TrueLife - Rome Shadanloo - Razors & Roses

Starting point is 00:00:01 Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

Starting point is 00:00:49 The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphene. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Friday. I hope the birds are singing. I hope the sun's shining. I hope the wind is at your back. I have with me today an incredible.

Starting point is 00:01:13 an incredible guest. Someone that I met at Silesa Sivan, San Francisco, 2025. Thank you, Malika, for being such an amazing person. And let me just go ahead and just say aloh, everyone. Today I'm honored to introduce a truly transformative force in the world of psychedelic therapy, Rome Shandalu. As the founder of Micology, psychology, Rome has dedicated her life to healing the deep wounds of C-P-TSD and attachment injuries, blending cutting-edge science with profound compassion. with a degree in holistic psychology from Leslie University and a specialization in psychonumerology. Rome's work unveils the intricate connections between the mind and body, offering relief for chronic pain rooted in emotional trauma. She has guided over 100 individuals through the integration of psilocybin, 5MEODMT, and MDMA experiences,

Starting point is 00:02:05 helping them find clarity, balance, and healing. Rome's approach is as diverse as it is impactful, incorporating internal family, systems, reparenting techniques, and quantum healing into her practice. As a certified death dula, she also provides soulless and guidance during life's most profound transitions. Her career spans impactful roles, including her time at Proposition 36 rehab facilities, where she supported incarcerated and formally incarcerated individuals in moments of urgent crisis. Her ability to create space for transformation, whether through therapy, integration, or crisis support is a testament to her deep commitment to healing at every level. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Rome to the show. Rome,

Starting point is 00:02:46 how are you? I'm amazing. Thank you. You are. No, yeah. I came on. I want everyone to know that when we first got on the call, you were blasting Ziggy Marley. And it just like brightened my already bright day. And I'm just really happy to be here with you. And yeah, let's do this thing. Yeah. Yeah, we were kind of riven before the conversation started. It's always such a sign of a good podcast. We were being really thankful for microdosing. And you know what? You have, you took sort of a circuitous route to healing people and jumping onto the stage here at psychedelic San Francisco. Like maybe you could talk a little bit about your background and how you kind of got to be where you are now. Yeah, absolutely. I just want to address, the interesting thing is I did not end up getting my degree, and I will tell you how that happened. All right. I was three electives away from getting my degree in holistic psychology, and then COVID happened. And I was in Boston. And I was, God bless Boston, wonderful, but I said, I am not going to. hunker down here in Boston. I came back to LA and I definitely definitely hit the ground running when I got here because I was already working with people and and suddenly people

Starting point is 00:04:13 just really wanted to dive into medicine work and more people showed up and more people showed up and more people showed up and so this is kind of how my psychology psychology got started and by the time I wanted to go finish those electives I didn't have time and And I thought to myself, you know what? I feel confident in my role as a helper. You know, I feel a little weird about calling myself a healer because I believe that really people have to heal themselves. We help them. We facilitate.

Starting point is 00:04:52 We reflect back to them. We give the connection because, as they say, you know, we get wounded in relationship so we can also heal in relationship. And as much as, you know, radical responsibility is important, we need connections. This is how we're wired as human beings. But to your question, and I believe it was how did I get started doing all of this? Right. You know, really from my own need to heal. Right.

Starting point is 00:05:22 It's kind of like the origin story of so many people who do this work. I wanted to be the person that I needed when I was. was in that space. And I saw so many irresponsible, egotistical and or predatory therapists and coaches and shamans and healers on this, and doctors on this quest to get healthy mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually. And for me, you know, it was, there was this moment where I had decided, you know, I want to be a safe space for someone like me to go to. And that's really how it started for me. And also, you know, the truth is this. You know, they talk about, you know, empaths being empaths and it's so wonderful and it's so hard. And the truth is, if you're an

Starting point is 00:06:15 empath, you probably had a shitty childhood and had to anticipate the adult's needs. That's where it comes from. And that was my childhood. I had to anticipate the adult's needs in order to feel safe and it became a superpower. And now I know how to anticipate people's needs and feel their emotions, but the difference is through my own healing work, really learning how to do that in a more boundaryed way where I don't self-abandoned in order to do it. So I love working with people. I'm really grateful for that this is my Dharma. I was telling someone yesterday that for all the shit that's happened, I would never trade places with another human being. because I'm very familiar with my own stuff and I like who I've become.

Starting point is 00:07:03 I like I have fought to become. I have fought for my soul. And I'm really, really grateful that I get to share it with other people and contribute to light in the world. But also very comfortable with sitting with the darkness because light doesn't need more light. It's the darkness that needs to be illuminated by the light. And, you know, playing in both worlds without spiritual bypassing and toxic positivity is extremely important to me. I think I answered your question. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:07:39 It was a beautiful answer. Was there ever a time? I know for me, there were plenty of times when, like, I didn't like who I was. And like, that's kind of how I ended up doing a lot of work on myself is that I would be, I tell the story. People can be like, George, you tell a story all the time. I'll tell it one more time. There was a guy at my work, and I used to be, okay, yeah, it's a, it's a, I enjoy it because it helps remind me of becoming a better person.

Starting point is 00:08:05 And so there was this guy at my work one time, and I was always really mean to him. And, you know, I just thought I was talking shit. I'd be like, ah, you know, say something. And one time after maybe months had gone by, one of my friends pulled me aside and I'm like, George, you are being an asshole to this guy. And I'm like, no, I'm not. Like, that's just how I, we're just playing, man. I'm like, he likes that.

Starting point is 00:08:26 And he's like, no, no, no, no, no. You are being a dick, George. I remember that night I went home and I had taken like a giant dose of mushrooms And I was sat there thinking about this problem and I was like, am I being an asshole? And like, you know, the thought comes to my mind like, yep, okay, okay, I'm being a dick, okay, got it. Why am I being a dick? And then the next thought, yeah, right? You sit with that why long enough.

Starting point is 00:08:50 And then these bubbles in your mind start popping up and the first one that rises to the surface like, And it's like, you don't like him because he's weak. And the next one pops up, you don't like him because you're weak. Oh, man. I just get goosebumps thinking about it. I have goosebumps too. Right? And I'm like, that guy is reminding me how weak I am.

Starting point is 00:09:10 And instead of me doing any work on myself, I just yell at him and make fun of him. Like, I am, that is a horrible thing to do. So I had to go and like apologize to him. And the guy was super cool. He was like, yeah, you are a dick. And I told him all this stuff. He started laughing. And he goes, yeah, yeah, whatever.

Starting point is 00:09:24 But he accepted my apology. And from that point on, like that was a turning point for me. Like, wow, these things I see in other people that I don't like are really things about me that I don't like. So that's a story about something in me that I had to change. I didn't like. Can you share a story about maybe about time when you didn't like yourself and some work that you did to make yourself feel better or be better? Wait, I'm sorry. I'm still in your story.

Starting point is 00:09:49 Because I not only got chills, but I almost cried. Like, speaking about how, and maybe this is an assumption, but like, how you may have, like, given yourself a moral injury when you realized how you had hurt this other human being and you didn't even really mean to, you know, like, yeah, it's just, it just, so what was the question? Yeah. Yeah. For me, psychedelics was this sort of pathway to see this new awareness or to be part of. this awareness. And it helped change my life. And that's just one of many stories that I think many people in this space have that are real stories that may not be something that could be measured in a clinical trial. You know, you may not have to have a degree to do it. You don't need a

Starting point is 00:10:38 psychology degree. You don't need a neuroscience degree. But there are tangible things in your life that you can measure through psychedelics like this particular instance that change you forever. And it changed me to liking myself a little bit more, at least showing me. me the parts of that I need to work on. And like I just I know a little bit about your story, like how, where you were born and how you fought. And I was just curious if maybe we could continue, you know, maybe you could share something with me and the audience that maybe they could look at in their life and be like, oh yeah, I've seen that or I can, I can vibe with that. Sure. Yeah. Um, well, I've had a few really profound experiences on psychedelics, but I,

Starting point is 00:11:23 my first psychedelic experience, and this doesn't, high school doesn't count, you know, like when I took mushrooms and my mom caught me and then made me take like a tracadone to interrupt my trip and didn't offer one to my friend who was up all night crying by herself. That doesn't count, okay? That's incredible. And now my mom does mushrooms, but that's fine. Imagine that. So I'm talking about my first spiritual, psychedelic experience.

Starting point is 00:11:53 with a fully formed prefrontal cortex, you know, and a fully formed ego. Because when you're doing psychedelics under the age of 25, you're still building your ego up. You're still figuring things out. Your brain is not fully developed. But after that age, that's when you start, you know, taking the ego apart and rearranging it and really looking at it. So, you know, after 12, no, sorry, 15 years in Alcoholics Anonymous, doing endless step work, endless sponsoring people, going to endless therapy since the age of nine, you know,

Starting point is 00:12:30 I had shared, I believe that I got stuck. I had done all this work, but I still didn't feel comfortable in my skin and in my body. I had learned how to like not be an asshole for the most part, not fully, but you know, but it was very much like, don't do this. This is wrong. And it came from up here, not from the heart. And so the first time that I sat with ayahuasca, and that was like, I believe, 2015, the grandmother, the medicine showed me such deep love and compassion that I was humbled. I was humbled into being a better person. And I was not ashamed because the medicine didn't bring me shame, but I was always able to observe. the mistakes I had made with other people and where I wasn't being compassionate enough and I

Starting point is 00:13:27 wasn't being kind enough. And really, for me, it showed me that I didn't have, I didn't have what I'd never received, right, to give to other people. But I received it in the medicine. And because I received it in the medicine, I was so grateful, George, I was so grateful. I was like, this is it. I made it. I don't think I would have made it without that experience. And what really specifically happened here is that I grew up for whatever reason, feeling no connection to my own grandmother on my mother's side or my father's side, but specifically to my mother's side. And really no connection to my own mother either.

Starting point is 00:14:07 And I was kind of thought like, oh, maybe there's something wrong with me. Like maybe I'm a sociopath. Like, why don't I love my grandmother? I don't understand. And in the medicine, I remember I was going through some really profound feeling of humility and love. And I was crying and my teardrops were gigantic. And they were splashing on the floor and I could hear them splashing on the floor.

Starting point is 00:14:34 And a facilitator came over and she started patting my back really compassionately. And she was like, you're doing amazing. You're doing amazing. And suddenly, I want to have chills right now, I felt like this pink. beautiful energy going through my body. I felt a feeling I'd never felt in my life. I never felt that level of love and comfort and joy and peace. And suddenly I felt eight hands on my back.

Starting point is 00:15:10 And I was like, what's going on here? And it was an octopus. And this octopus was petting me, stroking my hair, holding me. And the octopus said, I am your mother and I have enough hands to take care of you, myself, and everything else, don't you worry? And I realized that growing up, you know, I didn't have that from my mother, not because she didn't want to be a good mother, not because she's not an incredible human being, but because she was dealing with her own trauma and she felt overwhelmed by being a mother. And so I had a very reparative experience with this octopus. And coming out of that journey, it completely changed my relationship to my mother and my grandmother. And I realized I wasn't rejecting them.

Starting point is 00:16:03 I was rejecting the trauma that they had that I was trying to somehow prevent from being passed on to me. But I was actually perpetuating by disconnecting from the compassion piece. And so yeah, our relationships changed forever. Another really quick one, and this one's kind of funny. It's like later in my journey, I think this was just a few years ago. I had done like five grams of mushrooms. And, you know, it got very visual. And, you know, I was like getting these downloads and I was, you know, getting all this

Starting point is 00:16:46 wisdom from the universe. And I was like, God, wow, Rome, you're so wise. I was like, you should write books and like really like going into that ego spiritual trap, right? And suddenly this jack in the box appeared in front of me and this clown popped out and started laughing at me. And I got immediately that it was my ego going, got you. I got you. And I was like, oh, okay, you're right. my God, you're right, you're right. And I'm like, it's, you know, it's not from me, it's through me, it's source, it's medicine, it's nature, credit where credit is due, you know, and then I'd be like, yeah, Rome, you're so good at being humble. And then the clown popped up again. And what it really taught me is, you know, there's really nothing more egotistical than wanting to not have any

Starting point is 00:17:43 ego as a human being. And that's the trapdoor right there. So, you know, I've had a, I've had a couple of experiences on medicine for sure. And like, that's two of many that have really changed me as a human being. And when you told the story about being mean to your coworker, I remembered a story when I was 19 years old. I was very mean to my coworker. And I think that's kind of how the reason I got a little emotional when you were telling that story. Now I'm looking back on that. And she was, a single mother. She was trying to feed her children, but we were in competition for commission. And yeah, and there was something about her I didn't like. And I think I didn't like the desperation she

Starting point is 00:18:27 was feeling. I think it scared me. And so I think that's why I got a little emotional. And if I could even remember her name or find her, I would have loved to have made amends to her. But, you know, even these conversations together are medicine. You know, our conversations can be. You very psychedelic when we're vulnerable and we tell the truth. So thanks, George. Those are awesome stories. Thanks for sharing. It's it blows my mind to think about how long something can stay with you, whether it's a relationship that bothered you, an incident with your parents or maybe your kid or a loved one on some level. It's like this unresolved situations. Sometimes they just stay with us. They're hard to let go.

Starting point is 00:19:13 right what what do you do like if someone comes to you room like you sat with a lot of people and you've helped been a lot of integration working only in yourself but other people what are some some things people get stuck on and and what is some information that you can provide to people when they find themselves when these negative repeating patterns yeah um well what i've found is that it really gets stuck in the body you know it gets lodged in the body and you know there's it's very interesting. So like, you know, you ask like, what is the quantum work? You know, how do you work with chronic pain in psychoimmunology? And, you know, what it really is is I'm finding more and more and more through my work with others and myself that, you know, we have memories

Starting point is 00:19:58 stored in our fascia. And not only our memories, but our ancestors experiences. And so I call it like lasagna of time where there's like layers of like the lasagna. and then the meat and then the cheese and then the lasagna and then the meat and the cheese. And so it's like going back and like really taking apart this lasagna, you know, and looking through it, you know, I don't know if you can ever get rid of anything. I don't believe you can. I think once something has happened, it will have always happened. And it kind of gets lodged in that lasagna.

Starting point is 00:20:39 And it's recorded in our bodies and in our fascia. but what we can do is change our relationship to what's happened, listen to what's happened, see what's happened, because a lot of the times the pain is like a little child that just wants to be soothed and seen and hurt. So really working with that, and I'll do bodywork around it, because here's the thing about just talk therapy

Starting point is 00:21:05 and going through your story. First, at first, it's wonderful. You're speaking to someone who's listening, to you. Like, oh my God, someone is listening to you. Even if you're paying them, they're sitting there, they're listening to you. They're reflecting you back to you. It's wonderful. You feel relational. You feel a connection. You feel reflection from them. And this goes back to healing and relationship with someone. That's what's so magical about going in and talking something out with someone. And it's very organizing. But after a while, it can actually start hurting you because what you're doing

Starting point is 00:21:41 is you're going in week to week to week and telling your story, telling your story, and telling your story, and what you're doing is you're just reinforcing those negative neural pathways and those beliefs, and you're really getting really married to your story. But the work with psychedelics and the work with the body work is beyond language. It's going in through time and going back for something, you know, and rearranging your relationship with it or freeing one of the of your exiled parts, you know, and getting back to the core self. But I am very clear through this medicine work that it's not just our stories, it's the stories of our ancestors.

Starting point is 00:22:25 And as cheesy as it can sound, and as much as people have seen this on Instagram, you know, you're the one in your lineage that's here to break it. You are. You are the one in your lineage that's here to break it if you're doing this work. And we're at a time on this planet where, we're at a time on this planet where, that has really become the work, you know, going back. And for me, it's very clear that there's a lot of work with the women and the men in my lineage, but really the women going back and, you know, helping clear out some of that stuff that I hold in my muscles for them and doing it by

Starting point is 00:23:01 deconstructing my belief systems that I've inherited and really kind of still holding that space for, you know, the parts of me that were in pain or the, or the things that have happened that really hurt me. I'm not trying to get rid of those things. I want to hold those things. I want to love those things. I want to accept those things. And then I want to change my relationship with those things, especially by making those parts of me feel safe enough to let me hold them. So that's really the work that we do. We don't just sit and talk and talk and talk. It becomes very intuitive and it becomes very quantum and it becomes very body-oriented because it's all connected. That's an awesome answer. Thank you. It makes me think about the observer effect. It's one

Starting point is 00:23:54 thing to sit and listen. It's one thing for an individual to sit somewhere and sometimes you can do the medicine work by yourself. Maybe it's recreational, but it's one thing to sit there and go over some of your own ideas and try to come up with your own solutions to your problems and rethink things and maybe sneak up on an idea without shame or guilt. And you can relieve some tension that way. It's another thing to sit down and talk to somebody. But it seems to me there's a radical effect when other people are observing you. And I don't know a whole lot about it.

Starting point is 00:24:21 Usually if I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it all alone. I don't know a whole lot about ceremony or rituals or rights of passage. Maybe you could speak to the difference between maybe tripping or working on your problems yourself, doing some medicine work on yourself versus being with one individual versus being in a group of people. What are some similarities and differences there? I'm going to hold on to what you just said, but I just really want to quickly say, I think it's like a law of physics that something changes just by being observed. Schrodinger's cat.

Starting point is 00:24:55 What? Schrodinger's cat. That's when they put the cyanide in the box with the cat. Yeah. Dead, not dead, 50-50, right? But yeah, it is connected to Schrodinger's cat. And so, yes, absolutely being observed is very important because the universe just wants to experience itself through all of us.

Starting point is 00:25:23 And if you're in a vacuum, this experience is not being witnessed. And so it doesn't really have a place to be heard and seen, right? So part of the universe wanting to experience itself is wanting to witness itself. So if I'm witnessing you, it's the experience of the universe witnessing another part of itself because the universe wants to know itself through creation. So I have taken, I did a summer of psychedelics by myself. And it was very interesting because I went in it to have some fun and explore and really like create, you know, a relationship with the medicine.

Starting point is 00:26:07 And what ended up happening a couple of times is that I called my mom crying and saying, please come be with me. I'm tripping. And I don't want to be to myself. Awesome. And, you know, yeah, I think maybe I was just not prepared for that. But it's the funny thing is like when you accidentally have this like spiritual experience when you're just trying to be recreational.

Starting point is 00:26:32 Because at the end of the day, the medicine decides what experience it's going to give you. I've used this example so many times, but the medicine's like a DJ. You know, you can make your requests, you know, and it will, it may play your song, but if it's like, no, that's not the vibe of the night. We're not doing that.

Starting point is 00:26:48 It's not going to do it. It's going to play the song that's right for the room. So, yes, I think, like, you know, taking medicine by yourself can be very valuable, you know, but there's, my advice would be put away your phone. don't text people. Right. You know, like I don't recommend journaling because it puts you in your mind.

Starting point is 00:27:10 But if you have to text someone something, write it down on a piece of paper. Make sure that you have one emergency person to call. You know, I called my mom. She didn't know she was my emergency person, but God bless her, she showed up. And make sure that, you know, you're not in your bodies of water. You know, just basic stuff like that. I love one-on-one work. I love one-on-one work. I personally do not like sitting in medicine circles. The reason I don't like sitting in medicine circles is because I tend to absorb other people's stuff. And also, I have been kicked out of ayahuasca circles for being too loud. And it's not something I'm doing on purpose. But as I'm being carried out of the room, I'm like, oh, man. I did it again.

Starting point is 00:28:03 I don't want to be that person. But the advantage of being with another human being, again, is being witnessed because the psychedelics, and particularly MDMA, can take you into a very young state. And that's such a beautiful opportunity for having a reparative experience, being that porous, that open, that vulnerable, with that much plasticity in your nervous system that you haven't had since you were a kid. And having someone put their hand on your shoulder and saying you're doing great, it's extremely healing.

Starting point is 00:28:41 And as far as the groups are concerned, maybe they're not for me, but the advantage for the groups are community because we're really meant to be in community. And being in community in that context, being vulnerable with other people, really taking the elevator down into the nitty gritty of like being a human being, instead of being with a group of people at a party, doing small talk, you know, what do you do for a living? And, you know, like, how is the summer? How's the weather? God, such a nightmare for me.

Starting point is 00:29:09 So I think that's part of what really attracted me to psychedelics. It's like, can we just really talk about death, you know, that we're all going to die? Can we talk about heartbreak, love, joy, how incredible nature is? Like, these are the conversations I want to have. And it's also what attracted me to being a death dula because death is very psychedelic. It's another time where people are not interested in small talk. They are really, and I'm having chills, they're surveying their life. And they want to talk about all the most important things.

Starting point is 00:29:45 And it comes down to relationship and connection and love. So those are the spaces in which I feel the most comfortable. and I'm interested in being around other people to feel comfortable in those spaces. George, I feel like you're one of those people. Thank you. So much of what you said resonates with me. I'm fascinated by death. I think about it a lot.

Starting point is 00:30:12 Sometimes I wake up like, I'm going to die. I'm going to scare myself. Like, holy shit, I'm going to die, but he's in. I'm like, oh, okay, what does that mean? You know, and I can't, there's that old quote that says, like, fate loves it. irony and like I can't you know I've had like my son died like I've like my son died that was a huge turning point for me when he died like that sort of began this sort of romance with death and this way in which you can see it as as a sacrifice as something that's dangerously beautiful you know and like

Starting point is 00:30:47 when you start talking about someone that you loved died as being a blessing people back away from you like this person's out of their fucking mind what do you mean that's a blessing what do you mean that's a blessing. Did that person, I thought you loved them. What do you mean it's the greatest thing ever know. And you're like, okay, I'm different. Okay, okay, I should be careful about this conversation. And, you know, it just, it oozes out of your pores. But I think about it all the time. And sometimes I feel like I attract it. You know, I know people in my life right now that are suffering from like almost stage four breast cancer. And it's like, holy shit, why am I? I'm here with them. Like, I should, I should be doing something.

Starting point is 00:31:25 way more meaningful than, you know, talking about buying a Tesla or going to Costco. Like, there's so much life we can live in a moment if we're willing to be open and do it. Like, and the truth is, like, you're right. We're all going to die. Some of us sooner than others. And you never know. You never know. And the more that I talk about it, the more that I meet people who are like, hey, thanks for saying that.

Starting point is 00:31:48 Like, my uncle just died or my niece overdosed, you know. And it's like, this is the one thing that we really all have. in common and we spend so much time being distracted so much time worrying about what we have what we need versus like am i really being present with these people right now like how how can i enjoy my time with them what can i do this meaningful with them and i i want that rome like we are kindred spirits i i was literally about to say we are friends now i feel you know i definitely Definitely my condolences because I know that's painful. And I think part of enlightenment is having a beautiful relationship with death.

Starting point is 00:32:36 Because the more you reject death, the more you end up rejecting life. And what you're describing that your son may have given you is deathbed perspective, where you're thinking about death every single day, but it's giving you the gift of, oh, I have a limited amount of time on this planet and with the people I love. And then moving accordingly. So our relationship to death is proportionate to our relationship to living. And I've had chills so many times during our conversation. And really understanding, and you're right, not a lot of people are ready for this conversation,

Starting point is 00:33:17 especially in Western culture, you know, that, first of all, we've been dead before. we were dead before we got here. And we're fine with it. We don't remember. We died when we were born, right? Being born is death. And I often think about that light at the end of the tunnel that people see when they die. Is it the opening of the vagina?

Starting point is 00:33:45 Are we about to go through it again and again and again? The thing is this. When I talk about the lasagna of time, everything that's always happened will have always happened. Once you're born and you're on this planet and you have been loved and you have loved, you will never die even when your physical body is gone. Anytime someone tells a story about you, anytime someone cries for you, anytime someone laughs at something dumb you did when you were here, you know, anytime someone listens to a song that reminds them of you. You know, you don't even need to have children in order to go on and on and on. Right.

Starting point is 00:34:27 You live through other people's hearts and minds forever. And in some ways, you know, I don't know what it's like to lose a child and I know it's the hardest thing in the world. But I've lost people I love. And I just feel myself absorbing them into myself even deeper. They're even more present because, you know, the stupid shit in life, like, oh, you did this thing that annoyed me or you're with this other person. or this is that it all disappears it all dissolves into love and i miss you and i'm so glad that i got to meet you while you were here and i'll have that in me forever and i'll carry that on my head like a crown for the rest of my life yeah it's interesting like i you see it seems like so many people chase this

Starting point is 00:35:26 idea of legacy but the real legacy is in your relationships right like and you said it so well where if you can influence someone's heart and mind in a way that makes them see the world a little bit better, like that's how you live forever. Like that, that's immortality. You know, we chase these ideas of the elixir of immortality or youth in a bottle. But the truth is just,

Starting point is 00:35:52 I don't know, creating a path for someone to think about you in times of tragedy. Like, oh, you know, I remember that thing Rome's that. You know, and then I'm like, I'm calling you down from the heavens,

Starting point is 00:36:01 even when you're gone, like you're hanging out with me. Yeah, and love is eternal. And you just made me think of Mike Tyson when you were talking about legacy. Did you see that interview he gave? I didn't see it, no, what do you say? So this is hilarious, and I'm going to send you this clip. And to your listeners, I implore you to look up this clip. There's this little girl, you know, he fought Jake Paul.

Starting point is 00:36:25 He lost. Some people say it was rigged. Some people don't. It doesn't matter. but this little girl was interviewing Mike Tyson before the fight and she's like nine years old and she's like we know uh how is this fight going to affect your legacy and Mike Tyson looks at her he's like I don't give a fuck about my legacy he's like legacy's not real it's just something people invented we're all going to die we're all dust nothing matters and this nine-year-old girl

Starting point is 00:36:54 it's like oh okay I don't know what to say she handled it really well he's like the only legacy that matters is for me to my children, basically. I thought it was a really interesting answer of a man who has clearly done a lot of psychedelics and is very comfortable with the impermanence of all of this and that there's something so much bigger than legacy. And yet, the only I will add in the legacy that matters is the love you leave behind. You know, the things you did. If they help people, that's wonderful. Yes, you're affecting people. You know, you're creating a fractal in the world. Your presence is creating a fractal in the world.

Starting point is 00:37:33 But the only true legacy is love. And I really, I love Mike Tyson for that. Yeah. His trajectory is such an amazing thing to watch, arguably the greatest heavyweight of all times. And then he's got such great insight. Like everybody's got a plan until you get punched in the face. Like the guy, you know,

Starting point is 00:37:54 and then you see his whole trajectory. You can see his use of psychedelics. And then all of a sudden, everything begins to change. He starts becoming like this philosopher on some level. Yes. It's interesting. Mike Tyson. I know, right?

Starting point is 00:38:08 Not on the bingo card when like the 80s. Like he, you thought like everyone thought he was this dumb guy, right? Yeah. But it's very clear that the psychedelics have chosen him to be a representative. That's part of the trajectory. And the boxing was all part of it too. I always say your life before you do this type of work is part of this work, ends up being part of it. And so, you know, like for me, I was in the entertainment business for a while.

Starting point is 00:38:38 So I got very comfortable speaking on camera, right? I didn't know back then that that was my preparation to speak about this work with people. I didn't know that back then. I know people that were in the corporate world, you know, that have come to mycology, psychology. and, you know, now they're holding the space and they're doing the thing, but they can kind of help with back-end stuff too. You know, the medicine is very creative on who they invite onto the ship, and they kind of harken back to the previous experience, like, oh, that would be a good person for this role. That would be a good person for that role. And it's called your second mountain.

Starting point is 00:39:17 Your first mountain is your first life. It's kind of like accumulating the car or the home, or like just having the job and getting the paycheck. And your second mountain is your life's purpose of being of service to humanity, to others, to the people, most importantly in your home and in your inner circle, because that's where it really starts. And the first mountain can always help you with the second mountain. So, yeah, Mike Tyson's had two very interesting mountains. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:39:50 It's a great point. Let's see. What is our friend, our friend Clint says, I've never shared this because it sounds kind of crazy. I don't enjoy funerals, but I enjoy attending them. I would, I, I completely understand that. I completely, you know, I have an uncle that loves funerals. He will show up to every few, even if it was an acquaintance, he'll be there.

Starting point is 00:40:16 And I don't know, I don't know what this person's reasoning is. don't have a name. I'm so sorry. But the reason I believe for my uncle is that he's around people in a very open state and there's no small talk. It's just peaceful and solemn. And that's his reason. I don't think that's abnormal at all. But I'm not a normal person and neither is George. So you've come to the right place. Yeah. Neither is Clint. Thank you, Clint, for chime in. in here. And do you see, like, we've talked a little bit about death and, you know, you are a certified death doula. And right now with psychedelics, we're beginning to see people do end of life therapy. Do you envision a time when maybe we sort of take back the dignity in dying and people

Starting point is 00:41:10 can choose to go out and like, what are your thoughts? You see this sort of happening in a new way. Like we're going to maybe reestablish a relationship with death. It's more positive. Don't even get me started. I'm getting at me started. First of all, we're heading towards a very big tilt in our population, where it's going to be all old people. Like, people are going to be dying en masse, and we don't have the infrastructure for that, right?

Starting point is 00:41:38 We definitely don't have the infrastructure for compassionate deaths, even now. You know, first of all, people are being kept alive too long. And, you know, it has to do with the cultural imprint of death is bad. That's the first layer of it. Death is bad. Don't let grandma die at any cost, literally at any cost because it's very expensive. And that's the second piece. Don't let grandma die.

Starting point is 00:42:09 She has dementia. She's in an old age home. She's crying every day. They're medicating her. She doesn't know where she is. We don't feel like visiting her anymore. It's too sad. Right. And these emotions and these belief systems are preyed upon for profit.

Starting point is 00:42:26 Because you can make really good money keeping someone alive. And then the final thing is the funeral. We can make good money on death, but that's finite. You know, we can only make money on the funeral after that. That's that. The plot's been sold. The coffin's been sold. The funeral's been had.

Starting point is 00:42:43 That's it. We can no longer make money on this person. So really shifting. our relationship to death in Western culture is the first step of, you know, it's natural part of life and actually should be celebrated that you have come here to complete your contract. You did well. You've affected people in many ways. Even if you've affected people negatively, good job, because you came here to teach. You came here to teach people how to sit with forgiveness. you know, how to sit with darkness. You've offered lessons. If you're a person that's disproportionately affected people in a positive way, that's also obviously wonderful, right? You did it. You can rest now. And then the living, we need to get comfortable with impermanence.

Starting point is 00:43:38 You know, trust life, trust death, trust the universe. And know that missing someone means that we have deeply loved. And what a gift that we were able to deeply love. And yes, it fucking hurts regardless. I'm not saying it doesn't. You know, I will never be so enlightened that I don't care that the people around me are dying. But it's my relationship to the grief of like, yeah, crack my heart open. Grief cracks your heart open and really brings you back down to what's important in life. So really understanding that as a society. Second, allowing people dignity, you know, there's a big difference between euthanasia and suicide. You know, again, going back to grandma in that home, I was having this conversation with someone where it's like, okay, you know, maybe a dignified gentle exit would be appropriate in this context.

Starting point is 00:44:35 I have a friend who, you know, he has a disease of the cerebellum. His body is very drunk, right? but his mind is very sharp. And as a result, his mobility is very affected. He falls over a lot. And he's like a few falls away from being hospitalized. And it's his biggest fear, maybe even one fall. It's his biggest fear to go into that system. He doesn't want it.

Starting point is 00:45:01 So we discussed how he wants to have a dignified, graceful exit before his next fall because he doesn't want to risk being in a hospital. you know and he's already like his body is is giving out on him and how difficult it has been to arrange this for him it's been very difficult we tried and what he wants is not allowed what he wants is not allowed so he feels disempowered um you know um another thing is the way we treat our elderly and that of course young people die but the way we treat them, we dispose them. I think that really needs to change, especially with what's coming, seeing them for the vessels of wisdom that they are. And if they no longer have that wisdom due to dementia or Alzheimer's, knowing that that person is still in there, you know, and deserves dignity and love. But the problem is this. We no longer live in tribes and villages, where everyone helps each other raise their children,

Starting point is 00:46:12 where everybody helps each other cook, where everybody helps each other with the grief, you know. And because we live in such an individualistic society in our boxes next to each other, you know, everyone is so individually overwhelmed that we get compassion fatigue. So these are the many aspects of what needs to change around death.

Starting point is 00:46:38 And really, really, really, the root of all of it, at the root of all of it, knowing that we are one, that no one has really gone anywhere. We're just in a lasagna. And that love is eternal. And we will see them again. We will see them again. And if you're atheist and you don't believe that, you know, I don't know how to speak to that. I used to be atheist. And I was very proud of being an atheist. And for me, that just changed. And it's made my life richer and better. And if I'm wrong, you know, about what's out there and I die and there's nothingness,

Starting point is 00:47:21 I won't even know I'm wrong. I'll just know that I had an easier life because I really deeply believe these things. But I have to say it's I don't even believe them. I know them in my heart. You know, I had a discussion with someone last night about God. You know, like there was a Swami that took on a student because the student said, I don't know if God exists. And that was like such a wise thing to say.

Starting point is 00:47:45 But I do know God exists for me because even if we're in a simulation, the simulation is God. I have a very broad definition of God. So it makes it easy for me to believe in God. It's not just a man in the sky with a beard. And I think like broadening your definitions can be really helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. There's something healing or there's something that happens when you realize you're bigger than just who you are.

Starting point is 00:48:21 When you realize you're part of a whole system. And that's one of the reasons I love psychedelic work so much is that there's this embodiment there. Like sometimes under whatever dose works for you, you can look out. and realize like the planet's talking to you. It's speaking a language if you're just willing to tune into it. Like, oh, look at this little ecosystem under the tree. Like, it's all feeding each other. It's like, it's divine.

Starting point is 00:48:47 This is a plan right here. And if this is a plan for this particular area, then there's a plan for me. Maybe all of these things are making sense in some way. And it really allows you to, you know, it really allows you to see your place in the world as something that is divine and beautiful and necessary. And that allows you to free up some of that anxiety or that depression or that emotion

Starting point is 00:49:12 on some level. What do you think about a divine language that the planet's trying to communicate with us? Yeah. I think there's a saying and I'm going to butcher it. And I can't even remember who said it. But it's like not nature that is mute. It's us that's deaf. You know, something like that.

Starting point is 00:49:29 But, you know, you take like some mushrooms and you stare at some trees. And like you can see. the tree's breathing and you can like see the story in each tree. I saw this one tree forge where I saw like ancient animals and people like a recording of everything the tree has ever seen. It was showing me. And I was like, oh, these trees have memories. These trees are sentient. These trees are speaking to me. These trees are breathing. And then it was a another tree next to it. It was a lemon tree. And the tree said, come, have a lemon. And I was like, what?

Starting point is 00:50:12 You're going to give me a lemon for free? Like, what do you need in return? And the tree was like, stop drinking out of plastic bottles. You're like, other than that, I don't want anything. Take as many lemons as you want. I love you. I'm here to give. And I just started crying.

Starting point is 00:50:34 Again, I was humbled. I was humbled that, like, the earth just, gives and gives and gives and gives and we're like do do do do do do do like throwing our cigarettes out the car door right like it's it's humbling and you see how interconnected everything is and that there's so much wisdom and all the animals start showing up and you start connecting these dots and you're like of course there's a higher intelligence happening it is i think one of the most egotistical things is to be like no there's nothing look like open your eyes and look and you will see, you know, and again, you know, if, if I'm wrong,

Starting point is 00:51:15 if all of this is wrong, who cares? Who cares? I enjoy living in the intelligence and the mystery of nature and when a bird shows up. I know that it means something. I enjoy living my life like that. I enjoy knowing that my ancestors have my back. I enjoy knowing that the people who have passed on are part of me forever and the love is eternal. You know, and for someone who came from my background, that's pretty awesome. And I want to go even deeper because the deeper I go, the more I can connect to other people and the more I can see other people and just be part of this oneness. You know, they say that the universe like fractaled out into billions and billions and billions

Starting point is 00:52:00 of pieces so that these pieces can interact with each other so that the universe can experience itself. And sometimes through war, sometimes through death, sometimes through famine, sometimes through love, through birth, through joy. It's all part of it. It's all part of this human experience. And we will understand why when we have passed on. We'll be like, oh, and also how hilarious was that whole thing called life. That was hilarious. And I had no idea how funny it was. I get a very strong sense that that's something that's waiting on the other side. Yeah, a sense of humor, the cosmic joke. It's interesting to think about that.

Starting point is 00:52:41 And you can find the humor everywhere if you're willing to be honest and have a good laugh. I think it was Alan Watts in one of his lectures where he was talking about Satori. And he's like, you know, they say that when you finally achieve Satori, the last thing to do is have a good laugh. So I think it goes your sentiment. Yeah, yeah. And I love Al. Alan Watts. I know. I very much enjoy Alan Watts. Of course you brought up Ellen Watts. And you know, like there are tools for us. And I've said this on the podcast before where it's like, yes,

Starting point is 00:53:17 there's loss, there's death, there's taxes. Don't get me started on taxes. There's, you know, heartbreak, there's disappointment, there's betrayal. There's also medicine. There's also puppies. There's also music. There's also kittens. You know, the balance is there if we allow it to happen. You know, there's a lot, a lot of good to help us through the tough times. And the medicine has been a very valuable ally. And the fact that these keys grow out of the ground to unlock things, they can only end up, bloop. It's out of the ground key. It's like a video game. And you can use this key to unlock to the next level is magical. It's magnificent. It's by design. And of course, you know, there are people that don't want us to have access to our birthright, to our God-given

Starting point is 00:54:15 right to utilize these things from nature to connect to the universe and to our own hearts. Because, again, it comes down to profit. You know, and I am very aware that that, that I have a for-profit company, but it's very cheap in the long run when you think about the medical bills, the hospital bills, that you're gonna save yourself by doing your healing work. And the fact that you are preparing,

Starting point is 00:54:48 all of this is to prepare for your death because a successful death is a reflection of a successful life. It's like all's well that ends well, right? To be at the end of life, knowing you have dealt with your stuff, you know, and really, really dove in to your shadows and corrected your mistakes and learned your lessons, I imagine that that would bring a peaceful death. I've seen that the people who have the hardest time dying is the people that never wanted

Starting point is 00:55:21 to face themselves. And that's just something that I am not on board for. I'm really looking forward. Of course, accidents happen. You never know. You don't have control over anything. But, you know, my goal is to prepare for a death where I can exhale and know that I have done everything that I can do to be a better person to face myself and to have faith in life. Yeah, I don't think anybody's ever saying on their deathbed.

Starting point is 00:55:50 I wish I would have worked more hours or I wish I would have. You know, no one's saying, I wish I would put it more overtime. It seems to me it's like I wish I would have been a better father. I wish I'd have been a better mother, better husband, a better brother, better sister. There's research around this. Also, like, definitely not. I wish I argued with more people on the internet. Right, right.

Starting point is 00:56:09 You know, like there was a meme I saw about that. I was like, that's hilarious. It's like all the hours when, like, Facebook was first around. I was like, no, no, no, nah, nah, nah. Like, oh, my God. Like, I look back on my old Facebook and I cringe. And I invite everyone else to do that, too. because if you're not cringing on some level about your past self, have you really grown?

Starting point is 00:56:31 Yeah. You know what I mean? Like a little bit. You know, and the thing about psychedelics and death is this. Just an anecdotal piece of information. The people who are dying that you serve buffo to completely surrender. Like, it's easy. I have heard someone say this is better than morphine.

Starting point is 00:56:55 because the ego is now dissolving at the end of life, right? And so there's less need to protect yourself. Is this going to kill me? Am I safe? What's going to come up? You know, it's, especially if you're dying and you're doing this type of work, you know, it seems like peanut butter and jelly, psychedelics in death, you know, right context. Again, not saying psychedelics are for everybody.

Starting point is 00:57:23 There's nothing on this planet that's for everybody. But I do believe it's like peanut butter and jelly sandwich. It really goes together because it's learning to die before you die. And that's what psychedelics can help you with. Yeah, it's a beautiful point. Romeo, you've been incredibly gracious with your time. We're walking right up to that, right up to that magical point that I told you we would go to. And we have a little bit of time left.

Starting point is 00:57:50 I was hopeful that maybe you could tell people if they were where they can find you, what you have coming up and what you're excited about. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that invitation. So I have a company called Mycology Psychology. We are a microdosing and integration company. We're a collective. We have community calls, the second Saturday of every month, for those who are curious. You can find us on Instagram at Mycology Psychology. And please follow our backup page because Meta is being very weird to mushroom people.

Starting point is 00:58:26 Go to our website, www.machypsychology.com to learn more. Sign up for our newsletter where we share wisdom from the mushroom two times a month. You know, and yeah, like just we're going to do more community calls because we're seeing that the community calls are really helpful for people. You know, and we really, really believe that, you know, the preparation is. even more important than the integration because in the psychedelic community, people are constantly talking about integration, integration, integrate, integrate, integrate. But preparation is the primer. And, you know, particularly with microdosing, because it's so subtle, it's really helpful to have someone to prime with. And so our consult is free. We don't charge for that. We just want to give you

Starting point is 00:59:20 the tools on your microdosing journey so that you kind of like have the bike so that you can pedal and move forward. You know, really quick story about why prep is important. Well, actually, this is more integration. But, you know, being able to explain to somebody, the microdosing is not just a mood enhancer is really important because expectations also a primer. That, like, anger might come up.

Starting point is 00:59:48 Sadness may come up. But the difference is this. Suddenly you're able to feel these emotions without looping in your mind, without perseverating. It's the looping that makes us feel stuck. You know, back to your earlier question, like, how do you process these things? They cannot be processed with the mind. The mind is trying to keep you safe from the feelings that you're holding in your heart and your body. That's the mind's job. It's an overprotective parent. It's a little bit misguided sometimes, right? It just wants to keep you safe. It does not care about you being happy. Okay. So when you're microdosing, it can

Starting point is 01:00:23 drop you a little bit from the mind into the heart and the body and you can feel these emotions from an observer standpoint without perseverating and go through it in a linear way instead of in a spiral which keeps you stuck in this wheel of samsara and of course you know with the larger medicine journeys those are extremely valuable as well if anybody has any questions you can email me at Rome at Mycology Psychology.com. I really enjoyed talking to you, George. Thank you. Likewise.

Starting point is 01:00:59 It's an awesome conversation. Hang on briefly afterwards. I know you got to go, but I talk to briefly afterwards. Everybody within the sound of my voice, go down to the show notes, check out Rome's page, reach out to her,

Starting point is 01:01:10 get on that community call. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to reach out. That's all we got, ladies and gentlemen. I hope you have a beautiful weekend. Alo.

TrueLife - Rome Shadanloo - Razors & Roses

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