Trump's Trials - Trump's efforts to downsize the federal workforce have been slowed by lawsuits

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

President Trump's effort to dramatically reduce the federal workforce has run into roadblocks in the courts. Although mass layoffs are largely on hold, thousands of people have voluntarily resigned. NPR's Andrea Hsu reports.Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

I'm Scott Detro and this is Trump's Terms from NPR. We're going to be doing all sorts of things nobody ever thought was even possible. President Trump has brought back strength to the White House. We can't just ignore the president's desires. This will be an entirely different country in a short period of time. Every episode we bring you one of NPR's latest stories about the 47th president and how he is trying to remake the federal government. Today's story starts right after this. Keeping up with the news can feel like a 24-hour job.

Luckily, it is our job. Every hour on the NPR News Now podcast, we take the latest, most important stories happening and we package them into five-minute episodes so you can easily squeeze them in between meetings and on your way to that thing, listen to the NPR News Now podcast now. The news can feel like a lot on any given day, but you can't just ignore it when big, even world-changing events are happening. That's where the Up First podcast comes in. Every morning in under 15 minutes, we take the news and pick three essential stories so you can keep up without getting stressed out.

Listen now to the Up First podcast from NPR. I'm Juana Summers. President Trump wants a smaller government workforce and in his first four months, he's tried many things to achieve that. But how many people has he actually gotten out of government so far? As in first Andrew Hsu reports, it's hard to say. The White House put a version of that question to Trump's press secretary, Caroline Levin. Bobby Lynn. How many people has he fired? It was bring your child to work day. How many people has he fired? It was Bring Your Child to Work Day.

How many people has he fired? And this child got a lesson in political spin. Thus far, actually, we have not had anyone fired with the exception of one individual who did leave their job. In fact, President Trump has fired quite a number of people. Members of independent agencies, a bunch of inspectors general, even the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Now, what is true is that many more people have left their jobs, most of them in exchange

for pay and benefits through September. Here's how Trump put it last week. More than 75,000 bureaucrats have voluntarily left their taxpayer-funded jobs. Many people told NPR they didn't want to quit, but did so because they feared being fired if they stayed. By the way, that 75,000 number Trump mentioned is from February. It's likely several times larger by now. Even with agencies like USAID, which Trump has essentially dismantled, it's hard to

say how many people are gone. That's because much of what Trump has done, halting its work and freezing international aid grants, has been challenged in court. Most employees, I believe, are on some type of paid leave. Sky Perryman is president of Democracy Forward. That's a legal organization that has filed scores of lawsuits trying to stop Trump's actions. And so far anyway,

they've had some success. In one big case, a federal judge in San Francisco halted the mass layoffs at about 20 different agencies, including ones like Health and Human Services, which had already told 10,000 people they were losing their jobs. Perryman says Trump can slash the workforce, but the way he's doing it is illegal. So if you are going to decimate agencies that are fulfilling a purpose, a lawful purpose that Congress has mandated, that requires congressional approval. And Trump had not gotten that. Now his administration is asking the Supreme Court to intervene.

But for now, his hopes for cuts of 40 to 50 percent at many agencies are on hold and also on hold is a lot of the work that people were doing, as thousands of them are now being paid to stay home. And then there are people in an even more bizarre state of limbo. My name is Lauren Dewick, and I was the director of communications at NOAA's satellite division. That's part of the Department of Commerce. Dueck and hundreds of other probationary employees or more recent hires were fired in late February and early March, but then reinstated under court order

and then fired again when an appeals court lifted that order. Now that court is still considering whether the firings were legal. Meanwhile, nobody Dueck knows has gotten paperwork showing they've been terminated. It's been almost two months and no one has seen any progress on getting this paperwork done.

Duick says that's kept some people from getting new health insurance, collecting unemployment, even starting a new job. We've been calling regularly. Lots of different people have called many times to try and get them to answer any of these questions. The Commerce Department did not respond to NPR's questions about what's going on here either. If they're going to fire us, at least just fire us. Like let us go on and move on to

other things. Like finding a new job with less uncertainty. Andrea Hsu, NPR News. Before we wrap up a reminder, you can find more coverage of the Trump administration on the NPR Politics Podcast, where you can hear NPR's political reporters break down the day's biggest political news with new episodes every weekday afternoon. And thanks as always to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without sponsor messages. You can learn more at plus.npr.org.

I'm Scott Detrow. Thanks for listening to Trump's terms from NPR. It all starts with listening, to the person in front of you, and the person you'll never meet. To the person living a story and the journalist who helps you see it in a new light. The NPR network is built on listening. With microphones in every region so where there anytime a voice or sound demands to be heard. Hear stories in the first person, hear the bigger picture on NPR.