Trump's Trials - Trump does not have broad immunity, appeals court decides

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

For this episode of Trump's Trials, NPR's Ari Shapiro speaks to Justice Correspondent Carrie Johnson. Former President Donald Trump does not enjoy broad immunity from federal prosecution. That was the ruling from a three-judge panel on the U.S. Court of Appeals D.C. Circuit. The judges also gave Trump six days to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.Topics include:- Details of the D.C. Appeals ruling - Political and legal calendar - What's nextFollow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for new episodes each Saturday.Sign up for sponsor-free episodes and support NPR's political journalism at plus.npr.org/trumpstrials.Email the show at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Trump's Trials from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow. This is a persecution. He actually just stormed out of the courtroom. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. A federal appeals court has ruled that former President Donald Trump is not immune from prosecution in the January 6th election interference case. In a unanimous decision, a three-judge panel on the U.S. Court of Appeals D.C. Circuit has said, For the purpose of this criminal case, former President Trump has become Citizen Trump, with all of the defenses of any other criminal defendant.

But any executive immunity that may have protected him while he served as president no longer protects him against this prosecution. And that means that Trump does not enjoy broad immunity from federal prosecution, and therefore he can be prosecuted for alleged crimes involving attempts to overturn the 2020 election. The appeals court has also given Trump a short window to file an appeal to the Supreme Court, which is something he'll most likely do. Although the trial start date is still up in the air and definitely at this point not happening in early March as it was initially scheduled, this is a big development that moves

the case one step closer to going to trial. We will dive into this ruling and what it all means going forward with NPR Justice Correspondent Kerry Johnson when we come back. Thank you. formulated to help fight cellular decline and promote cell health. Learn more at cellularnutrition.solgar.com. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. You're listening to Trump's Trials. I'm Scott Detrow. And now, here's Ari Shapiro. What did the three judges on the D.C. Circuit panel say in their ruling today? They say Trump does not enjoy absolute immunity from federal prosecution.

And for the purposes of this criminal case, they wrote former President Trump has become citizen Trump. With all the defenses of any other criminal defendant, the court said it would be a striking paradox if the president, who has a special constitutional duty to make sure that the laws are executed faithfully, were the only person capable of defying those laws with impunity. And the judges wrote, we can't accept the office of the presidency places its former occupants above the law for all time thereafter. They said that would collapse the system of the separation of powers. That is strong language in a unanimous opinion. And it's the first time an appeals court has been asked to weigh in on a claim of absolute immunity by a former president.

What else stands out to you in the ruling? These judges pretty soundly rejected all of Donald Trump's claims. They talked about an overriding interest in accountability, outweighing his claims about baseless prosecutions and lawsuits. And they wrote, former President Trump's alleged efforts to remain in power despite losing the 2020 election were, if proven, an unprecedented assault on the structure of our government. The court said really the most fundamental check on executive power belongs to voters and Trump should not be able to violate their will.

They also wrote the prospect of criminal liability might help keep future presidents in line. Just for context, there are so many cases involving Trump right now. Remind us how we got to this one, this opinion today. Yeah, in this case in D.C., Trump faces four federal charges for attempting to stay in office after he lost the 2020 election to Joe Biden. Prosecutors say those steps culminated in violence at the Capitol three years ago that injured 140 police officers. Trump has pleaded not guilty to those charges. And his lawyers argued before the appeals court last month that Trump deserved broad immunity because his actions were official ones. He took

as president and he was simply raising questions about the integrity of the election. But prosecutors said Trump's legal arguments would actually undermine democracy and give presidents a license to commit crimes while in the White House. Today's ruling is not the end of the story. What happens next? Trump has until Monday to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court, and he would need a majority of the nine justices to pause or stay the case at this stage. If the Supreme Court refuses to pause the case, it's going to pretty quickly return to Judge Tanya Chutkin. She recently wiped away the March 4th trial date, but we know she wants to move very quickly without additional appeals or delays. This case could go to trial in late, late spring or

summer. And once again, Trump's legal problems could be running up against the political calendar. How do these two align? You know, Trump is the frontrunner for the Republican nomination and the national convention is set for July. We also have a new data point from a poll to be released tomorrow by NPR, PBS NewsHour, and Marist. Two-thirds of the people polled say Trump should not have immunity for actions taken while president, but nearly three quarters of Republicans say he should have immunity. Any response from the former president today? Trump has promised to appeal. His campaign spokesman says, without complete immunity, a president would not be able to properly function, and other presidents who leave office are going to be indicted immediately, he says,

by the opposing party. Trump also sent out a fundraising pitch shortly after the appeals court ruling, calling it a witch hunt, which we've heard so many times before from him. Is this decision likely to affect the other cases prosecuting him? It's not clear if this D.C. trial over the 2020 election will remain first in line or whether a case in New York might leapfrog. remain first in line or whether a case in New York might leapfrog. We've also got that prosecution in Florida over classified documents and the Fulton County, Georgia case, which is kind of mucked up now in how to handle some motions to disqualify the prosecutor. NPR's Kerry Johnson, thanks for your reporting. My pleasure. Thanks for listening to Trump's Trials from NPR. Keep an eye out for more episodes like this

whenever big news happens. And we'll be back later this week with our regular show on Saturday. I'm Scott Detrow. Support for NPR and the following message come from SAP Concur, a leading brand for integrated travel expense and invoice management solutions. With SAP Concur solutions, you'll be ready to take on whatever the market throws at you next. Learn more at Concur.com. Spend time in any American city and you'll likely encounter someone with untreated psychosis. Lost Patients is a new podcast examining our maze-like system for treating severe mental illness, which loses patients to an endless loop between the streets, jail, and hospitals.

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