Trump's Trials - Supreme Court justices appear likely to side with president in FTC firing case

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

After hearing arguments Monday, the conservative justices on the Supreme Court seem poised to give the president the power to fire people at independent agencies like the FTC and Federal Reserve.Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

I'm Scott Detrow, and you're listening to Trump's terms from NPR. We're under invasion from within. If you're not going to protect your citizens, President Trump will. We all serve at the pleasure of the president. The golden age of America is upon us. We are in the golden age. Each episode, we bring you the latest news about the 47th president and the policy changes he is pursuing on his own terms.

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most important stories happening, and we package them into five-minute episodes so you can easily squeeze them in between meetings and on your way to that thing. Listen to the NPR News Now podcast. Now. I'm A. Martinez. And I'm Lela Faldon. The Supreme Court appears likely to hand President Trump another major victory. Yeah, the court heard arguments Monday over whether the president should have the power to remove members of independent agencies despite laws that say

he cannot. The conservative majority indicated they thought he should. NPR's Andrea Shue is listening to The Arguments and joins us now. Good morning. Good morning. Okay, so let's back up first and just talk about this case, which involved the firing of a federal trade commissioner who then sued the Trump administration to challenge her firing. But it's not about just that, right, Andrea? What's at stake here? Yeah, well, the FTC is one of a couple dozen government agencies that share a similar structure. These are regulatory agencies, typically with three or more members representing both parties who are appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate.

And Congress dictated that the president can only fire members for cause for things like neglect of duty or malfeasance. And Amit Agarwal was representing the fired FTC commissioner in court. He argued the setup has a long history, dating back to the beginning of the republic. Presidents have understood and appreciated that vital interests of the American people can be served by having constraints on the exercise of power, that is a really important part of our constitutional tradition. Okay, but it sounds like the conservative justices didn't buy that historical argument? That's right. They seem concerned that the separation of powers has gotten murky.

You know, it seems like everyone agreed that independent agencies like the FTC and many others are not purely executive in function. Their board members and commissioners make rules and decide cases. Their actions affect people and businesses all over the country. And Solicitor General John Sauer, who was representing the Trump administration, argued that's why it's a problem that they're not accountable to the president. That's a power vacuum. The president is answerable to the voters. They have no boss. The point is that power vacuum should not exist in our constitutional structure. What did the liberal justices have to say about this? Well, Layla, they took the opposite view of pretty much the same facts. Let's listen to Justice Kagan. Isn't it problematic that what this is going to amount to is putting not only all executive power in the president, but an incredible amount of legislative slash rulemaking power and judging?

And Justice Sotomayor said that the administration is asking the court to destroy the very structure of government and take away from Congress this idea that some agencies are better off independent. Of course, Lela, you know, with the current makeup of the court, it's hard to see how that independent. will stand. And in fact, Thomas Berry with the libertarian think tank, the Cato Institute, says he is really confident the court will overturn the 90-year-old precedent that limited the president's power removal. And he spoke with NPR just after the arguments. The only real question left is how are they going to write this opinion? How broad is it going to be? What reasoning are they going to use? And to what extent, if any, will they address other contested issues? And I know one of those issues is the Federal Reserve, right? Yeah, and the court is going to be tackling a whole different

case about that next month. But yesterday, Solicitor General Sauer did quote the court's own shadow docket order that called the Fed a quasi-private, uniquely structured entity with a distinct history. You know, whether the conservative majority shifts their thinking on that after next month's arguments, that remains to be seen. But for the moment, the Fed aside, it seems the court is prepared to give the president a lot more control over agencies that. that traditionally were independent. NPR's Andrea Shue, thank you for your reporting, Andrea. Thanks for having me.

Before we wrap up a reminder, you can find more coverage of the Trump administration on the NPR Politics Podcast, where you can hear NPR's political reporters break down the day's biggest political news with new episodes every weekday afternoon. And thanks, as always, to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without sponsor messages. You can learn more at plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detrow. Thank you for listening to Trump's terms from NPR.