Trump's Trials - Trump's Terms -10.15.2025

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

Dozens of journalists will turn in their Pentagon press passes Wednesday after major news outlets said they would not sign a new Defense Department policy that put restrictions on reporting. What does the Pentagon's restrictive new press policy mean for coverage of military affairs? NPR's Michel Martin asks longtime journalist and former Defense Department spokesperson Pete Williams.Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

You're listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow. We're under invasion from within. If you're not going to protect your citizens, President Trump will. We all serve at the pleasure of the president. The golden age of America is upon us. We are in the golden age. Every episode of Trump's terms, we bring you NPR's latest coverage of the 47th president.

With a focus on actions and policies he is pursuing on his own terms and in the process, taking the presidency into uncharted territory. Today's story starts right after this. In the U.S., national security news can feel far away from daily life. Distant wars, murky conflicts, diplomacy behind closed doors on our new show, Sources and Methods. NPR reporters on the ground bring you stories of real people helping you understand why distant events matter here at home. Listen to sources and methods on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle Martin. Leila Fauden. By the close of business today, dozens of reporters covering the Pentagon for major news outlets will have to turn in the badges giving them access to the building. That's because almost all news organizations, including NPR, have rejected new policies for journalists from the defense secretary. NPR media correspondent David Fokinflik reports.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegeseth spoke at the White House yesterday, complaining that reporters failed to give President Trump enough credit for the Israel Hamas ceasefire. Hegseth also defended the new demands he has placed on the press corps that covers the Pentagon. So it's common sense stuff, Mr. President. We're trying to make sure national security is respected, and we're proud of the policy. The policy bans disclosure of information that is not authorized by the Pentagon for public release, even if that information is not classified. Hegseth has accused news organizations of wanting to be able to roam freely throughout the Pentagon and asking people to divulge secrets. So far, only the right-wing pro-Trump outfit one America news name. network has signed on to the policy. NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman says he'd rather

turn in his badge after 28 years than make that promise. Here's what Bowman said last night on NPR's All Things Considered. That turns us into stenographers and not reporters. That basically means we just parrot what the government tells us, much like you would see in countries' authoritarian ones where the government places sharp controls on the press. As he took office, Hegeseth promised to make the Pentagon the most transparent in U.S. history. Instead, Hegseth and his aides have kept reporters largely at bay, refusing to share information with the press and narrowing further where reporters can go within the building. After Hegseth was embarrassed by early press reports, he subjected officials he suspected of leaks to lie detector tests. Heg Seth was previously a weekend morning host for Fox News.

That's where he caught Trump's eye. Fox joined with other TV networks in refusing to sign this pledge, collectively saying, quote, the policy is without precedent and threatens cordial. Journalistic protections. In a statement sent to NPR, Chief Pentagon spokesperson Sean Parnell said the pledge just highlights what defense department personnel can tell the press. He wrote that the policy does not ask reporters to agree, quote, just to acknowledge that they understand what our policy is. Parnell accused news outlets of having, quote, a full-blown, crying victim online. Media advocacy groups say the Pentagon is straying into prior restraint, that is, determining what a private and free press can report before. for publication. That practice was barred under a Supreme Court ruling more than 50 years ago. It's commonly called the Pentagon Papers case. David Fulkinflick and PR News. For a perspective on the Pentagon's restrictive new press policy, we've called somebody who's been on both sides of the microphone, Pete Williams. He began his career as a journalist, then became a congressional press secretary, and later assistant secretary of defense for public affairs under former president George H.W. Bush.

He then returned to journalism as an award. award-winning correspondent for NBC News and he's with us now. Pete Williams, good morning. Thanks for joining us. Good morning to you, my pleasure. So let me just fact-check some things. Heggsets tweeted that members of the press will no longer be allowed to, quote, roam free. Has that ever been true? No, it's not. And, you know, I was always proud of the fact that uniquely, or nearly uniquely, among all defense establishments around the world, the Pentagon always had reporters inside the building where all the Pentagon officials came to work. I thought that was a matter of pride. More seriously, he tweeted that media will

no longer be allowed to, quote, solicit criminal acts. That's a very serious allegation. I mean, given that media, people, and politicians often disagree about what kind of information should be reported on, is there any merit to the claim that journalists are, quote, soliciting criminal acts? Well, that would be true if, in theory, you were asking someone to reveal classified information. If you were in cahoots with them, that's potentially an illegal. Act. But just asking them what's going on and what do you think of what the leadership is doing is hardly illegal, the policy says that you are encouraging employees to break the law because that kind of thing falls out the scope of, outside the scope of news gathering activities.

That is what news gathering activities are. And I think it simply means the Pentagon leadership wants to try to control what gets reported. And it also means that military personnel need approval before they can share information with reporters, which makes you wonder whether the current leadership really trust people in uniform. So President Trump defended this yesterday, speaking for the defense secretary, he said, I think he finds the press to be very disruptive in terms of world peace and maybe security for our nation. Did you find that to be true in your time as a Pentagon spokesperson? No, of course not. And, you know, there are times when the leadership of any government agency may find what reporters do a little annoying, but you know, that's what comes with a democracy.

And if the policy is really intended, I think, to stop critical stories about the Secretary of a Defense and his leadership team, and if that's the goal, it's not going to work, because reporters can still learn what they need to know without setting foot in the building. I was going to ask you about that. Can they do their jobs without being in the building? Well, sure. I mean, they can, it's not as easy. They probably won't be as good. good, but, you know, people still have phones. They can still meet with them after hours. So it's not going to, if their theory is it'll stop critical stories about Heggseth and the leadership, it's not going to work. But I would make one other point. I think, number one,

of course, it's not in the interest of journalists, but it's not in the interest of the Pentagon either. Because when I was the spokesman there, I found it essential to have journalists close at hand when I needed to reach them to urge corrections or suggest approaches in reporting or provide guidance to avoid mistakes. It's, you know, it's good to have them around. What about to the public? I mean, the public at large, I mean, I think I hear what you're saying. You're saying from the standpoint of trying to explain the functioning of the work of the building to the public at large, it's helpful to have proximity to people. It's helpful to know them. it's helpful to understand their deadlines and their work environment, so forth.

But what about the public at large? I mean, obviously, we live in a time when, you know, a smaller percentage of the population has actually had active duty military experience because we have an old volunteer force for several generations now. I mean, what do you think the public might lose as a consequence of this? Well, that's the key point, because more and more Americans have no contact with the military. And so the only thing they know about what's going on at the Pentagon is what they read in the news media. and it's just not enough for the secretary to put out social media tweets.

You know, we're becoming more and more distant with our military, and that's not a good thing. So anything like this that puts further distance between the reporters and the military is counterproductive. It's just a bad idea, and it's not going to do the Defense Department any good. We only have about 30 seconds left, but do you, you know, as we mentioned, numerous media outlets, including this one, and Fox News have rejected this policy, You see any way this resolves? Well, one way might be in court. There's already talk about lawsuits to challenge this. I don't know how successful that will be.

For now, the Pentagon seems pretty hard over on this. My hope is that they realize that this is just a bad idea and that they'll back away from it after a little time passes. That's Pete Williams, former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs. He served in the administration of President George H.W. Bush. Pete Williams, thank you so much. My pleasure. Before we wrap up a reminder, you can find more coverage of the Trump administration on the NPR Politics podcast,

where you can hear NPR's political reporters break down the day's biggest political news with new episodes every weekday afternoon. And thanks, as always, to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without sponsor messages. You can learn more at plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detrow. Thanks for listening to Trump's terms from NPR. Thank you.