Trump's Trials - What designating cartels as terrorist organizations means in practice

Episode Date: January 24, 2025

President Trump has signed an executive order about designating cartels as terrorist organizations. The U.S. already has tools to go after cartels, but a designation could broaden those options. Support NPR and hear every episode sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

I'm Scott Detro and you're listening to Trump's terms from NPR. We're going to be doing all sorts of things nobody ever thought was even possible. It's going to be a very aggressive first hundred days of the new Congress. Unpredictable, transformative next four years. The United States is going to take off like a rocket ship. Each episode we bring you the latest news about the 47th president and the policy changes he is pursuing on his own terms. We know from experience that means challenging precedent, busting norms, and pushing against

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rolls, okay? My buckets of thighs. Sauce on the side, you can't afford it. I'm Rachel Martin. Michelle Buteau is on the Wild Card Podcast, the show where cards control the conversation. Matt Wilson spent years doing rounds at children's hospitals in New York City. I had a clip-on tie. I wore Heelys, size 11.

Matt was a medical clown. The whole of a medical clown is to reintroduce the sense of play and joy and hope and light into a space that doesn't normally inhabit. Ideas about navigating uncertainty. That's on the TED Radio Hour podcast from NPR. I'm Juana Sommers. Since taking office on Monday, President Trump has signed a flurry of executive actions. Let's take a closer look at the order about designating drug cartels as terrorist organizations. NPR justice correspondent Ryan Lucas is here.

Hi, Ryan. Hi there. Ryan, let's start with the executive order itself. What does it say? So the order says that the cartels are a threat in a way that you're kind of run of the mill organized crime is not. These cartels use horrific violence to control illegal traffic of people and drugs across the southern border. And that the order says is a national security threat for the United States.

What this order does is instruct the State Department to recommend within 14 days whether to apply this designation to the cartels, as well as to Central American criminal gangs. This sort of designation is something that has been considered in the past during Trump's first term in office, but also way back during the Obama presidency. Ultimately, the decision back then was not to move forward with it though. Got it, okay, so on a practical level,

what would designating the cartels as terrorist organizations actually do? Well, first off, to be absolutely clear, the US government already has the ability to go after drug traffickers and cartels with both prosecutions and sanctions. What the terrorism designation would do is kind of broaden those options a bit. And the most significant change, many experts say, would be the possibility to bring what's known as material support prosecution.

So under federal law, it is a crime to provide material support to designated terrorists. And material support can mean anything from money or weapons to lodging, false papers, even something just like a phone card. This is a bread and butter charge in terrorism prosecutions. And over the years, it has been interpreted pretty broadly. In the context of supporting a cartel,

who could face those kinds of charges? Well, a whole range of folks. Members of the cartels, of course, street gangs in the US that are selling the cartels drugs, but also people who provide financial or logistical support to the cartels. The ripple effects though could be bigger. Some analysts point out that US companies

that do business in Mexico make payments to a Mexican company, potentially that is secretly controlled or affiliated with the cartel. They could face penalties. There's also migrants. Migrants could also potentially face material support charges because migrants often pay smugglers

to get through Mexico or across the border, smugglers who in many cases have ties to the cartels. And that in turn could provide grounds for the US government to keep those migrants out of the US. So here's the question I've got. Could a terrorist designation, terrorism designation pave the way for potential US military action against these cartels? Certainly heard about that concern. What I would say in response is that the president

already has the authority to conduct military action. This designation wouldn't change that. It could, and I have to underline there, could provide political cover of a sorts. But look, unilateral military action on Mexican soil would be a huge step in something that Mexico has made quite clear that it would oppose. Now you mentioned that the US has previously considered designating cartels as terrorist groups, but ultimately decided not to.

Tell us why that is and what has changed. So I talked about that with Jason Blazakis. He used to lead the State Department office that makes these designations. And he said that arguably the most significant reason it hasn't been done in the past is the negative impact that it would have on US-Mexico relations. It could alienate Mexico, of course the US needs to work with Mexico on migration, cartels trade. As for what has changed, the most obvious thing is

Trump is back in office and he of course promised a swift and decisive action on the border, on migration, on drugs. There's clearly a political messaging angle to Trump's talk of designating cartels. This is a show of resolve. But this could also be a means to pressure Mexico to coordinate more with the U.S. on the cartel question, but also on those other thorny issues as well. That is NPR's Ryan Lucas. Thank you. Thank you. Before we wrap up, a reminder, you can find more coverage of the incoming Trump administration

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