, but I did read a lot of things posted on LinkedIn, and it's quite interesting. Have you?

Did you do anything with chat GBT? I haven't done. I've spoken to many people who have, and I heard some interesting ideas about it. And on one level, on one level, I still think it's like a complying. piler. Like it just goes out and like takes other people stuff and puts it together. And I guess on

some level, I could see how it can be a threat. But I see it more of a tool. You know, I see it more of like something people can use to build upon like a platform. And you know, I've seen some interesting people. I think it has a problem with understanding reality and truth. And I spoke to one gentleman who had asked it why washing machines were able to get Donald Trump elected. And it gave this reason why washing machines had played a pivotal role in getting Donald Trump elected. So it doesn't really have a good grasp on like the true reality of what's happening. And I think that the more people, once people get over the, the, once they get over that of it, they're going to go, ah, yeah.

And that's one more thing about us, humans, right? Like, the immediate change, we react to the immediate change. And then once it becomes a normal thing, like, yeah, it's whatever. Yeah. My bills are consistent. I would rather be focused on that. Right. I still think, like, these features, if you personally ask me,

I would do the same with respect to what you mentioned, the chat GPT compilates doing. Like, I basically, I do not have new ideas. I see the world. I put things together and that's what the mission is doing. And pretty much I feel like that's what's happening. Like that is, you know, what we call as inventions and discoveries. Inventions are just hidden discoveries.

Yeah. Yeah. That is nothing we invent. Things are that. we just play with the combinations and so on. And I think it's a good starting point if we have something that is going to keep doing that and eventually one day, like, huh, I can put any two pieces together without having that limit condition. Yeah.

In some ways, I think it's. I'm sorry, your voice got delayed. Continue, please. I'm just saying, like, I think that. that much like what you're saying, it's not so much about us inventing new things as it is, just new combinations of things. And if you look at it from that angle, it's not really taking away any writer's job. It's just allowing them to change the way the outcome is going to look. You know, you're just switching the order of things. And so the, the talented

writer is just going to be able to use this as a new comment. of things moving forward. And if you, if you pan back a little bit and see, okay, the same thing's happening with artwork, the same thing's happening with writing. So it's,

it's not so much that we're, the future is going to be, it's not so much, you can get a good look at what the future is going to look like by understanding that we're putting together new combinations of things. So, you know,

you're still going to be, you're still going to be in the ring throwing punches, but you're not going to throw a left, left, right. Now you're going to throw like a uppercut, right, right knee to the face. You know what I mean? It's just going to be a different set, a different set of combinations. So maybe if you put it in terms of language, like, you know, you can't come up. Here's a good thought experiment that I think embraces it. If I ask you to create a brand new monster, Ranga, can you do it?

Like, tell me a monster that never existed that you just. made up. Tell me one, like make one up for me right now. Ego. Okay, there you go. Well done. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's what it comes down to. I guess. But you're right about what you said with chat. GPD. It's, it's all tools. It's the unique, the combinations of these things. One doesn't replace the other. That's what we always think, right? Like, you know, that fear is, fear leads to that thought. But when we are in a state of love, we see possibilities.

We don't see extinction. We see possibilities. Like, yeah, this is that. So how can I hate him or her or how can they aid me, right? Like, now we just have a distinction between like, oh, humans can help each other. But AI, we just talk in a very primal level of like, they might take over us. What's taken over? We're already taken over.

They're taken over by something or the other, you know. Right. Something happens in the sky. Something happens to the old planet. We're gone. We're taken over. So it doesn't matter. Enjoy the time we get and do things so what we get.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. It's so true. It's just part of us. It's just another dimension opening up for us to explore. And it's going to, it is whatever you say it is. Oh, is it a demon?

Yep. Is it an angel? Yep. It is. The choice is yes. The tiny part is where I think our freedom lies. Most of the things can be very predetermined, right? Like I've been interested in reading the spiritual side of how they are trying to

arrive at this predetermined notion of the world, you know, in which karma works, where you cross that line of having that awareness to say, enough of karma, I'm going to take up my thing. but then the cause and effect just doesn't stop like that still contributing to a lot of things right but it's still you you define freedom in that space of predetermined motion it's the paradox i believe like both exist at the same time i have zero free will and i have complete freedom yeah yeah and it's amazing like again that's one more thing which is freeing right when we think about journey rather than the destination because destinations are i was never fascinated by destinations because one i didn't

go to so i was always craving for it but i was craving it so much i know with so much expectations when i went there it was so fleeting because like you know old bus ride let's say if i'm going to go to a beach i'm thinking about it when i go to our beach it's still not enough for me i want more right i want more so it's not enough so what do i do right so i have to change where I can get these whatever I was looking for at the beach, I'm able to get it everywhere. And as you said, it all becomes, it becomes freeing. So I have this T-shirt, see, thank you, thank you, thank you for nothing. I love it.

Yeah. There's a lot going on there. Yeah. It reminds me I once heard someone talking about a, bumper sticker, but the story is, someone saw a bumper sticker that says, man thinks, God knows. God knows man thinks. There's like a lot going on there. Like, you know, does that, like, it just reminds me of your shirt. Thank you, thank you for nothing. There's like, how do you interpret that? Like, how do you interpret when I first heard that story like, you know, man thinks,

God knows, does that mean that man thinks that God knows everything? Or does that mean man thinks that God knows? You know, but it just comes down. The point I'm trying to make is interpretation, whether it's a trip to a destination or whether it's a trip that you go on internally. Like, you know, it gets us back to language. Like, you know, sometimes I think it's weird. We talk about the psychedelic experience as a trip because it is on all aspects, a trip like you're going somewhere or you think about when people get high like what does it mean to be high well usually it means that you're looking down at yourself and how many times i've been high so many times and thought about my life from a different perspective that could be considered

getting high so i just think that there's a lot in the way we see ourselves there's a lot in the way we see the world and maybe it just comes back down to language and thinking and being thankful for nothing. I wouldn't agree with that part. Thank you. Thank you for everything would be something I've changed. But the class or whatever to itself, 500% support.

We bring up our own disappointments, I think. This was something again. It's very common. It's a very common reminder to me because on psychedilics, one thing I've noticed it is, at least consciously, I do not have expectations at that moment. That's a great point. He's conscious, right?

There could be subtler notions of these expectations of this is the thing should be, but it frees up the space in your, you know, consciousness, right? And I'm not disappointed. And so when I'm sober and I get disappointed or any kind of uncomfortable, I'm like, huh, what expectation did I have? Why did I think things would go this way, right? Like, huh, let me see, right? And it's so hard.

like the moment you're not aware of just what is aware of the unspeakable you're just going to have expectations you're you're you're going to play it out based on the past yeah it's so it's so hard to that that thing is there in DNA and and even i am like 50 50 50 on reincarnation stuff but i believe in the part where so much information is carried in DNA right and it's been part for years and years and years and without the right set of people doing the right set of you know untangling stuff you just have a lot more work to do you're there is reactions happening at very subtler levels right and um with respect to this uh cyclics are just another thought popped up yeah one of the things uh what meditation was explaining at least the teacher

Resson Gawenka was explaining was, our subconscious is reacting. And when you stop reacting, the subconscious, you become conscious of your subconscious. It's not subconscious anymore, right? You'd start teaching, the subconscious is handling information based on past events. Right. It has to survive. So this is how it reacted last time. So I'm going to react the same way.

And energy is being consumed every single time. Right. And when you're meditating and when you get to that part, your subconscious, your body is reacting to the pain. Your body is reacting to this particular form of sensation. This particular thing I don't want. And when we stay with it, it is hard. But when we stay with it, I feel like that subconscious space that is reacting now turns up to you and says, oh, you're present now. I give up the power to you. Right? That creates that space. So what is if you want to see it as a vertical thing? Your conscious space processing is this much.

And as you go down, down, down, you have more space to handle information, right? And once you create enough space, so when in a real life situation, when a reaction is happening, you tend to see it as the subconscious doing and you talk with your subconscious rather than interact with the world and say, oh, you're not supposed to do that. That's unnecessary. because it's for him I can come back to tickets or whatever, right, dressing and so on.

Because instead of people telling other people, oh, you're making me uncomfortable, like, no, I simply cannot make you uncomfortable. Your subconscious is making you uncomfortable. We tend to see to our subconscious and say, I'm here now. Why are you reacting? Right.

And then all the subconscious wants is like, I need you to be here. just because you're not here, I had to do this work. I don't like working. So if you are here, well and good. And slowly, slowly, slowly, when we stop reacting, reacting, reacting at so many, you know, levels, I think it just frees up our consciousness to process information in a very healthy way.

Or in the way it's, it would be where, you know, you're just there. Yeah, that's really well put. I've never thought about it from that angle before. But yeah, it's, you know, so many times it's so cliche to hear someone in a lower state say things like, see what you made me do. Or anytime people, anytime you say that someone else is responsible for your anger, for your pain, for anything. Like that's, that is a ridiculous statement because only you have the ability to make you feel any way at all, right? Like that, that's the reactive state where you're allowing someone to have power over your feelings. that's kind of ridiculous.

But I never thought about DNA and karma being linked like that. Like it does make a lot of sense that the way in which the people who came before you were trained or had a stimulus response. You too would have that stimulus response if that was never, if it was never taken the time to solve a problem, that problem is kind of passed down to the kids. Like, is that, am I making that assessment right? Are you saying that DNA and karma are linked in a way like that? Karma is more of a bigger picture, I would say in the sense that it involves more of the interactive nature of the world.

For example, if you want to believe in reincarnation and karma, right? Let's say you start a fire today in Hawaii and you kill yourself, right? Tomorrow you're born to a parent in Hawaii only and that fire reaches you and kills you. That's karma. You did it for yourself, right? It's a simpler way to explain it, but it doesn't have to be that simple. But in it's, in DNA, what I mean is more so with respect to particular traits and features, right? For example, I have this particular curly hair because my dad and mom got that particular genes, right?

So I carried it. I don't have a straight air. Same with these particular things. A lot more is happening. Settler reaction, right? After all, like if you see from the viewpoint of quantum physics, right, everything is made of these quarks, quarks joining together to form electron, electron circling the proton and neutron to form an atom. And it keeps growing on and on. But the primal reaction that's happening at every single minute specimen, it's the same.

It's all the same, right? So it just, when it builds up together, we tend to perceive things in a different way. But that's why when you know more times when we are in psychedelics or stuff, we are able to go into the deeper parts. Like when we say deeper, it's just we narrow it down, right? Through that narrowing down, through that, I think this ties to one of our conversation about through that specialization, we kind of reach the one. We got the everything. So I think in that way DNA does 100% effect. as well as generational trauma, right?

It kind of causes because, you know, that there is, when I was reading psychology, right, they say that most of the, some people simply are born in such a way that their happiness doesn't go over 50%. You know, their biochemical mechanism is in such a way. And that when they interact with this world in a particular thing and the world even can act as a trigger,

which can lead to a particular form of response, right? It could be depression due to the biochemical makeup of the body. So if those things can happen, along with the particular set of situations that's created in your family, of course, like, that's the first place we need to work at, right? We need to stop those things, right? And that's the funny part. We're going to take time to find out what's the healthy way

to drop a particular issue, right? The small line of difference between letting go versus suppression. Am I putting it deep down again in my subconscious? Or am I truly letting it surface up and I'm letting go? And you play with a lot of set of methods to figure out what is comfortable for you. And once I think you find it, you just stick to it with all you got. What do you think is the difference between support? In what aspect?

Difference for me is basically that, yeah, suppression is pretty much what you think. Like at that moment, you still feel okay. You can convince yourself you're not angry. You know, and when you surrender, you're not angry. So you don't know if you're telling the truth. But when it's resurfacing up again and again, then it's a form of suppression. So I felt like I have done that over the course of last two, three years where, because I still don't know what I'm doing with my insight. Because there is no rule book.

There is no particular way to do things. No one teaches me. There is no way to communicate what meditation is. Like you, everyone says, you sit and you will know. You won't know. And you can give an outline of, okay, this might, how you would be doing it. As I said, you can never directly point the finger there. So you kind of like go around circle.

When you're going through that, you might find your own way. Because if I point directly, it's not going to happen in this lifetime. It's the same with our head. And letting go in certain states can be so easy, but it also can mean that you're free of it right now, but it's there. So how do you process it? Something like, I don't have it. right answer. It's trial and error. I'm still doing my part and fixing those things within myself.

And it's funny. It takes time. And after a point, you just stop. You understand I feel like, like you have these things. Acknowledgement is the first part, right? So even if something you're truly surrendered, it's fine to say you still have it. I have anger issues towards. Yeah. Because what you say is not the truth. What is happening experientially is the truth. If I say something about your daughter, like you can have a calm face, but your body might be boiling with anger. Yeah.

So that's your truth, not what you portray to the world. So it will take time to slowly see what we can do. Yeah. Yeah, it's, surrender's a tough one for me. I there are plenty of things that I've had to surrender to, but I don't know that I've ever been happy about surrendering to them. Interesting. Do you want to continue or if you want to?

Well, yeah, it just makes me think like, I think that the idea of surrender for me carries with it an inherent weakness. And it's that weakness that is difficult for me to embrace. I know it's there. And I know that there are things that it is silly to not surrender to. But there's still too much fight in me to thoroughly let go. And I think that that to me is where I'm doing my most learning is understanding that difference right there.

And I know where that fight is for me. But I don't know. It just still has such a negative connotation to me. But I think that that just means that's where the work is. Yeah. I, it's good, right? Like, you have these set of ideas and,

instead of assuming that you have an answer and you're settling for it, there is definitely work for us to do, keep on doing, right? At the psychological level, I mean. And it's good to add these starting points. Yeah. And most of, yeah, most of the ego part that is developed by the world, right? kind of sees surrender as a weakness. Same with seeing the becoming nobody, right?

The ego doesn't want to be a nobody, wants to be that special thing. So for that, thinking about nobody is so terrifying. Like, how can I be nobody, right? But the ego is not us, right? It's just a set of habit pattern, set of defense mechanisms, set of subconscious reactions that are happening to keep us alive, kill this part where we can look at them and say, you've taken me so far

you don't need you right not not anymore and it doesn't I do believe this paradoxical thing of like trauma processing happens almost instantaneously right when we know the art of letting go it happens instantaneously

because I was watching this video of Sadguru the other day like when there is no distance to travel you're already sitting and I have to sit like it doesn't take any time but you're not doing stuff same with our mental world, we feel like enlightenment and stuff

happens in one second. Letting go of stuff happens. But it's more about, again, that that's the destination, right? Let's say it's the journey of going back and forth, the pendulum, right? Which is my, where is the gravity

of my particular pendulum that it's, which is the middle point for me? I have to explore my whole range to see this is the balance, the middle path for me to walk on. And yeah, if you consciously know that surrendering is not a bad thing and it's just a defense mechanism that comes up saying that, oh, surrendering will make us weak. You know, I feel like the truest of power resides only when you surrender. Like you completely let go of what you thought anything worse, which means even the concept of surrender, right?

Like we cannot, I have an idea of surrender would be like this. This is how I would like, you know, that's why in India you can see all these. It's a great thing, you know, if you are coming out from a culture like the Hindu where people do have a lot of offerings and stuff. They pour tons of milk on statues and, you know, offer foods, fruits, flowers and whatnot, right? So these are forms of surrendering, like offering, a charity. But all these originates again at a very individual level. We have to do it with our thoughts.

We have to do it with our action. In Bhagavitha, there is a line which says, Krishna says to Arjuna that do your work and give the fruits of the outcome to me. Dedicate your fruits of the outcome to me. It's more so with respect to that it again comes to this. It's all circles around the same part. Don't be worried about what happens in the end. Because there is no actual physical God we are going. to give certain things.

You know, you want to get a job emotion. These are fun. When Bhagatheeta says, offer the fruits of that, like, where do you go and do this? It's all a mental concept to make us understand that

let go of what's going to happen out of this, but do it very mindfully, very intentionally, very much with whatever process you're doing. Don't worry what happens in the end. And it's great. you started a new chain of thing for me with respect.

I do wonder once in a while it's like how much of this is suppression. Am I just suppressing? Once in a while I go like fully crazy. I sit and I'm like, what if the world is right? What if I'm wrong? What if I've been like completely stupid

and you know doing these set of things thinking that this is the right thing? And then I'm like I'm slightly losing it right. again, there are defense mechanisms that helps you. And sometimes defense mechanisms are going to help you the way towards your goal you are set and not against it. And then I think about certain things of people getting enforced into doing things they don't want.

And then I think, maybe I'm not completely wrong. Of course, I can have a few things to change. And then I'm like, it's too much of thinking. Just don't get lost in thought. This is getting lost. And you're going in circles again and again. And that's the thing, right? It's not.

It's circling when you see it from the top. But when you see it from this side view, it's like spiral, which is going. It is slowly moving towards the same. Right. And it'll take time. A lot of, and one, I, one thing, I've never believed that there is something humans need to possess. But I have felt more so grateful. And I felt like gratitude came to me.

when I'm learned patience. So when we have patience is the only virtue, right? It kind of helps you with everything. Because I, today, as of the second, all I can think my problem is I rush. I just rush. My mind is rushing towards the next thing. Apart from that, there is no problem. Because if something is happening and if I'm with it, there is no narrator to say this is good.

I don't want this to be happening for another 23 minutes and 34 seconds. Sorry for counting the first 36 minutes of meditation, but, you know, it's the problem comes to specifically that, that, oh, I'm not here, I'm not here, I'm not here, and when you're here, it's, I guess it's beautiful. And patience is something that we need to have. It's a very, you know, again, when you, if you do give it a try, I would definitely totally recommend to you that you should try to try to, find a place and look for the 10 days that I'll find for you they have a branch in Hawaii or maybe we can talk with the foundation and start one in Hawaii but yeah that'll be epic like I would I'd be down when I when I see people like especially you I know right like I'd feel you like I want you to feel really miserable I want you to run away no it doesn't have to happen that way but if you did feel I would actually be

happy for you. I want you to be miserable, Judge. You're so kind. I know that, like I, so I've had, I've done a similar thought experiment or I've been caught in a similar set of thoughts where I have, I've run that road of like I'm doing everything wrong. And I've stayed there. But for what pulls me out of there, like I'll stay in that circle of thought sometimes for, you know, often on a day or a couple of days sometimes. And what always snaps me out of it is the fact that regardless if I'm doing it wrong or I'm doing it right, I'm going to end up at the same spot. And then I start laughing.

And that's usually what pulls me out. But I can go deep into that spiral and be like, that's all wrong. It's all fucking wrong. What am I? Why? Why would I do that? That's so dumb. I've been doing that forever. And then all of a sudden, after a few days, I'm like, well, I'm still in the same spot that I was like a month ago. So maybe I'm doing it right. You know that I just start laughing. Like, that was a total waste of time. I just wasted a month. And then the spiral will start again and then the psychedelics have to get involved. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think it's so crazy.

This is beautiful. Like you spend that and, um, these are the things. right, but what you feel like, I am speaking for you a little bit, but what you would consider waste of time kind of turns out to be the most significant thing you do, right? Like you kind of go into a next cycle trip and you think like one thing that happened to me personally was having no regrets. You simply cannot regret anything. Like if your goal is towards, let's say, like a particular thing, like if it's with meditation, towards enlighten my mind. right? If you are born enlightened, what would you do? And if you're not born enlightened, of course you're going to have these trauma. Everyone is going to be traumatized. Trauma can be a very small thing.

Trauma can be very big thing. Trauma can be very impactful. Trauma can be very slight. I'm not overusing the word, but I think in some way we all need to have that bit of thing that, you know, kind of gets us to a place where we're like, but why me? Why am I being put through this? Who is doing this to me? Right. we need to get to that space. But when we truly get there, I feel like we don't look back and say it was a waste of time. Because what things could have happened if not for that. I can't think of anything. Like my mind is so limited to think of alternate possibilities of what could have rolled out.

If I had taken a left, I would have got smashed by a car. If I had taken a right, I would have hit by a train. Like, I went straight. I tripped on a stone. So I'm still here. You know, when the fire happened, this happened in our house, right? So all the firemen, like, there were 35 firemen in our house, right? Six trucks, because the properties I'm living and we're living in, it's all attached properties.

But only one fire truck was needed, 10 seconds of water was needed, but they were prepared, right? And police came and fire investigation and so on and on. Yeah, there was intense panic for first two minutes. And then when we got up the house and it was like, yeah, whatever, right? You were fine. And then there was this part of just such compassion that I felt like I needed this particular experience that I was lacking. Right. There are events that are happening.

I intellectually know that my food is arriving from somewhere. Like someone is working and that's how I'm able to eat. someone is doing something, someone is always doing something for me to continue breathing us of this point. Like the internet that's there that connects us, everything is happening. Intellectually I know. But I had to be put through that very experientially where I had to drop my thinking of, oh, I know people are helping me.

I actually had to experience that so much of fucking dependent being. Where did the arrogance come from, right? And from, I don't know where it started. But all the people that, you know, came. None of them asked, none of them said, oh, it shouldn't have happened. It's avoidable fire or this or that, nothing.

They're like, you two and the dogs are, three dogs are alive. Great. House can always be reconstructed. You know? And that's true. Because when you see it, and that's why it said the fear of death when it arrives is,

it's an opportunity for us to start. No, we necessarily don't have to wait for a near-death experience for us to change our lives. But sometimes that's the wake-up calls, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I don't know whether if it's because I've been talking to you since our relationship started or it's psychedelics. But in the last couple of year, year and a half or so, I occasionally get this feeling.

Like yesterday I was at work and I was walking up these stairs and I'm like, I'm going to die. You know, not like I was going to die that day, but like there was like this weird sense of urgency. that just for a moment shot through me like, I'm going to die. But it was not so much like an adrenaline rush as it was like a shot of clarity, maybe like a quick release of dopamine or a quick release of serotonin that was like, yeah, I'm going to die. And just for a minute, everything around me got brighter. And so it was a welcome thought even though it was a scary thought.

something to be embraced, something to be thought about. And when you bring up the idea of talking about wasted time and how that's probably some of the best times, because there can be no waste of time. It reminds me of a psychedelic trip I had one time under like a really large dose of four ACODMT. I remember taking it. And like I immediately felt it come on.

And like, I'm like, whoa, this is going to be strong. Like I just took this and it's five minutes in and I'm coming up. I'm like, oh, crap, you know. And on a side note of a site. I'm sorry? Was it the 75 MCG? Yes, that was it. That was the one.

It was like immediate. Yeah. I remember, I'm like, okay, I'm going to go. I'm going to get in a bathtub because that's a great idea. So I remember I turned on the water and it was one of the first times and one of the only times where I started hearing voices. Like I had broken through some sort of barrier. And like, I'm like, okay, I need to think of an intention. And my intention was I want to understand what's happening in the world.

And I want to understand what is on a level I've never understood before. And so all of a sudden, I'm in the bathtub and I'm curled up in the corner and the water's on. And like, I'm like, I want to understand what's happening. And then all of a sudden I heard this voice like, are you sure you want to understand? And I'm like, what? I'm scared. I'm like, what? Who said that?

and it's like, and I'm like, yeah, I'm sure. And then I just got all these flashes of like war and people dying and like all this crazy like visions. Like I'm like, holy shit. And I'm like, I don't want to understand anymore. And the voice is like, too late. You know, but it made like, it was just this like the reason I bring it up is because I realize like all these things are happening.

Everything is happening around me. And the concept of. time was just really brought out in a way in which I've never thought about before. And then you enter into this faceless voice pinging into my head like, wow. So I think the reason I'm bringing that up is the idea of time, that there can be no waste of time. And the things that you may feel, whether it's a thought loop or whether it is sitting and meditating or whether it is obsessively thinking about something that you think was silly, they're all necessary.

And it brings me to this point of whenever someone says to you, is that necessary? I think the answer should always be, yeah, it is necessary. That's kind of a crazy way to get there. But yeah. That is no crazy. It's all path leads to home. It doesn't matter what it's.

Yeah. There you go. That's well put. Thank you. Thank you. There was this part where, like, how different methods, certain methods are stupid, certain methods of this. But I think everything is happening to a particular individual at the right time, right?

What might be here at the most optimum learning experience, right? Like, for example, I don't know how to how many people I can say that the fire I started in my house. It was the most greatest event that I could think of like in this year. Like, beautiful beginning to New Year. it just rearranged my priorities. It was the most kindest event without great consequences. Like things could have been much worse. So I just add the experience of like, what could have happened without things happening, right?

Like let's say my dog was one meter away from the fire, right? Like they first get burnt. Like things like this, small, small things like this could have happened. Right. But to escape that near without having those consequences. consequences made me just have so much gratitude towards the experience, right? And from there on about like, I feel like people are, we have, it's everything is perfect. Everything is perfect at some level of, you know, a plane of existence that we cannot comprehend.

Something that's happening that is so inhumane. I know there could be a lot of, you know, examples that could say, how could you say that is okay, right? Because I do add that, but it's just when I'm completely silent, when I'm completely not interacting with the world, these are the things. It is actually perfect. It is what leads to the state of whatever. You're a ha-ha moment than anything. And one thing you told about time, I think I would have mentioned this. But in 1754, when England changed their calendars, do you know?

No. So there was, I think, in 1754, if I'm not wrong, the Chinese calendar and the English calendar were 16 days apart. Okay. So on September 14, they said, so instead of tomorrow being September 15, we're going to have October 1st. Right. And there was a huge protest, right? That give us our time back. Wow. Right. And I understand the effects of it, right? So let's say, if the calendar year is just changed for you, George, right? You live in January 24 now,

like I live in 27. Then when you're interacting with me, it's a problem, right? But if you are a monk who is sitting in a mountain who is not dependent on interactions, then it's a totally different thing, right? So the more interactions we have, the more distractions it creates, not necessarily a bad thing, but it just proves to the point that, the solitude time is of quiet importance, right? Like I used to wonder before my psychedelics, have I ever been alone? No, I have not been truly alone with myself. It's so funny to think about like, what do I always look for things to do. I always look for people to interact with, do something of these sorts, but why was I not alone? Because mostly the two, three days,

when I first moved to Canada, that was the first days that I've ever been alone. Like I always lived in my parents from until I came to Canada. So you're interacting, right? You're always interacting with beings and so on. And when I came here, I cried. I've never cried, you know, in that intensity until then. And I just went to the bed and I cried.

I'm like, I don't want to be alone. And I had no idea these are experiences that I needed to be aware of. I just cried. And then I was like, I can handle this. And then, you know, morning will be fine. There is just evening sadness, but it will go away. If I make friends, it will go away, these things. But it's the same with our eating disorders or, you know,

watching disorders or distractions which are covering up our emotions, right? So when we stop those, initially it'll be hard because all the emotions that are suppressed has to surface now. Where will it go? There is nowhere. Either it goes deep inside or it has to come out. And coming out is always in the form of like us experiencing it. once we understand we don't have to react to the experience of, you know, particular emotion,

we don't act upon it, right? We take it. But again, I feel like all these happens when we give ourselves the space, the space, solitude, non-interaction with the outside world, to truly understand what, what is time? Time exists for a conventional purpose, like, you know, for a matter of convenience to make it easier. But beyond that, is there something? Even days, nights, these don't matter if one is meditating all day, not eating. There is a term called Samana, which I read recently, that, you know, again in the

Sad Guru video where Buddha before his enlightenment, he was traveling with different teachers to, you know, get different practices. He felt it was not enough, right? So it turned to this approach of, there were a group called Samanas who would say they will never beg for food. Right. So they are fighting against their primal instincts of I need to survive. So if they are given food, it was in such a way that when people see monks, they just offer a lot of food. So it turned out to be a, you know, good thing for them to exist at that point.

But where I'm getting at is to the part that when we actually have zero interactions of those sorts with respect to I need to eat it this time or what if I stop completely eating, right? And time doesn't actually bother us the way we used to perceive time. We get a totally new different thing. And these methods that seem hard on the outside are methods that put you through complete presence because all you care about is that particular moment. that is there in that moment because you're not thinking that you know we all we all have things to do like for example i'm gonna uh go get my license plate for my other car right and it's it's always there and even if you're not conscious of it it's there in the back of the air it's consuming energy right and this this is how this energy you can talk about in physical terms how we can

stop wasting those energy even though i said we don't waste time it's like yeah redirected to much of what is actually happening here and now. I'm sorry, I was gibberish here and there, but as much as things are happening, I'm observing the words that's coming out through me. I'm like, whoa, like, why are you going all about? But it's okay, do whatever you want. Yeah, it's beautiful. I agree with so much of that idea.

I think that when you are alone, you know, I had a similar experience when I first moved to Hawaii and I had left my family and I realized I was in a place that, and it was during the holidays for me. Like it was the first holidays where I realized that I don't know anybody here. I've never been here in my life. I'm living with people I don't know. My family's all gone and there's only me. and it was it was a profound sort of loneliness but it gave way to a profound sense of being okay but but you had to go to the spot of despair like you you know if despair was a location I would say the despair is a place you go to find out who you are because you have to go there

you have to go there and you have to cry at the well of ascension you know what I mean? mean and like but once you do it it's almost like a meditation it's almost like a prayer it's almost like you've given homage and your tears have begun to fill this pond i also feel like that particular experience you know denotes to a form of surrender right yeah absolutely it would be anything a particular concept you want to surrender that i need to have someone to you know i have a particularly good time or i need to be doing this particular sort of thing during the holidays you know to get myself to be at peace or something. But yeah, you're so true. I love the part where you said, where we go find,

where we go to find despair is where we find ourselves, right? And I think that's, it goes back to one more thing that I had like, if we listen to our emotions, they're just trying to communicate to us. And all we have to do is listen and say, it could be apathetical to it, but you can just have no set of reaction to it and then see like, huh, I see. How did you bring this sense of peace in the covering of, I don't want it? It's so funny. Like, I don't want it is the only resistance that's causing the suffering. There is no actual suffering apart from, you know, someone is doing something to us.

Yeah, we can have a few options to act about that particular situations. But in essence, everything comes to, yeah, let's talk about, you know, just my life where I don't have hard things. don't have people coming and hitting at me or let's say i don't have uh people trying to kill me for speaking about women rights or so on right think that to happen in this world but so i have rather very convenient life so for me the problems are with respect to once i'm settled in bed and i have to clear out a particular dish because the food will go bad all like that's it's a small task you see and thinking about it is i don't want to do it because i have already settled in but It's not, if you start, yesterday I had this.

This was like literally I was night. It's so mind-blowing to me because it's such a simple thing. No, nothing of profound nature is happening, I would think. But it's so profound because I'm like, I get up and I go, I'm like, ha. Three days back I wouldn't have gotten up. Meditation is what makes me get up because I'm not resisting this. You know, small, more things. And I think it helps me at least go and sit more.

Dyer, I still completely cutting you off, which you were saying. with respect to this particular thing. I'm sorry about that. That is true. I think of the same thing with traffic. Like, you know, I, it's such, it's so irrelevant really. But it sucks. I hate it.

Like, I'm going to sit here. Yeah, I'm just going to sit here. Oh, it's not that big of a deal. But so many people lose their mind when you sit in traffic. But why? Especially if you have a car with air condition in a radio, you know, you got somebody there next to you, maybe a little snack.

Like, it's, what do you do? Who cares? You're just sitting in traffic. But people get so frustrated because, you know, traffic is kind of like life. Like you're in this rush to get somewhere, but you're still in the car. You can't go faster than the guy in front of you. You don't know why you're sitting in traffic. There's an accident. And that's another thing. People want to like see an accident. Like, there better be an accident when I get up here. You know, I hope there was something, you know. People are so frustrated. But yeah, it's so weird. What is that? I want to justify the time I wait. Yes. Yeah. It's true. And maybe this gets us back to the, maybe this gets us back to the, the line between surrender and suppression. You know, when you sit alone, you are surrendering to your emotions and allowing them the time that they need to communicate with you, where when you're acting out in your day and you're rushing from distraction to distraction, you're in suppressive mode where you're just, yeah, I'll get to that later. I'll get to that later. I'll get to that. to that later. And that seems to be so much of the world of mental illness today is suppression, right? Like you've suppressed your anger. You've suppressed your animosity. You've suppressed your need to express yourself for so long that it's finding a way to manifest in a way that is inappropriate to life in the community where surrender is sitting alone and being like, I have to work on this. Or you know what? I need to take time to realize why I'm

acting this way. I guess that gets us back to that fine line. It definitely does, right? Like, yeah, one of the things I think that was happening until now is, as you said, the huge amount of distractions that have been growing around us that are not just distractions per se that are basing their whole profit based on our attention towards the particular distraction, right? So now you have someone going out there doing it on purpose, And it's a very valid thing because that's lively work for them. So given that it does exist, and over the years it has increased tremendously that we really do not even begin to understand. We don't have time necessarily to ask question why am here what we are doing.

Most people I feel like we tend to say that we are here for the experience. But are we really, right? because I used to think I'm here for the experience but it was being covered up with a lot of, you know, my concepts. Right? So the finding the deadline

it's going to take time. It goes back. And the line, you know, it always keeps moving. You think you can never get it nailed it down or you can't have figured it. Like you think the method that you used to let go of, let's say, a grief towards a dead parent or a dead kid is not the same with respect to, you know, emotional abuse or stuff, right?

All these have different levels of working. But it's funny. One thing I believe is it's an individual's work. I do like therapies. Those are initial journey. But therapies are for problems that we have already defined it and made a big deal. It's when it's hindering life in a major way, right? For example, I was, let's say, mildly depressed.

That's what the DSM would, you know, quote my symptoms to be. But people like me, I feel like do not have the right set of therapists to, you know, be helped. Because, I mean, on the outside, things are not a problem. You do not have suicide tendencies. You're not, you know, not showing up for work or you're not. Things seem good on the outside. But you're real fast. What did you say the DMS?

would classify you as? Mildly depressed based on... Mildly depressed, right? So the reason I'm saying is that when on the outside, if you do not have significant reaction patterns for people to observe, you don't get the right help you deserve. So after a while, when you take out all these major things,

so for people having suicidal tendencies, that's more evident, you know, people having, like, they just can't get out of bed, right? So these are very strong. Therefore, the help is much more, at least easier to deliver at these stronger levels. But for people with milder cases where things are fine, but they are not. And then that's where the problem is. I saw a few, let's say, Cycdlic companies, some therapist working towards helping people

reach their full potential, which was nice to see because not everyone has a problem as defined by the world. Someone could think that your life is as perfect as it could get and you could be sad inside, right? And that's the funny thing about us. Everything can be traumatizing. All life situations that are given to us is like, I only see my dad and myself in the case. My dad and me are completely opposite storylines, right? He was completely deprived of financial things. So you had to fight this way to get there. So you made sure that I don't go through the same. And I saw him being this much.

I said, I don't want money. And it's a loop. And it's funny to see these things happen. It is. Especially when you look at it from a generational point of view. It seems that one of us, like he's probably correcting in a way that his parent, like we always oversteer in the direction. or overcorrect in the way that our parents did.

You know, like my dad was super, like you are going to be this type. You're going to be the greatest wrestling athlete there ever was. And you're going to be super disciplined at this. And you're always going to do this. And I'm like, I can't do it. I can't do it. And so now, well, I still try to apply a certain level of discipline to my daughter. It's not the level of discipline that my dad did.

And the reason he had so much discipline is because his parents had none. You know, so it's like, we're just. constantly steering the car until hopefully we get to a point where it's just, you know, there's not a whole lot of play in the wheel. Yeah. But it's interesting to think about. Like I,

if you could look, see, we don't have a lot. We get back this idea of time. Like, we think that in our individual lives, like we're moving in this direction. But if you could look, if you could be outside yourself and look at the lineage of your parents and then look at the lineage of where your kids might be,

then you could see the plan. You'd be like, oh, that makes total sense. Like we started over here the same way like the rain, the rain drops from a glacier flow down a mountain. So too do you as an individual go on your path. But you only get to see the snapshot of your life. You don't get to see your progeny or you don't get to see the way your parents did it. And I like to think that at some point in time in this crazy sort of death and rebirths,

maybe when we leave the body, then we'll be invited to see the big picture of where we're going, you know? I don't think it's that. Well, why not, Ranga? Because I believe, like, it's just too easy. It's not how, it doesn't set in with how this level of reality works, at least according to me, with respect to changes and with respect to energy being the only truth and you know we are a bundle of energy with receptors to a particular you know and we have these senses to see this world in a subjective way and so on and on and on but our work has to be done while we are here right I that's that's what I feel it's not done while we are not here like there is no work to do when we are not here there is no point to seeing things like Once we go and seem like, okay, let's say, you know, there is this consciousness or spirit or soul which goes from the body at the moment of that and goes and sees and then what? Nothing.

It's like, God is like, yeah, you go back again. But you know what? I'm going to wipe out the memories again. Right? It's like that's what in Buddhism, reincarnation kind of focuses on that. It's not about seeing the bigger picture, but kind of what state of consciousness you are left leaving the body. it's what you will go into the next body, right? So it's based on what when people are having,

but I'm reading this book. I'm not reading this book. I read three, four chapters, which is very nice. Art of Dying by Asson Goenka. Talks about accounts from people who are dying. Right? And which show was this? There was the show I was watching.

And yeah, the thing. with this guy and Alexander Shilgin there is a documentary called Better Living Through Chemistry right and in that

this guy was describing the death of Alexander Shulgin and he was saying I've seen a lot of people die and these are ugly deaths they saw Alexander

died, it was very peaceful and maybe it had to do a lot with his psychedelic experiences right and I tend to believe because in art of dying this is

this book by Essen Goenka were focused on people who are doing the Pasina meditation for quite some time, right? So they're able to have that state of meditation during that. So they're not reacting to that fear that is rising as of the moment, right? Through the sensations or through their emotions, through their thoughts and so on and all. And it's quite, it was nice because the day that thing caught on fire, I was, I usually have a difference at a routine in the evening. I go to take shower and so on. If I had done that, like the house would have been on fire

and I wouldn't have known. That day, for some reason, my partner, she was so interested in reading that book, she made me sit and read three chapters during which we had enough time for the fire to catch where we could notice and so on. And I was reading the art of thing

and there was something coming up, right? Because I was afraid. Like, as I was reading that, there is this fear. I intellectually know I'm going to die. I intellectually know it'll be fine. Everyone is going to die. Nothing is going to happen.

even like, let's say at some point this existence has to restart again in a different way. Like the whole earth collapses, there is no written record of history and nothing, right? And again, life can start again. I can intellectually know these things. But when I'm reading this, there's something happening. My heart is raising and so on. And then I saw, I see the fire come up. And it was like, it was a huge reminder.

And it had to all happen. And believe me or not, after that day and I couldn't help myself. but to sit and meditate because I'm afraid and I'm happy I'm afraid because without me being afraid I'm suppressing this fear deep down and I'm not afraid all the time like right now if you ask me I'm like yeah of course not I'm not afraid of it but I have to go and sit and especially when on cannabis I have a lot of fear arising yeah which is nice and as you said with respect to that depth thought you had yesterday it's quite important we need to consistently work on that

and it brings a sense of urgency in a very good day, right? It's a funny, again a paradox thing. Urgency, not to get things done, not to rush. Urgency to stop being rushing, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know again when I started this conversation, but it all revolves around that and makes me more yeah, the art of dying, right? With respect to that, it was just making me think I need to prepare for that.

Because what I have understood for so long, experientially now, I've rediscovered the same truth is when we are born, we do not know anything about any of such. We are given stories. This is what it is this guy is that, this guy, and so on and on. And 99% of things turns out to be, oh no, I thought you were a very rude person. Oh, you also have, you know, calming tendencies and so on. And none of those fits.

but there is one truth, at least I felt like I've always known, is that death is coming. I don't know how it's going to come. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know if I'm going to, you know, eat this particular food tomorrow. Nothing I know about life, but I know I'm going to die. Right? And I feel like I wasted three years sometimes. Part of the paradoxical thing, right?

I wasted because I knew death was something that was at the core of my thing, it was coming. and I wasn't doing anything to prepare for it. Right? But then I don't see it as a waste of time because it's simply how things are rolling out. I had to be in this body to think about, I had to be in this body to understand that this body is going to die.

So since I'm so attached to this idea of me and this body, I am going to die and I have to do the work. But if I couldn't have add this fear before my existence, what is death? Same as prenatal existence. right? Yeah. Right.

And death in such way, keeping that as a central truth, it's very nice. Like, all that scary feelings, but along with that scary feelings comes to this presence, as you said, maybe the dopamine, maybe the certain. Things are brighter, they are richer. They are richer.

You appreciate it more, right? You appreciate a lot of things, right? Like, everything is passing by, and you're going to buzz along with it. Yeah. All we can do, I feel like I was interested in existential psychotherapy last year. And I realized these are things. I don't know.

I've always felt like I'm not here to do this because I become so selfish about my tendencies. One thing, like my own feel of death. So I need to do work on that. So for that, all I can do is like prepare for death and where do I start? And then that's where I see. There are a lot of tools and tricks available, you know. they say meditation is one of those illusions that is designed to make you realize of other illusions. So you use some of these illusions to guide your journey, prepare for what is ultimately the truth,

at least of our subjective self. Because I know in psychedelics we feel the oneness and so on, that is all there. But let's, we are not remembering at such an intricate level, right? but at an intellectual level we still know death is that right and we can play it as a part and I was watching this video of Ricky

how do you pronounce his name Ricky Jarvis Ricky Jervais super funny right he's really nice these ideas are so I find my partner and I have we watched this video of his and like this was synced with him it's nice

because so much of his aspects go around there was a show on Netflix he made surrounding death and there was the interview where he was talking many things about death because the more we start focusing on death like very intensely not not as a joke like yeah sure i talk about the thing sit and think sit and ponder do what you need to do but death is here for you so see that it brings with it life you know that's that's the whole aspect of beautiful thing about duality that's one of the first ways that i understood how the duality were like i I understood with respect to the example of light and darkness, right?

One needs to exist for the other to exist. Would seem that death had to exist for life to be, you know, so meaningful. So, again, I've lost meaning to words like meaningful. So it is, it is, you're one with it. You're one with the experience. You could say that you're, you could say that the only, you could say that the only truth is death and that our whole lives we spend preparing to die. If you look at it from that angle, like, it just, it brings us back to the idea that, that, you know, I think part of the problem is I just,

have a different thought about it. Like, I think part of the problem is that we've taken all the dignity out of dying, you know, especially when I look at the Western cultures, like I, I see that so many people are commodified and they're sent to an old folks home where their insurance company designates a certain amount of money that they can have. And then all of a sudden, like my, my, my grandma, she became, she pretty much, she wasn't there. Like she had outlived her cognitive ability. And my dad and my grandfather said that she had already died.

in some ways. But they kept her alive and she was like a shell of a person. And, you know, I think about that on one side. And then I think about the story that Deepak Chopra tells about his father coming in to meet him at an older age and said, I think it's my time. I'm going to go and die. And that reminds me of another story. I have a friend who's a Cherokee Indian.

And his dad, he lives in Hawaii. His name's Eby, super awesome guy. I don't think he'd mind me sharing this story. And he had mentioned to me that his father had invited him to come back and see him because he was getting older. And so he flew back to see his dad. And his dad had told him, like, hey, I just wanted to see you one more time because I'm getting to the stage where it's my time. And I'm going to die soon. And Eby, you know, had a great time with his dad.

And a few weeks, like a week later, he read his father's obituary. And it was his father had went up to this point on top of a mountain where he would go to meditation. sometimes and they found him they found him up there and he was dead but he had he had died on his own terms he had said goodbye to the people he had decided it was his time to leave and then he got to leave in a way that he wanted to leave and it it just reminds me like the last you know and I'm hopeful that I can have the courage and the strength and the fortitude to go out on my own terms but you know I've often heard that the last job of a parent is to teach their children how to die you know I've seen so many people like my great grandmother died on in an old folks home on a gurney and you know there's

just no dignity in there and you become sort of a commodity to the hospital when you go out on those terms but yeah i i think that maybe that's part of preparing to die is understanding how you want to go out and understanding that you can leave a lesson in a way for those around you and you know why can't we have a party? Why can't you? I was talking to my dad and he's like, dude, I want to go on a cruise. I want to have a giant party. And then at the end, just give me the needle, man. And I want to, I want to feel no pain. I want to have a party and then send me out, you know, send me on my way. And I just think that like, why can't we embrace death that way? Why can't we have this party to celebrate the end of life and people go out on their own terms instead of like, oh, you have to go

on a dialysis machine. And we have to come and visit you in a place that makes everybody feel uncomfortable and people have to be scared of dying, you know, and that's easy for me to say because I'm not yet at a point where I'm facing death. So it's easy for me to say that, but, you know, I'm hopeful that I'll maintain that same type of vibrance when I get older. But it's, it's, I love that we, you and I end up talking about this because I think it's so relevant and I think it's something that it's not an easy subject for people to talk about, but there's so much in there to learn from. There's so much in there to talk about. It's a beautiful subject.

Mainstream, in the mainstream, it's not coming out because the more I dig into detail of art of time. There are literally so many art of dying books out there. I saw the top two that I know as one is Osha and one is Essen Gwangka, right? And all these books, many of many people are trying to add this idea. It's just not a what, it's kind of the idea that what's it going to do if we talk about. about it, right? But it is actually happening at a smaller level. It's like the secret club. You need to know where to look for and you will actually find people who are damn interested

in talking about it. And I will share this particular thing what you said about the needle. I've had this because for me, fear of death and more than that accompanies is the fear of suffering. Oh, I don't want pain. I don't want it. So instead of the needle part, I used to think If I was going to die, I wish it was in sleep, you know. Like, I just didn't know about it. But I have turned my perception about it after reading these books that you have to be very conscious of your death. It's a very important step that you take, right? Again, forget reincarnation or not.

It's just that if what we train for right now is, let's say we, you and I are interested in. devoting our life to be here now. I believe that's the only thing we can do because after that, whatever happens, there is no narration about it. So you're here now. You can do anything you want. But you're here and now, right? And it's all subjective experience.

So when we do that, I feel like personally I've got into place. I'm not there practically. Like, I'm not okay with dying right now. But I want to be conscious of it. I don't want to avoid any of the accompanying things with it. And with respect to what you said about dying in a gurney, I still think it's what we observe from the outside. What is truly essential is the state of mind of the person who's going through it.

For example, I saw this guy dead in the railway station, right, in India, right? He was dead. And, you know, when I looked at him, I was like, yeah, sure, I want to be that. I don't know. I might be I got like so I don't plan on an inkettes right and with all assumptions and it's only my partner

and if she dies before what I'm going to be doing is pretty much I want to be just by myself and I probably wherever I am and if death comes what can I do? I cannot get up and move I'm just going to and if people at that space let's say who is dying you're going to send him to hospital and that

happens something right and if they put you in some old day, Jumber, you know, you're aware, but you're not able to communicate that you don't want this and so on. It's not an undignified death. It's just, situation is happening that way, but you still have the same work to do. You're still, you as an experiencer is going to stop existing subjectively and maybe merge with one or whatever happens. Like, these are speculations but it is quite some some grounding um nature to just talking about death it it's just it is like the more i talk about it i'm focused on it right it doesn't stop me from doing things that's the funny part right and you don't want to you don't give up on life

you don't give up you you actively participate it participate with it in ways that you know how to change yourself to be more present but you just don't like I'm gonna die I'm gonna stop doing things that just doesn't happen

this we went to this meditation thing and the monk was explaining these concepts of the temporary nature of things right and there is this term called anichha in the Vipasana meditation

they talk about impermanence right and one of the fellow meditators he asked the monk like I intellectually know anitja like I understand that it's temporary but just because it's temporary I just lose interest in stuff right what do I do to change that's that's the part like initially it might be that he gave an example of

how the sun is rising and setting right you know when the sun is going to set just because it's setting you don't get angry over it you don't see say it's meaningless to see the sun you enjoy it and in fact it's because of how the wavelength is when it's rising and the wavelength is so big that you see red and orange and it's beautiful, right? Yeah. You know it's going to go, but you let it go. You also know on some level that, of course, like me thinking about it obsessively to stop it is not going to stop it. Like I can.

That doesn't happen. So to be able to be there and experience, these are a few of the things which we are born. I don't know many, any people personally were sad that. the sun is sitting. There can be people, but some people are very naturally inclined to admire things and let it go, right, when the time comes. So our life is like that. We have to appreciate, admire, be grateful to all those sorts of things. But when the time is here, we should let it go. And the more we are aware of how the body is operating fundamentally, I think that's why the examples you gave about the Cherokee Indian are, who's the other guy, is his father, right?

Deepak Chopra's father, eating the more with your body, you just know it. For example, you know, things that I think about, because when I go use the washroom and I don't have enough time at work, I have a 10 minute break and I'm like, oh, I need to poop. But maybe not. I can hold three more hours, right? So it's fine. I just need to peer in right now. And I go and I'm wondering like, whoa, I know these things and I have like specific control

like to let go of one and hold the other and these things are happening and no one taught me this i just know it and then i was taping wheat the other day and i was making like circles that went out these things it's not like i can be proud of it and it's also something that i didn't learn from others so how is this happening it's just wisdom and knowledge these are already there you just have to stay with the process and then the time is right it will surface up and you will consciously know it. But the funny thing is you will have no ownership over it. There is no like, it's my idea.

It's my way, my thing. Like, I am good at this. It's like, I have no idea. How did I learn to poop? The same way I learned how to, you know, wave circles or I learned this or that. And you'll also learn the fact that, ah, it's time for me to go. And based on

what we have done, what our work has been towards our whole life. If people are talking about if we are talking about, you know, doing things, then we are still too much on this plane of reality. So we want to see things done. And our energy is trapped in this. So when death comes like the fear of missing out is there.

But the final thing is that out of like 14 billions of existence now, you know, you and I like flickering one flame just comes and goes right. It's minute. It's like this. When we watch three hours of movie, right, let's say one of your favorite movies is every single second so nice? No, there are like let's say

at least two seconds of the movie that yeah, I wouldn't have placed it here you know, it's whatever. But you don't judge the whole movie based on that. Same way, I don't think we should judge the existence based on our subjective viewpoint. We tend to do that. We tend to think this is it. But

if you see all the things that's happening, this is like, yeah, this is two seconds of the bad screenplay. It's not my fault. Who wrote it? Brahma, come on. But it's fine. The rest of the movie is good because I was not there.

Do you think that there's a certain set of insights that can only be achieved in the moment of death? Is there a certain type of awareness that you can only experience at that moment? You can, I think, again, intellectually speaking, you can do those. If you're meditating, and I'm talking about years of meditation, very consistency, and that's pretty much becomes your life, right?

You can. But more often than not, if we do our, you know, doing multiple roles, wearing multiple masks, those things surface up in the moment of that particular experience. So, of course, there are going to be a profound thing of like, whoa, I thought actually I was afraid of that this is not as bad. could be any of those sort. Like, for example, even near-death experience, right? Near-death experience is not just, I am going to die.

It could generate a lot more things in here. For me, the whole event, right, pumped up my compassion. But the same thing I intellectually knew. But it was pointless in my life. I was just an angry guy who was screaming out here and there. Like, there was no point. But when it experientially happens and it tumbles you down. Like, that's what I feel like that experience was very necessary because

thinking back before that experience I was like yeah things were changing but there were a lot of concepts I held on too that was stopping me from my path so I had to drop it through the this particular situation manifesting as an experience and death is one of those major experiences because what we solidify and think for example I cannot think myself beyond this subjective view because I am that that is the yeah I'm true for me every day because I don't feel the pain of others. I don't feel anything of others. I wake up.

I do my things. So I am very limited to this. So for me, it will be a profound step. And for most people, it's a profound step when we are not locked in deep states of meditation or trans. Yeah, it's interesting. I, you know, one time I was out on my route and I was working. And there's a guy on my route, a really nice guy. and it was when the vaccines were coming out and COVID was big.

So it was like probably two years ago. And he'd always ask me, hey, George, did you get your vaccine? I'm like, nope. And so this went on for like six months and then a year. And so, you know, I would see him like every three days and it just kind of became a joke between us. Did you get it? I'm like, no, I'm not going to get it. Do you get it?

No. And he would always laugh. And then one day I was, he drives a purple Jeep. His name is Davo. And one day I'm in my work truck and he's pulling this way and I'm pulling this way. and I'm pulling this way. And he pulls up close to me. And I was eating chips, right?

And so I'm eating. And he pulls up next to me and he goes, hey, George, did you get your vaccine yet? And I went to say something to him. And right as I went to talk, I inhaled this chip that got caught in my throat. So I couldn't talk. I started choking. I was like, oh, ah, ah.

And he thought I was joking because I didn't get the vaccine. He's like, did you get the vaccine? I started doing this. And he's like, ah, ha, ha. But like, I was really choking. Like, I couldn't breathe. Yeah. And then like, I kind of.

slump down in my truck and he jumped out of his jeep came over grabbed me and like right as he was getting ready to do the heimlich maneuver like i coughed up that chip but in that moment like i i thought this is how i'm going to die i'm going to die choking on a chip in my work truck and it was like this crazy moment and like i thought it was just this just this flicker of like this is how it is I'm going to die. And for a moment, I believed it. I'm going to die choking on a chip in my truck. It was so surreal because it was funny,

but I fuck, it was gasping for breath thinking I was going to die. So after that point, and then I drove off like nothing. Okay, I didn't die and I just kept off working, you know? But it was so strange to me. And we started talking about death. And that's why part of that question had come to my mind.

Like, do you think there's this profound things that happens on your deathbed. And for me, the answer is like, no, just choking on a chip. That could be it. It's crazy, right? Like, they can approach you. There are different forms of death rate. So dying in a car accident rate, I take my car out, I slid. Boom. Nothing. No, no point. No time for you to self-reflect and so on. No point to understand what's happening. So, yeah, I don't know in that cases there would be any profounding instead like for example things like chip our first thing would be survival fear of death rising the first difference mechanism that's like i need to do something to get this chip out so you don't have the space to create profound

insights at that point right so we need to be very calm to add that and for that to happen we need to have what we call as a natural death that shouldn't be very driven by What is natural? Like, let's say if I keep smoking every day if I have lung cancer and if I accept that I have lung cancer, that can be a natural death. So I'm trying to differentiate what natural death in this case versus, you know, dying in an instant like by bullet to my forehead. So in that case, once I'm accepted and I create this space in my head, I think magic can happen at that point. Yeah, but it again, this does involve. a lot of preparation for death, like to even keep on pondering and to, yeah, know what's coming.

I just go to YouTube. There are, I follow instantly, sorry, interesting groups on Facebook that post video about how a monk died consciously. It's a four-minute video. Just a group of monks around it, sitting. This monk is just, there is nothing. You can't see the funny thing about those things and funny thing about a person meditating, right?

it's boring to the viewers because nothing is happening. So you can't literally get anything out of it. But for me, watching those videos makes me more courageous or more disciplined towards my practice because ultimately I realize intellectually, I cannot do that final part. Let go of this body,

which is intellect is part of the body. So in order to do that, I need to have practice beyond intellectual understanding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating. I have time to work on myself. Man, wrong. I love it, man. We're, we almost did three hours right here. It's such a fun conversation. I don't, I feel real thankful for it, man. I, um, I could probably talk to you for you for another hour and a half if I didn't have some things I got to handle right now. But, uh, what, so before we go, what, is there anything you got coming up and where can people find you? And what are you excited about? You can find me on LinkedIn. But as I said, I've just become too selfish, caught up in this body to work on my things first.

So I do not have anything that I don't believe at this point that at least given my way things have happened, I don't personally believe we can help other people unless there is this, you know. So I see, it could change. six months later I could have something up and going so I could write a book but given the state of mind right now all I can tell you is it just like to go and sit and meditate and then have these conversations you know with you with a couple of friends and there was another guy Darian who invited me to his podcast but we were talking about cultural issues right what barriers are there and I got his contact through Randall who released his book triumph over trauma on 23rd.

So those things I want to do. Like I want to share my story. I want to share this thing. Like even if there is one person who thinks I just needed to hear this to give myself more time before I form judgments about how depressed I am. Right. Because that what suffering we are going through, it's the key to our liberation. Right.

Instead of classifying it and pushing it down or trying to get it fixed with some temporary methods, we can go deeper into it. So the conversation leads us both to do a work in our lives and share this out there. You never know what happens. But that's it from my side. Yeah. That's all I got too. And I'm real thankful.

It's always a blessing. And I feel like I walk away with a lot of interesting things to think about. And sometimes I feel like I learn more about myself talking to you. So thank you for that. He said, there is nothing more happening in this world than like the whole world is a mirror for us to see ourselves. Yeah. That's so true. It's so true.

And we're back to Christa Marty where you're projecting. And if you can embrace that, and maybe it's a selfish thing to do. But if you can embrace that, then everybody you meet becomes a teacher to help you understand the world that you see, that you live in. It becomes pretty beautiful. This goes to the drama that's code When you know how to listen Everybody is the guru That's so true man

It's so true Well that's what we got for today Ladies and gentlemen Thank you so much for hanging out Oh you know what before we go Ranga Let's you got a few more seconds I want to go through some of these Some of what everybody said right here

Let's go through Yeah Let's see Okay Here's the first one This one comes from our friend Stacey Ford Ice Who's hanging out in Valley Center probably

She says she's out doing some chores hanging out with She's got a bunch of e-moos this girl And she's always meditating while picking up What a great place to meditate Right? Like being around some animals or What kind of

What kind of meditation would you give to somebody Who is lucky enough to be out on a farm And has a beautiful family What would you have to say to her, Ranga? Right. There is nothing. This comment is self-satisfying Like nothing more else to do

If you're there while picking poop, that's all. I have the hesitation to go pick up poop in my backyard with these three dogs. And like, you know, you clean it three days later. It's like minefield. So, the hesitation is there. But once I go and I see that it's not, it's an effortless activity. And I'm not even doing it. I just have to be there.

And let's say if it's summer and the poop gets more stinky, more opportunity to stay equanimous. If you like one of the things about meditation is you stay who you are, without being affected by the thing, right? So when we do all these manageable, uncomfortable things, right, where your state of mind is still with you, right? You do a thing, and there is no classification. Everything can be meditation. So what can I say?

That's it. That's enough. All right. Let's see what Benjamin has for us here. Attaching thoughts to sounds, music seems to be a strong tether to anchor ideas. Yeah, I like this one. I had some, it's pretty good, right? Like you had spoken about previously how you've been using music sometimes to,

in your meditations to think about things, but you can use, you know, music or sounds or vocals or drums, especially just to anchor different emotions and to carry them with you when you feel anxiety or something like that. 100%. Like what songs I listen to on psychedelic trips when I listen to them, the thing is that the beauty about this that I have discovered in the last month, month or so is that the song don't necessarily put you into the state of mind that you wear

while but it reminds you of that that it reminds you to do a practice that gets you there right so it's not like you listen to the song and you're like yeah and there there'll be a lot of barriers i still think it doesn't happen easily but just getting that wake up call from a song which is you're playing that is that is beautiful like to add that ad that and anchor point to remind yourself. Okay. I know the state of awareness I was that. So, yeah.

And sometimes it's when you've done that enough, it's weird. It's almost like the world's calling to you because you can be in a state of anxiety or starting to get frustrated. And then that song comes on and boom, you're like, oh, man, it's the world telling me. I should relax right now, you know? Yeah.

It's funny to think about how that works. What else does he got for us here? mechanistically, wait, am I saying that right? Yeah, mechanistically trauma seems to be about completing broken loops. Those loops are the collection of synaptic firings. It would seem intent plays a role, but there is also the mechanism of things.

I think that this is about the idea of... It's about what I said about everything, so everyone's traumatized. It's true. Again, this is, when he says about synaptic, firing side. We go to that baser level, right, fundamental level. You're not talking at a collection of the neurons. We're trying to go at the individual level where there are no emotions. There is just on and off mechanism, once and zeros, right? Firing or not firing. And in that sense,

yeah, it's just that I still don't understand what he meant to say by, it would seem intent plays a role, but there is also the mechanism of things. No one is intently, I believe, is trying to traumatize other people it's I don't know that's what I get yeah maybe he's talking about the the idea of the iris or your your pupils being dilated so much

and then so you're just seeing like the firing in there and so the intention might not be there like that was earlier on in the in the conversation yeah and then let's see and then this one is a good one day

this is just typical Benjamin C. George right here and I think it sums it up nicely and thank you Ben and thank you Stacey and thank you for everybody that took a few moments to be with us today embrace the journey for the journey is the reward. I think that's a great

place to leave it right there. Yes. All right ladies and gentlemen thanks so much for hanging out with us. I had a phenomenal time and we'll be back again soon. Aloha. Thank you.