Trump's Trials - Trump floats tariff 'dividends' even while plan shows major flaws

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

President Trump has bragged many times about the revenue tariffs are bringing in – money paid by American businesses, who pass some of the costs on to consumers. Over the weekend, Trump pushed the idea of paying that money back to Americans, in the form of $2,000 payments, as NPR's Danielle Kurtzleben reports.Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

I'm Scott Detrow, and you're listening to Trump's terms from NPR. We're under invasion from within. If you're not going to protect your citizens, President Trump will. We all serve at the pleasure of the president. The golden age of America is upon us. We are in the golden age. Each episode, we bring you the latest news about the 47th president and the policy changes he is pursuing on his own terms.

We know from experience that means challenging precedent, busting norms, and pushing against set ideas about what the federal government can and can't do. It all raises questions about how much Washington and the country will change over the course of this term. NPR is covering it all in stories like the one you are about to hear right after this. You're listening to Trump's terms from NPR. I'm Steven Skeep. Here is one thing that President Trump has said in recent months about the revenue being brought in by tariffs. That's money paid by American business.

businesses who pass on some of the costs to consumers. The president is suggesting that some of that money should go back to Americans. As NPR's Daniel Kurtzleben reports, Americans should not count on seeing the check just yet. Trump is calling the payments dividends, but they are by no means a fleshed out proposal. He briefly discussed them with reporters on Monday. One of the things we're going to do, we're going to issue a dividend to our middle income people and lower income people of about $2,000, and we're going to use the remaining tariffs to lower our debt. That's most of the details he has provided on the idea. While details are scant, budget experts are already saying that there just isn't enough

money for this idea. Erica York is one of them. She's vice president of federal tax policy at the right-leaning tax foundation. Even with the most conservative estimates applied to it, it doesn't work. By her math, if the rebates went to people making under $100,000 per year, that would cost way more than the amount of revenue tariffs will bring in. You'll see at least a $100 billion gap there between what we could expect the tariffs to generate for the U.S. government versus what the president is promising to spend on

tariff rebates for American citizens. In other words, the proposal could add to the debt. Then again, the White House is already saying the plan might not involve a straightforward check sent to taxpayers. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said on ABCs this week on Sunday, the voters might receive the money in the form of tax cuts that Congress already passed. It could be just the tax decreases that we are seeing on the president's agenda. You know, no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax on Social Security.

NPR asked for additional details on the plan, but the White House did not answer directly. Talking about revenues puts the Trump administration in a tricky position right now. Just last week, administration lawyers argued before the Supreme Court that revenues aren't the point of the tariffs. Solicitor General John Sauer said this to the justices. These are regulatory tariffs. They are not revenue-raising tariffs. The fact that they raise revenue is only incidental.

Asked to square that argument with Trump's revenue talk, Besson said the tariffs are ultimately meant to bring businesses back into the U.S. No matter what, Congress would have to authorize any payments. And even if the government were open, it's not a given that would happen. Danielle Kurtzleben and PR News. Before we wrap up a reminder, you can find more coverage of the Trump administration on the NPR Politics podcast, where you can hear NPR's political reporters break down the day's biggest political news with new episodes every weekday afternoon. And thanks, as always, to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without sponsor messages. You can learn more at plus.npr.org.

I'm Scott Detrow. Thanks for listening to Trump's terms from NPR. Thank you.