Trump's Trials - As benefits expire, one expert says Trump not funding SNAP is 'extraordinary'

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

NPR's Steve Inskeep asks Cindy Long, a former administrator of the USDA's SNAP program, what recent court rulings mean for the millions of Americans waiting for funds to buy groceries.Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Trump's terms from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow. We're under invasion from within. If you're not going to protect your citizens, President Trump will. We all serve at the pleasure of the president. The golden age of America is upon us. We are in the golden age. Each episode, we bring you NPR's coverage of President Trump acting on his own terms.

And that means sometimes doing things that no American president has tried before. NPR is covering it all in stories like the one you are about to hear. right after this. I'm Stevenson. And I'm Michelle Martin. Millions of Americans are trying to figure out how they will eat this month. The National Food Aid program known as SNAP

ran out of federal money this weekend. The Trump administration had said it would not put more money into the program citing the federal government shutdown. Two federal judges ordered the administration to use emergency money to keep SNAP afloat on Friday, but it's unclear how quickly the administration will act. People who rely on SNAP benefits include Brandy Monovic.

I've cut down eating three meals a day to eating one meal a day. She is a single mom in Colorado, and here's what one meal a day does to her. I don't have as much energy. I'm tired. I'm hungry a lot. I drink water to try to help with the hunger pain. Two of her three children have autism. One has chronic seizures and migraines. My oldest, he just keeps on saying, I don't understand why I can't eat. And then my middle child is causing her to have more migraines. And then my youngest, she's just more, like, agitated, keeps on crying. So she's looking for other ways to feed her family.

I've been trying to find a job, which can be hard with me, having three disabled kids, trying to find care for them. Another SNAP recipient, Susan from Buffalo, New York, receives disability assistance as well as those benefits. She did not want us to use her full name because she doesn't want people to know she relies on the benefits. I'm afraid it's going to kill me. I have other medical conditions that will be affected by poor nutrition. And, you know, I still have things to offer. I'm not ready to die for political reasons. Susan is organizing contributions on social media to help support her fellow senior living residents,

but she says she knows those resources are limited. That's supposed to be what our government is for, to promote the general welfare. And that means everybody, whether they're on one side or the other of the political aisle, this is supposed to be for taking care of people. Some SNAP recipients on this Monday. Let's turn to somebody who knows how the program works. Cindy Long spent decades working at the Department of Agriculture under Republican and Democratic administrations and ended her career there as the head of the agency that oversees government nutrition programs, including SNAP.

Welcome to the program. Good morning. Good morning. I just want to note the benefits just expired over the weekend. What do you think about when you hear somebody, as we just did, who says, I have immediately cut from three meals a day to one? Well, I want to say it's shocking, and it is shocking, because we have never seen SNAP benefits cut off like this. But on the other hand, it's not shocking because the research has been clear for a long time that SNAP helps people avoid food insecurity, and they rely on it for their basic needs. So what do people expect other than people going hungry when SNAP benefits dry up?

And I want to underline also, we heard a single mom there who said, my kids. are also affected. Is that normal if we look across this program? Absolutely. The research shows that parents, the adults in a household try to protect kids first, and so they're the ones that will skip meals, but that the food insecurity can flow down to children as well when things are very tight. And having no snap benefits certainly equates to things being very tight. And I'm thinking about the common study that finds that people who faced a $400 emergency would immediately be out of money. They would not have the money on hand. I suppose we're talking here about people who just do not have a lot of extra food in the pantry or anyplace else. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,

the reason people are on SNAP is because they are economically struggling. So when SNAP benefit go away, they have to scramble to find food from other places. So they're not only going to have to think about, you know, skipping meals, going hungry, but also trading off, you know, am I going to pay for my prescription this month because I need the money to buy food. So we heard from a woman there named Susan who said she doesn't want to give her full name because she doesn't want people to know. She depends on this program. And that immediately makes me think, 42 million people, this might be my neighbor, right? This might be several people at my kid's school. How do I find out and how can I help? I think how can you help is really

the key question, which is, and you've already discussed the fact that demand at food banks and other kinds of emergency food support is going to be going through the roof. So my advice to folks who want to help is to seek those places out in your community. Every community has food banks, food pantries, other kinds of support, and provide to those entities that are going to be seeing, you know, soaring demand if they haven't already. Let me ask about a complaint that is commonly made about government benefits. The complaint is that people are just getting free stuff. They don't really need it, that they could support themselves another way,

and instead they're using taxpayer funds. That's the complaint. Are there some recipients of SNAP benefits who are working jobs, who are doing work, but are just not making enough to support their families? Oh, absolutely. Significant proportions of SNAP households work. You know, 70% of SNAP households include either children

or the elderly or the disabled. But, again, substantial proportions are working. You know, I can't tell you how many people I've met over my career that have talked about how SNAP was a lifeline when they lost a job because of the economy or because, you know, the worker had to take care of a sick child or a sick parents. And it was a bridge that got them through a very difficult time. So the stereotype of folks being on the program for the long term because they would prefer to sit on a couch and not work, in my experience, is just not at all accurate. So let's check the political debate

here. The administration has said we cannot legally spend this money. A couple of federal judges have disagreed and said, actually, you should get started with this money with these emergency funds. Are you familiar with the emergency mechanisms here, given that this hasn't happened before? Did you ever have to contemplate anything like this? And do you think the administration should easily be able to start this program back up? Yeah. We've unfortunately been through a number of government shutdowns in the last several decades. I was at USDA for all of those. And what I can tell you is these specific SNAP contingency funds, while they never had to be used for benefits before, they were always considered available. They were part of the planning as a last resort.

They would be the place that USDA would go to fund this program. So when I first heard that the administration was taking this interpretation that they couldn't be used, it was extraordinary. And it seems that the court have agreed with the prior interpretation that no, indeed, these funds are available and should be used. Is this something you could walk in on a Monday morning and fix, or is it going to take a while to fire things back up? Well, there's going to be some process. The good news is the federal government can very quickly move the funds to the states. The states then have to sort out with a contractor how to get the benefits out quickly, you know, because we're already behind schedule. And to the extent that the benefits need to be adjusted to account for the fact that there's not a full amount of funding available, that may take a little time.

So I believe that when things get turned back on, it will probably vary a little bit from state to state, but the feds can move fast. Good. Cindy Long, formerly of the Department of Agriculture, thanks so much. Thank you. And before we wrap up, a thank you to our NPR Plus supporters who hear each show without sponsored messages and, of course, who help protect independent journalism. If you are not a supporter yet, you can visit plus.npr.org to find out how you can get a ton of podcast perks across dozens of NPR shows, like bonus episodes, exclusive merchandise, and more. Again, that's plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detrow.

Thanks for listening to Trump's Terms from NPR.