TrueLife - Sienna Terranova - Healing is Contagious

Episode Date: September 14, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/I am a multidisciplinary facilitator passionate about sacred ceremony, neuroscience, and proven methods for healing mind, body, and spirit.My team & I bring extensive expertise in preparation and integration coaching, protocols for safe administration, use of psilocybin for trauma resolution, neural wellness and facilitation skills for safe and effective journeys.We acknowledge the global community of predecessors, ancestors, and traditions that have used plant medicines since the beginning of time for ceremony, healing, and spiritual development. We respect the knowledge and wisdom accumulated by these earth-centered traditions and honor these traditional pathways as meaningful mechanisms for awakening higher awareness.With this as our foundation, we weave the latest research, clinical insights, and best practices from western cultures into our practice to cultivate a truly holistic approach for those seeking enhanced consciousness, personal healing, spiritual development, and support for superior self-care, with services which include:•Clinical Counseling•Professional coaching•Holistic neurowellness evaluations•Psychedelic preparation, journey guides, and integration sessions•Individual, couple, and group sessions in retreat settings•Microdose coaching programs and custom protocols•Community education, training seminars, facilitator training programsIt is our deepest honor to provide the tools and the space for you to come in to your power & purpose.http://linkedin.com/in/sienna-terranova-664188260 One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Fearers through ruins maze lights my war cry born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Kodak Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody has found someone to love, something to do, and something to look forward to. We live in such transformative times. And if you just take a moment to look around, you'll see the beauty unfolding around you. And you can understand that you're part of that beauty.

And a big part of that beauty that most people may not understand is some of the new ways in which we are going to treat addiction in this country. It's fundamentally changing. And I'm bringing to you an interesting, incredible, fascinating individual who's been part of that change. We're going to learn about her story, what makes her go, what inspires her. and what are some of the things she sees on the horizon. The one and only, Siena Terra Nova, she's a multi-disinoplary facilitator, passionate about ceremony, neuroscience,

and proven methods for healing, mind, body, and spirit. She has extensive expertise in the... I'm sorry, she has extensive expertise in integration, the protocols for administering the use of psilocybin for trauma resolution, neural wellness. you may have seen her on the episode I did with Mokshah journeys. Today we're going to talk about the medicine, the movement, the magic of psilocybin, and of course the future. And we're going to learn a lot about Sienna today.

So Sienna, how's it going? How are you feeling and where are you at? Thank you so much for having me once again, George. It's such a pleasure to be here in this space with you and with your incredible dynamic audience. I am on site at the nation's very first 28-day psilocybin-assisted recovery program, which I have the tremendous honor of working with the incredibly amazing team at Moxha Journeys, who, as you mentioned, you recently interviewed. It's an incredible team bringing forward an incredible vision. You know, we are coming at recovery from the position of you come, you recover, you don't relapse, you go forward, you have a beautiful life. We're coming at that from a therapeutic perspective in terms of traditional psychotherapy, psilocybin assisted therapy, neuroscience, nutritional reform, just a holistic approach bringing together so many beautiful.

aspects of spirit and science to be able to create a true transformation that is a lifelong transformation. It's an incredible honor to say the least, privilege, gift, miracle manifest here in the great state of Oregon. It's such an amazing time to be alive. And for so long, We have had this model of addiction that seems to echo the way we live our lives. In some ways, it seems like the problem of addiction is a symptom of our society and the way we're living. And maybe you can talk, before we start digging into some of these really deep issues that could be at the heart of so much of our problems, I would love to learn more about you, see you. You have an incredible background. And I'm sure the path to where you are today was filled with some twists and turns.

So maybe you can take us back to one of those twists and turns and let us know how you've got to be where you are. Oh, it has been a long journey with many twists and turns and, you know, roundabouts and dead ends and beautiful panoramas. I, July 18th, 1982, a star was born. I was born and raised in a rural mountain community in Trinity County. I spent a lot of my early childhood in Humboldent, Trinity County at kind of the peak of the boots on the ground wore on drugs in terms of cannabis farming. So it was a wild time to come up and to be alive, you know. And there was a lot of beauty in that experience and there was a lot of pain as well. You know, there were a lot of people who were working hard and loving their families.

And there was a lot of addiction and violence and trauma, you know, that we were experiencing on an individual level. and as a community, as a collective that was kind of coming from within the community, within the family, and within the broader structure of law enforcement. You know, it was a tumultuous time, to say the least. So I grew up differently. You know, we didn't have electricity, for example, or indoor plumbing. you know, my early childhood didn't exist with any, you know, media, let alone social media. You know, it's just an entirely different existence.

When I started high school, I met my father shortly before. I came to live with my father and my stepmother in the Bay Area. and it was like a complete culture shock doesn't quite say it. You know, it was like being reborn on a new planet, you know, with no reference points for anything, you know. So it was a interesting space to navigate my adolescence. You know, I was immediately. put into a lot of different types of traditional therapy, which was appropriate, and learned how to live in this new world, you know, from all different perspectives. Socially, academically, you know, there were a lot of things to learn, beginning with just regular pop culture references, you know, that become a really important part of day-to-day life.

especially as a teenager, and then expanding out from there into bigger and ultimately more important things, you know, how to exist in a world that isn't based in violence, for example, is a good starting place, you know. So I'm grateful for all aspects of that story. And also, ultimately, I turn to substances like many people do, you know. And when I went away to college, then suddenly the dynamic shifted again. You know, there was no oversight. No one was telling me where to be and what time to come home or checking in, you know, and with this newfound freedom, I'll tell you what, I exploited it to the max.

Yeah, it was until it wasn't. I have a lot of addiction in my family and in my genetics, and it came very naturally to me. It was a perfect storm of circumstances. ultimately I was arrested with one pound of cannabis but this was of course back in the old days you know so one pound of cannabis was like sound the alarm bells this is this big time trouble you know ultimately that ended up being a huge blessing. You know, I was court ordered into treatment and I then got to experience what a traditional treatment model looks like. I went to treatment and there

were good things and there were very challenging things. Quickly, the court and the very good therapists that were available at that treatment center appropriately decided that what would instead serve me would be an extended period of kind of psychological rehabilitation for complex post-traumatic stress disorder. And so I did that for a while, three years. And it was great. You know, I learned a lot of things about myself. I learned a lot of of tools, you know, a lot of different ways to regulate my mood and my behavior. And it was beautiful, you know, and it kind of culminated in about like 13 years of therapy altogether, you know. And that was really beautiful and powerful for me. And also I was left kind of, you

not fully recovered, you know, and so I started seeking other avenues for finding my authentic self, for finding my truth, for finding my purpose and my passion and my true recovery. And that led me down a spiritual path, you know, and one thing led to another. And eventually I became a reverend. And I became a community leader. And that was a whole other level of healing, you know, because then we start healing through our healing work for others. And that was a powerful time.

You know, during that time, I really came to understand the depth of beauty and the depth of suffering that exists in so many people. And when it really gets distilled down, You know, people come from all different perspectives, all different life experiences and walks of life and ways that they move through this world. And yet, really, when it all comes down to it, we're pretty similar people, you know. And that was a very powerful time. Very powerful revelations came from my service through that church, but ultimately the community that was called there. So within that framework, I began seeing a lot of people individually, you know, seeing them for counseling purposes and coaching.

And that was wonderful, again, until it wasn't, right? Until I started to recognize that people weren't really progressing. You know, they'd progress a certain amount and then they would get stuck. And I was stuck too, you know, and that led me down the path of exploring psilocybin and exploring how psilocybin could open the doors, you know, open the doors that we keep locked. Even when we think we've unlocked all the doors, no, no, no, no. There's mysterious caverns yet to be explored. you know, and that was just absolutely transformational for me.

You know, that's when I really, really hit my recovery, my true, true recovery. And so over time, you know, I started working with other people, other people that I'd been seeing for many years, knew their story, you know, and coming to the medicine with strong intention, strong preparation, you know, and having these transformative experiences and then guiding them through integrating those experiences. We didn't have that language back then. You know, this was in the old days. Nowadays, we all know preparation, intention, integration, but back then, you know, we're just sort of, I was figuring it out as we went along, you know.

But through that process, suddenly people were able to really step into that authenticity, really step into healing and transform their lives and transform the lives of their families and transform the lives of their community members and become a beacon for others to find their own healing, to find their own way. And that's how it goes, right? it becomes, it's just the ripple effect becomes a wave. And then suddenly, you know, it's here we are. Here we are.

Legal psilocybin services, 28-day recovery program, true transformational, fundamental recovery in every way, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually, physically. We get to go forward, born again. I like that term born again. Like, in some ways, it means so much to so many different scriptures, and it means so much to every person. The people that choose to contemplate it can give it meaning in ways they want to. But just in your story alone, I see this magnificent transformation of being born again, time and time again, and each time, a new mission, a new lesson to be learned. And it's fascinating to see the progression or get to hear about the progression.

and maybe we can talk a little bit more about what was it like to go from healing, having all these different modalities of healing, from being a person that was addicted to going through this type of therapy, to then becoming someone that helps other people. I think that there's something there. Like you have a really incredible way of seeing patterns. And when I hear you describe your life, it's because you've been through these patterns.

And I wanted to just to take another moment. for you to express the jump from healing yourself and the healing that comes from helping other people. Maybe we can jump back to that part of your life. Well, I want to first say that I am so deeply grateful for the healing that comes from healing other people, right? And I want to be clear that I am not healing other people. I am here to hold the space and to be. bear witness for and to love unconditionally the process of individuals healing themselves

in relationship with the medicine. And that is an incredible gift. It's an incredible gift that I cherish. Every single individual who has put their faith into themselves and into me and into the medicine and that I have had the opportunity to be there, to bear that witness, has taught me something new about myself, you know, has given me a new depth of healing for myself, as perhaps revealed parts of myself that still need to be worked on, that still need to be healed, you know? I mean, that's the real crux of healing, right?

It's that it's an evolutionary process. It's never fully done. And in my opinion, you know, I am dedicated to staying humble to the healing process and to staying keenly aware that there are always things to be revealed to me about myself, about my healing journey. So let's see. To further answer your question, the transition from healing. myself to healing others, you know, I can see the similarities in my story with others who are

suffering. I can see it, right? And I've had the privilege by virtue of my life's experiences to have understood life from so many different perspectives, you know, to have watched and sat with and loved unconditionally many different people from many different walks of life trying to navigate it, right? Trying to survive, trying to thrive, trying to be a good member to their family, you know, struggling, falling off, making mistakes, learning, not learning. And all of those different experiences have left me with. a perspective that allows me to be able to understand and connect with almost anybody.

You know, I have some shades, as we all do. You know, we think we're separate. We think we're, you know, this one special thing or this person has, you know, all of the knowledge or they have special sacred secrets that I don't have or, you know, they have more money or they have more this, they've been there, they've da-da-da-da. When it really all comes down to it, you know, we're all very similar and we all have, we all have the power. We all have the ability and it's available to us here and now just as we just have to allow that to unfold for ourselves and to step out of our own way. And we end up blocking ourselves in all different

kinds of ways, the way we speak to ourselves, you know, the stories we tell ourselves. And that right there is a, that's a real major turning point for a lot of people is changing our story, you know, really changing it, changing the way we speak to ourselves in the back of our minds, changing the projections that we're playing out in our mind. You know, so often we're catastrophes. the future, we're lamenting the past, you know, we're romanticizing things that are long gone or have not yet come to be and spending very little time being keenly aware of what is here and now in this present moment. When people can start to identify that for themselves, that's a big change. That's a big game changer.

That's, it's really well said. I'm often, reminded of language and a lot for myself and a lot of the people with whom I've spoken who have seen big changes in their life it does come from the stories they tell themselves the language we use in our daily life is usually the same language we play inside of our heads and for me it was this language of being really hard on other people having these judgments and I realized that I had those judgments for myself and when you when you stop talking to yourself in this ignorant way, you free yourself to see the world in a different way. And it's really difficult to change these patterns sometimes.

We've been conditioned for so long. And it's almost like a cloud is with us this whole time. And it's, I think one of the reasons why people who are successful at what you do is because they've taken the time to learn from the mistakes in their life. And they've taken the time to understand that they themselves are not the healer, but they're just, they're with the people who are healing. There's a big difference right there.

I love the way you describe that. Maybe you could talk a little bit more about this idea of language and patterns and how they work together. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And I appreciate you sharing, you know, your process of identifying that in yourself. Yeah, it's critically important, you know, know, and it feeds into core beliefs that we hold about ourselves, you know, or that we hold about the world. And those are subtle, right? And those are things that we often have ascribed

value to and attached ourselves to without ever taking the time or the space to ask ourselves, is this true? You know, is this what I want to believe? Is this serving? me, is this valuable to me. We just, we take our beliefs, however we got them, perhaps they were given to us through religion, our family of origin, our culture, our media, you know, our own lived experiences, good or bad. And we cultivate a set of beliefs around, around those experiences without discernment. And those beliefs can play out in powerful ways. whether the power of those ways is serving you or not serving you. The brain doesn't discern good or bad.

It doesn't ascribe a value of, oh, you know, that's positive or that's negative. The brain just, it takes your beliefs and it fills your wishes. You know, it tunes your RAS to identify things that come into your field of experience that support those beliefs. It creates a whole montage of self-talk and memories and experiences to play on a repeating loop for you. And there you have it. Those beliefs are supported. Those beliefs are represented in your life. They come to fruition because your brain says that's what's important to me.

You know, it doesn't, again, it doesn't discern good, bad, you know, serves me, doesn't serve me. And that's where the medicine is so powerful and the work is so powerful. and the work is so powerful, right? The medicine in and of itself, supremely powerful, sacred, brilliant, wise, compassionate, loving, the medicine combined with all of these other pillars of support, you know, that's truly transformational. And those pillars of support are there for the individual to build the foundation for their own kingdom of greatness, you know, to build whatever paradigm it is that they want to step into that is different from the one that they've been living.

I'm also realizing that maybe I veered slightly off topic from your question about the power of language. But, I mean, I agree wholeheartedly in every way. The power of language is so important. And that importance comes up in a lot of different ways in this work. and in general in life. You know, we communicate, we use language, and we assume that everybody uses the same language that we do.

That's not always the case, you know. I mean, even if we speak the same language, we may not be speaking the same language. We may not be using words in the same way. You know, I think there in lies a lot of miscommunication when a person uses a certain word or a certain type of language, even a certain tone, and then their message can quickly get distorted and misinterpreted. And sometimes those misinterpretations and distortions fuel beliefs, right?

tying it all together, a misinterpretation held on to for long enough can become a core belief. And so language is important. examining our beliefs is important. Understanding who we are and who we want to become is critically important. It's really well said. I can't help but think of the, you described it so beautifully. And I can't help but think of this pathway from self-awareness to self-love, self-respect, and ultimately self-responsibility.

I think that's a good way to describe it. But again, the language fails. I mean, the way you described it was this beautiful transition of just, maybe you can walk us through some of those steps. Like, that seems to be something that happens when you're with the medicine is this awareness that begins to happen around you, right? Yeah, definitely. It's, yeah, exactly as you described it. You know, it's an incredible unfolding. And it is, I am constantly in awe of each.

individual, you know, who comes here. I'll use the person who's here for the first 28-day retreat as an example. You know, a person comes here and they're coming broken, right? Not that they are themselves broken. I'm not saying that, but some part is broken. You know, there is a certain amount of hope and there's a large amount of hopelessness. You know, there's fear, apprehension, anxiety, uncertainty, all of the things. And those are all natural things, you know. And as we begin the process of just the speaking process, you know, just getting to know someone and asking them questions about who they are and getting them to understand who

they are what they want, what they don't want, you know, what they want more of what they want less of, for them to begin to identify behaviors and patterns in themselves that maybe had previously escaped their observation. Just the preparation alone that we do at Moksha is powerfully, powerfully transformative because it's giving people an opportunity to be heard and be seen in a powerful, deep, authentic way, not only by others, right, myself, my teammates, but by themselves, you know, to really see themselves and hear themselves for the first time, you know, or for the first time in a while, especially when we have other challenges in the away, whether that's trauma or that's addiction, whether that addiction is to a substance, or maybe

your addiction is to, you know, relationships. Maybe your addiction is to shopping. You know, maybe your addiction is to gardening. There are a lot of different methods that we use to distract ourselves from coming into right relation with our true authentic self. And so here in this space, in this, like, amazing place, people, are able to let all of that go and really truly connect with themselves, which is so beautiful. So the unfolding, the unveiling, you know, begins before the medicine ever comes into play,

which is incredible. It's just incredible. Once the medicine comes along, that work is really deepened, you know, that people are really able to do all kinds of things. You know, I'll say from my own personal experience and from, you know, my work with others, we talk a lot of things away into the parts of ourselves that we choose not to look at. We'll refer to it as the shadow. We'll use the shadow aspects of ourselves here. You know, we put a lot of things in storage over there. And then we work really, really, really hard to never, ever, ever look into that space.

You know, just push the box into the dark storage space and shut the door and that's that. And you go on with your life. And there are lots of different strategies we use for not opening that door. You know, substances obviously, right? But all the other things I just mentioned, even, you know, our own self-talk, our own behaviors, our own patterns. the medicine opens up that door and it shines a light inside of that space and a very beautiful thing that happens is that when you take a glance around inside of that shadow cavern it turns out that there are a lot of things that are stored in there that are not even relevant anymore

that we've been working so hard to protect ourselves from looking at it seeing it acknowledging it feeling it, hearing it, that when we go back in from this perspective, we realize, well, all this stuff, it doesn't even matter anymore. I have no attachment to it. I can see it. I can look at it. I can see that I don't need it anymore. And all that, we just send that straight out. You know, all that stuff is going to be decomposed and repurposed into new energy. And then what's left there are some things, you know, some big things. that we hide in the shadow, that we hide from ourselves. But the medicine, along with all of these additional modalities that we use for treatment and

healing, allow us to be able to pull those things out into the light and be able to start unpacking them and looking at them and really coming into an understanding and a relationship with those aspects of ourselves, to be able to heal and learn and to. to become empowered by those experiences. And for me, that's been critically important in my own journey of healing and my own journey toward being a facilitator is allowing experiences that I previously hid from myself in my shadow to empower me in my light, you know, to empower me to be able to have learned, to have found the medicine in those moments,

to have found the wisdom in the teachings of my own lived experiences, even the ones that have been unspeakably harrowing. It's such a fascinating journey. It makes me think that in some ways it's the medicine that finds us and all these experiences that happen to us or there's just us being prepared for the integration that's about to happen. You know, and as you're talking about the people that you get to meet, I'll just pause it right there. Like, it's almost like the medicine finds us when we're ready, huh?

So what do you think? Yes, definitely. Emphatic, strong, yes. The mycelium calls, you know, the mushroom calls. And it's such a beautiful time that we're in now, right? Things have changed so much. Fifteen years ago, you know, the avenues to access for having a guided journey for doing this work were very limited. The number of people that we could touch were limited.

The number of people who were willing to come forward to the medicine were limited, right? There was a lot of stigma, a lot of concern, a lot of fear, and a lot of limitations of access that kept people separate from the medicine. There was a gap in collective understanding around the benefits of the medicine. You know, there were anecdotal recordings. You know, I could sell you 15 years ago, oh my gosh, George, you know, I've been working with this person who has a serious traumatic brain injury, you know, who has lost their cognitive function, who's lost a percentage of their vision, who's lost their freedom by not being able to, you know, to become agoraphobic and afraid to leave their home. And now through the medicine, you know, they've been reborn, revitalized, renewed,

you know, and you might say, oh, that's a cute story, you know. But now we have so much evidence to support those anecdotal stories. We have. complex imaging of the brain, endless, you know, studies that have been done. And now, of course, media, you know, big names, big, big outlets talking about the incredible transformative power of this medicine. And so now the medicine is able to call to more people. You know, more people have an understanding and an awareness for the language of the medicine, right? Because the medicine may have been calling to them for 15 years, 20 years, 30 years, saying there's something more, there's a greater depth of understanding, there's more to you than your story, there's more to you

than your trauma, you're greater than this addiction, whatever the mushroom may have been calling forth and saying, well, going back to language, if you don't have the language for it, there's no context, there's no way to interpret what that message is. But now, suddenly, you know, Michael Paulin comes along or 60 Minutes comes along or George Monty comes along and says, oh my goodness, you know, have you heard about psychedelic psilocybin medicine? And suddenly people have a context for that calling. They have the language and they can understand, oh, that's what I've been called. That's what's been calling me. That's what I'm called toward. That's what I need. That's the next step. And that creates an avenue for people to be able to heed the call.

And so now through Moksha journeys, you know, in the work that we do here, especially given that our team has such a diverse number of specialties, you know, we are coming at it from so many different perspectives, you know, from a holistic perspective. we're able to show up for a lot of different individuals, a lot of individuals with very complex challenges that they're facing. And that means that more people are able to heed the call of the medicine and more people are able to come and receive the message and receive the healing that that they've been searching for. And that's so beautiful. The demographic of people,

well, the demographics of people that are now able to be reached by this deeper, broader understanding that we have collectively and shifts that are happening politically allow, just allow for so much greater access in every way for people to be able to come forward

and recover from whatever it is that has kept them from that recovery. It's so beautiful in so many ways. For so long in the world that I grew up in, we often thought about disease and ailments. A lot of them are contagious. People would be afraid that they would isolate. But it's interesting to me to see that healing is also contagious. When we begin to heal, we come out of it.

of isolation. We come together and we grow together and we heal together. And it's such a beautiful idea to think about us healing and having it be contagious. And what I mean by that is when I hear your story or I hear Prima's story or Rachel's story or Rose's story, I hear an echo of healing in all those stories, even though those stories are unique to them. And when someone can look at this pantheon of stories, they could say, well, look, I'm a little prima. I'm a little Sien. I'm a little rose. I'm a little George. But because I have all these stories, these living, you know, journeys in front of me, these moxha journeys in front of me that I could pull a little bit from all of them and create my story. Hey, I can learn from this brick and I can put that in my pathway road,

or I can take this sign and put it on my road for other people to see. And it's really beautiful to look at it as this contagious healing. And I think it speaks volumes of where we're headed to. And I'm hopeful that People are seeing these changes. And it's, it's, it's really heartwarming. And it's, and I'm not sure that's the right word, but it's, it's close. So I'll stay with it. It's heartwarming for me to see the people that pass through the ideas of recovery becoming the person that turns back around and pulls that next person up.

Because for so long, we've had people in positions that had great intentions that wanted to help, but never had the ailment. They never had the addiction. They never had the journey and they wanted to help, but they just couldn't cross that bridge because they, they themselves haven't been the medicine before. It's, it's interesting. What do you see the, do you see this pattern of healing as contagious continuing to happen? Yeah, that's a, a great metaphor.

I love it. And yes, I agree entirely. It's one of the many, many, many gifts that I remind. clients that they're leaving with when they leave here. You know, healing is contagious. We, each person who does their work, and particularly, you know, when you're able to be vulnerable and authentic enough to share in that process with your loved ones or, you know, even not, even if you're not willing to share, right? People leave here. transformed. They're changed. They're different. And that healing process is contagious. You know,

people cannot help but have their flame lit by a person who they love, who they have seen suffering. When they see their recovery, you know, it reveals to people where, wow, wouldn't it be nice if I were able to heal in that way? What would I need to heal in order to have my life? And restored to that level, you know, and that starts getting people to ask questions. You know, as I said before, we may think we're all done with our healing, you know, and little do we know that something may come along, whether it's a challenge, it's adversity that reveals to us like, oh, no, there's some more you can do there, or inspiration, you know, of seeing someone else heal themselves in a certain kind of a way that you didn't perhaps recognize

that that was a way that you could deepen your healing. And if you could deepen your healing in that way, what might the ripple effects of that be in your life? Might you be more prosperous? Might you be more passionate? Might you then be able to have healthier relationships in your intimate relationships or your community, your work. You know, there's, it's remarkable to me how many different aspects of our lives can be touched by just one little thread of unhealed whatever, you know, unchecked whatever, unassigned whatever that we are holding on to. One small limiting belief might be all that it takes to identify and reconcile and unlock a whole new phase of our lives.

And that may touch everything in our lives. It's incredible. It is incredible. It, I think it speaks volumes to the idea of the idea of the relationship between self-responsibility, and dignity. You know, when we get broken, and most of us are at some point in our life, and when you can take responsibility for the actions that happened in your life, and you go, you know what, these things that happened to me were horrible. But I'm going to take responsibility for the meaning of those events in my life. And as soon as you do that, it's like you allow yourself

to have some dignity. You stop shaming yourself. And this idea of being broken, you leave a really beautiful transformation seems to be going to a place broken and relieving with your dignity. Like, yeah, I did that. And you know what? I'm glad I did. I mean, I'm not proud of it, but I'm glad it happened because now I'm here. And it's so beautiful to get to see. I want to be careful because I don't want people to think that you have to be broken before you get chosen, you know, because that can be a slippery slope right there. But I do want people to understand. and if you find yourself in this position of being broken, maybe look at it as you've been chosen. You've been chosen and that you've went through the trials.

Now can you integrate? You've had all these things happen. Why? So that you can integrate them now and go back and find other people that are in the midst of those trials and help them along their way. Like there's something beautiful about self responsibility and dignity. Do you see a relationship there? Yes. I love everything that you just said.

I would, I have deep, deep, deep reverence and gratitude for that process, you know, for the, for the process, although it's not for the faint of heart. It's not my favorite pastime to endure trials and tribulation. to endure significant trauma in order to deepen my relationship toward resilience and growth, expansion and elevation. It's not my favorite thing. However, it has been deeply informative and transformative. And transformative. in my life, you know, to transition through something that came up for me while you were

having that beautiful share was the transition from surviving to thriving, you know, and often when we have endured great suffering, you know, and great adversity, even once we have transitioned to the other side of that and we, maybe we have more stability in our life, you know, maybe our living situation. is feeling okay. You know, maybe financially we're feeling better. Maybe our relationships are feeling better. It is still the go-to to be in survival mode, you know, to be always worrying if the rug is going

to get pulled out from underneath of that stability. You know, how precarious is it? And for me, part of being in survival mode is constantly trying to, like, restructure this like jenga cube of, you know, supports in my life and praying and hoping and toiling over and lamenting and catastrophizing what's going to happen when the tower falls. You know, when we can transition from striving or surviving to thriving, then we don't have to worry about that jenga tower anymore. You know, we can knock that whole entire jenga tower down.

rebuild something that is unshakable. And that is really the power of becoming empowered by trials and tribulations, by traumas, by shadows, by aspects of ourselves that we'd rather not look at, that we'd rather drown out with whatever distraction best suits our desire. you know but when we can stop avoiding that those aspects of ourselves and begin embracing those aspects of ourselves it's this powerful thing that's incredible yeah it's interesting when you when you say catastrophizing about the tower falling down like no one everybody who's been there and probably a lot of people if they're being honest with themselves have found themselves in

that spot. It's dark. It's cold and you're alone. But there's something rewarding about getting through it and then sitting with someone who's going through it. And you're like, hang on, just put this pole right there. You know what I mean? And it's like you realize at that moment, like, oh, I bet you I can see that their tower is falling. If I just show them where this pole is or better yet, if I can just hint at this, hey, maybe use that corner pole. And Do you have a corner pole? Maybe your corner pole is this. This is what I found.

You know, like there's something so liberating and unifying at the same time. And I know that's kind of a paradox, but it's this ability to understand, hey, I went through this to help other people. And what a great gift it is. And I think that harkens back to your idea of how much you learn from people that come to you that are in a similar situation. In some ways, the person that is, is, is, is, is, is. lucky enough to be there when someone is in pain is learning the most. You know what I mean by that? Yeah, absolutely. That's an interesting way of thinking, of phrasing it, lucky enough to be there when someone's in pain. But yeah, that's true. It is a powerfully transformative space to be in

with a person, you know, especially when we can do so in this safe container, in this safe space, you know, to allow people to be able to experience their pain, maybe be able to experience their pain for the first time, you know, even the most painful things that I've experienced, I'm still learning more about those painful things because there are aspects of it that maybe I've shut away. Maybe I've walked down, you know. And so to be able to have a safe space for people to be able to feel their pain, really, really feel it and be in it. And for that to not only be okay, but to be welcome, wanted, and needed inside of that space, that's really powerful. You know, it's powerful for everybody who has the privilege of being in that room, you know, for the individual, obviously, you know, but for everyone who gets to be in that sacred space, that is a powerful, powerful thing, you know, to really be able to truly feel a person's experiences in every way.

And until we do, we can't take the wisdom forward with us in the same way, you know, as you were mentioning before. We can't put purpose and put meaning to that suffering until we can fully feel it and we can embody the gift that we were given to that experience. You know, whether that gift was your resilience, your strength, your depths of, you know, willingness to love, your faith, your whatever it may be. In my case, you know, my ability to serve others is my divine expression. You know, that's what I, when I feel the most of service, the most in my power is when I'm able to serve others, you know. And so for me, each painful experience and each beautiful, profound, amazing, breathtakingly, magnificent experience I've ever had, all of those moments are in service to being able to show up for others,

you know, to be a reflection for others and for them to be a reflection for me, whether they're not as far along in their journey as I am, or if they're further along in their journey than I am, we're all here to reflect and amplify each other. And it's a matter of what do we want to reflect and what do we want to amplify and how are we amplifying that message? And for me, it's unflinching authenticity and humility, really, at the real end of the day.

That's what it is. that everybody's different. Everybody's got a different expression and amplification. And that is something that I really appreciate about the team at Mocha, you know, and that's a really, does a really pivotal turning point for me, being able to change the way I'm able to serve others by engaging. in that service with so many different people from so many different perspectives.

And I'm so grateful for that representation here on the team, you know, all of the different knowledge and experiences and wisdoms and love languages and just ways that we're able to pour into the people who are called to Mokshah, to their liberation. Mokshah means liberation for to be able to. support a person's liberation and watch them take flight as this new incredible version of themselves. It's just incredible. I'm so grateful. Yeah. It reminds me. As you're speaking, there's a couple of thoughts that come to my mind. The way I weave them together, even though they seem like a paradox, is the idea of liberation comes from,

comes from understanding that we're all one. And when you talk about somebody in a sacred ceremony, you're talking about our pain. And maybe that's what connects us. It's like when you're in the ceremony together, you understand that this is a collective pain. This is a symptom of a manifestation that's affecting all of us. And it's just acting out this way and this person.

But the same things have affected you. You're getting to see the way this symptom acts through this person. But it's our collective pain that's causing these problems. So every time you get to see it manifested, it draws you to that relationship with the pain. Like, this is ours. How do we fix this? And it makes you want to be part of the collective. But that's what liberates you from the pain is like, okay, it's ours.

It's kind of a weird paradox. You talk about liberating as getting away from things. But the liberation is an understanding that it belongs to all of us. And you don't have to have all the weight, right? It's a fascinating perspective that I think ceremony, maybe sacred ceremony, gives to you. Yeah, that's beautiful. That's a very profound perspective. Yes, I agree.

And that's one of the gifts that psilocybin bestows upon us with greater ease, you know, is really being able to feel into that interconnectedness and to be able to see these infinite reflections, you know, reflections of everything, reflections of ourselves, reflections of your mother, your father, your brother, your pastor, your farmer, your whatever, you know, the medicine does, it really, you know, ineffable is often a word that's used to describe psilocybin experiences, and I use it all the time because I think it's really appropriate, right? That which is beyond words, beyond description. that is the connection that psilocybin allows us to be able to make with this interconnectivity and this sense of oneness right it's beyond words it's beyond description and it is constantly reflected in the facilitation room you know exactly your point that it's an incredible experience to

to have those revelations that you just described, you know, of recognizing that this person's pain, this person's experiences, it may be like slightly different, but really when it comes down to the core of the issue, you know, we are one. We are the same. We are all just different manifestations of this collective experience. And, you know, we can make that correlation here with pain. We can also make that correlation with growth. We can also make that correlation with growth. We can also make that. correlation with recovery. We can make that correlation with, you know, divine expressions of the individual toward the collective, you know, we can, and that kind of goes back to what I was saying before and, you know, what you were saying earlier, taking responsibility, taking personal responsibility for what aspect of this collective do I want to be amplifying and mirroring to others, you know, and it doesn't mean anything's good or bad, I'm not assigning value of good or bad, right? The mushrooms will also teach you that.

There is no good or bad. But there is discernment, right? And there is willfully choosing how we wish to, what expression we wish to embody and intensify and magnify. And we all take turns. You know, sometimes we're reflecting struggle. Sometimes I'm reflecting, you know, I'm reflecting struggle. Sometimes I'm reflecting being healed.

Sometimes I'm reflecting being a community leader. Sometimes I'm reflecting being a burnt out mom, having a meltdown in the grocery store. You know, I mean, we're all multidimensional prismatic individuals expressing this, like, greater collective oneness. we just all get to take turns in the reflection department. That's so true. It's so true. And it's, that is,

it's wonderful to know because it's, it's so slippery. Like sometimes you have it and then it's gone. Sometimes you know how you see it and then you're just a mess. Like I, my life all the time, like I feel like, yeah,

this is so beautiful and right underwater. You know what I'm like? I can't breathe. I can't breathe. I can breathe. I can breathe just fine. What's wrong with me? And then boom,

right back underwater again, you know, it's just, you get dunk, but, if you can have a good laugh, if you can have a sense of humor about it, it really helps.

I agree. Yeah, I agree. I think a sense of humor about it is really the way. You know, it has been my way, for sure. It's an important part of my coping strategy of navigating human existence. That's for sure. So the 28-day-Dabitry,

this is the first of its kind, in this country, right? Yeah. So exciting. It's amazing. It's so incredible. And I want to take just the briefest of moments to really, really honor all of the sacrifices, all of the just incredible efforts and movements and wins and losses and challenges and victories that have been so hard bought by so many for so long. You know, families have suffered, individuals

have suffered. People have people have it's been a long, long, long, long, long, long journey to get here. To be able to have this medicine be available and accessible and on the forefront

and I just I want to acknowledge the the lineage, the process that has gotten us here. And we're here, and this is amazing. And this process of, you know, stepping forward, you know, from legalization forward has been a journey. And I want to thank and acknowledge all of the people who have fought hard and, you know, poured into this movement coming to fruition.

And now we're here first, ever in the nation, 28-day psilocybin assisted recovery retreat. And it's incredible. We're just going into the second week of the first administration and the results already are just so, so, so powerful. You know, beginning with, let's take the most glaringly obvious and incredible example, the participants score going from perhaps an eight out of ten on a craving scale to a zero in one week. I mean, come on. What better result could you want in that department, right? But deeper than that, you know, watching a person come back to life, watching them come back to their power, watching them do hard things.

really, really hard things. Look at things that have been deeply walked away in that shadow space, you know, and courageously, powerfully, beautifully, beautifully, gracefully, bringing those things to the light. It's absolutely incredible. We have many, many, many different therapeutics and pillars of support that are available here, which, you know, each individually, including psilocybin, are really powerful practices on their own, but combined together, it's truly transformational, you know. So we have a private chef here, you know, who's making beautiful, amazing high vibrational foods.

Okay, that's amazing, right? We've got Premah on the team. Premas, he's a neuro-science. wizard who is able to bring forth, you know, all manner of incredible supplements and remedies and magical concoctions, if you ask me, that are specific to an individual's needs, you know, that are specifically addressing different challenges, different aspects of a person's biological expression to support them in their recovery. We have an incredible, incredible team of therapists and coaches and guides working together.

Of course, you met Rose and Drew in the last interview. They're both absolutely incredible. We have an amazing sound healer, integration acupuncture here. we have, you know, massage therapists, just all of these different ways for the clients to be able to be supported in every kind of a way and to be able to integrate on every kind of a level. You know, verbal integration is awesome. It's very powerful. And there are also other nonverbal integration tools. tools, you know, the sound healing and the massage therapy and the acupuncture. Yes. Also, you know,

the opportunity to be out here in this incredibly beautiful space, you know, to be immersed in nature. There's an amazing pool, a hot tub, you know, to be able to provide the space for individuals, to be able to feel into what is going to make me feel the most comfortable, the most restored, the most regulated here in this moment and have access to all those things is amazing, amazing. And the results are exactly as you would expect them to be, you know, just beautiful, amazing, miraculous. Incredible. Yeah. For so long, it seems that we have measured success through,

what we can we've measured success through like a sterile environment of numbers and percentages and it there's so much that we get that that we throw out because it you can't wrap your arms around it and it's you know some of the things that we've talked about whether it's self-respect or self-awareness or relationships to the people you love or your wife saying my my husband's no longer an asshole anymore You know, there's all these things or vice versa. Maybe the husband says that about the wife. I don't know. But like it's these ideas of relationship that are being healed.

And it's truly a metamorphosis in so many ways. I'm so excited for you guys to be there. Are you guys on a literal mountaintop? Like I have this idea of people going to a mountain top to be healed. And I was like, I look like you're on an actual mountain. Behold. The top of the mountain. Right?

It's fascinating to me. Yes, we are. It is incredible. It's beautiful. It's a tremendous gift. And yeah, here we are. We're top of the mountain. Just doing it.

Yeah. I would be, it would be irresponsible for me to not ask about accessibility, Siena. How is it accessible for people? I mean, is there programs for people that may not have a lot of money? or what is the accessibility for people going to Moksha? That's a good question. You know, we have a lot of different points of entry for people to be able to tap into service. Each different treatment plan and retreat is put together on an individual basis.

So that's going to depend on what a person needs, you know, what the record. recommendations are, where we, you know, how we navigate that. And we create all different kinds of programs in order to be able to suit different people's needs and address what is important in their healing process. If people are interested, interested, you can book a free discovery call at mocha journeys.com, we can learn more about an individual situation and what they need and where they're at and start putting together a custom retreat plan that meets their needs. So, you know, it's variable, essentially, is the answer. It's individual as all of our needs and desires and

points of access are you know and although we've talked about the 28 day retreat you guys have a whole selection of things from couples to like a weekend to there's a variety of different even just coming in for coaching or learning more about what are some of the other services besides the the 28 day retreat that mocha does yeah i'm glad you mentioned that um yeah we have a full service you know pretty much anything you can imagine you know we have coaching without psilocybin. We have coaching with microdosing, various different microdosing programs that people can engage with. We offer some day services. We offer three-day one-jury retreats as well as longer retreats that are, you know, two. to eight is two, I'm sorry, two, six, and eight day retreats, which would be one, two, or three journeys,

you know, and what is appropriate for each individual varies, as I said before, you know. So there are a number of different co-factors that go into what is appropriate for each individual. You know, what is their goal? What are they bringing to the table in terms of, you know, their story? and we will help each individual kind of navigate for themselves what is most appropriate. You know, so there are a lot of different ways to engage with the medicine and to engage with the team that are specific to the individual. Yeah. I'm glad you asked that. Yeah. I think, you know, potentially in one of our previous conversations,

Or maybe it was one that I had with Rose where she was talking about some red tent event where there was things specifically for women. And I think that there may have, I think you may also offer some services for a wider range of whether it's end of life. You know, it's just beyond addiction. There's a ton of different ways in which Mocha can help, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. The first aspect that you mentioned, you know, we do put together different offerings that serve. specific groups of people, you know, so we may at times have retreats that are strictly for women. You know, we may have retreats that are focused on veteran services.

You know, we may have a shorter retreat that is around addiction. We may have a retreat that's focused around deepening spiritual practices. You know, there are a lot of different ways that we show. up for a lot of different demographics. So again, moxha journeys.com is going to be a great resource. There's a newsletter spot to sign up there to get updated on,

you know, specific containers that we're holding and offering. To your second point, yes, there are a number of different reasons and ways that people come to Mochia seeking their liberation, right? Addiction is just one,

thing. There are lots of different things. You know, end of life, anxiety or transition is an important one. Behavioral modification is an important one. You know, deep transformative therapy, overcoming PTSD and C PTSD, you know, just an expansion of yourself, you know, a deepening of your relationship with yourself coming into right relation with who you are. You know, what is keeping you back. What are your limitations and how do we move beyond that? All of these reasons and many more are reasons that people come to the medicine. You know, if you are called to the medicine, then give us a call and we are there to serve you. You know, there is no, there is no call that is wrong. There is no right or wrong. You know,

Those are some big umbrella things that we address, but there are lots of individual specific things that people want to work on and deepen their relationship with. And we're here for that. So as I mentioned before, and I will stop mentioning it sometime, probably not, probably mentioning it for the rest of my life. You are welcome to go to mochajournys.com, book a discovery call. You can do that right there on the platform, pick a date and time that works well for you. Talk to a team member. Talk about your hopes, wishes, dreams, desires, you know, and we'll get you all sorted out. Lookity split.

No problem. I love it. That should be whenever I talk to you or the team, I always think it's like Moxha journeys, yes and. That's like the answer. Like, yeah, we do that and this. It's so beautiful. Sina, this is a wonderful conversation. It's exceeded my expectations.

I'm so thankful that I got to sit down with you one-on-one and get to learn more about you. Like, really, for me, as an individual, helps me understand how you think and why you think and the beautiful nature of why you are good at what you do and how you understand patterns. I'm super thankful that you shared all that with me in the audience today and look forward to meeting you in person one day and sitting down and having a conversation one-on-one. So,

thank you so much, George. Yeah, yeah. It's a beautiful conversation. You guys are doing an amazing work out there. And I hope anybody that does feel called, called to the medicine will go to Moxha journeys and book a discovery call because it can be life-changing. And the people there have incredible intentions and they all have a relationship to the

healing. They've been through it. And I would send my mom there. So I want everybody to know that. I'm super thankful. I think that people know maybe one more time tell people like we're the best place to find you and the team is and then we'll close it out. Yeah. Thank you so much for all of those beautiful, kind words.

George is always such a pleasure to be here and have a conversation with you or to listen to you. And you're just an incredible, dynamic, vibrant person. and I'm so grateful to be here. So thank you once again for the opportunity. For those who are interested in learning more, please go to mokshaj journeys.com. You can sign up for the newsletter there. You can sign up for a discovery call.

We will lovingly and happily escort you through the process and really help you to get down to what you need. In what way is the medicine calling to you? and help you find the language to understand the message of the medicine. Fantastic. Ladies and gentlemen, check it out. See, and hang on one moment. I'm going to talk to you afterwards briefly,

but I wanted to hang up with our friends in the audience. So ladies and gentlemen, I hope you enjoyed the conversation today. I hope you enjoyed the candid ideas and thoughts that were put out there, and I hope that every one of you has a beautiful day. That's all we got. Aloha.