TrueLife - Valerie Beltrán - The Seduction of Thought

Episode Date: January 10, 2025

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US🚨🚨Curious about the future of psychedelics? Imagine if Alan Watts started a secret society with Ram Dass and Hunter S. Thompson… now open the door. Use Promocode TRUELIFE for Get 25% off monthly or 30% off the annual plan For the first yearhttps://www.district216.com/🎙️🎙️Aloha and welcome to today’s conversation, where we are honored to share space with the remarkable Valerie Beltran—a healer, therapist, and compassionate guide who has redefined what it means to hold space for others. Valerie’s journey into the world of therapy feels almost preordained, driven by her lifelong fascination with people and their stories. Her superpower? Being super at being human.Known for her unique ability to create a safe, judgment-free environment, Valerie is the confidante for life’s most vulnerable moments—the person you can trust with your deepest truths. Her presence is both grounding and empowering, offering a balance of strength and surrender, gentleness and directness. In her sessions, you’ll find not just a therapist but a collaborator, a cheerleader for your inner healing, and at times, a friend who knows the power of simply listening.Valerie’s approach is a masterful blend of Western psychology, Eastern and Indigenous traditions, and cutting-edge research on the mind-body connection. She sees humanity through a lens of neurodiversity, rejecting the outdated notions of “normal” and instead celebrating the vast and creative potential of human differences. Her work is compassionate, collaborative, and deeply informed by both science and spirit.Today, we’ll dive into Valerie’s world—exploring her journey, her wisdom, and her commitment to helping others uncover their most authentic selves. Let’s welcome Valerie Beltran to the conversation!https://www.therapywithvalerie.com/http://linkedin.com/in/valerie-beltrán-28460478 One on One Video call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkg

Darkness struck, a gut-punched theft, Sun ripped away, her health bereft. I roar at the void. This ain't just fate, a cosmic scam I spit my hate. The games rigged tight, shadows deal, blood on their hands, I'll never kneel. Yet in the rage, a crack ignites, occulted sparks cut through the nights. The scars my key, hermetic and stark. To see, to rise, I hunt in the dark, fumbling, fear. Hears through ruins maze, lights my war cry, born from the blaze.

The poem is Angels with Rifles. The track, I Am Sorrow, I Am Lust by Codex Serafini. Check out the entire song at the end of the cast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shining. I hope the birds are singing. I hope the wind is at your back.

I hope you are excited for a great show today because I have with me, Valerie Beltran. And in this conversation today, I just want to say that I am honored to share space with the remarkable Valerie, a healer, a therapist, and compassionate guide who has redefined what it means to hold space for others. Valerie's journey into the world of therapy feels almost preordained, driven by her lifelong fascination with people and their stories, her superpower, being super at being human. Known for her unique ability to create a safe, judgment-free environment, Valerie is the confidant for life's most vulnerable moments.

The person you can trust with your deepest truths. Her presence is both grounding and empowering, offering a balance of strength and surrender, gentleness and directness. In her sessions, you'll find not just a therapist, but a collaborator, a cheerleader for your inner healing, and at times a friend who knows the power of simply listening. Valerie's approach is a masterful blend of Western psychology, Eastern, and indigenous traditions,

and cutting-edge research on the mind-body connection. She sees humanity through a lens of neurodiversity, rejecting the outdated notions of normal, and instead celebrating the vast and creative potential of human differences. Her work is compassionate, collaborative, and deeply informed by both science and spirit. Today we'll dive into Valerie's world exploring her journey, her wisdom, and her commitment to helping others uncover their most authentic. selves. Let's welcome Valerie Belchran to the conversation. Valerie, how are you today? Good, thanks. That was an incredible take on my bio. I love that. Did you write that?

Did you write that? That was impressive. Yep. Yeah, a little bit of both. If people want to know the secret, I think always you should, you should definitely investigate and do research on the people you're talking to. And if you can find like three or four different bios that they have put up somewhere on different places, then you can take those three and with some help of AI, just kind of combine them and kind of cajole it to, hey, here's the person I'm talking to. Here's the conversation I want. Can you please look at these bios? And let's try to make this thing work together. And it takes a few prompts or whatever, but it comes out beautiful. And I hope that I did well in presenting it, because that's what I want the podcast to be. And those are the people I want to

talk to. So it works out well. You really did. You knocked that out of the park. I mean, even some of those things, I'm like, that's not even on print anywhere on a website. I'm like, that is something obscure that I said in some little talk that I did a long time ago. How did you find that? That's impressive. Yeah, I think the future is beautiful. I think that, you know, when we can start finding or paying attention to the details that someone might have said a while back and incorporating them into the bigger picture, I think we're starting to expand our sense of awareness on some level. Absolutely. I feel like I, just a couple nights ago, was at this little social gathering for some people in the psychedelic space. And I ran into somebody that I hadn't seen in

like a year and a half. And he and I connected at the psychedelic science conference. And we were both at a little after party during one of the conference nights. And there was a musician who was going to be playing later. And I remember watching this guy. And he was watching the sound check for the musician. And the way he was just completely absorbed and like listening to this musician, I could see that the music was impacting him in such an intense, beautiful way. And I could see like this guy's experience and see his heart and see his like emotion just by watching him watch this musician's sound check, not even his performance. And so I went up to the guy and I was like, are you, are you available for a conversation right now? Yeah, I love how you asked me that.

And he's like, wait, let's talk. And he says that I interviewed him because I have this natural curiosity for people and I just got to know him and I was able to see his essence. He was like, you, you captured such a beautiful moment and an energy that you saw in me that I really wanted to talk through and you were able to ask me the right questions to allow that essence to unfold. It's a beautiful story. And I do think it speaks volumes of the elevated awareness or the evolution of awareness that seems to be happening, especially in the psychedelic space and There's so many events. Like there's,

there's so much, sometimes trauma, but sometimes other things that happen in these altered states that bond people together forever. And as I say that, I got a friend of mine coming in from Hawaii. Here, Reg 420, I love you, brother.

I hope you're doing amazing out there. This is my friend from Hawaii, Valerie. This guy right here, this guy had a heart attack. Man, and he, I don't know if he wants me to tell the story. I probably should be careful. Anyways, there's a really good chance that this guy's heart attack was saved because he had a huge dose of, he attributes, and the paramedics attribute his ability to rebound back from a large amount of psilocybin a few days before.

I know that that's kind of, you know, there's not a whole lot of science behind that, but there is a lot of science behind neuroplasticity and learning to talk again and learning to walk again. And this guy swears cardiac arrest. Sorry, Reg. Cardiac arrest. It's fascinating. And I just wanted to bring that up because he's over here and I love this guy. But Valerie, you work at the Zendo Project. Maybe you could tell me a little bit about that.

And we can kind of get into some different stories and talk about just psychedelics and life and things like that. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, first and foremost, I'm a therapist. I practice. I have a private practice and I specialize in trauma. And I do a podcast called EMDR. eye movement, desensitization, reprocessing. That's a traumatic technique that I often work with.

So that's the bulk of the work that I do. I have my private practice. And then I also work with psychedelics. I supervise at a clinic that's a psychedelic-assisted therapy clinic. Right now we're serving ketamine. And we work with marginalized community members in Oakland, California. It's a low-fee sliding scale clinic. So we're able to provide accessible, affordable ketamine-assisted psychedelic therapy.

And outside of doing that, and I work with Zendo Project, and I am the outreach director. I'm also a supervisor when we provide services at festivals. And so what Zendo Project does is we provide psychedelic care and emotional support at festivals. So if somebody is experiencing a difficult experience, whether they've taken a lot of psychedelics, or just feeling overstimulated in a festival or even space, or if they've experienced some kind of trauma, like maybe they've had an assault, abuse, something stolen from them, grief, a breakup,

whatever they're experiencing. They can come to one of our tents. And like at Burning Man, we have two spaces where on both sides of the playa. People can come from anywhere. We're staffed 24-7, and we have amazing volunteers who take time out of their own festival experience

to sit and share, the experiences of these guests who come in and are just seeking solace, wanting some care, wanting a compassionate individual just to listen to them. We provide a safe, quiet space for people to recover. I'm so stoked to get to hear about that. And I'm so stoked that you and other people choose to help out people that need help, you know, whether it's in your practice or at Zendo. It sounds to me like you have a profound curiosity with behavior. Where did that come from? I mean, And I know that, you know, you grew up in a Mexican-American sort of one foot in both worlds. But where did your profound curiosity from behavior come from?

Yeah, it really feels innate. I remember my grandmother, I was very close with her when I was young. She used to take me out for lunch every so often. I would just ask her a million questions. And she used to say the one word she would use to describe me was inquisitive. And she was the one who taught me that word. And I always held on to that. I was like, that's a cool word, and it feels cool for her to label me in that way.

And so I carried this description of inquisitive for so long as this badge of honor. And to me, it really feels like a way of caring for people to show such genuine curiosity of, I just want to know you. I want to know your story. I want to feel your essence. I want to see your soul. I want to know, like, all the juicy details. To me, I think that's one of the best things we can offer to people.

And it's just fascinating. I love learning people's stories. I love hearing their innermost thoughts and feelings. To me, what more is there in life? Yeah. It's so interesting, too. It seems to me that, you know, altered states of awareness or altered states of consciousness find a way for us to see ourselves in our relationships in a way that is almost foreign

to us. You know, you can find this thing that you felt so guilty about, but you can kind of sneak up on it in an alternate state of awareness and put your arm around it and be like, hey, what's going on over here? You know, and it's so interesting to think about the ways in which we can change the way we feel about ourselves and relationships and altered states of awareness. And, you know, you see that a lot in your practice and in Zindo. What's your take on how the relationship between ourselves, our vision of ourselves, and altered states of awareness? You know, I think the term altered states is an interesting term, and it really kind of implies this state of like a normal state and then anything outside of it altered, right? Yeah, and it's like, let's start with that baseline. Like, is that a true statement?

Is that something we want to operate from? And for me, I think there are so many different states of consciousness, different states of being. And I don't really agree that there's like a typical or a norm, and then we just kind of take a substance or experience something that shifts us out of it temporarily. I think it's way more a spectrum and shades of gray where we might come in and out of lots of different states of consciousness and feel kind of altered for many reasons throughout any given day like sans substance. So I think being able to have that lens first and foremost can give us a sense of, there's not any particular like norm that I should be striving for or that is like what's acceptable.

And then outside of that, it gives us this opportunity to just kind of play with different states of consciousness and have a curiosity without any judgment of this is not the norm. So maybe I shouldn't take this as seriously or I'm not in my like correct state of mind. So any thought or dream or goal that I come up with in this altered state, I shouldn't take that as seriously because it's not my like baseline state of consciousness. I feel like it can allow us this freedom to appreciate thoughts or experiences that could come out in any state of consciousness, whether it's altered or not. Yeah, it's a great point. the semantics on some level can fundamentally change the way you see the world yourself on some level. And it's true.

Like aren't we just shifting through different states constantly? Like a moment ago, I was a little hungry. And then now I'm, you know, whatever, you're always shifting through these different states, to say there's something like normal. Yeah. It's pretty bad. Good. Yeah.

I feel like even with a lot of my clients, my private practice work, I will often work on people, of course, I think, recognize the importance of having, like, a meditation practice or a dedicated practice where you can sit for or even engage in, like, yoga or some kind of active meditation practice. It doesn't have to be a sitting practice. I think people recognize the importance of having something devoted for, like, half an hour, an hour if possible. But most people don't have that kind of time. And so I, I work a lot with people on just creating little mindful moments. Someone the other day said that this is like microdosing mindfulness.

And I love this idea of like, okay, let's at least just microdose mindfulness. Like there's a whole fervor about microdosing psilocybin right now or microdosing other psychedelics. How about it's microdose mindfulness? Like let's just take these little moments where if you are chopping vegetables, getting dressed, getting into the shower, driving, doing all these things that are very rote that you usually just go into autopilot and your mind starts to wander. Let's prioritize those moments as times when you can take a breath, bring your attention into

your body, notice what you're feeling, ask yourself, what's alive for me right now? What am I feeling? Is there an emotion that's underneath the surface that wants to to be tuned into? Is there a voice that I could listen to right now that's whispering something that if I turn my attention towards it, I can hear that and it's actually something that can really give me a lot of value or insight or just give it the experience of being heard. So taking these moments of mindfulness, it feels a really good tool to look at these different states of consciousness throughout the day and become more aware. of maybe right now I'm in a little bit more of a daydreaming kind of state.

And with that comes like an appreciation of things in a slower way. Like maybe I am looking at the leaves that are blowing outside the window. Maybe I'm noticing a cat in the corner who's soaking up the sunlight. Maybe I appreciate the warmth of the sunlight coming through. That's my state of consciousness right now. And then maybe I'll shift into a state of consciousness. where I'm in deep focus mode and I am not aware of anything around me because I am sucked into my computer. I'm in flow state.

I'm writing something that feels really powerful and I am just completely tuned in. And that's a different state of consciousness. And then maybe there's a whole other when where I'm just completely connected and immersed in a conversation that I'm having with someone and I feel much more in my heart and in my emotions and my body. So I'm looking at all these different like altered states. is they're just variations of states of consciousness and different parts of ourselves can come alive during different states of consciousness and we can attune to them and find value in them instead of assigning one like a normal state or a baseline. Yeah, it seems so like to just define something as one. It seems like so narrow and short-sighted on some level. I can't, I, I can't, I, I, I, I'm so curious about relationships, you know, and it seems to me that you work a lot in relationships and all the things that you're doing.

And I'm curious to get your opinion on. Do you think the relationship you have with yourself is the same relationship you have with the people around you? Yeah. Many layered question. We can take that in so many directions. I like that. Yeah, I think our relationship with our self, of course, forms the foundation for the relationship we can have with anybody else. And the relationship with self also kind of, for me at least, implies lots of different selves.

Again, there's not just one self, right? There are many different aspects of ourselves. We could look at like an internal family systems, like a parts work where we can see all these different parts of ourselves. And borrowing from internal family systems for anyone not familiar, there are these different categories of parts of ourselves where it's like maybe there are these firefighters who come online. if there's some kind of threat and they will jump onto the scene and protect us. And maybe there are these managers who are just kind of managing our normal baseline experience and keeping any threats from coming up.

And then there are these exiles or the truly vulnerable parts that are usually the ones being protected and less able to reveal themselves. So we could look at these different categories of parts of ourselves and see some of those relationships. And then there's also like a deeper, more spiritual. sense like I incorporate a lot of spirituality into a lot of my practices, not necessarily in dogmatic way and not even necessarily naming spiritual practices or principles, but I will come from a more deeply, like spiritually aligned place in myself. And part of that comes with

recognizing that I think there's kind of this true self and a false self, which could also be different ways of describing like the ego and the soul or like a higher self. and your kind of day-to-day self, or it's like a voice of anxiety versus a voice of groundedness or like a centered foundation of being. And so with like the true self, I think that's more your soul perspective.

That's like you and your highest self. That's you when you are speaking from this place of deep truth. I often refer to as like the chest voice. So when you hear that voice, it feels like it's coming from a deeper place and it resonates more from this chest place versus the false self that is like the ego. It's kind of this head voice. And to me, when I hear something coming from my head voice, it almost sounds more tinny. It's like a whiny, like anxious, kind of frenetic energy that feels very different than when it's something coming from my chest.

And like an example of that is like if I'm asking myself, well, do I want to take this job offer? Like I'm wondering about that question of myself, right? I have all these different voices coming up being telling me different things. Then maybe there might be one voice that's the head voice that's kind of saying like, don't take that job. Like what about the job that you have right now? You can't let go of security. We don't know what that job is going to look like.

Yeah, there could be some benefits. There could be a lot of great opportunities, but also what if they're not? What if it turns out to be like something scary or something bad? Like it feels like this almost kind of like frenetic, tinny kind of voice versus like this deeper chest place that is usually a much wider perspective, a much more grounded. Like you'll feel into if it feels like the right job.

And maybe there's no such thing as. the right job anyway. Maybe there are just different options to take in different paths to walk. And when I hear that voice, I feel the settling into myself of, okay, yeah, that resonates more from this deeper place. So to answer your questions, very long-convoluted way, if we have these different relationships with ourselves, then we can have more clarity. more connectedness to ourselves and more authenticity that we can bring into relationship with other people. I don't think it's convoluted at all.

In fact, I think after hearing that particular answer, I understand why you are the director of outreach, and I understand why you're successful in your practice. Like when you started, like I could see the tinny character. Oh, yeah, I know that guy inside me. Yeah, don't listen to that guy. I got whining about stuff. Take it easy, you know?

It's so funny. It's well done. You know, it's, there's something that happens. And I'm curious to hear what you have to think. I think we all know people, and we probably both have had incredible experiences where you go deep on a trip. Like, you're like, I'm going to take this 14 grams. Boom. All of a sudden you find yourself like, I'm pretty sure I think I'm Jesus.

Pretty sure. I should be calling my mom right now at three in the morning. I should call my sister. Yeah, but then you can't talk. see anything. Sometimes in these really deep trips, you find yourself in uncharted territory. And that is like being next to a wild animal. You're like, whoa, what's going to happen here? I'm sure that you have seen that, maybe even experienced it from time to time. What sort of advice do you have for people that maybe they're, you know, maybe they are veterans or maybe they're new, but they find themselves

in really deep water, uncharted territory. I'm sure you see that quite often. Absolutely. I mean, This is often something that will come up when we see guests come into our zendos and we're providing services at festivals or at events. We'll have people come in who are experiencing really hellish rain, really scary, themselves come up, feel like there are these things that they're actually seeing. They've kind of lost side of reality, lost side of even who they are. I've seen that even in my private practice sometimes it'll come up. I've experienced that myself. I've experienced an ego death where I completely had no sense of who I was.

I could not remember my name or any autobiographical detail of myself whatsoever. And in those moments, maybe I'll speak from my ego death experience because I think it's good to stay in the subjective space of what I actually experienced. And I like to talk about my own difficult experiences as a therapist. I think it builds a lot of confidence for people to know that I've also been in these places and they know that I have one come out of them and that I can better walk with somebody who's going through a difficult experience if I've walked that terrain myself. And so speaking from my experience, luckily, when I had my ego death, it was well into my understanding of psychedelics, well into my therapy practice.

it only came about about a year and a half ago. So this was a recent experience. It was very deep in my understanding of spiritual practices. I had a great relationship with ego, ego death. Like I'd done a lot of inner work on myself. So I came in much more resource and prepared than probably many people are when they have these experiences. And because of that, I kind of anticipated that that could happen.

I knew I was taking a rather high dose or a high dose from my body, my sensitivity. It took 80 milligrams intramuscularly ketamine in a clinic. And I kind of anticipated that I might have an ego death experience. And fortunately, I had coached myself and was very prepared. I was with, it was at a clinic that I was working at. And so I knew my coworkers. I knew the doctor who had injected the ketamine into me. I knew the nurse with whom I was sitting. I knew everybody, I felt very comfortable and safe. And so I had coached myself going into it, anticipating that this might happen, that I might have this experience of being completely dethroned and not knowing who or what or where I was. And when it happened, I had just a slight awareness of,

I remember thinking this could happen or some distant part of me. I don't know who that person was or what her name was, but some distant part of me anticipated something like this happening. And now it's happening. And I remember this. There's a little part of me and it was like, this is what we trained for. We're ready. Let's do this. And I was like, okay, I'm in it.

Here we go. I remember that I need to breathe. I thought, okay, breathe. I often tell people, breath is the most simple. most important, most profound tool that we have. That breath is the one bodily function that we can either completely control or have absolutely no control of and it will function completely without our conscious control of it. And that there's something magical just itself right there that we can't have total control over it and also it can completely function on its own. It's magical. And so breath

is this very simple tool that has such a profound effect. And returning to the breath is so important to regulate our nervous system, to give us space to be able to take a pause, like between stimulus and response, there's a pause, there's an opportunity to make a choice. And in that choice lies freedom. It's a Victor Frankel quote. That's a perturbation of a Victor Frankel quote.

And when you have that breath, when you're able to take that pause, it's the opportunity and the freedom to choose, what do I want to do with this? Like, here's a situation that's being presented to me. Maybe it's a terrifying thing that I'm seeing. Maybe it's just a complete uncertainty, lack of awareness, total ego, death, dissolution where I don't even know who I am. Whatever it is that's happening, when you take a breath, it's this opportunity to take a step back and say, all right, I can't control life and the circumstances in which I currently find myself. But I can control how I want to react to it and what I do with it. So let me take a breath.

Let me feel into my body and let me decide what I want to do with this. And so for me, when I had that experience, I breathed very heavily and I thought, okay, I remember there's this idea of surrender. I need to surrender in some kind of way. And I was able to just relax a little bit. And the words surrender, trust, let go. Those can be triggering for some people. And I think they're kind of difficult because they kind of imply a binary like you either trust or you don't trust. You either. let go or you're holding on to something. And I don't like anything that's a binary for many reasons because I think it's too black or white. Also because when you create this binary, it creates a pressure that you have to do one thing. And if you're not doing it perfectly, it means you're not doing it at all. There's a whole lot of middle ground. So in my practice, I try to erase those binaries wherever we can. So these false dichotomies that are these false dichotomies

that our brains tend to create, that we put pressure on ourselves, that we are either doing something or we're not. And I tried to find middle grounds, shades of gray, between those things. So instead of surrendering for me when I was having that experience and I was breathing and I was reminding myself what to do, I thought, can I just be curious? I'm an innately curious person, right? can I use that curiosity to just explore my experience? Maybe I don't have to completely surrender to it, but maybe I can explore. So for me, I like the idea, explore or have curiosity.

Those are words that for me are more comfortable than surrender, trust, or let go. I also, instead of the word let go, I like the term let in, because I can be letting in a difficult aspect of an experience, but that doesn't mean I have to push everything else out. It doesn't mean that I'm either letting go or I'm holding on. It means I'm letting in and I can have other parts of me in there too. I don't have to exclusively only be letting go or holding on. I can be feeling many different things at once.

I can let in a scary feeling, and there can be part of me that can be feeling comfortable. I can be feeling extreme discomfort, and there can be parts of me that are finding comfort. So I like those kinds of words better, and I teach them to other people, unfortunately, because I had this training, I was able to use those words myself. So I remembered these words. I remembered these concepts, and I was able to explore my. experience and have curiosity about my experience and that helped me stop freaking out. It stopped from coming and I wasn't completely freaking out but I felt like I could. If I didn't do something I could have easily freaked out.

But I was able to just explore, be curious about my experience and it kept me from freaking out. And then the most important point that I like to tell people is, is I was able to relax enough to be curious about my experience. And then I had this blissful moment. And then the trauma, the terror, the fear came up again. And I was like, wait, I just did the whole curiosity thing. I just did the whole surrender thing. You're telling me I got to do it again.

And turns out, yeah, it's not just a one-time thing. It's a continual process. And that became a good metaphor for life of I don't just surrender once or I don't just trust once or don't just release once it's a continual practice like things will always come up that can be difficult and this is why it's a practice i love it it's such an awesome story and it just speaks to the embodiment of of the experience like it does it feels like a test it feels like okay i'm going to show you life in about four hours or i'm going to however long the substance you take sometimes It's like I'm going to show you.

I'm going to simulate the difficult times and you're going to sit with it because you can't go anywhere because you're under the influence. You have to sit with this thing and hold on to it. And you learn like once you just sit with it for a little while, you stare at it and you let it run its course, it moves away. And it's such a metaphor for life, right? Because it just teaches you. And then it comes up again. Okay, you did it this time. How fast can you do it this time?

Are you comfortable with it yet? Let's try it again. Let's try it again. It's like the simulation that you can do. I can't help but think of the word default mode network. And it seems that so many people were moving past this default mode network. Maybe the default mode network is a binary system. Yes, no, good, bad.

We're moving past that into this way. We're changing our language. We're changing our awareness. It seems that at least in this space, a lot of people are having these similar experiences. What do you think? Yeah, it's an interesting idea. And for anyone not aware, the default mode network is the part of the brain that for right now, our understanding of psychedelics, a lot of people understand that there is some

relationship with this part of the brain. I think first and foremost, we don't fully understand how psychedelics work. We don't fully understand how the brain works. So I'm always cautious any time I try to wax poetic explaining any kind of function of the brain. Also, I'm not a neuroscientist. So take this with a grain of salt. But I think a lot of research right now is pointing to this particular part of the brain called the default mode network that is kind of responsible for a lot of the like autobiographical sense of self. Like this is who I know myself to be. It's kind of like the seat of the ego, if you will,

like the parts of ourselves that have developed all of these defense mechanisms or all of these personality structures, these ways of being, and ways that we feel like we need to show up in the world in order to feel safe or to receive love or to feel good enough. So it's kind of our personality, if you will, but from a defended place. So it's kind of that. false sense of self, like the sense of self that we have to create based on the experiences that

we have early in life for how we think we need to move through the world. And what psychedelics do is they decrease a lot of the activity in this part of the brain while you're under the influence of the psychedelic. And what that does is it allows you to have freedom from all of these egos structures, these defense mechanisms, these ways of seeing this is who I am, this is who I have to be to show up in the world, it liberates you from that for this temporary time where you're able to see maybe the true self, the deeper sense of self, maybe your soul, your higher self, whatever you want to call it, it allows you to connect to this deeper place, to that kind of chest voice. And so often when I see people on psychedelics who are in that place, they will say these incredibly powerful, liberated things.

Like, I don't know why I try so hard when I don't have to try. Like, I am lovable as I am. I am worthy as I am. Like, I feel connected to people. I don't have to try to find love. I am enough. There are so many utterings of people feeling that profound truth. And yeah, I think it's interesting what you're saying, bringing it back to this like,

are we moving away from like a default mode network? I think when enough people start to tap into that place of feeling I am enough, I don't have to hold on to these eco structures or this way of people pleasing or proving myself worth by being successful or whatever we do in life, I don't have to act from that place. I can let go of it. When enough people start to tap into that and can start living from that place, it really allows for an evolution of self and then evolution on the collective level. Like maybe that evolution starts trickling out to the people closest to you, the people in your system. And then maybe those start trickling out to the people in your wider community.

community and to more global skills. And for me, I think this is how evolution can work, where we will actually develop to different stages of consciousness, different levels of being. I think, yeah, maybe we are seeing the shift away from the default mode network. I'm curious to learn more about what you mean by that, how you're seeing that. So, yeah, can you say a little bit more about that? Yeah, like, well, I was talking to Amy Reichelt yesterday.

And I'm so fortunate to get to talk to so many cool people like yourself included. And I was asking her about mechanism of action because she's studying like the 52A, the 52A receptor. And there's all these cool studies out there. But I asked her, I'm like, Amy, are we ever really going to figure out mechanism of action? There's so many variables. You can't, like there's just too many variables. We can do A squared plus B squared plus C squared. but we don't know about what D is or what E.

We don't thoroughly understand the algebra. So we're not going to solve mechanism of action, at least on like a serious level. This is just some truck driver talking. So this is just my thoughts on it. But I don't think we're going to figure that out anytime soon. But I think what we can start thinking about is that we can look at, we can put some of these things together and come up with an idea. I'm talking to Luke Jensen who does imaging from people that do ayahuasca,

and he can see the different brainwaves happen. And we know about the default mode network. So we can come up with some ideas about, you know, as above, so below. If our mind is changing inside of us and we as individuals are moving out of sort of this default mode network where we're living this life in a routine. And most people find themselves that go through psychedelic therapy, breaking the routine. They start doing something different. And when they do that, their whole relationship changes. So I feel like the default mode network is not only a way we think, but it's a way we do.

It's a way we be. And when you start, look at, if you factor in neuroplasticity in there, you start processing information in different parts of the brain, your whole behavior changes. What you do in life changes, your relationship changes, the way you talk to yourself changes. So when I say default mode network, I'm saying more than the brain, I'm saying the default George. You know, when you, when you, I don't know, when you pick out a car, it comes with default. Okay, it defaults to the two door. It defaults to the vanity mirror. It defaults to the four cylinder engine.

But if you want to, there's these other options. If you're going to be conscious and make conscious choices, there are other options. And so I think that on some level, psychedelics allows us to be more conscious of the changes in our lives. But if you want to go through life using the default mode network, you can. And in fact, I think we're encouraged when you start looking at education, when you look at K through 5, you know, you go to a classroom, you sit in front of an authoritarian figure. You've got to ask for permission to go to the bathroom. You have to have the default mode network instilled in you from K to 12. But a lot of the smartest people I know were the troublemakers.

And these people were figuring out ways to get out of the default mode network. So, I don't know. What do you think about it? Yeah. Another term for default mode network in the way you're using is just autopilot, right? Yeah, thank you. Beautiful. On autopilot.

Yeah. I think so many of us don't realize that that's our baseline, what we're operating. because the key word is realize. We don't realize, period. We don't have the self-awareness to be able to tune in to see where is this coming from right now? Like, is this my true authentic self that's wanting to take this action? Probably not in many times. Probably the conditioning that we've received from school, from culture, from parents, from families,

from all these different systems of inculcation that we receive early on that create the sense of who we're supposed to be and how we're supposed to show up to be good enough or to feel love. And so, yeah, when you experience a psychedelic, all of that conditioning is stripped away and you feel the sense of, I am good enough, period. I don't need to do anything to prove worth. I am good enough simply because I am a human being who is alive today, period. That is why I'm good enough. I don't have to do or be anything more than anything I already am. And yeah, I think so many people when they're able to have a glimpse of that, those beautiful things that you can't unglimpse it. And that wakes you up. It's like the matrix moment of pulling out of the matrix. And you're like,

oh, shit, I was living in the matrix. Yeah, I was in this default road network. I was on autopilot. And now I recognize there's a choice. And that gives you this choice. of do I want to go back to that or do I want to do some self-work, learn to tune into myself, learn to question, is this coming from conditioning or is this what I actually want to be doing from my truest self? Is this the anxious head voice that's telling me to do this? Or is this the deep chest soul voice that's telling me this is authentic to me and this is what I want to be doing? I love it. And that brings up this idea. of Valerie, we spoke about, you know, if enough people begin to figure this out, you know, I think

it's something along the lines of, it takes 5% of people to fulminor revolution. But, and if we can, if we can, there's a great saying that says, the best predictor of future behavior is past relevant behavior. And if I look back to the late 50s, we saw psychedelics in this medical container before it became contagious and spread out to a wider audience. I'm curious, do you think that we are amongst of that right now. Like we see this medical container that it's in. And we see some problems with clinical trials. We see some pushback from different agencies.

But all the while this pushback and stuff is happening, it's spreading out to a wider audience. You know, maybe people that aren't clinicians. The underground seems to be thriving with certification. Are we seeing psychedelics maybe moving into the next phase, which is maybe something more like the 60s were? Yeah.

I tend to think a lot. and like you try to keep a long-term perspective on things. Think about a lot of like systems perspectives, a lot of cycles. I try to understand like large perspectives and how things can can move in these cycles and understanding where we might be at and a cycle can help me have a greater sense of peace and acceptance around things. And I often use, I think it's largely been attributed to Plato coming up with the concept of like thesis antithesis synthesis.

A lot of people also use that model. And maybe he wasn't the first to originate it, but just saying he's often credited with that. And this idea of synthesis being the ultimate, like this is where we can take these, well, starting with thesis, right, you have this idea or this like new thing that's kind of put out there. Often there will be a rejection. There will be a swing in the opposite direction of finding out what might be wrong with it or people rejecting it or being able to just poke holes and have a healthy criticism, and maybe it'll overcorrect and swing too far in the opposite direction, or maybe it's just healthy to be able to scrutinize something. But we have this antithesis where we kind of go against the thesis, right, whatever this given

idea might be. And then after time, you might poke holes in the holes that have been poked, right? And then you kind of recognize, oh, okay, well, here are ways to synthesize the holes and the criticisms that have come from that, here are ways to make it a little bit more, to bring greater peace to it, to figure out ways to synthesize it. So then you come back around and this synthesis. And then ultimately, that synthesis then becomes the thesis of the next stage where it's like, oh, no, wait, their ideas here that still need to be criticized. And so it becomes the antithesis. And up we go on this spiral, this endless cycle of thesis, antithesis.

synthesis, synthesis, thesis, and this forever and ever, right? Turtles all the way down and all the way up. And we have that cycle. And from me, it helps to have that long-term perspective. So bringing this back to your question with psychedelics, I think. We are in a bit of that cycle where, like, the 60s in like mainstream Western society, we had this huge bust around, this boom and bust around psychedelics, where it was heavy in research.

It seemed like there was a lot of potential. There's a lot of fervor. It gets adopted into mainstream. And then the antithesis comes that it becomes associated with the counterculture. And then it becomes this illicit thing. And it gets pushed into the dark recesses of their collective and conscious. And so we push it away. and we come up with the Reagan and the DARE program and all of these like anti-drug education things, right?

So that's the antithesis that we've been living in for a while. And now I feel like there's this resurgence and people are calling it psychedelic renaissance. And we're again starting to evaluate, well, maybe some of those holes that we were poking in the psychedelic idea, psychedelic revolution. Maybe those holes weren't quite so accurate. or maybe we were too hard on those things and let's reevaluate. So now it feels like we might be in a bit of a synthesis, where we're kind of bringing back in some of the benefits that we were initially seeing in the 60s before it was all outlawed in the 70s

and starting to recognize. But I think an important thing that's shifting, at least I'm hoping to see more of this in Western society around psychedelics, is that part of that synthesis and part of the plugging of the, plugging of those holes is that we're incorporating a lot of the indigenous wisdom around psychedelics that have existed forever. Like indigenous cultures all over the world have used psychedelics for time and memorial. Like this is not new in any facet of the society, only in Western society where we're starting to like open up to this. And I think a lot of people in Western society is part of the

synthesis, we're starting to take some of that ancient teaching and indigenous teachings and being able to understand this more long-term perspective and build a healthier culture around it. I'm a little hopeful in seeing that being the direction for the future. Maybe I'm being a little bit too optimistic there, but I think that could be one of the ways that we are catching the holes. But the point is that I feel like now we could be in this place of synthesis. where we're starting to reintegrate how psychedelics could be part of culture and people are really opening up to it in a positive way. And all that being said, taking this truly global perspective,

this is just going to be the thesis of the next stage. So there will be ultimately more holes poked into this. There will be different trials and tribulations and challenges and it's not going to just be widely accepted and like things are just a okay there will be more challenge and it's a necessary part of the development and the stages and i think we are on a path towards greater acceptance and um influence in the mainstream and um that's just all part of the spiral we're just going to keep going up with this journey and so godelic i love it bringing it all the way back to plato you know i I feel like we're... You got to...

Well done. Yeah, right? I feel like there's always some kind of... In any Western interview, you've got to bring it back to Plato. Yeah. Yeah, I feel... I feel like we're in the allegory of the cave, right? Some people have broken out and you come back in.

You're like, hey, it's totally different out there. People are like, get out of here. It's the shadows. Just look at the shadows, man. Yeah, we're not quite out of the cave yet. It's so crazy to be... Let me see. I know we're kind of coming up.

on time here. We've spoken a little bit about the dance of science and spirituality, but it does sort of seem like we're beginning to incorporate the spiritual practices that make us whole back into science on some level. I'm sure that you see that a lot in your practice. Can you talk on that a little bit? Can you ask me a little bit more directly? Like, yeah, of course. How about this? In your therapeutic practice, how do you choreograph the dance between Western psychology, Eastern philosophies, and indigenous healing methods? What unique insights have you gained from this integration when dealing with mystical experiences? Yeah. Very complex topic. Many, many, many different thoughts running through my head right now. I'm choosing where I want to go. Yeah, I think for me,

I'll start by saying, like, why is this foundational to me and some of my studies? I studied a holistic counseling psychology program for my master's. It was not just a regular traditional Western psychology. We also had Eastern traditions, indigenous teachings. And so it pulled from lots of different cultures, lots of different times. And for me, that was really important being able to have this like pulled back perspective on lots of different cultures. And I think because I am a person who has two cultural identities, my father is from Mexico and my mother is from the U.S., I also grew up on the border between these two countries, so it was very not this world, not that world, like don't really belong in one country or the other. So I always had this kind of zoomed out, pulled back perspective on I don't belong to any one particular culture.

I don't see things from just one particular lens or perspective. I like to have many different perspectives. and spirituality and indigenous teachings, Eastern traditions, lots of different religions, lots of different cultural customs, I think create this like zoomed out lens that helps me just in my seat of consciousness. It helps me pull back and hold things

in this grander place of acceptance of not being pigeonholed or seeing through any particular lens. It allows me to flip on these different lenses. Like if you're at the eye doctrine, they're showing all these different lenses. It changes like perspective based on whatever lens they're putting in front of you. I can flip through all these different perspectives and see the world in plethora ways. So it first and foremost informs just how I am able to view the world and how I am able to sit with clients and connect, I think, more deeply. with people from this zoomed-out perspective. So that's how it informs me just in my essence,

in my being and work with people. Then the actual practices that I can use, it feels like it creates this very eclectic toolbox that I have tools from all different cultures, all different traditions, lots of different things that I can pull. I can quote Plato as easily as I can quote some Native American elders. They can pull all these different like teachings from many different cultures because one culture or one lens is not going to resonate with everybody. I have clients from all over the place, many different perspectives, many different cultures, just many different worldviews. So being able to pull tools that can reach somebody wherever they're at and meeting people

where they are is to me one of the best, most attuned ways it can be a therapist. And it's just like studying lots of different modalities as a therapist. Like I'm not going to expect that EMDR is the right fit for every client who walks in my door. I can't expect that psilocybin is the right medicine for everybody who walks in my door. I can't expect that there's one lens or worldview for everybody who walks in my door. People are going to have many different perspectives and to be able to appreciate that and pull from this eclective. bag I've got and just find all these different bags of tricks. I'm like, here, how about this one? How about this one? How about this one? That's not good for you?

Cool. No good deal. Let's just find something that works for you wherever you're at. I love it. I can't, in my mind, I can see the optometrist tool with all the different lenses. Like, that's such an awesome analogy. It's just beautiful. Like, that should be a logo. Like, I could see what totally, you know what I mean? I totally be your logo. It's super awesome. Let me see. You know, only recently have I have, have, have begun to research the idea of neurodiversity. And I speak with so many people.

I hope I was a, I'm big on the different ideas of neurodiversity. And it seems to me so many people find ourselves in a world where the, the, the black and white doesn't make sense. And we're all beginning to understand that we're all a little bit neurodiverse. Like how do you see that becoming more accepted in the future in the next five, ten, or 15 years, it's going to be something that, oh, yeah, we're all kind of neurodiverse. That's my personal bend on things. And, yeah, I have that on my website as well. And a lot that I pull up, like Dr. Nick Walker, who is one of the people who talks a lot

about this. And she will talk about how there are often these misconceptions that, yeah, there's this idea of being neurotypical or there's the norm, right? And it's also, like, the foundation for a lot of pathologies. It's like there's a norm. And then there are the people who stray from. that norm, they're the pathologized ones, they're the broken ones, the ones who need to be diagnosed and treated and have a whole book of DSM-5 written about them. So how do we deal

with these people who are outside of the norm? So, yeah, you can tell them the way I'm talking about it. I'm not a fan of this kind of way of things. And yeah, I think that we are leaning more into understanding that, well, there's just a lot of, I like the word neurospicy. I don't remember where I heard that, so I can't credit it to who I. but there's a lot of neurospiciness. Like we just have different flavors of the way that our neurons are firing and wiring in our brains. It's just different.

And there's no one norm. And it's not that we're different from a norm. It's we're all different, period. We're all unique snowflakes. And our brains function in different ways. And maybe some people struggle with certain things. Some people excel at certain things. doesn't mean anybody's more or less broken than anybody else or more in need of treatment than

anybody else. That's not to say that some people don't struggle more with things than other people. So I'm not trying to erase hardship. There are people who have extreme difficulties and have struggle fitting in with society. But I think that there's more a problem between fit in society rather than something being like wrong with your brain. So I don't think it's something wrong with the person. I think it's something wrong with the fit and how they're trying to fit into a society or an environment that is not designed for them. So the problem is with the society not fitting to them, not them not fitting into society. Yeah. I always think of the first four letters of culture and I'm like, that's the problem. Society is sick on so many levels

and the people having problems are just the symptoms of it. But this always happens. You know, I feel like our conversation just gets going and then like an hour shoots by. You have to come like, I got like another 20 questions. However, before we end over here, can you please be so kind as to tell people where they can find you, what you got coming up, where they can reach out to you if they want to do a keynote or they want to have you come talk to them. What can people find you? What do you got coming up?

What are you excited about? Yeah, absolutely. And before I answered that, I wanted to say the last thing, you just said that made me think of one of my favorite quotes from Krishna-Murdy is that the idea of, you know, the idea of, of being healthy in a sick society is no measure of health. Right? And so if we are in a society that is sick and we're well adjusted to the sick society, that doesn't actually mean that we're healthy.

So yeah, I love that. I want to leave with that. But yeah, where you can find me. So my website is Therapywithvallery.com. My Instagram handle is Therapy underscore Valerie. We also, like I said, I work with Zendo Project. You can find Zendoproject.org. We are a nonprofit.

We function off of donations, so always appreciate support being brought to us that way. I'm also a supervisor at the Kedamine-assisted psychedelic therapy clinic. It's called alchemy therapy.com. Also highly recommend them. Also function on donations. So, yeah, check us out. Zendo Project also has a training coming up for anybody who wants to be more attuned or help with anybody going through a psychedelic experience.

You don't have to want to volunteer with us. This is a training that we've adapted from our volunteer training to just be for anybody who wants to develop their skills of attunement, compassion, learn how to be better partners, better parents, better friends, just better supporters of somebody on a psychedelic or just somebody who's going through life. So that's called the Sitting and Integration Training SIT course.

And then to that is going to be running next time in February on Monday evening, time. It's four evenings, two and a half hours each session. I'll be co-teaching that, so I hope to see people there. Otherwise, you can join our newsletter, follow us on Instagram, Zendo Project, and stay up to date with where we're going to be providing services. If you want to come volunteer with us, we're always appreciating people to come support. And we'll let you know on our Instagram and newsletter where we're going to be, different festivals. thankful. Valerie, hang on briefly afterwards. To everybody within the sound of my voice, please go down

to the show notes. Check out Valerie, see what she's up to, check out the trainings. I think she's doing incredible work, and she's volunteering and helping and making a huge impact in the community. And everybody I talked to has high praise for us. So go down to the show notes, check her out, reach out to her if you have any questions. And that's all we got for today, ladies and gentlemen. I hope you have a beautiful day. Aloha. Thank you so much.