Trump's Trials - Trump, aides back Chief of Staff Susie Wiles after candid Vanity Fair interviews

Episode Date: December 17, 2025

President Trump and his aides are rallying around Chief of Staff Susie Wiles after her frank assessments of the administration in a new Vanity Fair profile turned heads.Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

You're listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow. We're under invasion from within. If you're not going to protect your citizens, President Trump will. We all serve at the pleasure of the president. The golden age of America is upon us. We are in the golden age. Every episode of Trump's terms, we bring you NPR's latest coverage of the 47th president.

With a focus on actions and policies he is pursuing on his own terms and in the process, taking the presidency into uncharted territory. Today's story starts right after this. I'm Steven Skeep. And I'm Michelle Martin. The current White House Chief of Staff has some edgy assessments of President Trump and others in the administration. We learn of Susie Wiles' opinions, not in passing remarks, but through months of interviews. The resulting article in Vanity Fair illuminates a woman who rarely made headlines up to now.

She has acted as the president's facilitator. Since before the inauguration, she's also been ducking out of White House meetings to tell a reporter how Trump's White House works. NPR White House correspondent, Danielle. Kurt Slapen is here to talk about that fallout. Good morning, Danielle. Hey, Michelle. So what was in this piece that got so much attention? Well, for one thing, Wiles openly described several conflicts within this White House. For example, when Elon Musk started gutting U.S.Aid, Wiles says she was aghast and argued with him about how he was doing it. She also talks about disagreements on tariffs and how she and Vice President J.D. Vance initially tried to get Trump to back off of announcing

that big round of tariffs in April. But in addition, Wiles is just blunt about people. She calls Vance a conspiracy theorist whose conversion from anti to pro-Trump was, quote, sort of political. And she really pointedly criticizes Attorney General Pam Bondi for her initial handling of Jeffrey Epstein disclosures. Well, that sounds like she really gave her unvarnished take on things. I mean, I guess some people think that she was being harsh. Yeah, some people do. And this really got a lot of attention on social media because of it. But there's a lot of. of nuance here, really. The picture that emerges is that you have all these personalities in that White House, some of whom aren't described 100% glowingly, but that Wiles is this no-nonsense

force just hurting them all together in the service of Trump's agenda. And even when it seems here like she might have criticized Trump, the truth is just more complex. For example, there's a quote that got a lot of attention where she said Trump has an alcoholic personality. But in context, she was saying is that Trump has a big, exaggerated personality, and that he, quote, operates with a view that there is nothing he can't do. Well, that's news to no one. Yeah, I think we knew that. Well, so how is the White House responding to this? Well, Wiles was not happy. She did a rare social media post, calling this a hit piece, saying that she thought the article was trying to, quote, paint an overwhelmingly chaotic and negative narrative. And Trump officials have circled the wagons,

too. Trump even did a specific interview on this with the New York post. And he backed up Wiles and even agreed with that alcoholic line saying that, yeah, while he doesn't drink, he does have an addictive personality. Vance also defended Wiles yesterday. You know why I really love Susie Wiles? Because Susie is who she is in the president's presence. She's the same exact person when the president isn't around. I've never seen Susie Wiles say something to the president and then go and counteract him. or subvert his will behind the scenes. He also blamed the news media, but again, this was more than a year's worth of interviews,

meaning Wiles agreed repeatedly to give Vanity Fair this access. Okay, so quickly, Danielle, the Trump administration at war with the media is not a new thing. So why is this such a big deal and why the concerted pushback? Well, first of all, like you said, that it's just rare for Wiles to talk to reporters and be this unfiltered. Secondly, the drama got attention, as drama does. But beyond all that, there's the context that the administration has been trying to focus on the economy. Here we see just how easily that can be derailed, just as Trump himself did earlier this week when he disparaged the slain liberal film director Rob Reiner. Now, tonight, the White House is going to try to get back on course with the prime time address, which is expected to focus on the president's first year wins.

And parents, Daniel, Kirtzleben, Daniel, thank you. Thank you. Before we wrap up, a reminder, you can find out. more coverage of the Trump administration on the NPR Politics podcast, where you can hear NPR's political reporters break down the day's biggest political news with new episodes every weekday afternoon. And thanks, as always, to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without sponsor messages. You can learn more at plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detrow. Thank you for listening to Trump's terms from NPR.

Thank you.