Trump's Trials - Trump said he'd send 30,000 migrants to Guantánamo. He's sent about 500

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

NPR's Sacha Pfeiffer brings us a report on the Trump administration's plans to house migrants at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

You're listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. I'm Scott Desprat. We're going to be doing all sorts of things nobody ever thought was even possible. President Trump has brought back strength to the White House. We can't just ignore the president's desires. This will be an entirely different country in a short period of time. Every episode of Trump's Terms, we bring you NPR's latest coverage of the 47th president, with a focus on actions and policies he is pursuing on his own terms and in the process, taking the presidency into uncharted territory.

Today's story starts right after this. The House of Representatives has approved a White House request to claw back two years of previously approved funding for public media. The rescissions package now moves on to the Senate. This move poses a serious threat to local stations and public media as we know it. Please take a stand for public media today at GoACPR.org. Thank you. Decades ago, Brazilian women made a discovery. They could have an abortion without a doctor, thanks to a tiny pill. That pill spawned a global movement, helping millions of women have safe abortions, regardless of the law.

Hear that story on the network from NPR's Embedded and Futuro Media, wherever you get your podcasts. You know those things you shout at the radio or maybe even at this very NPR podcast? On NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, we actually say those things on the radio and on the podcast. We're rude across all media. We think the news can take it. Listen to NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Leila Faldon. Earlier this year, President Trump said he would send up to 30,000 migrants to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Skeptics predicted he would face major

hurdles in carrying out that plan, like a bed space, high cost, and the complicated logistics of flying all these people to a Caribbean island. Now NPR's Sasha Pfeiffer has an update. Sasha, good morning. Good morning, Lela. So do we know how many migrants have actually been sent to Guantanamo? The government is sharing very few numbers publicly. In fact, I sent the Department of Homeland Security a list of 13 questions about this, and all I got in reply was a brief email saying, this story is fake news. However, we are getting glimpses into what's happening there from a congressional delegation that recently toured Guantanamo. They were told about 400 migrants had been sent in and out of there as of

March, and according to a court filing this month, that number has increased to about 500. The delegates were also told Guantanamo only has capacity for about 200 migrants at a time, nowhere near 30,000. Democratic Michigan Senator Gary Peters was on that tour, and here he is at a congressional hearing in May. It's costing about $100,000 a day to keep someone at Guantanamo Bay. When we fly them down there, we keep them there a while, then we fly them back to the United States.

Man, this is like ripe for Doge. Why is Doge them down there, we keep them there a while, then we fly them back to the United States. Man, this is like ripe for Doge. Why is Doge not down there? Lela, Senator Peters also noted that keeping migrants in ICE detention in the U.S. only costs about $165 a day. And he said the total bill for sending migrants to Guantanamo for just the first two months of this operation was about $40 million. Okay, that's a lot of money. But I want to go back to something else he said about migrants

being flown to Guantanamo and then flown back to the United States. Why is that happening? The government has not explained its rationale for that. It said in a court filing that it's using Guantanamo for, quote, staging for final removal, but it gave no reason why Gitmo should be a pit stop before sending some migrants to their final deportation destination, or why it's briefly sending some of them to Gitmo only to return them to the US. Now I spoke with an ACLU lawyer named Lee Gelernt, and he believes this is a fear campaign

to encourage self-deportation. There's no rational reason from a policy standpoint to send people to Guantanamo for a day, two days, even for a few weeks, unless your sole objective is to scare immigrants and create this theater. Okay, he says it's a scare tactic. Were you able to speak to any Republican delegates who toured Guantanamo? I contacted a half dozen Republicans who went on that trip, all declined to comment or didn't reply.

But one did post a video of himself talking about the tour on his Instagram account. This is Congressman Mike Collins of Georgia. Hey, listen, just got back from Guantanamo Bay. We got folks coming up here in just a few minutes, but I want to tell you something. I can't think of a better place than Gitmo to send these thugs, these rapists, these murderers, drug dealers, human traffickers that Joe Biden and the Democrats let flood into our country. Now, we know from court records that many of the migrants sent to Guantanamo had no criminal records, but Congressman Collins said the U.S. should spend whatever it takes

to accomplish President Trump's mission of securing our border. Overall, though, that initial skepticism that Guantanamo could hold 30,000 migrants appears to be justified so far. That's NPR's Sasha Pfeiffer. Thank you so much for that really important reporting. You're welcome. Before we wrap up, a reminder, you can find more coverage of the Trump administration on the NPR Politics Podcast, where you can hear NPR's political reporters break down the day's biggest political news with new episodes every weekday afternoon.

And thanks as always to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without sponsor messages. You can learn more at plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detro. Thanks for listening to Trump's terms from NPR. On the plus side, you get sponsor-free listening to over 25 NPR podcasts. On the minus side, you get fewer chances to tap fast forward on your podcast player. On the minus side, you get fewer chances to tap fast forward on your podcast player.

On the plus side, you get to support something you care about. On the minus side, you like challenges and think this makes it too easy. So why don't you join us on the plus side of things with NPR Plus. Learn more and sign up at plus.npr.org. These days, there is a lot of news. It could be hard to keep up with what it means for you, your family, and your community.

Consider this from NPR as a podcast that helps you make sense of the news. Six days a week, we bring you a deep dive on a story and provide the context, the backstory, an analysis you need to understand our rapidly changing world. Listen to the Consider This podcast from NPR. It all starts with listening. To the person in front of you and the person you'll never meet. To the person living a story and the journalist who helps you see it in a new light. The NPR network is built on listening. With microphones in every region so where there any time a voice or sound demands to be heard. Hear stories in the first person, hear the

bigger picture on NPR.