Trump's Trials - U.S. presents plan to end the war in Ukraine

Episode Date: November 21, 2025

The White House presented a plan for peace to Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy this week, but the proposal requires major concessions from Ukraine.Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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And I'm A May Martinez. President Trump wants another peace deal under his belt. I've settled eight wars. I have one to go. You know what that one is? I thought that was going to be my easy one because I have a good relationship with President Putin, but I'm a little disappointed in President Putin right now. The comments came just before his chief negotiator presented a new 28-point plan for peace to Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky. International observers are encouraged that Trump has not given up, but they're also expressing caution about the actual plan's practicality. NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordonez is here. Franco, tell us about this plan. Yeah, pieces began to start leaking out this week.

And yesterday, the White House publicly acknowledged the proposal. Press Secretary Caroline Levitt said special envoy Steve Whitkoff and Secretary of State Marco Rubio have been working on it both with Russia and Ukraine for about a month. But she did not release any details on the plan, which she said was still in flux. Yeah, but there is one little detail, right? That actually is a big one. one where Ukraine might actually draw a line in the sand. That's right. And Ukraine has repeatedly said that they will not give up territory to Russia,

that it doesn't already control. And in his statement and his evening address last night, Zelensky said that the plan could activate diplomacy, but he also urged caution. Charging that Russia does not actually want peace. Here's more of what he said. Now he's saying Ukraine has received the American proposal, the American vision, and that Ukraine has one simple position, that Ukraine needs peace, a real peace that will not be broken by another invasion. Yeah, but Ukraine keeps saying they are not giving up territory to Russia, so why does the Trump administration keep bringing it up?

Yeah, I mean, I think the simple answer is that Trump is just so focused on getting to yes. I was speaking with Russian analyst Sam Cherub, who is at Rand, a think tank that studies security. And he says the details don't matter as much to Trump. who just wants to stop the fighting. For both Presidents Putin and Zelensky, the details really matter. That's why you have to have them or their representatives in the room working these issues in detail if you want to get something that will stick. And that's why Russia wants more strategic territory,

and Ukraine is so adamant about security guarantees from Washington and its Western partners so that this type of invasion doesn't happen again. The thing is, though, President Trump has seemingly gone back and forth when it comes to supporting Russia, then supporting Ukraine. And some people thought maybe that's because maybe he wants to kind of get out of effort to try and resolve this. So, I mean, what does that say about what this analysis means? Yeah, back in September, Trump's stunned much of Washington when he said that Ukraine can win the war and even called Russia a paper tiger. But when that was not followed up with any action, some international observers started to think that Trump was actually looking for

an exit ramp because he was also pressing Europe to take more of the lead. So this news of a peace plan, even if it's perhaps not currently feasible, has experts like Cherup and courage. Because the reality is only the U.S. has unique leverage over both Russia and Ukraine. And without the U.S., it's really hard to see a negotiated end to the war. That's White House correspondent Franco Ordonez. Thanks a lot. Thanks, same. Before we wrap up a reminder, you can find more coverage of the Trump administration on the NPR Politics podcast, where you can hear NPR's political reporters break down the day's biggest political news with new episodes every weekday afternoon. And thanks, as always, to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without sponsor messages.

You can learn more at plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detrow. Thanks for listening to Trump's terms from NPR. Thank you.