Trump's Trials - Colorado Democratic Gov. Jared Polis pushes back on some Trump ideas

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to Gov. Jared Polis about his thoughts on the incoming Trump administration, and the power of pardons. Support NPR and hear every episode sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

I'm Scott Detro and you're listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. We will have really great strong people. Donald Trump is unstoppable. Make America healthy again. The future is going to be amazing. Each episode we bring you NPR's latest coverage of the incoming Trump administration and the people who will run it. Cabinet secretaries, political advisors, military leaders.

NPR is following their agenda and their path to power to bring you stories like the one you're about to hear right after this. I'm Steve Inskeep. We've been talking with one of the more interesting governors in the country right now, Jared Polis of Colorado. As President-elect Trump prepares to take office, Polis joined the governor of Illinois to establish a group to fend off threats of autocracy and strengthen democracy.

Many Coloradans feel under assault from a potential Trump administration, whether they're members of the LGBTQ community, whether they're immigrants. I want to make sure that people know that Colorado is a place for everybody but polis has done something else he's made some statements that dismayed his fellow democrats such as when he spoke favorably of robert f kennedy jr at trump nominee who questions vaccine science we found governor polis in las vegas this week at a meeting of western governors and he offered a mixed view of the new president we don't know exactly what the new administration's

gonna do, right? There's this huge rage. Obviously I'm very critical of 25% tariffs with or any tariff with especially Mexico and Canada are two largest trading partners. This would be devastating for Colorado, devastating for consumers who would be forced to pay 25% more for everyday products,

devastating for housing and construction because a lot of our timber comes from Canada, but also devastating for American manufacturing because these are two of our largest export markets and they would put retaliatory tariffs back on us. So I'll be as outspoken as I can about the damage and harm that would be caused by a trade war. What prompted you to speak positively about Robert F. Kennedy Jr. when he was nominated to lead the Department of Health and Human Services?

Last time Donald Trump was president, he appointed a pharmaceutical lobbyist, Alex Azar, to be head of that agency. In my opinion, that was really the Fox guarding the hen house. Whatever RFK is and isn't, he's certainly not a pharmaceutical lobbyist. So I think having somebody there that has some independence is better than the alternative. Do you believe that RFK Jr., having brought

that independence to the table, will then respond to facts and science? Well, I think that's really what'll hopefully come out during this confirmation process, right? Everybody has personal viewpoints and he has some that are unscientific and inaccurate. Are those personal viewpoints gonna color his leadership at the agency or is he gonna do what he said he's gonna do,

which is really focus on chronic health, nutrition, a lot of these issues where we can find more common ground. Was he right about vaccines in some way? Well, I don't know, you know, he said stuff all over the place. I personally, of course, I'm a big supporter of vaccines as a way to improve public health, to save lives. I'm fully vaccinated. Colorado led the way in COVID vaccination, one of the reasons we have the ninth lowest death rate of any state. But obviously people make their own decisions. I value individual freedom and choice and, you know, in Colorado, uh, it's certainly a choice.

You also were very critical of president Biden for pardoning his son, Hunter. What made you feel you needed to speak out about that? I certainly understand where he's coming from as a father. I'm a father too, but I think it certainly diminishes his legacy to do that for his own son. I mean, I have the power of pardon as governor. I use it judiciously. You know, these are not people that I know

or associate with. They're certainly not my own family that I'm pardoning. So I mean, I look at real reasons for these pardons and I do a handful every year and it's a very serious responsibility that we have. And you know, I don't think it should be taken lightly. Do you assume there is a real risk that the new administration will go after its political

enemies? Is President Trump from time to time has suggested he would? Well, I mean, we have a criminal justice system. So I mean, you know, whether somebody's political viewpoints are pro-Trump or anti-Trump, if they violate the law, they violate the law. I mean, you get prosecuted independent of your political viewpoints. So I believe in a fair and impartial justice system. And I think that's a very important precedent that this country has and it's something

that we should fight to protect. The president-elect said the other day that members of the January 6th committee, which looked into the attack on the Capitol in 2021, should be in jail. He did not say that he would order them to be investigated, but then spoke as if he expected his new FBI director to do that anyway.

Well, I'm not aware of any crimes that those members of Congress that were on that committee did. Obviously, if they did any crime, if they robbed a bank, they would be just as responsible as anybody else, whether they were on that committee or not. So I mean, obviously, the act of being on the committee is an official of active being in Congress. There's no criminal ramifications for that. The president is being urged to pardon large numbers of people.

Liz Cheney comes to mind who was a member of that committee. Mark Milley, the retired general chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. If President Biden called you up and asked you for advice about that, what would you tell him? I know there's a lot of talk about this, but I don't understand exactly what they would be pardoned from. Do you have confidence that the criminal justice system would not produce some show trial or conviction

about nothing, a political conviction. Look, I mean, there could be frivolous lawsuits, right? And this happened sadly in civil law and it shouldn't happen as often in criminal law because we have a higher burden of proof, obviously, beyond a reasonable doubt. It sounds like you have confidence that the system will hold. I believe in the American justice system, absolutely. We should always aspire to make it better and more impartial and less political, and I hope that we continue to improve our justice system.

Governor, thanks. Appreciate your time. Thank you. And before we wrap up, a thank you to our NPR Plus supporters, who hear each show without sponsored messages and of course who help protect independent journalism. If you are not a supporter yet, you can visit plus.npr.org to find out how you can get a ton of podcast perks across dozens of NPR shows, like bonus episodes, exclusive merchandise, and more.

Again, that's plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detro. Thanks for listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. This message comes from Grammarly. 231. That's the average number of apps used by many companies. This leads to a lot of context and tab switching which can drain employee focus costing your company. Grammarly can help because it uses AI that works in over 500,000 apps and websites. Join over 70,000 teams who save an average of $500,000 per employee per year using Grammarly. Go to Grammarly.com slash Enterprise to learn more.