Trump's Trials - Is President Trump's MAGA coalition splintering over handling of the Epstein case?

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

President Trump called Republicans who demand the release of more Epstein probe details "weaklings." NPR asks GOP strategist Alex Conant whether it's splintering Trump's MAGA coalition.Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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The president wants fan speculation about famous people's connections to Jeffrey Epstein, an investor in socialite who was also a convicted sex offender. Now Trump faces questions after failing to produce revelations. Attorney General Pam Bondi teased the release of the files back in February. She answered a question from John Roberts of Fox News. The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients? Will that really happen? It's sitting on my desk right now to review.

That's been a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. Sitting on my desk. After that, several far-right influencers were invited to the White House for what they were told would be an early look at the files. They walked out holding binders labeled Epstein files phase one and declassified. I'm here outside the West Wing and look at what we got today. The Epstein files, baby. Let's make America safe again. Once they looked in the binders, some were disappointed.

Last month, Trump's one-time ally, Elon Musk, suggested Trump himself was in the Epstein files and quote, that's why they haven't been released, unquote. Musk gave no evidence of this. But then the Justice Department said there was no client list, no blackmail evidence, and no more files to be released. Earlier this month, Bondi was asked to explain why she had said the list was on her desk. I was asked a question about the client list and my response was, it's sitting on my desk to be reviewed, meaning the file along with the JFK, MLK files as well. That's what I meant by that.

That explanation, though, seemed to make Trump supporters even more suspicious, including one of the president's longtime defenders, the talk show host Tucker Carlson. The fact that the U.S. government, the one that I voted for, refused to take my question seriously and instead said, case closed, shut up, conspiracy theorist, was too much for me. Then on Wednesday, Trump lashed out at his own supporters for fixating on the Epstein case.

It's all been a big hoax. It's perpetrated by the Democrats. And some stupid Republicans and foolish Republicans fall into the net. And so they try and do the Democrats work. The Democrats are good for nothing other than these hoaxes. According to a new Quinnipiac poll, nearly two-thirds of voters disapprove of the Trump administration's handling of the Epstein files, including more than one-third of Republicans. So let's talk more about that, about how this is playing out with Trump's base. We've called Republican strategist Alex Conant for this. He's with us now. He

served as communications director for Marco Rubio's 2016 presidential campaign and he's now a partner with Firehouse Strategies. Good morning Alex, thanks for joining us again. Good morning, good to be back with you. Just a quick, what's your quick take on how President Trump and his administration are handling this issue? Well not well, clearly. I mean this is not what they want to be talking about. I What's your quick take on how President Trump and his administration are handling this issue? Well not well, clearly.

I mean, this is not what they want to be talking about. I think you see their frustration starting to bubble over in the president's tone and his lengthy tweets earlier this week where he was attacking his own supporters for fixating on this. Look, the president wants to be talking about his wins in the Middle East. He wants to be selling his tax reform bill. He wants to be talking about his success at the border, and just as you just reported, he had two more wins in Congress last night, one in the House, one in the Senate. That's what he wants to be talking about heading into

this fall. Instead, his reporters are fixated on this decade-old scandal that he can't ever make them happy on, and it's deeply frustrating to him. And so he's attacking his own base, which only drives it more, of course, now you see Democrats piling on, proposing congressional hearings into all this. It's become a distraction that is threatening to take over parts of his agenda. It's a real problem for them. So this whole thing about slamming his supporters, calling them stupid, saying they're doing the Democrats' dirty work for them. In one of those social media posts, he said he didn't want their support anymore.

Unusual to be slamming your supporters like this, but is this useful in any way in tamping this down? It's very unusual for Trump. I mean, one of the things that has really marked his political career is that he never allows any daylight between himself and his base. You think back to the first term where he took so much heat over immigration, the enforcement at the border,

vis-a-vis families, and then so much heat during the pandemic with masks and the way he treated Fauci. And he always ends up siding with his base. And so I can't think of another time where he's attacked his own base like this for disagreeing with him on something. And I think it's just evidence that he is just so frustrated that they want to talk about something that's not helpful politically. And he wants to talk about things

that do help him politically with independence, with moderates heading into midterms next year. So can you do me a favor and back up for a second, because there are some people who are going to be listening to this and be saying, what is this about even really? So why do you think this issue resonates so much with Trump's base? Because it clearly does. Well, look, I think there's a lot of political opponents of his base that have been kind of wrapped up in Epstein scandals over the years just through their social connections or business connections with him. Obviously, the way that Epstein died was very suspicious

in the minds of the base. And there's become all this media built up around it. Books have been written, podcasts, TV shows about it, and people have just gotten really wrapped up in the scandal thinking that there's a lot more to it. Excuse me, but aren't people in his own administration wrapped up in it? I mean, people in the sense of being part of making this a thing, like his FBI directors, deputy FBI director, his deputy FBI director. I mean, absolutely. Now, to be clear, like they peddled a lot of conspiracies, this being one of them, but

then they get put in charge of the FBI. And I think that the other issue here is that there's just a real mismanagement of expectations with his base vis-a-vis what the administration is actually able to deliver. I mean, in part because he put in the FBI director and the deputy FBI director, in part because they promised they'd get to the bottom of the Epstein issues. So, the Eon Musk role in this, he's been posting about this a lot this week. Obviously, I think most people know they had a falling out, but at one point saying, if this is all a hoax, why is Ghislaine Maxwell, the associate of Epstein's, why is she in prison for sex

trafficking connected Epstein? Is Musk a part of this or is he kind of an ancillary character because it already was a big thing? Well I think he and lots of other people are piling on at this point. I think anyone who has an axe to grind with the president views this as a scab that they can pick at because they know that Trump doesn't have good answers at this point because in his mind and the Justice Department's mind they have released everything on this that they are legally allowed to release and their hands are really tied moving forward and yet it's not enough for people like Musk and his opponents.

So before we let you go, does this have legs? Well, we'll see. Nobody changes the topic better than Donald Trump and he has a lot to talk about these days. That said, his base is not going to ever be satisfied on this unless they're able to somehow provide more information. And why not though? I mean, you have about 20 seconds. Why not? Why can't they be satisfied? Just because they fund... Look, you can't believe... People who are so invested in an

idea in a conspiracy, you can't convince them that they're wrong without evidence. And the administration is having trouble providing evidence that they're wrong. That is Alex Konat. He's a Republican strategist with Firehouse Strategies. Alex, thanks so much. Thank you. Before we wrap up, a reminder,

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