TrueLife - The Psychedelic Roundtable

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/Ever wonder what the drug policy in Norway is like? Ever wanted to start a psychedelic movement in another country. In this episode we do that! A truly psychedelic episode…Tor Seppola: www.thefmlproject.comAnthony Bailey: https://www.entheogenbiotech.ca/ One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Fearist through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Seraphini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the world famous True Life podcast. We've got a bunch of people chiming in here. Some people are setting up, so it may take us a little moment to, get to get things going. But we've got Paula Powell from Hawaii.

We've got Anthony B. coming in from Canada. We got Tor all the way from Scandinavia hanging out. He's going to be streaming live to his audience as well. While people are setting up, Paul, are you there, my friend? Yeah, I'm here. Nice. It's happy to see you, my friend.

I know that you know Tor. You may not know Anthony, though. And as I was speaking to Tor earlier, Anthony is a, coming to us from Canada, him and his partner have a lab in Jamaica where they are, they've banked something crazy like, I don't know, 50 different strains of psilocybin that they're working with. And they're at a point now where they're, I think they may have signed some disclosures with some private corporations, but I think that they also are shipping psilocybin out to places

where it is legitimate. So he's a cool cat where we bringing him in. Anthony, are you there, my friend? He might not be chiming in. What are you up to, Paul? How are things going? Good. Nice.

Very nice. Same stuff. You know, it's kind of working on farm stuff. And, yeah. All right. Taking it one day at a time, man. How about you? Oh, living the dream, man.

Tor's got some pretty good information for us. He's going to, he's been laying it down over there with the FTL. Is that the FTL project? Did I say that right, Tor? Fuck my life project. That's right. FML. Okay, okay. Well, why don't you lay it on us, man?

What's the big news over there? Oh, damn, you want all the news? I want whatever you can give us, man. Yeah, it's a lot of things have been happening. And it's very much like psychedelic related because I was trying to figure out how it's the best way to get people to see my side of how I see psychedelics. And that is basically the scientific way, how we see it, like person development, using it for more than just the buzz and all those things. So we were talking about, what if we get them early? This is going to sound so horrible, but I'm going to get some context.

We were thinking about creating a Roblox game, which is going to get people into the whole system and then creating a personal development journey through Roblox from when my son is 7 years old and he's kicking my ass in Roblox. We figured if we're using that technology with AI and everything that's coming out and really bridging the gap between nature and virtual and all that stuff, giving them some insights into spirituality,

and personal development early through a game, that would be cool. But then that's just the beginning. So we have that whole human development center called Valhalla, where we talked about that earlier, like just host these 3D virtual reality psychedelic therapy sessions, which is something that I think in the proper set and setting would be pretty freaking amazing. So while we're doing that, we're basically just taking it one step at a time. And I have, as I said to George earlier,

we have this community with 7,000 people in Norway, which is quite substantial, given the size of the country, who are all in that group because it's about liberty caps. And we're talking to lawyers, you know, journalists, politicians, doctors. We're talking to all the people that we can to change the law in Norway because it's so retarded,

in lack of a better word. But we're basically trying to raise awareness, increase, you know, the whole security around it, reducing harm, and just trying to, to make sure that people understand the potential of this, but also while doing that in a very new kind of way, using personal development and this knowledge,

I guess this knowledge-based industry in a different way than I've seen before. So a lot of things are happening. I just picked up streaming again, trying to get more social, get more out there. And it's so enjoyable because now as you get out there, people are starting to pay attention, you're talking about your dream, people are coming in with investments and all that stuff,

And you're like, should I do this? Should I not? Lots of things are happening. I think we're changing the world, literally. How would you? Yeah. I would agree. And I'm, I am, I'm not surprised, but I'm excited to hear you guys are 7,000 strong over there.

Because it doesn't take much, you know. And what I, what I really, one of the things I really admire about psychedelics is that while it's a personal journey, it's like, it's like wrestling kind of. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, if you wrestle for a living, like you go out and you face that. guy alone, but you're still on a team. You know what I mean? Everybody on your team has to win if you want to win the dual meet. But if you're wrestling in a tournament, it's you versus that other person. So it's an individual sport, but it's still a team. And I think that's kind of similar to psychedelics. Everyone goes on their personal journey. Everyone has their own things that they're working

on. But together, everyone working on their individual game is making the world a little bit better. And so, you know, I had this point I wanted to bring up to both of you guys and get your opinion. And I spoke to this girl yesterday who's a sound, she's an audio artist. So she works for, you know, movies, televisions, video games. And she's the one that gets the sound just right. You know, and it's the pitch, it's the gain, it's the volume. It's all these things of setting up sound. And I was thinking to myself, I know that in clinical trials, whether it's ketamine,

whether it's LSD, or whether it's anything that the pharmaceutical or big companies are working on, They use set and setting, and I know they have playlists, but I'm thinking, wouldn't it be an amazing thing to introduce sound into those clinical trials? Because I think you could use sound as an anchoring. Like, you know, people that have anxiety are going or PTSD are using psilocybin or psychedelics to get over that anxiety. But sometimes we all know that afterglow falls off after a month or something like that. But if you have a sound embedded in your mind while you're deep in that trip, then you could bring that sound back up as an.

anchor and it could pull you back from the ledge if you're if you had that anxiety what what do you think thor is that something that sounds plausible i think it sounds plausible it's basically like the pavlov's dogs right there you go like is yeah just conditioning your brain to to to react in those situations i i'm trying to see like picturing myself in a trip depending on the the degree of depth i guess but it's a good point yeah would you be in a place where you can remember that and then snap back from a better out that that's something i have to test out I think it's possible. What do you think, Paul?

Well, you know, I just wanted to touch on something that Tor was saying. Yeah. You know, we live, I'm in Hawaii, Tor, you know, United States of America. And so I'm just wondering, what are the psychedelic laws like in Norway? That's a great question. Ridiculous. That's the first biggest covering. It's basically Norway loves to follow the U.S.

So it's you guys are working, you guys are, it's illegal, you're working towards legalization, or it's been decriminalized but not legalized. Completely criminalized. Like it's, yeah, yeah. It's so taboo that you will be, you'll be looked at side by side by heroin junkies and everything. Like we don't know. People don't know enough about this in Norway. So that's kind of where I see myself playing an important role. the people, the justice department,

like we had people going around interviewing people. So this TV show was doing this raising awareness program for cannabis, I think. And it is in the same category, almost like. And when they asked the Justice, Justice Minutes, the Prime Minister of Justice, whatever he's called, he said that it's illegal.

That's why it's illegal. It's illegal. I was like, do you have any actual facts or base something to base this on. Well, yes, he's going to send you the sources afterwards. And then, you know, in post, they said what their sources were and there was one fucking, you know,

this tabloid magazine with a fucking article and one uncredited blog post. That's where he goes and finds his facts. So no medical research, no authority from any people who's actually been doing anything with this, and

he was just so arrogant. So stubborn in his ways that is just how it is. And that's how Norwegians are. We are very much like to stay in our limited mindset. If we're not peeling whatever we are trying to be convinced of,

right? If I can't make them feel a psychedelic drip, I'm pretty sure they will take those opinions to the grave. And that is a hard sell. That makes the job interesting. And so, like, what about other drugs? What about marijuana? What about alcohol? You guys have loose? alcohol, like lower age restrictions, 18, 15.

Marijuana, totally illegal as well. Yeah, marijuana totally illegal. Getting a little bit awareness around that, but alcohol is monopolized and just praised as the end-all-be-all drug for everyone because everyone needs to drink. It's basically said from the government, right? That is the one thing that is legal. So that's what everyone will just say, well, of course I drink.

I'm drunk every New Year's Eve. Every Christmas party, I'm drunk because that's just how we roll. So do you think that there's a push from the, I mean, how big is your alcohol industry? Do you think they have a influence on the criminalization of other substances as well? Like you think that, you know, a movement of alcohol industry to keep things illegal, to keep other drugs illegal or other substances illegal? I wouldn't be surprised, man, because here, like, I stopped drinking a few years ago. After I found psychedelics, I basically stopped drinking, right?

And then that's when I started to pay attention. And I think that the industries here, like the pharmaceutical industries and the alcohol industries are so huge that it wouldn't surprise me if there is some lobbying behind there to make sure that marijuana just stays where it is. Because I think they see a loss of profit, if not. But in Norway, we are smart. Like we keep people in the prisons through money. Like if we can keep a person just comfortable, you know, giving them free money every month, could be like $500. They won't put up that much of a fight because if they do, they will lose that, that money, right?

Right. And that's why, yeah. So right now, I think there's a lot more happening behind the scenes than what we see, but it's done in a very smart way. So it's hard to kind of get the truth out there because we look like the crazy people. We are the crazy people. Right. Well, that's cool then.

I mean, like 7,000 people on the community for mostly Norwegians, right? That's substantial. It is if people actually saw what we're trying to talk about. Like, okay, just to give you a context. I mean, you know, considering all the circumstances, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But most people are, like, afraid to be associated. So they won't comment, they won't like, they won't speak up about their use.

They won't do anything that could kind of put them in a negative light in terms of society. And that is a problem, right? Because you see that, given that it is a group about, specifically about liberty caps, and given that many people who does psychedelics have this more unifying feeling of people around them, they won't judge a Muslim just because it's Muslim, mostly, right? Because we see beyond that, we see that just because he follows Islam doesn't mean he's a terrorist, more or less, just to put it on the point. But yesterday, we had one of those articles, those posts.

a Muslim posted a post and we had to remove it after 24 hours because people were like, isn't this about drugs? We can't have religion in here, right? And that kind of paints a picture. Like even though 7,000 people is substantial, many are not waking. And so what has been the historical cultural response to mushrooms in Norway?

I mean, is there anything dating back to, you know, to, you know, the earliest of Norwegians using these substances. Is there any, is there any, you know, anything about, you know, a history there of using these things, or is this relatively new? And also, I guess I'd have another question. I'm just trying to figure, you know, kind of get an idea of facing over there. But, you know, like, you know, we had this, like, cultural revolution that was pretty

big in the late 60s and the mid-70s. And I think that cultural revolution kind of went around the world. And so, you know, just kind of get an understanding of Norway. you know, history with psychedelics. And then during our cultural revolution, if, like, your parents or grandparents or whoever were, you know, you know, in their younger, you know, 20s, teens, 20s, 30s back then,

if they had any experience with psychedelics. Yeah, some of them, not all of them. Because, as I said, Norway loves to just follow the U.S. If anything happens over there, you can bet your ass that within a year, a few years, people will do the here as well. Like the government will follow it. People will follow it.

So we had a hippie revolution here as well, if we want to say it like that. But the people that went into that revolution basically went underground afterwards. So now they are hermits. They are hermits and they live alone because who wouldn't. And now they're getting to that point

where they're basically dying out. And this new revolution is kind of coming out from the underground. So I don't know. Cultural heritage, I think that also the Vikings used Amanita Muscaria quite a lot. And also I wouldn't put it under a rock that they used Liberty Caps as well because they were crazy. So I think that our society is very much based on this substance, but most people just seem to ignore it or don't want to entertain the thought.

We had those revolutions, just not as much as you had in the U.S. I think that it's right for disruption in that. The 7,000 people that are in that group, they seem to me to be people that may not be super fond of authority. And when you look at the revolutions or you look at the movements in any sort of society that abides by authority, there's always a subgroup that wants to show, I don't like being told what to do.

And I think you can harness that. You know, maybe there's something, maybe there's a movement we could start with your group. Like maybe it's wearing a red wristband or maybe it is wearing a symbol that that's cool that the people and authority don't know what it means. I think that has always been a way for people to show their disdain for authority while standing up for what they believe in. And it's about, you know, whether it's the red, a red and white wristband like an amnabre or, you know, like the LC. you can use the LC as like the initials of liberty cap you can start putting out shirts or start putting out you know maybe maybe we could on this podcast do some giveaways to your people then they could you know just something or flyer stuff out but you start putting up that little

flyer that sticker in people's windows and people know oh that guy's part of the tribe and i think it kind of grows on itself like that but i've seen movements build that way and it's always built around something people are passionate about and sometimes the best movements are based on things that are deemed illegal by the authority figures. And clearly, you could make the case that at least in the United States, it was stated that the reason they kept psychedelics as a Schedule 1, and some of them still are, is that they were afraid of people beginning to think for themselves. And if you look at the psychedelic renaissance we're in now, you can see people waking up to their own power. You can see people deciding their own ideas,

blazing their own path. And maybe that's something scary that's for the people over there. So something to think about. We're actually doing it. Nice. Yeah, a little bit more context. Everything that we do is basically

in the umbrella of the legacy forge, which is under the FML project, but the legacy forge is meant to basically teach people about their own power. Like just through personal development, but also with plant medicine as a tool to reach those new levels. And as we have, I think we mentioned it before.

But I think that, Once the person reach financial liberty, not like I now have millions, but if you're able to create money using the tools that we have today, if you're able to package your knowledge and sell it to another person and you have money to be, you know, you have everything taken care of, you don't have to fear the government taking away your support, right? You don't have to fear your boss giving you, you just firing you if you do anything that is out of bounds. you have much more freedom in doing whatever you want and saying whatever you want because the money is not going to be taken away. So the legacy forge is there to teach people these skills, to teach them about personal development, spirituality if they will, plant medicine, and most of all, almost, just to get that self-secure, that self-confidence that they can actually make money by helping another human being. because as we all know, that is not something that is being taught in school. Like we learn all this unnecessary shit, but we don't learn how to value our own experience

and to help another person with that. It's insane. I've seen that mentality as well, because if you try to sell anything to a Norwegian, I tried to sell a $10 thing, and I got called a cult leader. Yeah, literally. It was insane. In America, we call that Fuck You Money. Yeah, exactly.

You need fuck you money. But you know, what's interesting is that, you know, like looking... Am I correct in saying that Norwegian is history is Viking history? Yeah, some of it. Like, we are not...

Most of us are pacified Vikings. I don't know. Yeah, a lot of them are like... Yeah. I mean, I know, like, just from, you know, what history has taught us in different movements around the world when it comes to, you know, either practices,

language, substances, dances, any, anything that's cultural that's been suppressed over time. You know, usually it's been like, you know, young people that have gone back into their own cultural history and then like, look, our ancestors used to use mushrooms or peyote or marijuana or any of these other different things or certain types of dances or dress or whatever it was. And even in those societies where in modern times, they're illegal, it's this reconnection with culture, historical culture, you know, that is often back like the pathway to change, you know, just getting enough people, you know, if there was such a history of using, you know, mushrooms or whatever psychedelics, I know, I know that Vikings drink mead, which can be of a hallucinogen, right? Like if you let it go long enough, it has a, you know, euphorbit, you know, euphoria properties, you know, about it that aren't present in most other alcohols. Yeah. And so, you know, it's those types of connections, I think, that, you know, help, that I've always helped cultures move past these roadblocks of taboo.

That's a really good point. Because, like, the book that made me see things very much differently, this, like the, um, Hidden Key, the secret religion with no name by Brian Melrose. And he's talking about Ergot, right? Just mold growing on bread. And given the technology back in the day, I have

no, no questions that the mead might have been psychedelic at times, that they knew about Liberty Caps because, I mean, at some point, some person in this country must have ate the fucking mushroom. And then, you know, yeah, and then spiking these things

with things like Ergot. Maybe they to learn how to cultivate it because 2,000 years ago, they clearly did and the Viking age is a thousand years younger. So absolutely. But here and now, when you say that, let's say that you say that you're proud, God forbid, that you're proud of your heritage or lineage, right? Now is like, oh, you're such toxic masculinity kind of guy. We have that kind of mentality going on Because it seems like Norway is too modern for its good, for its own good. Yeah, well, I mean, it can't be all about, you know, toxic masculinity. I mean, there's, you know, I mean, thinking, you know, culture was, you know,

what I know about it, which is very limited, was much more than just that. Exactly. I mean, these are steeply ceremonial, religious, you know, people who just not only believed in, in, you know, like multiple, like multiple entities, multiple deities, you know. Different parts of nature. Different parts of nature. And so to have that, you know, to have that type of history, you know, there's, they paid homage to many different things.

Just, you know, toxic masculinity. But you know what? Because of like Hollywood and, you know, and those, you know, those, you know, Specific aspects of Viking culture, history, are been told in such a way that a lot of people are now associating that culture with toxic masculinity, with war mongering, with raping and pillaging, with, and all the rest of those things, right?

And it's like, there's nothing, it's not, there's nothing unmasculent about embracing all of the, you know, the softer sides of Viking history as well. Hawaiians got caught up in the same situation that things have. I can imagine, yeah, because there were warriors on Hawaii, right? Still are, to some degree. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, very much of warrior culture. Mm-hmm. And, but embracing softer stuff like hula, you know. Yeah. Like, you know, like rhythmic drumming and, you know, and different things through it Hawaiian told their story, but, you know, but people get associated. And it's not just Hawaiians, it's, it's, it's most of Polynesia, right?

Yeah. Where it's this warrior, you know, haku, you know, you know, tribal warfare mentality, that, you know, is also plaguing, you know, not just, like I said, not just Hawaiian, but Polynesian culture as a whole. And so what do we do? We got to get back, you know what I mean?

we got to, you know, that, I mean, we, that it is there, right? Those things are real. And that is a, you know, a rich part of, of Hawaiian culture history as well. But also to promote the other things that, you know, within the that most people don't see. Yeah, I agree 100%. Like the whole, I would say that if you don't, you're not a really good partner, if you don't have feminine size to really resonate with your feminine partner, if that makes sense.

And if you are in any kind of relationship, you need to have the balance. You need to know how to feel, basically, you know, acknowledge your freaking emotions. And I think that in that case, when you see the Vikings, you know, the historical aspect of it, they were really into grooming,

really clean people, like making tools to make themselves look good, like earwax out of the, making them look good. And you wouldn't do that just to die young and just make it pretty coarse. I think that you did that because there was a mutual respect there. Like there was this thing that people seemed to have forgotten.

And that's, it's sad. But I think, yes, you're right. We need to bring awareness that it doesn't really, it doesn't vibe. Like, Vikings is a show. It's made for Hollywood. Yeah. And so, like, you know, all of those

old ancient cultural. So I guess my point to the whole thing is, it's like what I was saying before, is it's really hard to argue against one's own culture, you know, if it's root in historical fact, you know? Yeah, yeah. And so you'd be like, look,

our ancestors participated in ceremony or whatever it was, and we used these medicines, right? Exactly. To give us insight to, you know, to help us understand one another for protection of our community, whatever it may be, right? And then it forces people to like really look at it in a different light, you know, and really kind of look at themselves and how they view things, right?

And then even more important is that if you can tie that to like some sort of opposition culture, like the reason why we no longer do these certain practices is just because this other opposition culture, then you could really start to bring Norwegians together and support. And whether or not they actually want to participate in the use of these substances or not, you know what I mean? They will support it. Right? Because they look at young people and especially older people, they're going to be like, look, we have to, at some point, every person, people reach a certain age where they have to start looking towards the younger people, you know, to kind of lead to step, to step up and to take more of a, you know, a prominent role in society. And this could be one of those things, you know.

I could not agree more. I think that, you know, when we met George, we were about to go into one of these ceremonies. That turned into what you're saying, Paul. Like, it turned into way more than a psychedelic trip. It was a ceremony where we basically honored where we came from. And then it dawned on me afterwards. Like, in Norway, we are very strong on religion, ironically enough, because we had a Viking dude that just went off and killed off the entire cultural, spiritual beliefs,

killed off the old gods by Christianizing, making the entire Norway Christian, right? And because of that, Norway is really freaking strong in religions. We have literally a person who started a religion called the Flying Spaghetti Monster, not shitting you. And the rules are simple. You can start a religion in Norway. If you're not listed with another church,

if you have a creed, and I believe that the whole unified cosmological, cosmocentric worldview, and just what you see on a psychedelic trip is very easily translated into something that could be a creed for a religion. And then just going back and using this as an umbrella for the Osatru, like the Viking belief and say this is what they use for sacraments. This is literally it, and you can just check it.

I've been seriously contemplating to just start a religion. Because in Norway, again, first of all, you need 50 people. You need 50 people to sign up to either like to register. officially as a religion and then if you get a thousand people you start getting freaking support from the government which is a hundred bucks per person per year and if you have seven thousand it's actually money in the bank just by being a freaking religion which is crazy that is that is pretty crazy I was thinking it's funny you mentioned the whole church thing a psychedelic church because like I

as you were mentioned earlier like we have the whole drawing the cell Simon in Jamaica and it being legal there, and Jamaica is, like, huge on religion. I think there's more bars and church per capita than anywhere in the world in Jamaica. And I was thinking to, like, looking into, like, possibly starting a psychedelic church, too, with suicide and being legal. It's kind of something I was looking into, too. But Norway seems like it would be pretty risky. Yeah, yeah, exactly, because we have politicians right now who did it for the drugs.

They literally did it to get high. And that just infuriates me because they went on a show and they took eight grams of liberty caps on live TV in a barren apartment with a fricking host that tried to scare the crap out of him with a mask. So of course, that did not come off like a good thing

for the movement. But just the fact that he was fighting for this and just because we have this religious support basically and because it was reacted to, like he was fined and he was threatened with jail and all that stuff. So now we actually have a legal battle going on in Norway

because if religion is so prioritized, then that should be legal. Maybe not as we're going to use MDMA, LSD, DMT, and all those things as sacraments. But if you use one, Liberty Caps, Norwegian's national freaking psychological. I see it as logical. Are there strains of silver?

I'm another indigenous to Norway that grow there. Yeah, we have Liberty Cats. Yeah, well then that makes sense like you guys have if you have a church that's based around that because it's right. It's regional and has to deal with you and everything. And there's churches

already in Denver. Denver has psychedelic churches. I need to funnel with them. That's one in Arizona. What? You have several psychedelic churches in the U.S.? There you go. Yeah, probably. I would imagine there's probably. Yeah. there probably, yeah, a lot more than one. A Paiote Way Church of Arizona.

I recently talked to a guy who they started their, so they found a way to get mushroom. It's called the Church of Silumathoxin. And sylomothoxin is the, it's a molecule almost exactly similar to the toad venom, which I think is Bufitaine or something like that. but they feed the buffo to the mushroom, and then the mushroom produces the silumothoxin,

which is like a combination of the two. And so they're able to use that as their sacrament. They patent it, and they work primarily with veterans, and they were able to get all their paperwork done because it comes down to semantics, basically, like a sort of language. Like, this is the sacrament we use. it's our particular

you know it's our patentable thing that we have figured out a way to use it's not it's not illegal on any books anywhere because it's a new substance that we created and therefore it's not on the books anywhere so you can't say it's this psychedelic that's bad you know I could put you in contact with those guys and you could talk to them about the way in which

they set stuff up I don't think that they're ready to start sharing their sylomothoxin recipe with anybody But, you know, there's Anthony and his friend in Jamaica, they have different strains that they're doing. If the problem with setting up a church in Norway was finding a specific type of psychedelic, I think Anthony and those guys could probably help you with that. Yeah, I guess it depends on what you're looking for. Like all everything that we grow and produce, we have like bread and we bred like we bred like over 100 different varieties or so. Just a whole bunch of different oyster mushroom And that penis and a bunch of different ones that be essentially mutated

To create high levels of psilocybin and psilocybin in them and some of them are some of them are have like some of them have less psilocybin but higher levels of psilocybin So it's kind of more of the onset and the psychoactive effect is quicker than normally. So I'm not sure exactly what What you'd want but I would imagine that you probably want something that's relative low, they're not very strong. No, no, extremely strong. Oh, you went extremely strong. Liberty caps, as far as my knowledge, and I've studied this, are on the third most

broken in the world. They have a lot of psilocybin, but a lot less silicin. But they heard a lot of... Do you know what the overalls tryptamine? Like, do you have any idea of, like, the percentage of the triptamine content, like, the overall, or have you had any tested? I haven't had any tested, but...

Famix wrote about them in magical mushrooms of the world, I think. Yeah. Okay. He has this graph and it says you have the Assyrensis on top and then bow something on the second and then similanceyada on the third. But it is low, it's high on psilocybin, low on silicine, but it's also high on bowel cysteine. I think that is a name, but it's weird. And we are still trying to figure out, is that what is making it so potent?

because it's tiny, but it kicks like a meal. Anthony, could you, if you had like a sample of that particular strain, could you, could you guys find out? Could you, could you, uh, you could test it? You could test it. You could test it and get the triptamine content. So we know, like, how much is it, how much you would, want the triptamine content, they'll give us essentially,

just how much the active compounds in there. So the psilocybin and the psilocyne and it'll give us a percentage. of each one and then overall together is a full tripping content so just of the active well the active ingredients and mushrooms you could have like a you know it's all right i wouldn't i wouldn't go around looking for something that you know isn't unregistered or people don't know about to try to circumvent law i just think you just go through the wall man just you know what i mean yeah i agree And I also think, like, it's going to be hard doing what you want to do in Norway, like, to your point before.

There's all these barriers of entry, and I think, like, pharmaceutical companies, the alcohol companies, is a tobacco company. This is, like, psychedelics are disruptive for all of them, right? So they have a billion of dollars that they're playing with, and they're going to be lobbying for you not to be doing that. Yeah, exactly. we are seeing some rise in private sitters. Like if you are a sitter and you have it clearly specified on your website that you do not provide the drugs. You're literally just there with other people doing the drugs who are nameless.

And then those people supply themselves, then you're technically not breaking the law, but it's still a very gray zone. So I have a lot of confidence that if we continue, if we get people out there with their stories, emotional stories and how they got from suicide to actually creating a life that they love and more people are kind of joining that that message then that is the most obvious thing to me that will actually provide change because then you can't deny the people if you have a whole

bunch of people coming up and saying that what the fuck are you doing like this is the science and this is the effect I should be dead come out come at me right because we're not breaking the law that's a that's a beauty of this like when you've gone through one experience you don't really need to take mushrooms. Like I take very rarely I do ceremonies because I don't need it, because I had the personal development on side of that to really get me the insights that I need. So if people just saw that is not a drug, it's a medicine,

and you don't want to do it all the time, because if you do it, you're crazy. And all these things. I can't imagine going on a trip and just do it recreationally every single day. I couldn't even fuck that. George? I'm sorry?

I said, how is that, George? I just, I went through a phase like a month ago where I did it every single day for a month. How much? Well, I would just do like a, like somewhere between a half gram and a gram. Oh, that makes kubenses? Yeah, yeah. So basically a microdose, yeah. Yeah, I would say a little bit, a little bit more.

A little bit more. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gram is, if you do a full gram, like lights are on, you know what I? I mean, like the colors are different. You're thinking different. But it's not enough to change the way you drive a car.

It's not going to change. In my opinion, I don't think you're putting yourself in danger or anything like that. But it does fundamentally shift the way you see the world. And what I've here, there's two couple things I've learned on it. One, I began thinking that the idea of tolerance was bullshit because I took it and I'm like, you know what? I still feel it. And I thought that maybe day two, day three.

would be a little bit less. Felt about the same to me. Day 4, 5, and 6, maybe a little bit less. But the fact that I could still feel a gram on day 7 and on day 12, it made me rethink a lot of the literature that's out there about tolerance. And, you know, I don't thoroughly understand the way, the amount of, you know, the amount of neurotransmitters that are attaching to the 5H2A. I don't, obviously I can't measure that unless it's subjective.

But the fact that I could understand it and feel it is, you could argue it's subjective. But I, you know, I felt it. And I could see the world differently. And I continued to have maybe there's some confirmation, confirmation bias in there. But the fact that I could do it for 30 days. And then on two of the weekends, I took like, you know, maybe seven gram doses on two of the weekends. And I liked it. It was, you know, the problem with it is you become a lot more different than

everybody around you. And, you know, I found myself like, not irritated by silly things, but just beginning to get a little bit more weirder than I already am. And that was kind of a problem. You know what I mean? Yeah. You basically took in other people's energy more easily, right? Yeah.

I think that, and I'll tell you another thought that I have. And you guys can tell me if this is crazy because after that experiment in my journal, I wrote down some different ideas that I was having. and I think you see more when you're on mushrooms. And I think that's because your pupils are dilated. I think the same is true with LSD, but I haven't done LSD in a long time. And so this is just pure speculation, you know, mushroom George talking. But I think when your pupils are dilated, you know, like when you're in a trip and everything's breathing, right?

Like, you know, it's kind of wavy and breathing like that. I think that that comes from the default mode network being shut off and you're seeing things the way they are. You're seeing things moving. You know, if we start looking into the world of, you know, we start looking into the world of how things work. They say that there's, it's just molecules and waves moving. And when you're tripping your balls off, everything's moving. Now, I wasn't tripping my balls off every day. But, you know, I think more light is getting into your eyes.

Maybe that's why things are moving. But I think you see more when your pupils are dilated. It gives you a headache. It causes you to like, you know, you get like this almost like a hangover headache because I think all the light is coming in and your your, your cones and rods like, Jesus Christ, there's too much fucking light in here. But I think you're getting to see more. And I think that that is the idea of intuition.

And when I speak of intuition, we all know like, oh, I think something's going to happen. And it's not so much extra sensory perception in that you're seeing more. And you start thinking about the lexicon of the language, like, hey, you can see the light. Yeah, what happens when you see more light? Well, you can see more things around you. What happens when you're taking in more information? You're getting more download to your senses. You're seeing a bigger picture.

And so I think by being on mushrooms for a long period of time, and I think it's specifically having your pupils dilated bigger, longer, I think you're taking in more information. And I think you're seeing more of the world around you, whether that's, you know, slight ticks of people's faces or, it's just more. It's more body language. It's more of the planet around you. But it's more. And so you have more to process.

And so you have more knowledge out there. And that makes you, that could, you know, make you be somewhat of someone that is known as seeing more. Does that kind of make sense? What do you guys think? Is that total bullshit or what do you guys think about that? I'm, I think, I think, I'm, I think. Your shutters open. Yeah.

Right? The things are printing longer. Yeah. I think that's what's happening. You understand them better. You see them with more detail. What normally your shutter would only see for a flash. Now it's seen for like two seconds.

And you're like, oh shit, I see it. You know? Yeah, which is why I'd like to see trails and you know what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. And that leads to tell tales.

Like, you know, when people play poker and you can like, they have tails because they have their fucking eye twitches one time. Like, if your eye, if your shutters open longer, you're getting more information to process in there. And like, it comes with a pretty steady headache,

but, you know, is that new neural pathways being built? Is that more processing power or? Where is the headache? Frontal lobe, I think, right up in here.

I think in the, okay. So the third eye if we're going into like spirituality. I think you could say that. I would say more the prefrontal cortex. Yeah. I think I,

dude, this, it blew with my mind, because, yeah, I talked to you about this before the stream. This might be a kind of lengthy explanation. Yeah. If that's okay. Yeah.

I got into human design and anyone here has, have you checked out human design? Jason is our human design guy. Yeah, exactly. He got me into it. Like, now I'm fucking obsessed. So he read me and I was like, whoa, that is insane. Like that is not supposed to be possible. What the fuck?

Right. So I started to really delve into it. And the more I did, the more clarity I found in myself. I'm a projector. I'm a pretty, like 20% of the world seems to be projectors according to human design. And it's very much about quantum physics, if you want to say it like that, because it goes out to the position of the universe at the time of your day or your birthday and how that impacted everything in you.

Like that is, for some people hearing that is like, fucking bullshit. Here's the thing, though. If you go into quantum physics and energies and frequencies and vibrations and all those things that Tesla talked about, like if you understand those, If you have those, you understand the universe, right? I think that the shutter, the eyes being more open, the longer shutter speed, it sounds amazing. I think there's actually more than that because you feel that fifth sense. We're trying to communicate that fifth sense.

We call it SLS. We talked about that a little earlier before. Yeah. And it's more the energetic connection, that intuitive thing because you're not just thinking with your meat vessel. You're thinking with your energetic self, which is like the whole, if we, if we're, We are not a soul, but we're just fragments of one huge soul. And when we are meditating, when we're taking psychedelics, when we're going online, basically, we're communicating with more of that one collective consciousness, right?

So I think that if you have gone and done your deep work, then you living in flow is way more achievable because you don't have all that shit that is going to cause frequency when you're doing certain things. If you're thinking a certain thought, you're not going to go into a negative spiral because you've worked through that shit. or you know how to get back up, right? So you're going to be way more on that same frequency and keeping that and then just keep on adding to that. If there's one thing that I've seen, is that the more I know, all of a sudden I break a barrier

that is almost fucking physically measurable where I feel like, whoop that, that's the world, it just got bigger. Or I just got more limitless. Who knows, right? And then if you really start to just think about those energies, like if I'm talking to you, I don't think I'm seeing you. I'm reading your energy when we're, talking and I can edit myself

real time and I think that is because of that state that we go into on psychedelics but we can also do it on meditation through breathwork. Now there's a fucking device through light therapy which blows my mind because it's patented. Have you heard of it?

I have heard of it. Yeah and that if you can target specific energy like energy brain waves amy, lambda and gamma and alpha and all those things. and do that without the psychedelics, then it is technically light or your brain doing the work.

Right? It's basically it's already in you. It's innate in you. And when you get those psychedelics and you go online and you see more, I also think that you feel way more because you're now connected to everything around. Right? Make sense? Yeah, totally makes sense.

I, you know, when I was just talking to someone about frequencies the other day, and, you know, the same way, I make noises with my face. It's just sending waves. Somehow I'm sending waves via light speed to you in another country, but you can decipher those wavelengths. And the colors are wavelengths. Everything is wavelengths.

And so, yeah, I think that there's something to be said about it. And, you know, I'm a big fan of language. And I think that the language we use to communicate is, yeah, Anthony's here, face to face, man, nice. Nice. And so, yeah, I think that, you know, when we look at it, like frequency in waves and we look at language, like there's a lot of things you can find in historical text or scriptures. Like, they're always talking about the light in scriptures.

Like, you go into the light or a light is around someone's head, the illuminated ones, the illuminate. Like, there's all this talk about being illuminated. And that's what I was thinking about as well when I was, yeah, if your pupils are open, you're getting more light. you're moving into the light, you're seeing the light. And on a weird sort of way, whenever they draw aliens, their eyes are always like total black. Like, you know what I mean? Like, their eyes are just always like that.

Like, maybe they're getting all, maybe the aliens are getting all the light. You know what I mean? But I think there's something to it. And I should write it out in an experiment form so other people could try to do it and repeat it and see what they thought, right? Absolutely.

It's funny you mentioned the alien thing. So I was listening to Joe Rogan's podcast. And he was talking about aliens. aliens too. And he was like, it's crazy, like how we always depict aliens with these huge heads and big eyes and skinny bodies. So it's like they don't really care about their physicality or anything anymore. Nobody cares to jack or being ripped. It's just how much you can capture with your eyes, what you can hear, and how big your brain is to use your brain power.

Right. And it's not even about anything else with that. It makes sense. Yeah. I think psychedelics are a catalyst for that. Yeah. I think so too. Like I, on some, yeah, go ahead.

What you got? No, no. I think on some level, you know, when you look back at the Renaissance or you look back at, you know, pick your religion. I'll just use Christianity for this particular example, but there's Moses in the burning bush. You know, a lot of people say that the bushes in the Middle East was like an occasion, which is rich in DMT. When you look back at mystics. or the prophets, they were talking to God. When Abraham was up on the mountaintop,

he couldn't even look God in the face. You know, and it doesn't take a whole lot of twisting ideas to see your own hardcore, it's like your own hardcore, your own hardcore psychics is talking to God. You know, people get weird when you say things like that. But if you heard, if the voice you heard tour during your 15 gram trip, that could be interpreted as God, the same way that Isaiah or Elijah talks to God.

So too does God talk to us. It's just that people get, you know, especially in the East and West, in the Western religions, if you go out and you tell people, oh, man, I talk to God, they'll lock you up. They have locked my friend up. Yeah. For that, right? Yeah.

If you live in the Eastern religions and you're like, hey, I talk to God, I found out I'm God. They'll be like, well, congratulations. You figured it out. Exactly. Yeah. Because he's literally saying he's God. And that's why he's locked up right now. Literally.

That's, was that one of the guys I was talking to when we first met? Yep. He seems like such an amazing guy. And it's, it's just that they don't understand him. It's too bad. There's no one there to understand. Like,

he didn't seem like he was a problem to himself or anybody around them. Right? What's wrong with being God? That's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Say that to people who don't see things. as we do because that's why the the Islam-oriented post became a problem with my community because they saw that as a religion and they had a stereotype connected to that and he said literally

like he found Islam through psychedelics and I have no issue believing that he's he said that he got also he's in a functional asylum as well so he was sharing about a catastrophe that he thought was going to come. And so he's just warning people from his, he was doing 20 grams a fucking day. 20 grams a day? Yeah, for many, many days. That is a lot of mushrooms.

That is a lot. It was like, no wonder, you didn't give your brain fucking time to rest. But there again, he was it was a religious oriented kind of thing. And now, as my friend says, he's God, and people are just like, you're fucking crazy. No, I just need cannabis and

strooms as my medicine. Right. I think that if he had more understanding of what we're talking about right here now. Yeah. You would see that, yeah, maybe you feel like God, but that is Christ's consciousness. You are God. But maybe not in the scripture way that you think because now everything is kind of following what he already knows. Yeah. If he knew more.

So that's the whole point. We just need to talk about these things to make people think differently just to see, maybe there is some truth of this because that doesn't seem too far off. I would have loved to read. I would have loved who heard what it was that he saw or if he had a journal like. I know. He's saying it all the time. He saw Jesus coming out of the sun with a backpack.

He handed him the backpack. Now he needed to go around helping people. He's a healer. That's crazy. Really? Beautiful. Yeah. But we see that.

We and a very select few people in a thousand, seven thousand people. Don't see this. As long as you're not going out and like shaking people and been like, hey, I got to give you this backpack. Exactly. As long as you're not pushing it on people, as long as it's just you. Yeah. The craziest thing we did was the day we met you. We went out in public to ice bathe and to stand there and just shout to get all those energies up and meditate.

We meditated in November with fucking after being ice bathing. And we sat there for 20 minutes being warm. And people are like, oh, you're crazy. But what is the secret? Yeah. You know, we have to, yeah, we have to shift the fucking perspective on all this. I get really passionate about this. So here's an idea.

I know that in the United States, they have Alcoholics Anonymous, and that was founded on somebody that used LSD as the therapy. They taught like a 10 or 12-step program, but I think initially the guy that founded Alcoholics Anonymous, he used LSD, and he had tremendous, a tremendous success rate. And it kind of went by the wayside because they didn't want, you know, some people said, oh, you're just replacing a drug with a drug. But he's like, no, use this once or twice, and you'll never drink again.

in if you don't want to or you'll have one drink. I'm wondering if you could translate some psychedelics. I think you would have the same sort of success rate. And that might be a way to edge in into Alcoholics Anonymous or something like that. I agree. Alcoholics Anonymous, we have some of them. They're state run. So it's like you're going to love this.

If you, my brother went through those programs and he got out, but he was not like, he got out because of like mind of community. that supported him and getting out. But the rules are, if you have one sip, you're out, you're done. Your spot is going to someone else. I was like, you're really helping someone. Shouldn't you give them at least a few chances just and be there and see them and support them and keep them accountable for their journey?

That seems more sensible, right? And then here the whole using psilocybin as a retreat, like as a treatment center. Yeah. is so far off what we can do right now because they don't see that if you just take a few, you will not want to do more drugs. Because one dude found drugs in the fucking prison yard

and he was locked up in isolation. How freaking ironic is that? If he got to just choose, if he got to eat two handfuls, I can fucking damn guarantee you that he will love every fucking guard in there. He would not be any trouble. He would eat your most tasteless food

and he would not come back in and he would definitely not be an addict if he had the right people around him. So that's why I want to go to prison right now. Like I have said it before. I am willing to go to prison because I think I have things to share now. I didn't have that for the first time. Maybe you could start a pilot program at a prison in Norway. I tried, but they said,

maybe you should remove that mushroom. And yes, I did that because my website was basically, this is now a part of my website. And if you get to my website, you're going to see that I love mushrooms. And I think that, yes, sure, I understand. could be taken the wrong way if you don't have the context. But that is a great idea. I'm going to, we have been talking about it,

and I just haven't pulled a gun because I'm doubting my own value, which is very freaking interesting. That's a beast that is interesting to tackle. That's actually, it's funny you said that, Greg, because that's actually for them, for mushrooms, that's actually who we're going to be targeting first.

It's in Jamaica. We're looking to target first prisoners, police, and the army, because they're like at high strength. I mean, there's people who I think benefit maybe most from it in the society. But I think versus in Norway where it's like people are just like people, well, it's an illegal one. And then in Jamaica, like I had mentioned before, it's like it has a negative condensation mushrooms. It's not really something that people, people ate per se.

And like I said before, the name, the name that they call it is they say Junju. And Junju pretty much transfers as mold. so you know like say your mom will be like don't eat that it has junju on it so junju is a mushroom it's mold like people don't need mold so it just has a negative condensation right now but um but yeah like you were saying the pilot program that we want to really start with a treatment treatment is a large large large large large doses large large not dose large large large large large large large large number of people doing a microdosing and running a microdosing study around the people that are in prison

the police and the military really that's who we're looking to target and see if we can get in with them because well I mean I think it's just like anywhere if you can get the military to do it just like with a lot of programs happening in the states

I think it starts with the military and once they do it then it kind of trickles down to the general public it seems like that's how everything starts like all the technology we have yeah that's genius and I think there's enough veterans groups out there that have at least in the united states that are beginning to you know pay for it like the the uh the the VA is is is passing laws that allow ketamine

therapy and I think they I don't know for a fact but I think that there are some particular areas that have allowed for mushroom use and there's a nut you can go on google scholar and look up the studies or you know what I know people that have written studies that I've interviewed and you can probably go on LinkedIn and find people that have that have that have use psilocybin for PTSD and that could be the foundation for your argument to start a pilot program in a prison even if it's illegal you can say look I realize what the rules are here but this is a lot of these people are here for life um here's a here is not a nor not a they don't go there's no lifers in norway well that's even better then I i think that you could show what I would

I would I would go in with a with an article or some studies that showed like here's someone who had a tremendous amount of PTSD, here's a person that wanted to commit suicide, here's where they are now. And you could probably have a stack like this thick of them. It would be very difficult for people to turn it down. You're like, look, this cost almost nothing. This particular substance can, it's already helped this many people in the United States where it's a schedule one drug. Like, you know, if you can go to them and you're a very charismatic person, right? I think that if you went there with your heart on your sleeve, And like, look, I want to help people.

I've been here. I want to get them out of here. And beyond that, I don't want them to ever come back here. And I can do it. And here's how I can do it. And if you don't believe I can do it, here's how it's already been done. Like, why don't we try to help these people? Yeah, the problem is, though, you know, generally, they're looking for credentialed people, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who have, like, so you may walk into a prison and be like, hey, I got this great idea. We should be doing this. And they may even say, yeah, this is a great. idea but you can't do it right so yeah because you don't have you don't you know you're not a psychologist you know you're not a chemical engineer for whatever reason you're not a doctor you know what I mean and so like you know maybe like connecting yourself with somebody you know who who you know has a degree and you know things the same way you think and and and you know and

starting there and then still just pushing that but What you can do is really push the whole cultural thing if that aspect of it is available. There's someone in your 7,000 followers that has those degrees. I guarantee it. There's someone in Norway, one of those 7,000 people that's a doctor, there's a psychologist. There you go, right? You've literally changed my life right now. I just want to say that to you right now.

Paul, George, if I was to ever have another kid, it would probably be Paul George. You name. You know my name is George Paul, my middle name? Did you know that, Paul? What? Paul George Paul. There's no Anthony in there, though. I guess it could be a George Paul Anthony.

That's kind of a nice. It has like a Greek name. It's kind of a Greek warrior feel to it. But seriously, though, like right now, this video is being streamed in the community. And I see that there's one person who actually deemed to show up live. See, this is what we're talking about. We have 7,000 people here, guys. If we can just start collecting those stories, do that.

Start. Torcipolot.com Go there. Hit me up with the stories because if we can produce emotionally fucking hitting stories we can literally change everything. We already have doctors. We already have psychologists. We have freaking I think my dad

has the Western Norway police chief on speed dial. So we have a lot of resources right fucking now where I can go and do exactly what you said. Bring the fucking paperwork. Tell the fucking story. What can you go wrong? Like they can say no.

Oh, shit. Fuck. Well, okay, we can just keep on doing. Yeah. Well, you sell your idea, right? You sell your idea, right? Yes. People who are in the places where they could actually put your ideas to work.

I'm a beekeeper. And I believe, you know, I raise queen bees. And I believe in the health of honeybees. But I don't have a degree in entomology. Exactly. But so I teamed up with a guy who has a couple of PhDs. And one of them is. in chemical engineering.

And he's also, you know, a professor at a university in Japan. And so that's my credibility, right? So we, we started, you know, coming up, you know, theorizing what's killing honeybees around the world and the arguments against the current types of honeybee research that are being conducted around the world. And like, how do we, how do we gain traction in this, you know, well, he's a long-time beekeeper in Japan, and I'm a longtime beekeeper here in America.

And so, you know, it's about, there's a collaboration to where, you know, he, you know, he's doing research. His research is getting shut down because of circumstances of how you have to keep bees in Japan in order to keep them alive and somewhat healthy. And, you know, connects with me where I'm not facing here on Maui. We don't face the same adversities that honeybees face in Japan. We come up with, you know, a series of research projects that counter the chemical companies, you know, the Dow DuPonts, Monsanto, Syngenta companies of the world bear. And, and start, you know, cranking out some research that, you know, basically taking their argument away. But I couldn't do it alone because I'm just a beekeeper, right? And so I don't know, like, all the methods of what makes.

scientific research, scientific research. I just, you know, I'm the mechanic on this end of it, right? I do the work. I keep the bees. You know, I collect the data. I do the work. And so, you know, it's, we, you know, we got to a point where it's like, hey, Paul, you got to fly to Japan because I'm getting ready to meet with the Japanese Minister of

Health. And I need you, we need to start going through some of this research that we've been doing over the last few years so that I'm prepared to. have a discussion with the guy who's kind of in charge of the whole thing. It was like, wow, like, you know, beekeeper on an island to, you know, dealing with somebody who has all those credentials and teaming up and be able to produce, you know, research projects where, you know, where people, you know, take notice. And he's in a position, you know, to meet with the upper echelons of Japanese government about what's happening with, not just farming and honeybees, but,

but human health in Japan. And so, like for you, like the same thing, right? Because you're the guy with the ideas. You're the guy, you're the boots on the ground. You're the organizer. You're the guy who's out there delivering the message. You're wrangling people together. And so to find people, like, you don't necessarily need to go in the prisons.

You need to find the people who can. The people who have that credibility, those credentials, you know, that can speak to the people who have to, you know, check off a whole series of boxes before they let you get near a prisoner. Dude. And then, you know, I'm kind of that way. But you're the orchestrator, man. You're the guy with the ideas.

And that's, you're the most important guy, right? It's just a matter of assembling your team together, you know, to, you know, to make all that happen. Whether it's, whether it's decriminalization or a step further legalization, right? Because if they just decriminalized in Norway, that's a win, right? Tor? Oh, yes. Yes, of course. Legalization is a whole different thing, right?

Just decriminalize it. Stop finding people and sending people to jail for using these purposes. And then you go to that. That's one aspect of what you do. That's one aspect of your, you know, of your project. And that is my network. Yeah, literally. You're networking.

And it's going to be an underground network, right? Because what I'm hearing is these things are taboo in Norway. Right? So, you know, it's going to be in the underground now. You're going to find the right people who professionally, you know, maybe putting themselves at risk. But if they feel the same way you feel, you know, they would understand the boundaries really well and be able to, you know, balance, you know, do that high wire act, you know, and make it, you know, make it like a, you know, a more accessible project for other people. And then there's also the aspect of what you're doing when you're out there. you know, in the community and you're working with people and you're talking, you know what you mean? It's kind of like you're, you know, it's like you're giving a sermon. So you're doing all these things, right? That's cool. And then, but then getting your team together and having a strategy and then executing on that strategy. It's going to take some time, but, you know, I mean, you should be able to do it, man. You got, like George says, you're charismatic, you know, people

grab. And you're huge. Holy shit. First of all, this is just, Jason, if you're watching this, Dude, this is literally saying what the chart said, right? Creepy. But second of all, it's exactly assembling the team. First of all, 7,000 people. Dude, there's a lawyer in there, and I know that you were there. You, doctor? Yeah, we have something here.

So, and my friend, one of my best friends is a bioengineer. It's like having the fucking thing right in front of you. And you're like, I just can't see. That's the thing. But hearing you. It's hard to see the forest from the trees, right? Yeah, right? There's a lot of forests there.

So, dude, thank you so much, both of you, because now literally this stream, just this stream, right now. It's in the group. So I, you're here, like, when it happened. This is pretty insane, right? I just have to reach out. I just have to go and remind the people about the conversation that we already have and say,

you want to hit the start button on this? Let's do it, because here's everything you need. Holy shit. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I think there's plenty of people. I think you can find a lot of people that are interested. And probably, you know what? Jason's in Colorado. I bet you he could connect you with some people that fought for the laws.

Like, you know, I think whatever laws they were facing there may make for good literature for you to have in your pocket when you're sitting down in a meeting or when you're sitting down with a team of people trying to figure out ways around it or, you know, pilot projects. or something like that. You know, there's a book called John Ronson, John Ronson wrote a book called The Psychopath Test. And in the 60s, when drugs were illegal, they did all kinds of LSD studies with prisoners. And not only is it a interesting read, but it's quite fantastic.

One of the stories in there is like, it was John Ronson went and interviewed one of the guys that was in prison. And they gave all these prisoners LSD. And this one guy tells us, a story about how, you know, he was like so amazed at first. Like he took, they took the drugs and then they, they tied the people together because they wanted, they were trying to figure out behavior and they wanted these violent criminals to be more, you know, in tune with themselves and not be angry. And the guy tells the story like, you know, so we take the LSD and like, I'm starting to feel

pretty good. And like, they tie us together. And like, I look at this giant guy next to me and I'm like, yeah, man, I'm becoming a brother with this guy. And then about, about an hour in, I realized I'm tied to a mass murderer. And I start freaking out. It's like I'll trip my balls off and I'm tied next to this guy. It's a pretty funny. It's a great book. It's called The Psychopathast.

But the point I brought it up for is that in that book, they talk about psychedelic studies they did in the 60s with different types of drugs like that. And they had some really awesome results. So I don't know if you want to. It's fun to read, but it might be worth checking out. Absolutely. That sounds like amazing. content to basically bring to the table. Yeah.

And I'm sure if you just did a cursory glance of studies of psychedelics or other stuff or you know what you could probably just the fact that we're talking. Just the fact that I'm here right now talking to you and Anthony and Paul. We're literal world shifters.

Let's not go and not acknowledge that because we're literally doing something that's going to shift things in a big fucking way. And just having those kind of friends, you know, it speaks for itself. You have these amazing resources that you don't really get anywhere else, like the stories, the research, people to talk to all these things.

I think now I'm getting it. They say the network is your net worth. Yeah. Amazing to think that, you know, a couple guys with a computer from Canada to Maui to Hawaii could affect drug policy in Norway. Can you imagine? How awesome is that? How awesome is that?

What time is it in Norway right now? It has to be like 3 a.m. Yeah, it's like... Or maybe not 3 a.m. but like 2. Yeah. 2.30. Dedication. I love this topic.

See, this is like... I'm picking up my son tomorrow from school. I was like, well, I have had one week without him. I felt kind of unproductive. I need to do something. I really want to be part of those psychedelic talks with the roundtable again. Yes. seems like a good idea. Let's just do that. And see,

that is the intuition. So what, that is the eyes? What, what are the laws in Norway? It's just completely illegal. Yeah. One gram illegal. Cannabis, same thing. Yeah. Dude, they will spend, not even like five grams or

three grams you're allowed on you. Yeah, well, actually, when I'm thinking about, yes, you can, they're not as hard on you if you have like up to a certain limit. I'm thinking maybe it's even 20 grams of something. But if you go above that, No, actually, when you start talking about it, they have been quite lenient these last few years.

I've just been too focused to notice. So we are actually doing something that is good then. Hey, Tor, what about the possession of mycelium or sports? You have to say that again, you broke up a little bit. What about the possession of mycelium or spores? Yeah, no, those are still, like, if you were caught. Spores are probably legal, no? No, illegal.

Like, they said they moved that into it. Yeah, yeah. Now it's like. Got them on your course. Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, it's not different. But if the, if people are seen here, you know, picking trumes in the season, there have been stories in the community where the cops have come and there's actually been dogs with them.

Like, that's just overkill. It's like spending the whole day trying to catch one tuned up fucking moped. Oh God, how is it there? Cops with dogs. You know, okay. So in another thing that is exactly the same, only different is that, you know, there's analogs. Like you get like four ACO DMT. Like that's what they use inside like the labs and stuff like that.

You know, they have these different analogs that basically break down to psilocybin or silicin. And, you know, that's what they, it's not, it's not technically illegal because it's not psilocybin. It's not a mushroom, but it's the exact same substance. And that's, that's, yeah, and that's legal. Like, you can get them from labs in Canada. Like, Canada's probably the best place to get that type of substance because the labs there are, you know, it's an awesome country. But, yeah, so like for ACODMT, for, you know, there's all these four hydroxies, whatever. But it's just an analog.

They just add like a hydrogen molecule to psilocybin. And when you take it, you burn off that molecule and then it turns right into that. You know, so if you had that, that you could have that substance and have it not be illegal. You know, the same way they have LSD versus like, you know, I forgot some of the analogs, but that's, that's another thing in the 60s that they did. We're like, oh, I don't have that. I have this. And it's not classified, therefore it's not illegal.

So, I mean, that might be worth checking out. I've done for ACODMP. It's pretty amazing. I think that's an American thing, George, because like, you know, around the world, you know, you could, even though you're giving people a substance that's legal, it's the way that they're behaving. And that substance, they actually have laws against, you know, they're like, you know, I don't know the word for it, but it's like, you know, being a menace or, you know, you're, you know what I mean, you're, you're different people, you know, properly type of laws, you know what I'm saying? And they, they fuck you up at that shit. Yeah, you know. It's like, yeah, you know, like a lot of that's happening. Everything's more lenient. Yeah, everything's more lenient than the U.S. versus everywhere else. And then like, and then also to, I did. I did. I Tor is that your name? To your point, I think once America, because America is like the world leader, I think most countries, every country, as far as your banks go, they all deal with

American currency. So they're all tied in with the U.S. They don't want to lose that relationship, so they kind of have to follow suit and do what big brother does. So I think once America legalizes weed, it'll be legal everywhere. Like it will fall. And then the same thing will happen with the psychedelics and pretty much everything else. I think they're just a world leader. Everybody has the largest reserves of U.S. current. You don't want to lose that ability to do business with the Giants.

So that's kind of, the U.S. has the world by the bolts right now. Kind of paradigm shift. Without the, like we spoke about before, I think it's hard to, it's hard for an industry to grow and mature without financial institutions behind it, right? I think even for you to get, you could have 7,000 people that are interested

in taking suicide in Norway, but if there was no support from a bank or something or anything to bank your money with or to work with or to grow this, to grow the experience and what you're doing, you're kind of just stuck in the mud. All about the money. Every time. Every single time. No, that's the bottom line.

everything has to do with money. It's all about the money. The reason why the drugs are illegal and stay that way is because of money and I think that's it. If people just saw that, that would make me trying to teach people how to earn money,

not that taboo, because people are actually frowning upon that here. Weird. Yeah. But hell yeah. Also, as you said, yes, talking about ACOD DMT, and there was one thing, one thing that I really wanted to stress.

First of all, as I said earlier in this podcast, I don't do fucking strums anymore. And when you come at the door, when you try to raid, when you try to do it right, like whatever here. Because we know that you're watching. We know that we have people in this group, and you're not just here for the knowledge, right? You're going to have

a hard time finding anything because I'm not that stupid. If I'm running a freaking group of this size, do you think that I would have the stiff at home with my kids? No, just saying. So, we could avoid a whole bunch of unnecessary just by you contacting me like a normal person and let's talk this out because you see I have freaking things

I have research network and fucking capacity to go out there and actually speak about this because you're not owning me I'm not being funded by the government and I don't have a job I create my own so there is see and also I'm not a fan of suicide I've said that so many times and it's creepy because I'm not saying for fun you know I'm just trying to get that really I'm a fan of yeah you know

Because in these times, you know what fuck shit happens. It's funny, you mentioned the suicide thing. You can get assisted suicide in Canada in 10 days, but it takes six months to get your medical license for suicide. I can take up to six months. But you can get your, you can get your, like somebody to assist the suicide in 10 days. Yeah. Wow.

If you're end-term, end-term patient, end-term illness, you can get assisted suicide, I believe it's 10 days. and for psilocybin to get your end-of-term patient prescription for psilocybin as a medical patient from the health Canada, the government, it can take up to six months. And that's if you get it. That is insane. It's like in Norway, if you jump from a bridge that is X high and there's a danger for you dying, you will get a fine for trying to kill yourself. What if you did it because of financial issues? It's so looking for ironic the entire system. that's what I'm saying about like, you know, having the, the substance that really isn't the substance and then going to a place like Norway and giving it to people and then they all trip out and then, you know what I mean?

It's like it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's higher than 30 feet. Now it's it's, it's, you're trying to kill yourself type of shit, you know? That wouldn't look good. It's all about how the neighbor looks here. We call it we always, you can see it in the freaking neighborhoods when one does something that is status wise, you know, it's. higher on the ladder than the other ones. And this is probably all over the world. You will see the other houses start morphing down the line, which is weird, right? If we can just acknowledge that we can be weird, like you don't have to care about what other people think so much.

Yesterday, I did a freaking, I call it a rag doll dive now because I've seen it so many times. I literally, I drove 15 hours around Norway, just to get a variation from the office. I drove all the way up, and there was like three feet, actually I have to convert in my head 12 feet of snow which is quite a lot right it's like three meters right

you can see like these huge fucking walls next to the road it was insane a lot of snow and it was cold it was like 22 below Celsius so we went up there yeah it's yeah right we went up there and

I just had this this spur of the moment kind of thing I stand there can you record this because I never had any people record this and I think it would be fun to rewatch after. You got my camera. He started record. And I just say, I just felt the snow with my face over there. So I'm trying to do the same thing here. I went up to the side of the

road and I just hands down with my back towards it and I just jumped, right? Hands down my body and it just face planted in the snow. It looked like a fucking Ace Ventura rag doll kind of value. It was like, just do that. Be a kid. Be weird.

Have fun. Because it actually feels good. And you want to do more of it. But not enough people are doing it so it's not catching on. We just need to be it's sorry. Yeah. I think I think a lot of people wear like a mask, you know? Like everybody has to

you have to wear a mask to certain people. You can't really be yourself. You can't really do this. You can't really do that. You know, so I think that's really what it is. It's just the pressures of society that we live in today, right? Like, perfect. Like I look at social media and you see everybody online and I feel

like everything people share online is just highlights of their life. It's like one long highlight reel. It's not not real things that people experience like the fact that you got your bills to pay at the end of the month or the fact that you know you maybe not in the best health or something like that. But you know, I don't know. People never share the reality or the realness of their lives. Yeah, it's a good point. People can maybe relate more to but I think if I was on a boat in Dubai, I would be I would be sharing snapped all day every day but if I was just got my thing like that I'm not going to share that on social media so I think that's a thing I think the people just people wear a mask I think that's

really what it is you know and it's not it's just it's just what I think the world's become more and more and it's unfortunate but I see it like when I look at the when I see the like the metaverse and this whole like web 3.0 and like where that's going it almost seems like soon we're just going to be like vegetables. We're just going to go sit in a chair, put some goggles on and headphones, and that's it. That's where we get our entertainment. That's where we get our pleasure. That's how we get our dopamines or everything. We just sit there. You know, I'm afraid that's what it might be in, I don't know, 50 years. I think even sooner. Dude, they have been, AI got dropped 20th of November. They figured out nuclear fusion in December. And

things are happening now at such a rate that is hard to keep up. And people don't, people see you as a fucking conspiracy theorist. If you say that AI will start to do things in games that makes it more pleasurable to be in there, to have virtual reality as your reality, and then, you know, just think about what's to happen.

Ready Player 2, Wally got successful for a reason. Hey, Tori, America has a bunch of conspiracy theorists. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We, that's Norway have a very weird way of looking at the world. We do have our

fair share of conspiracy theorists, but we always look to America for the real conspiracies. And today, conspiracies are literally just, you know, told you. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting to look at society. Like, I like the idea of a mask. I was reading this book called The Spectacle of Society.

And if you look at all the events that happened, this guy was talking about the degradation of being into having. and having into the illusion of having. And the examples he gives is like, you know, you used to have this lifestyle where you would, you know, before social media,

you would buy a house and you would have some cars. And then maybe it wasn't the best house and the best cars. So then you could rent a home and you could lease a car and they would be nicer and bigger, but you never really owned them. And now we're moving into this phase, like you really don't have anything like that. You have a lot of these different,

like influencers it'll like rent a plane for a day you know so you've gone from being to having from having to the illusion of having and it's kind of like what i'm saying about a mask right yeah yeah yeah and that's what i see in the metaverse it's like i have land i don't own a house in real life i pay all this high rent but i own land and house in the metaverse yeah and like you something that you can't touch it's not tangible it's nothing it's just it's almost like It's almost like if it doesn't happen online, it's not real anymore. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

And online is not real. Exactly. That's why I'm so passionate about, you know, the Legacy Forge and the Human Development Center because that's going to be very virtual reality. But it's going to be coming, it's on the ass end of teaching people from a young age, the difference, the balance between nature and virtual reality. Because now, dude, we have to do things that we didn't have to consider when I grew up. an iPad. My five-year-old

know about Netflix and Coca-Cola and all these other things saying that she got disconnected from her iPad. She's five years old for God's sakes. So if they catch on this early to technology with AI and a fucking rapid development of that thing, if people can't see

that right now we have a fucking responsibility to teach people that it is not only about the virtual. We also have this earth and nature and energies and frequencies and meditation. and consciousness and fucking liberty caps that we can tap into

to not be such a victim and consumption. Like, oh my God, I'm getting so passionate about these things. I had these, this thing was my face when I started the community of 7,000 people now, but I started it as this because I was a scared motherfucker for what they would say about me.

Proof of point. Case closed. What the fuck? Wow. Got to wear mask so you can talk about things you know, I don't know. The day I did it a live stream and I took off the mask online live stream

and just this is fucking me, you guys put me to jail. And they haven't put me to jail yet. But I'm saying, like, I'm talking to these people because they are awesome to talk to. We're not a fucking Norway would probably be like a global drug league, probably.

And I say that because I've already been said to be a drug kingpin. because I was catched and some of my friends did some stuff. And because I had done some horrible, I committed robberies, basically, to survive back when I was dark. And when that happened, of course, I was a bad motherfucker because I had done badder things than them.

So, of course, E is a drug kingpin. And I was literally portrayed as that for Norway in the biggest newspaper. But I know how quickly people can draw assumptions and just think that because people are talking this way, they have to be crazy or they have to be fucking conspiracy theorist. or they have to be in league with Russia or whatever it is today. You know what?

I wanted to, in one of our initial conversations, you had told me something that I, well, you told me a lot of things, but there's one thing I keep thinking about and you had told me like in dark times, you know, it's the same as being an incredibly enlightened times.

Like you, if you want to be dark, you have to work to be dark. You have to work hard to get better at it. The same way you have to work hard to be good at it. And I was just, it was, I don't know if you could touch on that again.

Like, it blows my mind because it makes so much sense. Like, regardless of what you choose to do, like, if you're choosing to be, like, the best criminal, like, you have to work hard because there's other criminals trying to be better than you. But if you want to be the best person that you can, but you still got to work hard. Can you compare and contrast those two mindsets for me? Yeah. I think that many people have talked about this before and very sensible as well. It's so easy to do the easy things.

It's hard to do the good things. So if you're doing something to change your mind, if you're changing your way of seeing the world and thinking and reacting to everything and your ego and all these things, fucking hard if you haven't seen that thing at work, right? Yeah. But it's so easy to go out there

and just slap a fucking shotgun in the face of a two-year-old in their crib because they have candy you want. That doesn't acquire much more than being a fucking sick person. If you want to do things, it's easier to be lazy. It's easier. And then when you're lazy, it's easier to see that, okay, shit, I need something. What can I do? And then if you start drink because you're lazy and you don't want to do anything, maybe you start hanging out with the wrong people. And then that just escalates. After a while, you're starting to having ideas because you are the sum of the five people you hang around with the most. And all of a sudden, one sees something that you have that they want, a PS3 in this case, right? And they want to take that. They want to have that for themselves. So let's just go in and rob a fucking electronic store.

sounds like a fucking nice, awesome idea. That escalated to having a, I'm talking about real experience. This is literally my story right now. That escalated to a fake call to the police department where we called in a fatality, which was, you know, the level above that trying to get into the store, level above being lazy, level above being a drunk, which escalated into fucking, setting fire to a fucking mall in a drunken accident. And then that pushed on other external factors, which is like, you are a criminal.

I don't like you because you burned down my store, which took quite a lot of going to. Like, there was a journey to get to that point, but unwillingly, not knowingly, because it was the easy way to do it. Then all of a sudden, people are starting to avoid you. You become a criminal. You identify as a criminal.

You start to do things that criminals do, and you see that you actually have to be smart. You have to think about marketing when you're going to sell weed or you're going to sell speed or whatever. And you have to bring a gun to the business meetings because those fuckers can't be trusted. and you have to look over your back

and you have to store your fucking product in places that people don't want to see you. All these different things requires even more laziness until you reach the point where you see that you have to work for it. You have to do certain things and for doing those things you have to go through certain fears. Like what if the cops take me? What if I am being arrested right now?

Which just escalates even more until you pistol whip your friend in the face because it's going to look realistic. All of these things is the exact same as doing something good because it just requires way more to be successful in life in a good, positive way, because you have to work on yourself, which is a scary fucking thing. You have to do things that you normally don't do, like trust yourself to have value to help someone to ask for the sale,

because if you don't have any support from elsewhere, you have to actually create whatever you are eating. You have to create the income that it's going to support your family. For that to happen, you have to value yourself in order to see what you can bring to the table. You have to do things that is incrementally harder and harder on harder until they become the status quo. So I guess seeing that specter, seeing that darkness and being there and knowing that I could easily have killed, I stopped myself 50% into the journey of killing someone because he ratted me out. I had acid in the truck. That's when I said, this is probably not a fucking good idea. Maybe I should rethink this whole situation and started to think differently and read and feed my mind with actual information instead of the fucking dress size of Kim Kardashian and how her ass ruined the internet.

Like, there's so many things to study today. This is radiating your nuts every day, and it has Einstein's brain in it. But people are not using it for that. You know, they have fucking scrolling issues. Like, yeah, exactly. Sorry to go in a rant again, but it is increasingly, like, it's the same thing. You're going to have to work to go dark. You've got to have to work to go light.

But you have to go work harder to go to the positive side. Because you have to actually be a good person. That requires work on yourself instead of taking it from others. See, that's the point. It requires work on yourself instead of taking it from the others because that's easy. Thank you for that. No, I think it's an incredible point because I, you know, when I look at, I'll tie this into education. I think when we look at education today, what we see is a lot of people that have read some books and have want to be teachers,

but they don't have the actual experience to teach the thing that they want other people to learn. And I think it's been a problem not only for higher education, but I think even in psychedelics, we have a, with big pharma kind of coming in, and clinical trials coming in, there's a lot of people that are involved who've never really had a psychedelic experience. And it seems problematic to me that people can heal other people that have never been through a situation before. And so I think you could go full circle. And if you wanted to work with the jails, the fact that you've been through these situations,

I think make you even more capable of helping the people that were in prison more than a professional of some sort, more than a caseworker, more than even a psychologist on some level, because you are a psychologist. You are someone who's been through the experience, who's found a path out, and knows how to show other people that pathway. So I think that as difficult as it is to tell that story, I think that that is a story that people listen to, not only listen to, but understand. Like that,

that is credibility on a level that most teachers don't have. I could not fucking agree with me more. I call them overweight, certified fitness coaches. Most people who are certified and just read the fucking book. They haven't done the thing. You have people teaching about finance about how to become a millionaire, but they're working on a salary? Where did you make that logical, right? It's, yeah.

I could not agree. A lot of a lot of the life coaches, too. Like, I see all these life coaches. It's the newest thing. I'm going to be a life coach. Like, what can you coach me about life? You're like, if you got to coach me about life if you're 100 years old. And then you can be a life coach, you know.

You live life. So you can help me about life. Exactly. you need life experience to be a life coach. People don't see that. You see that is the most fascinating thing I've seen in such a long time. Like how people can just see, this will make me money. How do I research my target audience?

Like, who should I target now that I'm a life coach at the age of 19? Wow. Such incredible stats. That's the world we live in. It's a fucking, it's a social media brand. It's Instagram. It's like whatever you can produce to love. look good and how it can word yourself, no matter if you're reading from a script, because I see

most of them does that, you read from a script just like, do you feel stuck in life? Do you want something more? These things that just trigger something, and those people are viewed as expert in our community. But I, see, I think that, I think this is going to resonate with a lot of people. You've gone through the shit. You have learned some stuff that most people thought was science fiction, but rather it was based on those sorts of things. People have gone through the shit to create a journey based on that.

And you think that you start to think that you don't have the value, that you have gone through it. But that just makes you a loser because you're now a criminal, right? You don't have the clout because you've been something that everyone deems as stupid. Now, it sounds weird, but that makes you doubt yourself to the point where you don't think that you can do anything. And I think that a lot of people are sitting with this. They went through the contrast of life, which I say is the fucking value.

That's where the goal is. But they went through the contrast. And sometimes they're still there because they haven't met their like-minded people. They haven't made sense of their thoughts. They still think they're not valued. And they will not share the value because of that. It's an evil circle, right? Yeah.

And, you know, you need a job. So when you go to the job, you're so tired and get home. You don't want to start reading. You don't want to start doing things that is going to require work. You just want to sleep or eat or masturbate or do something until you have to go to work the next morning. It doesn't really allow for any progress in how you see world, how you see your own self,

and how you can provide something for other people to actually get out of the prison, the invisible prison that were so many people are in. And Anthony, I love the fact that you said that people don't talk about the things that actually are a problem these days. Mental health, the education system, how creativity is being robbed by people, because that's just how schools work.

You know, all these things that just people don't talk about because it's taboo. So I'm truly grateful for us to have this conversation right now because I'm thinking it's going to help a lot of people. Yeah, I think I know that for me, and I'm curious what you guys feel. I think when I came to the conclusion that if you want your life to be better, you should try to make everyone around you better. You know, that kind of feeds into the idea that you are the same, of your five closest friends. Like once you start,

and I think psychedelics helps, it helped me see this. Psychedelics helped me to see that the things I see in other people, like if it's a good thing or a bad thing, I can only recognize what's in me. I can only recognize things about myself. So if I see something in Antib, if I see something in Tor,

or if I see something in Paul that I like, it's me recognizing something that I know. And I'm like, oh, they do this thing. That's pretty cool. But you're just reminding me of something either I do or I'm capable of doing it. And on the flip side of that, if I see someone that I'm like, I don't want to be like that person, why don't you want to be like that person?

Because that's something that you do that you don't like about yourself. And so when you can grasp those two things that the people that you interact with are but a shadow of you or are a mirror to you is probably a better way to look at it. And then you can say, okay, well, how do I make this person next to me better? What are these things I like about them? How can I get them to continue to do that better? I think when you start to figure that out and you start making people, around you better. You start making your environment better. And you start

feet, it's like that, it's that you've turned that negative feedback loop into a positive feedback loop. And you're getting this energy and you start getting momentum and you start rolling and rolling. Next thing you know, you're, you're talking to people from three different parts of the world at the same time. And you're vibe and you're, you're feeling good about yourself. And you're, so I think that those are, what you said is 100% accurate. And what do you think about the idea of the people you meet being a mirror? I love that. And that is why we created the legacy forge. Literally.

Let's the large forge is about that. That is a like-minded tribe of accountability partners who will ensure that you reach success because they have found success in their own hearts. Maybe not, like I say that I'm not a millionaire. I make millionaires, but I'm not a millionaire yet. Right? It's a fucking statement because people have it in them,

but they have to have someone else to see that. If they don't see that, they can't guide them through unearthing that magnificent spark that is within every single person in the world. You just need to see that they're good at that thing. So yes, I agree 100%. If you don't have mirrors, what are we? Like, we have to have people who can help us along. That's why mentorship is so huge in Asia.

That's why rights of passage were a thing before. But they stopped doing those because technology or whatever happened. I don't know. We're going to get that back through the tribe. legacy forge. Actually, to the tribe and legacy forge. Because it's so important. You know, legacy forgerers are people who take that pain, turn it into power.

Take that mess and turn into the message and then help and heal the fucking world. Burn the fucking boats. Yeah. Like, yes. Fuck yeah. But I have something for you. Yeah, burn the boats. I have a question for you because I have someone who

asked the question a while back. Sorry for not a nice. What age limit do you think that psychedelics should have if it got legal? I think that's a very very good one because, oh, nice, you have, you have two. I like that. That's something I'm going to see. That's something I'm going to start doing.

Yeah, can you put yours up? Can you put yours up? No, it's on YouTube. So I haven't, I can, but it's going to look weird. But actually, I think that an age limit on Cytocyan should be 25 years old, simply because of brain development and all that stuff and life experience. Because the trip will be dependent on where you are in life, what you think, your mindset, your paradigm, and basically how well along your brain is.

But that is my opinion. What do you think? Well, it's a great question. And I would reference a book by Aldous Huxley called The Island. And I think that kids could start a lot younger. I think that maybe at the age of like 12, you know, you would have like a first ceremony. And in my mind and in that book of like Aldous Huxley, they talk about children, you know, like maybe in the book, they tell the story about they go and they climb this rock. And after they climb this rock, they find themselves at like a monastery. And at the monastery, they take like their first psychedelic trip together with the other kids that were able to climb the rock.

And at that point in time, you know, it's a right of passage. We're like, okay, now you're no longer a child. Now you see what is possible. You've taken the medicine. And now you're on the path to become one of us. And I think it allows someone at that age the responsibility of understanding. Like, okay, now you get to mentor the five and seven year old because you've passed this test. And I think when you give kids responsibility like that, you weed out some of the angst and some of the pushback they would get because now they have a job to do.

And it's a job they want to do. They probably, and if you look at that in a cycle, the five-year-olds have a 12-year-old mentor. You could pair them up that way. And I, you know, that's, that's in a perfect society. But there's no reason why that couldn't be in a community. Exactly. Yeah. And to be honest, I don't, I don't see a problem with microdosing for kids as young as like five.

I mean, I'm not saying like that's something that I don't see that as being problematic. I don't think you want to give a huge dose, but, you know, I. CBD is a thing. TBD to children, like seizures and lots of stuff. Yeah, why not? It's kind of already been done. Like, I just, yeah, I agree. 100%. That sounds very much.

Yeah. Yeah. That would be my take. What do you think, Paul? I don't know. Sounds a little young to me. Yeah, but why? Because now, if we do like the sensible thing and really microdose to a point where they don't see anything and you know about the development of the brain and you can follow them along with the personal guidance and have a system that supports, you know, science, you don't really, you want to just give them right away.

but what do you think Paul um well i mean again they use the word guidance right for me in psychedelics i'm really not into like the whole you know coaching guidance you know mentor shaman type of you know authoritarian you know authoritative figure you know i'm i'm more of a personal journey type of person you know i was the same thing i was accepting i was accepted the same thing but here's what i saw what i tried because i was scared i was i did not want to share my way of doing it because i it was a very personal very intimate way of my life so i didn't want to share that with anyone because i thought that was going to fuck it up i would probably pick up on their energy or whatever but then i tried i invited four people yeah again that's when we met george

and then we just talked and we were there for each other everyone was doing their individual journey but everyone was there for each other. When one, and that happened, had a bad trip, another one stepped in because he saw what he needed, so he guided him back. And it was not like guiding. It was, you're doing your trip.

You're doing your journey. And whenever you need anything, you have a tribe around you. Everyone doing the same thing. Everyone having the same mindset. And that changed the whole, as you said, the authoritarian aspect of it, because it made things more like a tribe.

a community. Nice. I got to, I got to just stop for a minute. My wife is telling me it's time to start landing the plane, man. So, dude, I, I love talking to you guys. This has been an absolute blast.

And before we quit, though, I wanted to maybe go around the horn and let everybody tell the audience what they're up to where they can find you and what they're excited about. So let's start with you. Tor, where can people find you and what you got coming up? well we have the thing coming up which is like creating a brand new world so right now we're creating a new game we're creating the entrance basically so in a very short while you can go down to the legacy forge dot com where you can start the journey and it's completely free and once in the time we're going to create a webinar and it's happening right now so the legacy forge dot com

anthony did you want do you want to weigh in on the age of psychedelics before you before we tell people what you got coming up and where can be I definitely think the kids are too young. I think I'm in between 12 and 25, like you guys are saying. I think I'll say like, you know, like 16. What's the age of consent? If you're old enough to have sex, I think you can have some psychedelic. There you know. So 16, 18 years old, like, I think that's, like, right around the kind of right age.

It's where you're, it's, for me anyways, I know when I was, like, 18, like, that teenager, like, a lot of my favorite things that I did and, like, all those. things like really shaped me to who I am today like I still listen to music that I listened to when I was 16 when I was 18 I still enjoyed doing things that I did when I was 16 and 18 so I think like that 16 21 25 like those kind of age that age right there I think is a good age to that feels like me as well 12 12 might be a little too young I do like the I do like the mentorship though the like you know the five-year-old being mentored by eight-year-old and eight-year-old being mentored by a

12 year old. 12 year old and so on because for me, if I go and get mentored by a 60 year old, it was 30 years ago when he was 60 versus the 8 year old mentoring a fire over three years ago. He actually really remembers that. She knows it was like going through a growth spurt or like things like that. So I think that could be something that's interesting. I think, yeah, giving kids responsibilities earlier on and maybe some mentorship and that

kind of stuff and maybe getting them away from technology would be good. but that's a whole conversation to be had. I'm 100% on board because 25 was my normal thing, but you blew my mind, George. Yes, I agree with all of you, actually, but yes. So, Anthony, where can people find you and what do you got coming up? You can find me on LinkedIn, Anthony Bailey, or attheorgian.com, my cannabis companies, herbs.com, or herbsjam.com.

and what I got coming up, I've been working hard at the psilocybin thing here, breeding. We've been breeding. We've developed mycelium that we're able to, mycelium that produces psilocybin in seven days instead of the traditional eight-week cycle. And really me and my partner, Dr. Vangelis, who's actually in Jamaica and I'm unfortunately in Canada now. But we're working on commercializing our findings and really bringing them to market. And seeing what's next, I think we're not really, we're not shaman's or guiding people or anything.

I think our biggest thing is giving people clean, consistent product. Because right now we're kind of bridging the gap what I saw in psilocybin. It's just like with the cannabis when it first came out, you saw weed, smells good, look good, this is good bud, but you didn't know how much CBD was in, how much THC was in it. So that's kind of where we're at right now. We're just trying to supply people with product that you can legitimately dose yourself. you know the amount of turbanine content

triptamine, sorry, not turptamine chryptamine content in there. So you can, you know, really determine your microdose or your ego dose or your regular dose, whatever you're trying to get to. So that's what we've got going on. I like it. I love it.

Yeah, man. Paul, what about you, buddy? What's the good word? You know, just beekeeping and farming here on Maui. And catch me on the psychedelic rounds. table on Sundays. Nice. Nice. Gentlemen, it's an absolute blast. I'm totally thankful to have met and get to spend time with every one of you. This is going to be a big year for all of us. I got some big things on the horizon. I hope that you all choose to be part of them. And I look forward to

talking to each one of you more in depth as the year goes on. So thank you to everybody. Everybody who's listening and watching reach out to the guests here. They're all awesome people. They all have a lot of insight and knowledge and would probably love to talk to you. So reach out to them. And that's all we got for today. Ladies and gentlemen, so stoked you're here. Aloha.