Trump's Trials - DOJ threatens legal action against some cities and states over immigration policies

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

The Justice Department says cities and states risk legal action if they fail to comply with federal immigration law. Democratic leaders are pushing back, saying their policies break no laws. Then, NPR's Leila Fadel speaks with Washington state Gov. Bob Ferguson after he received a letter from Attorney General Pam Bondi threatening criminal prosecution for impeding immigration enforcement.Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

You're listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. I'm Scott Destro. We're going to be doing all sorts of things. Nobody ever thought was even possible. President Trump has brought back string to the White House. We can't just ignore the president's desires. This will be an entirely different country in a short period of time. Every episode of Trump's terms, we bring you NPR's latest coverage of the 47th president.

With a focus on actions and policies he is pursuing on his own terms and in the process, taking the presidency into uncharted territory. Today's story starts right after this. I'm Leila Faldon. For months, the Trump administration has been pressuring some states and cities led by Democrats to change their immigration policies. These are places that have adopted so-called sanctuary laws which bar the use of local resources to support federal agents with immigration enforcement. The Justice Department says these policies were encountered to the president's immigration crackdown and that legal action could be next. NPR political reporter Elena Moore is here to give us an update on this. Good morning, Elena. Good morning, Michelle. So it sounds like there's been an escalation between the Justice Department and these blue cities and states. What's happening here?

Well, this all connects back to an executive order Trump signed in April, which asked federal agencies to identify jurisdictions that they say obstruct the enforcement of federal immigration laws. It also threatens possible federal funding cuts if changes aren't made. Fast forward to the beginning of the month, the DOJ released a list of 13 states. in 18 cities, all run by Democrats, saying they're standing in the way of immigration enforcement. Since then, Attorney General Pam Bondi has really put these places on notice. You better be abiding by our federal policies and with our federal law enforcement. Because if you aren't, we're going to come after you. So how have state and local leaders responded to this? Well, we started to see some pretty forceful pushback this week from a handful of state and local leaders

who disputed the sanctuary city label and defended their own policies saying the administration's actions were unjust. One of the strongest rebukes, Michelle, came from Boston's mayor, Michelle Wu, during a press conference on Tuesday. Unlike the Trump administration, Boston follows the law. And Boston will not back down from who we are and what we stand for. And this came after the DOJ sent letters to Wu and other leaders demanding they change their policies, you know, a deadline of Tuesday. And while we're still waiting to see how all 30 jurisdictions on that list respond, we do know that some state leaders like Washington's Governor Bob Ferguson have vowed to defend their policies in court if needed. In the America that I love have taught my

children to revere, we resolve our differences peacefully through public discourse and if necessary through the courts. So now the administration and some of these leaders are all saying that they're gearing up for possible legal action? How might this play out in the courts? Yeah, well, I mean, pretty soon after Trump's return to office, his administration started taking legal action. And one of the first cases we saw was a lawsuit against Chicago. But the judge in that state threw out the suit saying the government didn't demonstrate any violation of federal law. But that's not the only case in the works. You know, the DOJ is also suing New York City and Los Angeles using similar arguments. And on the other end, there are several dozen cities and counties across the

country that have also signed on to a lawsuit challenging the administration's efforts to withhold federal funding over this issue. And the administration is, I think people understand her making this part of a kind of a broader law and order message. You want to talk more about that? Yeah, well, immigration, as we know, was a central issue in Trump's campaign. And he promised to carry out mass deportations if elected. So this effort by the DOJ is certainly one. element of that big pledge. But more broadly, you know, Trump has made issues like crime and safety, just big priorities. And that's once again meant picking fights with liberal cities. Just last week, you know, we saw that in Washington, D.C., where we are right now, when Trump deployed

National Guard troops to the city and declared a safety crisis, all while signaling, Michelle, that other cities could be next. That is NPR political reporter Elena Moore. Elena, thank you. Thank you. So as Elena just said, one of the letters sent by U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi was addressed to Bob Ferguson. He's the Democratic governor of Washington State, and he forcibly pushed back against the federal government's demands during a press conference on Tuesday. Let me be very clear. Washington State will not be bullied or intimidated by threats and legally baseless accusations. When I spoke with Governor Ferguson Wednesday, he rejected the idea that his state's policies get in the way of immigration enforcement.

What we did was in 2019, the Washington State Legislature adopted a bipartisan law that says, hey, for local law enforcement, their focus is on local law enforcement. It's not the job of local law enforcement to do the job of the federal government when it comes to federal immigration enforcement. That's the job of the federal government. And you're referring to the Keep Washington Working Act? That's correct. And does that act limit assistance to the federal government when it comes to enforcing immigration? immigration efforts? Yeah, I mean, our law is carefully balanced. So, for example, there is an exception within the Keep Washington Working Act for our Department of Corrections, for example.

The Department of Corrections does notify federal immigration authorities if someone who's undocumented and has been convicted of a felony is being released. That is part of our process here. What the Keep Washington Working Act does preclude is a local police officer or a local state trooper from cooperating with some ice rate, for example, at a business. We do not cooperate with ice in any way in that fashion whatsoever. And why? That's not our job, right? We have to focus on law enforcement right here.

It's not our job to do federal immigration enforcement for them. And that is especially true right now with the outrageous way in which that immigration enforcement is happening every day. We see it on the news, unmarked vehicles, masked agents, picking people off the streets, people being disappeared. That is all totally outrageous and to me is unrecognizable as an American. So it's also worth pointing out in Pam Bondi's letter to me, she cites no law that says we're in violation of federal law. She cites nothing. It is all posturing. And as a lawyer, it's clear to me that our law is lawful. We follow all applicable federal laws. And that's why I don't think she's going

to challenge us in court because she would lose. Now, in that letter that you received, Attorney General Bondi said, quote, individuals operating under the color of law using their official position to obstruct federal immigration enforcement efforts and facilitating or inducing illegal immigration may be subject to criminal charges. How did you take that? Well, I took that in exactly the way that she meant it, which is a threat to file criminal charges against me and or local police officers or local judges. who don't bend the need to the Trump administration on this issue, and that is, to put it very mildly, that's breathtaking. Are you willing to risk retaliation from the Justice Department that could include

prosecution and imprisonment? Well, I mean, of course, right, I have a job to do, which is to defend my state and the people of my state, and to do that in a lawful way. But I am reminded, you know, back in 2017, when I was the Attorney General of Washington State, I was the first Attorney General to challenge the Trump administration of court. And I remember picking up my then. seven or eight year old daughter from school and walking her home, and she'd heard something at school that I might be in trouble because I was doing this with the president. And she asked if I'd be in trouble for doing that. And I told her, Katie, look, we live in this great country where your dad can challenge a president, say things about a president, and stop him from doing

something illegal, and your dad does not get in trouble. And that's not how we resolve our political differences. Look, I, you know, I'd have to have a different conversation with my now 17-year-old daughter, Katie, about that. That's what makes it so breathtaking to me, is a U.S. Attorney General threatening a governor, and by the way, other state officials, with prison time for not bending the knee to their agenda when it comes to federal immigration enforcement. Criminal prosecution is not the only risk here. I mean, I'm in Washington, D.C., where the federal government has sent in the National Guard. That could happen in your state. There's also the possibility of losing federal funding, which I think makes up, what, 20 percent? About 28% of our state budget is federal dollars. That's correct. So with that, I mean, are you ready for the potential loss of that funding or National Guard coming into your state? And what would you do then?

Obviously, we are preparing for all eventualities, whether it's potential National Guard. And what's happening, by the way, in D.C. is truly outrageous or the withholding of federal funds. It's all too common right now, the threat of the federal government to withhold funds on all sorts of issues, education funding, public health, FEMA funds, you name it. But at the end of the day, we just can't compromise our values. And that's pretty fundamental to me as governor for the people of Washington State. Governor Bob Ferguson of Washington State. Thank you for taking the time to speak with us. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Before we wrap up a reminder, you can find more coverage of the Trump administration on the NPR

politics podcast, where you can hear NPR's political reporters Break down the day's biggest political news with new episodes every weekday afternoon. And thanks, as always, to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without sponsor messages. You can learn more at plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detrow. Thanks for listening to Trump's terms from NPR.