TrueLife - The Art of Thought Design: Lessons from Dr. Vijak Haddadi

Episode Date: February 18, 2024

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Welcome, everyone, to a truly transformative episode! Today, we have the honor of diving into the boundless realms of innovation and consciousness with none other than Dr. Vijak Haddadi. As a transformational guide and innovator, Dr. Haddadi’s journey is a testament to the power of interdisciplinary exploration and visionary thinking. With an impressive background spanning an MBA and a PhD, Dr. Haddadi’s expertise extends far beyond conventional boundaries.At Syntegral, nestled in the vibrant landscape of Kingston University London Area, Dr. Haddadi orchestrates a symphony of ideas that transcend the ordinary. His interests, ranging from archetypal cosmology to artificial intelligence and regenerative ecosystems, paint a portrait of a mind unbounded by traditional constraints.Dr. Haddadi’s superpowers are as awe-inspiring as they are diverse. From crafting win-win deals to envisioning radical growth, his abilities transcend the mundane, shaping the future of human potential and multi-stakeholder synergy. As an architect of innovation labs, activation agencies, and venture builders, Dr. Haddadi’s impact reverberates across industries, from EcoTech to MarTech and beyond.Today, we embark on a journey into the depths of Dr. Haddadi’s visionary world, exploring the intersection of technology, consciousness, and human enhancement. Get ready to expand your horizons and challenge your perceptions as we delve into the mind of a true pioneer in the art of thought design and execution. Ladies and gentlemen, let’s welcome Dr. Vijak Haddadi to the conversation.”https://www.linkedin.com/company/syntegralco/http://linkedin.com/in/vijak One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins

maze, lights my war cry Born from the blaze. The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Kodak Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Woo! Ladies and gentlemen, it is Friday. It looks like we made it.

I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shine, I hope the birds are singing. I hope to win. Is that you back? Amen. I love that energy. I'm so stoked to be here, man.

And for everybody listening, I don't know if you're listening to the podcast or if you're watching this on YouTube or Rumble or Twitter, but wherever you are, if you're on LinkedIn, whatever, let me just go ahead and welcome everyone to a truly transformational episode.

Today we have the honor of diving into the boundless realms of innovation and consciousness with none other. None other than Dr. Vijakhadat. As a transformational guide and innovator, his journey is a testament to the power of interdisciplinary exploration and visionary thinking with an impressive background spanning an MBA, a PhD. His expertise extends far beyond conventional boundaries. At Centrigal, nestled in the vibrant landscape of Kingston University London area,

he orchestrates a symphony of ideas that transcend the ordinary, His interest ranging from archetypal cosmology to artificial intelligence and regenerative ecosystems. Paint a portrait of a mind unbound by traditional constraints. Dr. Daddy's superpowers are, I think, awe-inspiring as they are diverse. From crafting win-win deals to envisioning radical growth, his abilities transcend the mundane, shaping the future of human potential and multi-stakeholder synergy. As an architect of innovation, labs, activist, energies, and venture building, his impact reverberates across industries from ecotech and beyond. Dr. V, thanks for being here today.

How are you? Amazing. Thank you, George. This introduction was just like next level. I was like, okay. Yeah. I was just saying like, that's, you know, some cool dude. Okay.

You just like, okay. That's nice. I take that too. Okay. He's good. Oh, my friend, Ben says, no one blows sun, sun like you, George. You're right, Ben.

You're right, Ben. I love you, man. We got to talk about this guy's, my friend, Dr. Vee, this guy, Ben, that's just talking to it right now. He's got this really cool new book that's called No Absolute.

He's right in the second part. Mind blowing, man. And I wanted to bring him up. I think it's a great segue into, you know, just the world we're living in today. And you have this great quote that really attracted me to you.

And I want to share it with you in the audience right here. And it says, if you were interested in technology to further the well-being of the planet and sentient life on Earth, get a hold to me. That's a beautiful quote. Maybe you can unpack that for us. Sure. Well, you see, that is just comes a little, it connects with what we were doing in the warm-up before. We were talking about progress and technology, you know, and the malaise of modern humanity

that we have, which is to kind of blindly embrace progress and technology for its own sake, right? Because we always need the next new thing, the next better, more powerful, more, the faster thing, and so on. And it's ingrained into our systems and to our psychology as well. But that being the case, we overlook way too often or have overlooked for far too often, the, you know, the holistic impact of innovation, of technology. What for? technology for what, right? For innovation for what? What for? It's almost like there's this, this, you know, this belief that innovation is always good, right, no matter what it is. And that culminated in this in this cult of disruptive innovation, which, you know, disruptive innovation

was huge for many years. You know, I was doing, working with ventures and large organizations, doing digital transformation, digital innovation campaigns in different continents, It's mostly in North America and the UK, but a couple of other places too. And for years, it was always a disruptive innovation. We're the next disruptors. They're not disruptive. And it became almost this thing like disruptive innovation is always good. You know, it's always good to disrupt whatever is there and change it and bring some new innovation.

Right. And that's not, okay, look, I need to unpack this. It's not, you know, it's great to be innovative. but I always had an issue with that, with that kind of blind blanket, you know, backing of any disruption is good, right? I was like, what?

Why? Do you want to disrupt, for instance, do you want to disrupt the model of love that we have? It's pretty traditional. You want to disrupt that? No, I don't want to disrupt the family, right? I don't want to disrupt the family. I'm okay with advancing the family model,

making it more. you know, evolving it, but I don't want to disrupt it. I don't want to like it to disappear. I don't want it to go away, right? So there's there is what I'm getting at. There's a lot of good as well. And there's a lot of beauty in the traditions, in spiritual traditions specifically, which we can't just discard in favor of any type of technological innovation whatsoever. What we need to do is we need to marry or bring together in my mind the powers of, okay, because it's also not the case that we should now reject innovation. We should just say like, you know, it's the fundamentalists for all of all stripes and colors that exist of people who say, okay, I'm going to do a counterreaction.

I will embrace tradition. I will embrace even ecology, you know, just be like a fundamentalist of this and reject any type of progress. That's not good neither. That's not going to help us. So what we need to do is, and this goes back to, it's a long way of getting back to it. Yeah, it's perfect, man. The quote that you asked me about is, this is my philosophy. How can we, how can we marry technological innovation with all of the exponential technologies that are emerging? How can we marry that authentically with the wisdom traditions, with everything that's good in the spiritual wisdom traditions of humanity, in learning about spiritual growth, and learning. And, about working with inner work, with consciousness, and all the other kind of wealth of resources

that we have in the wisdom tradition. I think that's a great challenge. If we can, if we can, if we can somehow, you know, if we can find a way to bring these together, we can solve a lot of the problems that we have right now on the planet, if not all of them. Yeah, it makes, It makes sense. And when I, when you explain it like that, it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination or doesn't take any imagination at all. All I like to do is look out the window and you see the fighting that's happening. And it is this old versus young, tradition versus progress. And you're right.

Like, where did we turn the corner and the idea of disrupting everything is good? Like disrupting seems to be a great way to make money. But that's not necessarily good either, man. Like this idea of disruption, like just think about that word disruption. It's a problem. I'm not saying it's bad, but it just sounds to me like disruption for the act of disrupting alone is a problem. What do you think? Yeah.

Yeah. It's like it's this strange situation where it's become, you know, it's. And there are certain people who have an interest in it, you know. Look, this goes back to this goes back to this shows you, this connection. with what's wrong in our economic system. It connects with what's wrong in venture capital, for instance. You know, for a whole venture capital space right now has a profound crisis. Because for a long time, you know, you were only looking venture capitalists because of the dynamics of the game and of the system of how it works and so on.

They're only looking for the next big disruptor, the next big company that you're. can come along and blitz scale, blow anybody else out of the water, and just, and just kind of take over a market at, you know, break, break things as, as the famous dictum goes, move fast and break things, right? Break things, no matter what you break. Doesn't matter. Break everything on the way, right? Yeah.

And this model, this led to the, this led to the, you know, all the crises that we had in the, in the space in the with the Silicon Valley Bank and others, you know, the whole space kind of starting to collapse on itself. And now people in the venture capital space themselves, a lot of them are saying, look, our model is not working. It's not, it doesn't benefit us in the long term, doesn't benefit humanity. A lot of people who have capital also are starting to talk about patient capital. I'm talking about different modes of investing.

So that mindset shift is starting to happen gradually. People are starting to talk about impact when they're investing as well, right? So this connects, this connects with what we were saying. Is progress always good? Is disruption always good? The answer is, yes, if you're only looking for short-term returns, then, yeah, okay, every disruption is good. Doesn't matter what you're disrupting because you don't care about the social consequence.

You don't care if you're destroying nature. You don't care if you're destroying society. You don't care if you're destroying jobs, right? you're making short-term profit. So every disruption is good, right? But if you're then saying, wait a moment, if you're only valorizing short-term disrupt, short-term profit,

you're actually shooting yourself in the foot, your kids, your next generation, everybody else, right? You're just damaging our own long-term progress or prospects, right? So then you can say, okay, wait a moment, not every type of progress. We need to start to understand that there is a good, a better, a wise,

way of innovating, a wise way of generating profit as well. And there's a dumb and quick way, which you can make money with it, but it's not in the benefit of humanity to do that. Right. Yeah. It's fascinating on, like on a grand scale, if you just pan back and look at us as like one giant entity, sometimes I think to myself, like how far do we have to get before we realize we're killing ourselves? You know what I mean by that? Like, like, like, the people in positions that have the most. And I know that that's like a subjective term. But it seems to me, like, do you want to be the richest man in a shitty condo that's

breaking down and like the world around you sucks? Like, do you want to be that guy? Or do you want to maybe be someone that is looking out and, and being proud of what you see outside your window? Like, yeah, dude, just fucking less homeless. Like, how do we see homeless people and not go? Oh my God, that's us being really sick. Oh, my God.

That's cancer on us. What the fuck are we doing to ourselves? Like, how do we not see that as a giant warning sign for ourselves dying? And I'm guilty of it, too. Like, sometimes I walk by it. I'm like, this guy has got some real problems, man. I don't know how to fix it. So I just keep walking by it.

You know, and sometimes it's just this idea that it's so big. What can I do as an individual? But that's bullshit, right? Every person can do something, right? Like, you can try to become the very best version of yourself. Like, that's something. Well, what are some other things that we can do to, like, help stop this, this momentum of just moving into this destruction, man. What do you think?

Is that too nihilistic or what? Well, I don't know. I don't know, George. I don't know how, you know, I don't know what your, in your podcast. I don't know if you have a focus on, on specific. Is it, is it everything goes? It's everything, man. There's no box.

over here, man. The box. I only talk about this. Okay, so, so to be perfectly honest, I'm completely of the conviction that we need a, we need to evolve the entire system. And that includes everything,

the politics, the economic system, the way that, you know, the great visionary Buckminster Fuller, he was seeing, you know, the,

he was already decades before everybody else. He was seeing that he was kind of taking this, this bird's eye view on the whole planet. And he was looking down and saying like this is like looking like people do it. You know, it's just stupid. Like people are just doing stupid. If you look from far away, you see all these little creatures there. And they're all just spending most of their resources, you know, fighting each other,

oppressing each other, kind of stealing from each other. Being inefficient on a big scale, being completely inefficient, right? Using all their resources for inefficient purposes. if you look at it from a bigger perspective, right? And why is that? Because of mindsets, because of political system, because of ingrained systems that we have, which are keeping people in boxes

and which are keeping people in ideologies that pit them against each other, right? So what can we do? Do we have to take sides? In this world, which right now is going towards more and more and more conflict? Yeah. You know, look, when I was growing up,

and I'm a millennial, but I'm like the old millennials, right? Like the first millennial in the early 80s, right? So when I was growing up, the people in every, you know, the common conception was that World War I, World War II, World Wars are a thing of the past. Like you could not even speak about, if you said World War III, people would say, oh, science fiction or science fiction story. It's like stuff because it was not, it was not conceivable. You know, it was not conceivable that this is possible.

Nowadays, people are making, go on YouTube and people are telling you, here's where you should go take your money during World War III to be safe. Here's where you should build your bunker. It's like, everybody's talking about it. I was like, what's happening? And this is crazy. But we're, our world is going to war in that direction where things that seem crazy, right? Yeah.

People getting controlled, their brains getting controlled. through chips that they implant or with CBDCs that know everything you spend, your whole money inflow coming in and out, right? Not saying that all those things can only be used for bad purposes, but they can be used for extremely dystopian purposes. Of course. So all of these things are kind of coming, entering our reality,

entering our field of consciousness and our field of reality. And what are we to do about it? I believe, again, to go back to Buckminster Fuller, he said, if you want to make a system obsolete, right? If you want to overcome this system, don't fight it. Create another system, a new system that makes the old one obsolete, right? Because if you fight the existing one, all you're going to be is a partisan, you know, or an activist or whatever, somebody who's there, you know, you're bad, you know,

these politicians are bad, those politicians, you know. But instead, what? should you do? You should create a new system that even though right now you're creating it, it looks like, you know, you look like a fringe or crazy or whatever. Oh, look at these crazy people. They're trying to build a system that is a new system for whatever, for economy, for data and so on. Oh, yeah, right. You know, crazies. It's all right. The people are now the crazies. Once the world gets even worse, right? Or once the world gets to a place where people really start to realize, wait, this is not working, the people who were the crazy, suddenly are looked like pioneers.

Right. So that's what, that's what if you're telling me what we should do, I think we should, I think we should work on creating new systems. And this means new holistic systems, spiritually, technologically and economically, right? And there's technologies out there for that. There's technologies. There's, there's crypto tokens that you can have for communities. There's new ways of having data. There's people working on regenerative agriculture and regenerative energy. It's almost like a lot of different things are out there.

But what's needed is courageous communities of people coming together and experimenting with these new sets of technologies to create new forms of living. That is beautiful. You're right. And it's, I love the quote from Buckminster. And it's really well said. it on some level

I love images and symbology and the one that comes to mind when I'm hearing you talk about the way in which we should make old systems obsolete is this picture of there's like this optical illusion and maybe you've seen it's like there's this picture of an old lady

but if you stare at it it's a young lady but then you pull it back into old lady and you go it's a young lady and it's hard to see both because like your mind switches between them like it's old, it's young but if you focus long enough you can voluntarily move

between the old lady and the young lady. The old lady and the young lady. And on some level, I think that that has to do with like semantic flexibility, like your ability to not only see both of those images simultaneously, but once you do that, now you can look at our society and be like, oh, it's the same thing.

The Republicans, the Democrats, the gays, the strays, the blacks, the white. It's the fucking same thing. Just a little twist on it. You're just seen a little different because you're from this angle. And once you do that, that allows you to step outside that paradigm. And when you speak to these new tools, these new ideas, I'm super stoked talking to you because I know you're on the forefront of it. And I talk to other people on the forefront.

There's this new, I don't know if it's new, but this idea of like human design, start looking into that. And I'm like, that's pretty amazing the way in which this particular set of beliefs forces an individual to look introspectively at themselves on a spiritual level. And as I'm thinking about that, I met this girl who's like, I'm into human design, but I'm using it in human resources to build companies. And I'm like, woo, next level. Oh, you've got a technology company. And you're using human design to build an HR team. Oh, so I don't need to have a degree from this Ivy League school. I need to have this introspective ability to see myself in this way.

Like, I see it common, Dr. V. You see like, right? That makes sense, right? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, there's lots of different approaches. There's lots of different experiments going out there. I'm not saying there aren't there. There's so many out there. And I'm sure, you know, you're talking to lots of different experiment at the forefront of the, of this new creation that we need, which unites technology and spirituality. Yes. New ways of being. Yeah. But it's, I think it's, it's, it's also. Yeah. It's, look, I mean, experimentation. In every experimentation you have like the experimentation you do for the purpose of being able to say this work this well, this didn't work so much. This worked okay.

This worked really, really well, right? Yeah, yeah. That process, that's an important process that we're right now because there's also, I mean, there's a lot of, it's great that a lot of people are coming up with things, right? But yeah, I think there are some that are more, that are deeper and more. more capable maybe or more rooted in certain traditions and wisdom and some that are a little bit less. So, okay, you see where I'm getting on a little bit. So I'm not the biggest fan of human design, but I appreciate it a lot because it does something great. It does something great.

It takes a lot of this old cosmological wisdom and it puts it into a new form, which is amazing. I'm 100% for that, right? But I think you can do that still a little bit better right there doing it. What, like, what else can be like, what, what don't, like, what else can be done? That's an example of things that I see. But what are some examples of things that you see that you're excited about? Examples of these kind of experiments? Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one. I mean, it's like there are experiments in lots of different fields. For instance, in immersive technologies, right? Immersive technologies, there's now lots of applications that people are building with, okay, you got the Apple headsets and so on and so forth. You got that this is going mainstream. People are starting to, you know, wear it outside and I don't know, go on the, you know, be on the subway with wearing a weird thing on their head. But now you also have applications that some people are building, which are emulating certain visualization techniques.

that actually evolve your inner well-being that actually are able to unlock higher spiritual states in you, right? Things that in the past, you had to sit there and learn certain visualization techniques. Now you can actually have that in an immersive environment, right? So this is completely new. There's new technologies of spiritual or consciousness development, of consciousness expansion, right,

which are being tested right now. Right. Now, there is people building there. There's lots and lots of different things that are being done. There's people building immersive domes, right? There's people building, there's people taking bio markers from rings, from various types of wearables that you have where you can see, okay, what you did here, the experience you had, this is how it impacted you. This is how it impacted your, you know, not just your vitals, but also, you know, your brain activity. several markers that you can get, physiological markers you can see. But now, can you put these things together? This was just two or three examples, but there's so many different things that people are doing, right? Can you put all of these together

to really use technologies to advance people? I think there's a huge space for that still because a lot of these experiments are still new. And I could go on and on and on. There's experiments in artificial intelligence, benevolent artificial general intelligence, that people are working on, right? There's what are the cryptos that I mentioned before

where there's some great things happening. People are launching crypto coins with all kinds of new governance structures in there. Right. And it's a lot too because, you know, because every technology has its own experimentation fields. Right. And so I think one thing is like we're almost like,

because we're in this age of specialization. Yeah. Everybody's a specialist, right? I'm a specialist for AI. I'm a specialist for the economy. I'm a specialist for psychology and so and so forth. But what we need is more of the renaissance type of universal mindset, which tries to bring these together, right?

And tries to say like, oh, how can we take all of these new things that are going on and create these kind of holistic experiments for advancing humans? Yeah. Like an archaic revival of sorts. You know, we've found our way so deep into these specificity. You know, it's interesting. I was working with this startup called Token of Me and they're measuring flow state. Well, they're trying to find ways in which they can measure flow state through different monitors and feedback and stuff like that.

And it's a fascinating concept. Susan Brown, I think, is heading up that. But it's interesting. It seems like the deeper you go, the bigger it gets. It's like, oh, maybe it's maybe it's in between heartbeats or maybe it's a combination between heart frequency and brain states. But the more that I start diving deep into there, I'm like, I don't know that you can measure the spiritual feelings we have. And I think that there's sort of a problem with technology right there or a lack of understanding. Like we have this incredible technology.

And we are desperately trying to find ways to measure things that are immeasurable. It's like trying to come up with a word that doesn't exist. It's like that same thing in psychedelics where like you're tripping your balls off, man. And you have this great idea, but you can't express it. You know what I mean? Like there's no linguistic pathway for it. What do you think is that, can you speak to that idea a little bit? No, this is very good.

You got a really good point there, George, because we're, you know, we got to be careful that, you know, we don't fall into this. Okay, look, let's take all of these amazing experiences that because I talked about traditions before, right? spiritual traditions. Right. Let's take all of these amazing learnings and the traditions, the experiences that people had over thousands of years passed on to each other and these set and settings and so on. And let's all,

you know, quantify them and measure them all of them, right? We reduce all of them to just a certain set of brainwaves, right? That's almost like saying, oh, love, that's just these neurotransmitters, right? It's just dopamine and serotonin and so on. No, love is more than just dopamine and serotonin.

Serotonin. Yes, it correlates with these neurotransmitters, but it's not just that, right? There's eternal quality to it too, right? And especially if you're talking about religious love. Like you talk about, for instance, the love of the Lord Jesus Christ, our Savior. Which is a universal love. Right. Which is a universal love, right? And somebody would come and say, okay, this is now, I'm breaking this down into dopamine and serotonin and something. No, wait, this is not, there is a metaphysical quality to this, right? There's a transcendent quality. And this transcendent quality you have in all of the authentic spiritual practices,

even in flow states. When you say flow states, yes. Okay, if somebody goes into a flow state and they're creating something which is, you know, it's their divine mission to do this, right? They're an artist. They're completely involved. They're creating something which, okay, they're really creating for eternity in that moment. Right?

Yeah. And they're just doing this, right? And then you can say, yeah, I took all of the vitals and all the physiognos. Here's all the numbers. I got all the exact breakdown of this person's body reaction. Yeah. And the faults and so on. Okay, good.

Not bad. But can you now emulate it? No, no. If it's not your mission, you know, if it's not your mission, you know, if it's not your, permission to be that transcendent artist, you know, you can't. So, so so while I'm all for this, right, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, learning to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, monitor and measure super important, right? But we shouldn't, we shouldn't, we shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that we can map and monitor and measure the transcendent, right? Yeah. Because that's a

trap. That's going to trap us if we, you know, we're going to be, we're going to miss the point. Yeah. You know, so. So. Now, if you're saying, is that forever impossible? Is it because our technologies are currently not, don't have access to the transcend dimensions? You know, then I don't know. You know, but I know with what we have right. If we're just looking at this 3D's, you know, dimensions,

yeah, there's something that eludes us. And this is also why all of the, you know, George, the sciences are currently going through this massive overhaul to this massive crowd, crisis, paradigm shift. They call it a paradigm shift. Sciences where all of these, all of the pioneering sciences, they have this one huge problem. They call it the problem of consciousness. They cannot explain why consciousness exists. Neuroscientists have dissected the brain every which way possible, right? And you cannot find any consciousness in there, right? You can only find electrical signals,

right? And similarly, physicists, they have looked at the fundamental dimensions, fundamental physics, you know, quantum physics and so on, looking at what's happening on the fundamental level of matter. And there is something that seems to be irreducible. There's different interpretations there, but there's something that seems to be irreducible with consciousness, right? And they can't, we, our current science cannot measure map and monitor consciousness, right? It can only measure its, it's, it's correlates. It's, you know, it's correlates that you're going to be in this state, your brain is going to do this. and so on and so forth.

But it can't really go all the way to capture that thing, which the spiritual traditions talk about when they say, you know, when they say the experience of the absolute. I would long to see why is it say the no absolutes? Why is it? What's the no, what's the connection between the no absolutes and the absolute of the spiritual traditions?

Can you tell me that? Ben probably can. I think that the fundamental premise of the book, No Absolutes, is that exactly what you're saying. Like, there's no way to pin down that which is irreducible. Like the hard problem of conscience, like you said, like you can't, there's a reason it's a hard problem because no one can figure it out. And no one has figured it out. You're not going to figure it out because you can't figure it out. It's not for you to figure out.

And the harder you look for something, it's elusive. It's like, you know what it is? is like the idea of the observer. You know, when you watch Schrodinger's cat, hey, how come when I watch it, it changes? Because you have an effect on it that you can't see or measure. And the fact you're trying to do it's going to make you crazy. And that's what's going on in our society.

Like you can't measure it. Like half of the people look at this and like, we've got to figure this thing out. The other people are like, you can't. It's just faith. I think that's a pretty good foundation of where we are. Some people want to know how to. I think part of the problem is the people that want to figure it out,

they want to figure it out so they can capture it. Does that kind of make sense? I want to figure out what, like I'll give you an example with psychedelics that I see. They're trying to figure out how do we, how do we, how do we capture the psychedelic experience so that we can patent it?

They want to patent it. You can't do it. But it doesn't stop them from trying. Like, we'll spend billions of dollars trying. Like, why don't you just take the mushroom and have it instead of trying to spend billion dollars to profit from it? I know I'm kind of birdwalking there a little bit, but yeah, I don't think it's possible to explain the transcendent. And we should get together and celebrate it instead of trying to grab hold of it and control it, right? Maybe that's what it is.

People want control. And they want to be the person that can have the development. divine spirit, they want to control it. I don't know, man. I'm not getting out in the weeds, man. What do you think? Yeah. No, this is a, this isn't, I, I like what you're, I like how you're seeing this.

I like how you're seeing this. Because, I mean, look, the, the truth is there are, there are some, you know, people, there are people who, there are people who are mainly motivated by their ego, right? Of course. That exists. And in the spiritual traditions, there's a name for that. You know, there's images of certain warnings of, okay, don't go this way. Otherwise, it doesn't end well for you.

You're going to go in the other spheres, you know. But some people make the decision that that's how they want to live. So metaphysically speaking, they want to be the cancer of the world, right? Because that's what the cancer is. Cancer is, it looks like it's growing, right? It looks like it's growing. It looks like it's doing really well. It's growing faster than everybody else even, right?

Like if you look at it like that cancer is a cell that decides that its own growth is more valuable than the survival of the host. Yes. It says like I don't care. Even if everybody else dies, I need to grow. Right. Yeah. It's that's egoism. That's the kind of, and that's in the spiritual tradition is called evil.

Unfortunately, right? They still have the, they will always still have the chance to repent. But, you know, and we all probably, you know, we all go through that. We all have to, there's nobody is perfect, right? Nobody goes to not having made that decision in certain points in life, having valorized themselves more than the big picture, right? Than everybody, then the growth of the whole, right?

To put it this way. But, but, okay, those people who, let's say, who have made that decision, right? what are they trying to do? They're trying to avoid the consequences of their actions. They're trying to avoid as long as possible, the consequences of their actions. Because they know that in the end, they're going to, you know, you can't go against God. You know, it's like it's futile, you know, like you're going to lose. You're going to lose.

You might have a good time along the way you think what's a good time. Right. You know, you're going to lose it. You are. And they know that. They know that. And they're trying to avoid the consequences of that decision for as long as possible. And one way to do that is to try to, what you were just saying now,

just to capture the transcendent through technology, right? Capture, like, if they're thinking, what if I can create technologies that allow me to have access to all infinite, you know, metaphysical experience? What if I can capture technologies that can make me immortal, you know, the mind of, upload the mind and have the mind live internally. Right. There are ways that people are trying to avoid or capture, right? That transcendent.

I don't know how you feel about that. Yeah, man. Do you like the cancer metaphor or the parasite metaphor better? Oh, I mean, what's the parasite? A parasite lives at the cost of the host as well, right? and but it's kind of limited in its growth. So the cancer is can grow unlimited. You know, it can grow unlimited.

I think, I mean, you know, both metaphors have something for them, but. Right. It's a very apt metaphor of what's what's, what's wrong. If something goes wrong in spiritual development, cancer is a really, really apt metaphor to capture that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think there's something in between those two metaphors. is like this idea of symbiosis. Like you need like something, maybe, okay, symbols speak louder than words, right? So if I say to you, I can sit here and talk about symbiosis and parasites and cancer, or I can say,

I can point to the yin and the yang sign. And there's that little spot of chaos, that dark spot in the white and that white spot in the dark is moving around, right? that balance is there. But when you're out of balance, then you have a parasite. You have this thing inside that is like,

I'm going to eat everything. Or you have this cancer that's going to die. On some level, that's where I see us, man. I agree that that's where we are as a planet right now. We are in the midst of either fighting this cancer, purging this parasite, or coming to terms with some sort of balance.

I think we're desperately trying. to find that right now. And like that's what leads to war. It's like, are we going to fight this thing? Are we going to give in? And once enough of the body, and I'm speaking about the planetary body, understands, okay, we're connected. There's just great, let me, can I tell you a quick story that kind of encapsulates this in my opinion? Yes, thank you for that. So one day, the hands say, hey, man, we're getting tired of picking all these things. And the legs go, yeah, man, we're getting tired of walking around. And like, we do all the, walking and the hands go, man, we do all the picking. And the mouse's like, man, I do all the

chewing. And the lazy stomach gets all the food, doesn't do anything. Just sit in there and gets all the food. So the hands go on strike and they don't pick anything. The legs go on strike and they quit working. And the mouse stops chewing. And all of a sudden, they realize, they start getting weak. They start getting sick. And they realize, hmm, maybe the stomach is doing something. Maybe this useless eater of a lazy stomach down here is actually providing all the nutrients and energy to us so that we can do the things we're doing. You know, and I think that that is the holistic approach that the world is desperately trying to figure out right now. Like it's really easy to look at all these people are lazy. These people are dumb.

No, this is a system and it works together in a way that can be better. It can definitely be better. We need to figure it out, man. And I think that people need to come to this idea. And I think that that is spiritual in nature. Coming to the idea that we're all connected here. We are a closed system. You're not going to put anything new in.

Like, this is a closed system. And it's going to work or it's not going to work. And it's way too heavy right now on one side. It's going to collapse. You know, and I think that's where spirituality comes. Now, what do you think about that? Yeah, this is a good, it's a nice metaphor. to think about.

But I think unfortunately the reality is that there are, to stay in that metaphor, there are some people right now who are thinking we can replace the stomach with, we can replace it with this tool, right?

Or we can replace. Look, there's some people thinking we don't need manual workers anymore soon because of automation and AI, right? And then large part of the population are going to be redundant, superfluous. We don't need them, right?

What do you think about that? Yeah. So that's what, there's some people thinking like that, like, okay, we can replace everybody. What do we do then? And then if there is going to be all of these people not working, right? And they also don't have the wealth because the wealth is going to be, you know, still with us. Even though, yeah, there's a lot of opportunities over the last 20, 30, 40 years due to tech. Tech has brought a lot of opportunity.

Everybody can start things much faster and easier. Now with AI, you can start your own venture quickly, right, for yourself. Yeah. You can do a lot. But nonetheless, on the big scale, on the global scale, right, actually the difference between the rich and the people who are not really doing much has become actually bigger, right? So a lot of people who are kind of, they're doing something, they're contributing something right now, but they could be replaced pretty quickly with what they're doing, right?

and that's going to talk, okay, what happens? You have all these people who don't have work, they need to take universal basic income, right? Otherwise, they might rebel at some point. They might kind of go on the streets or they might try to, you know. And then you get the idea that some people think that they don't, we don't need a large part of the, if you're, if in your metaphor, the stomach and the, I don't know, different organs,

if they represent different parts of humanity, then, yeah, we do have, unfortunately, some people will think that they can separate one part and have a head just in a vat, you know, like for, you know, like they think like, oh, we put the head in a vat and have robots do the work, and we can throw the rest of the body away, you know. This is some people thinking like this.

And not just, yeah, and they want to, you know, there's a real risk of what I call a breakaway civilization. There's a couple of authors who use this term. Yeah. But I think there's a real risk of some group of people, some elites, right, saying, okay, we want to create our own, we want to break away, we want to create our own strand, right, of new humanity, which we don't need the rest for. Also, this ties into transhumanism.

Transhumanism, we have all of these new technologies coming up where you can vastly expand your capabilities, intellectual, physical, right, in so many ways. You can actually modify your genetics. You can modify, you can mix it with CRISPR, Kast9, and all the things like that. So when that's, look, when that becomes operational, and it will. There's no way you can stop that, right? You can't just legislate for it not to happen, right? Somebody will offer it, somebody else somewhere in the world, right, for those who want it.

Right? So when that becomes operational, is it going to, how? How are we going to deal with that? Are we going to, is this going to be, just let's think this through. Oh, is this going to be mandated for everybody in the world to now upgrade all 8 billion people or 9 billion people? No, it's going to be accessible to a certain group of people. If so, that certain group of people, they're suddenly going to be super humans while everybody else is humans, right? They're suddenly going to be not just richer, but they're going to be in every possible way, like far vastly more capable.

like, you know, 50 times more intelligent, right, physically far more capable, right? And that, if you don't, you know, if we don't have a plan for this, if we don't have a plan for this, if we just say, yeah, you know, let's go with this, whatever and so on, you know, somehow the market will figure it out. Somehow the states will figure it out at the United Nations. Yeah, yeah. You know, like, yeah, what these guys are going to figure it out? What are going to kill each other?

Yeah, it's on the deal. How are they going to figure out? Like, yeah, China and U.S. and God know, and whatever they're going to get together and figure out. No, they're not. They're just going to, you know, it's just going to be the whoever, you know, the might is, you know, right, might is right kind of mentality of whoever can get away with it, they're going to do something.

Unless, unless we figure out a new, you know, we need to change so much. We need to change so much as humanity. to be able to be even able to deal with this with these new possibilities that are coming up. Right. Otherwise, it's going to become just complete dystopia. Yeah. It's going to be complete dystopia. There's so much.

Like, you can already see it happening. Like when I look at, you know, I was listening a while back to RFK, who's running for president in the U.S. on the Joe Rogan program. And I'm listening to these two guys. And real briefly, Joe Rogan says to RFK, man, you look great. What are you doing? He goes, oh, I'm on an anti-aging program. program. Real briefly, he talks about it. And, you know, Joe Rogan or RFK?

Both of them. Both of them are anti-ed different. But look at those two guys. Like, here's two guys, like, I think Joe Rogan's close to 60. I think RFK is probably at least 60 or older. These guys are jacked. Like, like, and you start thinking about it doesn't take a whole lot of digging to be like, oh, this guy's on an incredible TRT program plus growth hormone, plus some sort of no tropics. Like, They don't, they don't lie about it. And look at them. Like, those guys look great. Like, that's a diff, that's speciation right there on some level.

You know, it's like, wow. I'm doing all of that, you know. I started, and I started in my late 30s, you know, so like to say, like, I hope to, when I, you know, probably I got, we got a little bit of head start, like, but at time, you know, that age comes around. But, you know, yes, it's, it's, it's, you know, you can do, you can do a lot of things already now. but I think it's going to be dwarfed by the next layers and levels that are going to be unlocked, right, for modifying yourself, for advancing yourself. I think we're just kind of scratching the surface there, right, with all of these new things that are coming up.

And it's going to need more, it needs to be thought through more. I don't know where you were going with this because you just mentioned this. They don't want to cut you up there. What's your thinking there about the fact that, yes, people are now actively, pursuing, you know, self enhancement, human enhancement. Well, I think it speaks to this idea of the breakaway part of it. Because I think what you're seeing is a race between technology and biology. Like, I love, I love kind of neutra hacking, man.

Like there's a site called Science Bio, and they don't pay me any money. Science Bio, if you're listening, you probably should. It's a really cool site. And they have like all the brand new peptides, man, like research chemicals. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm not advocating for stuff, but go check out science bio, check out some of the peptides they have on there. And I've been my own guinea pig. And I'll tell you what, like there are certain things that you can take that make you think in ways you didn't know possible.

I'm like, oh my God, that makes plenty of sense. How the hell do I know that? Like, oh my God, this stuff's a fucking amazing. You know, and like, you know, once you take it, like, it is scary a little bit. I'm like, I'm, I function better on that. And that's a weird thing to think about. Like, okay, is it an addiction to want to be on it? Because you, are you really functioning better?

I don't thoroughly know that. But it seems to me there is a race between biology and technology. Now, if you, if you can take these substances that make you think different, like a peptide, a lot of these things are just analogs of like, say, magic mushrooms or psychics. You can find in nature. For me, like I took a pretty giant dose of magic mushrooms last night. I got some insights that changed my life. You know, I'm able to see my future.

I'm not telling people I can see the future, but I can see my future in a way that I didn't know what's possible. I can see things in my relationship that I need to work on and I can change them fast. Stuff that might take a year or two years in therapy, I can sit down with a giant dose of magic mushrooms and be like, okay, here's this huge problem that I have. I am not being honest with myself. Sometimes in this conversation with people I love, they're dismissive of me. Does that mean that they think that of me? Is that translating in their language in a conversation with another person? Yes, probably.

I should bring that up to them. We could solve that so it doesn't have to go further. Like, that can happen naturally. And so even though people, like, Bezos is another good one. Like if you look at the before and after of Bezos, before Amazon blew up, that guy was a different human being. Probably he's on, he's on all like the, all of the life extension stuff too, but, you know, it's, I don't know what role technology can beat there. I mean, can a chip, can you put a chip in your head that's going to make you better? Or are we, is biology pushing back on technology saying,

like, look, I can do it better. And I think that, I know I'm kind of birdwalking, but I think the biological realm, the earth has ways in which to enhance our cognitive abilities better than technology. What do you mean by that when you say biology, like, coming back at technology? Like, what do you mean by it? Okay. I think that a large part of the technology that we're putting in place today is confirmation bias. You know, like, what I mean is that, we asked me a question again.

I just lost it right there. Because you say it's going to be biology versus technology, like, or it's going to be, you know, biology could actually somehow prove to be even more capable of advancing us. What do you mean? Why is it? Yeah, what do you mean by that? Okay. Thank you.

You know, I think that biology, the world around us, the natural world around us, has all the answers. And it will reveal itself to us. Okay. Like right now, we have this limited idea that neurotransmitters are only inside our head, maybe in our stomach a little bit. But what about exogenous neurotransmitters? What about psilocybin? Like these are exogenous neurotransmitters, and when you adjust them, you get to speak to the world.

And now we're starting to open up our ideas about faith. Now we're starting to open up our ideas. Like, I can talk to the planet. I know people think that. I talk to the plants all the time. I did it last night. And I learned a lot. I learned more last night than I could learn in a year of school about symbology, language, what's happening on the planet.

Like that may seem crazy to people. but the world around us, the natural world around us is full of answers and ideas that are right there that we don't even know about. And we think technology is going to supplant that? Not at all. We just have to evolve to understand the bounty around us. That's what I mean by biological. Does that make sense? No, I totally get.

Now I understand. Now I understand. I'm just, I would just raise the thought or question whether that's biology. right, that has all the answers, or if that's a different term. Because when we say biology, we're kind of referring to, right, like this dual logical domain of, you know, this way.

So, you know, but because, because, okay, you talk to us suicide, and you have certain capabilities that, you know, that are very clear for people who have seriously engaged with these, right? With these, like, it's not, You, if you are, if you smoke DMT, right? For instance, you're not, you see if you have a high enough dosage, you're, that's a dimension where there are entities, which these are not made up in the sense of like,

you know, some random generator made these, you know, no, no, this is that this is, you can only think that if you had not had that experience, right? Because they're real, there's, there is a real, like those are the doors of perception, right? The doors of perception. You know, there is like, okay, bang, this is the, there is other dimensions to reality. Now, there is, you talked about things like premonition. You said like you had the, you had the, yesterday you took, you had the hit of suicide and you could see a future with certain things.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, look, a couple of decades ago, if you said this, people would think you're crazy, right? People think you're crazy. You don't take you, you know, like this person's outside of the consensus of what a rational person even talks about. You know, that's what it. That's how it would treat it. Like, you know, for a couple hundred years, like, oh, hey, the witches and the sources.

Yeah. So, but now we're switching the paradigm in science where more and more people are coming out to do. Look, here's statistical evidence, like, which is, you know, far beyond anything that could be random, that telepathy exists. Yes. This is real. There's lots of statistical studies at Princeton. The guy who has a whole, you know, Dean Radin, I don't know if you know him. He has a lab at Princeton, right, who's proven this time and again and again and again, again, right?

With so many studies, right? There's that you have perception across space. You have perception across time, right? Why? Because, well, consciousness is this field. It's connected, right? It's beyond, we already know this, that this is how people are saying. we already know this that, for instance, particles can be connected across space and time, right?

They're connected. So if we know this, physicists are telling us that particles are connected across vast kind of distances of space and time, right? And why would we not also think that, yes, thoughts and consciousness can also be connected across space and time, right? But now, here's the thing. When we take those, when we take, what did you call this exogenous neurotransmitters? We call this more like biological in the world, right, neurotransmitters. And that's a great way of talking about it. Because you can say these are neurotransmitters of the big brain, you know, of the big brain.

The flesh of God. Nature is kind of a brain too, right? It has its own neurotransmitters. Great way of talking about it. But here's the thing. So we can create those states. And the more I advance in my own journey, the more I'm coming to, because I did all of these substances. you know, like all the ones that, not the ones that are just damaging you, like, you know,

but the ones, the psychedelic ones, did all of them, right? Like experimented, you know, long kind of phases of explorations and such. But now, the more I'm advancing in my spiritual practice, the more I'm realizing that what some of these spiritual practitioners and teachers say is there a lot of truth to it that you can create those states internally through your practice, right? So what does that tell you? the fact that we can create states, and actually they can be even more reliable that way, right?

They can be even more reliable and more kind of purified, more easier to control, let me put it as a little bit easier to control, you know, because it's not just bang, you know, okay, you have to deal with this now. Oh, shit. You know, so, no, it's more control.

You know, it's a little bit more controlled. You're sitting there in your meditation, you know, and then you're starting to get glimpses of certain things, you know. And the fact that we can do this without, that we have, the innate ability. Yeah. So what was, what am I going with this?

You said biology. I'm not sure if it's, maybe it is biology. Maybe it is biology. Maybe it is what it does, when you say biology, does that include spirituality for you? Does that include spiritual experiences? Are they biological? Are they? Maybe they are.

I don't know. Maybe if you can see that, you know, you need to, any. living creature. Yeah. You say theology, it gets very, it goes into the, it goes into different. And people are talking about, oh, okay, like some people arguing about whether this and that. So spiritual, I don't know, spirituality.

Maybe we can say, maybe we can say spirituality, authentic spirituality, right? And then I would totally agree with what you're saying. 100% agree that we can't replace what, because how did you say this? said we're thinking that technology can replace all of that but then we experience that we learn that way the moment there is actually so much more still that we haven't even learned yet from our own biology and our own spirituality right things that we have access to already uh which could do which yeah which and they what now what if we do both well said what if we do both what if we use the technologies right and at the same time cultivate the

the natural intelligence, the innate intelligence, the spiritual intelligence, right? What if we do both? I think that's what's happening right now. I think that that's what AI is doing. I use AI all the time. And I start noticing patterns that like tapestry is a word that comes up all the time when people use generative of AI. Ask AI to write you a story and use the word tapestry.

I think on some level it's telling us. Maybe it's us telling us. Maybe it's the collective conscience tapping you. But it's starting to try to weave together, hey dummies, you're part of a tapestry. And like, whenever you see the word tapestry, I always think, oh, someone used AI for that. Like, maybe, maybe not. But the fact that I use AI and I'm starting to see these patterns come up means that I have a relationship with AI that's teaching me how to communicate better. And one of the biggest problems we have in the world is this lack of communication.

And it's not that we can't talk or make signals. It's that we can't convey meaning to one another. Like, that's the hardest part. And I think AI is working with us to help us solve that problem. Some people are afraid of whatever, but it's, it is both. And you're right. Like biology is not the right word. I don't know the right word to describe it, but I'm trying to think of it.

Like, because it's just one thing. There's a real, there's an image that comes to mind. I'm big on imagery. And I used to deliver to this on University of Hawaii, there was this building. And I would go in there. I had to bus through the door. And they had this amazing sculpture.

And it was like way in the back. And this sculpture was this. It was like, think of like a mirror. There's like a mirror in the middle. And on one side, there was a human figure made out of branches. And it was pushing on that mirror. And on the other side of the mirror was this thing made out of like, e-waste. So it had like circuits and computer parts and it was pushing on there.

I remember just sitting in front of that piece of artwork and being like, why is this not like in the middle of the quad and like everybody's staring at it? It's pushed way in the back and nowhere ever got a side. I'm like, this is us right here. Like it's such a wonderful metaphor to see these two forces pushing on each other. You know, like it doesn't have to be combative. You know, it doesn't have to be, we got to take this over. We've got to take that over. We've got to extract this. It can be like, hey, we are working together to become better. And I just think we're limited in our ability to understand what's happening. But maybe that, maybe is this thing coming together and it just looks messy, man. What do you think? Yeah. I mean, first of all,

there's somebody here is a LinkedIn user. I don't know what the name, but yeah. I like what they're saying. You know, I just wanted to kind of acknowledge that. I like what they're saying. Yeah, let's go through these comments for a minute, man, and participate a little bit. Okay, so let me start off here with. We have this LinkedIn user. This one comes in. It says, we should be working on improving our brain functioning instead of AI. Why do human beings always have to replace another being or thing?

Can we learn the boundaries of our brains? Are you going to take that one? What do you think? Yeah, this is from Nancy. And this connects with what you were just saying. Like, is this already emerging, this fusion, symbiotic fusion of AI in humans, you know. And Nancy says we should improve, should we improve our brain functioning instead of AI, right? Why do we have to always replace another being or thing?

Why can't we learn the boundaries of our brains? Yeah. So there's this whole talk of, you know, the more you're out. So, you know, in some ways, we all have a brain prosthetic already in our smartphones, right? Smartphones are a brain prosthetic. Like you're, you know, somebody who grew up with, you can see your kids. Kids who grew up with smartphones, they are, they think they work, their brain works different. You know, different than kids that didn't have that, right?

It's completely, it just operates differently, right? Yeah. Because that's part of their brain almost, right? You know. And, and now you're saying now our next generations, we're going to have a functioning conversational AI. And at some point, imagine a conversational AI doesn't even need you to type anymore. It's just in your head right away, right? Or it's just directly connected with your neurons.

Okay, now it's more than it just, okay, this is now, you have outsourced a vast part of memory and kind of connections between things and all of that. You have outsourced that to the AI, right? And in some ways, people who are, I think there's already some early studies on this, that it impairs certain capabilities to use AI a lot, you know, to do this new conversational AI, to use that a lot, impair certain capabilities. But on the other hand, obviously gives you vast new capabilities, right?

You have the whole Internet is the whole collected knowledge, human knowledge, is at your fingertips, you know, just integrate it right away, whatever you want to say, right? So is this already a new form of, is this already a new, symbiotic intelligence, a new meta-intelligence, human-machine intelligence, right? Yeah, I think this is already a new form of intelligence, certainly, never existed before in history. It never existed in whatever billion years of Earth, right? Or a million years of human history never existed before, right?

So, but is that should we now to come finally, like long-winded way to come to Nancy's question, Should we, is that good? And this also connects to what we said at the very beginning of our conversation. George Johnson says, is progress, innovation always good, right? Or no, do we need a wise innovation, right? And I say to that, yes, there is actually vast dangers if we are uncritically just say, oh, this is great, more, more, more, more, more. Tomorrow they're going to say to you, do you want a chip in your brain?

And, you know, you're going to get faster access to all of this. You can comment, everything. And it's meta that gives you the brain chip, right? in meta. It's like, here's our next model of the brain. You know, we just want access to whatever you're thinking in return. You know, like, and we have some, you know, we have some terms of conditions, you know. It's like, but, you know, it's for free.

You can get the chip for free, you know. Like here for free. You want this, right? So, yeah, a lot of people will take it. Yeah, sure, I'm down. You know, I'm down. Yeah. And that's a slippery slope right there.

Yeah. like the most slippery slope in human history, right? Because that can lead to extreme dystopian scenarios, extremely dystopian scenarios, right? That we can't even imagine right now. We're already saying right now that social media is manipulating people and so on. So what's next? If it's directly in your brain, right?

So I think there's huge dangers involved in just saying, okay, more, more, more tech without any, critical introspection without any kind of asking, okay, where's the boundaries? How does this work? And there's a lot to be said for what Nancy is saying here that, okay, we should actually go to, we should work on our internal resources. We should work on what you call the biology, the spirituality, right? Yeah. And then find, find, find, find intelligent models, find wise models. let's say this, wise models, like models informed by wisdom, right? And that in which we can use these technologies, right?

But not blindly just, okay, everything that comes. And I love new innovation, so I will use the next thing that comes out. I'm sure you do too, right? Because, okay, we love the new, you know, the new capabilities that you have with it. But super important, super important to create the awareness and the models for how people can have a wise use of technologies that still allows them the personal, spiritual, holistic development. All right. I think this is going to be the most important battle or the most, I don't want to even call it the most important kind of challenge, right, that we're going to have. collectively over the next couple of decades.

Yeah, I got, on some level, I think you're beginning to speak to the idea of accelerationism. You know, what's your take on that, that particular? Accelerationism, as in the, there's a couple of people. Actually, the guy who wrote the book, is that, you know, are you referring to the book that was written by Nick? Nick's. I think that is it. Like, yes, I am.

Yeah. Yeah, I know him pretty well. You know, we were doing philosophy together in London, you know, 15 years ago. But 12 years ago, 15 years ago. And yeah, and that whole group of people, you know, and there basically, they came up with this out of the, it's a very strange position. It's a UK thing. It's grown out of England where I did my philosophy PhD, you know, in that. in that kind of milieu with a lot of those people.

Yeah. And it's basically, this was people who were, they were a bit disappointed with, they were very disappointed with where society is going, right? And then they took this idea that the only way it's going to get better if it gets much worse first, you know. And we need to now just invest everything into, and support in every way,

possible, like everything that's that's taking society, accelerate, right? Accelerate all of these. Basically, what I was doing, when I was saying disruptive innovation, right? So you've got people who are who are just supporting disruptive innovation just because it's cool or just because there's money in it, you know, without questioning, is this wise or not? And then you got weirdly these accelerationists who also supporting everything about it, but not because they want it, but because they think that everything is, the world is bad. and only if it gets much worse, it's going to get better after it.

Right? We need to accelerate everything, right? They need to accelerate everything in order to then somehow magically, magically then they will emerge. And this goes back to something, you know, where Marx, call Marx said somewhere that there's these stages of economic development. And then after, you know, it's kind of automatically leads to the best, form eventually. So if we're not there yet, we just need to push harder and harder.

You know, so and this is a very, I mean, you can already tell, I'm not friend of in any way of accelerationism because it's just insane. It's just thinking like what how how is anything good going to come out by exacerbating, you know, by making everything worse, right? Accelerationism, if that's what you're referring to that, that movement or that thought, you know, that philosophy. It says that, right, yeah, we should just make disruptive innovation, take it to the infinite, you know, and then somehow it will get so bad that, that, you know, things will get good, you know, things better, things will come out of it. I don't believe in that.

I think we should create, as I was saying, I think we should create experiments for a, you know, my position is the, is Buckminster Fuller's one. Yeah. Right? We should create experiments for, for a new design of, you know, for. of human machine integration and for planetary interactions. And even if they're just experiments right now, even if they're just zones right now,

even if they're not already like, okay, you don't need to already say, here's the system for the whole to solve every problem in the world or the world economy or whatever. But you can say we create a system, we create something that's an experiment that shows you how we can do things better. Right.

And because that's how it creates momentary. momentum. I guess momentum, people join, you know, people join, people see, people learn, people practice, people share. What, George, are you, I mean, you know, are you seeing yourself and you're in Hawaii, right? I am, yeah. Yeah. Are you seeing yourself any worthwhile projects, experiments, which are around technology, social developments, virtual development, these things coming together, like holistically. Are you seeing any? There's, there's, there.

You're talking to so many people. So I'm sure you must, you know, you must have some that you're, that come to mind. Yeah, I'm about six months ago, maybe a little bit longer six months ago. There was like this incredible devastating fire in Maui. You know, I don't know what caused those fires, but I do know that the town of Lahaina was eradicated. You know, and it's really interesting. There's all these weird things.

that happened there. Sometimes I'm kind of conspiracy-minded. I don't know. I know that all the people that were really, all the chiefs, like I'm not even, I don't mean chiefs like Hawaiian people have chiefs. I mean like the chief of police, the chief of the fire department, the chief of staff, like all the chiefs of Maui were over here at a FEMA camp when that place burned down. Like that's really convenient, you know, especially like, and I don't know what happened, but what I did see happen because of that was a friend of mine who's one of the largest landowners in Maui and he's a huge fan of mushrooms and cultivating in the land and he's he's steeped in tradition he figured out okay I don't know what happened but I know it was a clean water crisis

I can build these mycelium socks to clean the water and all of a sudden he reaches out to a bunch of people on his farm people start coming there he reaches out to people on LinkedIn and you have people from around the world coming to help him with these new innovative technologies that are holistic. Like they're using fungus as a natural way to filter water from buildings that have been built with asbestos. They're naturally figuring out, you know, oh, we can use nature to solve this problem that we did. That is an incredibly innovative way that marries technology with traditional. and I'm seeing it emerge

and it's coming from these crises. That gives me a lot of hope. Like, oh, maybe there is a grand plan. Like maybe we messed things up a little bit and nature's coming around like, are you guys done yet? Are you guys done yet?

Like a father or a mother like, okay, how much further should I let you go? You big dummy. Look at this mess you made. I'm going to show you how to clean it up. But first I want you to look at it. Rub your face in and a little. little bit. But I see it happening. I do. I see that happening right here in my home state.

Another thing that I see happening to is people's attitude toward working jobs that are meaning less. You know, all of us can go and find meaning at our job, but people are beginning to understand, what am I doing? And I think COVID had a big part of this. Like, what am I doing? I get up, I get up five in the morning. I take my beautiful daughter to schools, like an hour. and a half ride. And then I go to work. It's another 30 minutes. So it's five in the morning. By the time I get to work, it's 8 o'clock. I'm going to work there for 12 hours. Come home. I get home. Everybody's sleeping. I spent no time talking to my wife. Couldn't help with homework. But you know what? I made 500 bucks today. Like that is such a horrible, horrible way to live your life. And I get it,

but people are trapped in this idea that you think you're providing, but you're not. You're taking away from your life. And the system is, I think, it's an intelligence. system and it's going, okay, people start waking up. This is wrong. You can't do this. Like, you are creating a worse life for you in the planet by getting away from first principles. So I think that, like, I don't know if it's a technology. I don't know if it's biology, but I see this thing happening where people are awakening to these ideas of like, look, man. And I think it's an innate intelligence. And maybe it's artificial intelligence combined with innate intelligence, but I see that moving. man, like, I'm totally inspired by it.

Like, I quit my job. Well, I quit my job. If I quit, I mean, I was escorted out by security in front of a lot of people yelling at me. That's how I quit, right? But I want to, I think that there's a point there. I think that more people should be doing that. You should be getting, and maybe you have to get to a point where you're losing it. Maybe you have to get to a point where you're so mad.

You have all this misplaced anger and you're a horrible person. And then you stop and be like, me, I'm the problem. It's not Dr. B. It's not my work. It's me. I'm doing it wrong. You know, so I have talked to a lot of different people. And that is what I see when I talk to people.

Is the same thing that's happened to me is happening to all these other people. And it's happening to a lot of different people in a lot of different ways. I spoke to a woman yesterday who was a dentist. And she was a dancer first. She had her own dance student. She was a dentist. And, you know, she didn't love being a dentist. And all of a sudden she got this crazy problem where, like, out of nowhere, her hands started cramping up.

She's like, oh, my God, I can't be a dentist anymore. She said it got so bad. She tried to fight it for a year. She would go and get acupuncture and it would help. And then one day she was doing like a root canal in her hand cramped up. And I was like, that's the world telling you you shouldn't be a dentist. You know what I mean? So I think this is a long-winded way of saying what I see happening in the world is us awakening to ourselves, man.

what do you think yeah I don't know if that's only aught or if that's something that every generation or every past generation always again went through you know are you when you're saying this is happening or are you referring to is this something that's happening only now like I think it's I think it has to do with like when I look at the population as a body the boomer generation is a giant generation and they are dying a giant part of us is dying and what we are seeing is the manifestation of their unrealized dreams their unrealistic ideas dying with them and these are the death throes of a generation dying and like a lot of the boomers had some great ideas but they also had a lot of dumb ideas and they don't want to let them go and like we are all subject to the

ideas of the people in positions of authority. And that's what, like, I seem like a shedding of a skin in some ways. And I don't mean to be flipping about a generation of people I love dying, but it's necessary. And so I think that what's happening when I say awaken, I think that there's a new generation of leaders being allowed. Information is now being revealed to them, a passing of the torch on an environmental level that most people can understand. Hey, we need new leaders and new ideas.

and this is a time of our planet giving sentient messaging to people willing to take a chance. The new ideas being born are being given to us right now as the older generation dies. So I think it is a generational thing. There's a great book called The Fourth Turning that talks about all these generational cycles that happen. But yeah, maybe it does happen every generation. But I think we're to maybe it's just me. Maybe it's me turning 50. Maybe this is me seeing things.

You know, I don't mean projecting it onto the world. But I think so. What's your take on the world population as a body and the boomers dying? That's what's causing all this chaos. I don't know. I don't know if, you know, the boomers specifically, George, because, yeah, look, I mean, I look at archetypal cosmological cycles, right? And then you can see that there is, even if in the bigger picture, you can look 100,000 years.

You can see, okay, there is these. cycles, there's some cycles that are 400 years, 200 years, 100 years, and so on. And there are certain signatures. Okay, every generation, you know, has a specific role, specific symbolic energy that they represent, which then shows itself in their art, in their opinions, in their ideology, the music, and so on, what they believe, right? And, yeah, but this is going on. This is always going on, right?

If you went to the Roman time, you can see the Romans are writing like, this, generation is now going finally with their old ideas and now this new generation is they had that same you know kind of cycle there right exact same ones right so this is 2000 years ago right so yeah I don't think that it's so this is anything extremely special about the boomers or gen Z or X or Millennium whatever the ones that are here right now but what I do think is and this is maybe I don't know if everybody is on board with this or believes this, but in the spiritual traditions, in the spiritual traditions,

there's not just a lot of the people who are close to the spiritual traditions, they are now going and doing a new age thing and everything is, you know, everything is mix and match from everywhere and everything is light and good. It's kind of a little bit superficial. But they're because they're not engaging with the hard parts of the tradition. You know, the kind of the challenging, difficult parts and the ones that are requiring much more than just like a feel-good kind of mix and match, right? Because if you look at the traditions, they all talk about the serious ones. They talk about things going towards a certain great challenge where things get darker, right?

And if things do get darker towards the end, right? towards the end. The end is not necessarily, okay, how do I understand? Look, in the, whether you call this the Kali Yuga, in the Indian tradition, it's called Kaliuga, or you talk about the apocalypse, right? The revelation, coming apocalypse, right? Which we have the book of revelation. There's like a lot of, there's a lot of advice and guidance given to us, right? So traditions, they talk about this coming of the darker age, which we're in now. We're in an age where we just found out that a very large percentage, a large number of the most powerful people in the world for years went on some God-forsaken island somewhere with the sky, right and did god knows what there right and and and who the list of all these people who are like these are the best kind of the most you know the most kind of accomplished people in society you know

yeah who are supposed to be the role models and the in the leaders and whatnot and you know and they're part of some kind of you know so they're part of dark groups you know this is this is now known you know it's just not anymore like some conspiracy theory you know right right right crazy, conspiracy there is this known, right? So, so that tells me that, okay, and not just that, there's many observations like that. There's many, many observations like that.

Okay, we're going towards a darker age now. It's a darker age now. It's not a, right? It doesn't, now, there's, how do I interpret it? Does it mean that, okay, oh, you have to be scriptural fundamentalist and whatnot? That's not what I'm saying, right? That's not what I'm saying. I'm trying to get a, I'm trying to get an interpretation that makes sense in our,

in our age, you know, because I believe that there's truth in those in those traditions, but they need to be understood and interpreted for today. Because look, you were saying you took yesterday, you took the mushroom trip and you could see things about the future, right? Right. Now, now, okay, then how can we doubt that there were some prophetic individuals, right, with 2,000 years ago? They could see what 2,000 years in the future.

was going to happen, right? Obviously, when they saw it, they wouldn't put it in the language of, you know, oh, there's going to be this super intelligent AI and there's going to have robots and drones and it's going to have people's brains connected and there's going to be a war between these three superpowers and then it's going to lead to this.

They would say it in the words that, you know, make sense in their language, you know, but if you read what they were saying, you know, this is really close to what's happening where we're going now. You know, this is really close. It's just put in symbolic language. in the symbolic language that was their language 2,000 years ago.

You know? So where am I going with this? I think that despite all of these ups and downs of the generations, you know, coming generations, coming going generations and so on, I think there is this general tendency where we're going towards a time which is going to be more dark and where the people who want to work on creating a new world, world or a new, a new Eden or a new create, a new world where people can be free, right? Yeah. They have to, first of all, they have to be vigilant because they're going to be tempted all the time. They can be tempted all the time again and again and again. They need to be vigilant.

They can be co-opted and tempted and be bought up and used and integrated into the systems that are doing the opposite of what they're saying. That's the first thing. And nobody's going to be free of that temptation. Nobody's going to stand above that, you know. that's one. And the second thing is they have to probably accept that, okay, it's going to take some time. You're not necessarily right now going to, you know, be the, being the place where, when you're saying seeding these new thoughts and new ideas, okay, it's not necessarily going to be, oh, okay, now tomorrow comes the great success of the, you know, now everybody suddenly is liberated and, you know, everybody's experiencing, you know, everybody's experiencing. You know, everybody's experience. You know, everybody's experience. experiencing these higher states of consciousness and overcoming their ego limitations. And suddenly we're solving all the world's problems and so.

And that's not going to happen so soon. It's probably, you know, it's probably not. It's probably will get worse before it gets better. But that doesn't mean that I got to be like the accelerations and support it, you know, like cheer cheerleader for it. Yeah. It's, it's interesting to think about how much hard work and sacrifice. sacrifice are necessary to get something moving.

You know, a lot of the people, if you look back at Isaiah, a lot of the prophets, like they look at the book of Job when this guy had everything taken away from him and still he had faith. You know, when I read that story, I find it inspiring like, okay, I'm going to have all this taken away from me. And I'm still going to get up and still tell my daughter how much I love her and my wife and still put a big smile on my face and tell people how awesome they. are in spite of things that are happening to me.

Like that's, there's so much power in, in the, in the, in the, in the, in our, in our spiritual nature. Like, those stories run deep. Like that, hopefully is the code on which more people run their life, because that code has run for a long time. And it, it, it speaks to the idea of transcendence. You know, I don't know that anything else speaks to the idea of transcendence. It's, it's mesmerizing, man.

I love it. Beautiful. Dr. Vee, this is incredible. I had such a great conference. This is so much fun, man. If I had more time, we would be talking for another hour and a half, I think. But this is really, really fun. I think that we touched on so many cool things,

but at the same time, I think we just scratched the surface, man. I think there's so much more we could talk about. I'm thankful. I love it. It was a beautiful conversation. Thank you so much, George, for facilitating this and being in the flow with everything that was emerging throughout this. and also for the people that maybe not,

we didn't maybe respond to every comment. Let's check them out real fast. Are you okay on time? Okay, let's go. I would love to make sure that we talk to all of everyone who took a time, everyone who took some moments to hang out with us. I would like to make sure that they get timed over here. So my friend Ben comes back and he says,

our perception of what is filtered through our model of what we reason is. If we haven't reasoned our own model, we try others on as the fit needs like the spiritual wardrobe of life Q I don't know what that means in Latin I know that means something in Latin you know what that means

no um Q Seguwe yeah cute segue segue oh Q Seguwee yeah well there we go thought it was some sort of Latin term I didn't know about I'm like oh man is that like

Q segue I agree our perceptions are our perception is what it's filtered through and each as an individual maybe this speaks to the idea of community and worshiping together like we only as an individual

you only have a fragment right and when you sit down with somebody like our conversation today or have been with here all three of us could get to share the lens of it on some level I just I don't I don't know that an individual could ever have could only have but a piece of the puzzle right

I think maybe that's, there's something in there. All right, here we go. I know when my loved one get me thinking about them, they'll call or I'll feel them strongly and they show up on my front door. I think that is speaking to the idea of the spirit never really leaves. You know, if you really want to call your ancestors, they're there to help you, I think. What's your take on that? Long one, what can we think about that?

Yeah, I think this wasn't the context of where we were talking about telepathy because I think Nancy was saying also that she had the experience, if I'm not mistaken, it was the same poster, who said that she had the experience of, you know, things that we can't really, we can't really explain in the, and there's so many other, there's so many other stories like this, you know, I think the experience of you call, somebody calls that you're just thinking about in the moment, that is so widespread that a lot of people can completely confirm that in their lived experience and evidence. And it's like, you know, if you speak to us, these skeptics,

you know, they will say, oh, this is all make-belief, you know, this is all like, because it happens sometimes, then you kind of, you forgot all the times when it didn't happen, you know, when we thought about that on the meeting call. Yeah. That's not how it is, like, because it's so kind of, It's so on point. You know, it's so on point. For me, at least, you know, I know that this is connected. It's got much, much more the kind of cleaner I got my receptors. Yeah.

Because when you're, if you're just kind of full of, if your thought, imagine if your mental state is really kind of, you know, you're obstructed by all these very distracting thoughts and anger, all kinds of things. And I don't know. You never work on yourself. You probably don't receive. even if it's there out there, right? Yeah. So if your receptors get cleaner, right? If you clean them and you're able to have some, you know, for instance,

if you're able to calm your thoughts in meditation, this is very difficult for a lot of people. They cannot calm their thoughts, right? They can't sit down and just switch off completely your thoughts, right? It's super, it's very difficult for me for a long, for a long time. But at some point you learn, you gain the ability of just switching off completely your thoughts, right? Yeah. In completely silent.

that's actually a step towards towards cleaning your what I just called the receptors, right? Because you don't have these distraction signals anymore. The noise is not there anymore. It's kind of on the signal. Things that's just there. You don't want it.

It's just there, right? Yeah. So once that dies down, I think these experiences get so much more evident and so much more often they happen. Yeah. That, you know, there's no way for you to to discard that evidence.

I mean, you know, it's just crystal clear. And then there's also examples of that are that are far more, you know, far more specific, you know, like my mother has several times just dreamt things. And then the next day she said, you know, I dreamt you did this. I'm like, okay, do you have some CCTV cameras here? Like, you know, I dreamt you did this, you know. Like, okay, I just did it. It's true. And, you know, that's like way too specific, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah, it's, I love the idea of the noise versus the signal. Like you have to quiet the noise so you can hear the signal. And it's difficult to know how to get rid of the noise, right? And there's distractions all around you so that you don't hear the signal. Look at this thing.

Look at this. This over here. You got that over there. Like on some level, you know, there's a lot of competition for the real estate between your ears and the signal and the noise right there. What else do we got here? We got, why do, okay, this is a pretty interesting. Why do animals understand our feelings? There's a great researcher called Rupert Sheldrake,

and he speaks about morphic fields, and he's done this particular experiment that is repeatable, where dogs tend to wait at the door 20 minutes or something before their owner comes home. You know, like people that, if it put cameras there, and the dogs just wait for them. Even my cats too, like my cats know. Like, how do they know that?

And again, the skeptics are like, well, they don't know. They're just hungry or it's their instincts. But Rupert Sheldrake, in my opinion, has really proven that there is a form of communication and morphic fields that some of us can touch into. Probably all of us can if you clean the receptors. But what's your take on how to animals understand our feelings? I have to admit, I can't give any firsthand insights on this. I never had a pet.

So, and I want to change this. My wife, on the other hand, she had before she grew up in a household with, I think, 14 dogs, 15 dogs. Wow. And she keeps telling me that, you know, this is a good, and now I've come around to this. So we're going to get a dog. So we're going to start with one. But maybe two of us, you know, let's see where that goes. But yeah, this is actually a.

a very profound. I've had connections with animals before, but I think it's still different if it's your pet. Your pet, because then they develop such a strong bond with you and even a spiritual link with you. But again, I can't

talk too much on that yet. Yeah. It's interesting. I think that on some level, I think we're all part of nature. So, yeah. Nice. All right.

I got, there's so many awesome, man, there's so many, first off, thank you to everybody for commenting right here. I find myself at a pinch though, because I have to, I gotta wrap it up, man, but there's so many comments. Thank you to everybody. There's so many great ones, man. It's good, it's a good, good thought. It is.

It is. I'm super thankful, Dr. Pee, but before I let you go, where can people find you? What do you have coming up and what are you excited about? I got a lot of things coming up, but I don't want to dwell too much on it. But find me, actually, I'm just relaunching my socials. They're not very active, but you can find me the real Dr. B. They're going to be all the real Dr. V.

YouTube, the real Dr. V. I'm just relaunching that right now. So there's going to be a lot of content on there, and you can see what I'm doing. I got a lot of things. This would be a whole not a podcast now for what I've got up coming up. I've got a book coming up and the new venture and add some new content that I'm creating. But yeah, I've got to leave it at that. Right.

All right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, Ben, Nancy, Jeff. Everybody, thank you so much for chiming in today. We really appreciate it. Go down to the links. Check out Dr. V on LinkedIn. That'll be down there. Reach out to him.

Incredible individual. Really fun to talk to. I'm sure he'll be back. Are we having longer conversations? That's all we got for today. Enjoy your weekend. Check out your spirituality, live your best life, become the most authentic version of yourself and the world will reward you. Hang on, Dr. V briefly afterwards. Everybody else, I love you. Aloha.