Trump's Trials - How much does Trump's MAGA base care about the Epstein files?

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

NPR's Sacha Pfeiffer speaks with political analyst and pollster Frank Luntz about how Trump's most loyal supporters think about the controversy surrounding the so-called Epstein files. Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

I'm Scott Detro and you're listening to Trump's terms from NPR. We're going to be doing all sorts of things nobody ever thought was even possible. President Trump has brought back strength to the White House. We can't just ignore the president's desires. This will be an entirely different country in a short period of time. Each episode we bring you the latest news about the 47th president and the policy changes he is pursuing on his own terms. We know from experience that means challenging precedent, busting norms, and pushing against set ideas about what the federal government can and can't do.

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Our next season is launching in just a few months, so get us your questions now by emailing howto at npr.org or calling 1-800-424-2935. The Fantastic Four are back again in a new movie, and it's an eye-popping good time. We've seen the story before, but this time the vibe is different. It's brighter, set in a retro future with flying cars. Plus it stars Pedro Pascal and works for casual viewers and nerds alike. We'll tell you why on Pop Culture Happy Hour.

Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. You have your job, but you also have a life. And you're not just one thing. Neither is the Here and Now Anytime podcast. Every weekday, we break down the biggest story of the day and something else, like a new trend everyone's talking about. It's here and now anytime, a daily podcast from NPR and WBUR. I'm Sasha Pfeiffer. How is the Trump administration's handling of the Epstein files playing among

the president's base? We're going to put that question to Frank Luntz. He's a longtime political analyst and pollster. Frank, good morning. Frank Luntz, political analyst and pollster, Good morning. Frank, all week long, we've been hearing media headlines, right-wing influencers, prominent Republicans like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Nancy Mace saying they're upset about the Epstein files, want them released. But it is not clear to us how much this matters among his his MAGA base based on your years of

Focus groups and polls with Trump supporters. How much do they care about this? I've done more than two dozen focus groups specifically on Donald Trump's behavior Going back over the last ten years and this guy is Teflon But this may be different and I want to set the context guy is Teflon. But this may be different. And I want to set the context. This legislation that deals with tax cuts, budget cuts, changes to Medicaid, wasteful Washington spending, that is the priority among voters. But I've seen this before. Whenever you have a story of a salacious nature, such as the Epstein controversy, people say that they prioritize the things that they think will generate

respect for their point of view, but what they do is they still pay attention. So the president has to accept the fact that even among Republicans, among his own supporters, they are listening, they are watching, but I can tell you that this is not their priority. They care more about the legislation than they do this scandal. So you're saying they're paying attention, but what Trump cares about is will it affect their votes for me? So would some MAGA voters not vote for Trump if they find out that there's something damning about him in the Epstein files? Well, they're never going to have another chance to vote for him again. He's done. The

question now is, do they vote for or against Republicans next year in the midterm elections? Obviously he wants to keep a majority. And I will assert having watched this person have four different cases against him, 91 felony accounts, still getting re-elected as president, that he has a Teflon that is unshakable. That said, this is going to be an irritant and at the very moment that House Republicans and Senate Republicans need to be talking about that legislation, need to be explaining to voters why they should support it, which they don't. This is very dangerous for them because it causes voters to think about other issues,

other concerns, and it's a distraction that's very dangerous. So, as you said, Trump is not allowed to run again, but there are many Republican lawmakers looking at the midterms thinking, I don't want to have to field questions from this for my constituents. For people who do not like Donald Trump, there are lots of other things over the years they think people shouldn't like him for. But why among Trump supporters would the Epstein issue be the one thing that makes them think, I'm not sure about this, I don't like this?

Because they demand the truth from the president. It's one of the reasons why people began to support Trump back in 2015, 2016. They felt like they weren't getting it from the opponents. Donald Trump has set a level of truth. Now we know that- They think this is the first thing they haven't heard the truth about from Trump? Actually, yes. And that's something very important. That we know that Donald Trump stretches the truth, breaks the truth on press conferences, and debates. But his own people were prepared to support him.

But when you have some of these major Trump advocates, these MAGA advocates saying that they need to see more, they need to hear more, that this is not enough, that is a problem for the president, but it's still only a problem and it's not a threat to his credibility at this moment, other than being a horrible distraction at the very instance when he needs to be talking about legislation that was just passed. You are correct. I want to emphasize, you're correct to raise this issue that it will have an impact on the 2026 election. But at this point, that impact is to distract Republicans from focusing on the things that

voters care about most. As we know, the House Speaker, Mike Johnson, sent Congress home early to avoid a vote on the Epstein files. Once they come back, and if they have to vote on this later, will MAGA supporters have forgotten about it by then? I don't believe so. We have to see what comes out. There are going to be these hearings in August.

So by the time they come back in September, it's gonna be front and center. If this is a distraction, the administration does not want to be fielding this, but it is not a voter issue at this point. Danielle Pletka If Johnson's delay of the vote isn't enough to make MAGA supporters forget about this, what do you think Trump could do to make this go away? Richard Johnson In the end, he'll have to release files. In the end, he'll have to encourage or instruct the Justice Department to make public everything that it knows about this issue.

Can you think of anything that might be in those files that could get revealed that would make MAGA supporters turn against Trump? They don't like being lied to. And it's one of the reasons why they came to him in 2015 and 2016. And I know how that sounds to the viewers of NPR. But remember, the Trump voter has a different definition of trust and truth than those who voted against him. If they believe that their faith in the president was undeserved and was ignored.

They will be very angry, but they don't feel that way right now. They simply have questions. And what we are seeing is those questions being put forward and the public saying, I want to know more. And before we wrap up, a thank you to our NPR Plus guests. Thank you, Frank. Thank you. Thank you. And before we wrap up, a thank you to our NPR Plus supporters, who hear each show without

sponsored messages and, of course, who help protect independent journalism. If you are not a supporter yet, you can visit plus.npr.org to find out how you can get a ton of podcast perks across dozens of NPR shows, like bonus episodes, exclusive merchandise, and more. Again, that's plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detro. Thanks for listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. Maybe you're wondering, how do I escape quicksand? How do I break up with my dentist?

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