Trump's Trials - Unpacking the DOJ effort to question Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell

Episode Date: July 23, 2025

The Justice Department has asked Ghislaine Maxwell, a convicted associate of Jeffrey Epstein, for a meeting as it looks to make new inroads into what had been a closed investigation. NPR's Ryan Lucas reports. Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

I'm Scott Detro and this is Trump's terms from NPR. We're going to be doing all sorts of things nobody ever thought was even possible. President Trump has brought back strength to the White House. We can't just ignore the president's desires. This will be an entirely different country in a short period of time. Every episode we bring you one of NPR's latest stories about the 47th president and how he is trying to remake the federal government. Today's story starts right after this. The Fantastic Four are back again in a new movie and it's an eye-popping good time.

We've seen the story before, but this time the vibe is different. It's brighter, set in a retro future with flying cars. Plus, it stars Pedro Pascal and works for casual viewers and nerds alike. We'll tell you why on Pop Culture Happy Hour. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sasha Pfeiffer. The Trump administration is still scrambling to contain the fallout from its handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files. The Justice Department now says it's trying to arrange a meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell,

who is in federal prison for her role helping Epstein sexually abuse underage girls. And PR Justice correspondent Ryan Lucas is following this and he's with us on the line. Hi, Ryan. Ryan Lucas Hi there. Danielle Pletka Would you recap how Maxwell fits into the Epstein saga? Ryan Lucas So she's a longtime associate of Epstein's, the two even dated at one point.

And Maxwell was convicted in 2021 by a federal jury in New York of sex trafficking and other charges for her role helping to recruit and groom young girls, some as young as 14, to be sexually exploited by Epstein. She's currently serving a 20-year prison sentence, but she's still fighting her conviction. She's appealed it. She's arguing that part of a non-prosecution agreement that Epstein struck with prosecutors in Florida should have prohibited her from facing federal charges in New York. Two courts have rejected her appeal.

She wants the Supreme Court to review her case, which is something the Justice Department is opposing. And Ryan, now after a conviction by a federal jury, the Justice Department wants to talk with her? That's right. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch said in a statement that he has been in contact with Maxwell's lawyer to see whether she would be willing to speak with Justice Department attorneys. He says that if Maxwell has any information about anyone who has committed

crimes against victims, the FBI and the DOJ will hear what she has to say. Now, it's unclear what exactly Maxwell would have to say. She didn't testify at her trial. She was deposed though in 2016 as part of a civil suit. Basically said she didn't know anything and she actually later faced perjury charges in connection with that deposition. Now Maxwell's attorney has confirmed that he is in talks with the department. It is important to point one thing out here though. Maxwell can't be forced to sit down with prosecutors. She doesn't have to talk to anyone.

In fact, she would likely only do so if there's something in it for her and that something would likely be either a presidential pardon or a commutation of her sentence. And that would be a controversial thing to do given that she was convicted of sex trafficking girls as young as 14. Danielle Pletka So DOJ wanting to talk to her is a new development, but there's also DOJ asking a federal court to unseal grand jury transcripts from the Epstein case. What's the latest on that effort?

That's right. The department made that request on Friday. Grand jury proceedings, though, are generally secret, but the department says an exception should be made here because of the public interest in this case. Now, judges in New York overseeing the Maxwell and Epstein cases have to sign off on this. They have said in orders yesterday that they want to resolve this as quickly as they can, but that the department didn't address adequately why these transcripts should be made public. So they gave the department a week to do so. They also set a two-week deadline to hear about this idea from representatives of Epstein,

as well as from his victims. Danielle Pletka We've been talking a lot on the show this week about how the grand jury transcripts may not be as revelatory as some people hope. How much are people likely to learn from them? Michael Hichs Yeah, probably not a lot. This would be just really a small sliver of the materials that prosecutors and agents collected in their course of their investigation. And look, prosecutors generally present only as much information to the grand jury as is

necessary to get an indictment, no more than that. So usually they'll have, say, an FBI agent present summary testimony. They aren't going to bring in every single government witness before the grand jury. They might present a few exhibits, but not reams of text messages and emails and so forth. So if these transcripts are made public, it would really just be a small piece, a small sliver of information and unlikely to satisfy everybody out there who's clamoring for more on this. That's NPR's Ryan Lucas. Ryan, thank you.

Thank you. Before we wrap up, a reminder, you can find more coverage of the Trump administration on the NPR Politics Podcast, where you can hear NPR's political reporters break down the day's biggest political news with new episodes every weekday afternoon. And thanks as always to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without sponsor messages. You can learn more at plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detrow.

Thanks for listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. It doesn't matter if you're a fan or not. We have to talk about season seven of Love Island USA. It's a huge indication to me of this kind of generation of people who don't know how to be open and vulnerable. I'm Brittany Luce, and on this episode of It's Been A Minute, I want to show you how reality TV is getting a little too real by revealing what it's really like to date today. Listen to the It's Been A Minute podcast today.