Trump's Trials - Leaked call transcripts reveal U.S. envoy coaching Putin aide on pitching peace plan

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

Leaked call transcripts between special envoy Steve Witkoff and a Putin advisor could derail President Trump's progress, as they show Witkoff coaching Moscow on pitching a Russia-friendly peace plan.Then, NPR's Steve Inskeep talks with former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Bridget Brink about Ukraine's posture toward a peace deal.Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

You're listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. I'm Scott Debtrow. We're under invasion from within. If you're not going to protect your citizens, President Trump will. We all serve at the pleasure of the president. The golden age of America is upon us. We are in the golden age. Every episode of Trump's terms, we bring you NPR's latest coverage of the 47th president.

With a focus on actions and policies he is pursuing on his own terms and in the process, taking the presidency into uncharted territory. Today's story starts right after this. I'm Steve Inskeep. And I'm Michelle Martin. President Trump's latest Russia-Ukraine peace plan appeared to be making headway, with Secretary of State Marco Rubio praising it and special envoy Steve Whitkoff planning a visit to Moscow. Then we learned something about the process leading to this moment.

Bloomberg published a transcript of a phone call between Steve Whitkoff and an advisor to Russian President Vladimir Putin. The new service says it listened to her recording and made that transcript. NPR has not independently confirmed the story. The transcript gives insight into how Whitkoff encouraged Russia to manage President Trump and includes his suggestion to develop a peace plan. Coming up, we'll hear from the most recent U.S. ambassador to Ukraine who resigned earlier this year. We start with that Bloomberg report.

We're going to go now to NPRS. Eleanor Beardsley, who is following all this from Ukraine's capital, Kiev. Good morning, Eleanor. Good morning, Michelle. So when did this call happen and who was on it? Well, it took place in mid-October. It was between envoy Steve Whitkoff and Yuri Ushakov, who is a advisor to Russian president of Vladimir Putin. And it was right after Trump sanctioned Russia's two biggest oil companies. And Whitkoff is right off his success in the Middle East and suggests there could be a similar deal between Russia and Ukraine. And he encourages Ushikov to get Putin to call Trump, praise his Mideast peace deal, and flatter him.

Whitkoff also mentions Zelensky is coming to the White House soon. He suggests a call with the Russians beforehand. And we know now, Michelle, that that call from Putin the day before, for Zelensky's arrival, ended any hope Ukrainians had of Tomahawk missiles, and Michelle, there's a second recording and transcript of Ushikov with fellow Russian Kirill Dimitriev, Putin's economic advisor, talking about that 28-point U.S. Russian peace plan from last week that was seen as favoring Russia and has now been heavily amended. It seems it was the Russian plan, after all, pushed by these two men, though we cannot confirm that the Trump administration

did not make changes. But in the call, economic advisor Demetriov even says, according to Bloomberg, quote, I don't think they'll take exactly our version, but at least it'll be as close to it as possible. As close to it as possible. Okay. So how are Ukrainians taking this in? Well, I spoke with Ukrainian Parliament Member and Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Olexandra Marejko. He actually called for Whitkoff to be replaced six months ago because what he says is his incompetence and complete lack of knowledge of Ukraine and the origins of the war. So he's not surprised about the latest. Let's listen. We know that we're dealing with people in the anti-Russia of President Trump who take pro-Russian position, unfortunately, and we knew it long before that.

But we have to deal with the team of President Trump, no matter who they are. And what does President Trump have to say about this? Well, on Air Force One, Trump didn't address concerns that Whitkoff may be pro-Russian, but he brushed off concerns about his methods. I haven't heard it, but I heard it was standard negotiations. and I wouldn't imagine he's saying the same thing to Ukraine because each party has to give it to him. You know, Trump's reaction shocked Marejko more. He believes Trump should remove Wittkoff because he says

he is discrediting his administration and the U.S. in the eyes of the world. So do you have a sense of, I know this news just broke, but is there any sense of how these revelations might affect this negotiation? Could it derail things? Well, Moreshko says not on the Ukrainian side, but he says Putin will reject any peace plan. that lets Ukraine survive as a sovereign state. Here he is again. He thinks that he is winning and he cannot stop because any peace might cause domestic problems

for him. He believes that he might lose power because of that. Now, Putin-envoy Dmitriev calls the Bloomberg leaks fake, while another Russian official said they were leaked to, quote, hinder U.S.-Russia relations. That is, Eleanor Beardsley for NPR in Kiev. Eleanor, thank you so much. You're welcome. Now let's turn to Bridget Brink. She was ambassador to Slovakia in President Trump's first term, then the ambassador to Ukraine under President Biden, and for a little while, under President Trump. She resigned from the Ambassador's Post in May of this year citing concerns over Trump's handling of the war.

She's now running for Congress in Michigan as a Democrat. Ambassador, good morning. Hi, Steve. Good morning. Thanks for having me on. Glad you're with us. Noting again that NPR has not confirmed the details of the Bloomberg report, but they've published a transcript. And it shows Steve Whitkoff doing roughly three things. He says, let's make a peace plan that you Russians like. He says, clearly you're going to get the Donbos region in eastern Ukraine as part of this. And he also says, let's get you on the line with President Trump before he meets President Zelensky. And here is how to flatter my boss.

What do you make of all that? Well, it's normal for negotiators to talk to both sides in any negotiation. But what's not normal is the way in which the U.S. negotiator, which Steve Weikoff, is advising the Russian side, as if Russia is not the aggressor in the largest threat to peace and security in Europe since World War II. I led negotiations with Russia over the course of my career. And it's usual for any U.S. negotiator to articulate the U.S. position, to advance U.S. interests. And that's nowhere to be found in this transcript. But not advancing U.S. interests, but just on the matter of advice. I mean, the Russian asks for advice.

Whitkoff gives some advice. Here's how you handle Donald Trump. I can see how that seems a little weird, but wouldn't you like the Russians to be taking American advice? I think the main advice that I would have given in that situation is that the most important issue for America is ensuring that this war ends and doesn't restart. So we all agree that the war should end. but it matters to us how it ends. I spent three years under Putin's missiles and drones as our ambassador there. And every night, I and the rest of the country was awoken by air raid sirens as Putin launched

missiles and drones at the capital hitting apartments, playgrounds, churches. And I witnessed the truly horrific war crimes that were committed by Putin and by Russia. And when President Trump kept appeasing Putin, I knew I couldn't stay. I had to resign and speak out, but also run for Congress because I believe we need to fight for freedom and democracy at home and abroad. And we cannot be in America that is undermining our own democracy, destabilizing our economy, taking away health care and making life harder and more expensive for our families. Well, given that you experience those missile strikes, maybe you have thoughts about this. Steve Whitkoff says, according to this transcript published by Bloomberg, quote,

I told the president that you, that the Russian Federation has always wanted a peace deal. That's my belief. I told the president, I believe that. Steve Whitkoff said to the Russian official, do you believe the Russian Federation wants a peace deal? Absolutely not. There is no indication that Russia wants a deal. And that's the whole point, that peace at any price, which is what appears to be our position as the United States, is not peace. It's appeasement.

And appeasing a dictator never has and never will achieve a lasting peace. We know that from 1938. Trump promised to end the war on day one, but it's been a year. And Putin has only escalated. Just two nights ago, he launched a major attack with almost 500 drones and also missiles that killed seven people in the capital and around the country in Ukraine. So any peace, any deal is only going to be in our interests if it achieves a last, and enduring peace, and that is going to require security for Ukraine and justice as well.

Well, I'm thinking this through. It does appear that the United States has pressed Ukraine to accept that they've lost some territory. Maybe they don't give it up formally, but they accept that they've lost it. The United States has pressed Ukraine to accept the idea that they have some security guarantee that is short of being a member of NATO. So the Ukrainians have been pushed to some concessions. Do you see any sign that Russia has been willing to give up a single thing that they've been demanding since the start of the war? There is no sign. And in fact, the original agreement, the 28 points, which, as we know from the media,

has now been negotiated to a smaller number of points. But the original agreement, that one that sounds like it was the topic of the conversation with our negotiator and with the Russians, was Putin's dream, wish list that was said even by our Secretary of State. So there is no indication that the Russians have given up on their over. overarching goal, which is actually to undermine Ukraine's sovereignty and also undermine the security architecture that has kept Europe and America peaceful since World War II. I'm curious if there is something real, though, in the way that Steve Whitkoff describes things in this October call.

So this is a number of weeks ago. He's talking in the most general terms in a five-minute phone call about the peace deal. And he says, I kind of summarize here, you guys get the Donbos, eastern Ukraine. And maybe there's going to be some kind of land swaps, and we're going to get this done. Is that actually the outline of a peace deal? I believe the peace deal needs to first consider security, that the security issue is the most important. That's the most important to Ukraine, but it's really also the most important to us.

What we should be thinking about is how do we make sure that this war can't restart? As Reagan would say, trust but verify. History has shown that we cannot trust Putin or Russia. Russia. And so the first question is how to stop this war and ensure that it stops for good. Wait a minute. So you're saying the administration seems to be focused a little more on who gets what real estate. But the actual question is, how do you make another war impossible? Exactly. Do you think, though, that the Ukrainians will have to give up some territory

in practice, if not in legal fact, as a part of this settlement? I think that the focus really has to be on how to make sure that this war does not restart. And then all other questions, territory and other questions, can be considered. But the most important one is security, because that's the most important one for the United States. We do not want to see a repeat of the last century of wars in Europe. And what Putin is doing is laying the groundwork so that the war not only won't end, but will restart either in another year, five years, 10 years. You said at the beginning that you felt that Whitkoff failed to articulate the U.S. interest here. He talked about what Russia might want, what a deal might look like, how to flatter Donald

Trump, but not about the U.S. interest. In a few sentences, what is the fundamental U.S. interest, what the U.S. needs out of this agreement, if anything? I think fundamentally it's to ensure that the war cannot restart. And there's a way to do that, but the way to do it is to turn up the pressure on Putin and Russia by ramping up sanctions, using the $300 billion in sovereign assets in Europe to buy more weapons, create U.S. jobs, and allow Ukraine to defend itself now and in the future, and also work with Europe, on a security guarantee that we also can support. Bridget Brink is the former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine.

She's now running for Congress in Michigan. Ambassador, thanks for your time. Thank you, Steve. Before we wrap up a reminder, you can find more coverage of the Trump administration on the NPR Politics Podcast, where you can hear NPR's political reporters break down the day's biggest political news

with new episodes every weekday afternoon. And thanks, as a very weekday afternoon. always to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without sponsor messages. You can learn more at plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detrow. Thanks for listening to Trump's terms from NPR.