TrueLife - Renee Rosenmann - The Most Unlikely Face of Addiction

Episode Date: April 29, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Graduating from college as an Addiction Counselor enables me to be supportive and compassionate with those who have struggled and are still struggling. I am always here for you.When I was unable to perform a miracle to remove the illness of schizophrenia from my younger son, I did a total dive off life's radar and for 15 years became a daily user of illicit drugs to combat my descent into hideous depression.I conquered that state of mind and consider myself truly capable to assist those who can't.I am just beginning a new career as aFacilitative Housing Worker and am presently training to be a somatic therapist.lam an advocate for the #homeless, for those with #schizophrenia and #psychosis and a #LivedExperience (First Voice) Research Advisor assisting new forms of education with the use of #artificialintelligence in the health and wellness industries.I am endeavouring to use life experience, education, and work experience to make this world a little better.I believe in fighting for the end of stigma.Life doesn't stop when you are a senior. My hope is to create new awareness and solutions for seniors with addiction and unresolved trauma issues; the majority of whom have fallen through the cracks. Seniors have the right to get better and not be dismissed because of an age. #proagingMy passion for life and using empathy, compassion and emotional intelligence to make this world a little better is because I truly believe that #weareallconnected! It would be wonderful to connect with you.Check out the sponser of the show never wait on hold again!! https://www.dayapp.net/Ladies & Gentleman… You know what I despise! Talking to a robot then waiting in Hold! I woukd like to introduce you to the New Sponser of the TrueLife Podcast! There AI technology dials the company’s number, goes through all the stages of interaction, then initiated a callback to you when an operator is connected! Never wait on hold AGAIN!Use PROMO code: TRUELIFEhttps://www.dayapp.net/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Fearist through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. We've got a beautiful guest here with an incredible story. It is Friday when we are marching into the weekend. And I wanted to bring to you someone special with a story that I think everybody can learn from.

So that being said, let me introduce the wonderful Renee Rosenman. How are you today, Renee? Hi, very well. Thank you. Very excited to be here. And this is a first for me to be able to tell my story to a large drive. And I'm very thrilled to be able to do that. Yeah, me too.

I think it's important for everyone to share their stories about triumph over trauma, which was a great book written by Randall, but I'm getting ahead of myself here. So today, you are a totally different person than you were a while back. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about who you are today. I will first say I'm a mother and the grandmother. Varys to be one, and that's why actually I'm here.

I'm a facilitative housing worker. I have 10 properties I managed in various parts of the city, and I have about 60 tenants that occupy these different properties. They're called shared accommodation. So, for example, in a few of them, you can cook in your own unit, but you have shared facilities. You still have a common kitchen. You have a backyard. You have a common living room.

You have laundry facilities. And the people, hopefully they'll get along, which there are, obviously, sometimes they don't. And then in the other homes, we have no cooking allowed in the rooms. They must use the shared kitchen, and they use the shared and all the other facilities. So they each have their chores. They're supposed to divvy it up, which is part of the reason that this was based on a facilitative housing model back in the 80s, when people apparently after a fire were displaced. So the city of Toronto came and got involved with the owners of these houses to work together,

to have a working relationship to help people, that are low-income, marginally housed people who had mental health issues, addiction issues, and give them an opportunity to be able to have a roof over their head and be able to afford it. So we have three workers, and we each have our different properties. And we help each other run a team. And of course, we work with whoever we can to ensure that the people stay housed. That is the whole point behind it.

So there are people who are very independent, and there are those which is very common. People age and they have disabilities. And that becomes a problem when they're on the second floor, for example. So we try to do what we can, but in a lot of cases they may have to leave and get into another housing situation, which provides for people with disabilities. So I have a lot of different hats that I wear. Even today, for example, I had to go to a house because somebody called the city and said, oh, there's all this garbage outside.

So Renee gets to go and take pictures and say to the tenants, okay, we have to fix this. Now, I don't know what the problem is, but we got to get that garbage out onto the street. So I can call the city and say it's cleared. So we also have to be very mindful of our neighbors. Okay, and even though those neighbors may include raccoons and squirrels, we still have to make sure that we don't give them a home, right? So that's, as I said, there's a lot involved. We have to, for example, someone leaves, we have to renovate the room,

and then we have to go to our waiting list and find people that will come, that will be a suitable candidate. Some of our houses are co-ed. Not every woman wants to be living in a co-head home. So, you know, that's also a very strenuous journey. Sometimes you would think that just anybody would just take anything if they're living in a tent or on the street, but that's not so. And, of course, we have problems like everyone else with pest control,

and we do that every month. We have three homes that I, sorry, three licensed rooming homes that I manage. There are, I think 10 in total, that the city actually licenses. So we have to be up to code. And they come and they inspect them once a year. And I have to make sure everything's fine with that. And now we are now updating all the rest of our houses as well. We want to make sure that our tenants are safe and secure.

Yeah, it seems like an interesting road to get there. I'm curious how you found yourself in this position. I know because I've talked to you a little bit. However, I think it would be an interesting segue maybe into the story of who you were before you became the person you are today. Well, you know that story, the three faces of E. Well, this is like 10 faces of Renee. So actually, it's a long story in a way because I came from St. Catherine, it's a very small city in comparison to Toronto.

But I ended up in Toronto, and of course I had a working life before my 15-year interlude. In fact, what's very interesting, and apropos is that it's hard to believe, but I actually ran an event. I was involved with fundraising and events along with other things, and I actually auctioned off in a celebrity auctioned with a competition with compost. it's a celebrity auction agency in California. As you know, for example, they were involved with Warren Buffett. I think they still are. Jay Leno. I was approached to do an event as a consultant and to auction off Rupert Murdoch

to raise funds for the Jerusalem College of Technology. And I did it. I actually am working with News Corporation. and another media house in Compulse. I put together an event where we had a lunch day prepared. And it took a couple of months. I actually had to postpone it because Katrina happened. It was very interesting because he's not as well liked as Warren Bucket.

In fact, his wife was very intrigued by it. In fact, when it ends, she actually called me and said, Renee. So what did he go for? And the person who actually bought him was the person who runs the learning exchange in New York. If it's still there, I'm not quite sure. But he actually ran Trump's University. He was a promoter for Trump University. I've done many interesting things in my life.

I actually owed that truck stop on the highway. I've had seven businesses, which I had one day to live. learn. I've been a major, major fundraiser, actually, but also a paralegal involved in all types of law, primarily real estate, which I enjoy very much. But I was really on every end from development to leasing it, to administering it. So that's where, in the sense, I got the background that I do have in property management and dealing in real estate. But what happened was, was that just before, one of the last things I did after I did the event with Rupert Murdoch, I was working because I'm also a reflexologist, aromatherapist. So I was part of an agency that was a

mobile spa agency in Canada, and I was doing therapies and sales. And then what happened was that my son, my younger son, was not well. And I knew he wasn't well. And as it turned out, he basically became diagnosed with schizophrenia. And my daughter was very instrumental in those days to be able to help him because when I realized that I couldn't help my child, you know, I was always a very involved mother. And I had actually just had back-to-back accidents, so I lost my ability to work. And then my son became sick, and I had never been so low in my life. I didn't really have a support group in place per se.

So I just actually ended up on welfare and just kept, you know, being more and more depressed and not being able to help my son. I couldn't even start to think about it, because he wasn't getting help, and he was refusing help, and it was a very difficult situation for my children. I was not married at the time. We were divorced my ex-husband and I, and so it wasn't a cohesive unit that we were working together to help Daniel, my son.

One day, I happened to be at a party, and someone happened to put a piece of crack in front of me. Now, I would never have, wasn't using. I wasn't drinking. I wasn't doing anything. I was a workaholic. That's what I was. Day and night, day and night. Trying to help, trying to support myself and help my children. And what happened was I figured, well, what's it going to hurt? You know, people do this, people do that. Well, I had no clue. I had no idea. What it would do to me. And of course, how I would end up losing the next 15 years of my life,

devoting myself to procuring this drug, and of course your whole life becomes about the drug and how you get it. And of course, during various phases, the people you meet, the people who abuse you, especially as a woman, the destruction that you go through, the inability to help yourself, the inability to fend for yourself.

I have to say fend for yourself. I have to say that because of my unfortunate background, I have what's called complex PTSD. And that comes from a childhood where you endure tremendous abuse. So what happens to a person with that is that you just keep taking it. And you fall into this pattern that you can't lead because you're not getting the correct help that you need. It wasn't that I didn't try.

Sometimes people are just very lucky. They find the right people. But when it's complex, that's exactly what it is, complex. There are many therapists who are unable to deal with that. And I was told that. I can't help you. You're too complex. I didn't know what I had at the time

because I was labeled all kinds of other things, right? And that's the other part, you know, to be able to get to understand exactly what is going. on with you, why you do the things you do, why you want to escape the world. And what I really did was disassociate. And when a person disassociates, it's very easy to do anything and not really care because it's not affecting you. It's like happening to the person over there.

It's not happening to you. And of course, I could talk for hours and hours, but I know that, you know, having the personality of the addictive personality. I mean, all of this comes from childhood abuse, childhood trauma. And so I guess I'm talking a lot with, I know you asked one question and I'm... No, it's perfect. It's perfect, please. I think it fills in the story nicely.

Yes. So, although I had reached, you know, the heights of what I was doing, you know, I fell very quickly in my personal life. And then, of course, again, as a mother, I mean, not every mother's the same. And of course, not every person's the same. There are a lot of people that are so lucky. They grow up with normal parents that love them, that care about them, they ensure their safety.

Psychological safety is what it's all about. I unfortunately didn't understand that. I didn't know that. So that flight or freeze syndrome that comes as a result of all the PTSD, it follows you everywhere and you make decisions based on always being in that state. So for me, yes, I developed to be a person of extremes. It was either all the way over here, all the way over there, the risks, the danger. I was fearless.

I still, well, to an extent, am very fearless. You know, you take chances that nobody would because you don't care about. about yourself. That's in essence what it is. When you don't care about yourself, when you have, you don't have self-esteem, you don't have confidence, or you have the wrong type of confidence. This is what happens. And so, in my inability to help my son, it further decimated me. Because I always thought, well, everything else was taken from me, but I have my children. And there's something that someone can't take from me. I'm a mother. And yet in the end, I did. I took it away from myself because I just felt so hopeless and didn't know what to do. And of course, as I said,

people don't get how quickly you become addicted to a drug. And it doesn't matter who you are, what you make, what you do, you know, that one drug will decimate you. Like, in fact, in Toronto, and people know this, our mayor actually, began an addiction to crack. And I was hoping at the time that the media and the newspapers would do a whole expose on it to help people understand. No, it's not the people that you might see on the street corner asking you for money.

Right? It happened to me. It happened to the mayor of our city. And I knew many people along my journey that other people would never imagine were actually using the same drug. So the stigma. is also another part of it. So there's many aspects and many parts to the aspects of addiction and mental health.

And substance use disorder and mental health disorder go hand in hand. They absolutely do. So some people are lucky that they can escape it. But today, it's so easily accessible. Like, for example, they've legalized marijuana, right? So it used to be always, no, you're not going to take marijuana because that's a gateway drug to much harder drugs. Well, now they've legalized it. So how do you turn around one day, the next day, and then all of a sudden it's okay?

Because, yeah, sure, that now we need the money for the taxes. But people are still using those drugs on every corner. There is a marijuana store now, every corner. So I will let you ask me another question because I won't ramble on at this point. Well, no, I think that thank you for, first off, thanks for answering that question. I think that all of these topics are, they're really important and they're important for people to hear who either find themselves going down a road or on a road or coming out of a road. And that's why I think your story is so amazing. I really like what you said about the idea of mental health.

and substance abuse going hand in hand. Because when we look at the patterns of people, myself included, I've used tons of different drugs in my life. And when I look back at the history of my childhood, I came from a broken home. And there's signs of abuse in the family that I lived in. If I look back even further, if we look at generational trauma, I can see things that happen to my father.

And so it's really, you know, I think that we're moving into a world where we're beginning to see that it's not so much the relationship the individual has with the drug, but the relationship that the individual has with the world around them, the community, the family, the education and stuff like that. So maybe you could touch a little bit more on that idea of mental health and substance abuse. All right. So I call myself a person with lived experience. I love it. Today, thank God that peer support and people with lived experience are finally being utilized because yes we can help today in fact I was in one of my homes and one of the people the tenants almost with great embarrassment because we

were discussing something and I had asked him a question and he just brought up the fact that he had been using so I looked in him straight in the eye and I said it's okay I also used the same same drug that you used, but I'm standing here today. Right? And I do this all the time. I mean, I've experienced homelessness. I've experienced hunger. I've experienced the worst shame.

That's also part of it. The absolute shame. Knowing, for example, especially for me as a mother, that my children should know, and thank you. God, they don't know most of things I have told them. But when you need that drug and mentally, like I said, you've gotten to that place where you don't care about yourself. You're so down. You're so filled with remorse, with shame, with embarrassment. And again, with the trauma that you don't even realize exists on a day-to-day basis because you haven't been able to tap into.

it to get the right person to help you, yes, well, it's okay, that drug's going to help me, right? That person who has that drug is going to help me. That person, well, they'll give me money. They're going to help me. You don't think correctly. You can't. You end up, and as I did, actually, becoming psychotic. You can have what's called drug-induced psychosis or drug-induced schizophrenia. I myself ended up twice in actually the most preeminent addictions in mental health hospital here in Toronto in Canada. I'm actually now a research advisor for the same hospital.

Nice. In fact, I was asked to be on the Patient Advisory Council. It's quite an honor. and because they know it's also because there is an intersection between homelessness and substance use and mental health disorder, mental illness.

And, you know, you have the people who will come into the emergency room and you can assess them and know, what about all the people who won't? You see them on the street, you don't see them in their houses using. So the stigmatization of, of everything, the mental health and substance abuse, and then we have the criminal aspect to it.

How many people keep landing up in jail because they keep boosting or stealing to support their habit. And ironically, and I'll divulge something now that I don't think most people realize, there was a whole underground economy. It's a whole black market economy. And they use and they abuse the people who need drugs. And they profit because a corner store will know that they can ask a person who needs money to support themselves to go steal something for them. And they will. And they'll resell it and make a much bigger profit.

This is going on all around you, all over, all the time. And so, you know, and of course, you know, the police know this. I mean, there is so much that's not known, that should be known. And then when we all know all that, we should take away the criminal charges and stigmatization of people because it's not their fault. And it's not their fault for many reasons. And they get into that lifestyle and they can't get out of it. And you have these people perpetuating this over and over and over. And they know they don't have to worry because,

guess what? They get their checks once a month. It can be gone in one day, two days or two hours. I can remember many times hanging out on the block, as they say, with my fellow users waiting for the clock to strike 12, because we know that the money is going to be in our bank account. And all the dealers hanging out, knowing that we're going to get that money at 12 o'clock in our bank accounts. And I could tell you many, stories. I could also tell you that in those 15 years of all the people I hung out with, I'm the only one alive. That's it. They're all gone. You're all gone. Because fentanyl happened. People don't realize that how much of the drug supply, even marijuana, is laced with fentanyl. And that one puff could be your last. And I was very fortunate that the day that I quit,

I had a friend who was with me and had I not quit three days later, she actually stole someone's crack, thinking it was crack, it wasn't. It was fenced and all. She smoked and she went to sleep and never woke up. That was the last of my friends. And had I been with her,

I probably wouldn't be here now either talking to you. So you never know when it's your moment. And I can tell you the suffering that I saw and the abuse and the death, the terrible deaths that people suffered as a result. Because people don't realize that it depends on the drug you use, of course. But what happened to me is that the atrium of my heart became enlarged and your blood pressure increases as a result of using cocaine. But you don't know that.

They don't tell you that. When the dealer had you the drug, they just say, give me the money. they don't say oh yeah by the way you're going to lose your life they mix things in in order to make more profit and all the way down the chain and you don't know when when you get something that it's going to be the last time you're going to use and especially today there is

it's a terrible situation because it's not just fentanyl anymore it's something called xiling which is also on the street which naloxin can't even wake up these people I worked in safe injection sites, constantly overdoses. And at least it's happening there. Safe injection sites are so crucial and so wonderful because at least the people will go in there and still walk out alive. Because outside, they're dying all around.

If the numbers keep increasing, they keep increasing, and they can't stop it for many reasons. But again, at the end of the day, what's happening is that these people using don't know anything else in their life. And they don't care. They're in pain, whether it's emotional pain or physical pain, and they don't care. They want something to take it away.

And until we have different, I don't know, different types of centers that don't just deal with the using aspect, but also bring in helping them emotionally with their traumas. And, you know, there's a few things that, if I was able to and I could bring together people and find the money and raise the money, I know of different ways that I feel that I would like to see happen to help people. At least I think I could make a dent, a little dent, but a little dent is better than nothing. Right now, maybe 2 to 4% of people who use heavily make it.

I thank God every second of every day. And of course, the next question would be, how is it that I came, right? How is it? Yeah, that's a good one. Okay, yeah. You know, I knew, instinctively, you know, you still have your little intuition, still talking to you. And what I did was over the course of those years that when I finally made up my mind, okay, maybe I was 10 years in that I wanted to try to quit. I went to five rehabs over the course of, well, actually 10 years.

I went to five rehabs. I had two addiction psychiatrists. I had a detox, a couple of detoxes. Yeah, and none of them worked. And the minute I left, I relapsed. That's what's happening. Because when you're in there, you're in a bubble, a total bubble. And it's wonderful.

You're in that bubble and you're not using, you're not thinking about it. unfortunately a lot of the bubbles you prescribed sleeping pills so then you really aren't part of it and you don't know what's happening and I spent actually for one beautiful rehab for two months $32,000

I might as well have taken it thrown it into the garbage because a sleeping pill I was given every night so I could sleep and I needed to made me so groggy I didn't know half the time what I was doing and that's you see that's the other problem your days become your nights. Your nights become your days.

So you be up all night. Because the whole cycle of using is getting it. So you have to get it. You have to go in the pursuit of it. And that takes a long time, right? Then you have to find your dealers. Then you have to find a place to use. And then because you're using, you're up all night.

So if you're lucky you crash. If not, some people, a lot of people and myself included, will stay up, two nights, three nights, four nights, et cetera, et cetera. So when you finally get into a rehab, you can't sleep. So that's not helping the rest of the people in the house when you're not sleeping. So that's what happens. They give you something to sleep. And then you can't get up, right?

That's what happens. So, yeah. The other problem is, you know, they talk about with all these different 12-step groups? Well, people, places, and things. Yes, I went to many of those, but that's the problem. People, you get out, you go back to the same neighborhood because you live there, and right away people see you. They know you're there. That's it. You're finished. I won't say that not it. Yes, there are people. During my stays, I have come across a few that we're able to do it, depending on the drug, depending how long they had taken it.

It didn't help me. What helped me was, first of all, that I made a certain promise to God because I am very spiritual. I started to do different things as opposed to doing to boost or whatever else I was doing. I would say, you know what, I'll borrow the money and I'll pay it back. And if I can't, I don't have it, that's it. And somehow, because I had that inner strength, and not everyone does, I guess I did, because I was different.

I didn't start using until I was in my late 40s, as opposed to a lot of people in their teenage years or 20s. And that's very dangerous. I had lived a life already. I had children. I had a house. A mortgage worked. So my outlook was a little bit different going in. So that was the first part.

And then I knew that I needed to get back to work. I had no self-esteem left. So I was on this government, we have this government assistance. There's two types. One of them is when you have disabilities. And drug usage is like a substance use disorder amongst mental health disorders is still considered eligible for the money. And so lost by train and thought here for seconds. Sorry, what was I said? Were you getting back to work? And then you had a different outlook.

Sorry, that's right. Getting back to work. So I, but through them, you're allowed to get an employment supports counselor, which I did. And she was the best. And she was incredible. And I actually, well what she did was she like did the cover letter she did the resume she got the interview for me so I had to show up ironically just the same day I was going to show up I was getting out of the bathtub and I fell and really hurt myself and I said no I'm still going and I did I made it right so I got through the interview and I got the job and it was like I knew it I knew I could do it. And that's what you need.

You need that. I know. I can do it. And you need somebody there behind you saying, yes, Renee, you can do it. And my worker did. She was incredible. I love her. I love her.

I love her. And what happened was I was still using. I was using for about three months. But I managed to show up. I started as a cashier in the grocery store. And the funny part was I had this fantasy since I was a little girl. I always wanted to be a cashier in the grocery store. I don't know why everyone has there, you know.

But I always thought it would be so exciting. And until I had to find out that I had to memorize, right, like a thousand codes. But it was okay. I did okay. We had cheat sheets and we helped each other. I had so much fun. And I was back with people. And it was during the pandemic.

But I didn't care. I was going insane at home. So yes, I did that. And then, and just prior to that, actually, I should say, my daughter told me she was pregnant. That was it for me. Because just before that, someone had said to me, you know, it was a counselor, actually.

You said, you know, or I had said to him, I don't understand. I'm not stupid. Why can't? stop. What is wrong with me? I know it all. I've been to all these rehabs. I've seen all this destruction. I've lost all this money. I mean, we're talking thousands and thousands, as you can imagine. I could have bought a couple of houses, right? I've destroyed, you know, my family's love for me because you're so angry at me. Like, what is wrong with me? He said, you know,

Renee, you have to want it more than anything else in the whole world. And I thought about that. statement and I said, you know what, I guess I really haven't wanted it more than anything else in the whole world. So I started to break it down. Yeah, really, because you have to do that. And then I had to say, well, what do I really want more than anything else in the world? And why wasn't it enough for me to quit? I had children. I loved my kids. I had had a work career. I love my work career. You know, I didn't love myself enough. That was the problem. I didn't like myself enough. So I said, okay, that's it.

What am I going to do? What am I going to do? And then that was when my daughter told me she was pregnant. And that's when I said to myself, well, okay, Renee, here we are. This is the crossroads. You get to be a bubby. Well, and I happen to be Jewish, you know, and we say you're a bubby, you know, like as opposed to a grandmother, okay?

I get to be a bubby, and I love mine, right? It's like fabulous memory. I get to be a bubby who is wonderful and loving and kind. And you have a wonderful relationship with your granddaughter growing up and you go places. You do things, all those exciting little things. And you watch your grow and develop. Or him, sorry, I didn't know what the next one's going to be. Or you never get to know your grandchild because your daughter is not going to allow you to be around them.

based on your behavior, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And yes, it's cruel, but, you know, how could I blame her? I had put her life at risk, and that's another whole story. I'm lucky that my daughter still talks to me or any of my children. Anyway, so, yeah, I made it my mind, and I made a deal with God, I said, okay, I promise I'm going to quit on the day she's born, but can you please make it easy for me? So you want to know? He did. He really did. It was like I, yeah, it was like I, it was all gone. And I was still living in the place where I'd been using, you know, for over five years. And it didn't bother me. It was all gone.

because and she was born. In fact, yeah, she's absolutely amazing. And, you know, anytime, and I will tell you, yes, you still have triggers. You still, even like today, I was going down alleyways walking to get to where I had to get to my next property. And I almost ran and I couldn't breathe because all these memories flooded back to me because I used to hang out in alleyways, right? and smoke. And so I couldn't wait to get to the house and just get that memory behind me. So, you know, the vigilance, the resilience, the ability to withstand all this constantly is part of what I was saying that, and I just touched lightly on that about being able to get out of it.

But how do you stay that way? You know, yes, going to meetings, but it's not a nice. You want to get to be part of life again. I wanted my children to love me and respect me again. I wanted to take part in the world and be part of making it better again. And so what happened was, yes, I did quit. And actually three weeks, sorry, three months later, I actually quit smoking too. After like 22 years, but actually about 40 odd years because I kept quitting for all my kids, right?

But then after my youngest was nine, I started. started again and I was already 22 years smoking. So when she told me, you know, when you come see your granddaughter, you can't smell cigarettes or have it because, of course, I didn't even know it transferred. So you'll have to take a shower. And I was like, no, I'm not doing that. I'm not taking 3,000 showers a day.

Forget it. Okay, that was it. I quit. Thank God. You know, That's actually one of the hardest things is to quit cigarettes even more, you know, and to quit both at the same time. But I was so determined. I had such a love for my granddaughter.

And then I realized, you know, I'm starting to like myself, right? So I was still working as a cashier. And then something wonderful happened, a miracle that I had a therapist at the time who told me that. people that were over 55 that were wanting to go back to, well, not even go back to school, but just they gave us a free laptop and free Wi-Fi for two years. Oh, nice. Yes, that was. That was a miracle.

And as soon as I got that, I said, okay, all right, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? Because this is something. And, yes, I enrolled in college. And I said, what am I going to do? I said, yes, I'm going to. help other people. And it was a year straight, and it was fun, it was exciting,

and it was actually very frustrating, because it turned out that usually I was the only one with lived experience, which I found very difficult in the program. And I'm not, I don't, and I wouldn't put down anyone who has taken these courses, means well, and everything. We need a lot of addiction counselors. However, for myself, there was actually, or actually it made more sense to me to quit when I had a counselor who could tell me

that she would do me as well. And of course, when I was in these rehabs, there weren't so many at that time. There wasn't so much peer support and people who lived experience. But now there is, thank God, it's just growing rapidly, these type of programs and peer support, et cetera. It's wonderful. So I did that. I graduated and I had to do a practicum.

It was so funny because I ended up doing the practicum for a housing provider where I had actually lived for two years because I had mental health and addictions issues. I was on a special housing list. There's two different housing lists, right? There's the normal housing and then there's the housing for people who have mental health. addiction issues. So I spent two years in a house with 27 units with, there was four of us women, and I think there was 23 men. And that was something, really something. Another story. And so then I left, and I went back, you know, I went back. And unfortunately, I went back to the wrong area. But anyway,

the thing is that it was very interesting for me because they knew of me. And when they brought me in and now I'm sitting on the other side, it was something else. Really for me, it was really something else. And actually, I developed a program for them to help people get free laptops because that's part of the process, I believe, in getting back to some sense of self-esteem for yourself that when you're able to become part of the world, part of the internet world, which is you need today. You can't do anything without it. So that's very important. So to have gainful employment, be able to have a laptop and actually get Wi-Fi,

get a trade, all kinds of things. Anyway, I put together a program and I spent three months doing that for them. And then I signed on with a mental health support agency. So they sent me out. I went into shelters, even shelter hotels. You know, it was very hard for me because I'd been there myself as well. And my heart ached and still all the time aches all the time because I get it. I understand it and I just want to help.

And so many people that are helping don't have a lived experience, but they're also very burnt out. There's been a tremendous, tremendous upheaval in our lives in our world with the pandemic, causing all kinds of crises in increased mental health issues and addiction problems. And it's so, so bad. So many people losing jobs, so many people not able to afford increasing costs of rent and food.

it's really a dire situation going on but so what happened was I was being sent to supportive housing sites to safe injection sites to shelters as well people would say well how can you do it how can you even go into safe injection sites it's okay I said I made a deal with God

he took it all away yes once in a while I yes like today I have these flashbacks right, it's hard. But primarily my focus was on helping people and understanding what's going on with them. So they could talk to me and they knew that. And it's, I'm not going to maybe get them to quit in a day, of course. But even if they know that there's somebody there that gets them and they can just talk and I can just listen and be there for them to listen, that's really important because they know that someone is not stigmatizing them.

And that's the most important thing. When you feel you're lost no matter what, when you feel that stigmatization is just drilling you into the ground, how do you get out of it? How do you get up? And there's so many aspects of that that make it so difficult to get clean and to stay clean. Because, you know, like I will forever be the most grateful to the people who help me along the way. and especially this job

which I still believe came from God because I didn't even apply for it. It was so funny. It was like I put my resume on this site and someone saw it. And that person who saw it and of course she interviewed me but she saw I wasn't

I didn't pull any punches with my resume. Yeah. And she looked beyond it and she gave me a chance. I will ever be so grateful to this woman and the people I work with are so wonderful and they gave me an opportunity to not just come back to life but to live again and feel part of a team part of being able to help people

I've never been happier in my whole life I found out who I am what makes me happy how to make others or try to make others happy but I've actually started to do some addiction counseling finally. I'm doing, yeah, I'm doing, I'm trying to make up for 15 years, and I'm doing too much. I know I am. I'm very tired.

But, you know, I want to get my show on the road, really. That's what I want to do. And I think I'm very grateful to you for letting me talk today. and maybe some people are listening to know that I just want to help any way I can. And if people need me, I'm there. I want to be there. And I want to do more whatever I can because there are ways and better ways I feel to help people. And I'm hoping I'll get a chance to put them into practice.

So this is one of the ways that maybe that will help. People might hear and say, okay, what can we do to help? What do you think, Renee? What is there better to do out there that's not being done? And that's one of my goals. And also, of course, because I got clean, because I started to come back to reality, I was also able to help my son.

That's another journey that I was able to accomplish. I can't thank God enough for the ability to be able to do it again. He put me back right where I started, and this time I did it right. And this time I have a son who I see practically every day, who lives a block from me, who is an incredible artist.

You have to see his artwork. It's amazing. He's also a wordsmith. He's like a slam poetry type of person. He writes. He's, oh, he's amazing. And I'm endeavoring to help. help him get his art out there shown.

He has been. Actually, some people have commissioned him already. Very spiritual, incredible human being that deserved a chance. And thank God I was able to do that. And that's another whole package out there. How many people are suffering, they can't help their loved ones because they're falling through the cracks everywhere. You know, schizophrenia is another whole, you know,

difficult situation and it all falls again into that it still does with that umbrella with substance use disorder mental health stigmatization it's all part of one package and it all comes down to people learning to have empathy to have compassion to be kind to one another to we're all connected you know like if you're going to hurt i'm going to hurt so if we help each other not hurt look what we can do. Yeah. That's that's part of my goal as well is to, you know, somehow get under people's skin. I hope I do. Yeah. I think it's a, you know, all the most beautiful stories in the world are stories that are filled with obstacles and trauma and the true beauty of the story is to see the person who's involved in overcome that trauma. And I love the way in which you were able to reach back

and have fond memories of the people that gave you a chance at something, whether it was the person with the resume or getting the job or, you know, the people in your life that showed you a kind smile when the world was frowning at you or was all looking down on you. And it's like one of the most beautiful parts to me is that you became that person that gave you a chance. And now you are giving other people a chance. And I love the idea of lived experience because the truth is we all want to help people but really the people that can help people the most are the people that have lived experience,

the people that have gone through something similar to you. It's unfortunate, but those are the only people that can really understand what it is that can help. And like you said, maybe it's just listening. Maybe it's just being there. But that's something that only someone like yourself who has lived experience can really do. And it's such a guiding light for people who find themselves in the dark night of the soul. Because just to see someone that has made it out. allows you to know what's possible.

You could talk to a million counselors, a million doctors, a million people that have never gone through what you've gone through. And the hope that they provide to you is like a Diet Coke because they can't, even though they may love you so much, they can't grasp what it is you're facing. But because you, Renee, have gone through something like that. And you found the courage. And even when there was no courage there,

you figured out a way to summon the courage to make it through. Like that is the kind of stories that I think make the world better. It's the human condition finding a way to overcome all tragedy when there's no hope left. And like it makes me want to cry a little bit. Like I love you, Renee. I'm so stoked that you're sharing this with me. And I'm so stoked that you're sharing it to people. And I know for a fact that people are going to listen to this.

And they're going to be inspired. And they're going to reach out to you or reach out. Maybe they don't reach out to you, Renee, but maybe they help that person. Maybe they're the person that gives somebody else a chance. I think that's what this story does. I'm so thankful. I should be the one thanking you, so thank you for coming and talking to me. My pleasure.

Anytime. Yeah, it's funny on LinkedIn, my hashtag is we're all connected because we are. Right? And we're all in this together, right? Agreed. So tough times are ahead. They're here and they're going to be tougher. Right.

And if people can look their way past. a lot of their own foibles and just open that heart a little bit, have a little bit of compassion and a little bit of empathy. The world will, you know, it'll make it easier to get through what we're going to have to go through now, right? So yeah, that's important because it can be done. Yeah. But you got to want it more than anything else in the whole world. That's such great advice.

It's such great advice. Renee, I am really thankful to you just spend time together. And I can have you come back. If you got time in the future, you can come back and we can do more talks to this. Because I think people need to hear the voice of reason. They need to hear lived experience. Maybe we can cover some other topics and stuff in the future. Or maybe we can bring your son on and talk about his artwork.

Get him to show some of that kind of stuff too. I love trying to be around people that inspires them. So that's what we got going on. But before I let you go, Renee, where can people find you? Say someone hears this and they want to reach out to you. How can people find you? Where are you at? Okay.

Well, what would you like? I mean, I email address or a website or a LinkedIn or? I'm actually going to start a website. I haven't yet. I just have my own, you have my email address. I do. I'm on LinkedIn as well, as you know. I do have an Instagram

which I don't really do too much except it's interesting what I do there is I post affirmations just positive affirmations all the time because that is such a part of it right? One of my favorite ones is let go and let God and I know that the 12th step program has that one

I tell it to my kids all the time and then they say it right back to me hey mom let go and let God right? you know, because I am a Jewish mother, right? That's so funny. Yeah. Anyway, so yeah.

Would you like me to say it? Well, I'll put the links in the show notes too, but you can say it as well. And maybe if people don't do the show notes. My email is Renee. So it's R-E-N-E-E and then Rosen. So it's R-E-N-E-R-O-S-E-E-R-O-S. S-E-N and the numeral one at hotmail.com. All right.

Yeah, I'll put that in your LinkedIn address in the show notes. And anybody who may want to reach out if they need some advice, or maybe there's people that would like you to have you come and talk at a place or they can get some consulting from you to this idea about laptops is a phenomenal idea. I'm hopeful that that could be something that went viral and helped everybody out. So you have a lot of great ideas. And more than great ideas, you have lived experience. And it's that experience that can truly help people.

So let's try to get as much people reaching out to Renee as possible. Okay. Thank you so much for having me. Of course. And I will, I'm going to end the broadcast. And I'll shoot you a email shortly after. So Renee, thanks again for today. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for spending time with us today.

I hope that you got to be as inspired as I am today. and I hope that you see a bright future tomorrow for everyone out there and you reject the stigmas and you help people whenever you can because that's the name of the game. So that's what we got today. Ladies and gentlemen, Aloha. Aloha. Aloha.

All right.