Trump's Trials - Supreme Court sides with January 6th rioters

Episode Date: June 28, 2024

For this episode of Trump's Trials, host Scott Detrow speaks with NPR Justice Correspondent Carrie Johnson.The Supreme Court ruled federal prosecutors improperly charged hundreds of January 6ths defendants — and potentially, even former President Donald Trump. The majority found the charge — obstructing an official proceeding — does not apply unless the Justice Department can prove a defendant interfered with official documents. Therefore solely storming the Capitol to interrupt the certification of the 2020 election is not enough to warrant the charge. Topics include:- Supreme Court ruling- Impact of federal election interference caseFollow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

The Supreme Court sides with January 6th rioters. From NPR, this is Trump's Trials. I'm Scott Detro. This is a persecution. He actually just stormed out of the courtroom. Innocent till proven guilty in a court of law. In a 6-3 decision, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that federal prosecutors may have improperly charged over 350 people, including former President Donald Trump, for their actions related to the January 6th insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

The charge obstructing an official proceeding has historically been implemented for white-collar crimes like evidence tampering. The Justice Department made it central to its January 6th cases, arguing the rioters' actions on that day obstructed an official proceeding, and that would be Congress certifying the 2020 election. But the majority of justices disagreed. Writing for that majority, Chief Justice John Roberts said to prove obstruction, the DOJ had to prove the defendant interfered with documents or other materials that were part

of an official proceeding. That's of course, despite the fact the building was ransacked that day. This case may also affect Trump. In his federal election interference case, the one still on pause until the court issues another ruling, likely coming Monday, Trump faces four charges including conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, and obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding. So how does the Supreme Court's ruling affect Trump's case? NPR justice correspondent, Kari Johnson explains when we come back.

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and listen to the series. New episodes drop Mondays. And we're back with NPR Justice correspondent, Kari Johnson. Hey there. What exactly did the Supreme Court majority do today? Well, the court basically narrowed the way prosecutors can use this obstruction law. Congress passed the law after the Enron scandal, after they realized it was a crime to persuade people to destroy documents, but not to destroy documents yourself. So they made it a crime to obstruct an official proceeding, and they made it punishable by

20 years in prison, a long time. After the Capitol riot, prosecutors turned to this legal tool in some of the most serious cases, about 350 cases. But the Supreme Court majority today said DOJ was sweeping way too broadly and that to charge people with violating this law, prosecutors would need to show someone had somehow tampered with documents or records or evidence. Adam Chapnick This is kind of an interesting lineup of justices, right? You had Justice Katanji Brown Jackson, a Biden appointee, siding with the rioters. Then you had Justice Amy Coney Barrett, a

Trump appointee, writing a dissent. What did you make of that? A really unusual lineup. Justice Jackson did vote with the majority. She wrote to say January 6 had inflicted a deep wound on the nation, but that this case was about something much more narrow, just the scope of this law. And Amy Coney Barrett, the Trump appointee, wrote a very strong dissent. She said prosecutors basically had an open and shut case against this defendant, Joseph Fisher, a former police officer. She wrote that using force against someone with the intent to prevent them from turning over a record in an official proceeding is actually obstructing the proceeding. And Fisher faces six other charges, including assaulting police at the Capitol and disorderly

conduct. The case against him is now going to go back to the appeals court, which needs to figure out how to apply the standard the Supreme Court has set. And you mentioned about 350 cases. What is the practical effect of this decision on these hundreds of other people charged in connection with what happened on January 6th? I spoke with Donald Sherman at Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington about that effort to hold rioters accountable. Here's what he said. It's clear that this is weakened one statutory provision that the Department of Justice has used to hold J6 defendants accountable, but it's by no means

the only tool that they've used. In fact, the U.S. attorney Matthew Graves says this decision will touch only a tiny sliver of cases. So far, prosecutors have charged more than 1,400 people in this January 6 probe. More than 80% of them never faced this obstruction charge. A bunch of defendants were charged and pleaded guilty or convicted somehow, but they were also convicted of other felony offenses. Right now the biggest impact is going to be on about 50 people who were convicted and sentenced only on this one felony, and about 27 of them are behind bars right now. So they're expected to be released and others may have to be sentenced again.

But for some of the most prominent defendants, like the leaders of the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers, they got convicted of many other serious crimes. So the impact on their cases might not be as big. Let's talk about one other January 6th defendant, and that's former President Donald Trump. Any sense of how this decision could affect his federal case? Trump's charged with four crimes in that D.C. case to relate to this obstruction statute. Remember, the Supreme Court majority narrowed this law to things that involved documents. But in Trump's case, prosecutors say there were documents, paperwork about those phony slates

of electors. In his majority opinion, John Roberts mentioned creating false evidence. So this decision today may not change very much about that case against Trump. That's NPR Justice correspondent Carrie Johnson. Thanks Carrie. My pleasure. And make sure to check back with us on Monday. We're expecting the Supreme Court to release their decision on whether or not Trump and other presidents are immune from criminal prosecution. Their decision could further complicate the Justice Department's case against the former president. Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. Keep an eye out for more episodes like

this whenever big news happens. And we'll be back later this week with our regular show on Saturday. I'm Scott Detro. It's a high stakes election year, so it's not enough to just follow along. You need to understand what's happening so you are fully informed come November. Every weekday on the NPR Politics Podcast, our political reporters break down important stories and backstories from the campaign trail so you understand why it matters to you. Listen to the NPR Politics Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. In this country, some truths aren't self-evident.

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