Trump's Trials - Elon Musk is leaving the federal government. What's next for DOGE?

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

Elon Musk is leaving his role as the guiding force behind the Department of Government Efficiency initiative Friday after facing legal setbacks, clashes with Cabinet members and little evidence to support claims of savings or government efficiency. Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

You're listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. I'm Scott Denchman. We're going to be doing all sorts of things nobody ever thought was even possible. President Trump has brought back strength to the White House. We can't just ignore the president's desires. This will be an entirely different country in a short period of time. Every episode of Trump's Terms, we bring you NPR's latest coverage of the 47th president, with a focus on actions and policies he is pursuing on his own terms and in the process, taking the presidency into uncharted territory.

Today's story starts right after this. I'm Tonya Mosley, co-host of Fresh Air. At a time of sound bites and short attention spans, our show is all about the deep dive. We do long-form interviews with people behind the best in film, books, TV, music, and journalism. Here our guests open up about their process and their lives in ways you've never heard before. Listen to the Fresh Air podcast from NPR and WHYY. On the Indicator from Planet Money podcast, we're here to help you make sense of the

economic news from Trump's tariffs. It's called in game theory a trigger strategy, or sometimes called grim trigger, which sort of has a cowboy-esque ring to it. To what exactly a sovereign wealth fund is. For insight every weekday, listen to NPR's The Indicator from Planet Money. I'm Steve Inskeep. Elon Musk says he is leaving his government role as the leader of the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE. NPR's Stephen Fowler has been covering DOGE all along, and he's on the line. Stephen, good morning. Good morning.

Okay, does Musk stepping away change anything about what the Department of Government Efficiency will do? Not really. I mean, he's been touted by President Trump and others as the leader in Doge. In court, lawyers for the government has said he's not and they've downplayed his role. But the reality is much of the Doge work,

I mean, the parts that haven't been reversed or held up in court, have always been carried out by people not named Elon Musk. These allies are embedded in agencies more permanently. Many of them are full on federal employees and they're more focused on specific goals at those agencies. Stephen, I followed all your reporting on this. A lot of Doge's claims of savings and changes were illusory or have been reversed, as you

just mentioned, but they're still out there acting. So what could they continue to do? Well, there have been a few areas DOJ has been successful. Data collections, one. There's been this emphasis on knocking down data silos and making massive data sets to be used, especially for Trump's immigration agenda.

There's also dozens of lawsuits that allege that data collection is being done illegally. Then there's the push to further downsize the federal workforce and reshape who gets to work in federal government. But the main force behind implementing that part of Trump's agenda is the Office of Management and Budget and its head Russ Boat. So why would Elon Musk leave now? Well, he says his scheduled time is up. He's talking about his

role as a special government employee, time limited to 130 working days. It's been 130 days since Trump took office and Musk took on this role. Got it. But he likely could have stayed longer, but politically Musk is an avatar for the unpopular things Doge and the second Trump administration have done. He's taken a lot of heat as Congress is working on trying to pass Trump's big, beautiful bill and other legislative priorities and we pivot to the midterms, there have been concerns by Republicans that Musk

is not helpful. I think a lot of people who own Tesla stock didn't think he was being very helpful to them. Well, that's the other part of it. Musk runs multiple big businesses that have suffered because of his split attention and that unpopularity, especially Tesla. That's his main source of wealth. Tesla drivers sold their cars, stores were vandalized, profits cratered, and there were reports that the board was considering

replacing him. Oh, it's like they threatened to fire the guy who was really openly joyful about firing people. I'm thinking of the moment when he's stood on stage waving around a chainsaw. Now that just a little time has passed, how is that metaphor working out for him? Well, Steve, that chainsaw doesn't really have any teeth. I mean, Musk had these lofty savings goals of cutting $2 trillion from before joining the government to a fraction of that to around $150 billion. Our reporting has found those claims are inaccurate, overstated, and rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of how the federal budget works. Also, Doge's

other signature efforts, like cutting the workforce, have hit repeated legal snags, driven in part by Musk's public statements that have been used to claim those changes broke the law. Put another way, there's little evidence that Elon Musk has done much to make the government more efficient. Cutting to the facts, NPR's Stephen Fowler. He's part of NPR's team of reporters covering efforts to remake the federal government. Stephen, thanks so much. Thank you. Before we wrap up, a reminder, you can find more coverage of the Trump administration

on the NPR Politics Podcast, where you can hear NPR's political reporters break down the day's biggest political news with new episodes every weekday afternoon. And thanks as always to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without sponsored messages. You can learn more at plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detro. Thanks for listening to Trump's terms from NPR. Great conversation makes for a great party. But how do you ask the questions that really make the room come alive? Well, you're at life kit. We've got you. What is a path you almost took but didn't? ask the questions that really make the room come alive. Well, here at LifeKit, we've got you. What is a path you almost took but didn't?

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