Trump's Trials - Military members fear legal risk tied to boat strikes

Episode Date: December 13, 2025

U.S. service members — including staff officers and at least one drone pilot — are seeking advice from outside groups, fearing they could face legal consequences for any involvement in the Trump administration's lethal strikes on suspected drug boats. NPR's Ryan Lucas reports. Complete a brief audience survey for a chance to win a $25 gift card at npr.org/Decembersurvey. Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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Ensure its future with a donation to, Today, visit donate.npr.org. I'm Michelle Martin in Washington, D.C. For more than three months, the Trump administration has been blowing up what officials describe as drug boats in the Caribbean and Eastern Pacific. They say these are legal military strikes to stop illicit drug smuggling. Legal experts call them extrajudicial killings. And this has put service members in a tough spot.

prompted some to seek outside legal advice. NPR's Ryan Lucas reports. Since the U.S. military began blasting suspected drugboats in early September, organizations that provide advice to members of the U.S. military say they've been receiving calls from service members who are concerned about their own involvement or potential involvement in those operations. It's hard to be a soldier and make determinations in any situation, but it's especially hard in a situation like this. Steve Wolford is with Quaker House in North Carolina, which provides counseling and support to U.S. troops. The Trump administration has said the president has ordered the boat strikes under his

Article 2 powers as commander-in-chief and in self-defense. The Justice Department has drawn up a still secret opinion providing the legal justification. Wolford says a couple of service members have called his group with concerns about potential legal blowback for themselves personally for participating in the drug boat strikes, but they also have broader concerns. Both of them also had moral concerns. because they're people who are willing to be part of defense, but they don't want to be part of doing something illegal

or I don't think they'd feel right, killing people outside of the laws of war or things like that. Wolford says Quaker House connected the callers with attorneys who could give them more help and legal guidance. Wolford's group is just one of many that are available for American troops seeking outside support. Another is the Orders Project. We are here as the reference for anyone in the military

who has questions about lawful and unlawful orders. That's Frank Rosenblatt. He says they've seen a lot more calls. He won't say how many since the boat strikes began more than three months ago. Some of those getting in touch, he says, are staff officers with legal, intelligence, or targeting expertise who have to sign off on some sort of military action. What we're finding out is they're being told that there are these political appointees who really want to be able to talk about this and tout and say,

everybody in the military who looked at this said it was green light, A-O-K, and good to go. He says that when the career officers don't sign off by indicating non-conquer, they are coming under pressure. So much pressure in some cases that they're giving us a call to say, what are my options here? I want to do the right thing, but I also don't want to torpedo my career unnecessarily. Rosenblatt says they've also received calls from at least one drone pilot. But generally, the service members who are calling are not the people pulling the trigger. Instead, they are more on the operational planning side. Wolford says that goes for the callers Quaker House has had two.

And while the number of callers may not be huge at this point, the fact that people are reaching out at all reflects the confusion and worry some service members have about what they are being ordered to do. Again, Steve Wolford. I think what a lot of people have talked about us concern is the consequences of what happens should be based on what the laws are, but I'm concerned that they have more to do with. the politics. Then it just becomes this complicated guessing game of who's going to be in charge

and what are they going to say is right as opposed to maybe a more solid foundation of we have accepted rules. We can just go by. And that, he says, is a very difficult position for members of the military to be in. Ryan Lucas and PR News, Washington. And before we go, we are asking for your feedback on this show. If you can, please take a short anonymous survey at npr.org slash december survey. That's all one word. This takes less than 10 minutes, I promise. And especially if you're new to the show or you haven't taken one of our surveys before, you would be doing us a huge favor by filling it out. And as a thank you, we will be giving three randomly selected respondents a $25 gift card. Not bad. Again, that link is npr.org slash December

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