Trump's Trials - An argument for the lead prosecutor in Trump's Georgia election case to step down

Episode Date: January 24, 2024

For this episode of Trump's Trials, host Scott Detrow speaks to lawyer and ethics expert Norman Eisen. We hear why Eisen is calling on special counsel Nathan Wade to resign from his post in the Georgia election interference case. Wade has come under fire for accusations of having an improper relationship with Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis, who hired him to prosecute the case against Trump. Neither Willis nor Wade have made an official statement regarding the accusations. Topics include:- Legal requirements to remove a prosecutor - Ethical issues in the case- Distractions to the Georgia interference case Follow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Trump's Trials from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow. This is a persecution. He actually just stormed out of the courtroom. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Former President Donald Trump appears to be on a clear path to the Republican nomination, almost guaranteeing a rematch of 2020 and almost guaranteeing that in November, voters will be faced with the question of whether or not to put someone looking at 91 criminal counts back in the White House. 13 of those are coming out of the key swing state of Georgia, where Trump pressured election officials to overturn the results.

I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Fulton County District Attorney Fonny Willis brought criminal charges against Trump and others for those alleged efforts. But now Willis is facing scrutiny herself. The judge in the case has set a hearing to look into allegations raised by one of Trump's co-defendants that Willis is in a personal relationship with the outside counsel she appointed to lead the case against Trump. Trump is using those allegations to try and discredit the case, and it is important to say that there's still no concrete evidence of an affair, and also that Willis has not formally denied them.

When we come back, we'll hear from Norman Eisen, a lawyer and ethics expert who previously advised the House Judiciary Committee during the first Trump impeachment. and strength. Solgar Cellular Nutrition is a holistic collection of cellular nutrients formulated to help fight cellular decline and promote cell health. Learn more at cellularnutrition.solgar.com. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. And we're back with Norm Eisen. So you are now calling for Nathan Wade, like law all over the United States, is very clear that those kinds of ancillary matters do not go to the merits of the case. Scott, we've all heard the tape. You just played it. There's powerful evidence here. Scott, we've all heard the tape.

You just played it. There's powerful evidence here. And they're having a relationship. It has nothing to do with the strength of the case against the former president or with any other prejudice to a defendant. It doesn't harm the defendants. So it's no basis legally for disqualification. And yet it has become a distraction. Instead of thinking about that evidence, I just want to find 11,780 votes that didn't exist and that the former president

knew didn't exist. Very serious alleged crimes. We've all become consumed with this relationship. So I think Mr. Wade has done a great job leading the team up until now. He's had a string of successes and a suitable capstone to keep the case moving forward would be for him to say discretion is the better part of valor. I don't have to, but I'm going to step aside so we can return the focus where it should be on the alleged criminality. You said this was an ancillary matter. And again, these are allegations that a clear cut evidence is, is, has not been presented yet. Um, is it ancillary to allegedly steer something like more than $600,000 of taxpayer money to someone you're in a relationship

with, even if they're doing work to earn that money? There is no rule against prosecutors having relationships. And under Georgia law, it does not appear that there's a violation of the disqualification rules. I am not saying that we shouldn't look at it as an ethics matter, as a personnel matter, as a matter of public interest, but it's ancillary to the rules that govern whether Mr. Wade or Ms. Willis stay on this case. We don't want to set up a system where defense lawyers are scrutinizing, you know, are prosecutors using official cars for personal business? Are they taking paperclips home? Those are legally separate considerations. I'm not saying that they don't merit a look. They do. But they don't disqualify the prosecutors here, and they should not slow down this case, which is of paramount public importance. You have a presidential candidate who's accused of abusing his powers, who wants to recover those powers.

You know full well that the defense that Trump has made as he campaigns for office against not just these charges, but all of the criminal charges, all of the previous impeachments and investigations is that this is politically moated. These are Democrats coming to get me because I'm a powerful political candidate. They are trying to stop me from returning to the White House. And this is all corrupt, etc., etc., etc. Does an allegation like this give credence to that Trump argument, at least in the public sphere? Are you concerned that this undercuts the case for not only this case, but all of the prosecutions? Of course, they're going to try to misuse it to confuse things. And nobody's saying it was a wise or smart thing to do, assuming the relationship is proven. There are

credit card bills now that seem to indicate travel to non-official destinations. We know it's going to be spun and distorted. And that's why the wise thing for Wade to do is to step away, not legally required, step away, get the case back on track, dispel those misrepresentations. By the way, it's not a question with the money he's made of a poor return for the taxpayers. They've secured four guilty pleas. The team Wade has led has defeated some of the most distinguished lawyers in the country in a series of court battles. And the case is on track.

They've requested an August trial. Let's not let it get off track. And the way to avoid that happening is for Wade to voluntarily step aside. You know how much, going back over the long list of different investigations into Trump, how much a misstep, whether it's material or not, gets into the public discourse and allows Trump to kind of deny it. And I'm thinking about the text messages between the FBI agents in the beginning of that investigation that led into the Mueller investigation, several other examples as well. What can the DA's office do to course correct here other than,

you know, in your suggestion, Wade, stepping aside? Is there anything else to do to kind of reset and say, this is a serious charge? And as you said, we've already gotten convictions and we are moving forward. I think Wade stepping aside is far preferable to the DA doing so. She was democratically elected. She owes it to her constituents to see this through. The DA stepping aside would be very disruptive, Scott. And there's been no legal violations when it comes to disqualification. So that's step number one. Step number two, total transparency. that's step number one step number two total transparency i think when the da files her motion on february 2nd she should put it all out there that's kind of uh the number one rule of crisis

management is get all the facts get them all out at once and then number three, the judge has to have an evidentiary hearing and double down on the transparency by having scrutiny, kind of belt and suspenders, where he asks the hard questions. He hears from witnesses. He gets documents. And then he rules in a way that lifts the cloud. I think together with a gesture of accountability like Wade stepping away, that really can put us in a situation in mid-February where it's been thoroughly ventilated. There's no more news. And we return to really what is the important issue here. Like in the other three criminal cases, the over 90 felony charges against

the former president, some of the most serious alleged criminal wrongdoing assaulting our democracy that we've seen in the history of our country. That's Norman Eisen, a lawyer and ethics expert. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me, Scott. Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. Keep an eye out for more episodes like this whenever big news happens. And we'll be back later this week with our regular show on Saturday. I'm Scott Detrow. Thank you. grows at you next. Learn more at Concur.com. There are election stories and then there are the backstories. Every day on the Consider This podcast, we take a closer look at the biggest news story of the day and dig into the context behind the headlines. Get a better sense of what's happening and why it's happening in this election and across the nation. Listen to Consider This every day, wherever you get your podcasts.

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