TrueLife - Redefining Tourism: Global Systems, Culture & the Future of Travel

Episode Date: August 1, 2020

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Transcript:Speaker 1 (0s): I'm here. Speaker 2 (21s): We were discussing an article about empathy and its impact on the environment. Speaker 1 (26s): You know, that article was something I, I came across just in trying kind of to do what you do, kind of trying to find like how can we make connections and help people understand, like, people we talk about compassion and empathy, sympathy all in the same kind of realm. And we really think about it from a humanistic kind of standpoint. All are kind of different. They're not necessarily the same, even though they get clumped together. And so I was trying to find something that just to share, you know, that we could say, okay, actually all of these things are vital or important in nature as well. Right? And so whether it's, it's, we're thinking about land or the ocean or wildlife, it doesn't really matter when we, human behavior is really a component that's really impactful on our surroundings. And so that article is actually pretty intense. I thought when he's talking about vultures, which is really interesting, cause we all think it's just being these demonic, evil animals with like, why should we protect Folgers or take care of them? Well, they're a part of a larger ecosystem, but you know, it's that mental, that process that we have from young age that we see these crazy, really scary animals on the side of the road, eating the roadkill and they're doing their part. But we think it's really horrible that that article is, you know, he talks about too, at the end of it, logging in and different things that humans think we're doing the right thing to S to save our planet or planting trees, because we think that that's going to help the carbon footprint, which it is. But if we're planting trees that we're just going to cut down in three years for timber, that kind of defeats the purpose. Right? So that's why I thought that article would be at least good for us to base a conversation on a little bit. Speaker 2 (2m 12s): I thought the article was fascinating and I really liked how the author of the article gave the distinctions and empathy. It made me realize the impact that empathy has on our behavior about our surroundings and the people we love and our relationships. Speaker 1 (2m 32s): Yeah, yeah, it does. And that is, I mean, we can put ourselves, we can say, Oh, I can put myself in that person's shoes. I've never experienced whatever they're going through right now at this point in time. Right. And there's a difference where you have a sense of empathy. When you can say, I have the same feelings, I have similar feelings, I've had this, I can understand where they're coming from and what they're doing, the difference between. And I'll go to compassion real quick is that compassion is like, you want to actively remove that suffering from that person. Right. And that's what you start looking for when we think about empathy and it's not really an action. So to speak, it's more of, we, we feel this inside of us. And then how can we take that into a different realm where we're going to say, okay, if this is how I feel, and it's not happening to me, what is it doing to the people that's affected? Whether it's one person, whether it's a whole society, whether in our, in my line of work, it's the world around me and what role do I play in that? How can I make a difference? Or how can I make a change being one person? Does it really matter? Every time I go to the beach, I pick up rubbish. Maybe when people see me doing it and start acting the same way. I don't know. But when you talk about altruism, then it's kind of like, okay, so how, how do we get people to actually like internalize that we don't, that's a paradigm shift that's gotta be made in society. I think, I don't know that people are that conscious. Unfortunately, Speaker 3 (4m 13s): What are some effective tools we can use to change behavior about conservation? Speaker 1 (4m 17s): I think modeling behavior. I mean, when you go out and you're around people being mindful of your actions and what you're doing and knowing that people are always watching what you're doing. I mean, we live in a small world now with technology. I don't know if you saw our friends in the mainland, one of those, but the kids that took a trampoline up to stairway heaven, right? They might, they muscled this thing up there and they're getting a bunch of flack for it. Like, are they born and raised on why? Like, why would you do that? Well, because it's fun. And they wanted the, you know, Instagram theater, whatever they wanted, but the people who are standing by, well, they're not local that, well, they're not necessarily thinking back to maybe things they would have done as they were growing up to have fun and to get that higher, to get their friends. And they didn't have people watching, they didn't have cameras filming, they didn't have pictures being taken. And so I think that in this day and age, it's, it's a blessing. I think that technology is actually a really good thing. It can be used for good it's unfortunately used for not good a lot of times. But another component of it is that what's happening to us here in Hawaii may not look exactly the same in the continental U S or in South Africa or in the Southern American continent or in Asia. But there are still, when we talk about like global climate change, when we're talking about environmental things, much of what we do here actually could be impacting across the CDs and 180 degrees across the world from us. And so when we can kind of think a little bit bigger like that than it, and we think, okay, I'm just this small meek little person it's actually one step. And we can, we can globalize it from a small local because of technology. Right? So anyways, I think I derailed a little bit from what you're saying, but, but I think modeling is really important. And I think that it being mindful too. I mean, a lot of people in the public lately have been talking about where your dollars go is, what's going to make decisions in the world, right? So being very mindful of the companies that we purchase things from, or that we support by our day to day shopping. We're a little stuck here in Hawaii. I'm hoping as many people are that our food security's gonna get better and we're not having to import 90% of our food. But when we go to Malama market or food land and we're spending, you know, $10 on a gallon of milk, and then we realized, wait, what do we need here? Well, grain is ridiculously expensive to feed cattle. And how can that go into the broader scheme of things when we're thinking? I mean, back to being like empathetic and thinking about conservation, it's not just about conservation. I think through like mindful acts, we'll get conservation it's there. We actively go and do things to say, this is conservation, but it's also how we act in our data. This really applies, that would feed into it. So I think that's one part it's, it's thinking again, when you go to the market, like where did this food come ...

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. We were discussing an article about empathy and its impact on the environment. You know, that article was something I came across just in trying kind of to do what you do, kind of trying to find that. like how can we make connections and help people understand like we talk about compassion and empathy sympathy all in the same kind of realm and we really think about it from a humanistic kind of standpoint all are kind of different they're not necessarily the same even that they get clumped together

and so I was trying to find something that just to share you know that we could say okay actually all of these things are vital or important in nature as well, right? And so whether it's, we're thinking about land or the ocean or wildlife, it doesn't really matter. When we, human behavior is really a component that's really impactful on our surroundings. And so that article is actually pretty intense, I thought. He's talking about vultures, which is really interesting because we all think about just being these demonic evil animals. Why should we protect vultures or take care of them?

Well, they're a part of a larger ecosystem. But, you know, it's that mental fat process that we have from young age that we see these crazy, really scary animals on the side of the road eating the roadkill. And they're doing their part, but we think it's really horrible. That article is, you know, he talks about two at the end of it, logging and different things that humans think we're doing the right thing to save our planet. We're planning trees because we think that that's going to help the carbon footprint, which it is, but if we're planning trees that we're just going to cut down in three years for timber, that kind of defeats the purpose, right? So that's why I thought that article would be at least good for us to base a conversation on a little bit.

I thought the article was fascinating, and I really liked how the author of the article gave the distinctions in empathy. It made me realize the impact that empathy has on our behavior about our surroundings and the people we love and our relationships. Yeah, yeah, it does. And that is, I mean, we can put ourselves, we can say, oh, I can put myself in that person's shoes. I've never experienced whatever they're going through right now at this point in time, right? And there's a difference where you have a sense of empathy when you can say, I have the same feelings, I have similar feelings, I've had this, I can understand where they're coming from and what they're doing. The difference between that, and I'll go to compassion real quick, is that compassion is like you want to actively remove that suffering from that person, right? And that's what you start looking for.

When we think about empathy and it's not really an action, so to speak, it's more of we feel this inside of us. And then how can we take that into a different realm where we're going to say, okay, if this is how I feel and it's not happening to me, what is it doing to the people that's affected? Whether it's one person, whether it's a whole society, whether in my line of work, it's the world around me. And what role do I play in that? How can I make a difference or how can I make a change being one person? Does it really matter? Every time I go to the beach, I pick up rubbish. Maybe will people see me doing it and start acting the same way?

I don't know. But when you talk about altruism, then it's kind of like, okay, so how do we get people to actually like internalize that? That's a paradigm shift that's got to be made in society, I think. I don't know that people are that conscious, unfortunately. What are some effective tools we can use to change behavior about conservation? I think modeling behavior, I mean, when you go out and you're around people, being mindful of your actions and what you're doing, and knowing that people are always watching what you're doing.

I mean, we live in a small world now with technology. I'll know if you saw, our friends in the mainland won't know this, but the kids that took a trampoline up to stairway heaven, right? they muscle this thing up there and they're getting a bunch of flack for it. Like are they born and raised in Hawaii? Like, why would you do that? Well, because it's fun and they wanted the you know, Instagram feed or whatever they wanted.

But the people who are saying they're going, well, they're not local. Well, they're not necessarily thinking back to maybe things they would have done as they were growing up to have fun and to get that higher to get their friends. And they didn't have people watching. They didn't have cameras filming. They didn't have pictures being taken. And

So I think that in this day and age, it's a blessing. I think that technology is actually a really good thing. It can be used for good. It's unfortunately used for not good a lot of the times. But another component of it is that what's happening to us here in Hawaii may not look exactly the same in the continental U.S. or in South Africa or in the Southern American continent or in Asia. But there are still, when we talk about global climate change and we're talking about

environmental things, much of what we do here actually could be impacting across the seas and 180 degrees across the world from us. And so when we can kind of think a little bit bigger like that than it, and we think, okay, I'm just this small, meek little person, it's actually one step and we can, we can globalize it from a small local community because of technology, right? So anyways, I think I derailed a little bit from what you're saying, but I think modeling is really important. And I think that being mindful, too, I mean, a lot of people in the public lately have been talking about where your dollars go is what's going to make decisions in the world, right? So being very mindful of the companies that we purchase things from or that we support by our day-to-day shopping. We're a little stuck here in Hawaii.

I'm hoping, as many people are, that our food security is getting better. We're not having to import 90% of our food. But when we go to Malama market or foodland and we're spending, you know, $10 on a gallon of milk, and then we realize, wait, what do we need here? Well, grain is ridiculously expensive to feed cattle. And how can that go into the broader scheme of things when we're thinking, I mean, back to being, like, empathetic and thinking about conservation. It's not just about conservation.

I think through, like, mindful acts, we'll get conservation. It's there. We actively go and do things to say this as conservation. but it's also how we act in our daily lives, the daily lives that feed into it. So I think that's one part. It's thinking, again, when you go to the market, like, where did this food come from?

What am I buying it? You know, was it grown here, or was it slave labor? Like, what kind of fields was it grown in? It's so big. The conundrum is so large, right? It seems so much bigger than us. But I think that that's a big hit,

is where our dollars is a big part of change. Could you speak a little bit about where you work and what it is that you do? I work for the, it's called the Conservation Council for Hawaii. This year is the 70th year. I'm actually new to the position as of February, but it doesn't, it's in alignment with all of the work I've done as a volunteer and as, and professionally. Our focus really is, or has been rich in science-based kind of data and research. It was founded in 1948.

by some scientists who were at a conference in Australia, and they were like, nobody's doing environmental protection in Hawaii, and we need to go home and do this. And so it's a lot of, you know, it started with a lot of legislative actions. It started with really rallying others who were like-minded, saying, hey, we need to preserve this beautiful island state. And there's been a lot of desecration that's already been done.

How can we undo that or what can we do to combat some of that? And then it's also public outreach. And so we team up with local authors and artists to write books and do children's publications that are really mindful right now. We have something called Manu, the boy who loved books, and it's about the O-O bird, which is an extinct forest bird in the Big Island. So we're trying to do things that are going to reach the youngest child and the oldest elder, or kapuna that we call them here in Hawaii. And so if we have something that speaks to all of them, maybe we'll be able to make a change. Or maybe we'll at least get supported as one of the legislator fighting for, you know, different land use issues and shark bills protecting the sarks. That was a huge thing this year.

We look at things like the Galapagos Islands being inundated by Chinese ships right now. Well, they're a protected area. And they're sitting on what we would call the edge and probably reaping the benefits of having a sanctuary where you have fish stock that is just amazing. We have the same thing with Papa Hanamakoa. So a lot of what we do is protecting the environment, protecting conservation resources, but the other component that is really my focus and my shift is the cultural component. And so we look at Western science, which is then kind of the forefront of what CCH does. It's the basis of everything we do.

And we're in a place in a time where the board and the focus really needs to include cultural significance, the cultural landscape, and the host indigenous. cultures and that's something that is not just tangible here in Hawaii, but it's tangible around the world where you have places that Western, westernization came in, colonization took over, and were they empathetic to the people that were here in the land or listening? Absolutely not, right? And so we lost languages, and I'm not just talking about Hawaii, I'm talking about indigenous cultures around the world. Entire cultures have been lost, and so what can we do to show, how can we combine Western science with that cultural knowledge,

historical knowledge and hopefully have a better impact or a positive impact on our not our native lands on our watersheds on our marine ecosystems you see behind me it's a little murky this morning I'm out at point-of-point um see mount kaala in the background um out to kaena point there you go mainland friends in the air scenery for the morning um and they sit right right now outside the harbor right the haliva harbor is right behind me and We'll go out there and catch fish and it's like, okay, do I really want to be eating the fish right here? Do I want to go down the most of a moak? Yeah, only because I know the runoff that's come from the mountains up the hill.

So I'm going all over the place. But the mindfulness part of it is really my work that I do is trying to kind of pose as different thoughts for people to stop and think about. It's invoking, engaging thoughts for people to really, when I'm driving to work every morning and I'm seeing the beauty of this. And then I heard that they want to go terrace that mountain back there and put gondolas in for mountain bike and riding. Like, what can I say and do about that as a person rather than complain? I can pay attention to the changes around me. So, anyways, that's a little bit of way I do. You know, Hawaii has such a unique, beautiful culture.

And one thing I really love about it is that it has this ability to use mythology in order to teach the community about their connection to the past. Can you talk a little bit about how you use that in the community and if it's effective? I agree. I agree that mythology, I mean, you know, here in Hawaii we didn't have written language. It was all through moolalal and story. And so I think in that you, it's great, but it's also you have a lot of mythology that comes into play. And I think that it's important because it connects us to some of the true thoughts of our ancestors as a native one. We do really believe that, you know, we have several different gods or entities that are all at play in our day-to-day life and our environment and the state.

And I think that sometimes mythology and true cultural knowledge get mixed up. And I think that that's been a little bit of an issue in really getting to the root of, what was true, what's a myth, right? And how much of those mythologies are based on real experiences. And you know, you have like the stories of Maui who, you know, pulled lasso the sun and he pulled the Hawaiian islands together. And then you have our little Ala'uola who's like a little Hawaiian moorhen. He's endangered, he's a little waterbird.

And Maui supposedly, like we have the Hawaiian coat, has a white nose. Well, the Moorhen has a red nose and Maui supposedly wanted to learn fire and the Moorhen knew how to make fire And so but he wouldn't teach Maui and so now he got really upset a short inversion guys Now I got super upset and so he finally hid behind a bush and he trapped the a laelah and he marked him with a stick of fire and that's why his nose is bad Okay, so it's it's their fun stories how realistic are they? I don't know but we use them in education when we're sitting around wetlands, right, where we have our stills, we have birds that are native and endangered, and we're trying to educate youth or adults, it doesn't matter, you use those stories because they're engaging, lively, and people like them. And then you can add onto it a component

of the reality is, what are we doing in this area for these wetlands? Like, you can see construction and new housing development going in over here. Well, that's within 100 feet of this beautiful water or the wetland, or great example is Kailua Kauvin, Nui Marsh. They've done, it was in great disrepair. It was the waters were polluted. They've done a great job over the past 20 years of cleaning it up and now putting up some educational signage and doing some volunteer work and bringing the community, local community out there and showing them, look, we had 10 birds to begin with and now we've got 100 that

are nesting or in things like that. So it's really valuable, I think. The myths are valuable as an educational tool and to engage and get people in. And then you need to follow it up with further education. I think that's a good segue into, are there some misconceptions about what we're doing as individuals or what we can do as individuals to help impact the environment? Well, I think, you know, I think a lot of us, I think a lot of people do think that they're doing something. People drive, you know, electric vehicles and people are using reusable bags. When you think about our pandemic and we're like in such a good place where we're getting away from like single use disposable things and now we have masks and gloves and all this kind of stuff washing up on our shores.

It's a little nuts to think about. But I think that first and foremost that wherever you are, it doesn't matter if you're in the middle of an urban city and in the middle of the desert and the middle of the forest is really taking a moment. People talk about meditation a lot. It doesn't mean you have to sit there and oh, but you can meditate on what's right in front of you. And if you take a second to really appreciate, breathe in the air that you're breathing, and feel connected to the space you're in, whether it's home or a foreign place or just for me, Honolulu, taking a second to appreciate where I'm at and what it's gone through, what the space has gone through, and is it thriving or is it not?

and what is it that I could do to allow it to thrive? You know, one thing for us in downtown Honolulu, there's all these, there's the bike, bickie share, there's like bike riding sharing. We just recently had in May, the Manooku Festival, Monocu's a little white turn. He, they love urban development areas. And I would go down there, you know, we're in a pandemic.

We're not supposed to be around people. There was nobody in downtown Honolulu. So I went down and I sat next to our state capital, where there's several nests, and just relished in the fact that these white fairy turns are everywhere. They're nesting, and they were thriving in the absence of human. And then I go out on the beach, and I could say, there are monks hills coming up on our beaches. Like, you know, they show up here and there. They're taking their space back. And so I think when you take a minute in your day to really acknowledge what's around you, and as you notice shifts and changes, think about what

is it that I can do? You know, my brother lives in Encinitas and they had, we had just been visiting, so last summer, I forget, but literally the day we got on the plane, part of the cliff fell down. And people were like, oh my gosh, the cliff fell down. It's so dangerous. We're thinking, we'll stop and think a minute about the natural setting that's there and all of the weight that's been put upon.

Nature didn't ask for homes to be built on top of that. And it may not sound sympathetic or compassionate towards the people that live there that, you know, of course we all want to live oceanfront. It's a beautiful place to be. It's very relaxing. But what could I do now moving forward? Well, I could say, yeah, I want the ocean property, but it's sitting on a bluff. And if I do this, what is it going to do to the ecosystem below me? So it's really, I mean, that's a kind of extreme thought.

But when you're walking in, you know, Mililani, what can you see in Mililani? You mean, you walk out in the trees often. It's beautiful to see Volilani back in the 80s has really developed. It used to not be so developed. But you appreciate the trees and that fresh air that the trees are providing you, right? So when you take that one step further, you're like, oh, this is wonderful, beautiful air, and breathing, and then honoring the nature around you that's providing you with that fresh air. For the last few years, I've been obsessed with language.

And I think that our language holds the key to changing our environment. I think that not only the language we use in our daily relationships, but the inner language we use to have our inner dialogue can fundamentally change the way we see the community. It can fundamentally change the way we see ourselves and have a fundamental impact on conserving the environment. Yeah, I mean, the mind is a powerful thing. You know, we've seen cases of we can, people. can heal themselves from terrible diseases just through mindsets.

And I think that definitely when we see a shift in what we're thinking and where our mind goes, I mean, it's so easy this day and age to go have something happen and be a challenge and just go negative. And then what does that end us? I mean, we end up with stress, people end up with heart attacks, we end up taking it out on our surroundings. And so I think that that single process of changing, the way that you think and changing the way that you allow, which way you allow your mind to go,

it's not easy, especially when you're inundated with day-to-day stresses of raising a family or work or all of the different things. And then you think, you know, on a broader scale of where our world is at the moment. For me, I can say that throughout this entire pandemic, like a situation where yes, it's scary and yes, it's detrimental on so many levels. When I walk outside, I can choose, or even when I wake up in the morning, I can choose to be worried and scared about it, or I can choose to continue on and to try to make my, whatever I'm doing in that day have a better impact for whoever that's going to come into contact with it.

If, you know, as parents and adults, if we are worried. and we're filling our day with negativity, then our children see that. And how do we expect that paradigm shift to occur in the world if we can't just do it in another self? So I think that thinking, that mindset and a positive mindset really is important. And I think that it's slow.

As humans, we like to have instant gratification, but I think that if we're patient with ourselves and one another, and know that we're all trying to make this push for a greater cause and for a better place to live, I think we'll be fine. So, yeah, I think it's very powerful to change our mindset and support. Earlier in the conversation, we had touched upon the subject of supply chains. Can you talk a little bit about the negative impact some of the supply chains are having?

Absolutely. I mean, like I hit on earlier, we all know. 90% of our food, for example, is important, right? And we have all these people who are in hotel industry who are laid off right now, who feed the tourism, like service-based tourism, right? So they're housekeepers, their facilities, maintenance, people out of jobs because the tourism is essentially dead in Hawaii. And there's been a lot of conversations and articles written about,

hey, let's take this pause in life and let's break the way that we do things. And that is the supply chain is one of those things. And we'll just talk about food real quick, where we have this kind of really cool movement going on that people are like, yep, we need to do something about our food. We could take, and it takes training, it takes time, but we could essentially take some of that labor, that workforce is out of work right now, and retrain them in the food industry where we have farms. And if we are, the local people are working the local farms and feeding our own people, where's the sense in pride? Like, you get that

pride, right? You're thinking, you're connecting to this very thing that's nurturing your body so that you can continue every day. You're also being given a sense of purpose in that you're going to work every day. I mean, when we don't get to go to work every day, a lot of times people lose sense of purpose. You not only have a sense of purpose, but you have a sense of pride in your community,

you have a sense of pride across your state, you have a sense of pride, will believe, because your hands are the ones that are providing the food, and you start thinking more of, wow, if I'm going to treat my lands that poorly, I'm going to throw whatever, I don't care. Rubbish goes out the window. It doesn't matter. When you start actually working and you're a part of that and your people can't, the state can't eat unless you're taking care of that, that's going to be a mind shift right there. People start thinking totally different. The unfortunate part of that is the economic side where we are so here and as, sorry, I'm talking really, really locally here where we're so reliant upon the tourism dollar, right?

that it will take a lot of action on behalf of our legislatures and our politicians to stop for a minute and allow for that. It'll be phases. It's not going to happen overnight. But if we're able to feed all of these people, our residents first, educate our residents first, what better place do we have for people to come and visit them? You know, people come to Hawaii and they go, oh, they never left Waikiki. I'm like, hello, that's, you know, great, but it's not Hawaii. Sorry. And people save up their entire lives to come to Hawaii for that one week and never leave the concrete jungle. So if residents and locals, if we are really pushed and we do, we take, I guess we heed the call to be able to feed just talking about food now. And there's other things. I mean, could we be making our own toilet paper so we don't have toilet paper shortages? Maybe. Could we make our own yeast? I mean, the first few weeks of the pandemic, you couldn't buy yeast anywhere on at least Oahu because everybody was baking at home. But if we really stopped in thought and thought and we put some effort into that, I think that it helps. Your actions help. Your change your mindset as well. And I think that there's great pride. And I think that everybody will be able to at the end of their day feel a lot better about what they've put in.

to their environment around them. Meaning community, meaning... And when I say environment, I don't just say, you know, environment is like the land and the ocean and the air. It's community. It's all ages. It's everybody and what they enjoy doing

and their livelihoods. So it's broader than just one thing. But I think that, yes, the supply chain is... And the big companies won't like to hear that. They've made a fortune off of tourism in Hawaii. So this point to me is incredibly profound and it underscores why people like yourself are in the positions that are in. It seems to me that you're advocating for fundamentally changing the way we see tourism. This reinvention of tourism could have profound effects not only for Hawaii but for the rest of the world.

To change the way we, to change the reasons we go on. on vacation, instead of going to just sit on a beach, maybe we go to understand about how to live a better life and have better communities. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, Moana, but I think your idea of reinventing tourism is not only original, but it's going to have lasting effects with every single person that listens to this interview. And I'm, I got to tell you, I'm proud to know you. It's a beautiful idea.

Can you tell us a little bit more? Yeah, I mean, it's, I think it's great. Right. You know, we have people come. They're like, oh, we go fishing. We go and visit the sharks who are the sleeping cages. But like, do we really do that? That's not something we really did before. Like, yeah, we go fishing for food, for sustainability, like to feed ourselves. But we didn't do it for like a fun activity. It was more about sustaining lives, right? I think that I'm going to divert like a little bit. I had visited Vanuatu last November. beautiful, amazing country, people, island nation.

And it was a sustainable tourism conference that I was at. And I didn't win any friends in the room when I said that I think that you should, people that powers a bee, if you really want to do it right, you're going into a really clean, pristine place that's not overrun by tourism yet. You go to the local village and you ask them, how many people can you serve in a week? How many people can you host? You can take care of them, you can feed them, you can clean after them. And if the chief says 50, then that's all that's allowed in. Because they have to, first and foremost, feed their village.

Second, you want to make them, you want them to be, basically they're trying to be viable in the world economy, right? And so you bring tourists in and you show them what it's truly like to live in a place, in an island state, island nation, a place that is, I don't want to say third world, but third world doesn't have a lot of, a lot of luxuries, but not as many as we do here in the Western states. But when you think about that, if you in Hawaii, I came back and I was telling all my friends, I'm like, this is an epiphany I had. Like, what if we just stripped us all back to a blank canvas and said all of the, like, activities that tourists do for fun, like, let's go out to Kuala Lowe Ranch and get on an ATB

and go check out the movie sites, right? Was that true Hawaii? No. That is what made Hawaii famous. Hollywood made Hawaii famous. You saw the women in the lays when you got off the airplane in the 40s and 50s. Like that is what brought people here. If we were able to have a true working, I guess a true working society that was really feeding into our local economy and our local food chain and our sustainability.

And then we brought tourists in and said, hey, welcome, come visit us. we want you to be here, we want you to also be a part of your stay here. What would people say? Would they still come and visit? Or do they want to just come and lay on the beach chair in Waikiki Beach or in Wailea on Maui or at Manalani and the Big Island? You know, and everybody needs a vacation. I'm not saying that. But it's like how do you get people to, how do you get it to resonate with them? And maybe one example is we have a fish pond over here. next to a restaurant, right?

It's the Locoea Fishpon in Haliva, and Jamieson was the restaurant, was there forever, now it's the beach house. And Locoia approached the owner of the beach house, I won't name names, and said, hey, why don't you buy our fish?

You know, what if we had, it's not, the capacity is not always going to be there. You're not always going to get fish. But when we do have it, why don't you serve it up on your plates with a little bit of an education on the menu about, hey, you can look out here in this fish pond right, 10 steps outside is used where you got that fish from versus 300 miles

offshore where you got the Ahi. And it's so fresh and it's so sustainable. And by the way, you just supported the local economy, the people who are living in this area. Right. And so that is one way to connect visitors to our islands. But that's a huge, again, shift. And we've gotten, we're so used to like I want cucumbers on my salad today versus I want what's seasonal in my salad today. Right? Like that's another thought process, which is a whole other shift, which also goes back to that mental, the mindset. We should all probably be eating seasonal because it's better for us anyway. What are some differences and some similarities? Cultures still very rich there. The moms go out and they have, you know, harvest whatever the produce is and you go down to the markets are open

24 hours so you can go in and pick up whatever you want. The kids. the babies are right there in the middle of the market with mom, you know, whether they're infants and nursing or toddlers and toddling around, they're helping to strip as soon as they can, they're helping strip the outside pieces of the cabbage or whatever to make it pretty for the tourists. They do have a tourism industry on their main islands, but the sense of culture is rich. It's everywhere you go. We were very fortunate to be very impromptuely a part of, or witness it, a welcoming ceremony for the president. in Ivonawatu, we were all on the same plane without knowing to one of the smaller islands.