TrueLife - The Cumulative Collective Memory of Our Species

Episode Date: September 8, 2022

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/https://benjamincgeorge.com/https://benjamincgeorge.com/product/no-absolutes-a-framework-for-life/https://linktr.ee/TrueLifepodcastLadies & Gentleman today we shall cover a wide range of topics. Feel free to jump in on the live stream and be part of the AMA. One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear, Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. It's George and George coming at you with all kinds of interesting topics for you to think about, maybe laugh at, and hopefully participate in Benjamin C. George. How are you doing, my friend? Another day in paradise, brother. How about yourself?

You know what? I'm happy to be here. It's the middle of the week, and I'm always looking forward to these conversations. You know, I have found myself revisiting some of the, some of what were a series of talks called The Trilogs, and it was with Ralph Abram, Terence McKenna, and Rupert Sheldrake.

And there's just so much interesting, ideas put forth in this trilogue and I was revisiting some of the ideas of Rupert Shell Break and Shell Drake and he had gotten to this idea about evolutionary

creativity and you know how can the habits of nature evolve and it just got me thinking like is nature does nature have habits you know and you start I had to think about that for a while and I began thinking

about, you know, if we look at the way, the cyclical nature of creation, the cyclical nature of evolution, and we look at our own life and a series of patterns that we repeat in our own life. And I think we could say that, yeah, if we are a product of this earth, if we don't come into this world, we come out of it, and we have habits, then the nature has habits. What do you think about that? I, you know, I think this is the, you know, kind of where you start to blend into terms, right? Because for us, we call it habits. For nature, we call it cycles or epochs or, you know, other associative names. But in essence, you know, it is a habit.

If you were to look at it at a larger scale and if you were to zoom out and take the lifespan of you stretch it out to, you know, billions of years, you could call it habitual. But, you know, and then what is a habit? You know, for us, it's something that arrives because of our environments, our, you know, our nurture, you know, what we're surrounded by. You know, there's the old saying, your reflection with the five people you spend the most time with, right? Yeah. And that forms a lot into our habits. So, you know, that immediate environment, that external environment combining with our internal environment is where we kind of form. our habits, you can look at the system of nature in similar fashion.

And it's interesting because you can extrapolate that to, you know, as above, so below, and look at us and then internalize all the machinations and systems inside of us that are doing all these things, that without those cyclical, like our circadian cycles and our trinian cycles and things like this, that influence ourselves and our timing and all of that, You know, those are habits, you know, themselves, but they allow us to maintain and grow our own habits at a macro level. So I think there's definitely, you know, there's something to be extracted from them. I think whenever we can find the comparison between nature and ourselves, I think there's a lot of value to extract from that. You know, take, you know, take a note or two from it.

Yeah. I would have to agree. That's well put. It brings me to another point of the existence of a kind of memory inherent in each organism. I probably, maybe you've heard of this study. It's called like this, and I'm probably going to butcher it, but maybe you can pull me back from the edge if I begin butchering it too much. It's like the 100th monkey syndrome.

And the idea or the thought program was something like there was these islands. and on this one island, each island had similar monkeys. And on one island, one monkey began figuring out how to take a shell and crack it against a rock. And there was a group of scientists that went to one island and no monkeys on this one island were doing this particular set of behaviors. They went to this other island and they noticed that this other monkey began doing it. A week later, they went back to the other island. And on that island, every monkey was doing it. So you can make the argument they just didn't see it.

the thought experiment says that once one individual in a species learned something, there's some sort of shared memory or morphogenic feel that allows other people to tap into that particular behavior. Have you heard of that? And what do you think about that? Well, you know, we see it in humans too. The first person to break the four minute mile, it couldn't be done. But then after that, 100 people did it like it was nothing. And, you know, I think we observed this in art and culture just in general. And then if you look at historically, like science inventions, we were talking about black powder on Sunday.

You know, that was invented independently around the same time thousands of miles away. Now, we might not have the full picture of the actual communication systems at that time, and we might be missing a bit of that picture. But we do have modern evidence like the four-minute mile. And, you know, also, especially when people start talking about something, and then all of a sudden you just see it kind of hit the zeitist. Yeah. With, you know, yeah, we call it going viral, but how much of it is, you know, assisted by our technology and how much of it is, is that there's so much concentrated thought on a single idea that it's now kind of perpetuating itself. Not by means that we're necessarily used to in how we measure the perpetuation in ideas.

but yeah, you know, access. It's been called the Akasha field, right? Right. And orthogenic field. There's been names through it from antiquity. So, you know, and then in my theory of information, I would call that information. And tapping into those types of ideas is very probable thing

as we're just kind of a giant transient in one perspective. Yeah. And this gets us to our title, the archaic techniques of ecstasy. It seems to me, whether you're on a salvia trip or whether you are on a high dose psilocybin trip or LSD or pick your agent of change, for me it's mostly been the psychedelics.

And the best ones usually come after I have somewhat purified my body, whether it's fasting or, you know, maintaining a certain type of diet or, you know, Kevin Holt says that he he likes to begin his by going to a sweat lodge or some sort of purification. And once you have ingested it purified, then you seem to reach this plane. It's almost an out-of-body plane, which may be that morphogenic field, which may be the tapping into the Akashic records, but it's a higher form of yourself or a higher sense of knowing. And it does seem at times at those states, like you're really beginning to receive

a different flow of information, a different wavelength, or, you know, tapping into something else. And that's, from everything I've read about some of the mystics of antiquity, it seems that that's what they were reaching into when they came back with these great ideas, and then they were able to spread it out and begin implementing this idea. What do you think that that is happening today on a even greater level? if we talk about the four-minute mile and people beginning to do it once they saw it, it seems like so many people are into psychedelics now. Do you think that that is perhaps a quickening of this new field or a quickening of information being distributed?

A quickening. Are we getting into the Highlander stuff here? It can be only one. Yeah. You know, it is interesting. There is an uptick, right? Now, how much of that is simply because there's more of much communicating that'll be hard to measure but at the same time there does seem to be a you know and we've talked about it in other ways there's kind of like a spiritual reawaking for a lot of people and it's not necessarily in any context of religion but more so in people searching out their own paths um and in realizing that the structures that you know exist today just don't fill that hole, that void inside of all of us, and it leaves something to be wanting.

And I think, you know, when something's to be wanted, we have this natural inclination to explore. And I think, you know, that awakening of, you know, that was the Enlightenment journey, right? This is, you know, this is the hero's journey. This has been a story retold for as long as we've been retelling stories. And I think we're definitely an interesting chapter of that story. And I definitely would say, you know, not to rip off Highlander, but there is a quickening of things. There is a rapidity to the uptick in people's thirst for knowledge and desire for answers. Yeah. I often wonder if the next, you know, if this, if the next hundred years in the, a lot of people think that the, that the next frontier is going to be

space. And I would agree, but the only question is, is that outer space or is it inner space? I think that we're able to see a lot of exploration, the same way we saw Vasco to Gamma and, you know, pick your, pick your explorer that exploited, but crossed over the seas. You know, there was, when we look at the history that I was taught, you know, you look at, and I realized to everybody, Listen, I realize the ideas about Columbus and maybe he's not a, I get all of it. I get all of the political correctness. However, I'm just saying as far as people who cross the sea to discover new lands, even though they're not new, you know, the people crossed over these and did all this exploration.

It seems like that same spirit of exploration has taken hold in the individual. And there's never been a better chance to find El Dorado than to look within. What do you think about this exploration of the inner? Well, I think in order for us to truly understand our environment, first you have to understand yourself. And I think there is a, you know, I wouldn't say a large contingent, but a small group of people who have realized this and have taken upon themselves to figure out who they are, you know, what they want to do in this world. And I would say that back then it was, you know, there was probably similar in things, but there was much more restricted factors. You know, we have a little bit more freedom when it comes to the ability to travel distances. You know, we have a lot more freedom when it comes to the ability to communicate.

And I think those lend themselves to, you know, fostering these movements. And I think we are in the midst that, you know, we're seeing a new movement, new evolution of ideas. And I think that's very much reflective of, you know, the past 50-some years of people really kind of exploring these intents. permanent paths because you have to figure before the hippie thing blew up in the 60s, right, you, you would be hard pressed to find any sort of psychedelic experience and you would have to travel very far and wide and communicate with the right people in order to find a shaman and somebody who was trained and knowledgeable in these things. And then, you know, we took the power of the basses and said, hey, let's just everybody, you start partying and, you know, let's see where the

the needle goes here. And so, you know, it went from that. And there was legitimate research, right? You know, there was a lot of people who wanted the music for, you know, prison reform and, you know, psychological stuff and things like that. You know, the story of how and why those things are illegal is an interesting bit of history. And, you know, again, it usually falls back down to the money, sadly. So we don't need to repeat that story too much. Yeah.

But there is definitely a movement to figure out what this is, what a human being is, more specifically who you are. Yeah. It's after hearing you say that, I just, it makes me continue to go down this idea of inner space travel. And the same way, for most people who have traveled out of their, out of their hometown into a foreign country, one common thread that people find is they learn so much about themselves and where they're from, maybe more so than where they're going to, because you're faced with yourself as the stranger. You're faced with yourself being a strange man or a strange woman in a strange place.

And it's so fascinating me to think that I can have that same revelation with a huge dose of psilocybin, the more that I take time to, you know, have these giant trips and start thinking about myself, I feel like I emerge into a different world or at least a different idea of the world I'm in. And I feel like I see people different. I feel like I see myself different. If I'm doing the real work and I'm integrating the trip, if I'm integrating what happened to me and taking time to write in my journal and taking time to think about the issues prior and before and after and then coming to a conclusion of like, yeah, I was right on there or you know what, I need to rethink that. But it's so fascinating that, you know, that you can have these same

experiences traveling, whether you're just traveling inward or or traveling outward. And I wish, I kind of feel like that's what is going on right now with, with the demographics in our society. It seems like there are so many people on the cusp of the mortality experience that they could all benefit from a bit of an inner trip. It's kind of a tangent there, but what do you think? I think yes on the, you know, just the big picture perspective. Again, I think, you know, the devil's in the details, right? Yeah. And once we get down to the brass tax, you know, some of those people, in fact, I'd say probably a lot of people these days, aren't ready to look in the black people.

They're not ready to walk across the abyss because they're attached to everything that, you know, they're attached to in this world. And those attachments are very, very powerful in keeping people, you know, definitely not happy, but placated enough to them. a point where they don't seek exploration, where they don't question, right? And that's not necessarily just like the singular thing. It could be just the total environment that they would thrust into. They might not even have an opportunity to try to develop anything that would allow them to make a choice to go down a different path. So I think when we look at it from the nuance perspective, I think they could probably all benefit, but how would you reach all those people do appropriately.

Because if all of a sudden you just drove down the street and started throwing bags of mushrooms of people and saying, eat those right now. And then you monitored everything. I don't think you would get the result that you were kind of looking for. I think you'd get a bit more in chaos. Yeah. Sometimes I go down the idea. And I think a lot of people have had this idea.

Old hippies or scientists or just crazy people have this idea that, man, if you could just just get enough people to be on psychedelics, you could change the world. But the more that I do psychedelics, the more I realize it's not for everybody. And I'm not saying that the handful of us here are like chosen people or anything like that. But there's a level, please. An important part of that is it could be for everything, but it's not for people. We mean it could be for everybody. Well, I think, you know, just like we were talking about, those underlying circumstances. those nuances of culture, society, location in the world, you know, those are very prohibitive in many instances. However, if somebody were to extricate themselves from that, which many

people do, you meet tons of people that are just like, yeah, I was done, I acted everything and I left. And, you know, we both did that ourselves. So, you know, people do just kind of, they're like, okay, I'm going to go. And I think when you're willing to make that choice is when you're ready to start to proceed down that path. Yeah, that's a great point. I guess it's when you're ready to begin the journey, the initiation begins or somewhere along that lines. And yeah, who is it for, who is it for anyone to say

when it's someone else's time to start? I mean, I guess that's everybody's, but you're born with that, hey, I don't want to start yet, or I'm not ready to start or whatever reason. Or you just don't even know. you have the choice to. Yeah. Yeah.

Maybe that would be a good goal is to show people they have a choice. That might be one of the greatest things anybody could ever do is to show you you have a choice of something. That's why I wrote my book, really. Yeah. To give the proper perspective for somebody to make the self-realization that they have the ability to, of a free choice in this way. that's not to say that choices are not without consequences, right?

But at the same time, understanding that you actually have a choice, I don't, there are many people who, you know, not just in the psychedelic aspect or the relationship aspect and where they are in the world, but in all of these aspects, some people just don't even realize they have the choice to change something. Because they've been told that this is the way it is. And they're, you know, this is, it's an absolute.

You can't change this. This is the way it's going to be. And when people have that perspective, well, what's the point of questioning if everybody around you has repeated the same thing and nobody's giving you any idea that you can actually move beyond those non-absolutes that people proclaim as absolute? Yeah, that one in this diagram, you know, I think you, I never thought about it until you just said this right now, but I think you do a good job of showing that. not making a choice is still making a choice.

Right. You know, and when you get into, by the way, if everybody listening, the book's called No Absolutes. And you can see some of the infographics right here. You know,

it's so, like I said, I think one of the greatest gifts you could give people is, is letting them know that they have a choice and that maybe they're not conscious of it, but every day they're making a choice not to make a choice. Or they're making a choice to not know,

or they're making a choice to not walk a little bit closer to that which drives them to passion. So doing that is liberating. It's freeing. And I hope that we're on the cusp of making that something for people to see. But I wanted to bring up this infographic again right here. So the infinite potential, every conceivable possibilities. So that is what surrounds us. Is that fair to say all the balls and the spheres on top?

That is exactly what is around us at all times. Exactly. Yep. In infinitesy of potentiality, every single conceivable possibility that might insist. And as we make the choice, even if it's, you know, even if we're not thinking we're making a choice,

but by taking the left or right, you make a choice. And by taking those motions, those are impacting the future generations of choices. And they're making them more and more probable. And that's that environment, experience, perspective, thoughts, and actions. And then you get to, as the funnel decreases, you get to a point of the most potential possibilities, the most likely possibilities that you're going to face and encounter.

And then as you're making your choices and everything around us is in motion, in moving and making choices, that confluence of choice reflects back to us as our, perceived reality. It's like I said, for those are watching, you should check out the book because there's so many cool graphics like this. I'm almost thinking now, because I've read it a couple of times and now I'm almost thinking like,

I wonder if we could put a number on, like is there some sort of mathematical equation we could put like environment times experience? You know, like, do you think that one of, do you think that one of those factors or one of those particular, environment, experience, perspective, thought. Do you think that one of those weighs more than the other?

Are they all connected? Well, they're all going to be connected. And the weight of them is going to be, it's going to be a fluid. Yeah. Because all of a sudden, if you're on the edge of a cliff and there's a couple slippery rocks, you know, your environment is very, very much a part of the equation of the outcome. If you're just walking down the street,

your thoughts and actions are going to be much more weighted than the outcome of what you're going to experience in reality. You know, so I think it's definitely going to be due to, you know, the moment in time. It's going to be a much more fluid thing.

However, putting math on it, so I'm writing an addendum to my initial paper, which is the math part of it. And I've been trying to write it for years because I didn't, I'm not a mathematician. I can do the math, and I'm getting better at doing, you know, harder math, but putting the right math on it has been, you know, just a process fund. So I'm working on that part of the paper now.

You know, just a rough number, a couple rough numbers from the paper. You know, the information moves at about 20,000 times the speed of light by my initial calculations. This kind of explains the thing when we have, like, quantum. maintaining, right? So if you have quantum entanglement, you can have two different, and you could have the same particle, you could have a photon and a photon, or you can even have a photon and electron. And these can be entangled over vast distances so that when you do something to one of them,

it seems to us instantaneously from a measurable perspective that the exact same thing happens to the other despite that distance. And so when I get into the information theory type stuff. This is more, you know, that's the calculation of how fast that information is actually traveling. So I've started to wrap some numbers around these things. And I think there's value in doing that. And that's why I've spent a lot of time trying to do it. But if anybody's a mathematician who wants to kick around some fun stuff, let me know. Yeah, that kind of gets us back to what

we were talking about earlier about the 100th monkey syndrome or you know the all of a sudden because it's happened here now it can happen here because it's because it has gone through the formality of actually happening thus it can happen again over here where you know you move away from this theoretical idea to something that's actually happened it's right it's i think this is good at waking people up or you know allowing people to maybe not so much waking up as it is getting people to see the situation they're in from a different perspective. It's all about perspective. Yeah, right?

Appearance. Sorry, go ahead. Oh, well, you had meant we talked about it a little bit earlier, but, you know, the ability to walk in somebody else's shoes. Yes. You know, that's, and that's not even doesn't have to be a physical somebody else. It can just be you from a detached perspective. That's the ability to walk in somebody else's shoes because now you're seeing

somebody walking your shoes and you're observing it as you would observe you know somebody walking down the street and get allowing your mind to be able to create those perspectives and then you know taking the time to really sit with those and analyze them and reflect upon them that opens us up to just new possibilities and new choices new ways to deal with you know emotional trauma new ways to deal with uh you know relationships And because now you're not just thinking I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I. You know, you have the perspective of, yeah, it's, it's us and me. And, you know, I all of a sudden kind of goes away.

And I think that's a lot of the power back to the psychedelic that we've been talking about, is when you get the ability to look in the black, you know, walk across the abyss, you lose a lot of that eye. That's what people typically refer to as ego. And you see, and you see a different person. perspective and that perspective is the inner connectivity of all things. And that's a powerful perspective. Because now you're just not, you're just not there, you know, alone butterfly in the wind.

Now you realize you're by flapping your wings, you very well may create the tornado, you know, a thousand miles away. Yeah. It's, it's such a great way to begin changing the way you see the world. You know, it's, as I'm sitting here, I'm looking at my bookcase. When you go outside, you're at the mall, you see all these people. But what those two things have in common is that the answer to the problem you're having surrounds you. If you find yourself in a situation that seems as if it is unsurmountable, all you need to do is talk to your neighbor.

All you need to do is look at the books on your bookcase. Like the answer to your problem has been not only solved, but has been lived out and attempted to be. solved in so many ways that it's it's staring at you it's right next to you the answer is right next to you if you're willing to look forward or do a little bit of investigative work and i think that that comes from seeing yourself in other people whether it's somebody at the mall or it is you know gore vidal or some bestselling author you know the answer's right there and if especially if we look at the theory of another theory of information that says you can't can't really come up with a new idea, but you can rearrange the parts of all old ideas and thus

come up with a new product. Just by rearranging the ideas or your structure of language, for instance, the dog bit Johnny or Johnny bit the dog. I just changed around the subject. But those two radical meanings, you know, especially if you're Johnny. And so I think that if people can begin to see the way they use their language. They can begin to see their environments. They can begin to learn from their past experience, change their perspective. And that will lead to you changing your actions. And it'll lead to better choices and a better reality. I'm going to move on to this next slide here. Because I think that there's a lot more we can get here. These ones are, I wish I blew them up a little bigger. I think we have talked a little bit about this one.

It's covered that one more time. I just want to go over it one more time right here because I have come to a conclusion. For me, the ocean has always been this place that is, it is some like a place of refuge. You know, it can be chaotic and it can be sometimes the fear of death is put in you when you're out there. It's a wonderful metaphor. Yeah, it really is. It really is. Why do you tell us again a little bit about this slide? this is kind of just taking that funnel perspective and putting it into something that might be a little bit more valuable. You know, it's because everybody, or at least a good chunk of people, sat down and watched the waves roll in off the ocean. You can see how when the wave crash, it pushes into the next wave, in the next wave, in the next wave, and you can see how it's all intercommunications. You can see, you can see that actually play out right in front of the eyes. And so, you know, having this kind of visceral connection to things, I find is a better way to explain, you know, metaphors. And especially when you're trying to get, you know, a really comprehensive topic like, you know, information down into something that's digestible.

And so this is taking that funnel and putting it into kind of that picture format where it's, you know, just the unfolding of reality is those concurrent ways that are always impacting the next way. and the next wave and the next wave. What I really like about this one, too, is it gives you an idea of the cyclical nature of reality and how we're all part of something bigger, even though we feel as if we're individuals. I think it was Alan Watts who says that every human is like a wave on the ocean, growing, cresting, and then breaking. You know, and it's, but you're still part, you're still made up of, the same body that makes up all of us. And if you can put yourself in that perspective,

it becomes a lot easier to relate, not only do your own problems, but to relate to the problems of other people. And in doing so, it allows you to see yourself as other people. You know, when you know that you're part of the same body, when you know that you may not have the exact same problems, but you're going through the same areas, be it your 40s or your 20s or a breakup or a childbirth. Like you're going through areas that people have gone before. It just makes it so as daunting and kind of allows you to understand that you can seek out help or you can. You're going to get through it one way or the other.

Either you're going to crest through it or you're going to break through it. But it's, I really, and this is one of the first times I've seen it put this way. So that's, that's one way that it really made me excited about it. And, you know, there's a few more things. like if you really start to delve on these things, and if you start to look at, well, why do waves form, right? And then, you know, it's the, it's a reflection of the overall system. It's the pressure in the air. It's the density of the water. It's the density of the air. It's the movement of the winds. It's the warming and the cooling of different spots in the ocean.

And so you can start to then take that metaphor and expand it out. And you can see, where the correlations are between how our environments do affect our choices and thereby are reality and, you know, all of the different nuances of what goes into that particular moment. And, you know, when we can start to, again, take ourselves out of this eye and look at the world in these different types of metaphorical symbology, like we've talked about a lot, right? And that's where, you know, I think we can actually help with understanding a lot more. Because, you know, a lot of people have heard the words. But once you can put yourself in the situation, you get a visceral change.

You can feel it. You can feel the perspective shift. Because all of a sudden, when you look at something, you're looking at it for a shifted eyesight, you know, even the internal vision. And all of a sudden it makes more sense. Oh, well, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. If I think about it that way, when I'm not worried about me and what's going to happen for me and all the eyes along the way,

now you can look at it as that big interconnected thing. You know, I think this goes a lot to kind of illustrate that, you know, there is no us and them, right? That's never been the case. It's just a whole sea of us. Yeah. Yeah, I've It's profound to me too

To think depending on who you ask It's either all waves or all particles But you know, when another one Yeah Maybe it just depends who we're lying to You know, I'm not sure But you know It brings me back to the idea of a psychedelic trip

Like At least for psilocybin Like it comes in waves Like you ride this crest up And you're like wow And then it kind of backs off And then you ride it back up And then it backs off again

And it just Just the whole nature of reality seems that It seems we can learn so much from the wave form If we're willing to just step back and look at it like that Like how many times in your life have you just Man things are getting better and better and better And then you crash like oh man I can't believe I thought that you know or you know for you

You start a business and things are going well going well And then oh you get to this point where like did I really do that Maybe not you know and it I think if you can see your life like that, it allows, yeah, it really is. It really is. It comes in waves. Right. And those waves, when you think about it, you know, that's what we're talking about

when we talk about the cyclical and helical things too. That's a wave form. That's the ebb and the flow. That's the crest and the truck, right? And, you know, we don't have to look too far to find a great deal of evidence. that really supports this. You know, I mentioned it earlier, we have a 24-hour circadian rhythm in our body.

Everybody knows what it's like to get tired, right? But we have 90-minute ultradian rhythms in our body that do a lot of other things during the day that really, and you'll notice. You can work hard for 90 minutes, and then you'll feel it. It'll start to slag on in a bit. Or, you know, you can get a good solid workout in for an hour,

hour and a half, but you start to push it to an hour and 45, too, you get really tired really fast. It's because there's these waves. There's these ultradian cycles in our, in our body. And, you know, external to us, there's just nature's replete with these, right? You know, we see it in the seasons. We see it, we see it through the growing cycles. We see it through fruiting cycles. We see it through all different, you know, all different levels of nature that we that we peer out. And putting that all into a larger picture of how you operate in the larger, the grander scale of things, I think allows somebody a lot of freedom,

especially when it comes to their choice. Because now you understand that there is in other than flow. There is these things. And now you can see those aspects in your life for what they are. And you can have to quote me. Yeah. It makes me think throughout my life. I've known a few people that have committed suicide or attempted to commit suicide.

And I think that that stems from, you know, it's, I once heard it say that it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. And for those of us who may suffer from like manic depressive or some sort of, some sort of quote unquote mental disorder or maybe just a glitch or maybe we get caught up in something, it doesn't have to necessarily be a disorder. but I think looking at life through this particular metaphor does a lot to clean out some of those blockages. Like if you know, hey, sometimes I'm going to be at the top, sometimes I'm going to be at the bottom. Sometimes I can conquer anything.

Sometimes I'm going to get held underwater by a riptide. You know, and I think if you can begin seeing yourself as part of the whole, whether it is the ocean, whether it is the infinite sea of possibilities, whether it's a waveform. I think it goes a long way to bring someone back in the fold from this area of isolation. And like that's another part of the book, No Absolutes, that I thought that may not be discussed wholeheartedly in there. But I think it does a good job at explaining because it is like a holistic approach of unifying and bringing together just, the images alone do a really good job at that. And it's, yeah, was that something you had in mind when you wrote it or? Yeah, it could have been a 200 page book. But I was like, that's, I don't want to

run a 200 page book for one. For two, it was also, you know, I wanted to be to attempt to distill this information down to something that it could be digestible in the day, but you're still thinking about it and talking about it and contemplating the different aspects of it a year later because there is so much involved in that and so the idea was to paint paint that framework and then allow people to fill to build around their their own structure around and in doing so you know you explore these different concepts you you don't you'll end up exploring these actions you know like as above so low even when you're not aware of it right so you don't have to to be taught these things. You don't have to be taught the philosophical, philosophical foundations or

the scientific foundations. It gives you the framework to take the essence of those of all of that and then build your own structure on it. And so the intent there was to, you know, open up the conversation essentially, but if nothing else, provide a framework for somebody to at least look at life just a little bit. Yeah. Is that, I mean, have you used, it seems to me like the idea of giving an idea or presenting the framework for an idea, sort of a loosely based set of rules to people and then allowing them to work with those tools, usually provides the best structure, the best framework for people to do it. Because then you have your sense of, hey, I built this.

You have your sense of, I use my imagination to come up with using. this basic framework right here. Is that a strategy that you've used as an entrepreneur throughout your life? Absolutely. Especially, you know, I work with people. I don't work for, no one works for me. That's just kind of a rule. And for that exact purpose.

At the end of the day, you know, you want, especially if like, I'm from a startup perspective, you really want people invested in the idea. Yeah, it might be a good idea, but still people have to invest in. time, their effort, their imagination, and creativity. And that's a lot to ask for the people. And but if you create the proper framework where people are not just rewarded for that effort, but they're also, you know, they're also thrust in, what's the word I'm looking for? Built up, you know, to that level, then their quality of work, the, you know, all of a sudden, and be like, you know, the conversation will go from, hey, did that get done to, hey,

I woke up at 2 o'clock in the morning with a wild idea. And we didn't do this, but I came up with this. What do you think? Heck yeah, because that solves the solution and it gives us something else. That's the kind of conversations you'll start to get when you have people who are invested in a project, in an idea, in a business. And that's what you're trying to foster in any sort of startup advice. But I think, you know, that kind of applies to relationships in general.

A lot of relationships are built on, you know, these, these mechanisms of trust. And if, but those are so easily invalidate. But if it's a framework of, hey, here's, this is who I am and this is how I operate. And that's what you get back is, hey, this is who I am and this is how I operate. Now we're building something together as well that is, you know, it has a solid foundation as opposed to by the way these are the rules this is how you're going to play this game don't deviate others otherwise those consequences that's not a great relationship for anybody you know and that can be at a personal level too you know a lot of people bring baggage in the relationships and say

hey this is their rule and you know if you look at it at a larger scale those things tend not to work out yeah why do you think like it seems to me that so much of the corporate structure is founded on the on the authoritarian foundation you know and it I'm trying to think of some some structures that may like you could think of the co-op or you could think of you could think of some other structures that that don't operate on that platform but it seems like the ones that are the most profitable and I'm using profitable from a strictly point of view seem to be the, if the best idea wins and the idea of the top-down structure makes the most money, does that mean it's the best idea to make money?

No. It just means that we valued money in such a way that it will outpace ideas. So the reason that you have a lot of authoritarian structure in the corporate world is mostly because of the ability to make choices, pivot and take action. When you have a bureaucracy, even if it's just a few people who all have equal say in something, it's still a bureaucracy. You know, one guy at the top can say, no, this is what we're doing. And as long as that guy's fairly confident, understands the market that they're involved in,

understands the metrics that the data that they have for their business, their app or whatever, they can make decisions that will be profitable in terms of shareholder return. That does not mean the best idea is at the top at all. It just means it was the most effective idea that that person was aware of or that they gave their time to be aware of and then executed upon it. And when you compare that in the marketplace of being able to compete, but it's changing now. We are seeing that change now. You have individual creators. You have all these people.

You have podcasters outpacing and then. We have all this stuff now. So it is changing now. But historically, it had been where because there wasn't a large communication, because there wasn't the ability for us to say, hey, that product sucked. Yeah, it did. Now with the advent of that, now just being efficient isn't no longer the only standard. You have to have the better ideas.

And so I think that's why we're seeing just in general in industry, a lot of, you know, kind of diffusion from those central power structures and people looking for other opportunities. Yeah, I'm glad you said that. That's a great way to look at it. It's very easy to get caught up in this world of, oh, poor little me. You know, there's these giant structures and they just only grow by consolidating. and what chance do I have if I'm just this little person.

But while it's easy to get caught up in that particular mindset, I think it's more engaging and more rewarding and probably closer to the truth to think about there's never been more opportunity than there is right now, regardless if the waveform is crashing or if it's just cresting, the fact that you are where you are right now I mean, you're positioned perfectly to be at the top of the next round. And like you said, there's so many creators out there.

Like, look at us just going from, you know, just a short month ago to have a somewhat successful series that we got going on here, to people buying your book and learning from your book and being able to put out a message that helps people and can make their lives a little bit better. I am hopeful for the future. And when you look at that, if you just stand back on one level, if you read the news, you would say, oh, well, you know, these giant national countries are beginning to fail. And the supply chain is breaking down because of greed and corruption and selfishness, which that could be true as far as greed and selfishness. But another way to look at that might be like, wow, here we are as an individual competing with multi-million dollar corporations. And maybe that's why the supply chain is breaking down

because there's no longer enough, there's too much weight, it's too top heavy. When you have all these people at the bottom that can compete up here, like a podcast or putting up the same numbers as CNN or something like that, you no longer need this bohemath, all this supply chain and all this just weight over here when you can be so much more nimble. Right. And I, you know, and I think we're seeing that just kind of across the board.

you know, the Terry Lieber projects have been on that kind of path. And then, you know, there's other people who are talking sustainable communities too and other people who are buying up hundreds of acres of land to get their family together. We're seeing, you know, the people who are looking around and care about people, care about the world, care about the next generations, being able to actually have something to live on. You know, those people are looking around saying, hey, hey, hey, hey, you guys, you know, understand maybe what you were trying to do, but it's not working in me. And I find it fascinating.

It's a wonderful time for opportunity. And, you know, to back to the wave analogy, you said even if, you know, you feel like it's in the trough, but if you stand back and you look at the rest of the ocean, you'll see that there's always a constant undulation of waves and troughs. And so, you know, it's just putting your board in the right direction and catching the right way. Yeah. It makes me think what you said to, in our previous conversations, you had mentioned multiple times that, you know, it's not worth, maybe you didn't say it's not worth. But you said something, when I had mentioned many times these crazy ideas of like, we got to fight the power, man. And every time you've been able to redirect my thought into the idea of, look, Georgie, you become what you fight. So there's no purpose in fighting this people unless you want to become those people.

And if you look at the revolutions of the past, it's just this circular structure of, okay, these are the good people, then they get into power, then they become the corrupt people. And then the new people come up. And it is that cycle. And so what it seems to me like what the Terra Libre Project and what some other like-minded people are doing, is there just no longer acquiescing to the people in positions of authority. Instead of fighting them, we're just saying like, yeah, that's not the time. not a good idea. We're not going to do that. And that seems like it just takes away all the

rage. It takes away all the power. It takes away all the authority from people when people are like, yeah, we're not doing that. Sorry. You can bang your fist all day long. We can stand up on podiums and yell to your heart's content. But at the end of day, if I say, me and mine, we don't care. We're just going to go off into our own thing. Have a good one. Yeah. And, you know, by and large, I think we're in a state of the world where that's, that can be pulled off. I think this is a very new state of the world, right? Because if we were to try to go up and do this, say, 100 years ago,

you'd probably end up with a militia at your property or something along those lines, you know, because there's all sorts of nasty words that are used to describe such things if you'd look at them in certain contexts. But at the end of the day, you know, people are awakened to the idea that they don't want to live in such an environment. And what are their options? Well, you know, violence seems to be the first option.

You know, even if that's just verbal violence or getting angry about it, because that's always humans first option. But, you know, there are other solutions. And typically, the one that seems to me to work out the best is just radical noncompliance. Like, you guys can go ahead and do what you do. I'm not even going to care. I'm not even going to speak bad about what. what you do. But I'm just going to go off and do that. Okay. Yeah, that's, it is. It's such a better way to spend your energy and your time and your life rather than trying. And then you open up, now you have time for creativity again. Now you have time for an imagination again. Now you have time to rededicate to your family,

to your friends, to your relationships. Because why? you're not constantly stressed and worrying and clicking on the next post and dune scrolling for three hours before you have a crappy five hours sleep and go repeat the damn process tomorrow you get a lot of time back when you remove yourself from these things when you when you detach from those those mechanisms those narrations and you know that's the real power underlying that is once you get to that point you realize you get all of your time back you you you know what's the thing you can't buy more time. It's the one thing we haven't really figured out how to buy. I'm not to say it's not feasible, but we're not there yet. Yeah. It's when you put it like that, it seems like that is the one thing everybody is trying to get from other people. It's, it's time. Hey, you come work for me or let me buy, let me give you this. I'll trade you this handful of dimes for your entire day and it puts your kids over there. It costs more money, but that's a good place. for them to be while you're at work trying to make more money and then we'll send your parents to

this home over here yeah and then somebody's compromised and they they took five lessons so i'm going to go use that guy so what are you going to do well i guess i'll take five lessons yeah or or you know other options but and then all of a sudden you you're just you know you have no time now and then you know it's it's sad to see people who wake up for 60 70 years old and say what the hell do I worked for GM for 45 years. Okay. Nice watch. Yeah, exactly.

Nice watch. And then, you know, there's, I've met quite a few of those people. And, you know, I've even met a few of them who realized that. And then they were like, well, hell, I'm going to go have some adventures now. And, you know, I've met the people who are 76 years old and they're like, oh, yeah, I retired at 60 and I realized my life sucks. So here I am. I'm backpacking through the internet.

Amazon. Awesome. You know, but unfortunately, you know, I don't think if, I don't think if you were to ask any single one of them, would you like to do it earlier? I think you're going to get a resounding yes. And so it's unfortunate that, you know, it happens so late. But yeah, you know, that is a story that is probably more and more common as good days ago by. Yeah. It's, it's an amazing thing. thing to to wake up one day and wonder where the hell you've been what the hell you've been doing and it's easy it's easy to go through life and live somebody else's lived by somebody else's rules it's easy to go through life and live someone else's dream and it's easy to go through life wishing that you had more but if in life if you do what is easy your life will be hard

And, you know, so it takes courage. It takes a leap of faith to just stretch out on your own. And it's hard. And I can understand why people don't want to do it. But I believe wholeheartedly that my life and the life of those I love will be better if I'm willing to believe in myself and take a chance. And, you know, I get it. Like you need money. You need to pay the bills.

You need to buy food. And if you have a family, you need to provide for them. But, you know, the question I always end up asking myself is, you know, where do I love the person I am? Does my wife and my kid going to grow up and be better people because of the decisions I made, or am I just wasting my time, or am I making the most of it? You know, sometimes I wake up after four or five hours like a pounding headache. Like, what the fuck am I doing? What am I doing?

This is not making any sense. But those times are rare compared to once I get in my day, once I start talking to interesting people or once I go out for a walk or once I get my bearing straight, I realize that I'm making a difference. I'm making an impact and I'm better because of it. and my wife and my kids see it and they're proud and I'm proud. And all of a sudden I get to talk to you and I see the book you wrote. And I start hearing about, hey, George, I drew this in a waveform or hey, George, here's the different possibilities that create choice. And it seems like the more I pour myself into the day, the more I pour myself into the ideas

and the thoughts that are beautiful, the more that kind of radiates back to me. And the more that I get to be part of this life that I've always wanted. rather than, and the next thing I know, I'm no longer living someone's life. I'm living my life. No longer a passenger. Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's, it, all it takes is jumping in the driver's seat. Like the car's on autopilot right now.

Yeah. And, you know, to be fair, a lot of people are thrust into all of these structures, you know, grow up in relationships. They grow up in certain locations in the road. And yeah, it's not an easy thing. It really isn't. And it's harder for other people than some. You know, sometimes, you know, even people who grow up in really great places with a great family, sometimes it's the hardest. Yeah.

Because, you know, there is, you know, if it's so great here, then why would you go look anywhere else? You know, but at the same time, that while you are a part of that greatness, you didn't build it. You were just, you know, you just got lucky on your location. And you won't find happiness and joy until you, you know, you're just, you don't find happiness and joy until, You go out and you live your own here. And so you go out and you test your own waters and figure out who you are. Do you think that that is the one thing that kind of pushes people out under their own is like tragedy or it is like this, this big right hand that nobody saw coming that lays you out? Is that the thing that forces you or at least smacks you around enough to go and start doing your own thing?

I think it's a hell of a catalyst for a lot of people. I think there's probably other pathways to it. But I would say by and large, most of the time it's due to a trauma, some sort of trauma, some sort of tragedy in your life. Simply because, you know, those are the things that do. They smack you in the face out of nowhere and you're blindsided and you have to take a second and go, what's going on? And you're actually seeing with clear eyes for a moment, you know, and you look around and you go, oh, geez. So this is anything I want to do. I don't want to repeat this process.

I don't want to be a part of this. I don't want, I don't like these feelings. You know, how does, you know, why does this happen? You start to ask those bigger questions. And that's, that definitely kicks many people down the path, I would say. But I'm sure you can get there from other places. Just so happens most of the people I've met haven't, haven't come from other places. Yeah.

It reminds me of a, I think it was in an Alan Watt story or something where he talks about this couple that's lost in the ghetto somewhere in England or something. And they're like, hey, but, but excuse me, the guy comes over and they say, hey, do you know how to get to this spot over here? And the guy's like, yeah, I know how to get there. But if I were you, I wouldn't start from here. It's so crazy to think of. I always think about that in my life. Like, yeah, I probably shouldn't start from here. but really you got to start somewhere I guess well you know that that goes back to what we're talking about giving everybody's psyched out right yeah yeah you get there but I wouldn't start from there bud yeah it's so funny to me because when I look at it from that angle like I wouldn't this process this journey I'm on I definitely wouldn't if I could choose I wouldn't have started where I started that's a horrible starting point but it it really taught me a lot of stuff so maybe it wasn't that horrible

looking back on it. Well, you know, the other side of that coin is, or that equation is that you're here. Yeah. And who's to say that you would be if you went a different direction? Yeah. Yeah. That's that's the thing where everybody, you know, do you have any regrets? You know, oh, no. No regrets. Definitely no regrets. You know, I would have changed some things maybe if I could go back and say that it wouldn't affect the outcome. But no regrets because here I am today. you know, I've got to do many of the things that I wanted, that I set out to do. And then I've had to re-find goals in my life multiple times because I'd never thought I would reach those lifelong goals. And then I was there. And I was like, well, shit, now what am I going to do?

And, you know, so, and there was many misadventures along the way. And I can honestly say, I was never, I wasn't a great person back in the day, you know. And so there are definitely things where it's like, yeah, I would have preferred my life. not to hurt those people or, you know, that person or would prefer not to get involved in that business relationship or things like that. But still, if I hadn't, I wouldn't have the perspective that I have today. Yeah. When I look back on those times on some of the moments I'm not proud of, I start laughing because I realized like I had I had to be that person in order to be the person I am today. Right. I had to be a piece of shit for a little while. Yeah. Yeah. You had to.

You kind of had to. You know, and in one way, it's, it's, you could say, oh, well, I'm just taking the heat off myself. But the more that I look at it, I'm like, no, no, I had to do that. Otherwise, I would have never learned. And you, and then if you get really serious about it, you can think about it and say, if I didn't have that experience, when I can counter this choice later on my life, I know I would have gotten different. Yeah. And if you're serious and honest with yourself, you'll find those pretty damn often in my experience. Yeah. I think it lends credence to to young people going out and just taking the bull by the horns and trying.

Like I mean, all of us know, you know, it's like an old trope. A guy turns 50 and gets a corvette, you know, or goes through this midlife crisis because they hadn't done the things they wish they would have done when they were 20 or they were they were sacrope. They told themselves they were sacrificing now so they didn't have to. But, you know, it's, and I'm sure that happens to all of us on some level. But I think the trick is to chase your dreams, no matter how silly or crazy they are, at least on some level, you know, have that dream bucket and push through it. And if it seems crazy, it's probably something that you really want to do. And if it's, if it's crazy, then maybe crazy is just another word for passionate. And if you're chasing your craziness, you're chasing your passion.

Right. And I think, you know, even if you don't end up succeeding at that crazy passion, you will find a different passion along the way. You will grow and you will know more about yourself than you ever would if you just decided to defer that till later. Yeah. That's amazing. Benjamin C. George, I love talking to you, my friend. And it's a good time. I really enjoyed the book. And like I said, I keep seeing new things in there. Maybe that's because I'm talking to you so much. And as I get to know you as a person, I get to see more in the book. And I hope that the audience who's following along with us, who's seen some of our interviews, takes a few moments to do that. And I hope that they get to learn a little bit.

And I hope they enjoy talking with us. And if you're listening to this right now, we are live. So you can always chime in or you can reach out to me or Benjamin, George, at his website. Benjamin, where can people find you? What do you got coming up? And what are you excited about? Benjamin C.George.com for all the projects and all the massinations and misadventures. Definitely starting with a new podcast here.

Finally got the mic set up, having the new camera thing. Almost have it tuned in. So I'll probably be playing around with at least the first couple of like monologues or something like that here in the next week. And then hope to launch the actual full podcast to interview you, George, later on this month. Oh man, I'm excited. I get to turn the tables. I'll be in the hot seat over here.

Yeah, I'm excited for that. I think that you bring a lot of talent, and you have a lot of amazing ideas, and I'm, I'm, I'm super stoked to get to be on your podcast and continue to learn and continue to develop the relationship and hopefully continue to help other people see the world for the beauty that it can. B. Indeed. So that's what we got, ladies and gentlemen. Stay tuned for the True Life podcast later this week. We got some interesting guests coming up. We got Dr. Rick Strassman coming up on the 20th, and we have got some, I'm going to be

doing some forays into some people who are using ketamine as a psychedelic medicine to help others get over traumatic injuries. So that's going to be interesting. I need to read up on that a little bit more. That's interesting therapy. Yeah. What do you know about that? Have you heard about the ketamine as a therapy?

Yeah. I've heard it from a couple people. One of them was a buddy. He said he went in there and, you know, it was just a little doctor's room and they gave him a whole bunch of ketamine and he was tripping balls in the doctor's office. And he's, you know, he was like, I don't know if I'm supposed to be here. but I've actually heard some very promising results and like I read a couple of pre-print papers about it and there's definitely statistics over the statistical averages of people

who have felt genuinely helped by the whole process so I think there's I think ketamine's an interesting one I think psilocybin will be you know kind of cremdel a crem when it comes to that And I just read a paper this morning, actually, about people's ability to reflect on trauma. And it was a, I don't want to get the numbers wrong. I'm pretty sure it was close to about a 400% increase in someone's ability to reflect on past traumas as opposed to like a standard anti-depressive. Wow. And that was like, and then the psilocybin was eight times over the baseline. So, I mean, from, you know, it crushed the pharmaceutical option and, you know, had a massive impact to the point where people were very, you know, people said, I've never felt this way before.

It was, you know, listed on the response shoot for like 30% of the participants. Wow. Yeah. So I think there's, you know, wonderful. And, you know, back to what we were talking about before when it comes to, you know, giving it to all the people. Well, that's really the mechanism. If you could foster that environment where there was, you know, somebody who knew what was going on, it was a safe environment. And you could get people into those types of things.

I think that would help a lot of people find that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I've never done ket. I mean, so I don't thoroughly know what that experience is like. And I'm, have you done it before?

What? I'm familiar with like, like, I've done LSD. I've done, uh, some derivatives of, you know, like for ACODMT. I've done the different analogs. I've done psilocybin. But I've never done ketamine. So I'm not sure if it, if it is it, is it a psychedelic? Is it something like the white room or, you know, what, what goes on? It's a dissociative.

Okay. So you're able, and I think that's why they're using it as a therapeutic tool, because you're really able to really just kind of detach yourself from your trauma and just kind of look at it from the outside looking in. And I think that's probably the mechanism that helps many people. Yeah, when I was down in Central and South America, that first little stint of my trip, I was just being a digital nomad. And then on my fun time, I was just finding random plants and jungles.

and then, you know, all sorts of different psychedelics from different people. So I checked off a lot of the boxes along that journey. Yeah. Would you consider psilocybin to be, if is ketamine? It's a two-fold question. The first part, is ketamine a psychedelic? And if it is a psychedelic, would you consider the other psychedelics to be disassociatives? it has psychedelic qualities i wouldn't call it like a really psychedown it's it's definitely where you just

kind of you're you know some people use it as a party drug i've never utilized it in such a manner but most of those people i see just kind of sitting down with trees at some point or drooling just drooling you know so i think you know sylisivin is is a different I think they're all different animals, but I think in terms of just human propensity for health, I would say psilocybin probably has the largest. And I think it has to do with just how close it is, you know, genetically related to humans. You know, when you're starting to talk other psychedelics, you know, like ergot, you know, that's you're refining that ergot and taking out a lot of the other constituent.

parts, you know, when you have DMT, you're extracting DMT, when you have a lot of these other things, you know, it's usually an extraction process. Silocybin is one of those things that's just on every continent on the planet and seems to work well with the human body. You know, there's zero toxicity. I don't think there's an LD50 on it even because I don't think anybody's ever eating enough mushrooms to kill themselves. But yeah, so in terms of, you know, of medicine, I see, I see psilocybin and mushrooms is probably one of the better paths of them, you know, to medical help, you know, in that, in terms of the plaintiffs.

Yeah, because ketamine, it's a, it's a tranquilizer, and it's definitely made, it's a synthetic tranquilizer. Is that, is that accurate? Right. I can't recall what it's derived from. It's derived from some substance that was found in nature, similar to, you know, like aspirin and bark and things like that. I can't recall what it is off the top of my head.

But yeah, we basically synthesize it at this point. My wife told me I had to make a retraction because, you know, I think in our Sunday conversation, I had alluded to John Lilly taking copious amounts of ketamine. And she's like, way to go, dummy. You think someone's going to take a lot of tranquilizers and swim with dolphins? They'd probably drown. I was like, you're probably right.

I probably think that. Maybe. I, you know, I've seen, you know, there's different things react differently with people. And there is something to be said about the process in which you engage these things, too. Yeah. You know, like, you know, just like the psilocybin journey I'd shared. Yeah. I typically, by all accounts, you would be drilling on a bed.

I was running around the mountains and singing and having a great old time. Right. So I think there's a lot to be said about setting in any sort of environment where you're influencing neuroactivity. Yeah, I would agree. I think that that's not even from a psychedelic perspective, right? But, you know, just every day too. Well, this gets us back to your book with the funnel graphic, you know, in environment and action and thoughts. Like, you know, those are all giant, um,

What is that called? What are the pieces of an equation called? They're called. Variables. Yes. Those are very important variables that fundamentally change the outcome of any equation. Yeah. Awesome.

My friend, it's always a pleasure. And yeah. So we covered it all. We covered a lot today, man. And I will touch base with you here coming up. And we'll see you on Sunday. I mean, I don't get what you're going to do.