TrueLife - The Great Marriage Debate

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

This episode is a good ol’ fashion, late night, open lines, no holds barred, talk radio program. Inspired by classics like coast to coast radio. In this edition we get into the idea of marriage. Is it just a piece of paper? The pros and cons, i think I won but of course I’m bias! Lmk…what you think!

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scar's my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark. fumbling, furious through ruins maze,

lights my war cry, born from the blaze. The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini, check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the late night talk. We're out here in Hawaii. We thought we'd just try to get out here and see who's,

out on the airwaves and provide you guys with some entertainment maybe something to talk about. If nothing else, something to laugh at. Here with my good friend, Paul. Paul was cracking, my friend. How's it going? Going good, George. Nice, man.

Nice, yeah. So for those who are listening, Paul's been a podcast master, man. On like hour four right now or something. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how long it was on with Ben, but. Yeah. So you guys were getting into this idea of like, for those who may have just be tuning in,

you were previously talking about this idea that gets away from the corporate structure, like this idea of trickle down shit. It seems like trickle down poverty these days. But you guys were getting into this new corporate structure, man. What's that all about? What do you think? Well, I mean, to really kind of dive into it, you know, it's, you know, Ben's the master of the, Terra Libre project. And so, you know, we were having a discussion about, you know, what that looks

like and how it would be implemented in the future. And it's just stuff that he just, he's still working on it. Right. But he's been working on it a long time. And, you know, mad respect to Ben for, you know, chasing something for so long and, and getting it to a place where, you know, I think he's, he's approaching, you know, being able to build a model. And so that's always exciting. You know, anything that's going to disrupt the status quo, especially when it comes to, you know, our economy and our capitalistic society, you know, to me, it's always gets my attention.

It's exciting. Yeah. I like what he was saying, too. It seems that the only thing that can really get us out of this mess is like a new sort of vehicle. You know, because no matter everything's been captured, you know, regulatory capture, corporations have been captured, boards have been captured. You know, the only thing that really gets us out of this is a new idea or old ideas that are put together in a different way. Yeah, he's like, you know, he's going to invert the hourglass. you're going to start

getting the sand going the other way I like that that's a great way to look at it you know I mean you know as far as structure goes and you know decentralizing the whole thing which I think is key

and the more that I you know I just spent a couple hours chatting with him about this stuff and then after getting off at him and having a few minutes to digest it it just seems like it's a revolutionary concept

what he's wanting to do you know really loose-knit structure you know I think I said on his podcast you know they almost seem litigation proof you know there's

you know every member is autonomous every member has their own motives directives and objectives and that makes it really hard to, you know, to attack. So, you know, it's like a corporation's wet dream, really. You know, it's member and manager-based, not employee-based, which is, to me, the, you know, the sticking point for employees.

I just wrote this, I don't know, couple paragraph summary of our conversation. You know, I was going to email it to him or, you know, message it to him. But some of these are all some of the things that were going through my head about, you know, taking advantage of, like, in a, like, hyper taking advantage of corporate laws that corporations take advantage of every day. But, you know, making those laws and rules. benefit people and not the entity.

Nice. It's like, you know, it's fascinating if you think about it, really. And, you know, you got to, you know, it'd be great if Ben was here. Yeah. But that's about it. But I think it's late in Colorado and I think that guy's sleeping. Yeah, I think so. What's up, Kev? Good to see you, buddy.

Oh, you're the man. I think your mic is muted or your, your sound isn't working. Yeah, so you're right. Mike was muted. I forgot it. Mike's by default when I plug it in. I said it's mid-afternoon here. So I just saw your text and I just finished work.

So I figured, you know, let's catch up a little bit. I think it's been a while. Yeah, it's been a long time. I talked to all last week. What's going on? What did I miss? What were you talking about? Well, we were just beginning to talk about, you know,

Ben has an idea about the Terra Libre project, Libre project and he was talking to Paul and Paul was giving us some ideas about not only what they talked about, but his idea on changing the corporate structure and finding a way to compete in the marketplace of ideas, but with a different structure. And, you know, it's fascinating to think about and my point to Paul was to get him going or just to talk about it was that, you know, everything seems captured, whether it's regulatory capture, corporations, or even people. people's mindsets. Like, it just seems like we're stuck in this, you know, I think there's an, there's an old Depeche mode that says master and servant, you know, and it just seems like we're

stuck in this mode, man. Yeah, it ties into something I was riffing with Ben about last week, the idea of Luciferian versus Christic ascension, Luciferian being where you just kind of turn your back on the world and go, fuck it, I'm just going to take care of my immediate reality, whereas a Christic is you actually try to engage and use your knowledge to affect positive change. And honestly, I don't know where I stand on this one yet. That's deep. Yeah.

Where does suffering fit into that one? Well, the suffering happens before you get to the stage where you make this choice. Right, you go through the suffering, you go through the dark night of the soul, and then you become awake and aware, and then you start thinking about your purpose and what to do with this life.

And then so, yeah, that's ultimately the choice. Do I just, you know, take care of my own world and that's it? Or do you actually try to, you know, elevate through aiding others, I suppose? I think it's the latter. I don't think you can, I don't think you can get where you need to go by taking care of your own world because you are part, everyone's part of this world, right? And the relationships you have affect not only those around. you, but the relationships you have or the relationships you don't have affect you.

Like, how can you take care of your own world without taking care of everybody around you? Well, this is where a meeting and belief comes in because that belief set implies that there is somewhere to go and that there is something to do. So the other interpretation is that nothing matters at all. It's pointless. There's nothing to be done. So just relax and chill and not worry about anything and everything's fine. everything's going to sort itself out.

There's a great little haiku. I can't remember who wrote it. But it's something like sitting in front of a fire with 10 bags of rice, I let the world take care of itself. And that's basically what Luciferian ascension is. Do what thou wilt? Do what that will fits into it. I think either way, right?

Again, it's because it's thou and it's thou's will, and your will is going to be different from other people's will based on what you think your will affects in the world and whether it matters or not. Is that any different than like the duality of man? I think it ties, right? The duality is still the idea of I'm a separate thing and I can affect my will and exertion on other separate things. Whereas I don't know, to me the non-duality things a bit more feels a bit more fate-based.

I think everything's one Yeah, it reminds me of a coan or something That says Like a young man Goes to his master And he says,

Master, there's two dogs Fighting inside me There's a, There's an evil dog And a good dog He's like, they're fighting for my soul He's like, which one will win And he says,

Whichever one you feed Yeah Right And I think, look, the truth is Like, that's all of us. us. Like I don't think, especially young men, like I can't speak on behalf of any young women because I'm, you know, I'm, I don't, I'm not a woman. But I think when it comes to men, like we go through some dark times. Like as a man, you're pretty destructive. If you just see little kids running around like little boys are wild Indians, man, they're like banging stuff and wrecking things and getting nuts. But even as we become older men, like we still have a very, we have a tendency to wreck our own lives because we don't thoroughly understand what the world. is or who we are. But I think that that's the, that's the luciferian part of people is not understanding that your actions have real consequences. George, did you say wild Indians? I did, yes. Is that offensive?

Not engines. The correct term. That's what they people called me when I was little. You're like a wild Indian, man. My girlfriend's like. My girlfriend's like. like 116th engine. So I can say engine because I'm allowed because I'm dating one. Isn't that the rule, right? You can be racist if you're dating one. Yeah, I think that's the rule, actually. Or if you have a friend this one, then you can say,

I have a friend this one. What do you think, Paul? A couple of white guys, just being retards? No, no, it's just funny. I just, whatever. Yeah, whatever, exactly. That's a Luciferian. And we're back.

We're back to Lucifer. You know, speaking of Lucifer, I interviewed Dr. Gallagher, who is a, he's the psychiatrist at New York Medical. He graduated from Yale. He's a world-renowned psychologist. And his book, he wrote a book recently called Demonic Fos. And in this book, he talks about how he was in his office. and I think it was when he was still at Yale. And he's in his office and he's doing his thing.

And he's a very scientific guy. And when you talk to him, he's real straightforward. You know, and he looks like a serious guy. He's like six, he's actually big like six, five, two 80. No joke looking serious psychologists, right? And so I'm talking to him. And he goes, you know, George, I was in my office in Yale and was around three o'clock. And a Jesuit priest comes knocking on my door.

And I let him in and he says, Dr. Gallagher, I have some incredible information and I need your help. I am representing this Satanist. She is not an ordinary Satanist. She is the high priestess of a satanic cult. She's been possessed. And I need you to take a look at her and give me your opinion. And Dr. Gallagher is like, listen, man, I appreciate you coming here.

It's all these things you've laid out. You have a high priestess from a satanic cult. You know, I'd like to talk to her. You know, everything is going to be, I am not seeing her as her doctor, but I will see her. But I just want you to know, father, that I don't subscribe to any sort of, you know, paranormal mumbo jumbo. And, you know, and I'm probably not, I'm probably going to, I'm telling you right now, I'm probably not going to believe any of this. And the priest says, yeah, that's, that's exactly why I came to you. And so he brings this girl in.

And the girl, well, before he brings, so that's the initial meeting. And then the priest says, great, I'm going to bring her by maybe next week. And he goes, fantastic, I'll be here next week. So the day before he brings the high priestess from the satanic cult to meet the doctor, him and his wife are going to bed that night. And they wake up to this horrible cat, like their cats are fighting. And like, he says he comes out of bed and he sees like, you know, he sees his two cats and they're literally just scratching each other. One had scratched the other one so bad.

It had ripped like a big shred of cat skin off its face. and I was like bleeding. He's like, what in the world's going on? You guys? So he separates him, goes back to bed. The next day, the high priestess from the satanic cult comes to meet him. And the first thing she says to him is, how'd you like that cat fight last night? Oh, shit.

Dude, right? And so it gets, like, that's kind of like one of the, as you get into the first chapter of a book, that's like the opening scene. And it's enough to like make you go like, okay, you know, it's almost like a scary movie. be like you start off thinking about it. And you're like, oh, I don't know. But then he starts getting to some really kind of deep and dark details about like what happened. And she starts talking about how she got, she has like these,

these powers that she can kind of remote view, but they were given to her by Satan. And the reason she, like here's what tripped me out. Like I had to set the book down for a minute. And I don't think this is really a spoiler, but it's a little bit of what happened to her story. In her satanic cult,

she was what was called a breeder. So she would get pregnant. and they would have the fetus and then they would like sacrifice the fetus and just do all this super dark stuff and that's how she said she got her powers but what's your guys take on that kind of stuff man you guys believe in exorcisms

and satanic cults and whatnot uh no i mean it sounds like it sounds like what uh those wacky loons that listen to Alex Jones accused the uh democrats of doing right like satanic worshipping and baby killing

and some shit that's happening out of pizza restaurants somewhere. There's some fun rabbit holes to go down for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think that there is my take, well, if we leave the book alone for a minute

and we talk about these other rabbit holes, you know, when I hear Alex Jones or when I hear, you know, any sort of people that are talking about pedophilia or talking about satanic ritual, I think that some of that stuff is real, number one. Number two, what I think what's happening is that you have a lot of blackmail going on. And maybe there's not incredible satanic pedophile cult.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. But I think politicians especially, I think they end up in situations they don't want to be in. I think they end up on Epstein Island, partying, drinking. Next thing you know, they're laid out and there's a kid next to them. There's pictures that are taken. And those politicians are forever in. in the pocket of the blackmailer. And, you know, if you think about the, what's the one thing the world would hate you for?

Be doing something to a kid, right? So I think that that is what all these politicians have on them. I think there's files on most of these people. You know, you hear about orgies and parties and let's face it. Like, I see a lot of politicians. And they spend the majority of their time raising money going to fundraisers. They're not that savory of people. And, you know, so Paul, back to your idea of like,

That's what I think is happening when you hear these rants. They may get spowered out of control, but I think that there's at least blackmail files with that stuff happening. Is that too tin hat for you? Pretty tin hat, and it's not my idea. But, I mean, I don't know, George. You know, it's pretty wild to think that here's what I know, right? Ten people can't keep a secret.

and I disagree. I think 10 people with the right amount of money are all shut in their mouth. I don't know. Look about the greatest generation. Like how many people from the greatest generation don't talk about the war they were in? Like they would just, they don't talk about it.

That's, that's, but they're not holding secrets. Sure they are from their family. Like my dad doesn't, I would never talk about Vietnam until way later in life. Those guys hold secrets that, that, at least in my opinion, in my thing. I've seen grown men hold on to secrets.

They don't want to tell anybody. Well, and I don't think it's because they're ashamed or embarrassed. Like, you're talking about things that these men witnessed that created a lot of trauma and a lot of their lives. And so they just don't want to talk about it. And some of those guys, you know, might have actually thought they were doing something wrong by killing other people. And so they don't want to talk about it.

That's different than, like, hey, me, you. and, you know, and the senator from Nebraska and Wisconsin and Wyoming, we're going to get together and we're going to go to a town on some little kids and some pizza parlor somewhere. You know, that's way different than war secrets. You know, what soldiers return from war and don't want to talk about. I don't know. I mean, if it's true, I mean, 10 people can't keep a secret.

Okay, how about this? A hundred people can't keep a secret. Well, here's like with the counter to that. I think that it is what you said is true, Paul. Like there is obviously, it's hard to keep secrets. But then I'm countering that with some other stories that I've heard. Like I just heard this one recently and this is like not made up. There was a real pedophilia ring bust in Belgium in like the early 2000s.

I had a really awesome podcast about this. I'll try to find it and share it if you're interested, it's really long. But the summary of it is that in the early 2000s, there's a guy named Mark Dutro, and he had this pet, he was like he was a pedophile. He was a normal guy. And then he somehow started getting paid millions of dollars for some service provided to like, I don't know, they didn't really disclose how he just started making money out of nowhere. And then this came out that the police were.

somehow involved, like some rank and file cops were involved in this. And they were also like going to his house or whatever. And he was hosting all this people in his basement. And there were a couple of girls that were kidnapped that weren't found for years. And then they actually found this girl in the guy's basement. And she went and testified and said, yeah, all this stuff was going on for a long, for like months that I was down there, identified the people that came. And there was like politicians involved and the police chief somehow. I don't know how he buried it, He ended up promoting the police that were involved in the affair. So they got promoted.

And like, I don't know, I'm giving you the bad, bad short overview because it's a really long, interesting story. But that's an actual story that happened. And the guy was convicted and it came out eventually. So these things do happen, whether it's happening in the U.S. government, whether it's Epstein involved. Like, nobody knows that for sure. But why didn't they release his client list? Why is that still a secret? Yeah, for sure.

I mean, are there are there pedophiles that are, you know, at the federal level? Absolutely. Dennis Haster, he was the Speaker of the House. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I believe that. Is it like all of these people like colluding with each other to have like pedophilia orgies and all the, you know, some of the other outlandish things that some of these guys assert? Like, I don't think that's it. I mean, you know, but they're all types of people that represent us in Congress for sure. Yeah, I don't know what they're all in. I wouldn't make that claim. But the point I mentioned stories, it's like you should read it just to see how it got covered.

Like, there are all these different ways that they kept people voluntarily from speaking about it. That's what was interesting about the story to me. Yeah, I'd like to check that out. But this sounds, I mean, for one, I mean, like shit. I mean, there are. I'll try to find the podcast too, but it's really long. Yeah. Yeah. Post it up in the chat.

I'll check it out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's out there, man. I don't, you know, one is enough, I think. Mark Dutro, Belgium. Yeah, what about the Franklin scandal too? That happened, I think, in the 80s where there were, you know,

Lots of of kids they took from orphanages and it's covered up. It's it's covered up, man. It's it's something that no one wants to talk about. It's it's the ultimate blackmail. You know, there's there are some freaks out there and you know, sometimes it makes me wish we had stronger laws like, you know, if you're caught doing something like that, you should. I don't think there's any, there's any sort of redemption for.

for you. There's no more redemption curve. Like that should be the end of it. Like you shouldn't, you should, I don't know. Say it, George. I think you should be probably, I think you should be castrated, like either chemically castrated or physically castrated. I think that's fair. You know, I'm not a judge or a jury, but in the world of George Monty, that's what would happen. Oh, what a world that would be. Oh, what a glorious world, right? Yeah, it's crazy to think about. But yeah, that's what when I, I think that on that level, like it's, I don't know. I think maybe a lot, from what I heard, when you think about people that tell a lot of lies or people that stand and grandstand, there's always some shred of truth to it, man.

It makes me think. It makes me think how much of what Alex Jones says has some truth to it. a pretty big percentage, right? Wrong. What do you mean wrong? I mean wrong. I don't think that a pretty big percentage of what Alex Jones says has truth. You might. I don't. Can you give me like...

50-50? I think he's off about half the time. I think he's off like at least... But like some crazy shit that he said, I was like, when I heard it initially, I was like, that is fucking crazy. There's no way that's true. I remember he was talking 15 years. I didn't listen to him much, but sometimes people would share snippets of his show or whatever.

And he was talking about pig humans in like 2005. And I was like, he was saying that they were experiment on splitting pig DNA with human DNA in some secret lab. And I was like, no, that's, there's no way, it's true. But it is. It came out a few years ago that actually was happening. Yeah, they're making the,

so if I can find the link about that. Chimeras, I think they call them, right? chimeras and uh yeah yeah i remember we've i remember it was verified i got to find it though but i did remember here it is it's in oh national geographic that's pretty legit human pig hybrid created in lab just send that over there's also a really good Alex Jones meme this is like where are we now and it has like all the things that he's got right and like where we are have you guys seen that one And the next one's

Interimensional elves or something Right Yeah totally totally Because he says some outlandish shit Like what is the government's experimenting with long term DMT use and contacting interdimensional elves And communicating with satanic beings I don't know about the satanic beings part

That part's true They're doing a long form study at King's College Where they're intravenously giving people DMT And they are interacting with beings and the same people are seeing the same beings. So, I mean, we scratch that one on it. Paul, that one would fit. Yeah, that one's actually true, Paul.

Maybe we should go through these and find out how much truth there are. Alex showing that is. Like, did you read the study? They put out a study? I talked to Rick Strassman, whose friend is doing the study. So a friend of a friend? I've heard that story. No, a friend that as that was

consulting on the study. A friend of a friend. No, no. I talked to Rick Strassman who consulted on that study. Oh, I said he talked to Rich Strassman who has a friend who. He consulted on that study and his friend is the one he was consulting with on that study. What was his friend's position? He was the, I think he was the head of the study.

Oh. The lead doctor, if you will. Yeah, go through the list. Let's hear it. Alex Jones version, it was a little bit crazier, right? Right, right. Okay, that's how the government became evil and took over because they've been exploring DMT realms and they got co-opted by satanic elements.

That's his opinion on it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I believe it. Unverifiable, unfortunately. Unverifiable. No, come on. I've never met any demonic entities. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I haven't met any myself.

I don't even know how I would define demonic. Yeah. It's a weird thing to think about, right? Like, what is a demon? It's something you're afraid of? Is it something that is trying to kill you? Is it something that? And even more interesting is, are the demons really angels?

because if your ascension to a more spiritual, awake self, is there a direct result of how much pain and suffering you go through and survive, then are the demons that cause that pain and suffering actually angels in disguise? Yeah, it's interesting. I think that they're all... I guess. You know, I saw an interesting interview today with Charles Manson, and they were asking him if he thought he was Jesus Christ,

and he says, which Jesus? You mean black Jesus in Florida? Or do you mean the Jewish Jesus? Or do you mean the Christian Jesus? Because I believe I am Jesus. Jesus is a consciousness that lives in your head. And I was like, that's a pretty astute answer from a guy that's supposed to be super crazy. Like, it's a fucking really good answer.

You know, it's, it's crazy to think about the people that we deem to be crazy. when you go back and you listen to some of the things they say, they're really not that crazy. I like the black Jesus in Florida. We're in Florida, is he? I don't know, but he's having a good time, according to Charles Manson. Nice. Probably, might be Miami.

Probably. He might have been Cuban. He might have swam over. Could be. The hair of wool. How old is Charles Bean? He's got to be like close to 90, right? Oh, I think he's dead, but I was just, I was watching this old.

old, I did a podcast today on emotional capitalism. And in order to drive a point home, I had to quote him. So I had to go find a thing. How do you find time to podcast? And is that why my Christmas packages are going to be late, George? No, no, surprisingly, your package should be on time. I'm a maniac, man. And I usually get up around like 4.45.

And then sometimes I lay there until like five. And then I come downstairs. I make some coffee, make some breakfast for my kid and my wife. And then it gives me about an hour to do something. And then I got to pack up my stuff. And I usually leave my house at 6.30 if I'm driving my kid to school. And then I get to work at like eight, work about 12 hours, come home. And if I feel like it.

I try to read. I try to get guests. I try to answer all my emails. And then I go to bed and do it all over again. And then I usually, some mornings, my wife will take my kid to school. So usually on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, I can stay home until like 8.30. And then I can do it. I usually have guests in the morning.

So that's when I find time to do them. I just try to get up earlier and go to bed later. So your package would be fine just so you, because I care. But that's the 12 hours thing is that's because it's holidays or you often work 12 hour shifts. Yeah, I'd say that's about par for the course. I have a helper now. And so that that helps out. But it's it's part for the course.

You know, I, it's pretty much. Sometimes it's nine hours, but it's never under nine. And it's it's somewhere between nine and 12. By the time, you know, by the time I don't get home until about dark. I leave when it's dark. I get home when it's dark and sometimes I just feel dark inside. Where is what sunrise is at today? But isn't Hawaii the sunrise and suns set the same pretty much all the time?

No, there's about there. Well, there's a, I'd say there's about an hour shift. Like our time doesn't change, but, you know, in midsummer and the solstice, it probably stays light until almost eight. And now it's getting dark like at 655 or so. Okay, yeah, but just an hour. Like New York and winter, it's dark at full, And then summer it's like 10.30.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the higher the latitude. And Bali here, it's the same. Yeah, I think it's even less than an hour. I think it's only changed about like 30 minutes, 40 minutes. You know what's weird is it's the same as the tides. Like the tides on the equator hardly move at all.

But you start getting up into like Oregon or Alaska and you get these really, even California has like four or five foot tide changes, maybe eight foot sometimes. Right. Which brings me to a point. I am testing out this theory that you can monitor your girlfriend or wife's cycle by full moons. What do you guys think about that? I don't. That's why they call it the moon all the fantasy novels, right?

Right. That's why they have like werewolves, right? People call it crazy. That's what the hippies call it here too. I got a text other day. It's like, oh, my partner's on her moon right now. I was like, oh, God. There you go, man.

nice. It's not like the hippies anymore. Yeah, no, that's why. Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know. Extreme hippie. You know what's big here? What's big here is flat earth.

I was not expecting that to be such a big thing amongst us here. I'm like, and it's, it's like anything else here, too. You know, because people, they stick with others of the same belief system. And there's been several times where I thought, I made a new friend. And then the topic of flat earth comes up. And I'm just like, oh, no. One of those guys.

And I believe a lot of outlandish shit if there's some logical sense to it. But there's just no making sense of the flatterth theory for me. Like, it's disprovable so fast. And I'm like, I don't even know why you're entertaining this topic anymore. I've heard guys argue it really well. Like people that are like Matt, like, I think the guy, there's this guy, Eric Dubay, I think is his name. He's like the mastermind behind it. And like that guy is really good at rhetoric.

And I hear, I heard him call in to Stefan Molinu. Like this guy is like he's like a super logical guy. But I heard them debate and I'm like, dude, this guy is really holding his own right here. You know, it just goes to show you and someone who's really good with their language and their ability to speak clearly and concisely and in spout facts. Like, it was really good. I was impressed. Yeah. It was pretty impressive.

You know, and it just... But I mean, to do that, you kind of... You have to leave out some very inconvenient thing. Like, one of the last times I encountered this, we met these people on the cliff near here. And I had just come back from the U.S. And I literally flew Bali to Europe, Europe to New York, New York to California,

California back to Bali always going in the same direction on the plane to the to the left on the map So if they were talking about flat earth and I was like well and what's happening with the plane maps on all the planes that I'm on? Because I literally kept going to the left on the map and I went from the same point back to the same point And I mean the only way they can they can explain is like everyone's in on it right all the pilots all the airline map companies all the air traffic control they've all got the wrong map and they're showing you lies and they're following a lie-based map but somehow it still works and i was just like dude you're not going to convince me with that yeah i wish we could see like i wish that we had access to the google earth satellites so that we as you know individuals could could could i guess we kind of do have access to them but i wish we could have a little bit more access where we could really

dive down into like the quadrant or dive down into certain spots it would be it would be awesome to be able to do that but I don't think we have as much yeah clear clarity as we think in there that being said though like it was no and I understand where it comes from yeah go ahead sorry no that's all good I'm just throwing stuff out I I saw a movie one time that was like imagine being in a bunker and you were a there. And the person in that bunker told you like, look, there's aliens, man. I'm actually saving you. I'm saving your life right now. You can have all the food you want, but you have to stay down because there's just freaking aliens, man. We're all going to die. And then like you could turn on, like he had like three TVs going. And on every TV was like alien invasion, alien invasion.

Like how long would you be down there before you decided like, yeah, there is an alien invasion? If all you saw were these screens. of what was happening. How would you know what the truth is? What just based on- That's the fundamental question on everything. How do you ever know what the truth of anything is? Yeah. Like it's the same thing now.

That's the point I was making is like, if all you see all day long is this outlandish propaganda, like how do you know what's true? Like, and different people, like right now, you can make the argument, like there's people living in different dimensions. Like we live in a different dimension and the guy that lives under the bridge,

we live in a different dimension that someone that just sits and watches TV all day. Like we have different truths. We see the world fundamentally different. Like that's happening right now. Crazy to think about, right? No, wonder we can't get along. Yes.

It's only perception. Everyone's perception is slightly different. So does that represent dimension? I think so. I think that that's a fair, you know, when you think about dimensions, I think of, well, this box is four by eight, you know. And remember that, there's like that, there's that, that visual kind of trick that you can look at those two tables and they don't look the same, but they are the same.

Like one looks like it's a lot longer, but it's really not when you get real close. Like, that's what I think of when I think of dimensions. You know, you think of perspective. You think of perception. Like, yeah, I would argue that we are living in totally different worlds than some people. I have a neighbor that still believes there's COVID and they barely ever come out of their house because they don't want to die from COVID. That's a different dimension that person lives. And that person lives in a world that I think is bananas.

He thinks I'm bananas. And maybe we're both right in some ways. But like that's a fundamental different world than the one I live in. And that's happening a lot. Like that's happening. And I think it's happening by design. Like whether it's people in the world that are. competing for money that are providing ideas and dimensions for people, or it's some sort of,

you know, let's keep these people fighting so that they don't worry about us. But I think it's by design. What do you guys think about that? We were talking about this last week, I think, with, I don't know, Paul, I don't know if you had joined yet, but I was speaking with Ben about this, about how it seemed like, you know, with the internet came around, we thought it would enhance communication, understanding between people, but actually achieves the opposite effect, because like you said, depending on how your social media algorithms work, what you filter it out in terms of what you want to see, you're going to see certain people, certain sources of information, and you can effectively live in a totally different reality as someone else who's filtered it out differently. And so there's this breakdown of communication because each side thinks they have their own set of facts because that's all they're seeing.

They're only seeing the ones that confirm their belief system. So how do you How do you determine what truth is? I don't think you accept that there isn't really It's truth And that it's mostly perception and belief Yeah, there's nothing I think that there's only things that are true enough

Like math is true enough Like okay, that's maybe But it's true enough for us to, it works in the system Let's go with it. It works, you know? But when you think about you know, truth. Different people have different truths. If a firefighter fights fire

and a crime fighter fights crime, what is a freedom fighter fight? Right. And those are relative truths. Like there's a ton of relative truths. Right. How many absolute truth are there? I mean, there's almost none, right? The fact that I exist and the fact I'm going to die, those are the two things I know for sure.

But I don't know about the rest if I can say 100, 100, 100 percent that is true. death and taxes. Yeah, taxes. Well, funnily enough, I used to say taxes, but right now I don't pay any taxes. So I've eliminated that one. Nicely done. Different dimension.

I like it. Different dimension. Yeah. It's interesting to think about. Sometimes I think that, so what we talked about, if what we talked about is true, like you can change your own dimension. change your own life as fast as you can change the channel on television. Maybe not as fast, but, you know, I tell the story sometimes where something happened to me and I just started

thinking of myself in a different way. And it allowed me to have a different perspective of myself. And I'm like, wow, I've never thought of myself like that, but I should. I should always think of myself like that. And then once it happened, I'm like, fuck, I can, you know, it just opens your eyes to like what is possible. Like if you see yourself as like if you see yourself as a truck driver, you're going to be a truck driver. But if you see yourself as someone who can reach through the airwaves and make people's lives incredibly better and do things for them that they can never do for themselves, then you're that guy. You're both people existing together but if you don't have the courage to thoroughly imagine yourself in a world that is incredible,

you may never get the opportunity to live in that world. And I think if you do it enough, I think it's just like how you reconstruct a memory. Like you go back and you reconstruct that memory every time you're building this memory. And if your mind doesn't really know the difference between something that's real and something you vividly imagine. So I honestly believe if you spend enough time vividly imagining this world and this person that you want, want to be, you become that person. You guys ever do that exercise?

No, I don't. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm, I used to. What does logic stem from, George? Logic? Yeah. Oh man. I guess ancient Greece. Socrates, Plato.

Is that, is that, is that, how do you, how do you determine what is logical and what is not logical? Me personally? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would say what is, for me, if I'm thinking of something is logical, I transform that into the question of what is possible for me. And what is logical and possible for me may not be logical impossible for somebody else. But it doesn't mean it's illogical for me.

You know, I almost think it's a better argument between, you know, what's rational and what is irrational. But yeah, does that answer your question? Kind of. Does it sound illogical? I mean, it's like, I mean, I was kind of viewed logic as being, you know, intuitive and simple. Okay. Right. It's not complex.

I don't think, I guess I've never really thought of it as like we, you know, we have the ability to create. create our own logic. Yeah. Powerful. That's powerful. Sounds like it. Yeah. I'm going to give you an...

I'm sorry. Yeah. Give me an example, George. Okay. I'll give you an example. Like, for a long time, and I think, I don't think I'm alone in this.

Like, I pigeonholed myself. Like, okay, I'm a UPS driver. I'm all these other things, but I'm also a UPS driver. And this is the one thing that I do to make money. And it's something that I do every day. So it's something that it's this role that I think.

fill every single day. And I see it at my work. And I see it in people's language. Like they say, people think they are the position at work. People think that they are this thing that they go and do. But that's just a role you play. Okay. So I for a long time, and I've known this for a while, but for a long time, I just considered myself to be a truck driver. Recently, like, I've become an international podcaster. And let me tell you, like, here's something I did the other day. that fucking amazes me. And this is one thing that I love about podcasting. So I didn't know, I didn't know almost anybody.

I have known Paul since we were younger, but I didn't know Kevin. And I haven't known a lot of these people that I've talked to. I've never known Rick Strassman in my life. I've read all his books. I love psychedelics. So for me to get to talk to him and introduce myself to him and hear his stories and ask him questions, I always want to ask,

that is mind-blowing to me. But that's not what I'm going to tell you about. That's part of it. So I listened to everything that he said. We had an amazing podcast. And during the podcast, he said this. He goes, I was asking him, how is it that you can, you know, judge people's power of their trip? Like, that's such a subjective thing.

Like, you are a scientist and you're trying to figure out how hard this guy's tripping. Like, how do you do that? Like, that's so crazy to me. Like, how could you possibly know it's because they can look normal, but they might be tripping their balls off? Like, how do you do it? And so he ran me through like this questionnaire that. that he built that got rid of a large part of the subjectivity, not all of it, but it was a really elegant set of questions that allowed him to thoroughly, maybe not thoroughly, but to really

begin to understand how hard someone's tripping. And during the podcast, he had mentioned that to me, and he says, you know what, this podcast or this particular set of questions is still in use today. However, it's really old, and I've thought of all these ways I could improve it. If there's a grad student out there that would like to help me do it and republish this, I would be, I would love if they would call me. Like you put that, he just threw that out in the airways.

A couple of weeks later, I'm introducing this girl, I'm interviewing this girl, Abigail called her. She is a grad student and she's doing all this work on LSD. And so I had mentioned that to her. I go, you know what?

She was telling me about how I asked her the same question. Like, so you give these rats LSD, like, how do you know how hard they're tripping? You know, and she's like, oh, well, the head twitch. I'm going to get the fuck out of here.

You can't tell how much a rat is tripping by how much its head is twitching, can you? We kind of laughed about it and she told me the story behind it and stuff. And then I told her the story what Rick Strassman was telling me. And I go, you know what? You'd be perfect to like do this study with Rick Strassman. So I reached out to Rick Strassman, hook those two up. Those two are currently redoing that guy's study and going to publish it together. Like this girl, she's in her 20s.

she has published one paper before, but now she's going to co-publish a paper with Rick Strassman. It's going to change her life, man. I've already talked to her, and she's like, oh my God, all these people are asking me how I hooked up with this. I'm so excited.

It's such a great thing. Rick Strassman's all stoked. But that all happened from me interviewing two people. Had I just lived in the world of George Monty as the truck driver, like, I would have never helped those people. You know, like, that's what I mean by that's totally illogical or irrational for me to be like,

you know what? One day I'm going to talk to, Rick Strothman and I'm going to help him change his questionnaire that's been in the world of psychedelics for the last 40 years. And I'm going to help change this girl's life doing it. Like, that would be irrational to think that, but I did it. You know, or maybe it wasn't me. Maybe it's a force working through me.

But the moral of the story is if you go and you live in this world in which you want to live and you see yourself, regardless of how illogical or how silly you think it is, like There's real. It's tangible. It's real. Like, you can do it. It doesn't sound illogical or irrational to me. Well, if you just, I guess it would if you...

If I find logic? Well, it would if you were to identify with your old role, right? Yes. If I just identify. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, someone who is not willing to think it outside, outside, outside the box in that way.

I see guys at my work that are the exact same as me. And I try to always pull them aside. I'm like, dude, you're amazing, man, you could do anything. And they're like,

oh, I can never do that. And I'm like, that's the difference. Like, yeah, yeah, you can't.

You totally can. No, no, I'll never do that. I can't do it. I'm just a, I'm just a manager. I'm just a truck driver.

I'm just this. And you live with these self-limiting beliefs. And they're like, those are all bullshit. You can live in a different reality. In your truck driver role, It doesn't sound irrational or illogical. It sounds implausible.

Okay, that's a different definition, yeah. Yeah, it's probably more accurate. Yeah, I guess it wouldn't defy logic. On a side note, George, good on you. That's awesome that you hook those two up. Yeah, dude, I'm super stupid. Yeah, that's cool, man. Would it be illogical to say that I'm about to be a multimillionaire?

No. Okay. because I'm going to be I haven't got that one yet but you can baby steps it's baby steps what would be illogical then like to say that I'm going to go to Mars

that would be illogical no well it depends on how you're going to get something like A equals B B equals C therefore A cannot equal C it's kind of illogical right right yeah that's that's like a theorem right

yeah yeah Yeah. But, you know, which was a great story, the story you told. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's so much power in just connecting people. Yeah, there really is. Yeah.

Hey, man, you made a, you know, you made a difference in both of their lives. Yeah. And that's cool. And in mine, too. Like, in some, in some little way, in some little way, I get to be behind a little study that could be given out forever. You know what I mean? You make a little hash mark on the world of psychedelics, man. Like, let me put that little right there.

Yeah, putting your fingerprint on the world, George. Yeah, your legacy. There it is right there. Yeah. And around, there's George Monty's fingerprint. The closest thing I have to that is when I translated this little food menu in Taiwan from Chinese into English. Because this lady I would go to every day for almost every day for food. And then I went back like seven years later and she still had my English.

translation. I was like, awesome. Yeah. Probably 100, 100 foreigners order food there. Yeah. I don't know. Kevin, I think maybe you have a book out that probably has a fingerprint on so much that you don't even know. Hey, Kevin's got a book coming out. That's really interesting. And I'm not even like I'm, I'm not married and I've never been divorced, but it was fascinating. Yeah.

Thanks for your feedback guys on that. That was really valuable. And I didn't show it to you yet, but I put a little blurb in the beginning of it. Like, thanks to Paul and George and Ben of the True Life team for the pre-reading. Yeah, dude. So all of the dozens of people that will read it will see your names. Thousands of people. So my family will know.

Yeah. Your family, maybe my family. And we're back to Legacy. Hey, you know what, though? I think it's, it's a, I mean, you don't have to be married. I mean, people go through hard breakups, right? And, yeah, I experienced one. And so many of those things that you wrote were like, yeah, man, there it is right there.

You know. Yeah, it's pretty much it's about bad breakup. It doesn't have to be about a marriage necessarily. Yeah. Yeah. But it's useful, you know? Like if I was, you know, over 20-something years ago, would have been really handy for me.

I guess the theme is, is like you'll get to the other side, right? I mean, that's, like, it sucks now. You will, but you got, you can't, like, there's a little bit of a war that happens, right? I mean, it's, you can sort of give up. And that's kind of the point. Yeah.

Like, one thing that I found in there in your book, too, was the battle you fought against not knowing. Like that seems like fucking incredible. Like, dude, I don't even fucking know. Like, he didn't like, they're not knowing. I don't know anything. Right. You know?

It's one of those things you're like, what? I'll just chalk it up until I'll never understand it all the way, you know? That's hard to do. That would drive me. That was really hard for me to do. At first I was like fucking going crazy, like trying to understand it. Like, what the hell happened? I don't really go on and on and on in the book about it because the point,

I try to make it not about me so much, although I use my stories because people will resonate with it. But it's supposed to be out the reader. So I didn't want to put too much personal trash into it. And George, I rewrote the intro that has a little bit more personal stuff. Paul's ready. Paul's ready. I don't think I shared it with you yet. Nice.

Yeah, I'm glad you did that. Yeah, no, it's just, it's just like, yeah, eventually it just had to just accept. Like, I'm never going to really understand it. It's just kind of a mystery to some degree. I mean, there's some things that I've worked out, but not really. Yeah. There's so much feedback like you could get from there. And I think maybe that's the reward you get is getting the feedback from that.

And, you know, how it, books have a way, it seems to affect people in ways you didn't think possible. Artists, people that, like your work, your art, your book, your, the things you do affect. people in ways you don't even understand. And so, you know, I think for me, that was, that's what I read into it. I'm like, dude, there were parts where I laughed out loud too. Like, you're like, I want to make sure. One quote you order that I started laughing so hard is like, I have made a promise to always be able to look down and see my dick. I was like, yeah. It's a hell of cool. Yeah. Yeah. I try to put a little humor in there, you know, I don't want to make it too heavy.

That was, you know what, it was, it was an easy read. Yeah, that's a feedback I get. They say it's like easy and conversational. I don't want to bog people down in too many. Because that's also how I talk. I'm not somebody, that's a fist of me all about academics sometimes. As academic papers, they'll deliberately use the most obtuse, hard to follow language possible because it's like this ego game between them

about who can use the biggest words and be the least comprehensible, which I don't understand because if I have a theory and work, I want people to understand it. So why would you intentionally obfuscate your point? But that's what academics do all the time. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Shit, I co-authored a paper that I had to read like four times before I fully understood it.

Yeah. I did. I had to do it once in my master's program. My advisor was that kind of guy. He just tried to make. it's confusing. Yeah, but you know, it was, it's a good read, man. It's simple. It's to the point, you know, like, it's a handbook, really. You know, it's like, here it is. You know, read this. You'll get through it. And a lot of information nicely laid out. That's easy to really absorb.

It was good. You should write more. Yeah. Thanks, well, appreciate the feedback and help me, help me get it done. What's the trick to getting your book on Audible? it's a little bit of a pain because you have to have really good recording technology if it's not meeting a certain standard they'll just reject it so before you even start doing the whole book you got to do like two or three snippets and try to upload those and just make sure that they'll even accept the quality of your audio before you waste your time doing the entire book and then how to not work. So I've got I don't have the right equipment to even do it. So I've got to find some kind of soundproof studio in Bali. I don't know if one such

exists because the installation here in most buildings is just terrible and you hear the noise from outside. And then if you were to do it at home for anyone listening and is thinking about it, the best microphone I've ever used. It's called the Road Procaster. It's very expensive. I think it's like four or five hundred dollars just for the microphone. And then you need the whole mixer thing too, which is another few hundred dollars. But if you have the cash for that, that is definitely the best option I've ever used because it really just super high quality. And literally if someone's talking like three feet away, it doesn't pick it up. Like it just cancels everything.

Wow. So you got to do that. And then once you have the right format, then first of all, it's only available. Audible right now is only available to people in the U.S., Canada, UK and Ireland, I think. So it's pretty limited. there are ways around it but yeah right now that's the limitation and then so anyway so you need the audio

and then you need a cover that's like an album cover image to put up there and I mean effectively that's all you need so most people hire like pros to do it but if you want to do it yourself it's an investment of time and money interesting

are you an audible guy George yeah I am I like all books but because one of my roles is a truck driver. I figure I can use net time, no extra time. So I can listen to books while I'm working. And so it comes in handy. I like to highlight stuff and write notes. But if I can't do that, you know, I would rather listen to it. I mean, I would rather have it in my hand and hold it and write and have something tangible. And I, so I have a lot of audiobooks that I have hard copies of,

but, you know, I unfortunately my time doesn't allow for that. So I've just found a little hack for right. How much of the time are you actually driving on your day? Like half? Well, it's, I do about, I walk about 12 miles a day. I do about 140 stops and I drive 40 miles. So it's like I, that's way more than that. Yeah. Well, it's, it's like, you know, I drive a little bit, get out. Just jump back in. It's just like, I'm just, it's like, you have to, you know, have to have to, you ever have to like, you ever have to like, you ever have to like. move your car from a parking meter. Like that's how far I'm moving. I'm like,

I got to move my car. Okay, I got to move my car. I got to move my car. Right. So, but yeah, it's not a whole lot of miles.

The longest part driving is to the building and from the building. So, you know, it's conducive to listening to stuff, you know, and it's fun to listen to music. It's fun to have short conversations, but it's more rewarding to listen to books and you can get stuff done.

And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's an interesting job because I have so much time to think. And I love it. I like being alone. I'm kind of a loner. Like I really enjoy my time alone. And when I'm in my truck, even though I'm forced to have multiple conversations with tons of people that are, hey, how are you? How are you kids? You know, I still have the majority of time to not have anyone taking up real estate in my mind. So my mind is all my own all day. In the beginning, it's tough because you got to, you got to, you got to. You got to. You got a. You got to. figure out the route and there's a lot of there's a lot of shit going on there but once you figure it all out it's it's just like the back of your hand so yeah is your helper all freak the fuck out yet by you um no no no no she quit so yeah yeah and for the yeah most people love me man like it seems crazy but depending on who my helper is they are they get a they get a sweet of

interesting information to digest every day so what you I think I don't know like you know Hey Paul I wanted to ask you something

because George had written some he wrote this long thing in the group chat. He said something about you're doing cacti like some peyote harvest or what? Like what was that he was referring to?

Um, I grow, if you're allowed to talk about it. Yeah. No, I mean, I grow, um, I grow,

I grow cactus. A whole bunch of different types. And some of them are, you know, medicinal. All right. So I grow some And they take a long time you grow those, right?

They do. Yeah, they do. But some of them, I'm cheating by grafting them on things that grow faster to make them grow faster. Yeah. But some of them, like San Pedro cactus, you know, like different types of,

it's from the family or from the, yeah, a genre of cactus called Trachoceros. Those things grow pretty quick. Mescaline. things. Yeah. Those things, they grow pretty quick, but like, Lafalfoura, like peyote, that grows painfully slow. Right.

So I usually, like, you know, I have some, some lafophora grafted on various things, parisciopsis and other, like, trichocerius and things that want to grow fast so that that plant will put all of its energy into growing the cyan, which is, you know, the part that's crafted on top and to make you grow faster. They kind of lose their, like, some of their, like, natural shape, but they'll grow incredibly fast if you do that. Are you doing any ceremonies on your land?

It seemed like you have a little land out there. Yeah, no, not yet. Something I want to do, though. But, no, I haven't done anything yet. No, no sweat logs going. That'll be sweet. No, yeah. sweat lodges, but, um,

a little yurt to sleep in. Yeah, there's, yep, there's a, for sure, there's a yurt out there to sleep in. Oh, so you're almost ready. You just need the sweat lodge. I'm almost ready. Yeah, I just need the sweat lodge part, but, um, don't your neighbors, Paul, have, isn't, don't you have neighbors on both sides that are Ivo gain and ayahuasca? Don't you have some neighbors on both sides? Well, so my farm is like 35 minutes from my house. and at my house, yeah, I have a few neighbors that have ayahuasca retreats.

It's always the little pocket you claim yourself in. Yeah, well, I live in a real, like, so I live in Haiku, Maui. It's like the northeast shore of Maui. It's actually Haiku, but everybody just calls it Haiku. it's like a rural part of Maui and just a lot of like alternative lifestyle stuff happening out here a lot of like

holdover hippies from like the 60s and the 70s still exist I mean Ram Dass lived he used to live right down the street from me and yeah there are yeah yeah

house. It's on me too much, man. I'll make me knocking on your door one of these days. I'm going to get on Georgia's house and I'm going to go to your house. Dude, trip out. Paul lives in like the wettest part of the world and he grows cactus. Try to figure that out. That's wild.

Oh, there's a forest reserve right near you, huh? So that's like, I'm looking at the Coalao Lao. Yeah. Yeah. The Coalow forest. Yeah. So that's like, that's a cross-street. First backyard is the beginning of the cold forest.

Wow. That's fantastic. So I live in, I live in, um, it's called the Ululamalu region of, of Haiku. Google flights. I'm not kidding. Yeah, Google flights. Come on over, man. I'm just curious how long the flight is.

But, yeah. I can't afford it now. Someday when I got more money, I'm going out there. Yeah, come on out. Yeah. It'll be a good time. We'll have fun, Cal. Yeah, we will.

Bangs and drums? Yeah, of course. So that's like every Friday night, there's the drum circle at Baldwin Beach. It's like 10 minutes from my house. Nice. You know, then there's the Sunday drum circle at Little Beach, which is on the other side of the island. But, you know, there's a place called the Temple of Peace, which is just a few minutes from my house. It's kind of a real, like, you know, I don't know what you would call it, but.

you know a lot of hippie types hanging out around there sounds like here yeah yeah for sure but there's just you know it's just it's it's a it's a it's an interesting spot in the world to live haiku haiku kohohoho koelo kailua you know this whole side of of um of maui right here the short 26 hours for me yeah got to go to japan first that they got direct flights It looks like either the Philippines or Korea. Oh, wow. Nice. Yeah, 26 hours.

So if you come, you got to stay for a little while, right? Yeah, I wouldn't come for a weekend. That'd be a little too crazy. Yeah, that'd be a little too much. But yeah, so... I'll put a tent on your land or something if that's all right with you. Yeah, absolutely. You can stay in the earth.

Sweet. Yeah, like any of you guys. You too, George. man. I'm in the process of working the money situation now, so it may happen the next year. Yeah, come on out. You do a book tour when you go over there. Right. Yeah, I got to do book poor. So I can get that readership from two dozen up to four, you know. Everybody, buy Kevin's book, by his first book, young, successful, and miserable. And by his, what's the title of your second book? So she left you.

So she left. gentlemen books coming out books coming out soon yeah um but on my farm my neighbors are interesting too like one of them

is running an organ he's a rabbi and is running a kosher organic farm and then on the other side of me is a billionaire and um so I'm in the middle I'll just leave some books on your doorstep

and then hopefully it gives me a call he can promote it for me Yeah, come on out. Like, you know, I think it'd be cool we could, you know. Well, is there any else of the crew out there? I mean, you and Georgia are the only Hawaii-based ones? I'm just wondering if they're

anyways those too. George and I. I think the other guys. What do you live in relation to Paul? I live on Oahu, so I live in an island. Oh, the city. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's, Paul's trying, they're trying to make sure their island doesn't become like this island. Me with the homeless people? I don't know. How's your homeless population over there, Paul? It's bad. Yeah. You know, it's bad. It's, you know, it's becoming, it's a real problem. It's a real problem.

But I think homelessness, like, you know, in a lot of places in a, America is becoming a real problem or has been a real problem. But yeah, we have our fair share here. Yeah. What about in Bali? What does it look like over there, Kev? You don't see homeless people, really, right now. Because I think Bali is one of the richer places.

And culturally, it's not inconceivable that they would be homeless, but it's very hard to imagine because the locals here. year, they've had the compounds in their family for generations. So the only way someone can really be homeless is if they decide to leave Bali and sort of renounce their family and go elsewhere and that, you know, doesn't succeed. Or if they come from like other parts of Indonesia, people are struggling big time last year. I don't know. You didn't see homeless people on the streets, but because of COVID and like tourism collapsed

and I think 70 or 80% of the economy of the island of Bali is tourism. So there was a ton of unemployed people and resorts that just tanked and went out of business. And you would be driving on the streets and see the one out of every two resorts was just shut down or empty. And I think people would kind of like live in them that were homeless because you would drive by and you would see clothes hung up on some of the, you know, the bamboo poles. So I think that's kind of, they would do. They would sort of hide it. So you didn't see it. And it wasn't in your face.

And there were sometimes begging, but it wasn't like, it wasn't over the top, as you would see in other Asian countries. Yeah, I was painting a doomsday scenario for Paul and Ben the other day. And since I had so much fun doing it, I think I'll maybe paint a picture for you, Kevin. What do you think about, like I'm seeing, I think you're going to see an incredible. incredible continuing rise in homelessness. I think you're going to see a continual rise in people in the streets, crime, housing rates are going to go up. I think you're going to see a somewhat of a great depression begin to take over the United

States. And when that happens, I think you're going to see a hard swing to the right. And all these people are going to be, we're going to see, we're going to see a return to the mental institutes. You're going to see, we're going to see people getting swept up by cops and take into camps because and people are going to be people are going to cheer for it people are going to be excited about it because there's going to be so much crime in the streets there's going to be so many homeless people there's going to be so much crap going on that people are going to be sick

and tired of it and they're going to want something done they're going to demand it to happen this is kind of a picture that i was painting for paul and ben and while they both what while they may or may not wholeheartedly agree with me like i think that they do see some tough times coming. Do you think it's too much of a doom and gloom scenario to follow what I was saying? No, I might even be even more gloomier than you. Because in my doom and gloom scenario, the rise of the right that you're describing would be impossible because they will have completely controlled information, online sources and what is considered misinformation and any speech that would be against whatever the current regime is is gradually

going to be banned or at least censored so there's nowhere for you to even express your discontent in a public way and they're going to completely control money they're already starting to roll out the CBDCs they want to control what you spend so you're going to have a carbon tax limit on the CBC, CBDCs that you receive from government. So things will be given a different carbon value, right? So meat's probably going to be like one of the highest. And then you'll have the bug juice option, which will be almost none. So and the CBDCs, whatever you get, it's going to be kind of a universal basic income

thing. They're going to just distribute this thing eventually, I think. And then that will, it'll be. a gradual descent into more and more poverty because that thing that you're going to get every month from the government for your rent, because you're not going to be allowed to own home for your rent and whatever else will gradually decline in value and your living stands will gradually decrease and there will be no really effective way to to rebel against it. So yeah, that's even gloomier, I think, than what you said.

What's your take on that, Paul? You know, I don't know. I mean, what's your timeline on this, Kev? It's a generation. I'd say it's, you know, 10, 20 years. Yeah. 10, 20 years. I mean, I can see something like that happening, but, you know, 40, 50 years.

I think you were saying, George, like, what did you say? By 2030. I think by 2030, you're going to see the euro, the euro. the euro as a monetary currency be folded and you're going to see the CBDCs in Europe by 2030. So what's your, you know, what's your timetable on the scenario you just laid out? Me? Yeah, George. I see that happening.

I see people being rounded up by 2030. Maybe not in every state. but, you know, if you just listen to the fringes, and like, you know, if you listen to some stories that are people telling online, like you hear, oh, yeah, like, my car got robbed three times. That's nothing. My car got robbed eight times.

Where I'm in Hawaii, like, I deliver to a really nice neighborhood. Like, every house there's a million dollars. And they have break-ins in broad daylight. There was a lady that got tied up in her house. Like, the crime is out of control. And this is the first time I've ever seen homeless people. pushing into these neighborhoods. I'm talking like deep in Manoa Valley, Paul.

Like there's like all they're starting to be homeless people at bus stops deep in the valley. And I'm like, how does this person even get here? You know, it's pouring down rain here all the time. It's a horrible spot to be if you're homeless. But like I look at where I am as an area that's almost unscathed from the ideas of downtowns

being burned and cities, you know, like the Chapo city being a line. Like I live in a spot that's really hard to get to unless. your city sends someone here. But yeah, if I can see it here, the lens that I see happening, I could see people getting rounded up

and taking homeless people being taken away and put in camps, you know, and people would cheer for it by 2030. You live in Melalani? Yeah, and when I say here, I mean in Hawaii. I think you could see homeless people being rounded up and taken to the homeless camps by 2030. I don't think so.

And not in Hawaii, but there might be other places in America where that might happen, but maybe like Florida, but or Texas. But I don't see that happening like here in Hawaii. There's this thing George called the Bill of Rights. And so it just, you know, it's hard for me to see like the scenario that you lay out, you know, actually actually playing out. because, you know, there is the Bill of Rights and there is the Constitution. And you just can't round up people out of the streets and, you know, throw them into, you know, encampments or prison or, you know. People's rights get violated all the time, man. I would disagree with that.

I think you can't. I'm not saying people's civil rights don't get violated all the time. They do. but like you're talking about in mass. They just locked everybody in their houses for a year. And they did it. Yeah, the hip-a-sing, one example. Yeah, they locked.

All they did was tell people on, like, they broadcasted it on television. They went and said it everywhere. You must lock down. I got kicked out of being out of a park with my daughter. A cops came up to me and threatened to take me to jail if I didn't leave the park. Like, that's pretty close, man. That's really, really close to being rounded up. And I didn't even do anything.

I'm there with an eight-year-old girl, and a cop comes to me and is like, I'm going to take you to jail if you don't leave here. Like, does that the bill of rights? Like, how did the bill of rights protect me there? Well, I didn't even do anything. Emergencies are used to override these things. Without a doubt. And the same thing will be used. The same thing will be used.

If something happens once, it may never happen again. If it happens twice, it'll definitely happen again. And the use of emergency powers, the same way governors are using emergency power. are the same way that our president uses wartime powers, right? When there's a wartime president, it allows him to step over the bill of rights. It allows him to step over Congress. He's the commander in chief in an emergency in a wartime. And the same thing for a city.

Whenever there's an emergency, a national disaster, you need not obey your constitutional rights. There's emergency powers. And the person in charge is a dictator. And if you look at, I don't know if the state, state of Hawaii is still in a state of emergency, but I know that California and New York are. And that allows them to not pay any attention to your rights. Your rights be damned. So while we do have these potential stops in order, the emergency, the idea of an emergency,

it doesn't even have to be a real emergency. They just have to claim there's an emergency. And they got the power. It's just like that. So I think that that's something to be, that's plausible. Well, I mean, I think, They were trying to get people to stay home, but if you worked in emergency services, you could leave your house. If you were in a job that required the function of society or government to continue, then you're allowed to leave your house. If you need to go grocery shopping, you're allowed to leave your house. The key word is allowed. Who are they doing to allow you to do anything?

Right. Well, you're taking something that was like the exception to what's happening in the world and kind of maybe trying to say that it can be normalized. And I don't, I don't think that that's the case. How many people are still wearing masks? Like, they've normalized it. It is normal. People can wear masks. Yeah.

There's no mask mandates. Here in Hawaii, there's no mask mandates. But people wear masks. People were wearing masks before. Yeah. but a lot more are wearing masks now. What's wrong with that? I'm not saying anything is wrong with it.

What I'm saying is that because this happened, more people are doing it and they're giving the illusion of it. They're bringing into quote unquote normality. And so if that can happen, okay, so if that can happen, if we can bring masks, if we can bring this new sort of behavior into the world of normalcy, the new normal, here's this new normal.

Guess what? There's going to be another pandemic. are pandemic is going to be normal? And if they are normal, do the emergency powers become normal? And does the abuse of power become normal? Like, it's a slippery slope. I don't know about that, man. Look, STDs broke out in the 70s and people wore condoms, right?

People are dying in car accidents because they're, you know, they became stronger and faster. And so people wear seatbelts, right? People are cracking their heads open on motorcycles and so people wore helmets. You know, people are blowing planes up out of the sky or crashing them in the buildings. People walk through metal detectors. You know, like, would you account for all those things?

Well, first off, I'm glad you brought that up because now it's normal to walk through a metal detector at an airport. Now that's normal. That's a power that. It didn't used to be that way. But now it's normal to do it, right? Yeah, but there's a lot of things that used to not be that way. I know. And I'm saying the use of emergency powers is something that is become the new normal. And because of that, because people can use these powers,

they are subverting the Bill of Rights. They are subverting this very thing that you and I love that's supposed to keep us free. They're subverting that. Yeah, but the Bill of Rights and the Constitution don't matter at all if everybody's dead or dying. I don't think I'm making that case. Well, I'm making that case.

Right? So if society is under threat from a virus or a bacteria or another society waging war, then there are different rules, right? Because you have to be able to protect the people first. Without the people, you got nothing. Right? Those who you're just a guy standing next to a tree or whatever. No, no, no. Yeah, I think most people would disagree with that, right? But I think the fear is that it stays. that way. Like with what is it called the HIPAA Act? I forget what it stands for, but it's some health information privacy act, I think it is. Where you used to not

be allowed to ask people about their health. It was illegal. But that's just gone because it's like, oh, what's your vaccine status everywhere? They're allowed to ask you and you have to answer or be kind of excluded. So that's kind of just, I think, permanently gone. I think people stop upholding that. A lot of

So I guess that's the fear like, okay, that's that's a small thing, right? And then we're talking about Bill of Rights, there's a much bigger thing. And then at what point is a temporary violation just stay? Like, is that just a new normal? And we're not going back from it. I think that's probably the concern.

They try to force you to get a vaccine to go to work. And they turned it in the law. Yeah, they tried to make it a law that you had to get a vaccine that was never, ever tested. They took it, they made it the law of the land. Joe Biden said everybody had to do it. It's not a law. Like de facto.

No, it was de facto. It wasn't really a law. Not a law. Was it? No, there's no law. Were there people that being sued about it? I don't know. I don't think it was ever a law.

I think there was like insane pressure on it. Like he did try to say that they were going to like find companies the larger than a certain amount of employees that didn't do that. I don't know if that was struck down in court though. Like I don't know if that was actually by the Supreme Court. It was struck down in court. Okay. Yeah, which is why. Why would I give it to the Supreme Court, though?

There are guardrails, and those guardrails will protect homeless people as well. Well, I would say that hopefully, I mean, I hope you're right, but if you look at all the people that got forcefully vaccinated because they thought they were going to lose their job, if the same thing is true, there would be tons of people rounded up before they fought it. Like, it had to go to the Supreme Court to get struck down. It doesn't encourage the Supreme Court in a day. It takes a long time to get there.

So in that meantime, a lot of people could be rounded up in that time, right? The same way a lot of people got the vaccine. Yeah. They're just doing it now, right? They're like the payments. Go ahead. Sorry. I don't know anybody who was forcefully vaccinated, George.

I do. I know tons of people. Really, that were grabbed and forcefully vaccinated against their own will? It's funny that you have to have a limited idea of force, bro. Force does not have to be this fine line. Yeah, like I see what you're doing. However, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a poor argument to, to define terms like that. Like, force can be a lot of things. Like, if I say, I'm going to take your paycheck away and you'll never be able to provide for your family. Is that force? It's kind of like a gentle. No. I don't know. Like, I, I disagree. I think if someone threatens me, that's a use of force. I've been fired for, for, cussing at people and they told me I was being violent like I was being forceful. So I think that we could argue the definition, but, you know, no one forced me. No one grabbed my hands and forced it, but lots of people were told they will lose their livelihood.

And I consider that to be forced. That's not forceful. Well, coerced is the word, right? Coerced actually force. It's coerced. Coerced. Yeah, that's the right word. And, you know, rules.

Which is still illegal. by the way. You're not supposed to do a course people doing anything medical. Rules. Rules with, and you're right. Rules and then a corporation are different than actual laws, George. And that's why it got struck down because Joe Biden doesn't have the right to tell corporations what to do, but that's exactly what he tried to do by using OSHA. Right. And so that's what I'm saying. Those guardrails that provided those protections through the Supreme Court will provide protections for homeless. people. Not if the people want the homeless people gone. Not if they're telling their sheriff like, hey, we want these people out of here. I want them gone. Like then, don't those people out of here. Sorry? Those people already want those people out of there, George. I know. That's what I'm saying.

Well, it's close. Well, I mean, you were just telling me that if it's what the people want, the people already want it, but it's not happening. Right? People, and it's not necessarily that people want these guys rounded up and taken somewhere, they want solutions to a problem. Right, I agree. That's what the people want. Yeah. But like I said,

those same guard rails will protect homeless people. I hope you're right, man. I don't have as much faith in it, man. Like, I hope you're right. I just, I don't, I don't have as much faith

in the system as you do. Oh, I don't have faith in the, I don't have a hell of a lot of faith in the system, George. Then how do you base your argument on the rules then? Like if you don't believe the system will work, why would it work? Well, that's one aspect of the system that actually have some faith in. But there are a lot of parts of the system that I have absolutely no faith in. But this one I do.

Well, I wish I had the faith in there that you did. I just look at history and I see people that when people have nothing to, enough to lose, they lose it. And if you look at the way the society is turning on itself, you know, we can argue why it is, but the fact is that it is happening. And it seems there's an ever deeper divide. Like you got like Kanye versus the Jews and blacks versus white and gay versus straight. Like everybody is fighting amongst themselves because they don't have anything. Right? When a rising tide lifts all boats and when everybody has money, there's still the same underlying hatred, but everybody feels like, okay, well, I have enough to eat. I have a house.

But when you start taking that shit away layer by layer by layer, you start unveiling the animal that is hidden underneath the human skin. And people start fighting. And I think that's what's going to happen. They turn on the weakest people. The weakest people in society get picked on and wrecked and tore up first. That's a fact. And what the weakest people in our society are the homeless people. Those people are going to be rounded up. They're the first ones to go. And I could see I could see people rallying around that. If you look at what happened in World War II, the first thing is they do is like to get, let's dehumanize these people. The first thing that happens in any war, the first casualty of war is the truth. The next thing you do when you want to get rid of somebody is

you dehumanize them. And I can already see people looking at homeless people like these people are animals. They're just come around stealing stuff. Like, you know, and I, it scares the shit out of me, but I can see it happening. And I can see cops like, yeah, fuck these people. They're just wrecking everything. Let's get rid of them. And when that happens, the guardrails be damned. No, I mean, the guardrails never be damned.

And I would argue that the most vulnerable of our society is children, not homeless. And there are a lot of protections out there from, and you think about it, especially here in Hawaii, George. Yeah. You know, where family is a big deal. Yeah. And, you know, like even here, when they were moving some homeless, like there was some homeless down at, you know, at a beach park in Kahului. And the county said, okay, we're going to clean this area up.

And so you basically have like, they have like five weeks or five days to try to relocate somewhere before they came down with like, you know, front loaders and dump trucks and all kinds of stuff kind of clean the place. thought, but there were so many people down there that were like, these are our family, like, this is my cousin here, these are my family here, you know, that are going through hard times and have nowhere else to go. And so they're, they're camping out down here at Canaha Beach. And so those same people are going to come to the defense of their homeless family members when it's time for, you know, the Brown church to round them all up, George. like I said, I hope you're right.

I hope you're right, but I just, I don't see the hippie communes coming to save them, man. What do you mean? The hippie communes aren't going to come in to save them. I thought you said you're right by a hippie beach. All the hippies are doing drum circles down there. I'm surrounded by me. Yeah, they'll keep doing drum circles.

That's what I do. Just keep doing drum circles. Right. Right. Right. Right. And keep in mind that a lot of those hippies down there, Baldwin Beach, on Fridays, you know, drum circling and freaking fire dancing and hula hooping and juggling

and doing all that stuff that, you know, that they do down there. A lot of them are homeless as well. Yeah, without a doubt. But if you go down, I don't know, you got to go down like six more beaches to make it to Kanaha Beach. Kanaha Beach Park is in front of the airport. So planes take off over it all day. is that where the homeless live that's where a lot of that's where they used to be they're not

they're not there anymore now they're across the street from hoa kippa beach park at um old maui high school which has been long abandoned you know i think there's they've turned they got they've they turned part of it into some like office buildings but most of it is abandoned but you know what you know where they're not at they're not in front of the million dollar homes they're not in wiki they're not in front of the commercial properties. Because when they are, I'll give you an example. In Waikiki, the homeless got so bad.

Like a lot of homeless people were attacking some of the tourists and stuff. And the tourist lobby got together and said, this is bullshit. This is enough. And you know what? Now if you're a homeless person down there, the cops will chase you out of there. Like if you try to lay down on the sidewalk or you're loitering in front of an establishment, the cops are going to chase you out of there. You could say that it's just to protect the.

tourist dollar, but it's still one step. Like, I believe that there is a lot of animosity between the world of tourism and the homeless people that sit in front of the hotels. And I think a lot of those people that own those hotels sure wish those homeless people weren't there. And in fact, they've gone as far as to lobby the police, to give the police money. Hey, I want these people gone. I don't care where they go.

Get them the hell out of here. That's pretty close, man. That's pretty close to seeing those people as animals. That's pretty close as to seeing them not as humans. And they're already giving money to move them to different places. You know, it's just one step further to put them in a cage. That's fine. That's what they do.

There's a stray dog problem in Bali. And whenever they congregate too close to the hotels, every once in a while, they just go and poison them all. I don't see any family members coming down and being like, hey, this is my cousin standing in front of the Hilton. Like, that doesn't happen. Well, I mean, is the guy, like, got a full-on camp and everything set up in front of the Hilton, or is he just hanging out with, like, a sleeping bag and crashing up, leaning up against the wall? I think he has a tent inside his shopping cart. Yeah, but is that tent set up? It must be a tiny tent.

That's the shopping cart, and it's not set up in front of the Hilton. People are crashing. there probably be in hand. Yeah. But they're still homeless people, right? For sure. And they're still being pushed out by people that do not want them there. They hate them.

It's not illegal to be homeless. I agree. I'm on your side with this. I'm on your side. I'm telling you I see that happening. And for me, like, how come you don't think it's that far up a step? Like, the cops are moving these people out of the way. Like, they're nothing.

Like, get out of here. You know, the homeless people are maybe punching people. people and stuff and they're threatening them, but is that a real problem though if a homeless person punches people or like kicks them or it's like, give me some money. I'm going to punch you in the face. Well, they're on on private property, right? So that's private property. The sidewalk is not. That's the loophole. They're a lot. They used to sleep on the sidewalk because the sidewalk is, is public property. And that's what they used to claim. And so they had a tough time getting rid of homeless people because they could camp, they could physically pitch their tent on the

sidewalk and it wasn't illegal. So they had to figure out ways to make that illegal. And that's very similar to, like, that's what I'm saying. If they can find ways to do that. I mean, what's to stop them from finding ways just to put them in a camp? I mean, that's a huge stretch, just like saying that because you beat up somebody that you're capable, you know, you're capable of committing murder, you know. I think that happens all the time in the courts.

Like if you're arrested for punching somebody. You could go to prison for being, like, they start slapping on fake charges. Like, oh, this guy's a menace to society or this guy's a danger to himself and other people. And you start, you spit on a cop, or you, you know what I mean? The cops like, yeah, fuck this guy, man. I could see that happening. I have no doubt, George, that you could see that happening. You couldn't see that happening?

That they're going to start rounding up homeless people. Like, because they move people. And keep in mind that in the state of Hawaii, you don't fuck with tourism. It doesn't matter who you are. You can be local. You can be wealthy. You can be homeless. You start doing things that fuck with tourism, there's going to be repercussions for that, right?

Yeah. Because this state survives on tourism. It's our number one industry. And second place isn't even close. Yes So 100%. You know

So I believe that They're moving people Did you see any skateboarders on Waikiki anymore? No, Because they got rid of them too Right But that doesn't mean You know

Because they got skateboarders out of Out of Waikiki That they're going to start Rounding up skateboarders And throwing them in encampments Okay, but here's the problem with what you said You said you don't fuck with tourism in Hawaii because tourism is number one, right?

So by saying that, are you saying that anybody who fucks with your money is going to get dealt with? Is that what you mean by saying that? It's not just an individual's money. It's all of our money, George, yours included. Yes, that's right. Would you even consider it well-being? I mean, the state of Hawaii has what, 1.3 million people living in it?

Yeah. And most of them, unless you're Native Hawaiian are here solely because of tourism. Yeah. So they're fucking with our well-being, God damn it. They are, but. Yeah. Let's get rid of them, man. As a, well, they are if they're in front of the outrigger.

Or if they're in front of, you know, throughout Aloha Tower. So we should put them in a camp somewhere far away, right? No, we shouldn't. Well, just don't call it a camp. Let's call it home, man. The time goes away. Don't get it. we're already doing it, man.

We just don't call it. You're right. We don't call it a camp. We're already doing it. Like, that's why they're not in front of white. That's why they're not in front of Waikiki. That's why they're not in front of the high-end places of Maui because they're in front of the beach and the airport in Maui.

Like they were already put in a spot. It's already happening. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, you know, it's like, I don't, I don't know if you were living in Hawaii when there was like this crackdown on skateboarders on Waikiki, right? It was like on the news because like guys were out there just skating and using like the hotel, whatever, concrete and rails and everything else. The skate and their skateboards are flying out on the street and cracking tourists and the shins and whatever.

It took a few complaints and all those guys were gone, right? But that's when, okay, here's the conspiracy, right? That's when they really started building freaking skate parks in Honolulu and Waikiki, George. So they put them all there. maybe so maybe if the city spent some money or the county and built you can't call it a camp right keff don't call it a camp i think you should call them mansions i think that's a manager the do nothing or they're just going to call them all mansions wherever we live that's a marketing 101 i love it or towers right that's a good one

towers. A tower has kind of a negative connotation to it though. Like when I think of like a tower, like a memory hole. A project. Sounds a little like a project. Definitely don't give it a number. Yeah.

You mean the homeless person? Yeah, you don't want to be in Mansion 3B, right? It's got to have a name. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. You know, you just, I guess if you called it something different, then maybe they would, you know, it would be okay.

Maybe you put a slogan. It says, it works that you free over it. You know what I mean? A lot of power in words. Yeah. They could have a membership. I don't know. A membership.

Yeah. Membership. A membership to a private mansion club. Oh, dear. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't have the amenities you think it does. But, um, no.

But it's, but it's still. a mansion. It's got natural amenities. Natural. Natural. Yeah. You know, I don't know, but I just don't see it going from that. Like, when you say, like, them removing, well,

you know, shit, I remember when they were like, you know, down in Waikiki. Is Waikiki by night still down there, George, the strip club? Man, I haven't been down to Waikiki. I haven't been on Waikiki in probably three months, man. And I never go down there at night, so I don't know.

Because there used to be a bunch down there, like right in Waikiki. And, you know, and then, you know, again, tourists are like, damn, you know, like right across the street. You know, Aloha, Aloha Marketplace. Oh, that's gone, man. That's completely gone. It's a huge mall now. Right. So, yeah.

They have deja vu showgirls in it. Mm. Right? And then that was kind of, then the city was like, oh, we got to get a. get rid of that. So they got rid of it. Right. And then across the street was Waikiki by night, you know, was upstairs. And they moved all that towards, um, the ward.

Yep. And so they, you know, they found a place. But the city and the county have been working really hard at like keeping, you know, Waikiki and parts of Honolulu, um, clean, you know, free of all that stuff, homeless people, skateboarders, strippers, you know, drug dealers. Yeah. And so, you know, I just don't see it as being like, because they're doing that,

that they're going to start building encampments first. I mean, a stripper encampment, that'd be cool. Like, I might even want to be. Yeah, you know. That one you might need a membership for. That one, yeah. Very expensive. Yes.

You just got to get Donald Trump to market the thing. We got the best amenities, the best. There's a Trump. tower down there yeah there is i remember they were building that i was i was um wiring um roy's restaurant right across the street yeah while they were building that and i remember everybody's like you can't believe they're building a trump tower here and they did yeah yeah i think it's sold out like the second day or something but so so so guess what so that was lewer street right yeah yeah and so back in the day Lue Street was filled with, you know,

ladies of the night. And they all got run out of their quick. Right? Like, that was like, you know, that didn't take very long before they were running all those women out of there. And then they turned it into, like, the Waikiki Beach Walk. And so it's like, you know, I ripped that place from being something completely different. And, you know, it was prostitutes.

and it was, you know, it was a lot of drugs and, you know, and homeless people, you know, down there. And, you know, like Fort DeRuci Park was a mess. Right. And, you know, and then they come in and they clean it all up. You know, just like they got rid of the homeless people in front of the outrigger. So what if we take it out of Hawaii? Like, do you think it's possible that this could happen maybe in some parts that aren't as nice as Hawaii? I told you.

Like, I think it could happen in Florida. New Chicago The political Yeah No Chicago I don't think so Florida Texas I think it could happen

You know Those two places come to mind Well Chicago the weather Is gonna take care of the problem If it happens there Good point It's fucking freezing for half the year You're from Chicago

Aren't you Kev I'm not my girlfriend No My girlfriend's girlfriend She was missing Chicago Chicago It's like the most hellish place In America

I don't understand I'm like why would you stay there It's fucking awfully, it's like ridiculously humid from July to September. And then you have like one good month. And then it's minus zero from like November to May. They only have like two nice months a year. It's just so extreme. Yeah, I've never been.

What does Chicago mean? I think of all the people that die in Chicago. Like, isn't there something like? Oh yeah, there's a lot of gun violence there. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. Apparently, it's similar what you were saying about Hawaii. It's just, it's been, it used to be concentrated to the city of Chicago in certain areas that just everyone knows don't go down there because there's a lot of, you know, drug trade and gangs and stuff. But I guess that's now slowly spread to the suburbs, even like an hour outside. Because she's from an hour outside of Chicago where it's sort of the more suburban America. And even there, they're getting an uptick and like not so much gun violence, but, you know, like, theft and rapes.

I guess some girl was raped in broad daylight a couple months ago and a park near her house. So they're seeing that. It's anecdotal, though. I don't know if anyone's really measured it, but her family is seeing an uptick and stuff in their neighborhood. That's what I mean. Like, you know, maybe this is an unfair characterization. And I'm not trying to be unfair or look down on anybody or anything. Like, you know, when I see homeless and I see this.

that as like the cancer of our community, not because they're cancerous, but because we as a community are failing. Like the homeless, the homeless population that continues to get bigger and bigger is a direct reflection of our inability to solve this problem of our society. Like it's, and it's not one thing. It's like tons of things. It's like drugs, family crisis, socioeconomic background, education. It's all of these things. You know, it's abuse, drug, it's all these things, and then for some reason, someone finally cracks and then they can't make it. But that problem is growing so fast. It's like cancer, and it's spreading. The same way cancer spreads through the body, so too does this socioeconomic problem spread through

our country. And if we don't try to fix it, if we don't fix it at all, like it's going to continue to spread until it affects, it's just going to continue to spread. And like, look at housing. Like, how is a kid supposed to buy? The median price I read was something like $550,000. How is a kid that's like 17 supposed to be like, okay, I'm going to make, I'm going to probably buy a $550,000 house?

You know, it just seems to me. Yeah, it's worse. It's worse in America too because kids like they go into debt for four years, yeah? So they're coming out of college. at the age of 22 and they're already at like negative 150 grand and that's got a that's a huge so much of the economy is debt servicing those people would normally be buying starter homes a few years later and now they can't do it till they're like 35 yeah it's it's and that seems to me a pattern that's going to continue like if you like that's been how

happening since 08. Like, why would it stop now? And the more, the more it goes up, the more people we lose. We're losing through the cracks, losing through the cracks. And so pretty soon, there's more people that filled the cracks and there are that haven't filled through the cracks. And what do these people do? They're going to, they rise up. They, they rise up. And you got cut off. Yeah. Yeah, we lost your mic right there. And that's what I mean. Like when all of a sudden, the more and more people are losing their way, they're They find themselves in a spot where they can no longer be a productive member of society. Like, pretty soon that's going to outnumber the people that are.

Or at least the heightened level of that is going to start scaring the people that are. And that's why you see an uptick in crime, an uptick in homelessness. And how do you get rid of that? Well, you can be sure that the leaders aren't going to stop doing what they're doing. Like, they've never done that. you can be sure that the banks are not going to start giving people money. You can be sure that the corruption is not going to stop. And so if none of those things stop, why wouldn't we be losing more and more people?

And if we lose more and more people, there's going to have to be a way to get rid of them. Like, I just see that, like, that's my mindset. Like, I'm not saying I want this to happen or I think it should happen. But I'm saying that I think that the natural order is going to be more and more homeless people, more and more crime because the socioeconomic society is breaking down. And when that does,

the only thing left to do is to get rid of those people. That's going to be the quick fix that people go for. Yeah, well, I mean, this country has been actively disenfranchising people for a long time. Yeah. And now you have a bunch of people

that are actively doing it to themselves. And that's a problem. like we need we need people participating in you know in society and not dropping out but it's so hard for people to to stay involved and to want to like be productive because they're not seeing their output um it's not being reflected in what they're earning you know for their efforts and people are choosing to jump off the hamster wheel and to go do something else, you know. I mean, there's been a huge, you know,

surge in like van life, right? Where people that are like, hey, I'm not completely dropping out of society, but I'm one step away. Yeah. I'm going to. Oh, I've dropped out for sure. Yeah, yeah For sure you have

Yeah I was like fuck all this I'm not doing anymore I'd rather be homeless than deal of shit That was really the thinking Exactly And so there's there's You're not alone Kev

There's a lot of people out there that are tired of it You know for different reasons than you But still tired of it I think most people right Well I don't know George You're going pretty hard at it I hate it, bro. Like, I hate leaving my family every day.

I hate working 80 hours a week. Like, I find, like, and maybe this is what, you know what, what I do? Like, I have to find ways to not hate it. So on my route, I get to get it, right? You gamify your job of it. Yeah. Dude, I bring little presents for all the kids on my route. Hey, what's that how school going?

You know, I bring a little Rubik's cube, you know? And like, I listen to books all day. Like, I'm tuning out as, much as I possibly can. Sorry, go ahead. Sorry, George, man. But let me ask you. So we hate about your job, the actual act of delivering packages for people, or do you hate

the corporate structure that you work in? Yeah, it's a great question. I love, I love a lot of things. I don't mind what I do. I love talking to people. And I love that I have an honest living. but I hate the fact that I'm looked at as a number. And I hate it with such a passion that I've been fired multiple times.

I hate it with such a passion. I've told my supervisors, I've told my supervisors, I hate it with such a passion that I figured out a way to make the people sitting across from me telling me I'm a number to hate themselves. Like, that's how much I hate it. It took a long time to get there.

But you could do it, and that was kind of rewarding, actually. but I hate that part. I hate the fact that we look at people like numbers and that the people are being trained to do that. Like young men and women go through a management process where they learn to look at this other person as less than human. They look at their production numbers. Hey, they don't care if your kid died.

They don't care if something happened to you. You know what? You didn't perform like you did yesterday. Why not? Like, I hate that. And that is something that is happening across the board. with multinational corporations, and it's even trickled down into small mom and pop shops.

So I love my, I love being a male man, a UPS job. I love that part of it. I love providing service to people. I hate being told them a number. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the problem, right? Yeah, it is.

It's that they've taken like a job. And maybe, you know, if, you know, if our society was purely entrepreneurial. Yeah. And, you know, there was, and let's say there was no, you know, multi-national corporations or even, you know, large corporations that, you know, people would perform jobs that seem relatively mundane and be happy about it. But when you add all the layers of, you know, like mathematics that dictate what you're

going to get paid based on, you know, what, you know, like what social services. is can you qualify for so we can pay you less? You know, how can we take advantage of, you know, overtime laws to work in our favor? You know, with these things, you know, the way that these corporations are set up to take advantage of people, nobody likes that. Yeah.

That's like, that's the shitty part of working. But, you know, if you, if there was no UPS and, it was you delivering you know packages the Manoa Valley and these things showed up at you know some distribution place where you can use your own vehicle and go out and deliver them and you got the money to do it then

yeah then all of a sudden that you know seemingly mundane job turns into something that's rewarding you know and and and the way it's set up now you know with everybody on the wheel is that um you know they've they've shaped task

and duties and jobs in such a manner that they're only thinking about profit and they're not thinking about the quality of the job or the people who perform the jobs and that's that's the problem yeah and i think that's i'm pretty great once in my my old job because we had this service center in poland that did like the mundane work or whatever and i don't know exactly what they get paid but i'm sure it's probably at least the third or less of what the Swiss salaries were. And one time, we'd often invite them over to come to the Swiss office. And I wasn't there, but I had like a couple of these people in my team that they worked in the same client that I was running. And so they told me about it. I was pretty good terms with the Polish colleagues.

And there was some meeting where it was them in there with the rest of the Swiss team and the partner. And the partner literally said, yeah, we've got this, we got the Polish service center. to save on cost like blend front of the whole company and they just felt like pieces of shit after that like it just felt like nothing i'm like how are you gonna how are you gonna keep that motivated if you're talking about them like that especially in front of a group and it's like everyone knew it i mean they knew that their jobs only existed because they tried to save costs but they just put a put a voice to it like that and just kind of insulting yeah because they don't

give a fuck no you know and it's in their mind And these people are just replaceable, right? They say whatever they want. So they get discouraged and quit. All right, I got 50 other people I can hire. Yeah. You know, that's the thing. Everybody, people are jumping off the hamster wheel,

but there's a whole freaking line of them ready to jump on. Yeah. We're bringing them here. Like we're, we're, labor is used as a whipsaw from one country to another. And so when one country has labor laws, we bring in people. that will gladly take those jobs for less, or we'll just move

the entire industry to a third world country where there are no labor laws. So, yeah, the corporate structure knows no boundaries, and it uses boundaries to whipsaw and to silence

the people that live in those countries. Yeah, well, I mean, corporations really only have one rule, and that's to serve itself. Yeah. We could change everything by just getting rid of Citizens United. I mean, not everything, but a large part of it, right?

Like if a corporate was not a person, like, and it shouldn't be. That's ridiculous. If we got rid of that, if you got, if you got rid of Citizens United and you changed a company's charter to the number one thing is not to look out for the shareholders, but to look out for the well-being of the employees and to make money. And look beyond one quarter. Yeah. Like, I think that you could, I think you could fundamentally change society with a stroke of a pen.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, and you could really change society with a few strokes of a pen. Yeah. But, I mean, the will isn't there. Hmm. That's a great point. They have the, they have the, they have the potential, but not the will.

A lot of gatekeepers in front of that will. Most people are still basically predominantly in fear, right? Yes. Until that changes, we're not going to have any meaningful change. Yeah. Because fear will keep people quiet. So they may feel these things that we're talking about, but they're not going to do anything because they're afraid they're not going to be able to support their family or whatever.

Yep. Yeah. Not everybody can be like George and go tell their supervisors to go fuck themselves. Yeah. Not everyone's like me. I just cut everything and, you know, no family,

no anything, no one to take care of and leave. And everyone has that choice. Yeah, right. Yeah. There's a lot of people that are envious of that, though,

Kev. Yeah. How did it like, I mean, that's what your whole first book is about, right? No, I didn't, I guess I did it multiple times, quite frankly.

Yeah. That was just the time when I wrote it. That was once where I quit. But then I went back after the whole divorce thing happened. I was kind of lost, right? So I went back to Switzerland and I just called up. That's kind of a funny story, actually, where I emailed the partner when I came back. His name's Brad.

And I just sent him an email. I was like, hey, Brad, I'm back in Switzerland. You know, you want to have lunch. I was like, sure. So we set up this lunch June 26, 2018. Set up the lunch first. And he invited two other partners, my old boss and another partner. And it's really hard to get three partners schedule available at the same time. So I'm like, all right, I can't really move that if anything happens. And then about a week after that, the notice for my divorce date came and it was the exact same day in the morning. And it was at 8 o'clock and the lunch is at 12. So I go to

I go to court with my ex and it's about maybe an hour and a half, two hours and it was all done pretty quick. But we were in this, you know, you know, I can imagine what state you're in. You're pretty like down and kind of don't give a shit. So we started drinking beer at like 10 in the morning. So at the time I met him at noon, like I was pretty smashed. And they didn't know I was back. And they're like, oh, welcome back.

I was like, yeah, literally just got divorced like two hours ago. And then just drinking. And it was like, I was really liberated with how honest I could be. and I just didn't care anymore. I was in such a low point. And I just told me, hey, look, I'm here. I want to work for a few months noncommittal. I'm like, okay, yeah, sure.

Here's a three-month contract. And so I ended up only having that at first. But then, like, once I got back into work and stuff, and gave me something to do, I ended up going back full time. And then I quit again two years ago. No, 2021. And that was where I just said, because the first time I quit, I still had my apartment. Like, I just sub-lease it.

And I was still registered in Switzerland. But this time, I was like, I just left everything, left the job, left the apartment, deregistered, so I'm not tied anymore. And when you say we started drinking, you and your... Me and my ex. Yeah. We just, after divorce, we sat there. And that was the last time I saw her. It was over beers after a divorce court.

Wow. What did you guys talk about? Not just usual shit, I guess, people say after they get divorced. I don't know. I don't know. Is there usual shit people say? I have no idea. I think I looked at it and said, you really fucked up or something like that.

No, we're just talking about, like, life and, you know, what she's going to do. She was in Portugal and had just started a job and stuff, so I don't know. Interesting. It was kind of easy in a sense. I just did it. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Huh?

I don't know. Just, you know, so you sign some documents. You end up in court. They finalize your divorce. And then you're like, hey, you want to go get a drink? Yeah. Yeah. And she was, I mean, she cried the whole thing.

And I was just like so dead emotionally. So it was me just being emotionally dead and hurt tearing throughout the whole proceeding. And then, yeah, and then we were just walking and like, I was like, I got to kill some time. You want to just go have some drinks? She said, yeah, sure. I don't understand if she's crying so much. Like, doesn't it sound like she wants to tell you something? I don't know, man.

I don't know. Like, I can't let that go. I don't get it. I think she felt bad for me. That's why she was trying. Oh, like a sympathy. Oh, man. She was upset herself, too.

I don't know if she expected it to happen that fast either. It sounds like something she did maybe. Well, she, like, I don't know what did, but I don't know. like she didn't do anything it's not like she cheated on me or anything but i think she just felt guilt over the way it happens and basically for lying to me for a long time about her emotions so there's a lot of guilt wrapped up in that oh i just sounded interesting for when bed drains it's like whoa yeah it just whatever i wouldn't say it was behind me at that point

but I was like, I mean, let's just drink and just talk more. It's fine. So I'd get this girl drunk and take her home. Yeah. That died pretty soon. Like, it didn't take pretty long for me to be like, I want nothing to do with this person anymore. Yeah, I'm sure.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a... Well, you know, at least you're able to do, you know, to, you know, to, you know, to, to speak freely at your meeting with, you know, your future boss and your past boss. Yeah. Yeah, there's something. And the only reason I mention is there's like a certain power to the bottom.

Oh, yeah. Like, we really don't care anymore. Like, there's just something liberating about it. Yep. Yeah. People don't have power over you. And like the weird thing is, no, because you're like, nothing can't take anything anymore. Like, you've already taken every.

There's nothing you can do. Yep. You know what's weird is like you always have that power. It's just that you take it away from yourself. Absolutely. And I don't think you can learn that until you have been fired or you've quit and you have it taken from you. And then you realize so fucking what? Well, it's understanding that you actually don't have anything.

Yes, that's well put. Can you maybe flesh that out a little bit more? Well, everything is permanent impermanence and change, right? there is no static, there is no thing that lasts forever. So to the extent that you lose something, it's the extent that you never had it anyways. Yeah. So I don't know what, like, what you can actually have

in terms of stuff outside of you. It's a great point. Everything's just lonely. Yeah, it's just loan to you. You're just borrowing it somehow. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. It makes you like really kind of think about

Yeah, you know. There's a different spin on the wef. You own nothing to be happy thing. I don't think they mean it that way, right? I think when they say you'll own nothing to be happy, it's like we're going to take all your shit and you're going to be a slave. But the upside of that is actually there is a lot of liberation and not owning anything because you don't have to worry about it.

Like if it breaks, it's not yours anyway. Or how about you, hey, my neighbor has a new car. How come I don't have one? You know, that jealousy goes away. Yeah. You'll own nothing. be happy because we'll rent it all back to you. Yeah.

And now we're back to labels. Like, you know, so many people define themselves by the labels. Like, I'm a homeowner. I'm a this owner. Well, people are afraid that you're going to get those labels taken away from you. Right. And maybe that's what the web is talking about. It's like, look, we're going to change society so that it's better.

The only problem is that when criminals make the rules, they don't ever make it better for you. They make it better for themselves. You know what I mean? I don't think they have an intention. Yeah. You don't think they have what intention? I don't think they're intending what you're suggesting like that. They're doing it because they want to change and have this hippie-dippy, you know,

unencumbered lifestyle. No, they want to take it from everyone else and keep it. That's what I think. Do you think the majority of people in positions of authority or psychopaths? I think you have to be. Who is a person that wakes up and goes, I think I should lead 350 million people.

Right? What kind of ego do you need to be able to say that? A huge ego. Me and Ben, we're talking about. At least somewhat sociopathic, and that's the minimum. Yeah.

I read a book called the psychopathic. It's almost like anyone that wants to lead, shouldn't lead. You should disqualify you. The very fact that you want to do it should disqualify you. Yeah. Who wants to lead? Put your hand up.

You guys are all over there. You guys are going to the mansion with the homeless people. Yeah, like in Gladiator where the guy doesn't want to do it. You need the guy doesn't want to do it. Right. Yeah, that's, I think that's Marcus Aurelius. I think he had mentioned something like that in meditations. Yeah.

Power should be given only to those who vehemently do not want it or something along those lines. Yeah. I don't know. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Paul? You seem like you would, would you like some power, George? None. I bet nope.

Get it away from me, dude. I want none of it. I want none, dude. I remember I worked at a pizza place when I was like 15. Like, we're going to make you manager. I'm like, no part of that, man. I was like, why not you make a dollar more? I'm like, dude, who am I to tell these people what to do?

Then I'm doing everything want, man. I'm doing my shit over here. You know, and I've always looked down on myself because I've had a lot of opportunities with people like, why don't you lead it there? And I'm like, no way. Like, why not? I'm like, that's a horrible. To this day when the young kid, like, I always see the young guys that are going to

managers. And I always pull them aside. And I'm like, dude, are you sure you want to do this? Are you sure? Like, I just met with this kid that went from like a making $75,000 a year to making $160. And I pulled him aside. I'm like, Sean. Dude, are you sure you want this job?

And he's like, yeah, dude. I've been, you know, I've been working real hard. And I'm going to do this. And I'm like, dude, it's a trap, bro. You're being trapped right now. And I just gave him like this whole idea, at least in my mind. You know, I'm like, do you're a good person? But let me just tell you what I think can happen here.

I'm like, do you look around? How many of these people here like, do you really want the best for? And he's like, all of them. And I'm like, what about that guy yesterday that I saw in the office? It was calling you a big giant pussy. You want the best for him? And he's like, well, maybe not him. And I'm like, dude, that's going to be everybody, man.

They're all going to come in there. They're all going to tell you horrible thing. Like, what about when Bob's kid dies, man? You're going to go to his house? Are you ready for that? You know, like, I don't think, I think this kid is actually going to be a pretty good leader. Shanzi, he's a really nice young man. I think he genuinely cares.

And I think he's actually someone that could actually handle power. That being said, like, I don't think that. people who are promoted go through those kinds of classes. The same way, like, you should go to a counselor before you get married. You should go to a counselor before you get promoted in any sort of hierarchy. Like, you should have to go through these, these rituals, these real things of like, okay, now you're responsible for these other people. You know what that means? Yeah, you're going to get more money, but do you really, do you want to be responsible for these people? Like, what does it mean? What does it mean to be responsible for,

400 people. Like, I don't think people think about that. And that's what power is. Like, you should be aware of that kind of stuff when it comes to power. You should go see a counselor before you get married? Yeah. You know how many people do that? I don't know, I don't have the statistic in front of me.

But I'll bet you dimes to donuts that people who see a marriage counselor prior to getting married stay together more than people that don't. I bet you the divorce rates are higher among, people who don't see a counselor versus people that do you're going to force people to do that george no no it's completely voluntary like i think you should do it but i'm not gonna i would neither force no core neither neither neither force no core earths people i wouldn't threaten them or force them to do it but i think it's a good idea i'm going to encourage my kid to do it did you do it no i didn't but brian jellig did it and i i think it i always remember thinking like what kind of a dummy goes to a

counselor. But then the older I got and then like I thought about the relationship that I was in, I was like, dude, that's probably a pretty good idea. You probably should sit down with someone and like have an adult ask you like, you know, especially if you're like in your teens or something, 19. You know, like there's a lot of questions, someone who's been married. Like think about what kind of wisdom, Paul. If you sat down in front of a young couple, like you could offer them a lot of wisdom that they may not be thinking about that could help them in their future, right? My girlfriend says that Catholics have to do this. Yeah, he was Catholic.

Oh. Oh, wow. I didn't know. I'm not married, George. Oh, I think I had heard you say that before. But we kind of a common law marriage, right? There's no common law marriage in the state of Hawaii. Can I ask you why you're not married?

Um, because I don't believe in marriage. What does that mean? It means like... You don't believe in being together with someone forever. You don't believe in signing some paperwork. Yeah, there needs to be like paperwork and a ceremony and a piece of jewelry, you know, in order for me to be dedicated to the person that I love. Like, all that stuff is just like, it's a waste of time and energy and resources.

Dude, that's the most egoistic. That's why you like in the book, man. Like, dude, that's so fucked up for a, like, a woman dreams her whole life. Like my daughter dreams of being married one day my daughter dreams of meeting a man that will promise her To him and for some guy to be like yeah fuck I don't believe any of that shit like that to me That like that's what I think that sucks man Well yeah so then any woman that um wouldn't like my view on that is free to go and be with somebody else I hear you I hear you I'm just giving you my point of view

Yeah yeah no but I just think that's that's kind of a crazy thing to say George? It's not, though, man. Like, if you value, if someone loves you and is like, I'm going to be with you my entire life, like, I think you should be willing to engage in like a ceremony. You know, maybe you don't need a, like, if it's not a ceremony, you can have a ceremony. What's wrong with, what's wrong with signing a piece of paper, though? Like, what's wrong with? Yeah, that's a part of it would say. I don't know if you need the paper, but you have a ceremony. Yeah. Yeah. But what's wrong with the paper? Well, what's wrong without the paper? What does the paper do for you? If the woman that you love forever, if you, prior to getting married, if you say to this person. So the paper makes you love forever without the paper that you can't have. No, no, no. No, no.

The paper to me is just, it's a symbolic idea. But if the other person wants to have that, shouldn't you give it to them? Yeah, if you think that's something you're willing to compromise on. Yeah. Yeah. But while it's just, everything is compromised, right? That's just one of the compromises you might meet.

Yeah. So, I mean, I've been with my partner for shit. I mean, like 28 years. And they're just never,

you know, she's never asked me to sign a piece of paper. Hey, Paul, do you love me and want to be with me? Yes, I do. Then you've got to sign this. Do you think she wants that, though? Does your wife want to be married?

A piece of paper? I think she's fine either way. Like if we decided, hey, let's get married. Then she would do that. You think she's fine either way? You don't know? No, I'm talking, George, she's fine either way. Okay, thank you.

I'm just looking for the words. Well, I mean, look, what do you think she still says this, you know, freaking stand in the corner tapping her toes? you know, 28 years. Women hide a lot of stuff, man. And like, I don't know.

But they don't like they don't wait that long. Yeah. Read Kev's book. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like I, I have a daughter and I just think about like I wouldn't want my daughter.

I wouldn't want any woman to wait with their, with a dream in their heart. Like I love this person so much. I'm not going to say anything. Like, be, sometimes women, sometimes men and women are afraid of their partner leaving. And like, what if they're afraid to be like, fuck, if I ask them that they might leave? Like, you know, like, it just, it saddens me to think that a piece of paper would get in the way of you loving somebody.

But I guess that works either way, right? Like, you don't, if you need the piece of paper, you don't. It doesn't, why would a piece of paper matter? I see what everybody's saying. Just my personal, and this doesn't have to be for anybody else's, but for anybody listening, like I, I think it's a small price to pay. to be with someone you love forever. That's just my personal thing. Look, if you're going to ask somebody,

if you're fearful that if you ask somebody, you know, what their position on marriages or that you tell them that you want to get married and they leave, then they need to be with that person. Yeah, it's a shitty relationship anyway. What about for legal purposes, though? Like, who's going to get all the stuff when you, what if you got hit by a bus?

Boom, done. And then now, like, your face, family's like, well, you guys weren't married. I think I ought to take all the stuff. I think there's an argument for some legal, you know, things. Like if you're a multinational couple and you want to live somewhere and you can't go to the hospital, you can't even go inside the hospital and see your spouse because you're not married.

I'm her husband. Let me see your paperwork. I don't have it. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah. Well, there's some of the arguments there for that. Yeah. You know, I mean, I just don't, look, maybe if they make marriage available to everybody.

that maybe you know, I don't know. Maybe I might. It's a protest then? No. No. I'm thinking that because I know they won't. I know.

That's why I said it's a protest. Yeah. Well, no. I mean, it's just like I've never been, I just never been interested in marriage. Like, even weddings, right? I don't attend weddings. I have a lot of friends who've been married.

I think I've been to one wedding. invited to a lot, but I think I've only been to one. And then I just kind of reaffirmed like, this is ridiculous. Like, everybody here is suffering on some level with anxiety, right? And so you're going to go sit with a bunch of people and, and like go through some ritual. And, like, to me, it's just, I don't know. I'd rather take that money and, like, you know, go travel or something.

How do you think other women look at women that aren't married? Like, I see this is a problem. Like women who, women who are met with men and they haven't been married for that long. I think they go into groups with other women that are married. And the women that are married look down on that other woman. Like, oh, why come you're not married? Don't you ever worry about that?

Like, you know, like, I can see that in the groups in which, like, just groups in general. I think it's got to be very difficult for a woman who's not married to be around a group of other women who are successful. and are married. They look at her like there's something wrong with her. And that's probably got to make her feel inadequate. Even if she believes wholeheartedly she doesn't have to be married, she's being looked down upon.

She's being shunned in a way by other women. And that can't feel good. I don't know if that's true. But I don't know. Maybe my wife goes out there and looks at all of her friends who are married and is like, stupid. Like you got married? It's also like this weird, everyone wants you to join their club kind of.

of thing too. I can see that. Yeah. Like, oh, you're not married? Why not? I'm married. You should go too. Yeah. Yeah. Like George, he's always, you know, the guy who's out there trying to test social norms, you know, is like, is an advocate for marriage. Crazy.

I forget who said there was a comedian that was talking about gay marriage. He's like, you're gay and you have this alternative lifestyle. You want to do the same boring shit that everyone else has done for hundreds of years. Why? They're creative. Find a new model. I mean, look what happens when marriages fall apart. Right?

It's like there's a lot of energy that goes into separating two people that are married. You know, like in most... I have a friend going through divorce. He's still doing it two years in. Yeah. It's like, hey, let's fight over everything, right? Yeah. And then let's entangle children into this mess in some cases.

That's the point. it though like you're supposed to be committed like that's that's what bonds you to it like look for better or worse for life or death like this is it yeah so if you don't have that piece of paper you're kind of like tell like

tell but even if you do have it stopping you are you kidding me and like I'm an example of it changing like that like we had the paper so what it was over two months later I mean it wasn't really much of an obstacle that's like that's that's true

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And it's like that paper doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean anything to me. That's right. That's why you don't have one. No, what means something to me is like, is my level of commitment. Right. I'm committed.

Right. You know, like look at the scoreboard, 28 years, man. You know. Yeah, you can be committed without marriage. Bad times, you know, like everything. You name it. me and my wife have been through it. And here we are.

Right? Still, and I call her my wife. I don't know why. Because you love her. She's awesome. She loves you, man. Yeah. You guys are married.

You just don't have a piece of paper. Yeah, because we don't need the piece of paper. You know, people are like, yeah, you need to get this piece of paper. You can frame it and hang it on your wall. Right? It's like, no, I don't, I don't need that. And I definitely don't need to blow a bunch of money on invitations and catering and, and having some guy stand there and tell us like,

okay, now you're married, right? Is there, do you feel like, is there a fear that like, if you had that piece of paper, then you would get screwed? No, but something I did, I used to, so an argument I used to make is, is that because, you know, separating yourself, you know, because of that piece of paper, like, you know, breaking the marriage up is difficult. And so to me, I kind of always viewed it as a safety net for people. Like, I don't have to really try that hard because divorce is difficult.

And so there's always, you know, there's always, you know, for, you know, reconciliation. And so, you know, I always kind of viewed it as that, right? Whereas, like, without all those legal mechanisms, which is the situation that I'm in, right? Like she can just leave and I can just leave. There's no common law marriage here in the state of Hawaii. I can be gone and it's done. Right. So to me, it's like there is no safety net.

There's no like, oh, well, we're going to, you know, have a trial separation because maybe I really don't feel like dumping a bunch of money on divorce. Or I know the process is going to be long and drawn out and maybe there's time to make amends. You know, so during the marriage, I really don't got to put a whole lot of effort into it. No, man. So does that safety net keep you in? Like, I mean, when you say, like, that's a weird way to say it, like a safety net. Like, it sounds like there's no commitment.

Like, another way to say that is, but we're not really committed to it. I think a lot of people who get married aren't really committed to it. Agreed. Agreed. And so, right, but they're, but what? Maybe they're afraid of being alone or, you know. Maybe. You know, they, you know, they're limited on the people that they've met.

And so, you know, they're settling. right for this other person and you know and they stay together and you know the divorce is a big thing right it's like if you start talking about divorce then what is the first thing that happens man everybody you know starts talking you out of it right and so well i mean it's it's been my experience with people that i know right oh like we're going to get a divorce oh why are you doing that you guys seem so happy together. Have you really thought this through? La, la, la, you know what I mean? Like, like, you know, except for in cases where there's like abuse or infidelity, right? But, but in most other cases, you know, like people are like, oh, you know, have you really thought about it?

Maybe you should give it another, you know, give it another chance. And so I think that that marriage in a legal standpoint is a safety net. You know, it, because eventually you're going to air your grievances to somebody to your partner, to an attorney. If you want to go get counseling to a counselor, you know, but somebody's going to make you talk. And then so when that happens, there's always an opportunity to make things right again and save the marriage. But when that paper is not there, you know, you can just go. And that's end of story. There is no safety net.

Kev, what do you think? Like, in your book, you're pretty candid about, you know, what happens. Would you ever get married again? I'm not inclined to do it. We have discussions all the time because she's very much pro getting married. I'm with her. I'm like, yeah, she's on your team. I'm on Paul's team because, like, it's everything we just talked about.

We're like, oh, yeah, you're really committed. and then actually, no, the paper can be absolved in a very short period of time and rather painlessly. Like, it really is just a couple of forms to fill out in a court date and it wasn't even that expensive. And you're like, all right, well, that's the only deterrent to this thing. That's not really a strong deterrent other than I'm afraid to get screwed financially. So I'm going to stay in the relationship. And that to me doesn't feel romantic at all. Like, I'm just in this because I don't want to get screwed over.

Yeah. I'm going to take my money. or vice versa. You see, okay, I'm glad you brought up romance into it. Think about a young girl who her entire life has seen fucking movies

about Cinderella, who has talked to her little girlfriends from the age of six about what a marriage might look like, who has fantasized for 18 or 20 years about getting to have some bridesmaids and learning about something borrowed, something blue,

something old, something new, about her family coming together, All the women in her family coming to her and fucking celebrating with her. Look, you did it, love. Congratulations. Now you're going to start this new part of your life. Like to take away that, to take that away from a little girl who has found someone in you that she loves and wants to be with forever.

To take away that is like the most unromantic thing possible. Like when you do that, it seems to me like the pussy gets instantly dry. like that's that's like the wrong thing to do like you should be the prince you should be the man that the woman wants to marry fucking give her the kingdom be the prince fucking have the fucking horses there baby i'm i'm the i'm the one you fucking did it congratulations i don't know how you did it but you got me i'm the fucking she's eating the shit up george she's going like she's like i'm telling you all day long like i have a daughter like i see the programming and like what's wrong with that man but that's what it's

wrong for you the answer is you'd say the same thing you would say the same thing you would say to anybody trying to overcome their social programming why do you think that why do you dream that since when where did it come from do you think that's just because everyone else around you is doing it you think it's just because the movies you watch your kid is that an original thought or was a program programmed into you no this is something that's deeper than that

like this is something that has been in this is marriage is an every society in every country in the world. And it's something, it's a union. But not man and woman. Not all of them. There's all kinds of marriage. There's all kinds of unions and partnerships. There is.

There is. But I think, and look, I don't know around. You know, about love to recently anyways, right? I wrote about the book a little bit. It was about just like an economic household. Arranged marriages, right? Yeah. I think it's a quote in my book even where it's like,

they used to think that getting married for love was insane. Stupid. They're like, why would you put something as important in marriage as something as fickle as love that can change on any whim? Yeah. So it's a very new concept, actually, in the last only like two or three hundred years of people done that.

I mean, aren't these conversations that you should be having with your significant other? Like when, you know, when like when real feelings start to develop. up you know I've had them like I don't know if everyone has them but yeah we've had yeah yeah right so then if you're having those conversations then like what you said george you're not you're not robbing anybody of anything I don't know I mean I would like to

believe you're not but you know if if we look at how many people get divorced if if we look at how many relationships like I know some people I don't you know what like if I'm honest with myself and I look at the relationships in my family, I don't really envy any of them. You know, I don't. I think that me and my wife have the best relationship out of anybody I know. And like, I'm not, I'm being dead honest here. And I, me and my wife eloped. We didn't have a big ceremony or anything like that. But, you know, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, you know, you go down and you signed it, but, like, that's ours. Like I, you know, the wedding day.

That's something that I will cherish for my entire life. Like, for me, it's something that lives forever and it never dies. Like, you know, I can look back. I know the clothes I was wearing. I can tell my kids about it. Hey, dad, where were when you got married? What did you wear? And it's, it's more than just words.

It's more than a piece of paper. It's a signification. It's a symbol of your individual life dying. And you and this other person being bonded together forever. Your individual lives are over. That's what marriage is. Marriage isn't a continuation and having a safety net and you can leave whenever you want. And this is weak.

Marriage is two people coming together forever. And that's it. Done. Forget about it. Shit happens and maybe it cracks. But that should be the foundation of marriage is two people saying goodbye to their former selves. Two people saying, look, we're done. I've found my soul's counterpoint in the other.

We're one now. And from here on forward, we're going to act as one. It's fucking hard to do, but that should be the purpose of marriage. And it seems to me that in a society that would be amazing is if two people could come together as one and then raise their kids that way. I think that that would make for a better society. What do you think? I think it's a compelling argument, but. but again like I don't need marriage or a piece of paper or ring you know to um you know to adhere to those same

okay let me ask you this yeah isn't there's you can have all of that you can have a ceremony like right you have ceremony okay yeah declare it in front of everybody you do speak I think that's a big part of it yeah that's my next thing like she doesn't Other than the fact that it's an extremely egocentric thing to do, I did it. So I get it. Yeah. Yeah. I love my.

My wedding was awesome. It was fucking great. It was. But it is an incredibly egocentric thing when you think about it from a high level. It's like, I'm going to make everyone fly here so they can hear me go, oh, baby, I love you, and then leave. And then a few years later, oh, I'm divorced now. Sorry, my bad. Let me do it again.

Come back. Well, it should be a huge thing to do. I'm like this time. I swear. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Like, I came from, my parents got divorced. And then they, my dad got remarried like four or five more times.

My mom got remarried one more time. And so maybe, I think that that's maybe something that made me not want to get divorced. You know, I don't know. I don't know. I think you're just lucky, man. I agree. I agree. Not everyone's lucky in that shit, unfortunately.

Yeah, it's true. It's very true. I wish everybody could be. Yeah, me too. I wish I was less jaded about it, but now I'm like, I don't know. Because it used to not be, you know? Right. I guess ignorance is bliss in this particular situation.

It's just whatever happened. to you, right? You're lucky enough that it's still going strong and hopefully it stays that way, right? Yeah. And then the story makes sense for you. But I think it's a little bit more than luck, right? Like you have to work at it.

Yeah, no, no, no, no. I think there's definitely work. But I think even with the work, there's luck involved. Because it's not like I didn't work in my marriage. It just wasn't the right thing. Yeah. Yeah, it takes two. For her anyways. For her. Actually, it takes two, but it takes one too, right? If one person is like her, I don't want it anymore.

All right, well, there's something you can do about it. It's broken. This is true. Yeah. Yeah. I don't need to be married. Yeah, it's not for everybody. I don't knock anybody for doing it, but yeah. Yeah, I agree.

Personal. Would you be opposed to having a civil union, Paul? No. You have a... I'd be all for a peyote ceremony wedding. Yeah, I'm down for a silver union. Is there a piece

of paper I can sign for that? But it doesn't come with all the same rights. It's not quite a marriage certificate. What if we have like a second, maybe you could have a different kind of a, yeah, you could have like a peyote wedding or something along those lines. We should create a new one. You do it, you do it in front of

the all and nature. and you make your vow to the infinite, but there's no legal shit involved. I mean, that actually sounds kind of cool. I'd be down for that. Because that's a real commitment. That's like you're literally committing through

fucking the universe. Not some institution, some jurisdiction, not some set of laws. Right. So you bring your girlfriend, Hawaii. I'll get my, you know, I don't think she'll do peyote, though.

and I was going to say then we'll do like a double wedding right a double a double ceremonial year universe

nice if you do peyote that might be the kicker yeah there you go see she's like you get to me that way I was like well maybe if you try peyote that's like a huge step for it so see what's going down George

this is how it works right it's a negotiation right I'm with you yeah everything's a couple We're just talking it out. I'm happy to be part of it, man. I'm like the marriage counselor before the wedding. Yeah. We're going to say, beautiful.

We definitely need to have some, we could have some counseling before the ceremony so I can make it through it. Yeah, we need the counseling. You get those homeless guys playing the drums and they can, they can talk it through. We'll go down to you. And, you know, And there's a bunch of like self-ordained ministers down there.

And they'd be happy to marry. Anyone can do it in like five minutes online. Yeah. I actually used to do that. Did I tell you guys the story? I was a fake priest for a while in Japan. I read that in your book, but what's the story on that? It was so I was probably, I was there for about a year.

I was doing the teaching thing. And some guy kept trying to pawn off a Saturday language course on me. And I didn't want to do that. I said, I already teach Monday to Friday. I don't want to teach on Saturdays. It was some extracurricular private course. So I said no for a long time. And then he was about to leave Japan.

And then he told me what it really was. So it wasn't actually an English course. It was him putting on priest's robes and officiating Japanese people being married in Japanese. And I was like, well, that's just too bizarre not to try. So I was all about it. So I took it over from him. And it was this weird expat word of mouth gig that just kept getting passed down to every generation of expats that would join this program. And it was the way I described it to people, it's like if you can imagine white, yuppie California people that want to have a traditional Buddhist wedding.

And for the Buddhist monk, they just find some random Asian dude and throw orange robes on them. it's like the exact opposite of that right so there are Japanese people that had a Western style ceremony and I'm like oh here's a white guy like let's just put him at there and he'll say some stuff and then they'll kiss and then it's over so I did that for like a year probably like two to two to six of them a month

and yeah I had like my little black book with the gray tassel page holder. And I would, and I learned that part of it was in Japanese. So I would do the intro thing in Japanese. And then there was a part about Corinthians. I forget the exact page number. It was like, when I was a child, I talked like a child. And then I became a man.

And I left child to sit things behind me. There was that part, if you know it. I had that memorized at a certain point in time, not anymore. And then I do the thing and then take them to sign the paper. And then, you know, you may kiss or whatever. and there was about 20 minutes and that was it. That's so awesome. It was scary at first, but then it became fun.

Yeah. Yeah, George. So right there are the absurdities of marriage. Yeah, and it was actually interesting. You could kind of tell who was actually in love and who maybe didn't know each other too well. You could kind of get the vibe of the bride and groom. Yeah.

You go to Vegas. I mean, Vegas has some drive-through weddings. You know, it's, yeah, it can be absurd. I mean,

I'm not saying that all weddings. I think, I think our friend Benjamin wrote a book called no absolutes. So I would never use absolute as terms. You know, not all of anything, but a lot of weddings are one-night stands or there's a lot of crazy weddings. But,

you know, I think on a traditional level, for me and me, I am. I'm really lucky. like I think there's something to be said about having a piece of paper, having a commitment to somebody and giving that other person what they want. Like if my wife wants to be married and I was like, yeah, fuck yeah, you want to be married, let's do it.

You know, for me, that wasn't scary. For me, that wasn't something that was a no-go. For me, that wasn't something I should be afraid of. For me, that wasn't a deal breaker. And so, you know, while some weddings can be, silly and have Elvis represent them. Like, you know, we just had a local, a local Hawaiian lady come down and she just read a few words and we drew our names in the sand and, and we have a little memento.

It was just me and my wife. And we had, her friend came because we needed a witness. So it was like, you know, I think that here's another way too. Here's a different kind of wedding. So after we have, yeah. For quick. Yeah, please. How long have you been married?

15 years 15 years yeah oh okay nice yeah and um so after we had our ceremony

then we went back to my wife's house my wife is leocean and like she didn't tell me we were going to have a ceremony so we get there and like her dad's like hey come upstairs and he gives me this suit to put on

on my what it's kind of hot in the house man I don't think I need to wear a suit man what is this and he's like no no just put it on and I'm like why? What for? And then like my like there's a huge party going on at the house and like my my wife finally comes in and she goes oh I didn't tell you but we're going to have this wedding ceremony. What the fuck you're talking about? Why do you tell me that earlier? But then my wife put on like

this traditional gown and we sat in like the living room and everyone came over and then like everyone said all these prayers around us and they tied on like these little strings on our arms like I must have had 500 different little strings on my, on my wrist. And they tied them on, the guests would come over and they would say like a little prayer and tie a little thing on my wrist and one of my wife's list. But they were all prayers and wishes from those people, like what our life would be like and like good gracious and stuff. So the ceremony was beautiful. And that's what when you said you can have a ceremony. Like that's what I think about when you were saying that.

Like I think there's something to the ceremony. I think it's a beautiful thing. And I kind of wish looking back that my parents. could have been at my wedding, you know, I think that my mom would love to have seen her little boy get married, you know, I think my wife's dad would have liked to walk her down the aisle. And I think that there's, in those ceremonies, the wedding is not just for the bride and groom, but it's for the families, as egotistical as it is, like the families play a big role in that in different traditions and stuff. And, you know, I want my daughter to, I would love to be at

my daughter's wedding. If she wants to run away in a low, you know, so be it, but I would like to be there. Yeah, men giving away women. That's a great ceremony. Well, I mean, if you look at it like that, it sounds horrible. But you know what? If you look at like, yeah, it doesn't have to be. Maybe that's

for you, maybe that's how it would be. But it wouldn't be that way for me. It would be me. I don't get involved. Yeah, I hear you. I want to be as involved as I can, man. Like, I want the man that my daughter marries, I want to know.

I want to know more than fucking anybody in the world. Like, that's a different version of me. I think that the first woman, a man, I think that the first man a woman falls in love with is her dad. And so, like, that's my fucking job. But I want to know all that. I want to be involved in as much as I possibly

can. And I don't want to give her away. But if I have to, I want to fucking be there when it happens. Well, I mean, that's the whole idea of, like, giving this woman away, right? It's my daughter. No one's like,

you have to take her from me, but yeah, there should be a ceremony for that. Like, that's a horrible thing to have to have your daughter. Like, that's a horrible thing to, to give her away.

And no, used to get paid for it, right, old days? What's that? Yeah, I got to pay for it. You're right. Wouldn't you know,

I think the old days, didn't you used to get paid? Wasn't there like a, they'd have to pay the bride price or something? Yeah, the father pays a dowry. And those are back to the arranged marriages, right?

Yeah. Well, now the brother, you know, pays for the wedding. Yeah, like we've kept some of that intact. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the whole thing is kind of sick and twisted.

But, you know, people want to participate in it. And I'm not, you know, I was joking when I said that. Yeah, it's, I don't know. I mean, it comes down to, to, seeing it how you want to. Like if you, if you want to see it as sick and twisted, I think it speaks volumes of the way you look at maybe some relationships.

Like, it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be sick and twisted. It should be beautiful. Yeah, but again, you know, it's like,

it's like look at the, you know, look where these traditions are rooted in, right? Like, I keep talking about like, you know, like this man is giving her,

his daughter away to another man. You know, like, don't see any issue in that well my next father-in-law didn't pay for our wedding damn it yeah not really like i mean hopefully your daughter's marrying someone she wants to marry yeah but no the groom doesn't get you know isn't given away no a daughter's a daughter until a daughter's a daughter for all of her life a son is a son until he finds a son a son until he finds a son is a son until he finds a wife, a daughter is a daughter for all of her life.

Like your daughter, I mean, I think that, you know, yeah, you have to give your, is it, are you giving her away or are you giving your blessing? You know, depending on how you translate terms of traditional ceremonies, it can mean a lot of things. But if you interpret it as like, I'm giving her away, like she's a piece of me. I still think that that's still kind of beautiful in a way. Like she's a piece of you, man. Like you're you're giving up part of you so that she can become her own part in her own family. Like you're giving that away. Like that's that's sacrifice, man.

That's that's fucking, you know, it's, I guess if you're looking at it from like a misogynist point of view, like men own women, but like it doesn't have to be looked at that way. And I think it's an oversimplifies it, man. Like you can see it that way. And though, it's rooted in that very thing. And the blessing part is the groom to be asking the father's permission to marry this girl. Yes, yes. That's a beautiful thing too. Oh, that's why I didn't pay for it.

I never did that. Yeah, you're supposed to do that, right? But yeah, I mean, but like, you know, whatever you think marriage is now, you know, but that's what it's rooted in. But it's what you believe. It's not what it's rooted in. It's what you and the person you're marrying believe it is. Right. Fuck everybody else.

It's like it's what you got. It's your marriage. So what's so different about that and believing like we don't need the ceremony or the piece of paper to know that we are dedicated, committed and, you know, and care for each other deeply? Like if you can go ahead and say, you know, like if you're okay to shape it, then I'm okay to define it. Yeah, look, I don't see a problem with it. Like, I'm just giving you my opinion of why I think for me it's the right thing and why I think not having it is weak. This is just my opinions of it. And so if you ask me what was wrong with that, if the question is, what is wrong with not having it?

I think that it allows, I see the opposite of your arguments in that, like, it allows for an easy out. There is no net. Like, yeah, you just fucking walk away. what kind of a commit that's not a commitment then like that you're not committed then like if if you are committed then the paper doesn't the paper cannot mean anything in a good way or not mean anything in a bad way so if it doesn't mean anything i'll fucking sign it because my word is my bond here i'll sign it right here take it if the paper means something to you i'll sign it you know but like if it it just seems there's a level of fear on it for signing it and that's just my opinion i guess but

I forgot where I was going with this even. No, I mean, there's no level of fear for signing it. It's a ceremony that I don't believe in, right? It's an act. I don't, you know, that I don't believe in. And neither does my significant other. Right. Right.

We don't see any value in that. Yeah. Then that's, that's fine. And so my, you know, my commitment to her and her commitment to me is, you know, it's, it's, it's substantial, you know. Absolutely. And, um, and again, like, I, you know, like, I don't think that signing a piece of paper would make it any stronger. And I don't think that, you know, getting in front of a bunch of people and professing my love for this person, you know, would make it any better either. But don't you think your wife would love that? Does you think your wife

wants you to stand in front of a crowd of people and be like, I love this woman more than anything on the planet. Like, I think that, I think that that's something that you should do. But don't you think she wants you to do that? No, I don't think she wants me to do that. All right. All right. Like, I think that's a romantic thing to do. Call me old-fashioned, but, I mean, you know what I mean? I think that you should do that. I think you should give that woman the goddamn fantasy more than she's ever, even a marriage. George. George. I am. Call me old fashion, right?

God damn man. Jesus Christ. All masculine and shit. White male, gender male in his traditions. Yeah, right. We're going to be the death of everybody.

Yeah. Yeah. You're going to be your dinosaur. Oh, hang on. I just want to put up this quote. We have an amazing, look, here's one. Give her the wedding.

Give her the wedding. What a surprise. Thank you, Raquel. Well, maybe it's just who better to speak on it, right? Then she's voicing the women. So it seems like all the women. As Osho said, an ideal world would have every woman being married and every man being unmarried. That's hard to do.

Yeah. Impossible. You know what? One thing I've learned, like, about love being older is that it seems, I remember I once had a friend tell me my friend Ed who was anti-marriage.

He was, we were talking about love and he's like, you know the problem with love, George? This one person is always more in love than the other person. That's the problem. And I was like, fuck, I started thinking about relationships I was in

and then I started thinking about friends that I know and I thought about his relationship. And I'm like, My answer to that is yes, but that switches back and forth. I think if you're together with somebody long enough, you go through periods where you love that person more and then that person loves you more. But that oscillation of love between you,

it's a fucking beautiful and scary thing to see because there are times in a relationship where you're like, this person loves me more. And you know it, you might take advantage of it. And you know, it trips you out to start thinking about that. That's, I think that that is when men go through this part of the relationship. That's when they find themselves in trouble. It's when they find themselves wanting to cheat.

But if you wait around a little bit, that shit comes back. And now all of a sudden, you start seeing all the things that your wife or your woman did for you. And you're like, oh, my God, I'm a total piece of shit. I fucking love this one. Why is she still with me? You know, and then all of a sudden you can see now it's her turn. And it's like this, it's like a magnet. Like the force just goes from north and south and north and south and around and around.

And I think once you get to a point in a relationship where you can see that love moving between you like that, oscillating. They're more in love. I'm more in love. They're more in love. Pretty soon you understand this cycle. Pretty soon you begin to understand what love is. But I don't think you can get there until you have been in a relationship with someone for, you know, a long, time, you know, and it's a different, even though that similar type of love may be in relationships

with family members, I think it's different when it's someone that you're having sex with, or it's someone that you're romantically and physically, you know, or connected by children with it. But it's an interesting thing that I learned about love. I just wanted to share that with you guys. What do you guys think about that? You know, it's even more romantic than that, George? A night in Vegas?

A signed document. well they go hand in hand right yeah i mean i hear what you're saying but you know i don't know what that has to do with like getting married but yeah yeah it well i think i think i've noticed it because i am married and i don't know if i would have noticed that unless i was in a long-term relationship not necessarily married but you know for me it was because i was married but i i think you could see that same pattern in a long-term relationship regardless well i mean you know there's a of commitment there, right? Yeah, agreed.

I mean, like my relationship, you know, it's, yeah, there's been, there's been times when I've, you know, been head over heels in love with this woman. Yeah. There's been times when I've been like the fuck out of my life. Right. And I'm sure that, you know, I'm sure the same thing has been,

and it's been true for her. In fact, I know it's been true, right? Sure. And so, you know, but we've always stayed together. We've, you know, we've always found a way to communicate. And, you know, and, you know, the good times way outweighed the bad times. And, you know, so if there's something worth, you know, if it's worth it, then you stick with it. If it's not, then, you know, go do something else.

But what happened is a day? It's all choice. But it's all choice. Either way, you slice it, right? You keep choosing to be with the person. The choice is maybe harder to make if you have other obstacles in the way, like the threat of divorce or whatever. But in the end of the day, it's still the same.

You can get divorced. Like, people do it all the time. So there's still a choice there. Yeah, I agree. What if there was no fault? What if we took away the opposite of no fault divorce? Well, then you live in the state of Hawaii, George? So what are the valid reasons for divorce then?

I'm sorry, I heard both people at the same time. Oh, I said, if you don't have no fault divorced, then what are the valid reasons, I guess, that you could get divorced? I don't know. I'm genuinely asking. That's a good question. I think that infidelity. Only physical or emotional infidelity? too. I think much like 16

candles, you have to hold up the panties. What if you don't actually do anything physical, but you're sharing this connection with somebody that's deep Yeah, I hear you. That's but you don't act on it.

Is that in fidelity? I think it would have to be physical. I think you could over, I think that a deep emotional connection, while very powerful is not it's a little hairy when we get this state and stuff and laws and they're dictating what should happen yeah i agree i i i i hear you i think the the i think the reasoning behind the no-fault divorce is to make it And I don't know if it does, but I think I'm just saying the reason behind that no-fault divorce is to make it incredibly difficult to not get divorced.

You know, there, it's, and that would make a piece of paper become even more scary if once you got in it would be very, very difficult to get out of it. But I think the reasoning behind that is to say like, this is a serious thing. You should really think about this before you get involved in this, you know, because you can't get out once you get in. that that may make less people get married it it may make marriage a more serious thing it may make people it may make it may make more people stay in abusive relationships i don't know but i was just curious to what you guys thought about that as a an option i mean it sounds like it it makes that paper more like tenure like how so Well, you know, like you're talking about the difficulties of getting divorced when you get tenured, you know, it's very difficult to become, to get fired, right?

So that's a problem where now people can behave poorly or, you know, or, you know, perform poorly at their jobs and still keep their jobs, which has been my argument about the whole divorce thing with this signed piece of paper, right? Is that, you know, once you have it, then it makes it to get out. I got kicked off. Oh. No, no worries. So the piece of paper, George, is like tenure. Well, there's a lot of ways to look at it, man. I don't, I don't know that the piece of paper would change your relationship in a matter of years.

You know what I mean? Like, I think the people that get tenure looking forward to that, making that 10th year so that they can not have something being held over their head. But I don't see how, I don't see how the same. thing flows that way. Well, you were saying, you know, that when you have this signed document and it becomes very difficult, like it's, it's, it's discourages people from pursuing divorce, right? Yeah, yeah. Typical process.

And so what I'm saying is that same piece of paper can act like tenure, right? And that once you obtain it, right, then it's very hard for you to get fired from your job. You perform poorly. And so, you know, maybe people are like, okay, I have this document so I can perform poorly in this relationship because it's a hard thing to break up. Yeah. I bet that's true for a lot of people. Yeah. I see what you're saying now.

Yeah, there's a lot of truth in that. Like, hey, we're in this together. You can't leave so I could do whatever I want. Right. And I mean, there are some countries where like divorce is not allowed. right so you know people you know people live lives with with other people that they despise you know because they're stuck they're stuck and and then like you know at least in some of these places where you know there's rampant's amount of infidelity at least on the man's side right

right and and here here here's this woman stuck in this relationship that she's never going to get out of And that's a problem. And so that's, you know, when we started talking about this, you know, my thought was, you know, apply that to, you know, this piece of paper that's holding people together and allowing them to behave poorly because they know that the piece of paper holds them together. Whereas in my situation, there is no piece of paper. So I can't behave poorly. Well, it sounds like you've got to figure it out, man. I do, man. Yeah, I got one for you.

Could you continue to be with a woman that has been unfaithful to you? Are you asking me? I'm not sure. Yeah, this one sounds better. And you came back in perfect timing because we got a question from one of our listeners here. And she says, can you continue to be with? a woman that has been unfaithful to you. So I guess, I guess for me, I don't think I could.

I would always wonder as soon as someone was, as soon as someone cheats on you, they're going to cheat on you again, man. They cheat on you once, definitely going to cheat on you again. You shouldn't be in that relationship. And even if you, even if you are, the bond is broken. Like you've broken that trust and that person will never trust you again. You may, even if you don't cheat on them again, maybe you made one of, mistake and you won't you done them again

but that person will never fully trust you again. So my my yeah right I think that that it's like that that scene from that movie I forget where the guy says you know fidelity savings alone is a tough creditor

you start deposits in another bank and they close your account yep yeah I mean I don't think so that you know that's that's a deal breaker because yeah because you know, then it's like the trust, right? That's a big, you know, you've eroded almost, you know, pretty much all trust.

And that's hard to build back. Yeah. You know, because in the back of your mind, it's always going to be there, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, no matter how much you want to say, like, no, I'm cool. You know what I mean? Like, we work through it or whatever.

And then the thing is, it's like, it's like, I know there's. I know there's a statistic out there that points to, like, people who cheat are most likely to do it again. Yeah. What about you, Kev? Can you continue to be with a woman that has been unfaithful to you? I think that's a no. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right.

I think that's right. Oh, man. Yeah, what about you, George? Yeah, I agree. I couldn't. I couldn't. And that's the same reason I couldn't never cheat on anybody. It's like I, you know, for me, I signed a piece of paper.

And on that piece of paper, I made a commitment to myself, my wife, and the relationship. And someone breaks that commitment. And, you know, it's over. You would never trust him again. You know, it's interesting when, you know, I'm, I mean, shit, I think everybody knows people who have, have cheated on their significant other, and they have kids, and they want to stay together for the kids. And, you know, I don't know what the right thing to do is in that particular scenario. But I know the relationship's never the same again.

And then people start getting mad, how, that was one time. How can you still hold that over my head? And, you know, but it's over at that point in time. It's probably, you know what, it's probably been over for a long time. it's probably been over if that person it's probably been over for a long time if that person cheats on you right? Yeah you know I mean you're probably

missing the signs along the way yeah I agree you know and and but still right it's like you know people who signed that piece of paper generally aren't looking for the signs because they got that piece of paper right

it's those who didn't sign the piece of paper yeah that are looking for the signs right? Some people might say that that piece of paper gives you the license to cheat it's like a license to cheat well that's what mean it's like tenure you know it's like yeah it's you know and i'm just saying it's not true in all cases but i'm sure it's true in some cases where you know it is a net that allows people to behave poorly in a relationship right especially like you know it's you know there are some cultural things that are involved in marriage right where it's like yeah i'm married right right

Right. And, and usually like, you know, marriages, and I don't know a lot about marriage, but in the ones that I've seen, you know, and the stuff that I've witnessed, you know, marriage is very, it's male dominated, right? Where it's almost like the man is gaining all this stuff and, you know, and freedoms and liberties and, and it seems like the woman gives up so much. Okay. I'm hearing this. I hear. I hear. Keep hearing this pattern in what you're saying about marriage. Like, number one, you're like, you know, I don't like the fact that the man gives away a woman. And then you say things like, yeah, you know, in some cultures, like the man's getting everything. Like, it seems to me like you have a pretty negative view about men in marriage. No, I mean, it's look at, it's look at history. Like, just go back to the early, you know, examples of marriage.

Yeah, it was all about the man, you know. I know, but why do you keep bringing that up? Like, why does that bother you so much? Well, because I don't think it's, because I don't think marriage is an institution that needs to be honored. So you're finding ways to make it look less honorable? I don't think I need to find ways, George. I think they're there. Right. But specifically about men, though. Right, because marriage doesn't seem to be, like, at least in the ceremonial part of it, you know, an equal practice.

I think maybe, I think maybe you're afraid of, and I don't mean, I don't mean that, I don't mean this. a mean spirit away. I think maybe you're afraid of what men can do to women. And like, that's coming through in your personality. And, you know, I, I, when you speak about, look how men treat women. Like, it seemed like there's more there to me. You know what I mean? Like, just the examples you gave about, like, I think that's something to do with marriage, man. Like, how could it not? You know what I mean? Like, I, I see that. in the language that you're using. But I don't think it has to be.

Like, you're a fucking tremendous man. You love your wife. Like, you are fucking, I look up to you in a lot of ways. I think that you would be a great husband in a marriage. So I just, I wonder if, like, you could see marriage in a way

where the man was a great husband and a great man, and he had a, great wife, like even though, like, could you, could you see relationships where that is there? And does that make sense? Well, I mean, I think that I see that in a lot of marriages that I'm going to. Right? That there are great husbands and great fathers, great wives and others.

Yes. Right. But to me, it's just, it's this practice, ceremonial practice, right? that is a little bit demeaning to women, regardless of whatever, you know, whatever cultural, what a Kevin call it, cultural, should, I can't remember. But whatever, you know, whatever traditions that women,

you know, I've played out in their minds about being married and getting married. But not in our society. Like, weddings aren't demeaning for women in our societies, though, right? I mean, the husband, you know,

here's the wife's father giving her away. Well, if that was true, why, if that was true, why would so many women want to get married if it was demeaning for them?

Well, I mean, it's like this symbolic act, right, that you are being given to another man. That's your interpretation of the act. No, that's exactly what's happening.

Well, I think if you ask a woman, like, how she feels about it, I don't think she would have the same feeling that you do as it being like this demeaning thing. I have no idea. I can't speak for women. Well, you don't have to speak for them. All you have to do is look at how many women want to get married and want to have their father walk them down the aisle.

Like, they wouldn't want to be demeaned in front of their clums. closest people that love them. Like they wouldn't want to be demeaned that way. And I can understand how it may depend on cultures, but we're just talking about our society. And if it was demeaning, the women are not massacists where they want to be just demeaned in front of the people they love the most.

They want to be married. They want, not all of them, but a lot of women want to have a ceremony. They want to have this transition where their father walks them down the aisle one last time. then they start their new life. But like I can you see it like does it does it does it?

It doesn't have to be demeaning does it? How come the how come the groom's mother doesn't walk the groom down and give him away? Because in the society men have roles and women have roles. Yeah. And why come the woman doesn't go out and fight fight and the man stay home and and cook? Okay, I don't know where you're going with that. but I'm talking about men, right? Yeah, men have roles.

Like, that's the ceremony. Right. It's a ceremonial thing that's rooted in all kinds of weirdness. But it doesn't have to be, like, you specifically describing demeaning to it, I think is inaccurate. Because it's your opinion of what it is. And the fact that so many women do it. I'm arguing that women do not want to be in a giant ceremony where everyone looks them in a negative way.

They went with the opposite of that. And what you're saying is a man walking down his wife or his daughter, walking his daughter down is demeaning to that woman. It sounds like it's demeaning to you. But that's not the overall perspective that everybody's seeing. No, and I'm not saying that it's the overall perspective that everybody's saying. But I think, I mean, you know, I mean men and. You think it's demeaning.

Yeah, I just think it's, it's symbolic of, of a time. when, you know, women didn't have any say in who they married, or very little say in who they married. And there was a husband, you know, or a father, you know, for money in many cases, gave his daughter to another man. And to make everybody feel good, they threw a party. Yeah, I could see a lot of girl, like, I could see a lot of heartache in a situation like that. I agree.

I don't know anybody that's been in an arranged marriage, but I could see how it would be very difficult. I'm glad I don't know anybody in that situation. I wouldn't want to put my daughter, I wouldn't want to give my daughter to someone strictly for money. But, you know, I bet if you ask the father of someone who is giving their daughter in an arranged marriage, I bet you he wouldn't say that what he's doing is strictly giving his daughter to this person for money. I bet you he would say something that like, you know, this is culturally appropriate and it's honoring our daughter.

It's honoring our families. It's honoring something that these kids don't know enough to make a decision in. They don't understand what love is. But we, as their parents, understand what's best for them. And so, you know, it's difficult. for us in our culture to lay blame or try to interpret what's right in another culture. I'm not pointing to another culture when I talk about these things. I'm talking about like American culture.

Right. So then I guess I'm confused because I, it seemed to me that a lot of the arguments you were pointing out were from different cultures, like arranged marriages and from... Those occurred in America. Yeah, they probably still do today. But I don't think, yeah, but I don't know of any. So when I talk about our society, I guess when I'm talking about my culture,

I'm talking about the people that I have known and I grow up with and my family. So I don't know. The 1800s, early 1900s, there was a lot of arranged marriages in America, you know, that were, you know, Christian and Christian. Catholic. Right. Right. So that's what I'm referring to. And I'm also referring to, yeah, you know, there's some of these things are still practiced, you know, like they're dominant in other cultures around the world today,

for sure. But these are all things that occurred here in America. Here's a, yeah. And so like, you know, to me it's, it's like, it's still, it's still the same symbology, right? It's the act. This is what we're doing, right? Now, maybe people aren't thinking about it when they're, you know, like, oh, it would just be cool to do this, you know? And this is what I've always seen, like, you know, the father giving away his daughter. Okay. And some women actually are like, yeah, hey, I'm into that.

But I don't know how many of those people are actually stopping and thinking about the symbolism that goes into those, you know, those traditions, into those. into those ceremonies and what they actually really mean. But is it possible that maybe you don't know what it really means? Maybe he's not giving away his daughter. Maybe he's giving away the protection.

Hey, I protect this woman. This is me protecting my daughter. And now I allow you to protect her. What's the difference? The difference is as a father, you cannot protect her forever, but you can find someone that will. I mean, I don't know.

know a lot about the Bible, but isn't there some stuff in there that talks about, like, you know, ownership of women, you know, during the, you know, the marriage ceremony, like, she becomes your property. Yeah, but that doesn't, I mean, that's not something that you. It becomes the property of a man. Well, I've never read the Bible in the true, in Hebrew or in Greek. And I think translation means interpretation. And I think when you're translating text from like a thousand years ago, things get lost in translation.

Different words have different meanings. So I don't know about that. But you can describe whatever meaning you want to it. Go ahead. I agree. But these ceremonies are in direct correlation with the translation or the direct meaning. But it's one of the two. So what does it matter?

It matters immensely. It doesn't matter. immensely, yes. If people believe that this is what the Bible is saying, so they're out there acting upon it, then what does it matter? This is what they believe. And so what I'm saying is, is if the Bible is saying that men have ownership over women after marriage,

then what does it matter if that's a direct translation from Hebrew, into whatever language that is practicing, you know, this part of the Bible. What does that matter? Because they believe it to be true. And so they're doing it, which makes it even worse. Is your argument that, like, so I guess I get kind of confused maybe. Is your argument that weddings, a man walking his daughter down the aisle is demeaning? Is that the argument?

Yeah. I mean, the argument is that the symbolism of a man walking his daughter down the aisle is the meaning to women. That's my argument. And whether... But why... And we have to establish why he's... I think that we're getting caught up in, like, we don't agree on why he's walking his daughter down the aisle. Let's try to figure that out.

Okay. In order to figure that out, then you have to look back in history and figure out and figure out where. and understand where the practice started, right? Which I think I made a pretty clear argument about where the practice started and how it started. Not necessarily where, but how. I think you've made a good argument on why you think it's demeaning. And I think I made a good argument as to why I think it's demeaning. And the fact that this act is rooted in tradition, right?

which goes back thousands of years and the origins of these things of this act didn't really benefit women at all. I don't know if I could agree with that. But I think, yeah, I don't know. I think that on a whole, you could definitely, and I think you argued it well, I think you could definitely make the argument

that a man giving away a woman as a piece of property is demeaning. My argument is that when a father walks, when I as a father walk my daughter down the aisle, I'm not giving away a piece of property. I am walking with my daughter one last time in a symbolic gesture that I will no longer be the most important man in her life. and you could say that I'm giving her away, or you could say that a piece of me is leaving.

But I think that there's something incredibly beautiful and sacrificing and symbolizing the idea of like, and very fucking painful. Look, I'm no longer the most important man in her life. So George, you can't sacrifice what isn't yours. Well, I think that you can't. You can look at your child as a piece of you. And I think that you can let go a piece of you.

And that's sacrifice, man. I get it. And that may be your interpretation of the modern ceremony of marriage, in which I would challenge that and say, then why is the groom's mother walking him down the aisle in the same tradition that you just described as a man walking the bride down the aisle. Because a mother doesn't stand for a son the same way a father stands for a daughter.

The father-daughter relationship is vastly different than the mother's son relationship. Is it? Absolutely. So you're making my argument. Okay. How's so? Okay. No.

You know, I mean, it's just like, like I said, man, it's not a ceremony. that's rooted in equality at all. Why? Because the relationships are different? No, because the ceremonial meaning of them is different. Well, I would, I would, we have to, we have to move back because there is no equality. Men and women are different. Relationships are different.

And to base something on equality, I think is, is, is naive. Right? We're not equal. We'll never be equal. Men and women will never, ever, ever, ever be equal. I mean, according to you, we can make it what we want, right? And we can define our own logic. I think that you can live in a world that you imagine the best possible life for yourself.

Okay. And a world in which men transfer ownership of women from one man to another? If that's the world, like you live in that world. That's your idea of what marriage. is. That's your idea of what giving a daughter away is. Not mine. Well, no, that's, that, that is the symbolic meaning of what

giving a daughter away is. No, that's your interpretation of it. No, no, no, my interpretation. You don't just say my interpretation of it. Crack open a history book, George. I do. I crack them open all the time. Okay, well, you know, then I'm surprised to hear you make this argument

because that's exactly what the traditional sense of marriage was. according to, well, I think that when we like, again, like we were talking about trying to interpret different cultures, right? The idea of property may mean something different to you today than it did to somebody 400 years ago in Israel. Is that possible? It's possible, but then, you know, it's not likely? It's possible. It's likely.

It's more than likely. The definition of property and the definition of family meant something radically different a hundred years ago than it does today. And for us to try to put our values on somebody 100 years ago is silly. Well, this is, you're the guy who would argue the rights of rituals, right? I don't know that I would argue the rights of rituals. What does that mean? What does the rights of rituals mean? How would I argue it?

Like, you made an argument a couple months ago. Okay. Supporting rituals and that we've moved away from rituals and that it's this ritual, it's the rituals that help define and shape the societies that we live in. I think rituals are important. Yeah. Right? Right. So how can you be four rituals and then, you know, because shit, man.

Like, if you're for rituals, then you should at least understand what the ritual of marriages. As should you, my friend. You're ascribing your meaning to other people's rituals. You're describing your interpretation of other people's rituals and trying to tell them to me. I'm not interpreting anything. You are. You are. No, I'm not, George.

So this is a, so you know for a fact that these women were property, the exact way you think property is. If I went back a hundred years ago and said, this is Paul Paul's definition of property. No, not really. Well, the Bible talks about that. And this is where... Again, we've already talked about the interpretations of the Bible.

But so it doesn't matter. Oh, it does. Interpretation is everything. Interpretation is everything. No, no, no. Not in this sense, George. In every sense. No, because here's what I'm saying is it doesn't matter if the Bible is

poorly interpreted. What matters is that people believe that interpretation and act upon it. That's what matters. Someone acting on a poorly interpreted text is not them acting on the meaning of the text. That's them acting on someone's interpretation of it. There's a difference, right? If the book says, love your neighbor, but I say, hey, what it really says, you should punch your neighbor in the face.

And then you go punch your neighbor in the face. You're not getting the meaning of the text. So poorly interpreted text is a huge problem. And I'm saying that we, you know, I'm saying that the majority of people have never read the text in Hebrew or in Greece or in Greek or whatever. And I think that the meanings have changed. Like just look at the way words change today. That doesn't matter. It does matter.

I get in a literal sense to you, it matters. but what, but it's not, what are you going to do, George? You're going to walk, walking into the Vatican and tell the Pope, hey man, listen, you guys interpreted this whole thing wrong.

And so therefore, you've got to cut out all of these things that you guys have been practicing for thousands of years. What I'm saying is that the interpretation doesn't matter. What matters is that people understand it to be a certain way and then they act upon that. that's what matters. Of course.

But what are you basing that on? Like the only thing you're basing on is you're saying this is what it is, George. You're telling me, George, a man is giving away a woman and that's property and that's how it is and everybody believes that. That's not true. It may not be true today, but there was a period in time when that was true, George, and that's where these things are rooted in. What period of time was that? When was that true? I would say this is true all up until the 20th century.

And are you basing that on the hundreds of accounts of people that you've known? Or like, what are you basing this truism on? Okay. I'm basing it on like, you know, history that I've read. Okay. The Bible. No, no. Other history.

Okay. Which one? Which one? I don't have to think this for a minute. No, but it's there. I think there's probably plenty of accounts. accounts of people saying that and doing that. But I'm just challenging, like, it's one thing to read something like that.

But I am challenging the idea of a man walking his daughter down and the idea may come across as this is my property. Maybe, and maybe that's the truth. But might the truth also be like I'm transferring protection from this person? Might the truth be something more than just a reduction to property? Like, I think it's pretty reductive just to see a person. like that. And I think humans are humans. And I think that they a father cares about his daughter, whether it was

100 years ago, 50 years ago, or a thousand years ago. I don't think we've changed that much as humans. I don't. So I, so it's difficult for me to, to, to do that. So just because this property doesn't mean you can't care for it. Is that what you're saying? Like, I'm saying that there's a difference between property and people. Look, you can, it both things. can be true. You can use something as being property and you can care for it and love it. Both things can be true. So you're saying we're both right? No, I'm saying I'm wrong. You're wrong. And that's, I mean, that's what marriage was. Of course, it's evolved. So if you, if you're looking at marriage today, it's hard to believe that marriage is once this,

you know, transfer of property and that there was ownership, right? And that a man, you know, had domain over a woman, right? It's hard, it's hard to believe, like looking around today. Well, it's actually not that hard to believe, but, you know, in many instances, it could be really hard to believe that that's exactly what's happening. Right? Like, oh, really? Like, I never saw it that way, but the clues are there, George.

Right? No, I don't think so. the clues are there. You know, like, in your argument that because there's a different dynamic between a, a mother and a son,

doesn't mean that the same act of giving away should not occur. Well, you'd have to go back to the, I mean, there could be, I don't know enough about the actual ritual of marriage to thoroughly understand everything there. But I,

I could see, if you, like, you've made a very, some passionate arguments. I don't agree with them, but I think they're passionate. And because you've made those,

arguments, I can thoroughly understand why you don't like that. And I could, I could fully understand your point of why you think it's demeaning. I can get it 100% now. But, but none of those things, George, like I tried to explain to you, are the reasons why I'm not married. It might be a little bit of the reason why you're not married. I mean, you argued pretty passionately about the demeaning of women in marriage. So that might be, that might have something to do with it. I don't believe in marriage. Do you think that the demeaning of women may have something to do with it, though?

You know what? No, because I've never believed in marriage before I even thought about the symbolism in it. You've never believed in it? No, I've never pictured myself as being someone who was going to be married. I never, you know, I just, I never, I thought it was, I don't even had a young, young age. You know, I kind of thought it was, you know, like gimmicky. What if you wanted to steal man it? Could you tell me like some awesome things about marriage? If what? What if you wanted to steal man the argument? Like let's try to think about it from like a good

perspective. Like try to imagine like it's a great party. It's a great party, right? Great party. Yeah. You have a bachelor's party. Did you go to Mike Nicholson's bachelor party? No, I didn't go to Mike Nicholson's wedding Have you gone to any bachelor parties? I went to one bachelor party, yeah Did you go to any cool weddings where like It was a party that like That you were happy to be at?

Um, no, I can't say that I have Has your wife ever gone to any like bridesmaids parties Or gone to any weddings that she liked? Um Well, I think she was in Mike and Jen's wedding Mm-hmm So if you've never been to a wedding or been part of it, is it fair to say that you've never really experienced a wedding? I've been to like a couple weddings, like a couple.

A couple? Yeah. And you didn't, when you were there, did you not like them? When my mom and my stepdad got married. Oh, right. That's like the first wedding I remember going to. I don't think I went to any of my parents' step. That sounds kind of odd.

like I don't know was that an odd feeling being there yeah like it was it was it was like the last place I wanted to be yeah that's the last place I would want to be it's a weird feeling to have a step parent

it's a weird thing especially when you're like at a teenager and you're like this person's not my dad this person's not my mom but yet you're put in this position where you're supposed to treat them like that. Yeah, well, I mean, and I don't think that's true for everybody. You know, I think there are, you know,

I think there are plenty of really good relationships between children and step-parents. Yeah, I'm not saying that they're not good relationships. I'm just saying it's awkward for the kid. I don't think that there's any relationships where it's not awkward for the kid. Yeah. Well, you know, maybe.

you know what about what about what about what about kids who have been with their stepparents since the time they were infants and have no recollection of their biological parent that is you know never been in their life you're right i should refine what i said i should i should make it more like anybody who is maybe that maybe there's an age where it's prime awkwardness yeah i think that's probably the better way to to to put it. Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely there's there's like a point when yeah, when you're like, you know, really conscience of like. Yeah. Yeah. If you're real little like you don't you don't even really know. And same thing if you're too old. Like if you're in your 20s, I don't give a fuck, go ahead. Well, what I'm saying, what I was saying is like there are

instances where you know, this person has been a stepparent since the child was an infant and maybe. Maybe they didn't get married until the child was in his or her teens or, you know what I mean? Right. That's a good point. And so it's not, it's not so awkward, right? Because these are just the people that have been in their lives. It'd be similar to like me and my wife getting married right now.

And my kid's going, whoa, really? No, because that wouldn't be a step-parent. Like, that's the person they've known forever. Like if- Yeah. In the step-parent scenario that I laid out, too, that's been the parent, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I was just saying, like, for people that are teenagers or, like, somewhere between, like, 9 and 14 or maybe 7.

I don't know what the bottom age would be. Maybe even four or five. Yeah, but then I think it goes away after, like, you know, like 18, 19, 20, right? Then all of a sudden it's like, you know, mom or dad gets remarried and, you know, and has grown kids. and they don't really fucking care. You know what I'm saying? It's not so awkward. Yeah, yeah.

It definitely, it definitely loosens its grip on you, you know? But I, like the step-parent doesn't really care about you as much as as the other parent does. And, you know, it just begs the question. Like, like, one person has to get, like, like, when I think about, like, my mom, needed to have some security. She wanted to have a relationship and she wanted a better life for her kids. So she got remarried because you can't, she had a better chance of living the life she wanted to marry than she did single. And so, you know, it's just, it's an interesting mindset to put yourself in someone that gets divorced with kids and then what do you do from there?

you know, okay, well, I still want to be married or I still want to have this kind of relationship. You know, it's, it makes me, I don't know, it makes me sympathetic to people that get divorced, regardless of why they get divorced. Like it's a very difficult position to be in. It is. You know, and then if there's children involved, then you're putting everybody in a difficult position. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's the problem. And then, you know, so often, like, parents get remarried to people who don't value their children. Yeah. In the same way, you know, in the way that they should be valued. And then, you know, and those step, you know, parents, their families don't value those kids. Yeah. And, you know, and that's, that's not. a good thing.

Yeah. So there's, you know, so when these unions are made, when there's, you know, kids involved and there's step-parents involved, you know, it's up to the, it's up to the biological parent to make sure, you know, that, hey, you know, like, it's going to be difficult. And this is what people should think about before getting divorced, right? It could be difficult for me to find a life partner, moving forward that's going to value my kids in the way that they deserve to be valued. And if I never find that person and I'm putting my kids first, right?

And I never find that person. Then, freaking bright, freaking light over my house. And check it out. And if I never find that person, then there's a good chance to live my life single, right? Yeah.

Yeah, without a doubt. And so, you know, I think you have to take all that stuff into account. Yeah. I don't, man. You know, I mean, it's for the, it's for the good of the kids. Yeah. But too often, right, we know that too often, that doesn't happen. Right.

Parents go out there, they're not putting their kids first. They meet somebody who's, you know, not so good to their kids. And they, you know, and to some degree they accept it. Yeah. I wonder how much is that an, like it seems a big part of it is that a necessity. Yeah, it could be, you know. Look, I mean, it's these things like put people in difficult situations, right? Yeah.

And, um, and, you know, some people are faced with like survival choices. Yeah. You know, divorce. And, you know, I mean, I understand that most people, you know, people are trying to do what they think is right. And they make sacrifices. And sometimes those sacrifices, although you may think they're small, you know, have real life consequences for the people involved moving forward, especially when it comes to children. and you know it's it's it's it's you know it's it's it's a sad thing and you know there's there's there's really no way around it like it's a reality of divorce like everybody gets injured

yeah yeah it's it's a horrible thing but paula pow we did about four hours my friend I know, right? You've done about eight hours of podcasting today. Maybe. Yeah. Well, I don't know how you and Ben went for hours, man. You guys had a couple hours podcast. Yeah, we did.

This one's coming up on four hours right now. So I think we, I love it, brother. It's a great conversation, man. I really appreciate it. And we'll meet up tomorrow for the roundtable, buddy. Yeah. Sounds good, man. All right, brother.

We'll send my love to the family. Always a pleasure. We got Kevin to join us today for a little bit. Be one for the books. Yeah, hell yeah. Well, thanks for having me, George. The pleasure's all mine, brother. I feel like I've got out what I needed to get out,

and I had a great conversation. And we had some people join us. Raquel, thank you very much for joining the chat and answering and asking some questions. We're happier here. to everybody else who was able to join in and ask some questions. We're usually here on Saturday night's open lines. So come and check us out. That's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen.

Yep. Aloha. Aloha.