Trump's Trials - What happens when the federal government owns part of a company?

Episode Date: August 28, 2025

President Trump says taking a 10% stake in Intel will be good for the company and the country. NPR's Scott Detrow talks with Michael Strain of the American Enterprise Insitiute, who disagrees.Support NPR and hear every episode of Trump's Terms sponsor-free with NPR+. Sign up at plus.npr.org.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

You're listening to Trump's Terms from NPR. I'm Scott Debtrow. We're going to be doing all sorts of things. Nobody ever thought was even possible. President Trump has brought back string to the White House. We can't just ignore the president's desires. This will be an entirely different country in a short period of time. Every episode of Trump's terms, we bring you NPR's latest coverage of the 47th president.

With a focus on actions and policies he is pursuing on his own terms and in the process, taking the presidency into uncharted territory. Today's story starts right after this. Sources and methods, the crown jewels of the intelligence community, shorthand for how do we know what's real, who told us? If you have those answers, you're on the inside, and NPR wants to bring you there, from the Pentagon to the State Department to spy agencies, listen to understand what's really happening and what it means for you.

Sources and Methods, the new National Security podcast from NPR. There's a lot of news happening. You want to understand it better, but let's be honest, you don't want it to be your entire life either. Well, that's sort of like our show, here and now anytime. Every weekday on our podcast, we talk to people all over the country about everything from political analysis to climate resilience, video games. We even talk about dumpster diving on this show. Check out Here and Now Anytime, a daily podcast from NPR and WBUR. What happens when the federal government owns part of a company?

That is one of many questions about federal policy rights. now as the Trump administration aggressively pushes for stakes and oversight of major private companies. This week, the White House announced it was taking a 10% stake in the struggling technology giant Intel. Commerce Secretary Howard Lucknick says the administration is considering similar moves with other companies tied to the defense industry as well. We called up Michael Strain to walk us through what this could lead to. He is the director of economic policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative-leading think tank. Welcome to the show.

Thanks so much for having me on. What was your first response to this Intel deal when you heard about it? Well, my first response was surprise and concern. This is an unprecedented action by the U.S. government outside of a crisis situation. And even if you think that Intel needs more support from the government, taking an ownership stake is really, just about the most aggressive way the government could provide that support. This is an administration, this is a president that is very comfortable leaning on companies, people, organizations to do what he wants.

What are your concerns in terms of two or three or four steps to line about how it could play out in real life? What are your worries? What are you thinking about? Well, I think this is bad for Intel. Intel is going to have to do a whole lot of things in order to, you know, maintain its competitiveness. And some of those things are going to be politically unpopular,

like closing factories, laying off workers. You know, now that the government owns 10% of intel, the government may pressure Intel not to do politically unpopular things. Like, hey, we have to close a plant in this swing state for a financial reason, but now we might not do that because we're being told not to. Yeah, exactly. And so that's going to be bad for Intel. I think this is going to be bad for customers in the chip market in general.

You know, if you're a business and you're taking government contracts, are you going to feel like you have to buy from Intel, even if buying from Intel doesn't make the most business sense for you? You said earlier outside of a crisis. I mean, this has happened before in different ways. I mean, I think the most prominent example is the 2008 financial crisis shortly after that. the Obama administration took a major short-term stake in U.S. auto makers. The auto industry, especially, you could argue, that worked out pretty well for the companies,

for the markets. How different to you is this? Well, I think it's quite different. You know, those were policies that were enacted during a crisis, and those were policies that were designed to be temporary. We are not in a crisis right now, and the equity stake in Intel and, the possibility of future equity stakes are not designed to be temporary. If you think that Intel needs more taxpayer support,

then you could extend loans under favorable terms to Intel. You could do greater subsidies to the semiconductor sector more broadly. Can I ask you something on that point, though? I want to read you a quote from White House Economics Advisor Kevin Hassel. who said in the past the federal government has been giving away money. Lickety split to companies and the taxpayers have received nothing in return. And Senator Bernie Sanders, who I imagine is not one of your favorite members of Congress on policy, but the point is he's not normally a Trump ally. He's made a similar point. Is there an argument there that something like this is better

than just a tax break or a subsidy or a bailout? No, I don't think so. You know, I think that Mr. Hasid's quote, you know, really does reflect just a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the government in these situations. You know, the government is not one business out in the market competing with other businesses. The job of the government is to advance the prosperity and security of the American people. And that happens when American businesses are doing as well as they can to generate that prosperity. You know, secondly, this is going to be bad for the taxpayer. This is going to cost money.

The U.S. government has already given Intel billions of dollars of taxpayer money that could be used to fund hospitals or to reduce the budget deficit or that could just be left in the pockets of the people who earned the money. This relationship is going to mean that more good taxpayer dollars will be, chasing bad investments in Intel. So even if you agree with Mr. Hassett's frame, which I do not, I think this is still going to be a bad deal for the taxpayer. I'm curious, Michael, if it feels kind of lonely at the American Enterprise Institute right now. I mean, this is a Republican president. You have have many conservative voices going along with this and either not saying anything

or agreeing or protesting in a very mild way. What do you make at this moment as a conservative? You know, I think it's a difficult moment. I think it's incumbent on people in Washington who genuinely believe in traditional conservative commitments about the importance of free markets, the importance of limited government, the importance of the rule of law. It's important for those people to speak out. And I agree with your characterization that not a lot of that is happening. And that is troubling. I think it makes it all the more important for people who are willing to speak out to do so. Michael Strang, Director of Economic Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute, thank you for talking to us about it. Thanks so much for having me on. Before we wrap up a reminder, you can find more coverage of the Trump administration on the NPR Politics Podcast, where you can hear NPR's political reporters break down the day's

biggest political news with new episodes every weekday afternoon. And thanks, as always, to our NPR Plus supporters who hear every episode of the show without sponsor messages. You can learn more at plus.npr.org. I'm Scott Detrow. Thanks for listening to Trump's terms from NPR. How would you describe the discourse around sexiness online? words or less. I would say polarized, ideological,

and unruited from reality. I just thought corny, not horny. Love that. I'm Brittany Luce. If you're surprised to hear the words sexy and horny in the same sentence as NPR, you'll be shocked to hear what else I'm

talking about. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast today. These days, there's so much news. It can be hard to keep up with what it all means for you, your family, and your Community. The Consider This Podcast from NPR features our award-winning journalism. Six days a week, we bring you a deep dive on a news story and provide the context and analysis that helps you make sense of the news. We get behind the headlines. We get to the truth. Listen to the Consider This podcast from NPR.